O's 3, A's 2: About time, don't you think?
by Stacey on Aug 11, 2009 10:06 PM EDT
in Post-Game
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PrintThe Orioles finally bested the Athletics tonight, their first win against them since July 22, 2007, and they have David Hernandez to thank for it.
Hernandez was coming off of two bad outings vs Boston and Detroit and he bounced back very nicely to look more like the David Hernandez we saw earlier this season. He gave the bullpen a much needed break by pitching 6.2 innings of 6 hit ball. He walked just one batter and struck out a career high 6, and he looked pretty good with the exception of two solo home runs. The bullpen closed it out with Albers pitching the last out of the 7th, Danys Baez with a perfect 8th, and JJ closing it out for his 4th save on the year.
The O's offense continues to sputter, managing just 3 runs despite facing a pitcher with awful numbers. Prior to tonight Trevor Cahill had allowed 17 runs in his past 16 innings. That didn't stop the Orioles from looking bad against him. Luckily they were able to do just enough. Brian Roberts led the charge with a 3 hit evening including his 39th double and 2 stolen bases, but his night was spoiled by an awful base running blunder. With 1 out and Roberts on 2nd, Nick Markakis hit a high popup to the third base side of the infield. Roberts, thinking there were two outs, had crossed home plate by the time the ball was caught and was easily thrown out for the double play. It was horribly embarrassing, and not just for Roberts. As was wondered by many in the game thread, where on earth was Juan Samuel and why wasn't he screaming at Roberts to get back to 2nd base?
Thankfully the Orioles were able to win this game, otherwise that mistake would have been huge. The O's had already scored two runs in the inning and were poised for more with Brian in scoring position. It was an awful mental mistake, but the worst part of it is now I'm probably going to have to listen to even more people talk about how Brian is a lazy unfocused so-and-so.
The Orioles first run of the game was pretty much manufactured by Nolan Reimold. He singled, stole second, moved to third on a ground out, and scored when Melvin Mora hit a grounder off the bottom of his bat. Mora had no idea what was going on (maybe he thought it was foul?) because he didn't move towards first base. Reimold could see what was happening and raced home. Their other two runs came in the bottom of the fifth when Chad Moeller and Cesar Izturis led off with back-to-back singles to set the table for Brian Roberts. Brian delivered with a single to right to score Moeller and after Roberts stole second, Adam Jones grounded out to shortstop, scoring Izturis.
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Cahill was the A's top prospect at the beginning of the year.
It’s not like he’s a complete scrub. Ever since samuel sent the runner at 3rd on a short flyout to left in the KC game I went to, I’ve been wondering how he still has a job…
Wish we could get a brawl like phn had tonight still… Sometimes things like that fire up a team that just needs a few breaks here and there.
by GeoffreyA on Aug 11, 2009 10:27 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
well i meant his "rbi" that kinda bounced off the end of the bat/his hands
i didn’t get a great look, i was pretty far down the first base line
On replay it looked as though it went smack off the bottom of the bat.
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
Dude he's not good! I'm sick of this "we faced a good pitcher so it's ok that our bats sucked" bullshit.
Did you miss the part where he’s been getting shelled for a while now? Stop making excuses for our pathetic offense.
Just got back from the game
It was great. Got my Beregensin tee shirt. Can’t wait to wear it. Aside from Brian Roberts idiocy on third the game was great. Good to see Hernandez get another win. I was starting to worry that I was a jinx since the O’s usually lose when I go to games, but THE STREAK IS BROKEN!
god I hope that is intentional
"We're so bad right now that for us back-to-back home runs means one today and another one tomorrow." ~ Earl Weaver
Did they get it right on the shirt...
PLEASE tell me they did.
Jioe Flaacco, Hon!!! "He’s like a live JUGS machine."
POW-MIA
No, I’m not really a prisoner of war (unless you count an entire bank computer system conversion a war), but I HAVE been missing in action around these parts lately.
In sadder news than me missing: 2 out of our last three MBP’s were nobodies… LITERALLY
Sat, 8/8 MBP
Sun, 8/9 MBP
Mon, 8/10 MBP
And in much better news… here is the latest addition to the toe family…
Her racing name was Indigo Sun and someone at the track nicknamed her Lulu (not my choice of name but she responds to it well, so we decided it better to keep that name for her sake). She’s our first retired racer and she’s three years old and off the track for only 3 weeks. She’s really nervous still, but she’s warming up quickly.
