Is it too early to start looking at next year?
by Stacey on Aug 11, 2009 3:47 PM EDT
in Commentary & Analysis
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PrintI haven't watched much baseball over the past few days. I caught the last two innings of Sunday's loss and two batters in yesterday's game (the two outs after Markakis' double). I haven't sat down and watched a game since the loss in Detroit last Wendesday. This happens every year, my waning interest. It's natural of course, and happens to most us. Just look at the game threads from last September; they're ghost towns. Every year I think it'll be different, but it never is. I'm still excited to see a number of individual performances on the team, but that's about it.
So, on to next year. Offensively, the Orioles immediate needs for next year are first and third base. Wow, is that really it? Outfield? Check. Middle Infield? Check (for next year anyway). DH? Half a check. Catcher? Check check!
The only possible internal options for first and third are Josh Bell and Brandon Snyder, neither of which I believe will be ready for Opening Day 2010. I suppose if Brandon Snyder finishes his AAA season strongly and impresses in Spring Training he could be a candidate for first base. Upon being promoted to AAA on June 19th he struggled, but has since picked it up and was just named the International League's Player of the Week.
Josh Bell has been AA all year, most of it playing for the Chattanooga Lookouts, the AA affiliate for the Dodgers. In five games with the Bowie Baysox he has looked good with 4 hits and 4 walks in 17 plate appearances, but mid 2010 or 2011 is probably when Bell will see his first action in the big leagues (provided he doesn't tank).
If the Orioles are projecting Bell to be the 3B of the future, it's possible the everyday 3B job in '10 will go to Ty Wigginton. He's not ideal as an every day replacement but is an upgrade over Melvin Mora and will be adequate until Bell is ready.
Earlier in the year I was an advocate of offering Aubrey Huff arbitration after the season. I figured if he turned it down, draft picks. If he accepted it, he'd be ok over there for one year. I have since changed my mind on that in a big way. Aubrey Huff is awful. I've come around a lot on Huff in the past year or so based on his numbers last year and the fact that he's a big, goofy, fun dude. But he's just not good enough to stay with this team going forward. His WAR on the year so far is -0.4, good for dead last on the team. His OPS+ is 87, 2nd worst of his career and worst since 2001. I like Huff and I know that he really wants to stay here, but it just cannot be justified.
The word on the street is that the Orioles want to add a big right handed bat for next year. Presumably this bat would fill in at one of the corner positions or DH and I'd imagine would come from free agency. That's the plan right? Buy the bats? Not to mention the only trade bait the Orioles currently have is pitching prospects and that's a hard thing to trade.
A list of upcoming free agents who fit the parameters and my thoughts on them below the jump.
| Player | A/B Status | Position | Age in 2010 | Comments |
| Adrian Beltre | B | 3B | 31 | Might be cheap this year due to injury; very good defender; not a great on base guy, but has decent power |
| Joe Crede | N/A | 3B | 32 | Injured a lot; can't hit; pretty good fielder |
| Pedro Feliz | B | 3B | 35 | Old; good defense, can't really hit; Phillies have option |
| Chone Figgins | A | 3B/2B/OF | 32 | versatile; good defender, decent hitter; not much power |
| Jason Bay | A | OF | 31 | Will probably be re-signed by BOS; if not he'll have lots of teams after him; will require a huge contract. |
| Marlon Byrd | B | OF | 32 | Only hits well in Texas |
| Jermaine Dye | A | OF | 36 | Old; hits for power; could be DH candidate; White Sox have option |
| Vladimir Guerrero | A | OH/DH | "35" | Old and broken down |
| Matt Holliday | A | OF | 30 | Great hitter, good defender; Boras client; will be courted by all big market teams and will get a huge contract. |
| Magglio Ordonez | A | OF/DH | 36 | Old, having down year, could be toast. Tigers have option. |
| Andruw Jones | N/A | OF/DH | 33 | He's a mystery; looks good this year but is only playing part time; looked totally cooked in '07-'08; could be cheap; would really confuse Gary Thorne who already calls Adam Jones "Andruw" half the time. |
Honestly the only guys above I'd have any interest in are Matt Holliday, Jason Bay, and Chone Figgins. Maybe Adrian Beltre if he's super cheap, and maybe Jermaine Dye if it were a few years ago. So much for buying the bats.
