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Looking to 2010: Pitching

Troy Patton, Brian Matusz, Chris Tillman, Brad Bergesen, Jake Arrieta, and David Hernandez will all be in the running for the 2010 rotation.

 

The Orioles young pitchers are the talk of not only the Baltimore Orioles community, but of the baseball community at large. If even a few of the team's prospects pan out and Andy MacPhail can build a competent offense, the Orioles will be competitive in the AL East soon enough. Most people put that date at 2011, with 2010 being a year of real development.

The current 2009 rotation is Jeremy Guthrie, David Hernandez, Chris Tillman, Brian Matusz, and Jason Berken, with Brad Bergesen and Koji Uehara on the DL. It continues to boggle my mind that if not for Jeremy Guthrie the rotation would be made up entirely of rookies, and rookies that aren't half bad.

It reasons to think that there will be stiff competition for the 2010 rotation, competition that includes all seven pitchers listed above as well as Jake Arrieta, Troy Patton, and any pitchers the Orioles pick up in the off season. Compare that list to the competition for the 2009 rotation: Danys Baez, Brian Bass, Jeremy Guthrie, Mark Hendrickson, Rich Hill, David Pauley, Hayden Penn, Alfredo Simon, Koji Uehara, and Chris Waters. My, how times have changed.

One thing is sure no matter how the rotation shakes out: they're going to be young. Of the current pitchers in the Orioles system who will be competing for a starting job, only Jeremy Guthrie (31) and Koji Uehara (35) will be over the age of 26. Guthrie has a good chance of making the rotation but it seems the writing is on the wall that Koji will end up in the bullpen barring a meltdown by the youngsters.

I've heard Dave Trembley say that a goal for the off season is to obtain another starting pitcher. I can't imagine he'd say that without having first discussed it with Andy MacPhail, so I think it's safe to assume that's one thing he'll be trying to do before Opening Day 2010.  In all likelihood they will look for a pitcher with experience to act as an anchor and mentor to the young staff. I think they hoped that Jeremy Guthrie would be able to handle such a task but his performance so far this year isn't filling anyone with confidence.

As for the bullpen, I think the most important thing to keep the bullpen effective is for the Orioles go have starters who can go deeper into games. Currently the Orioles starting pitchers are averaging less than 5 1/2 innings per game and wearing out the bullpen. Obviously there are many factors at play, but there is certainly a correlation between the effectiveness of the bullpen early in the year when they were fresh and well rested to the troubles they are having now. The Orioles will lose Mark Hendrickson and Danyz Baez for certain, any other changes I'm unconcerned with. The days of the Orioles signing multiple high dollar relievers is over, a good thing given the volatile nature of relievers from year to year. Probably the only interesting story regarding the bullpen going into 2010 will be who is named closer.

So, back to starters. Andy does love his trades, but since I have neither the talent for thinking up trades nor the inclination to even try, instead let's just take a look at the upcoming free agents. The list is below the jump.

Star-divide

First, the guys I think shouldn't get within 100 miles of the Baltimore Orioles: Brandon Backe, Miguel Batista, Bartolo Colon, Jose Contreras, Tom Glavine, Mike Hampton, Livan Hernandez, Randy Johnson, Jason Marquis, Kevin Millwood, Brian Moehler, Brett Myers, Vicente Padilla, Carl Pavano, Brad Penny, Odalis Perez, Andy Pettitte (although if he was on the Orioles he at least couldn't kick their asses a couple times a year), Joel Pineiro, Jason Schmidt, Jarrod Washburn, Todd Wellemeyer, Tim Wakefield, Randy Wolf. And the special, all ex-Orioles list of free agents: Daniel Cabrera, Adam Eaton, Rodrigo Lopez, Sidney Ponson. As for the rest (type A indicated in parentheses next to their name):

Name Age in 2010 Comments
Josh Beckett (A) 30 His option will surely be picked up by the Red Sox, and I can't imagine him coming to the Orioles anyway. But I'd take that hemp necklaced douche bag on my team anytime.
Erik Bedard 31 I spent most of the year imagining him coming back to the O's in 2010, but he's out for the rest of the season as he has exploratory shoulder surgery. It depends on what they find and how cheap he is, but I could still be interested.
Justin Duchscherer 31 He had an awesome year as a starter in 2008 but hasn't pitched at all this year after having elbow surgery in the spring. 
Kelvim Escobar 34 He's only pitched one game this year and probably won't be back. When he's good, he's very good, but he's had shoulder problems for a couple years now.
Rich Harden (A) 28 He's having a down year in Chicago, but he's young and he's good. I like him.
Tim Hudson 33 Another good pitcher coming off of injury. He's currently rehabbing his elbow and hoping to return before the end of the year.
John Lackey (A) 31 Easily a top 5 finalist in the most hideous player in baseball competition, but also a good pitcher who can put in the innings. Can't really imagine him coming to the Orioles.
Cliff Lee (A) 31 I can't imagine the Phillies won't pick up his option, but even if they didn't he'd be snapped up the the Red Sox or Yankees or someone other than the Orioles.
Doug Davis 34 Davis is just average, but he's been around the block. He'd probably get lit up in the AL East though.
Jon Garland 30 It's hard to believe he'll just be 30 next year, it seems like he's been around forever. I'm pretty sure we already have a Jon Garland on the Orioles. They even have the same initials!
Braden Looper 35 After looking at his numbers I realized I should have put this guy on the "not within 100 miles of the O's" list but the fact is you can't edit the number of rows once you create a table and it'd be too much of a hassle to take him off this list.
Brandon Webb (A) 31 Webb was thought to have the dreaded Fabrum Bear, but turns out it was much less serious. The surgery ended up being more of a clean up than anything. He won't pitch this year and will be a risk. He also has an option by the D-Backs that will probably be picked up unless they are scared off by the surgery.

