What are the O's to do with Felix Pie?
by BKsportstake on Aug 30, 2009 11:34 PM EDT
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The Orioles aren't confronted with many dilemma's they would like to have these days. Usually, they have to figure out which minor leaguer is the best candidate to be promoted in order to replace a struggling player on the big league roster. However, the Orioles are confronted with the opposite situation.
A few months ago, ESPN.com
featured a piece on the O's young outfield (pictured) including Nolan Reimold, Adam Jones, and Nick Markakis. There's no argument that the trio make up one of the best young outfields in the majors. However, what ESPN did not account for at the time is the Orioles new-found depth in the outfield. With Felix Pie's increased playing time and opportunity to prove why he was once the Cubs number one minor league prospect, number 18 has suddenly burst onto the scene as more than just your everyday fourth outfielder.Since his cycle game, Pie is batting .383 going 18 for 47 over that span of 15 games. What's most impressive is that his power numbers are drastically improving in just a short period of time. On August 12, his slugging percentage was stuck at an unimpressive .336. Since then, he's raised his slugging to .457, a 121 point increase in only a couple weeks! It doesn't appear that this recent hot streak is simply a
fluke. A few weeks ago, the O's hitting coach Terry Crowley announced that he helped Pie make his swing more compact. Working hard with Crowley all season, Pie has shown instant improvement which suggests he isn't just getting lucky.So the dilemma the Orioles are in now is what to do with Pie. He's filled his role as the team's fourth outfielder very well but is he beginning to outgrow his role? With Adam Jones return to the lineup after a mild back injury, Pie is back on the bench except for Sunday games and the occasional spot start. I would expect Trembley to start letting Pie play more often than he has in the past. However, Nolan Reimold earned his spot in left field months ago so how does Pie factor into the O's future? I understand that Pie needs to prove himself over a longer stretch of time but it wouldn't surprise me if the Orioles have four legitimate young outfielders by the time the off-season rolls around.
Is it feasible to let Nolan Reimold take a shot at playing first base during spring training next year? He's only played one game at first in his professional career but the Orioles have been successful at converting players in the past. Melvin Mora was brought up as an outfielder and they were able to develop him into a solid third baseman, one of the hardest positions on the field. The Orioles gave Luke Scott, a career outfielder, an opportunity to play first base this season and he's filled in adequately for Huff's vacancy.
Or is it more f
easible to let go of someone like Luke Scott in order to allow Reimold to be the DH next year? As much as I like Luuuuke Scott and his scorching hot streaks, I wouldn't be opposed to seeing him go. In the past, I would've been completely against trading Scott because he is only 31 and seems to have a decent number of productive years left. He also recently signed a contract extension. However, two or three years from now, do you see the 34 year old Luke Scott playing a bigger role than Nolan Reimold or Felix Pie in the O's future? Or would you be ok with developing Nolan Reimold only as a DH when he's proven he can field?Andy MacPhail has stressed that the Orioles should have an inventory of young players. I couldn't agree more but at some point, the O's need to distribute their wealth and surplus of young players at certain positions in order to fill holes in the roster where perhaps they don't have players waiting in the wings. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the Orioles don't have incredible depth in their minor league system at first base. How about we give Reimold a shot at first and go from there?
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I'm up for Reimold at first
If he doesn’t work out there I like pie lf, jones cf, markakis right reimold dh and trade Scott or keep him at first but I like Aubrey there for now
Hey guys, I have an Orioles blog so check it out. I write about news and the Oriole's farm teams and prospects.
www.snaorioles.com
by Jordan Tuwiner on Aug 31, 2009 1:33 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Great post
It is indeed something to think about this off-season. I wouldn’t mind shopping Scott and trying Nolan at first base. If that doesn’t work or if Brandon Snyder develops into MLB caliber we can always DH Reimold and use him as back up for the corner OF spots.
Reimold to first, I'm down
I do wonder if Reimold has the bat to play firstbase. I wonder if he has the glove to play left, that’s for sure. But you figure with his ability to draw walks and hit the ball out of the ball park, he could be a decent enough firstbaseman.
Felix Pie is quite the wildcard in all this. I think it’s too early to tell what to make of him, really. However, he struggles against lefties, but he has been scorching against righties (OPS against righties 814 (sample size 161 ABs though)). At only age 24 it’s too early to pigeon hole him, especially with his minor league resume. And he was awful in April, very good since then in limited spots due to Reimold getting majority of playing time in LF. I think he could be a decent platoon guy whose ability to play the OF well will give him a good chunk of ABs over the years.
