Off Topic: LOST
by BrianS on May 7, 2009 11:47 AM EDT
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PrintI know there's a couple Lost-watchers here, so I hope no one minds an off-topic post about it.
I loved last night's episode, but does it seem to anyone else that they're setting up that everything is a big pointless loop. (While stuck in 1974 and bouncing through other past times the survivors seem to be, through their interactions with young Eloise, Ben, and Widmore, to be setting up the events that lead to their own plane crash, which leads to them traveling in time. And repeat).
Meanwhile, though, I'm entertained every week.
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I agree, last episode of the season next week, my take....
I theorize that in the season finale, when The Incident happens, that will leave everyone back where they are supposed to be and next year we get traditional flashback episodes, and we will see what happens with the Black Rock. Much story to be told there. Richard has something to do with Anubis. Lots of Egyptian mythology in the show, and they will play their role in the story somehow. All the hyroglyphics (sp), the 4 toed statue (Anubis). Richard certainly does have that Egyptian look about him – perhaps he is a Pharoah who’s tomb was raided and the island ‘revived’ him."
"We're so bad right now that for us back-to-back home runs means one today and another one tomorrow." ~ Earl Weaver
I’m sort of wondering if Jack will “succeed” in altering the past so the plane never crashes, and then season six is the survivors, who have never met, are somehow drawn to the island because of their destiny.
I sort of think that’s going to be the theme — you may (or may not!) be able to change time, but the characters can’t change their overall destiny which is to be on the island for some purpose.
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
I was once a Lost watcher
but I forgot to watch it one night about halfway into the season. Sometime after everybody was stuck in 1974…right after Sayid shot young Ben. Haven’t watched since, feel great about it. Used to subscribe to a theory I’d read that perhaps ALL the characters in some way or other are various mythological remnants (Richard Alpert – Ra, John Locke – Odin) but I figure this show will never resolve with something that cool.
If it does turn out to just go into some kind of reverse loop, they are able to stop Flight 815 from crashing…then that is just the worst kind of lazy writing.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on May 7, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions
Same thing happened to me, just last season
I missed an episode close to the end of last season, probably three or four episodes before the season finale, and haven’t watched it since. I dunno why, exactly – I just found out that i didn’t miss it. I was a huge Lost apologist right up until that point, too. Kinda weird when I think about it.
but I figure this show will never resolve with something that cool.
What do you mean by “resolved”? It’ll be resolved in the sense that the writers have ending in mind and a sequence of events that will lead to that ending (and like I said in my post, that ending better not be them landing safely in LA). It’ll be resolved in the sense that they’ll tie up most of the loose ends answered, however weakly.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
I think it will resolve
when the writers finish making it up as they go along. I do not believe for one instant, despite their protestations to the contrary, that there is or has been a plan that they have followed all along. Too many things were made to seem important, then to fall by the wayside with zero explanation or with unsatisfying resolution.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on May 7, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Too many things were made to seem important, then to fall by the wayside with zero explanation or with unsatisfying resolution.
There are also many things that have been made important from early on in the story and continue to be important as well. I certainly think there’s some “on the fly” changes to the story as you point out (Paulo and Nikki being the most obvious example). Part of that was a function of not having an end date. But I don’t buy into one extreme argument: they make up everything as they go. Nor do I buy into the other extreme, everything they do has been perfectly planned out from the early phases of the show and is now beng excuted as planned. It’s really a mixture of both. They have an overall plan but they change details here and there. Lost stands in direct contrast to JJ Abram’s other hit show, Alias. Now that was clearly a case of them clearly making up things as they go. I’ve always had a secret theory that Alias served as a lesson learned type of moment for Abrams and his producers to not make up things as they go. And they that they have an end date, it’s been quite obvious they have a plan in motion which they’re moving towards. That’s not to say further on the fly changes won’t happen. But I don’t think they’re making up things as they because so many details connect from past eppys from waaaay back to the beginning of the show. Speaking of which, the skeleton found in the cave in the first few eppys will came back. Mark my words.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
You could criticize Lost in a lot of ways
though I love it, but “lazy writing” is not one of them.