Jioe Flaacco, Hon!!! "He’s like a live JUGS machine."
No
We have a dog that certainly we rescued from the pound and a horrible case of kennel cough that likely would have killed him, but nothing on the level of a retired racer.
Jioe Flaacco, Hon!!! "He’s like a live JUGS machine."
We got a serious rescue about 5 months ago.
So badly abused that she couldn’t walk outside out of fear – had to carry her out to go to the bathroom for the first 3-4 weeks. Really incredible seeing them come out of their shell after the realize they’re in a good place now. It’s really good shit.
I wish you the same experience with her.
We've got two rescues
One was clearly abused and still responds badly to men in hats, men with sticks and loud noises.
The other one was apparently just abandoned because she is the happy-go-luckiest dog I’ve ever met.
Rescues are so rewarding, I don’t think I’ll ever want a bred dog.
Roberts and Trembly
I find it incredible that Brian Roberts could be mentioned as a candidate for player of the game after getting doubled up on an infield fly when he forgot how many outs had been made when he was in scoring position with less than two down. He should have been sent to the showers. It reminded me of a game a few weeks back against Detroit when Mora was picked off first base. He wasn’t even looking at the pitcher and neither was the first base coach. Mora didn’t discover the pitcher was throwing over until the ball hit the first baseman’s glove.
The only reason the team continues to make mistakes like this is because the organization accepts it. They make excuses that this is a rebuilding year. I’m not buting it. The bottom line is that this is horrendous baseball and the fans deserve better even in a rebuilding year. These mistakes are humiliating.
If this type of play is acceptable to Trembly, then he should be replaced by someone who will make the team concentrate during practice and fine them when they make boneheaded mistakes like the one Roberts made tonight. Yeah, yeah, Trembly is a nice guy and the players respect him. Big deal. He’s the leader and the team is playing terrible baseball under his leadership and rebuilding has nothing to do with it. There is absolutely no reason this team should be this far out of first place.
It happens on this team way too much and that’s why theyr’e in last place. And “fans” like you accept it. I don’t and I won’t be buying any more tickets until they get a manager who won’t accept it either.
by JimPalmersEgo on Aug 11, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Heard that one before
As amatter of fact, I’m pretty sure I’ve said those words before! Yet here I am… Still following, still buying tickets.
Jioe Flaacco, Hon!!! "He’s like a live JUGS machine."
I bought one ticket this year and it was because my nephew was in town and wanted to see a game. Before the game I told him the Orioles were the worst base running team in history and to watch for a mistake that you wouldn’t expect from a 12 year old. Sure enough, that was the game Mora got picked off first when neither he nor the first base coach saw the ball coming on the most routine pickoff move ever. We laughed and laughed and laughed…
This is the worst base running team in history run by a manager who doesn’t know how to get his team to concentrate on the game. This kind of play is unacceptable at the Little League level.
by JimPalmersEgo on Aug 11, 2009 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions
You know
I respect and understand your opinion, but I’m opposed to you using fans in quotation marks to describe another person. There are all sorts of baseball fans and just because one doesn’t have the same opinion as you doesn’t make him fake.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Did you watch the postgame?
He took responsibility like a man, said it was an absurd screwup and that it was inexcusable and would never happen again. That’s how a leader responds when he fucks up.
you're being facetious?
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Aug 12, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm sorry but
It would have been stupid for Trembley to send the hottest bat of the day to the showers in a tight ball game. Also, if you send him to the showers, who do you put at second? Sending Roberts to the showers would just make the defense (and yesterday also the offense) weaker, late in the game on a nail biter.
It was a bone head play, and I am sure Roberts got chewed out for it.
by John Stephens on Aug 12, 2009 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
What H E double hockey stixs
What was roberts thinking. I was at the game and as he was running everyone was like what the hell is he doing? That just goes down as another base running blunder and that kind of stuff you have to blame on the player and the base coach. Totally un called for. That is why we are in last place.
by Oriolebird88 on Aug 12, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah...
