The rotation is going to be horrible, so let's talk some more about it...
...that way if it's passable, we feel like we win!
In 2008, the Orioles gave up 869 runs, second-worst in the American League (Texas allowed an unholy 967 guys to cross home plate). The team's ERA was 5.15, also second-worst in the league.
Here's how Orioles pitching has done during The Losing Years:
- 1998: 4.73, 7th
- 1999: 4.77, 4th
- 2000: 5.37, 12th
- 2001: 4.67, 10th
- 2002: 4.46, 7th
- 2003: 4.76, 10th
- 2004: 4.70, 7th
- 2005: 4.56, 10th
- 2006: 5.35, 13th
- 2007: 5.17, 13th
- 2008: 5.15, 13th
The proof is pretty much in the pudding: This franchise's recent pitching history certainly stinks, but the last three seasons it has been worse than ever. The Leo Mazzone and Rick Kranitz teams have bottomed out, with only some pretty awful performances from the '08 Rangers, '07 Devil Rays and '06 Royals saving their bacon to any degree.
Now, there's something to be said for talent provided these coaches, yes, and that's the biggest thing. No one was getting good results out of these guys. But it's not like those Ray Miller teams were lighting it up out there; the fact that the '99 team finished fourth is a miracle and a reflection of the league at the time, all 'roided up and crazy. You look back on those guys (outside of Mussina, who had an excellent season) and there's not a lot more talent than what's been handed these last three squads.
It won't be fixed any time soon. The days of Matusz, Tillman and Arrieta (and maybe Bergesen and Erbe, etc.) are still pretty far off. This season...
Let's get right down to it. We have talked and talked and talked about the rotation, but it is my firm belief that right now, if only about the pitching staff, every Orioles fan needs to take a good sober think on the following statement: This will be the worst pitching staff yet. It will be abysmal. It will hurt to watch them.
Obviously strange things happen, but it is very rare indeed that anything as strange as Guthrie, Uehara, Simon, Hendrickson and Eaton being successful happens. The Hardball Times projected the Orioles to have the worst staff in the league by far this season, and this was pre-Eaton and pre-Uehara and even pre-Hendo, and freaking Alfredo Simon has come out of nowhere to win a job the team couldn't hand to Hayden Penn with a clear conscience.
Baseball Prospectus VORP projections for the five guys:
- Jeremy Guthrie is at 13.9. That's fine and all, but it would represent a massive tailing off in quality. Guts has been at 39.4 and 41.9 the last two years. Every projection system is going to show him unable to sustain what he's done in 2007-08 because what he's done isn't easily explained. Frankly I think he'll outdo the PECOTA projection once again. He's better than it looks like he is.
- Koji Uehara is at 15.4, which is pretty good for what we're paying him. I am personally not much of a believer in Koji but love the signing for a great number of reasons. He's cheap, he gets our foot in the Japanese market's door, and frankly he'll be exciting to watch unless he really stinks because he's something different than the retreads, journeymen, has-beens and never-will-bes we've been carting out there. Speaking of...
- Mark Hendrickson is at 0.1. Zero-point-one.
- Adam Eaton is at -6.4. Negative six-point-four. The last time Eaton got any substantial major league time with the Phillies in 2007, he put up a sterling -10.8 VORP. Negative ten-point-eight. Last year with Philly he brought that up to a -3.1.
- Alfredo Simon's projected VORP is -10.1. Negative ten-point-one. Listen, I'm rootin' for the dude, I like his story this spring, I'm happy the O's rewarded good work instead of old hopes, buuuut...Simon would have to pull a minor miracle to not get shredded as a major league starter.
More about Alfredo. Here are his VORP numbers since 2006:
| Year | Team | Level | IP | VORP |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2006 | San Jose | A | 36.1 | -8.3 |
| 2006 | Fresno | AAA | 52.2 | -3.1 |
| 2007 | Oklahoma | AAA | 119 | -23.8 |
| 2008 | Monterrey | Mexico | 81 | -1.3 |
| 2008 | Norfolk | AAA | 4.2 | -2.5 |
| 2008 | Baltimore | MLB | 13 | -1.4 |
In layman's terms, he has sucked, no matter where the ball was being played. A-ball, AAA ball in the PCL, MLB, Mexico.
In some ways discussing the rotation like this reminds me of Sarah Jessica Parker as Dolores Fuller in Ed Wood, when at the end of one of Ed's bizarre wrap parties, with everyone hooting and hollering and having a great time, she suddenly bursts out with, "You people are insane! You're wasting your lives making s***! Nobody cares! These movies...ARE TERRIBLE!"