I’d like to see Reimold play first and OF…first against righties (allowing Pie to play LF) and left against southpaws (allowing Pie to not make outs). The downside in this is that it might be too early to not give Pie the chance to develop his skills against lefties.
I’d also like to see Scott traded for a young SS. Scott has been great for this team, and it is really too bad he can’t platoon with Pie.
Librarians are hiding something
Does that mean you think Pie has the glove to play left?
The guy has been a disaster, albeit a super-speedy one, in left this year. Regularly taking bad angles to balls, throwing to the wrong base, etc… The rumor is that he just doesn’t instinctively understand the game. Reimold on the other hand seems to have no such affliction.
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Aug 31, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I think it's too early to say
Pie did make some mistakes early on but he’d never played LF before in his life. I think you’d have to see what he can do out there and considering how well he’s played CF I think it’s likely he’d get it together, provided he can keep his head in the game.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Pie's glove
I think he has shown that he can handle center, at least he did in Chicago. I would hope that it can translate. From what I’ve seen with Reimold, he seems to take rather uneven routes to the ball. But I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder!
Librarians are hiding something
Hasn't been a disaster at all in LF
He looked shaky the first week or two of the season, but his UZR in LF this year is 5.8 which is very good for only playing about a third of a season there. His UZR/150 is 17.1
I gave up on Pie long ago, but it looks like I was wrong. And while I don’t know if his bat is really going to be as good as it has been the last couple months, I don’t think his defense in LF will be an issue.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Sep 2, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
I think UZR is dogshit period
But even the folks below who like it say that it’s completely worthless over the short term. Pie has looked like shit in the field.
But even the folks below who like it say that it’s completely worthless over the short term.
It’s not completely worthless over the short term. It’s just not reliable indicator of “true” talent just like a month’s data of hitting statistics are not a reliable indicator of “true” talent of hitting ability. If you don’t like UZR, cool, but at least give a reason beyond it doesn’t confirm by preconceived beliefs.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
I really don't understand how you can say that Felix Pie is bad in left field
He started off poorly, but his defense is not a liability at this point. . .
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
I was talking about Luke Scott last year.
I haven’t seen Pie make any real bad plays lately, but he looks pretty cautious out there a good amount of the time. Definitely not a natural fielder.
The answer to your question is: play him
With Adam Jones return to the lineup after a mild back injury, Pie is back on the bench except for Sunday games and the occasional spot start.
That’s not true. With Aubrey Huff gone and Luke learning first base, you have the opportunity to give Pie ABs that would have gone to Wiggy or Mora. Trembley said in his press conference the other day that they told Felix that with the trade of Huff he’d be getting a big increase in playing time. With Luke playing 1B you can play Reimold at LF/DH, Jones at CF/DH, and Pie at any of those positions.
I do think it’d be a good idea to try Reimold at first along with Scott, though. I mean, why not? In the offseason you might look to trade one of Reimold/Scott/Pie but I don’t think it’s necessary if you can’t get something valuable back.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
a bit of a pessimist...
but i also think reimold and jones will have their fair share of DL time/games lost to dings, as well.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Aug 31, 2009 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Especially AJ. He seems to be that kind of dude. After he missed that catch yesterday and banged into the wall he kept rubbing his neck and I was like “Tell me he didn’t hurt himself AGAIN.” It’s a good thing we’ve got Nick over in right field. He never gets hurt.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Things that are not good to say in a baseball
“Oh he has a perfect game going…”
“Oh he has a no hitter going…”
“Oh he never gets hurt….” (Ripken being an exception)
I’m hate superstition, but jinxes always make me nervous.
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't believe in superstition or jinxes
sorry dude, but to appease you I shall amend it to say, “So far Nick hasn’t gotten hurt, which has worked out well for the team.” Better?
Seriously, though, you never even hear about Nick being banged up the way you do other guys. I’m not saying he doesn’t get that way, it’s just funny how you never, ever hear anything about him in that department.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I guess I am superstious
When I played poker my chips had to be stacked a certain way. For football games I wear the same shit, jersey and hat for every game. Baseball I don’t mention the above statements with a few other things in there.
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Who predicted this?
Right now, Pie is making a case for time over both Jones and Reimold, well, particularly against RHP. Reimold is motoring around on a broken wheel, and Jones is slumping/pressing. Pie has stepped up and made the case he should get some time to prove he can stick (or not) next year.
jones...
really looked awful at the plate yesterday. his timing was way off.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Aug 31, 2009 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
If AJ is nursing some kinks, why should he get time over Pie?