Lets completely overlook our pitching blunders this year like Rich Hill, Adam Eaton, Jason Berken, etc and just blame it on one bad base-running mistake.
by John Stephens on Aug 12, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
ONE bad base running mistake?
I’m not saying our season long atrocious base running is the reason we are in last place, but is has been a season long problem.
But seriously, they way we have been hitting with RISP, let’s be honest…he wasn’t going to score anyway.
I'm just saying
There are a lot of problems right now and to say this or that is “the reason we are in last place” is just dumb. We’ve had bad pitching, poor base-running, bad management, bad w/ RISP, etc etc.
by John Stephens on Aug 12, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
ONE of the many reasons...
not a small one, though. i wonder if the batting w/ RISP issue seems more glaring b/c we’ve run out of so many seemingly money in the bank RISP situations.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Aug 12, 2009 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Well
It wasn’t as bad the first half of the year. This 2nd half swoon has made it look tremendously bad though. I wish I knew more about stats and could figure out the splits on it, but alas I do not.
by John Stephens on Aug 12, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont blame Roberts
I blame Juan Samuel. He should be reminding the runners of how many outs there are every AB and then when Roberts starts running there he should flip out before its caught. Thats his sole job and he failed, and Roberts went 3-4 with 2 SB so he made up for it elsewhere.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Aug 12, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I 100% agree with this.
Samuel simply did not do his job. Yes, Brian messed up, but why wasn’t Samuel SCREAMING at him to go back? I was at the game and did not see Samuel do anything.
I'm kinda shocked Nolan hasn't got any votes.
I mean, the heads-up play on Melvin’s “RBI” was pretty awesome. I mean, Melvin had no clue what was going on and Nolan just whizzes by all, “Whoohoo!”.
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
oh right
I didn’t see that part so I forgot to mention it.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
It was the second batter of the game.
Just missed a simple scoop worm burner to the OF. Jones probably should have grabbed it since he has the stronger arm. DH made mince meat of the next two batters, so no harm no foul.
by John Stephens on Aug 12, 2009 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah, well, I missed that part, so I'll pretend it never happened.
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
I happens to best of us...just ask Milton Bradley
It sorta was a confusing situation…you see Brian had just stolen second base when AJ grounded into what usually is a double-play, so Brian, being conditioned to think (especially over the last few days) a groundout = GIDP, registered the ground out as two outs instead of the one. It probably would have been a GIDP if he hadn’t stolen the base.
With all that said I voted for David Hernandez, who with the exception of a couple Guthrie moments, pitched awesomely…even recorded a career high in Ks and lowered his ERA to 3.81 (not bad for a rookie : )
No. It wasn’t a copnfusing situation. There was one out and Roberts was on second when Markakis hit a pop up in the infield. There is nothing remotely confusing about that.
It doesn’t happen to good players. It happens to dumb players who play for an organization that accepts stupidity. Roberts should have been sent to the showers and fined five grand. Instead, he goes back out to play, everyone makes excuses for him, and the team remains in last place, 19 games under .500, 23 games out of first place, because they play like idiots who have a manager that doesn’t mind so much that they play like idiots.
by JimPalmersEgo on Aug 11, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It very much DOES happen to good players. You need to relax.
Is anybody making excuses for him??? I have no idea what you’re talking about. EVERYBODY said it was a horrible fuck up – including Roberts. It was a 1 run game – why the fuck would you take out arguably your best offensive player? You’re complaining about a losing team – you need your best players in the game to win it.
Umm, see the previous post where Tetris said “It was sort of a confusing situation.” That was an exuse, and a bad one at that.
Why would I take him out? To make a point that players who can’t concentrate on the game will be sent to the showers and replaced by someone who might be paying attention. That’s what good managers do to motivate their teams. Unfortunately, we don’t have a good manager, which is why we’re 23 games out of first place.
by JimPalmersEgo on Aug 11, 2009 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember a few weeks ago
When the entire Red Sox team ran off the field when there were only two outs? What a bunch of effing bums! Why on earth didn’t Francona bench the lot to prove the losing your concentration will keep you out of the playoffs! It’s a wonder those losers aren’t in last place, running off the field like that.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Excellent point, forgot about that.