by Awesome Mike Awesome on May 7, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
That show is DRIPPING
in bad writing. Take, as one mere example, Kate’s character. You know why she gets to be involved in things, and why you’re supposed to like her? Because she’s a main character, and because she’s hot. The character herself waivers between bland, despicable, and fucking annoying, and YET we are supposed to care about her, and to believe that these other characters care about her….for no good reason. She’s a main character, accept it.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on May 7, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
The character herself waivers between bland, despicable, and fucking annoying, and YET we are supposed to care about her, and to believe that these other characters care about her….for no good reason. She’s a main character, accept it.
I don’t know if we suppose to care about her becuase of the reason you mentioend, but she’s a three diminensional character. Like real people, she’s contradictory, annoying, despicable, bland but she’s also incredibly loyal, brave, and take no shit person. And I mention she’s hot.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
does it seem to anyone else that they’re setting up that everything is a big pointless loop.
Yes, in fact, I think the rest of the show (next season is the last season) will be about preventing the incident thus preventing the entire sequence of events that caused them to land on the island in the first place. Maybe the show will end with them landly safely in LA instead of crashing on the island (kind of lame if so). The eppy where Sayid shot Ben was awesome. It’s been kind of weak since then. I understand that the producers don’t want to answer things immediately. For example, I’m fine with not knowing what the smoke monster is. But there are certain things they should have answered by now just so people can, you know, keep up with the coherency of the plot! Things that annoy me:
- They keep saying everybody has a purpose for coming back. This is either weakly answered or not answered so far for each of characters. So Hurley had to come back because he was addicted to Dharma potato chips? What was the point in Charlotte? Miles’ “purpose” was annoying weak.
- On a related issue, why the sudden shift in character in Jack? Why did Jack become a man of faith all of sudden? They sort of hints at answers llke Jack seeing his dead dad everywhere, but it’s not really clear.
- What are new people who recently crashed on the island doing? The show kind of left them behind.
Really old questions are still not answered like:
- Where did the dharma drops come from? Is that some weird time shift thing.
- Why were the Others so interested in Walt (beyond they can’t have children on the island) and why did they let him go? In DVD extra scenes, they hinted that he was more trouble than he expected. This should have been addressed long ago.
- Why were certain people kidnapped but not others? Jacobs makes up the list, ok fine, what’s the logic behind his selections beyond he wants “good” people.
I like the way Locke has become sort of like Neil from the Matrix once Neil realized he was chosen one.
I still really like the show but my enthusiam is starting to die a bit. That’s all I have brother!
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
Jack
started turning into Locke after Locke told him he’d seen his dead dad on the island.
by Awesome Mike Awesome on May 7, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
This season has...
Kind of pissed me off. I was really loving season 4 and when this season started, I was extremely turned off about the new approach. Now that they stopped zipping through time so much, I’m enjoying it a lot more.
What characters do you like or hate the most. Mine are the following:
Favorites:
Sayid
Farraday
Locke
Least Favorites:
Charlie (what a bitch, I’m so glad he got canned!)
Hurley
Everyone else has their moments….
FAVS:
Favorites:
Sayid
Hurley (Fat guy comic relief LOVE IT)
Jack (Seasons 1- MIdway thru 4)
Least Favorites:
Charlie (totally agree with TBA)
Claire (I just dont get it is she gonna be part of the story or not)
Jack (the other half of season 4 – present)
"We're so bad right now that for us back-to-back home runs means one today and another one tomorrow." ~ Earl Weaver
but damn she's hot.
I really liked her character at first. Once she picked up Aaron, she became kind of boring.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
Yeah I'm a sucker for freckly girls like her, too
But the fact that I hate her character is a testament to just how terrible her character is.
Old Jack was egomaniac. New Jack is much more chill…. although that egomaniac side starting to rear its head a little bit last night.
