Rangers 6, Orioles 5: You're no good, you're no good, you're no good, Georgie you're no good (at closing)
by Scott Christ on Apr 24, 2009 10:16 PM EDT
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PrintYou couldn't have asked for a whole lot more out of the O's hitters tonight.
OK, you could have. They blew some opportunities.
But the sticking point is this: George Sherrill is not a closing pitcher and they need to find one, fast. Sherrill gave up a two-run bomb to Michael Young in the top of the ninth inning which put the Rangers up 5-4, the score they would win by when the O's failed to get anybody on or in in the bottom of the inning.
The Birds had a chance to blow the game wide open up 4-1 in the middle innings, with the bases loaded and one out. Instead, Ty Wigginton and Luke Scott hacked away and Headhuntin' Vicente Padilla and the Rangers got out of the mess. They chipped away, chipped away, and eventually they broke through with the big blast that won the game.
Sherrill would be an excellent LOOGy. He hasn't been an effective closer. He started OK last year but was struggling by the break, and after the break he collapsed. He's stunk this year. There's not much more to it than that. They need to figure out if Chris Ray can take the role back. What's it going to hurt putting him into the cooker? You find out who can do the job. Sherrill clearly cannot.
Koji was really good again. He was straight-up dealin' out there. But after he came out, it just came apart. The Rangers bullpen did a great job and the lineup tanked out. It happens.
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sherrill sucks. pie sucks. it’s clear that the front office doesn’t give a flying f*ck about winning today’s game (or yesterday’s or tomorrow’s). mcphail’s smarter than me, at least about baseball, so i’m just going to start accepting that and wait until they tell me they’re trying to win. hopefully it happens soon.
norfolk today – tillman 6 shutout innings, 6 k’s, 1 BB. reimold hit another home run. that’s fun at least.
He went six strong innings tonight
Which is impressive for a guy who is constantly knocked for a lack of control/durability. Immediately following Chris’ show, Liz came in and promptly gave up two runs over one inning.
My best game plan is to sit on the bench and call out specific instructions like 'C'mon Boog,' 'Get ahold of one, Frank,' or 'Let's go, Brooks.' -Earl Weaver
Completely irrelevant
But anyone notice Hernandez’s season so far in Norfolk? 14 2/3 innings, 3.02 ERA and 23 friggin K’s? Better than 1.5 K’s per inning?!?!
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Apr 25, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll say this, though
Michael Young is a cyborg. He has no more of a soul than Pie has a reason for being in our roster.
I'm drunk.
I felt I should preface this comment with that. But I think JJ should be closing. That’s all I have to say. I know he gave up a run tonight and all that blah blah blah, but he has the best closer stuff of anybody in that pathetic bullpen right now. Sherrill is bad, but if he becomes the LOOGy then I might have to see Jamie Walker pitch in less meaningful situations which would be good because he’s terrible. That’s all I have to say. I will be hungover tomorrow. Fuck you Padilla!
I'm a Ray guy
But really it’s ABBS (Anybody But Sherrill). Not to be confused with Abbas, the last name of Mahmoud Abbas of the PNA, among others.
or...
when you have a plethora of groups impersonating a certain swedish pop group from the 70s.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Apr 25, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
ha.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Apr 25, 2009 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Chris Ray
Clearly, Ray should go back to closing. And the hitting wasn’t that good, once they got the lead, they stopped being patient and waited for the bullpen to finish them off (which was never going to happen). The same thing happened in the Boston… there was no way that they couldn’t finish the game the way the started. I mean, come on, they even brought Eddie Guardado in… that should be an automatic dinger.
Also, nice patience by Wigginton… runner on third, one out… and bases loaded, one out… all they needed was one half-decent swing in either of those situations to win. Unfortunately, I guess that’s too much to ask from the three hundred pounder… put him on the biggest loser
The hitting...
in that situation was ATROCIOUS. Dude’s given up a walk, a single, a HR, is having trouble finding the plate, bases are juiced… and two guys in a row go up there hacking at the first pitch they see???
This is my issue with Crowley – the whole “we want them to be aggressive” thing is awesome when you’re trying to build some momentum. Once you’ve got a guy on the ropes, that approach has got to change. Make him throw it over the plate. Make him prove he can find the zone at all. There’s nothing wrong with letting a cooked starter walk in a run before they yank him off the mound.
That sh*t irks me to no end. Why are you willing to try & work the count with a guy who’s fresh & pitching well… but when you get one that’s really, really struggling you suddenly feel the need to swing at the first decent thing you see? I’d fine their asses, honestly. That would not fly with me.
From the Land of Pleasant Living...