This certainly isn't a comprehensive list. I got my 2010 FA class from COTS and made a list of all right handed 1B/3B/OF/DH, then cut out the really horrible ones. It's pretty much all guys who used to be good and guys who were never good. The only prime hitters out there are Jason Bay and Matt Holliday. Other RH 1B/3B/OF/DH who will be FA that I didn't include above: Robb Quinlan, Mike Sweeney, Geoff Blum, Troy Glaus, Rocco Baldelli, Mike Cameron (I had no idea he'd gotten so old. It made me feel old), Coco Crisp, Reed Johnson, Austin Kearns, Jason Michaels, Manny Ramirez (who I almost put on the list but why bother), Gary Sheffield, and Randy Winn.
A few players I wouldn't mind seeing in orange and black next year even though they are lefties: Carl Crawford (Rays have option), Nick Johnson.
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How about a utility guy?
Basically a backup middle infielder. If Wiggington slots in as the everyday 3B for 2010, then he wont be backing up SS & 2B (thank God). Dino is really only a shortstop, not a legit 2B, AFAIK, so rather than keeping two light-hitting SS, how about shopping for a Jerry Hairston-type player, who can spell B-Rob, Cesar or Wiggy without embarrassing himself. (Ryan Freel, anyone? JK.)
Of course if we p’ick up a Beltre or another starting 3B, then Wiggy stays in his jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none role.
We need to upgrade by a lot more than a utility guy
If we start next year with Wigg/Huff on the corners it’ll be highly depressing.
honestly...
i’d see what the nats would want for adam dunn.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
Wow
I knew that the 3B FA market was bleak, but there’s not much out there in the OF either. I got a good laugh out of the quotation marks for Vlad’s age. He certainly looks to be 50 this year.
"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson
Im guessing
you’d want to see Crawford in lf and Nolan DH’ing? We could pick up Chone and have the most leadoff hitters EVAR.
Matt Wieters can get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop in under one lick.
None of those guys are worth it
The master plan says be good in 2011 anyway, right?
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
Great thought provoking post
To be honest I would rather try young players instead of the list of FA 3rd basemen. I would not want to trade pitching because we don’t know what we have yet. Our best pitchers could still be in the minor league system.
What I would hope is Snyder can play first in 2010, Reimold can DH and Pie can play left field. Wigginton can play 3rd unless something good falls in our lap.
2010 could be a suprise if we hit the baseball consistently
"Losing teams find ways to beat themselves" Jim Palmer
Not to defend Melvin ...
… but he’s a better fielder at third than Wigginton by a fairly wide margin. Can’t say that Ty is much of an upgrade offensively either.
It may be that the O’s end up offering Mora a two year deal, with a team option on the 2nd year. I think he’s well past his prime as a hitter, but who out there is a realistic upgrade?
hakkaa päälle !
Mora won't get a 2 year deal from ANYONE.
And if MacPhail gave him one (I know you won’t…we trust you, Andy) then he ought to be fired. Melvin Mora is done. OPS+ of 70. Ty isn’t great, nor a long term option, but he’d be a significant upgrade.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Aug 11, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Ty is a DRAMATIC upgrade over Melvin this year. Melvin is HORRIBLE and only going to get worse.
The Orioles would have to be batshit fucking insane to offer him a two year deal – that would be the most retarded thing I could possibly imagine. Sorry – no offense to you but that’s a fucking absurd suggestion. Sorry again – I know this comes off as angry, but Mora is terrible and the thought of us paying him to play baseball again next year pisses me off.
He sucks defensively too.
Ty is an upgrade
for the simple fact that he’s already signed to a relatively decent contract that runs out next year. Plus I’ve never heard Ty pop off about being disrespected.
That’s not statistics but it’s the damn truth.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Yeah he's really not a dramatic upgrade this year
Wiggington OPS+: 84. Mora: 70. And don’t know about defense, but I would imagine Melvin is ahead, thus slightly closing the gap (altho Wiggington’s ability to fill in at SS late in a game is nice)
Some more basic stats
Mora’s line (in 311 ABs) :
.260/3/29/650 OPS
Ty’s line (270 ABs):
.263/8/32/714 OPS
Seems like a pretty sizeable upgrade to me. At least that’s my impression when a guy outproduces you in less ABs…
I don't consider that much of an upgrade.