And I really liked old Kate. Her (perhaps unconscious) desire for unstability in her life is interesting. She can be self-destructive but self-destructive in ways that are very human. The chemistry between her and Jack was fun to watch in the first couple of seasons.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
I think Jack is at least an interesting character. He’s now willing to sacrifice his relationship with Kate (maybe because he knows she’s pining away for Sawyer, anyway) to un-do all this.
Right now, anyway, Kate is just annoying. But hot.
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
He’s now willing to sacrifice his relationship with Kate (maybe because he knows she’s pining away for Sawyer, anyway) to un-do all this.
Knowing your GF/BF is pining for someone else isn’t a bad reason to sacrifice a relationship.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
Actually you're right
I couldn’t stand early Jack. He was condescending and obnoxious. I also didn’t really like the way he always used to treat Kate like some damsel in distress when she could clearly kick his ass. I found him insufferable and self righteous. He’s not that person anymore. Now he’s a little bit boring.
My two favorite characters are Sun and Jin. And Richard, but only because I can’t wait to find out what the deal with him is.
I’m smart, not a dummy. ~Adam Jones
I want to love Sun and Jin especially since they’re Korean-Am (I’m Korean-Am), but they’ve become so boring lately. Loved them early on. Now Jin just kind of mumbles stuff. I liked vindicative Sun after Jin “died.” Now she’s kind of boring as well. And I’m not sure what her “purpose” for coming back to island is. Sure, she wants to find her husband, but is that why island wants her back?
I hung out in the Yunjin Kim’s apt building a few weeks ago, woohoo! Not her specific apt of course, just her building. I think I would literally shit in my pants if I saw her.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
You're right about recently
They just haven’t been given much to do, especially Jin. But they’re still my favorites overall.
I couldn’t understand why Sun returned to the island. Even if she has a purpose, it just makes no sense for her to go. Imagine leaving your baby behind because you have to go on an airplane that might crash and you might survive and find your husband who might not have died, and then maybe one day you might find a way off the island and back to your baby? I don’t know what on earth convinced her. I could never do it.
I’m smart, not a dummy. ~Adam Jones
+1,000,000,000,000
It's 4 in the morning. Too much to drink. All the girls look hot. So, the Nationals are Jennifer Lopez to me. —Julian Tavarez
FAVS:
Sayid, Sayid, Sayid.
Juliet
LIKES:
New Jack.
Desmond brutha.
DISLIKES:
Michael
Shannon… i think that’s it. I’m mostly indifferent towards everyone else.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
Ben is my favorite character by far. Just the manipulations on top of manipulations — he’s brilliantly pulled the strings of everything that’s taken place, with the exception of what’s going on right now, and when he called Keamy’s bluff and his daughter was shot.
I enjoy how they’ll try to portray him in a somewhat sympathetic light, or at least good compared to Widmore, but then he goes right back to utterly ruthless.
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
Ben is an excellent character. Interestingly enough, he was only scheduled to appear in a few eppys but he was so good that the producers wrote him into the script permanently.
Which reminds me of another issue. It’s not a big deal but I wish they would tell us who was Henry Gale. The Henry Gale who was buried. Just a random guy who ballooned to the island?
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
Ugh. Perilously close to shark-jumping
It’s like all season long, they’re putting off making decisions about where they’re going, and now every third minute in the last two weeks is a dum-dum-DUMMMMMM! moment. Puhlease. These last two episodes have had more breathless-whispery revelations and more screechy violin scoring than the all the other shows this season combined.
I’m still hooked, still watch every week. But things I’ve really tired of
• someone asking “why do we need to do this” and being answered with “there’s no time to explain” or “that’s not important right now” or “just TRUST me, dammit”. That’s just the laziest kind of writing. The answer is obviously, “we need to do it to move the plot of the show forward without tipping our hand or cutting off our choices of where to take it.”
• evangeline lilly emoting
• flashbacks filled with soap opera scenes that reveal little about character
characters/things i still love
• hurley. one of the best characters ever created on TV.