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{links to post about '10 bullpen}

Andy has talked about getting a vet arm next year, I like Lee if we really want to go over board or Duchscherer if we want to take a small risk, he has really good stuff.

"Get out the rye bread and mustard, Grandma, it is grand salami time!"

by WestcoastO'sFan on Aug 14, 2009 12:45 AM EDT reply actions  

I had no idea

Harden was still under 30. He’s an injury risk, but he’s hands down one of my favorite pitchers. The dude has nasty stuff. I’d be ecstatic if we signed him. Mark my words. If the O’s sign Harden, I will be throwing a party.

Matt Wieters can get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop in under one lick.

by daveh873 on Aug 14, 2009 12:50 AM EDT reply actions  

and btw

I dont mind injury risk guys on the 2010 team. If they are healthy, great. If they go down, we get to start bringing up more of the minor league depth. A guy like Harden is perfect in my opinion. High injury risk, but really high reward.

Matt Wieters can get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop in under one lick.

by daveh873 on Aug 14, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Injury not the problem

Harden has great stuff, but his problem is he throws way too many pitches (kinda like Erik Bedard). He gets alot of strikeouts, but in doing so he can usually only go 5 innings.

by No More Steroids Please on Aug 14, 2009 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great post, Stacey

For me there are only 3 pitchers I would look at in the free agent market: Lackey, Harden and Bedard. Lackey will sign in Baltimore the same day I bag Megan Fox. I also can’t imagine a scenario Harden signs in Baltimore. Bedard, however, is a possibility and I think he is a low risk high reward guy who would sign here.

Regarding the kids, I am looking forward to seeing a rotation featuring Guthrie, Bergeson, Tillman and Matusz. I suppose that if we can’t get Bedard, I could live with Hernandez, but I think he is doomed to be a reliever type, though perhaps I’m just buying into the same scouting reports that led me to believe Bergeson would have no place in the rotation. FWIW, I also think Uehara should be named the de facto closer. I’d also like to see Patton and Erbe basically spend all of next year in the AAA, with Arrieta being the first to be called up.

And also, I wouldn’t terribly mind seeing Randy Wolf in Baltimore.

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Aug 14, 2009 1:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Future

Well its likely the rotation will be something like Tillman, Matusz, Bergesen, Arrieta, Hernandez/Guthrie.

Hopefully we can get an Ace-caliber pitcher in the off season, but we can probably due without for one more year. Brandon Erbe probably won’t make it up next year b/c of his command (his last start he only gave up two runs, but five walks). Anyways I think next year we stick with the young arms we have, let them develop and call up the prospects when there ready.

by No More Steroids Please on Aug 14, 2009 1:42 AM EDT reply actions  

Hard to see how this can benefit the team

The reports were clear that the O’s went after Looper and Garland this past offseason, and both were essentially unwilling to come here. Which makes a lot of sense from their perspective; their numbers can only suffer by moving to the AL and to the AL East in particular, and this will lower their future paychecks. In addition, the Orioles don’t have the appeal of being a place where maybe you’ll have a harder time doing well, but you’ll get a sure-fire chance to play for a contender.

What this tells me is that we’re unlikely to get the back-end guys to come here without grossly overpaying and without committing to more years than would be wise. And we’re not likely to get the injury rehab cases either, unless no one else wants them. Hudson and Webb are clearly the most appealing members of the group, but Hudson can get a better deal both in terms of length of contract and chance to win somewhere else. If Webb’s option is declined, it will almost certainly be because he has little shot at pitching next season; teams don’t let go Cy Young winners for nothing otherwise. Harden is brittle and will command an expensive long-term deal that we have no business giving him.

I think at the price it would cost to bring any of these guys over (with the possible exception of Bedard), the value just isn’t there. Starting the year with a rotation of Tillman/Bergy/Matusz/Guthrie/Hernandez with Uehara and Bass both in long relief and Arrieta, Erbe, Berken and Patton in AAA with Britton, Spoone and Johnson in Bowie is adequate to our situation, and the benefits of adding Hudson (if such a thing was possible) just doesn’t equal what it would cost.

by James F on Aug 14, 2009 5:11 AM EDT reply actions  

thanks for a great fanpost stacey.

The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST

by the fix is in on Aug 14, 2009 9:03 AM EDT reply actions  

I think Baltimore should pursue ...

… a time machine so they can go back and pick Zack Greinke over Adam suck Ass and Tim Linicum (from right here in Bellevue, WA) over Billy Rowell.

Greinke / Linicum / Guthrie (another NW guy) / Bergesen / Hernandez this year sounds like a rotation I can rosterbate to.

(And while he’s back there, Andy can select Dave Wright as well.)

hakkaa päälle !

by timg56 on Aug 14, 2009 10:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Smoltz

How about a $1 million flyer on a pitcher who knows what he’s doing and could serve long relief? Smoltz would be a perfect fit for what we’re hoping to accomplish. He would be able to mentor and lead and at the same time could eat up a few inning here and there. It would work for him too as he would not be expected to start every 5 days.

by stuck in the south on Aug 14, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

Smoltz would be if anything a great mentor for the young guys

by col_kl1nk on Aug 14, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't want John Smoltz on my team

telling people that the gays are equal to people who have sex with animals.

Plus, did you see him pitch this year? He’s cooked.

I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry

by Stacey on Aug 14, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't really consider that politics

But whatever. I’ll drop it.

I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry

by Stacey on Aug 14, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

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