I am not a big Mora fan. But that doesn’t mean that I’m going to let it color my analysis.
I don’t think the O’s resign him. That’s because I don’t think he will be willing to accept what would be a reasonable offer and because he’s already complaining about being respected.
However that is not the same as saying that Mora the baseball player is a lousy choice to play 3rd base for one more year.
hakkaa päälle !
really?
3 times as many HRs, more RBI, and 65 pts in OPS in 40 less ABs doesn’t seem like much? Seems like a lot to me.
And I don’t see how you could make the argument that having Mora play 3rd next year is not a terrible idea. He’s terrible.
3 times as many HRs makes it sound a lot more dramatic than it is
And RBIs are meaningless. THe diff in OPS+ is 84 to 70. Certainly Wigg has been better this year, but when your OPS+ is 84 you better not be hoping for a starting job next year.
I think it's every bit that dramatic when YOUR STARTING 3RD BASEMEN HAS 3 HRS!
And I’d much rather have a guy with his OPS+ than a guy with a worse OPS+ which was my whole point.
No offense taken.
I do think you are letting your personal dislike for Mora influence any objective analysis.
The numbers you posted below show that so far this season Wigginton is slightly better at the plate than Mora. As for defense, for the first time this season I was able to watch several O’s games, as I was back in Maryland last week to visit my dad and attend our son’s graduation from Quantico OCS. And what I saw was that Melvin is still one of the better gloves in the AL at third base. Your can argue and swear all you want. But trying to claim Mora sucks defensively pretty much undercuts any validity to your argument.
hakkaa päälle !
Last Year for Mora and Huff?
One can hope. But something tells me we won’t find anything better and we’ll look straight on to 2011. I want 1997 back.
Bell looks like the future
If that’s the case, MacPhail only needs a stop-gap at third or first. So it seems to make sense to sign someone for a one- or two-year contract.
For me, it seems to make sense to look at Crede or Robb Quinlan.
The reality is that a lot of the free agents at the end of the year will be looking at long-term contracts. That may actually include Crede and Quinlan but it seems like they’re more likely to settle for something short term than Beltre and Figgins.
Well there werent many long contracts handed out last offseason
And this offseason doesnt seem like its gonna be much different. So you may be able to get pretty good players on 1-2 year deals.
Remember Earl's formula:
Pitching, DEFENSE, and the 3-run-HR. Unless Bell makes significant headway over the next 1-2 years both nutritionally and skillwise, he may have to find somewhere else on the field than 3B. Then maybe we should be looking for a real FA solution at third, with Bell as insurance/trade bait.
by fishoutawata on Aug 12, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Would you trade our second round pick...
…for any of the Type A free agents on that list?
I sure wouldn’t. Figgins is the only one even worth contemplating. Beltre is a Boras client; he’s not going to come cheaply.
I think the player to pursue is Mark DeRosa. He’s a type B, right handed hitter who can play third along with a ton of other positions and has lots of trade value as well.
Beltre's a Type B
And I just don’t see Figgins really considering coming to a team which isn’t an instant contender.
Put it this way – is the difference between Figgins and Beltre or DeRosa worth our 2nd rounder, which will of course be near the top of the round?
DeRosa's alright but he'll be 35 next year and is sporting a .328 OBP this year
I wouldnt worry all that much about the 2nd round pick. I dont think we can keep signing middling free agents and keep making excuses – oh, we didnt want to offer enough, or oh we wanted to keep our picks, etc.
Much rather have someone with OBPs the last 3 years of 390, 367, and 391, and whos 3 years younger, even at the cost of a second-rounder that might help us in like 3 years.
That's fair enough...
….I will admit it would be nice to have someone besides Roberts who can take a pitch.
Haha no kidding
Markakis has really disappointed me in that regard this year – his walk rate has plummeted from 14.2% last year to 7.8%. (Roberts’s is down a little from his last 2 years too but its higher than Nick’s.) It’s very discouraging the way our team, overall, doesnt seem to get the value of taking pitches and taking walks.