• locke, in his newfound role of cutting through the BS and mysticism. it seems as jack becomes more about faith, locke becomes more about logic. (btw, terry o’quinn got his start as bawlmer’s own center stage in the 1970s)
• all the fun 70s touches that the art department works into the flashback scenes. the VW vans rock! I had a blue 78 VW van for many years
• sun (and jin to some extent as well) and sayid in just about every storyline they’re involved in
• sawyer (when he’s interacting with other folks, not when they’re not rehashing the tiresome debate about which woman he should be with)
It's 4 in the morning. Too much to drink. All the girls look hot. So, the Nationals are Jennifer Lopez to me. —Julian Tavarez
Oh another thing that bothered me
So Sayid Jarrad shoots and kills dozens of Widmore’s men but he can’t gun down a 12 year Ben Linus. Give me a break.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
Typical crappy writing
Grown men with years of experience killing people suddenly stop paying attention when main characters show up. Another big pet peeve: the nameless, faceless cast that exists just outside of the main characters and are used basically as cannon fodder (this can apply to any show). One of the reasons I thought 24 was so great – no one was safe. Established characters got killed off all the time. It kept you guessing.
And yes, one more pet peeve – huge sappy funeral ceremonies for main characters, but no one cares when a background character gets killed. I guess these are all reasons why I’ve pretty much stopped watching TV.
Rose and Bernard. Where are they? They survived the flaming arrow attack and were jumping around in time, but now they’re nowhere to be found — it’s just like the writers forgot about them.
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
They at least have names, and have a (terrible) story
Rose is also in the running for worst character ever. Two from the same show! How about that?
You’re right, everyone else is cannon fodder. It’s like when Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, and Ensign Smith beam down to a strange planet, which one’s going to die.
Like “Arzt” (the science teacher), Nikki & Paulo, and “Frogurt”.
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
Do we need to see funerals
for every corpse that washed up on the beach? How entertaining would that be? Use your imagination.
by Awesome Mike Awesome on May 7, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I get the funeral comment, but...
as a film/TV major and would-be writer, I can say that narrative economy is a bitch. If you don’t have to have it, don’t put it in; your story will function much better if it you trim “fat”, which translates into “realism.”
Also, they’re people living on an island that travels though time; it’s okay to throw some realism out the window. If Ben is destined to play a role on the island, it’s not hard to believe that no matter how hard Sayid tries, Ben will be kept alive.
Rousseau
I found it a bit weird that we haven’t really encountered her at all in the 70s as of yet… I think she might be making a surprise entrance come the finale.
there was a 70s Rousseu eppy this season, you might have missed it.
Which remnids of another annoying thing they should have cleared up by now, what the hell is the sickness.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
Well so far
we’ve seen the island change someone for the worse (young Ben, who according to Richard “will never be the same”) and we also have the electromagnetic interference that send people through time and leave them brain dead in the present (like the dude on the boat last season).
Since we already some of Rousseau’s group get sucked into the smoke monster’s hole, I’m saying the “sickness” is similar to Ben’s possession.
There is no sickness, Rousseou just went batty.
Remember, Desmond thought everyone was sick too, but that turned out to be fake. The only real thing is the bad baby-making, which might have something to do with The Incident!
Also, isn’t it like, everything they do is going to be what makes the things that happen to them happen, like Sayid trying to kill Ben is what made Ben an other. So if they blow up the nuke (I don’t think they will) I bet that is what sets off the incident.
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on May 8, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember, Desmond thought everyone was sick too, but that turned out to be fake.
Why did Rousseu’s hubby did try to shoot her? She attributed to the sickness. Now I don’t think there is actually a sickness. But why did Rousseu’s hubby try to kill her? And who and why started this nonsense about the sickness?
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
ha
I was just replying with that. I think Rousseau is the only person who called it a “sickness.” But something happened to her husband. I wonder if that’ll ever get explained.