Is He any Better
If I recall Chris Ray has a bad tendency to throw the ball right down the middle of the plate or meatball pitches as I recall calling them in 2007…. GS is not a closer for sure, and once AGAIN I will state the blatent obvious, BRING UP THE YOUNG GUNS NOW McPhooey, now!!!! Look I love the Birds, I know each and everyone of us on here want the samething and thats another WS trophy sitting in the Yards and a banner flying high from atop the flag pole, but until they put BOTH solid hitting and steady pitching TOGETHER then this crapola is gonna continue, ‘nuff said y’all!
Don't bring up the young guns now
I’ll say it again – look at the Tampa model.
EVER MEMBER OF THEIR ROTATION spent at least parts of 4 seasons in the minors.
The hole took 11 years to dig. We won’t get out in 18 months.
You bring up the pitchers as they show they are ready. Jake Arietta has no more business in the bigs right now than I do. Same for Brian Matusz.
As they are ready, bring them up. Not until.
Matt Wieters took batting practice this morning. There were no survivors.
well, he might have a LITTLE more business than you
I’m going to block out everything from last night’s game except Koji walking off the mound and waving his hat while the crowd goes crazy for him.
I’m smart, not a dummy. ~Adam Jones
He really looked like
proud. and happy.
The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST
by the fix is in on Apr 25, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
This is timely
Three weeks into the season, Orioles manager Dave Trembley said he has a clear blueprint for how he will use his bullpen.
As long as none of the three are overworked, Chris Ray will pitch the seventh inning, Jim Johnson will pitch the eighth and George Sherrill will close.
Trembley’s plan in place for O’s bullpen
Get used to the excitement
I still like George Sherrill closing right now
This season is a work in progress.. Ray needs to become lights out, and slowly experience stressful game situations. I still don’t have a lot of confidence in him closing a 3-2 9th inning game vs. the Red Sox, for example. If he’s our closer of the future, I’d rather him become dominant again in the late innings and build up his confidence. Then by late this year, let him close.
After the switch, then I think they will move Sherrill over to Ray’s position.
So Ray needs to become “lights out” but we should put George Sherrill who is anything but lights out into the highest leverage situations possible? Ray was never “lights out” or dominant and he never will be. He’s simply better at the job in question than Sherrill, who is terrible.
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Apr 25, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
We do not have
a REAL closer on the roster. Sherrill I won’t even mention. Ray lacks confidence and a hard-biting splitter. This is something we are going to have to address either through a trade/signing or the system.
Honestly I could see David Hernandez as a closer. I understand that he is starting at the current moment, but having followed the last 3 years of his career I can tell you he won’t be starting in the bigs. He doesn’t have enough pitches and often struggles to manage his pitch count…leading to a lot of 4 and 5 inning starts. Just an idea.
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
P.S.-
Felix Pie is NEVER going to be good. I know the season is young and the sample size is small, but shit, this guy is garbage. There is an obvious reason we got him for nothing, and I don’t want to hear about the Cubs depth blah blah blah.
Bring up Nolan Reimold NOW! He is ready. I am not interested in talk of how he has only been healthy/productive for a year-and-a-half. He is ready. I am also not interested in talk of how his defense is supposedly suspect, cause it can’t get much worse than what is in LF already. Nolan is ready!
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
by sickuvitall on Apr 25, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Felix Pie is NEVER going to be good.
I’m sick of defending the guy at this point, but what makes you think that? He has much better tools and nearly as good of a minor league track record as Reimold once you account for age/level of competition.
Felix appears to be trying very hard, and while the results aren’t there in the headline numbers, some of the underlying numbers are decently encouraging.
-He’s walking more than he ever has.
-He’s still striking out too much, but he’s striking out less than he did last year with the Cubs.
-He’s hitting more line drives than he ever has.
He’s been very unlucky so far with a .200 BABIP, which is insanely low given his 23.3% line drive percentage. It’s impossible to have a lower BABIP than LD% over a full season, and on average, BABIP is 120 points higher than LD%.
With a normal BABIP, Felix would be batting .270 right now. If he keeps doing what he’s doing, he’s going to leg out some infield hits (he has zero so far), and those line drives are going to find holes.
I like Reimold a lot too, and ideally he would be in the Majors right now and Felix would be in AAA. But given their respective options situations, this is the way it has to be if the Orioles want to keep both talents.
Give Felix a chance and stop riding his ass every freaking day. I seriously do not get why people are willing to be so patient with some players and not others.
by dkdc on Apr 25, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He’s not a LF. He’s a CF. His minor league record doesn’t really suggest his bat can handle LF. That said, I’m all for giving him a chance in LF. If he doesn’t turn it around by June or July, start Reimold in LF.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
His bat plays in LF
If his glove comes around and he’s a plus fielding LF. It’s going to be tough given that he needs to improve all aspects of his game, but there’s a chance it will all come together.
