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Breaking Down Orioles Prospects Part 1

Since the minor league seasons are ending, I figure now is a good time to take a look at some of our lesser-known prospects. Besides with school starting up again, I want to get this published before next summer.  Some of these players people will know but most fans aren't quite as familiar with them as they are with, say, our big pitching prospects.  In this edition I'm taking a look at Caleb Joseph, Brandon Waring, Matt Angle, Billy Rowell, Robert Widlansky and Pedro Florimon Jr.

Star-divide

 

Caleb Joseph (C) was hitting over .300 this year as a catcher before falling off.  As of August 25th he has played in 96 games or 33 games more than last year.  So the cause seems likely. But how has he even neared .300 when last year his batting average was .261?  Caleb has cut his strikeout rate...by a lot. Last year he struck out 23.5% of the time and this year it's been 16.2%. Otherwise his walk percentage and slugging percentages are almost perfectly in line with last year.  He's been slightly lucky with a batted balls in play (BABIP) of .324 but not extremely so (typically BABIP is slightly higher than .300 although the minors tend to have much more variation as the quality of fielding is lower).If Caleb has really tired late this year, his numbers may be a notch or two lower than we should expect next year.  His success should be sustainable, although his low walk rate will have to improve in Double-A.

 

Brandon Waring (3B) was part of the haul from Cincinnati and has recently moved to third base.  While in Cincinnatti's farm system Waring posted decent seasons because of very lucky BABIPs of .384 and .374. This year it's at .316 while he's posting a very good season with a position change.  Like Caleb he's done it by cutting down on his strikeouts although he's also boosted his walk percentage by one percentage point. Waring has cut his strikeout percentage by just over 10% to a new low of 24.7%.  It's still extremely high but its better. As for his ability to work a count for a walk, this is his third straight year that Waring has increased his walk percentage.  He has a chance to be a Mark Reynolds-type in the majors although to do that he's going to need to be able to keep his walk rate up.  It would also help if he learns to pick the ball at third so he's average or better defensively.  He's taken a significant step up this year so its possible that we may see him suiting up for the Orioles within 2-4 years.

 

Billy Rowell (3B/OF) may not be in the Orioles system for too much longer. After repeating Frederick this year his performance declined this year.  There's probably something wrong with his swing or more likely his approach as like last year he has continued to see his slugging drop as his doubles fall off.  He's hitting more homeruns but not enough to make up for his loss of doubles.  His struggles may have made him more impatiant as his walk rate decreased by more than one percentage point.  However this may not be the time to sell low as this year he hasn't been lucky with only a .294 BABIP a career low.  His strikeout rate is still extremely high at 27.8. In any case Billy needs to move to a new park and probably up a level because he seems to be struggling mentally. Andy McPhail seems to think so too, although whether it's a member of the Orioles or part of a different team is a real question.

"I would think he would benefit from a change of scenery," MacPhail said. "His bat hasn't come around like we hoped when we drafted him. He's still young."

 

Robert Widlansky (1B/OF) is having a major bounceback year after being stuck in extended spring training earlier this year.  Unfortunately a good portion of it is luck as his BABIP is over .400 with the average usually being slightly higher than .300. However its about time he's had some luck as in 2007 his BABIP was .207 (How do you get a BABIP that low? Seriously? He must have hit a whole lot of flyballs and infield popups because that's almost impossible) 2008 was somewhat better with a .316 BABIP at short-season A and then a .256 BABIP at class A.  The good news is that most of the underlying skill-based stats show a decent player. His strikeout rate isn't bad at 14.1% while his walk percentage is at 6.7%. Overall Widlansky is having a lucky season backed by decent peripherals but definitely deserves a chance to see if he can really improve at the next rung up.  Unfortunately, he plays 1B and the outfield, both positions that require very good hitting so he may never make it to the majors.  In any case I'm interested in seeing how he adjusts to double-A next year.

 

Mathew Angle (CF) is one of our better prospects, consistent year-in and year-out.  As a centerfielder he doesn't need to be a great hitter.  That's good because as he has played tougher competition Angle's walk rate has decreased.  He has managed to cut his strikeout rate this year, but his walk to strikeout ratio has still decreased.  His power is still very minimal which is somewhat worrying. For a player as fast as he is, he should be getting more doubles.  Iit appears that he's using a groundball approach since he has very little power but has a high BABIP at .341.  Interestingly enough, his the two point difference between this year's batting average and last years can be attributed to his BABIP dropping by two points.  I'd expect him to change his approach somewhat as he fills out more and becomes stronger.  He could become our next centerfielder although I'd personally guess that Adam Jones and Felix Pie stay put as our centerfielders.  Unless something significantly changes I can't imagine him not being able to carve out some sort of MLB career.