I’m smart, not a dummy. ~Adam Jones
Remember one of her crewmates got dragged by the Smoke Monster into the hole in the temple wall?
I forget if that was her husband, or if he was one of the guys that went in after him, but they all went into the temple except Rousseau (I forget if she made this decision on her own, or if Jin — who stuck back in that time period at the time — advised her not to go in). Her husband did come out, but he was either possessed by the smoke monster/disease, or Rousseau though he was, and she shot him.
She was about to shoot Jin (who had jumped in time to this moment several months later) when he flashed away again.
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
I thought she shot her husband because she shot everyone else….he tried to shoot her because she went bat shit and killed everyone else in her party.
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on May 8, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry — didn’t mean to “flag” this.
Rousseau and her party shows up in the 80s, or at least after the 70s dharma camp the losties are now living in.
They were still jumping around in time when they met her.
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
I think you're just about right
It’s all a big loop. The survivors who got sent to 1974-1977 are setting in motion the events that lead to their crashing on the island. We’ve seen this driven home for the past half-dozen episodes or so. Though I figure whatever is going to happen with the nuke – the “incident” – will send the proper people back forward into 2007 to set up the final season. Kind of interesting to watch considering it’s all effectively exposition.
But any exposition with Hurley around is great. Writing the script to Empire Strikes Back… awesome.
Cry havoc and unleash the Esskay hot dogs of war! - The Wayward Oriole, Opening Day 2008
On the topic of JJ Abrams
I saw Star Trek earlier this evening in IMAX at White Marsh.
It was beyond awesome.
I'm not really a big first crew star trek fan
But I’m PUMPED about the new Star Trek. JJ was suppose to be on NPR today but he punked out on the last second. As far as JJ’s shows goes, loved Alias and Lost. Fringe looks interesting and I’ve been meaning to start to watching it. His other shows are weak. Felicity really isn’t my thing. What About Brian sucked but yet I kept watching it. Six Degrees was ok but it got canned pretty fast. Mission Impossible III was like Alias the Movie.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
Is it just me....
or is LOST becoming Battlestar Galactica:
“All of this has happened before, and will happen again.”
Matt Wieters took batting practice this morning. There were no survivors.
Nietzsche?
Maybe I’m way off in my understanding but I’m thinking the philosophical undertones (esp. those of John Locke) seem to be moving in a Nietzschian “God is Dead” direction.
Maybe I don’t understand Nietzsche, Lost, or both, but with Locke’s quest to kill Jacob I’m wondering if that’s is part of what they’re trying to convey.
Thoughts?
well, i've certainly noticed occasional religious metaphors in the show
or rather than religious i guess i should just say “biblical”, since the references are all judeo-christian…
– jack’s dad who spoke to locke is named “christian”, and jack’s own last name is “shepherd”
– locke was dead and then resurrected
– “Jacob” is also a biblical name, and is considered the father of all the israeli tribes
– the island could be seen as some kind of “paradise” after the fall. are the two skeletons from season one adam & eve?
– benjamin: not really a biblical name, but kind of acting in the “fallen angel” role
It's 4 in the morning. Too much to drink. All the girls look hot. So, the Nationals are Jennifer Lopez to me. —Julian Tavarez
Benjamin
It’s biblical. One of the 12 tribes and in the NT Paul says he’s from the tribe of Benjamin.
But yeah, I’ve not thought too hard about the judeo-christian allusions because I tend to see them a lot of different places mostly because I’m a seminary nerd and work as a youth pastor. Either way you’ve given me some more points to think about. Thanks.
I have thought a bit about the philosophical allusions though. John Locke being called Jeremy Bentham when Jack went to view his body at the funeral home. I thought that was great. I remember there being many more, but I can’t think of them now.
by Gorilla Bird on May 8, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I have thought a bit about the philosophical allusions though. John Locke being called Jeremy Bentham when Jack went to view his body at the funeral home. I thought that was great. I remember there being many more, but I can’t think of them now.