What losers! THEY SUCK AT BASEBALL! BENCH ’EM ALL.
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
The Red Sox aren’t 19 games under .500 and they’re not 23 games out of first place.
Do you see the difference?
by JimPalmersEgo on Aug 11, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions
No.
They made a mistake much bigger than that which Brian made today, at least I think so. An entire infield v. one guy. I don’t see you complaining that Francona should have sent them to the showers.
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
Give it time. He seems like a bandwagon fan.
So he’ll probably switch to being a Sox or Yankees fan – then maybe he can bitch and moan when they fuck up.
He probably already is.
Just trying to get on peoples nerves.
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
Her point
Since you seem to be struggling with this, was that it happens to good teams as well as bad teams and good players as well as bad players.
Try using that nogin once in a while.
Didnt cost them any outs
The orioles ended the inning that way, but the six didnt jsut waste any outs
by Jordan Tuwiner on Aug 11, 2009 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Who exactly needs to see Roberts taken out to realize that those fuck ups are bad????
What good would that do?? It’s not like he didn’t run out a fly ball or got picked off. He forgot how many outs there are. It happens very regularly in the course of a 162 game season – especially if you’re 23 games out of first place in early August.
The reason why we’re 23 games out of first place is because we have a horrible (right now) rotation, a mediocre lineup (right now), and a mediocre bullpen.
Good players fuck up, good teams fuck up, good managers fuck up. This is not the reason we are in last place.
I’m not bashing Roberts and I wouldn’t have benched him last night but to say that happens “very regularly” is a bit of a stretch. It was awful but whatever… we, unfortunately, see awful on a regular basis watching this team.
Well
We’ve seen it twice just in the last 3 weeks in games with the O’s and there are 30 teams playing 162 games/year…so I think it happens pretty regularly.
It happens to good players, no doubt.
Everyone makes mistakes. Nobody’s perfect. He didn’t try to hide it or blame someone else. He admitted he made an extremely dumb mistake, it happened, we won the game, it’s done. Why would you fine someone 5000$ for making a mistake? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. Sure, they’re professionals and should never under any circumstances make that mistake. But mistakes happen to everyone, even the best in the game. Chill out and move on, my friend.
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
If something like that happened a second time it would merit a benching
for sure. Once—sh(t happens.
by fishoutawata on Aug 12, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow. No wonder this team is playing so badly. Their manager accepts it. Their executives accept it. And their fans accept it. What a bunch of losers. Enjoy the cellar O’s fans.
You should go hop on the Red Sox bandwagon.
Actually, maybe you should just be a fan of the Yankees since they’re already in first place. You don’t want to bother with any second place teams.
Dont let this guy get you so worked up
He joined less than an hour ago, will troll for a while, and then probably disappear just as quick (assuming he doesnt get himself banned first).
You’re right. Why would I come back here to talk to people who don’t seem to know anything about baseball and don’t mind that their team is terrible?
by JimPalmersEgo on Aug 11, 2009 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahahahaha
Says the guy who’s never seen anybody lose track of the number of outs before. Watch a game once in a while buddy.
Then we all agree
You should leave.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Ummm...
I can speak to this with an unbiased opinion. This is by far the best O’s site on the net. You know how I know? Because even though i’m only an hour or so from Baltimore, since my home team is the Phillies, so I have to rely on the net to get my o’s info. Trust me, i’ve been on the other blogs, the fans on here are great. Its almost like you know them personally. Even though the O’s are my "second favorite or al team or whatever you wanna call it, i’m on this site more than any phillies ones because I ,love it, the fanposts are very good and well thought out, the open threads can be flat out funny, and the recaps are excellent..
Anyway, to your other point, these are very knowledgable die hard fans who care deeply about the O’s, and no we don’t like it that the team is terrible, but we stick by them. Thats what TRUE fans do. Because one day the O’s with their young core will do what the Rays did and win the AL East, it may be a few years away, but the loyalty does pay off
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
by phillybmore on Aug 12, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, great minds think alike:)
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
by phillybmore on Aug 12, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Great post.
Much better than my anger-fueled attacks. haha
I don’t have any experience on any other blogs, but I love being able to come here and read intelligent commentary and chat with other fans of the team that I live and die (mostly die) with. I don’t know what he’s talking about us not caring – we wouldn’t be here if we didn’t.