See, I don't think Ed and the gang were wasting their time, and I don't think we're wasting our time talking about this crummy predicament. But it's undeniable that his movies and this rotation are crap and that outside of us weirdos, nobody cares. Frankly, it's a little peculiar that we're as invested as we are in guys like Alfredo Simon and Adam Eaton. Sad, even. But that's the hand we were dealt. Ed Wood wanted to make movies. I want to root for the Orioles. He had no talent. I have no choice.
It also pains me to beg of everyone to not just "stay realistic," but to actually expect the worst pitching staff we've seen to date during these lousy years.
Think about how we all get by mid-July. I'm not saying we won't still drop so many game thread F-bombs that someone really ought to do something about it, but maybe the harsh impact this team will have on your mental well-being will be lessened.
Or completely ignore my advice, get psyched for Kojimania, and be like the many GMs that have been tricked by Adam Eaton in the past.
There's also this lingering feeling I have that this rotation did not HAVE to be as bad as it's going to be. There were things that could have been done. There were ways to make it less of an imminent disaster. There's really no way this rotation isn't the worst in baseball. It was going to be bad either way, but this is going to be a new level of garbage.
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34 comments
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Comments
VORP
If you’re looking at their VORP projections, then you have to also look at their inning projections for these guys:
Guthrie:170 IP
Uehara: 135 IP
Hendrickson: 110 IP
Eaton: 110 IP
Simon: 110 IP
I don’t get how they get that VORP from Uehara when he essentially is projected to have only a slightly better ERA as Guthrie with 35 fewer innings.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Apr 1, 2009 8:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm starting to come around on your opinion of Danny
I was happy as all get out when they got rid of him, but now I’m wondering what’s the point of getting rid of him if you’re going to replace him with garbage? I looked him up on BP and he’s projected to throw 126 innings (which seems a little low) with a VORP of 9.6.
Do you really think it won’t be any time soon before we see the minor league pitchers? What is your opinion of soon? I think we could see a the lower end pitching prospects (Bergesen, Hernandez) by the end of this year, and maybe Matusz/Arrieta next year.
by Stacey on Apr 1, 2009 9:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Bergesen could be up relatively early if/when/as soon as Simon/Hendo/Eaton suck so hard they can’t take it any longer, but Bergesen doesn’t exactly light my pants on fire. I just can’t fall too hard for a guy with that K/9. Still I’d rather see him than ANY OF THEM.
By “soon” I mostly just mean “this year.”
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Apr 1, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patton
What’s his deal? I know they are trying to bring him back slowly, but haven’t heard at all what he’s up to.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Apr 1, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't heard much about him lately
I think he’s healthy so as soon as he proves he’s 100% back and ready to go they could bring him up. I’d imagine we might see him this year.
by Stacey on Apr 1, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I admit that I haven’t paid much attention this spring, mostly due to work, but I wonder if (and this is no small if) Albers or Penn pitch well from the bullpen, if there’s any chance of them getting a rotation shot when Eaton and Hendrickson look like shit.
I guess that probably wouldn’t help much, but at least we could still pretend it’s young crap with potential.
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
by BrianS on Apr 1, 2009 9:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
silver lining
I admit i was the last known supporter of Ponson and DCab, so i question my sanity. But after watching Burres and Olson and Daniel throw ball 1, ball 2, ball 3 etc this can’t be as bad.. But i don’t get Hendrickson as starter just because he’s a lefty. Isn’t it better to have lefties in the pen? Obviously Walker as the matchup guy is really scary, but Hendrickson could be useful coming in in the 2nd or 3rd inning against a lefty stacked lineup. Besides, you should always have a really tall guy as your long man. And Rich Hill could be up in a few weeks. Simon might shock us all. That leaves only Eaton to be replaced by Patton, Bergeson, Hernandez, or Erbe. Can you say wild card???
by albaman on Apr 1, 2009 9:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I guess I’m more concerned about this headline: In Md., an uneasy start to crabbing season in today’s Sun rather than the Orioles pitching staff. I’ve written this staff of many weeks back.
Crabs were $200+ a bushel last year and the price barely dropped into the season because the sellers knew they could continue that price. The state of the Chesapeake has me a bit po’d. The state has to listen to the biologists and just shut down large portions to allow some recovery. I don’t know what can be done about the population growth and increasing runoff from farms and waste.
Oh yeah, the O’s. It will be interesting to see how the O’s try to entice fans to the stadium to watch this mess. Personally, I only go to games where I think I have a shot to see a decent pitching performance. I’m tired of watching crap pitching staffs, and since that’s what MacPhail has ordered up this year, I’m not inclined to buy much.
by drj on Apr 1, 2009 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you did NOT just say you missed Danny Boy.
No way.