Bentham is famous for his panopticon concept which is a method of surveillance in modern prisons. Litereally, the panopticon is a central observation tower in a donut shaped prison. Metaphorically, it stands for an instrument of power and surveillance. As espoused by Ben many times, Bentham thougt the panopticon was an effective method of control because prisoners internalized the power of surveillance as projected by the panopticon. Thus they self-regulated themselves into obedience w/o physical force. I guess Locke is a stand in for the panopticon. He is the person responsible for watching over the Oceanic 6 but he didn’t a particularly good job in exercising power over them.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
Interesting
I actually didn’t know that about Bentham. A really thought provoking take on things.
by Gorilla Bird on May 8, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
very informative. thanks.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
The island is bi-polar.
I’ve been saying this forever, but it’s like, why would the island want Claire to have to raise Aaron, but then later want to seperate them.
Now finally they reveal that the Island talks directly to Locke, and this Jacob character is an asshole.
Christian or whatever is aligned with Jacob, Claire is trapped by Jacob, and the smoke monster is part of the island. right?
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
Did the Island tell Claire
she had to raise Aaron, or was that just the psychic? Because he was revealed to be a crackpot.
by Awesome Mike Awesome on May 8, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been saying this forever, but it’s like, why would the island want Claire to have to raise Aaron,
Emile de Ravin became pregnant in real life so she needed to be written out the show. That probably played a factor.
"Your wife told you to play in New York.
Well, my wife told me you look like a dork." Boo Teixeira guys.
Good call. I assume that they will eventually explain Claire’s disappearance. She was last seen by the survivors in the jungle with Sawyer, right? and then didn’t we (viewers) see her in the cabin with Christian?
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
Season Finale
Entertaining, but frustrating finale last night.
So, I was kind of right about the obvious "last thing we see is going to be the bomb going off."
So, we now know a little bit about Jacob (which is a lot more than we knew about him before), but nothing new about Richard, the hostiles, etc. At least they decided to tell us what happened to Rose, Bernard, and the dog (I forgot about Vincent).
I think they might set this up pretty much how I guessed last week. The bomb goes off, and "the future" is changed and they never land on island. But, since we saw last night that they’ve been chosen/identified by Jacob for some reason, they’ll be brought together anyway and we’ll find them on the island at exactly the moment Jacob needs them. I think that just like Ben has for almost his entire run on the show, Jacob is somehow manipulating everyone, including Ben and Undead Locke Lookalike, to do exactly what he wants.
(And Jacob and his enemy? In typical Lost fashion, there will probably be another layer of conflict beyond those two. Maybe it’ll be transforming robots this time. — JK, with one season left, it’s probably time for them to start explaining more about who these guys are the relationships between Jacob, Mystery Guy, Richard, Ben and Widmore)
I think the guy with Jacob at the beginning (and I guess who it’s strongly implied is also Undead Locke Lookalike) is the embodiment of the Smoke Monster. The Monster, dressing up as Ben’s daughter, threatened Ben to do exactly what "John" wanted, which was to kill Jacob. I guess that’s the loophole? That guy can’t kill Jacob himself, but if he can engineer a ridiculous enough set of circumstances over a 5-year period, and can convince the leader of Jake’s people to betray him, then sorry Jacob. BUT, with the bomb going off, the "past" will be changed, plane never hits the island, etc, so Ben’s not convinced to kill Jacob. The "survivors", who never crashed in 815, are brought to the island through some other way (maybe a cruise ship crashes this time or maybe it’s just another plane crash). There’s some dramatic final confrontation involving Ben and Widmore, Jack, Sawyer, Locke, Jacob, and Mysterious Island Dude.
I’m definitely wondering if the writers knew where they were going with the series the whole time. It just seems like some things that were implied to be very important, like Walt’s superfreaky powers, Mr. Eko, and can’t-have-babies-on-the-island, seem to not be that important.
I’m sure they have no idea how to tie this all together, so it’s probably a good thing I bailed them out by storyboarding Season 6 while I should be working.
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
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