They're not terrible, but not as good
I ‘ve been on a few like roar from 34, and they’re good but this is by far the best. Plus I love the fact its part of sb nation- one registration for all blogs, so if I wanna go on another teams I just pull down the menu and its there
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
by phillybmore on Aug 12, 2009 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Mr. JP's ego...us at CC are true fans of the sport
hell we’ve stuck with our team throughout years and years of failure. But finally our patience and dedication is paying dividends. Us here at CC can see the future of the O’s, a future in which our O’s will be winners. Where we compete for a WS title, while leaving the Yanks and Sox in the dust. This future is but a few years away and Brian Roberts is going to be an extremely important part of our future success. So we will forgive the man for making a very human play, and in two years while you’re crying about your Sox sucking big D, we won’t give a shit.
doooont feeeeed
thaaaa trooooooool!
"Get out the rye bread and mustard, Grandma, it is grand salami time!"
by WestcoastO'sFan on Aug 11, 2009 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
There should be like a 24-48 hour waiting period between registering and posting
I’ve seen it on some other sites and it really reduces trolling.
I agree
We’ll have to see if SC wants to do that
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
by phillybmore on Aug 12, 2009 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions
It was on amazing ave and Minor league ball
Those are 2 examples i know of that have a 24 hour wait
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
by phillybmore on Aug 12, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
They were saying it was going to be on ESPN
I don’t know if its a national or regional, because i’ll get the game on Comcast, but ESPN was advertising it 8 pm start
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
by phillybmore on Aug 12, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry West coast O's Fan
Was typing my response when you submited the don’t fed line. My apologies
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
So on a different topic...
The Cubs bullpen is an absolute clusterfuck right now – any chance they’d be willing to give us some cash or a PTBNL for Baez?? Or even Hendo (has he cleared waivers)
if we can't work out a deal w/ the cubs...
then there’s no deal to be had.
seriously, can anyone think, off the top of their head how many deals we’ve done w/ them in the last few years?
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Aug 12, 2009 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Off the top of my head
Trachsel for Moore, Cherry, and Renshaw
Olson for Pie
PTBNL for Hill (looking like the Cubs got the better end of that, huh?)
Freel for Gathright
Sooo…four trades in two years. That’s pretty significant. Plus we plucked Montanez from their organization. I’d go all the way back to the Sosa deal but my nose might start spurting blood.
"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson
hill...
it was one of those performance-based ptbnl deals (or is that how they always work? i dunno).
was it fontenot, kevin hart and hairston for sosa?
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Aug 12, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Indeed 'twas
It wasn’t so much what we gave up that makes me ill, but what we brought upon ourselves.
"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson
none of those deals
Have had any significance for either them have they?
Also how did we get Bynum?
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Aug 12, 2009 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Who knows?
Nobody wanted to win tonights game, phils or Cubs, both pens were horrible. It was a bad game..The cubs are really desperate though, you never know. Tommorrow they had their one decent bullpen person starting in samarja(hope i spelled that right) THAT will be interesting, hes going against pedro.
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
I think there's a Z in there somewhere. lol
Is that game nationally televised? I’d like to watch Pedro. Just remembered I have a softball game though…
I think it is
They were advertising it to be on ESPN at 8, but not sure if its a national telecast sine i know wed they sometimes do 2 games. They’ll black it out for me since the game will be on Comcast Sports Net
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
by phillybmore on Aug 12, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah right.
What are the Phiils doing with Moyer? I caught something about him being pissed about a “demotion” along the bottom line earlier. Sending him to the bullpen or the minors?
Bullpen
Pedro is taking his spot apparently. Time will tell if that will work
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Aug 12, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
The pen, but..
I get the impression he’ll only be in mop up duty, heres his quote:
I feel a little disheartened," Moyer said. “I feel a little bit like I’ve been misled. I feel like I’ve played this game long enough that the respect factor should be there. I’m really not happy with the decision that the Phillies have made.”