If he becomes a Carl Crawford-level defender he can play in LF. Until then…
"If they cut my bald head open, they will find one big boxing glove. That's all I am. I live it." -- Marvin Hagler
by Scott Christ on Apr 25, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty much
Assuming we are talking about the 2004-2007 Carl Crawford and not the much lesser Carl Crawford we’ve seen since then.
If he can become even 80% of the old Carl Crawford with both the bat and the glove (750 OPS and +5 in the field), he’s a league average player, which is pretty valuable for a $400K salary.
For what it's worth
I asked Rob Neyer if he thought Pie’s bat could play in LF in one of his chats. He said no.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
If he can become even 80% of the old Carl Crawford with both the bat and the glove (750 OPS and +5 in the field), he’s a league average player, which is pretty valuable for a $400K salary.
That’s fine, but his value would be boosted by playing CF. At best, he’s a average LF under your scenario. He could be a plus CF if his “tools” come together. Unfortunately, for Pie, we have G.I. Jones though. I much rather play Scott in LF, let him boost his trade value, and then trade him at the deadline rather than trying to develop someone who could be an average LF at best. Once trade Scott is traded, then plug in Reimold full-time in LF.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
I am glad that
Felix has much better tools than Nolan…that’s fine. But please explain to me why this great athlete was given up for peanuts?! We are wasting time that could be given to someone who has actually earned a spot. Felix Pie is 1/3 the hitter that Nolan Reimold is. Keeping Reimold down is exposing him to the possibilities of injury which would halt his progression, not to mention he isn’t getting any younger.
I think I would feel differently if we didn’t have Adam Jones and CF would be an option. But that isn’t the way it is. I suppose I will settle down and give Felix another month or two, but damn he is hard to deal with.
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
because...
he’s out of options and the cubs are in win now mode. let’s also remember that they have an assload of money sunk into their outfield.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Apr 25, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
George doesn't suck
He’s just miscast as closer. he should be a lefty specialist, like he was with Seattle. His curve wipes out lefties (right Chris Davis?) but he’s got no out pitch vs righties, so he has to try to sneak his 88 mph heater on the corners and pray.
it’s still early but 2009 OPS tells the story:
OPS vs righties: 1.264
OPS vs lefties: .258
yeah, that’s a big difference.
by Dingbat Charlie on Apr 25, 2009 11:20 AM EDT reply actions
Unfortunately
I think we’re going to have to watch Geroge blow a few more before Trembley makes a move. Some of his post-game comments indicate that he’s nowhere close to making a move right now.
Just giving up runs and baserunners isn’t going to be enough for Trembley.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Apr 25, 2009 11:34 AM EDT reply actions
I feel like
Trembley has a very difficult time second-guessing himself. Nobody likes to be wrong, but at least you could admit when it happens Diamond.
Mood about O's rotation: Depressed : (
by sickuvitall on Apr 25, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
George Sherril is not good at baseball
He’s a decent left-handed specialist (but even then gives up the long ball), but cannot pitch to right-handers and expect to get them out.
I would like to see the Orioles trade him to a decent team that could use a specialist like him and get him out of regular relief duty for the Orioles. He simply isn’t good enough.
DCabs allows three in first
Well, we got that.
The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST
Does Trembley have a plan
I’m wondering if he has the coconuts to pull Big George out of the closers role, or will he let him blow another 10 or 15 games before it’s even obvious to a blind man? Hey can we ask Earl to come out of retirement and put some ummmph back in the Birds dugout, just a crazy thought here……Boy I sure miss that fire in the dugout, don’t the rest of you I know there is some on here thats old enough to remember Earl the Pearl Weaver, right?? Anyways like the song says “Those were the days!!”
Are you refugee from OH or something?
Because this reads like something some people over there would write…
"You have to discipline yourself so you don't come out with something just to say you made a trade. You have to make sure you come out better than you were before." - Andy MacPhail, 7/31/08
That's not what made Earl Weaver great
Earl Weaver was great because more often than not his moves paid off. He weighed the data he had available before he made decision and took the course of action that was most likely pay off. That more than anything else sums up why he was a better manager than all than about 5 or 6 guys ever and a better manager than Dave Trembley will ever be.
The generally being an asshole prick and getting thrown out of games was merely an entertaining added bonus. Most managers who yell and get thrown out of games a lot do so because they have no idea what they’re doing and can’t think of anything else they can do. Lou Piniella comes to mind here.
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