I want to see
Beltre, I think he could really do well in OPACY and since coming back from his surgery he has played really nicely, he is a great defender. To top that of he is really underrated in terms of running the bases. He would be a great player to have for one year and maybe an option.
"Get out the rye bread and mustard, Grandma, it is grand salami time!"
by WestcoastO'sFan on Aug 11, 2009 5:15 PM EDT reply actions
Pitching Prospects are very Easy to Trade
The Giants gave up a middle tier one for Freddy Sanchez, and the Braves gave up 2 average ones for McLouth
http://www.swagbucks.com/refer/Civardi
The free agent crop is bleak indeed.
I can’t really see any of these players coming here. Bay or Holliday would look good here, but they ain’t happening, and all the rest are easy to pass on, at least as anything more than 1 year stopgaps.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Aug 11, 2009 6:20 PM EDT reply actions
Bay and Holliday would just add to an OF/DH logjam.
Find me a corner IF and we’ll be better off.
"I hate making excuses. If I suck, then I suck. And I suck. That's the way I'm playing. If you suck, you suck. You have to take responsibility in this game. Right now, that's the way I feel. Yes, I suck." - Jose Guillen/quote of the year
We need talent
We arent in a position to turn down talent because of position.
You sort of the logjam later – trade Scott perhaps, or move someone to 1B, or whatever. There’s a reason there are more good hitters in the OF than IF (the latter are more scarce), but if theyre good hitters, you try to snatch them up.
Yes we need talent.
And the way to get it is to draft and scout for it and then develop it. Signing FA’s lessens your ability to draft talent and only makes sense when you are just one player away from contending.
hakkaa päälle !
There are many ways to acquire talent
But if we’re gonna write off free agency, then that just closes up one of our doors. If we’re gonna write off the international market, that closes off another door (not saying you’re saying we should, but the team so far doesnt seem to care about signing int’l players). And until this team makes a significant splash in FA, we’ll continue to be the place that players just use to drive up their cost for other teams.
I don’t buy the idea that you have to wait til you’re one player away to sign someone. Tex was such a good fit last year because he was likely to produce for many years, even if 2009 wouldnt be a playoff year. Players you sign in FA can help for multiple years…or maybe theyre trade bait in a year or two.
Just think of it like a trade. As opposed to trading George SHerrill for Bell/Johnson, we can trade a 2010 second-round pick for a Lackey or Figgins or Holliday. That’s a deal that may very well be worth making.
Sure, signing FAs lessens your ability to draft talent, but then you get talent that is (presumably) already proven and ready to plug into your lineup. I’ve said this before, but a second rounder in 2010 might (if we’re lucky) help us, when, in 3 years? Or we could just go out and acquire top talent (I’m not interested in signing mediocre FAs) and fill a hole immediately.
I am not arguing that the O's should forego FA signings.
However I will argue that looking to FA’s to put together a winning team is not the best strategy and is really only an option for teams with very deep pockets.
The Yankees can afford to restock from the FA market. This year it appears to be working for them. It hasn’t always. Boston has the best of both worlds, riches to go after top tier FA talent and a first class organization at finding and developing talent. The Dodgers are another big market team with a history of drafting good players.
It does not appear Baltimore is in the same league financially with these teams, meaning that it will always be at a disadvantage if it tries to do both. My personal belief is that if you have to choose between where you put you dollars, then put them into your own organization. Hire those international scouts and create baseball schools in Venezuela, Korea, Mexico. That is a better long term investment than a Chone Figgins or Andre Beltre.
Sure Texeira (sp?) would have been a good fit. But he supports my point as well as yours. Baltimore made a good offer to him. There was just no way they were going to be able to offer more than the Yankees. And looking at the list Stacy has provided do you really see anyone that really makes a big difference if added to the O’s roster? I sure don’t.
hakkaa päälle !
Yeah, I'd rather see more int'l work than any 1 signing too
But this team isn’t some charity case with no money whatsoever. It’s not like we couldnt have signed Givens and the rest of our picks too, for example. Yeah, we couldnt have signed CC and Tex for that money, but we certainly can, i would think, beef up int’l stuff and sign someone like FIggins or Lackey.