Pedro Florimon Jr. (SS) seemed to break out earlier this year before coming back down to earth.  One of the key reasons is that Florimon managed to cut his strikeouts to only about 25% of the time instead of the 28+ percent of the time.  Florimon seems to have decent strikezone judgement with about 8.8% of his plate appearances resulting in walks. One of the other things he's done very well this year is add power. This year he's managed a .429 slugging percentage which isn't too shabby for a SS prospect.

Unfortunately he doesn't seem to have the ability to hit for average. As of this writing he's hitting .264 while being somewhat lucky this year with a BABIP of .332.  He seems to be having trouble making contact as fast players normally hit for average.  According to an old 2007 Scouting report he seems to have major trouble recongnizing breaking balls, although does have good strike zone judgement with fastballs.  Florimon may have to change his swing somewhat, probably in his stance in order to ever be a MLB player.  If he learns to recongnize breaking balls he very likely will become a good player.  However expect Florimon to take time to develop that skill.  We may need to resign him to a minor league contract later on in his career and hope he's a late bloomer a la Lou Montanez (speaking of has anybody realized that he's only had 161 ABs in the majors?).  Basically unless he develops into an elite defender like Cizzy expect him to either take a while to develop or become a backup.  Personally, I find Robert Andino a more likley shortstop of the future.  Then again every once in a while he goes on a tear (winning an MILB.com hitter of the week) so he may be closer than I think he is. 

 

If people like this please suggest other players you want to me to take a look at.  I'm planning to take a look at our bullpen prospects the next time, mainly because there seem to be a fair number of them that I don't know and who seem to be legit prospects. Anyway hope everyone likes this.

All stats are from Fangraphs unless noted.

FanPosts are user-created content and do not necessarily reflect the views of the editors of Camden Chat or SB Nation. They might, though.

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nice post

Not much to add, but I enjoyed reading this. I’ve been encouraged to see the success of Waring, who I didn’t know much about as he was in Cincinnati’s system last year.

I am starting to wonder if Ronnie Welty is a better prospect than Angle at this point. As an organization, there continues to be a dearth of positional prospects, though we did graduate two to the big team this year. After Bell and Snyder, I’m not certain who has even a good chance at being more than a major league role player.

I’m not particularly high on any of these guys mostly because I don’t know a lot of the relief type prospects, but I am looking forward to tracking Luis Lebron, Gamboa and Perrault in your next piece (if you want, of course :) ).

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Aug 30, 2009 2:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Gamboa and Perrault

will certainly be there. I think they’re both heading to the AFL which caught my attention. Don’t know Luis Lebron so thanks for that. I’ll take a look at him
If anybody knows how to get Japanese stats for Ryohei Tanaka I’d appreciate that. I’m not sure I can really evaluate a him otherwise.

by OsandRoyals on Aug 30, 2009 6:57 PM EDT reply actions  

http://www.npbtracker.com/2009/02/found-ryohei-tanakas-stats/

"If they pitch to you, make them pay."

--Diamond Dave to the Phenom

by j.q. higgins on Aug 30, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the link

That’ll be useful for the next edition

by OsandRoyals on Aug 30, 2009 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for this

"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer

by Baltimo on Aug 30, 2009 8:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks, very interesting

I am disheartened by both Rowell and Snyder. Early this year, it seemed that Snyder was breaking out. Now, he has come back to earth and it seems unlikely that he will hit enough to become an every day corner outfielder. Rowell has simply been terrible for two years. The Orioles can’t afford to have so many number one picks crater. Loewen, Rowell, and Snyder join a long list of number one busts.

by BaltoBen on Sep 1, 2009 10:35 AM EDT reply actions  

Snyder

He isn’t trying to be an outfielder, he is attempting to be a corner infielder (possibly you meant to say that, not sure). Which still raises the question about his bat…although I wouldn’t call him a ‘bust’ just yet. It takes special efforts to be in the same class as Loewen and Rowell.

by sickuvitall on Sep 1, 2009 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Injuries are different than busts

Loewen probably would have made a decent pitcher except for his injury. No special effort was needed just some unluckyness and poor mechanics.
Rowell seems destined to be traded, hopefully in an exchange of underperforming prospects or for depth

by OsandRoyals on Sep 1, 2009 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Injury vs Bust

You could argue that they are different, however I am of the opinion that if a top prospect fails then they are a bust…no matter what the circumstances. Billy Rowell’s inability to hit professional pitching is different in nature than Adam Loewen’s injuries, however both still failed to have an impact at the big league level. This makes them both busts in my eyes.