“Ultimately, I’m a little disheartened because this past winter when I was negotiating with the Phillies, this was a sore thumb, if you will, about this potentially happening,” Moyer said. “You can’t promise anything in this game, but I really felt [general manager] Ruben [Amaro Jr.] parlayed to me that this type of situation would not happen. Actually, I even had some discussion with [team president] David [Montgomery] with them reassuring me that this type of situation wouldn’t happen.”
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
by phillybmore on Aug 12, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Sounds a little like Mora...
although if you look at his game log it seems like kind of odd timing. He’s won 6 out of his last 9 starts with 4 really good stat lines in the mix. Couple rough outings in there, but I don’t know. I like the guy.
I know
It was funny when he played for Notre Dame, no one could pronounce it
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
by phillybmore on Aug 12, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions
"r-zep"?
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Aug 12, 2009 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions
White Sox just hit a go-ahead 3-run bomb in the 9th off of Aardsma if anybody cares...
Pretty pumped about it because I had Danks starting in fantasy. Hope he gets a CG too although that’s probably unlikely.
Dang
Aardsma is on a few of my teams. Oh well it happens
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Aug 12, 2009 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions
fuck
that puts the M’s 5.5 out, and yes i care very much
"Get out the rye bread and mustard, Grandma, it is grand salami time!"
by WestcoastO'sFan on Aug 12, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
By the way I love Moyer, super nice guy, but..
he sucks lately and had to go..
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
By the way..
One last thing, I changed my profile pic to me, the boys and moyer from last year, i figured with all the discussion why not. he is a real nice guy, hes just done..
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
Good Night Everyone.
I need some Z’s Talk again tommorrow afternoon!
July 29th What a GREAT day for pitching! Chris Tillman makes his MLB debut, and the Phillies get Cliff Lee, who just won a Cy young Award! SWEET!
i don't get the roberts thing
it’s like most political debates. everyone feels the need to stand all the way on one side or the other, when the point of view that makes the most sense is somewhere in the middle most of the time.
half the crowd here wants to have him DFA’ed or traded, which is clearly stupid. he’s a good player and has a lot of value to the o’s for both baseball purposes and marketing purposes.
the other half wants him canonized – how dare we suggest that he doesn’t run out ground balls? and even the red sox forgot how many outs there are, so that makes it all better. there’s always some excuse for him.
can’t we just live in reality? he’s a really good (not great, but really good) player who often times this season doesn’t seem to care enough and doesn’t have his head in the game. he’s a guy we would like to think of as a leader yet he’s not really displaying the type of behavior that we want jones, wieters, reimold, etc. to follow. he doesn’t run out ground balls. still, he hits a shitload of doubles, and that’s pretty cool. and he seems like a decent defensive player to me. and he’s probably a nice guy outside the game. but let’s judge him honestly, please. celebrate the good, acknowledge the bad, and don’t give me some one-sided bullshit argument all the time, whichever side you’re on.
The reality
Is that EVERYBODY (fans, teammates, coaches, front office, Roberts and his whole family) knows that he fucked up. And he stood up after the game like a man and said that he fucked up and that it was inexcusable and will never happen again. NOBODY is making excuses for him (I’ll give you that one person sort of made an execuse for him on here, but nobody else did).
All that aside, I don’t know what you’re talking about this year being some new thing for Roberts – he’s always jogged when he hits a sure-out groundball. It’s annoying, yes, but in reality it really doesn’t matter. Once a season (at most) somebody will bobble a ball and maybe he could have beaten it out and he’ll look foolish, but it’s just part of the package. Everybody here understands that, but I just think that it’s not that big of a deal when he leads the league in doubles every year, is near the top in runs, provides a nice amount of pop for a 2b, steals a ton of bases, and plays good defense.
what do you mean nobody has been making excuses for him?
people have been making excuses for him all year. you make exuses for him in paragraph 2 actually. you and i have actually argued about this very topic in previous threads i believe, because you’ve excused his lackluster effort by telling me how many doubles he hits. yeah, i get it. he hits doubles. and he steals bases. we like that of course. and yeah, maybe him dogging it is part of the package. but as fans who follow the team and spend money on tickets and merchandise, it’s perfectly legit to complain about it.
what really bugs me is that jones jogged on his way to second after a markakis single the other day (i was listening in the car) to the point where joe angel completely called him out on it. i’m not going to sit here and point fingers at roberts and say it’s his fault. it’s jones’ fault obviously. but on teams where the 31 year old veterans run hard, the 23 year olds tend to do the same. or they hear about it.