It's 4 in the morning. Too much to drink. All the girls look hot. So, the Nationals are Jennifer Lopez to me. —Julian Tavarez
by zknower on Apr 1, 2009 10:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if you could choose, which rotation would you pick?
1 Lannan
2 Olsen
3 Danny
4 Shairon Martis
5 Jordan Zimmermann
1 Guts
2 Koji
3 Eaton?
4 Simon?
5 Hendrickson?
god help me, I think I’d go with the Nats (though if you include minor league arms, of course the O’s win).
by Dingbat Charlie on Apr 1, 2009 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i don’t/won’t miss cabrera.. and our rotation will still manage to be better than the nats.
What up?
by snakethejake on Apr 1, 2009 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Will we be 14th in the AL?
I think this is finally the year that we finish in last even with the Rangers pitching in their god awful stadium. Our rotation is going to be really awful. It’s pretty amazing that Adam Eaton, Alfredo Simon and Mark Hendrickson are in the Opening Day rotation. How did it come to this?
The good thing is that during the year Rich Hill, David Hernandez, Brad Bergeson and maybe even Chris Tillman will all start for us. And that’ll be nice.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Apr 1, 2009 12:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What a year to be a
Chesapeake-area baseball fan. If I so desire, I can see, in person, on back-to-back days in many cases, not only 2 of the worst teams in baseball, but very likely THE 2 worst teams in baseball. For fans of trainwrecks, nirvana.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Apr 1, 2009 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't miss Danny
Danny Cabs was going to make $3M+ in arbitration, to lead the league in walks and HBP again. I’d rather have Eaton throwing batting practice for $400k, at least give the defense a chance to make outs. And I’d rather have Penn throwing BP than Eaton. Isn’ t that the idea, pitch to contact? : /
It is going to be historically terrible. We’ll serve up 900 runs this year. We could outhit the entire division and still place last.
Oh, and the Gnats, way worse. Not only do they have to put DC on the mound, they have to put him in the batters box too…and Dunn in the field. That’s gong to be the real comedy show
AndHedges: soo... when do I get to throw a couple of pitches and complain about "tightness?"
by CoachOfEarl on Apr 2, 2009 12:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Things that could have been done
There were things that could have been done.
Please name three that don’t involve rushing minor leaguers.
by Ampontan on Apr 2, 2009 1:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
1. Keeping Daniel Cabrera, who doesn’t get hurt and $3 million is really cheap for a pretty bad pitcher that gives you innings. You can always get rid of him easily later when you’re comfortable with the staff. Cabrera is a lot better than either Eaton or Hendrickson and that’s why he costs more money to have on the team. Cabrera was pretty bad the last two years (ERA+ marks of 83 and 86), but that beats Eaton (73 and 75 with about 110 less innings thrown) or Hendrickson (88 and 78 with about 130 less innings thrown). As much as I loathed watching Cabrera pitch, I honestly believe letting him go is the single-biggest difference this team will have to deal with. It wasn’t the wrong call because 2009 is a waste year, but being without a guy that throws 180-200 innings will hurt in the immediate. It’s not about the immediate. I didn’t say the immediate was the main issue with the team. I said only that the immediate will be horrible and that they could have avoided that to some degree, and a cheap arb settlement with Cabrera would have been an easy way to do that.
2. Signing one of the many cheap veterans out there to a one-year deal, someone who isn’t quite as bad as Hendo or Eaton. There were plenty of them available. Hendrickson and Eaton are known detriments. I’m not saying it’s as easy as, “You work for us now!” I know it’s not. But they didn’t try to pick up anyone past Eaton and Hendo. It is understandable if they all wanted multi-year deals, but a lot of guys would have been happy to have a job and a chance to prove themselves, and I’m talking about better pitchers than these dudes. What would we have hurt making an actual offer to Randy Wolf, Tim Redding, or Odalis Perez (who took a minor league deal with Washington)? Wolf signed for $5 mil (probably steeper than they wanted to go), Redding for $2.25. We’re paying Hendrickson $1.5 million.
Projected VORPs:
Cabrera 12.8
Wolf 16.1
Redding 2.2
Perez is unlisted, but his weighted mean VORP in his 2009 forecast is 10.8
Outside of Redding we’re talking about far better pitchers than the two they got.