Felix is undoubtedly the better option right now, and although I realize that AJ is likely the better long-term option, he shouldn’t be forced in there.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Jones is our
everyday CF. Any type of ‘benching’ now, unless to heal up physically, would be detrimental to his psyche. Let him work through this, play Pie in LF, and DH Reimold since he has like 12 minor injuries.
Truth
Because its not like wins and losses matter that much right now. Jones is the future at CF for this team, not Pie (that sounds harsh, but don’t get me wrong I am liking Pie right now). If anything I think Pie and Reimold should be splitting time in LF/DH as long as Pie is hitting like this.
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Jones if the future at CF for this team, not Pie
I don’t see how anyone can say that definitively.
Pie is probably better defensively than Jones, and Felix has a good chance of posting a higher OPS than Adam this year.
I understand that Pie is surging and AJ is slumping, but the numbers are what they are.
Again, in all likelihood Jones is the better CF, but there is definitely an argument for putting Felix in center, shifting Jones over to left, and letting Reimold DH.
Whether it’s AJ’s added bulk, his “shallow” strategy, or just inferior skills, I do think that Felix is the better defender.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Pie is probably better defensively than Jones
Uhhh what? What leads you to believe that? Jones makes much smarter throws and he has a stronger arm than Pie.
Keep in mind that Pie’s number are based on not playing day in and day out. Player’s are much more likely to slump when they play longer stints. If Pie keeps it up for the rest of the year with his increased time in the line-up, than maybe he is the better batter. But based on limited appearances I think its hard to crown him the better hitter.
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Pie has nearly played 90 games, and his UZR remains consistent
And his baseball “smarts” will likely improve as he gets more playing time.
I never said that Pie is definitively the better hitter, just that there is an argument for Felix possibly being the better hitter in the future. I simply object to Adam being unquestionably the better hitter now and forever.
Felix is faster than Adam, and thus has better range. Furthermore, Pie doesn’t allow nearly as many balls to go over his head as Jones.
AJ has a cannon, but I’ll take a guy who can cover more ground anyway.
My idea is just to shift Adam over to left, where his arm will be better served as he’ll actually have a shot at throwing runners out.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Yeah he has been in 83 games
But not really played entirely in all of those games. He had a lot of PHs and PRs. You are still looking at a small sample size of ABs at 144, which is about a third of his career ABs. It is still a relatively small sample size to be comparing him to a guy who has 465 ABs and has played nearly ever game. Pie could just as likely drop off into a slump as likely as he is to regularly hit this well (of course I’d hope for the latter, but I am just making an argument). Although you are right, Jones is note definitely the best hitter now and forever, but he should not be benched right now to Pie.
Maybe down the road you are right, Pie might get smarter in the OF and make better throws. However, as it stands right now he is a bigger liability out there than Jones’ “shallow” strategy.
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Your point about the PHs is a good one
And I overlooked that, but I maintain that Felix is just as toolsy as Adam, has more range than Jones, and could feasibly put up a higher career OBP even if his SLG% is lower.
I also don’t think that it’s just speculation to say that Felix will get smarter in the outfield as his defense has, in my opinion, dramatically improved since the beginning of the year.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
I think Jones is a much better natural athlete with MUCH better baseball instincts.
Pie is pretty awkward looking in the OF even though he’s fast. I don’t think at any point he will be a better OF than Jones. Some baseball instincts can be learned, but not all of them and being a naturally graceful and effective OF is not one of them. You can see he stutter steps every time the ball is hit to him where as Jones just naturally drifts in the right direction. You can’t learn that.
But its just as feasible that Jones could have a better career OBP than Pie. Just being fast does not solve every problem. Guesstimating on what someone could do is just that, a guess. Right now Jones has showed he can hit with good numbers for a lengthy period of time. Until Pie is consistent for another month I am not ready to claim he is going to be the best or better anything. I’ll stick with Jones for now.
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
They have very similar MiL numbers
And Pie is on pace to finish with better numbers defensively and offensively than Jones this year. Isn’t that the “right now?”
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
better numbers my ass
pie did not play a full season. danys baez is on pace to lead the orioles in BA and OPS.
by twistedlogic on Aug 31, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
danys baez is on pace to lead the orioles in BA and OPS.
I don’t understand why you’d waste your time posting if you have nothing to contribute at all.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
that was exactly the point
showing you how ridiculous your argument is
by twistedlogic on Aug 31, 2009 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
k
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
plus it IS a true statement
i mean really! :-)
by twistedlogic on Aug 31, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude
I said a million times you cannot compare the two. Playing a complete season is completely different than pinch hitting for the majority of the season. Jones has nearly double the ABs of Pie. Batting sort of becomes like flipping a coin, generally the higher you go is when you see the true averages. You just cannot compare them right now.