by sickuvitall on Sep 3, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Waring

noteworthy that he is crushing it with 26 homers

by b_duardo on Sep 1, 2009 7:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Moneyball

I stand corrected about Snyder’s position. I meant to say corner infielder. Moneyball discusses the draft in which we took Loewen. Lewis, the author, called the Orioles a pathetic franchise as was reflected by the fact that they took a high school pitcher as their number one pick. Actually, I think that Loewen was in junior college, but that is a distinction without a difference. High school pitchers sometimes pan out, but they are very risky. A talent starved team like the Orioles should use its draft choices on college players who have the highest likelihood of success. True, they would miss some great talents like A-Rod, but they would have fewer all-out busts like Rowell, Loewen, and (probably) Snyder.

by BaltoBen on Sep 2, 2009 10:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Well actually...

After Moneyball, there’s been analysis that suggests that prep players tend to have a higher impact than college players in the majors. Verlander is a good example of this, so is Greinke. Torii Hunter was also a high-impact prep draftee.
The problem with prep players is that they take longer to develop and are more likely to bust because of the variance between high school leagues. Teams with very good development systems like the Atlanta Braves are more successful with prep players than college guys.
College players tend to provide quick depth and good players. It’s easier to evaluate them than high schoolers so there’s less risk. However since most of the five tools players get drafted at the prep level, fewer college players are really great

by OsandRoyals on Sep 2, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great post! and some prospect suggestions

Great idea and great post. There’s nothing like looking towards the future when there’s a month left in the season. (seriously, it may be one of the few things that prevents me from jumping off the ledge… to the Nationals…)

Prospects I would like to hear about: Snyder, Montanez, the UVA SS/2B drafted last year, Arrieta, maybe even Bell… you know, the bigger names anticipated to see the pros the next few years

by bigity b on Sep 2, 2009 1:51 PM EDT reply actions  

i agree with you except how long was he in the pros this year? less than a month? How many at-bats does he have in his ‘pro’ career? less than 200?

If we were considering Pie a prospect when we got him and all this year, then I think Montanez qualifies still as one as well….

by bigity b on Sep 3, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pie is substantially younger

I think that makes a big difference in determining if someones a “prospect”

by kba26 on Sep 3, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lou Montanez has a total of 172 plate appearances (at-bats but with walks included). Montanez isn’t a prospect in the traditional sense, he’s relatively old, he’s played in the majors. However he’s special in that he came up as a first-round shortstop in the Cubs farm system, had to move off it at some point (he currently plays a sub-par to adequate left field) and stalled in his seven years with the Cubs. Andy signed him to a minor league contract where it appears somebody helped him revamp his swing because in his second year he had learned to hit well enough to win the league triple crown while spending the last month with the O’s. When somebody wins the triple crown at either Double-A or Triple-A they have a tendency to be pretty good as they’re facing advanced pitching.
Basically he’s been a late bloomer for some reason. It’s been suggested that he allowed his first-round status to get to his head and he ended up with a poor attitude and lazy approach.
Unfortunately I can’t tell much about his progression through the Cubs system because for some reason fangraphs cuts off at 2006. I know he was drafted in 2000.
Aaaand I just found basic stats at the baseball cube. I’ll have to crunch some numbers to figure out his batted balls and his BB and K percentages.
I’ll probably do a more advanced look at Lou Montanez after winter ball this offseason.
Lou Montanez isn’t a full-prospect because he had done so poorly until recently but he does have value and should improve somewhat in the majors whatever position he plays. Pie had a prospect pedigree and was known as the Cubs top prospect until he hit the majors and failed.
For toolsy players a large part of the progress are the adjustments they need to make to produce consistently good at bats with good swings. Both Lou and Pie had to make adjustments to harness their tools

by OsandRoyals on Sep 3, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was a huge

proponent of Lou getting playing time with the big club…in fact I took quite a bit of shit here trying to make my point. I hate to say it, but I think Lou’s injury earlier this year may have spelled disaster for whatever career he had left.

Lou can still hit though!

by sickuvitall on Sep 3, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Minor detail

but Montanez has 3724 profession at-bats. I think maybe you mean major league at-bats…

by O'sFan21 on Sep 3, 2009 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup

172 MLB plate appearances. A ton more professional at bats in the minor leagues.

by OsandRoyals on Sep 7, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Quick Update

I’ve started working on the next post, but I won’t have time until at least wed. It’ll probably be finished fri or over the weekend

by OsandRoyals on Sep 7, 2009 10:50 AM EDT reply actions  

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