3. I really don’t have a third, and I’m not pretending to be all-knowing or anything. So for #3 I will offer “Sidney Ponson.” I also know they were hoping that someone like Penn or Pauley would earn a spot and neither did. But when you go into spring with 37 pitchers in camp and you come out of it with a rotation that is 60% made up of Adam Eaton, Mark Hendrickson and Alfredo Simon, someone screwed the pooch and that’s undeniable. You can argue that Penn and/or Pauley are chief pooch screwers and surely they didn’t help matters with their hideous efforts this spring, but it’s deeper than that. Neither were exactly shoo-in candidates to be any good at all and when you wind up inking Adam Eaton during spring training, some mistakes have been made along the way. It also sort of bothers me that another 20% of the rotation is a 33-year old Japanese pitcher that hasn’t started consistently over the last two years.
The good thing is that with Bergesen having a nice spring, Hernandez being close to as ready as he’s gonna get, and something else that just completely left my train of thought after I went to pee, there are ready fill-in guys on hand for when someone tanks horrible. I don’t think this is a HUGE DEAL. I was just talkin’ baseball, yo.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Apr 2, 2009 4:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was time…for Danny…to go…
Ponson is really not an improvement over these people, and in any event does not have the kind of character AM would be interested in.
That goes for Odalis Perez as well. This is the Odalis Perez who bought seats for underprivileged kids when he started a game. He stopped when he was demoted to the bullpen. When he was put back in the rotation, he refused to start up again, saying the Dodgers disrespected him.
I really don’t think AM and DT are going to put people like him or recovering alcoholics on the team unless they’re much more desperate.
I don’t recall very many pitchers who wanted to do one year deals at all, or pitch in the AL East, or be treated as cannon fodder until someone else was ready. Looper was mentioned by some, but the first two don’t apply to him.
The rotation is unlikely to look like this on June 1, if not sooner, so I really don’t see what the big deal is here.
by Ampontan on Apr 2, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ponson is really not an improvement over these people
I…wasn’t serious.
I really don’t see what the big deal is here.
I…just said it wasn’t a big deal.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Apr 2, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Signing one of the many cheap veterans out there to a one-year deal, someone who isn’t quite as bad as Hendo or Eaton.
Paul Byrd is still available.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
by birdman on Apr 2, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as is odaliz perez, no?
believe wash cut him loose for not reporting to camp.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Apr 2, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot about him. I imagine he’s blackballed after the BS he pulled on the Nats.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
by birdman on Apr 2, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patton
Doesn’t Patton already have some better than average experience MLB experience on his resume? (12.2 innings…)
He seems to me like a sleeper to be back in the rotation early if he really is 100%. I seem to remember when he came over it looked like he was all but a shoo-in as the 4th or 5th starter before getting hurt.
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Apr 2, 2009 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There has to be
some good reason that Patton wasn’t in camp though. I am guessing it was health related, because the guy has the ability. Not sure that his arm is ready for the rigors of starting in the bigs yet…
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
by sickuvitall on Apr 2, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
precautionary measures
See how he’s doing, see where he’s at. They knew he wasn’t starting the season with the team.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Apr 3, 2009 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what wave of arms
he will be a part of…as I estimate there could be at least 3 definitive makeovers to the rotation this year.
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
by sickuvitall on Apr 3, 2009 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gotta figure Bergesen's up first
Great spring, it’s not like they’d be messing with a guy that has some big ceiling. But after that it’s anyone’s guess.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by SC on Apr 3, 2009 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could see
Bergesen as a future back-end guy, simply due to his consistency and ability to throw strikes. Of course, I could also see him throwing batting practice to little leaguers…that’s how fine the line is that Bergesen must walk.
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
by sickuvitall on Apr 3, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it'll be interesting...
obviously, hill will be stashed in rehab as long as possible, but i’d say hill enters the rotation as soon as he is deemed healthy, bergesen gets next call, patton will have to make a statement. remember: he’s starting at bowie. i don’t think he’s going to get “penned” down there, but i think he gets a few starts down there to get comfortable and show he’s healthy, then a few starts up at norfolk. maybe in the bigs by memorial day?
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Apr 3, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds reasonable
long as the shoulder doesn’t flame up. I heard somewhere that Tony Butler is healthy again, should start in Frederick or maybe Delmarva if he isn’t convincing…decent upside to him though.
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
by sickuvitall on Apr 4, 2009 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Delmarva...
is supposedly going to get Hoes. I can’t wait to yell “Let’s Go Hoes!”
"Any guitar solos you hear on the record where it sounds like one note, sounds like Meg White playing guitar -- that's me. Any real guitar solo where a guitar comes in and you go, 'F--k, that sounds awesome!' -- that's not me." - Josh Freese
by duck on Apr 4, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If ya like what ya lookin at...
lemme hear ya say, pimpin ain’t easy!
You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever.
by sluggo 2.0 on Apr 6, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeesh...
i even forgot about butler. also curious how zagone pitches against more avanced competition and if bascom can get it together.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Apr 5, 2009 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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