I agree you have to be prudent in the FA market if you’re not NYY or BOS, but I think the time is coming for us to stop saying “oh, we’re gonna lay low, oh we’re rebuilding, etc”. Almost all of our big guns have been promoted to the majors. We have a ton of $ coming off the books this year. I think it’s time to stop being a pushover.
we will resign huff
we will resign huff
andy will not just lose his rights unless he has a bonafied option which we dont have
so we will offer huff arbitration… no team will offer him a contract to give up 2 picks hes not worth it but its not worth it to let him walk away for nothing.. esp when u have young unproven talent waiting… andy is waiting for them to prove themselves without a doubt in the minors before he allows them to be called up… so huff will be back next year playing off of a one year deal i promise you
that leaves wiggy at 3rd but if he either doesnt get the job done in the hot corner they could platoon him at DH which i wouldnt be surprised cause this team is being built around pitching and D… which leaves hill and synder to battle it out for that one position
crazy thought tho
huff was amazing with his bat in the DH… wonder if they will put wiggy at third huff at DH and luke at First?? just food for thought
Disagree.
I would rather let him walk for nothing than overpay him to be terrible. If you offer arbitration, you’re 100% going to overpay. At some point it’s better to just walk away than overpay for underproduction (see the blue jays and Alex Rios).
You're not necessarily going to overpay in arbitration
As BP wrote last offseason, almost every player who’s a Type A and thus potentially worth draft picks is worth having on a one-year, market-value deal.
Now it may be the case that Huff isnt worth it next year at an arb amount. But I don’t think its clear-cut.
Does anybody ever get a pay cut in arbitration???
I’ve never heard of that happening. Unless that happens he will get dramatically more at arbitration than on the open market. Who is going to pay $9 M/year for a guy 1b/dh who hits .250 with 11 hrs and a lower OPS than our leadoff hitter?
Pretty sure you can offer up to 20% less than what the player made the year before
But I’m not necessarily saying I want Huff next year
I may be wrong
But I think that only applies to players who haven’t reached free agency in his career. I believe you can offer impending free agents whatever you want in arbitration.
That being said, Aubrey Huff has been worth negative money this year. Even if he takes a pay cut he’ll still get multiple millions. I wouldn’t give that up.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I dont know too much about this
But it seems odd that you could offer impending FAs whatever you wanted. Then you could just offer them nothing and know they would decline and possibly give you draft picks. There must be a rule about this.
I don’t know too much about it, but I thought almost everybody who goes to arbitration gets a raise.
Based on what I've checked out online
The rules governing arb for a FA player arent really any diff. Team cant offer less than 80% of what the player made last time. So he could make less than the year before though.
Rios wasn't overpaid...
….when factoring in his defense, most evaluation metrics had his value at or above his salary. The problem was the length of the commitment, which of course wouldn’t apply in the case of a one year deal via arb for Huff.
I want Figgins
Not because of the steals…whatever (his SB% is usually low 70s anyway, not that special)
But because of this: OBP from 2007-2009: .393, .367, .391.
We do have Bell, but whatever. This keeps pressure off him and gives us a potential surplus in a year or two.
I don't like any of those FAs.
I wouldn’t give up any picks for any of them. Better to bumble through with Luke Scott at DH, Wiggy at 1st/third supplemented by whatever we can sign for dirt cheap and no picks or bring up from the minors. We’re not supposed to compete next year anyways right? So why not REALLY rebuild and not sign any overpriced underperformers and just keep our picks and then make a splash in 2011 with bigger signings or trades?
Dunn is available after 2010
I could live with him at DH
"I hate making excuses. If I suck, then I suck. And I suck. That's the way I'm playing. If you suck, you suck. You have to take responsibility in this game. Right now, that's the way I feel. Yes, I suck." - Jose Guillen/quote of the year
I think we need to start competing next year
This team needs to know what meaningful late-season games are like. I mean yeah we can keep pushing the magic year further and further back, but look at how many rookies we have on the team this year, how quickly many guys have progressed thru the system, etc…so lets not write off 2010.