How is recognizing that it's part of his play making an excuse?
It’s taking the good with the bad – exactly what YOU said we should all do.
celebrate the good, acknowledge the bad, and don’t give me some one-sided bullshit argument all the time
How exactly do you know what Jones did or didn’t hear about after that play?? You have no clue what goes on in the dugout or the clubhouse. The idea that not running balls out is somehow accepted is just ridiculous – the fact that you don’t see guys jumping up and down screaming in people’s faces about it is not evidence that it’s accepted.
Also use the reply button.
of course i don't know if anyone said anything to jones
most of that stuff never makes it into the papers or the highlights and that’s fine. i’d rather these guys motivated each other in private – it doesn’t need to be a public display. but how does roberts have any credibility at all if he decides at some point that jones or anyone else isn’t playing hard enough?
Huh???
No response to me asking how it’s making excuses for him when I did EXACTLY what you suggested???
And thanks for admitting that you have no idea whether anybody is disciplined. Thanks for your time.
i'll number these for you
1) there’s a big difference between actually calling somebody out for their behavior and mentioning them only to make excuses for those actions. as i said, i’ve argued with you before on this site. you think you’re always right and you’re a condescending prick to anyone who disagrees with you. pointing out the difference between condemning someone’s behavior and mentioning it only to excuse it seemed to be a waste of time. so i moved on.
2) i don’t know if anyone said anything to jones about that particular play. if you think it proves something that i wasn’t in the clubhouse after the game, then i guess you got me. but if the orioles locker room is similar to other teams’, both in baseball and in other sports, players are occasionally getting on each other about the level of effort if someone is dogging it. are you seriously arguing that point?
3) you said i skipped your brilliant point, but you have nothing to say about roberts not having any credibility if he ever wanted to talk to a player about effort. if someone on the team wanted to talk to jones about either that play, another one, or just his general effort, it sure as hell can’t be roberts. i think that’s a bad thing since roberts is one of the veterans on a team with a lot of youth. feel free to disagree.
Right back atcha
1) I have no idea what you’re talking about with this part:
there’s a big difference between actually calling somebody out for their behavior and mentioning them only to make excuses for those actions.
You specifically said you have to see both sides and take the good and the bad – then I specifically said that yes BRob not hustling on some grounders is part of the package but in my opinion that is outweighed by the good. If that’s not taking the good with the bad I don’t know what else is. I also don’t know how else I can “actually call him out” other than to say he fucked up big time – go back and read the game thread and you’ll see that I was as pissed as anybody about it.
2) Not sure how much time you’ve spent in locker rooms, but on every team I’ve ever played on (little league through college) points are made in private. So…again not sure what you’re talking about. I really don’t know who’s the one who makes the point but I gaurantee you it gets made.
3) I have nothing to say about you saying he doesn’t have credibility because I never debated that point. Did I say that Roberts should be getting on guys about not running out ground balls??? He has plenty of credibility when it comes to working hard at the plate, in the field, and on the bases. So he can’t lecture Jones when he doesn’t run out a grounder – I can live with somebody else handling that aspect. Roberts doesn’t exactly strike me as the kind of guy who’s getting in anybody’s face in the dugout or clubhouse anyway, so I’m not too broken up about it. That’s somebody else’s job – his job is to play and produce which he does. You want a captain maybe we can get Veritek – that would make the team MUCH better…
by the numbers again
1) we’re going to have to agree to disagree. roberts could murder a prostitute on saturday and some people on this blog would say he’s cute, hits doubles, and loves jesus. i think you’re excusing his behavior, you think you’re not. let’s move on, i have a lot left to read for class tonight.