There may not be a Teixeira out there in FA this year but there are good players. A second round draft pick that may, if we’re lucky, help us in 3 years is an OK cost for someone like Figgins or Holliday.
And you think Figgins pushes us over the edge? I don't.
And I don’t think we’re “pushing the magic year back” – they’ve said the entire time (well since AM took over) that 2011 was the year. How could we possibly compete next year??? We have gaping holes at 1b and 3b and DH (Luke Scott is not a long term solution there), a ridiculously inexperience/unproven rotation, and a pretty bad bullpen. I don’t think it’s realistic to think that we can compete even with some “big” signings like Figgins or Holliday (who DEFINITELY won’t sign with us).
If there was somebody like Teixeira out there I would vote for signing him, but I don’t think any of these guys are like that.
Not saying Figgins takes us over the edge
But we need to stop signing mid-tier FAs and start going after the best at their position.
Not sure where AM has ever mentioned 2011 as “the year.” And its not like FIggins cant help us in 2011/beyond also.
Also not sure whats wrong with Scott at DH at his production and cost.
Yeah hes been struggling a lot
And his OPS is still 860. Presuming that he wont stay in his funk forever, that # is likely to go up. He’s a very valuable member of our team, esp for the money.
Give it time.
His OPS is only that high because of an absurd month. He’s been mediocre at best the rest of the season. He’s also 31 already, so he’s clearly not going to get any better. He’s just not that good of a player. Not good in the field and streaky to the point that it’s a serious problem.
Plus guys you sign this offseason can help in subsequent years
Which was sort of the point of going after Teixeira
If the O's are rebuilding, REBUILD!!!!
Say goodby to Mora and Huff. They are over the hill and both are fading. I would rather have Wigginton at 3B until Bell is ready (June?). 1B is a problem if Snyder isn’t ready, but please don’t bring back Huff. I would rather play Aubrey from Norfolk until Snyder or Waring is ready. Play Justin Turner somewhere (3B?) or even Scott Moore if he comes back and is healthy. The O’s are already fielding 4 or 5 rookies in their starting rotation (counting Uehara), so please give the youngens a chance at the corner IF spots. I would rather see the AAA or AAAA players than the over the hill gang we have now.
Id rather just get better players than the ones we have now
We cant give the two corner spots of our IF to Wiggington and Michael Aubrey. That would be horrid.
I agree. Either commit to rebuilding or don't.
I think they should get rid of Huff, Mora, and Luke Scott and then I don’t think we should sign any of these middling free agents. Just keep using the draft picks intelligently. Then in 2011 or even 2010 (if we somehow manage to compete) you can use those prospects as potential trading chips for actual good players.
Luke Scott is not in the same category as Mora and Huff
And I agree we shouldnt sign middling FAs, but rather go after the top ones – Lackey, Holliday, Figgins, etc. Draft picks are nice, but a 2nd round pick MIGHT plug a hole for you in a couple years – or you could just fill that hole at the time. Sign FIggins and 3B is taken care of.
I don't think Figgins is a good fit.
He is a leadoff type of batter without power. The Orioles need power bats from 1B and 3B. If they bring up Snyder at 1B, their need for power at 3B is even greater. Snyder is not a big banger and never will be. He could turn into a very good ballplayer with a .300 average and gap power, but he will never hit 40 HRs. That means 3B has to be a big bopper. Beltre might provide that, and Josh Bell may eventually. Let’s see some big time power!
please, oh please NO Figgins
He’s going to hit .710-740 OPS during his next contract. And we already have a leadoff hitter.
Huff has gone back to being Huff. Deal with it.
Yeah he sucks
Just look at all of the stupid sucky things he gets on the AL leaderboard for. Who needs people clogging the bases and stealing and scoring runs?
On-Base% 9. Figgins (LAA) .390
Runs Scored 1. Figgins (LAA) 87
…
3. Roberts (BAL) 81
Bases on Balls 4. … Figgins (LAA) 66
Stolen Bases …4. Figgins (LAA) 33
Singles …5. Figgins (LAA) 100
Triples 1. DeJesus (KCR) 7
Bloomquist (KCR) 7
Figgins (LAA) 7
Times On Base …4. Figgins (LAA) 194
"I hate seeing Bedard go, but I think the O's may have gotten the better end of the deal" -- me, 2/8/08
by CoachOfEarl on Aug 12, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Well his steals arent that great bc his percentage isnt great
And run scoring depends largely on who’s hitting behind you.
But the OBP is the real winner.
Run scoring also depends on OBP
and SB and SB%. And if BRob can score close to what Figgy can, with our anti RISP lineup…
But he’s a singles hitter. If we want some power, and we think it’s still 2006, Bill Hall just got DFAed.
"I hate seeing Bedard go, but I think the O's may have gotten the better end of the deal" -- me, 2/8/08
Well then lets go after Holliday
But Figgins is a good fit for just about anyone, since he does the most important thing a hitter can do, which is get on base.
He is as far as I'm concerned.
I was naming players who are not long term solutions and will not be a part of a successful O’s team. I very much view Luke Scott as part of that group. Also I’d prefer not to have to watch him any longer.
You're letting the last month cloud your view of Scott I think
Scott’s 31, far younger than Mora and Huff. We keep him at DH, that probably extends his career as well. He’s adjusting well to his 2nd year in a new league (just like he did his 2nd year in the NL). I don’t know why you dont think he help us for several more years
No I'm letting everything except for his one absurdly hot month cloud my judgment. lol
How exactly is he adjusting well to his 2nd year in the league? He had one good month.
I still like Figgins
but I believe he will be courted by many other teams.
Wiggity is kind of a disaster at defense. Maybe he’ll get better with more consistent playing time, but he’ll be average at best at both offense and defense. Which is fine I guess, given the options.
Crede is probably the best defensive 3B in baseball right now. I wouldn’t hate hearing that we go after him, but I probably will later when he puts up a .720 OPS and misses 50 games.
I would be OK with Beltre, another plus defender. Just OK, mind you.
The only FA option I see the O’s pursuing is the average player or below that has something to prove but comes with risk. Since we’re in rebuilding mode and have options in the pipeline. We did well with Izzy,
I agree about Huff, I used to want to offer arb, but he’s been teh suck for too much of this year.. I think there is a good chance they will, and/or sign him to a 1-2 year deal.
"I hate seeing Bedard go, but I think the O's may have gotten the better end of the deal" -- me, 2/8/08
"Only FA option I see the O's pursuing is the avg player or below"
Oh joy. Thats just what we need, more middling players like WIggington.
Not saying it wont happen…it is classic O’s protocol. Lets hope AM is smarter than that
We dont really have options in the pipeline. I mean we sort of do, but we’re banking on EVERY one of our prospects to pan out (or at least the Big 3, Wieters, Bell, and Snyder) which wont happen. Our roster is quite thin on talent, so we shouldnt act as though we have depth.
It sounds as if you believe in doing something ...
… even if it is the wrong move.
If a) one thinks that Baltimore need part ways with Huff and Mora at the end of the season and b) there are no top tier FA’s of the right age to still be producing 3 to 4 years from now and c) you don’t have anyone in your minor league organization ready to bring up as replacements, then the smart decision is to look for someone about average who is affordable.
hakkaa päälle !
Well yeah I agree with that
Rather have an average player than a AAAA scrub. All I’m saying is I’m tired of us making a half-ass effort for the top FAs and then settling for Jay Paytons of the world.
The Payton type signings were under the old regime.
Itzertis and Wigginton are exmples of the new regime.
Itzertis is arguably a good pickup. Not too expensive, still young enough to keep around after the end of his first deal and at least league average. He contributes solid defense, which a young staff needs.
Wigginton is a utility guy who can fill in at multiple positions and hits with a bit of power. He also isn’t expensive and not signed to a long deal. All in all decent value. It’s going after guys that are fairly high cost, both in terms of dollars and length of contract that becomes questionable. You want to be sure they are a good fit and that you are close enough to competing that investing in them isn’t similar to buying a $5 million house in East Baltimore.
hakkaa päälle !
If the average player has no future value to us then I'd rather have the AAAA scrub making the league minimum.
As I’ve said before – either rebuild or don’t. Signing middling FAs just to do it is completely pointless and a waste of money.
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