2 and 3) i never said points should be made in public. if one of the team leaders wants to talk to somebody about something, it should generally be done in private. my point is that roberts, by virtue of the fact that he doesn’t run out ground balls, is now unable to get on anyone else for it. he would be a hypocrite. i think that’s bad because he’s one of the older players on the team who reimold, markakis, jones, etc. should be looking to for direction. if he did always hustle, he still might choose to not exercise the right to talk to someone else about it, and that would be ok. he doesn’t need to be varitek. i’d rather he be a good player than a rah rah guy. but by not husting, he no longer has that right – he has given up that choice.
and i know you didn’t say anything about the credibility aspect of it – you skipped the point, just like you accused me of doing with one of your points.
i know it breaks everyone’s heart, but roberts’ days of being great are over. he has the 7th best OPS in the AL this year at second base. his OPS+ is 104. he’s a good, not great, player.
Again
1) That may be your opinion, but you specifically said to take the good with the bad and call it how it is and that’s what I did. I’m not excusing it – I wish he would hustle out ground balls. But if that’s the worst he does I’m ok with it because he brings so much else to the table. I’m certainly not interested in trading him or benching him over that – 99% of the time it just doesn’t matter.
2/3) why should Roberts have to make those points to begin with??? It’s NOT his job! Who cares how old he is? He is not a coach or a captain or a team executive – he is a player. YOU may want him to be some sort of leader, but that doesn’t automatically mean he is. And I hope they do look to him for direction: on the way he approaches his ABs, the way he works at hitting, the way he runs the bases (last night excluded), and the way he plays defense.
The point that you raised that I ignored was not related to the argument – the point that I raised was IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO YOUR COMMENT. It’s a little different. I did not have or express an opinion on the point that you made.
I’m not heartbroken at all to have our 2b leading the majors in doubles, 5th in runs, and playing good defense – if that’s good and not great, that’s a good that I would take at every position.
i don't need him to be a leader
but he’s forfeiting some of his ability to be a leader if he ever wanted to by the way he plays. and this is a team that’s relatively devoid of leadership. think about it:
weiters – rookie
scott – maybe a leader?
huff – kind of goofy, doesn’t seem like a leader but i don’t know
izturis – not enough success or time with the team
mora – too busy bitching about playing time
reimold – rookie
markakis – quiet and young
jones – younger, but he’ll be a strong presence on this team for many years i think because of his personality
so there aren’t many guys with “leadership qualities” in the starting lineup. roberts is the obvious guy to do it, but he doesn’t have the right anymore. and you’re right, he probably doesn’t want to anyway. whatever, the leadership thing may be overblown. i don’t want to just assume so though. maybe it matters. maybe someday we’ll be in a pennant race and we’ll have the opportunity to win or lose the game because jones did or didn’t sprint into second, see the outfielder bobble the ball, and take third. and maybe he’ll act one way or the other because of what he learned from the veterans on his team when he was young.
or maybe roberts doesn’t have any impact at all on the way jones plays the rest of his career. maybe baseball is a marathon, not a sprint, and single little plays don’t matter much in the long run. i don’t know. i just don’t like watching roberts throw down his bat and jog very much though.
this is true
They don’t really have a clear leader. I wonder how much that matters. I was just trying to think of recent winning teams and they do seem to have pretty clear cut leaders. On the other hand, supposedly Kevin Millar was our leader in past years and we (and he) still sucked. Maybe they’ll sign somebody or somebody like Markakis or Wieters or Reimold or Jones will turn into a leader.
I sort of thing that if somebody isn’t hustling it’s 100% on them and they generally know that it’s fucked up when they do it. You can see that look on Jones’ face when he does it every now and then – he knows it was bullshit.
Finally made it to a game!
I know, I am a terrible fan. However, I defend myself by saying I have made many efforts to go and the people planning to go with me crapped out. And I tend to think drinking alone at a baseball game is almost as low as drinking alone in a party thread (props davidh).
It was a GREAT atmosphere last night. I was stunned to see how many fans there were out there on a tuesday night with a bad forecast. The upperdeck was packed with people (even though there were plenty of empty seats down below). I definitely lucked out and picked a great game to attend.
David Hernandez looked great. The first HR was a bit odd. I am not sure where it was in the strike zone, but it seemed like it was just a line drive to Nolan and it just carried in the hot air. I bet on a different night that would have died out.
Roberts bat was sizzling, but sadly his great day at the plate and on the bags, was screwed by the “oh there is 1 out?” blunder. It’s bad to make a mistake, but its worse to not learn from it. So hopefully, this is the last time we see that.
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