Have you ever heard the term small sample size? That applies. I wish I knew the numbers of how many times Jones has started at OF compared to Pie. Its astronomically different. No shit Jones has worse defensive numbers, because he has had more time to make mistakes. Your argument of comparing the two is quite silly at this point in time.
by John Stephens on Sep 1, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions
fwiw...
adam jones has started 117 games this season, pie has started 83. jones has had 362 chances in the outfield, pie 117.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Sep 1, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not disagreeing with the fact that Pie has played less
But Jones didn’t really impress last year, and his number this season after May aren’t anything special. That’s all.
See my post below outlining his splits.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
I saw his splits
But you can do the same thing for Pie and show how the beginning of his year was abysmal. All baseball players go through up and downs, even the great ones. Puljols went through one after the ASB.
I sincerely doubt that Pie will hit like this for the rest of his career. He is just having a big up at the same time Jones is having a big down.
Jones is still young, just like Pie, they are both only going to improve. I am not sure why you are citing last years performance. So can we then say Wieters is a bust because his numbers are not what everyone expected? No, because he is young and still getting the swing of the majors. His last year’s performance is not the most relevant at such a young age.
As much as you say I am pro-Jones bias, you are just as much pro-Pie bias.
by John Stephens on Sep 1, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
“His last year’s performance” meaning Jones, not Wieters.
by John Stephens on Sep 1, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
If Matt Wieters smacks the ball around in April - May
And becomes an all-star, yet posts a sub-.760 OPS for the year, then I won’t say that he is a bust, but I’ll regard him in the same manner as Jones in that Matt will still need to prove himself before I assume that we have an absolute stud catcher for the next decade like people are assuming that we have an absolute stud center fielder for the next decade.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Well we are going to have to disagree then
You can ride the Pie bus, but I am sticking with Jones.
by John Stephens on Sep 1, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly though
If Matt posts a sub-.770ish OPS, which is adjusted for a catcher, then wouldn’t you hesitate to anoint him considering Wieters’ entire body of work?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Uh no, speed does not equal range.
lookout landing - banning people for no reason since 2009
by bigdickwillie on Sep 1, 2009 5:46 AM EDT up reply actions
What are you talking about?
Where do you get the idea that pie is faster than jones in the first place? And even if that was true, that doesn’t necessarily mean that he has more range. We have seen Pie take bad routes to the ball in left field all year, which affects his range. Range is not determined only by the speed of the player, but his ability to get to the batted ball the quickest. Jones is second in the league amongst qualified center fielders in Range Factor (only .03 pints behind the leader) and 2nd in putouts. Also Jones leads center fielders in outfield assists! I can see where you might have a small case offensively as to who could end up being more consistent, but defensively, its a no brainer. Jones is a stud
Even ESPN recognized
the efforts of Jones last week. Anytime an Oriole gets more that 3 seconds of airtime on Boston’s leading sports network, it is serious!
I'm incorporating positioning and speed into the broad category of "range"
So although Pie admittedly doesn’t have the best instincts, with time I think his first step will develop which would only complement his already superior speed and positioning.
I understand that a player’s placement on the field can be shifted, but Felix has never had a problem with this; his weakness is just the initial read.
I believe Felix is faster than AJ, though. . .
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Superior positioning?
Is this a knock on AJ for playing shallow? If so do you have some stats or something to back up the argument that Pie playing deeper is preferential to AJ playing shallower? Otherwise I’m not buying it.
Pie has a significantly higher UZR for a reason
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
You have established that. A lot of people still have a respect for UZR.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
Regardless – if you say Pie is a better fielding than AJ because of their respective UZRs, I’m going to include you in the group that uses batting average to compare hitters.
UZR is reliable over a huge sample size
Any player can have a higher or lower UZR for a season and it doesn’t mean they are overall a better or worse player. Also UZR is relative to the other position players in the league, so if you have a bunch of shitty CFs one year, your “average” CF will have a higher UZR. It took me awhile to understand UZR, but now I respect it.
Earl Weaver would’ve kissed Adam Dunn on the mouth in public. - SC 08/11/08
While she may be arguing with me that UZR is a valid statistic (and honestly I still won’t respect it as long as it claims that Luke Scott is a good defender – maybe that’s my problem), but she’s also saying that it’s only useful over a huge sample size – something that Pie has not provided.
I wasn't arguing with anyone
I was just saying. As far as Luke, if you look at his career numbers, it doesn’t say he’s a bad defender or a necessarily good one. He’s pretty middle of the road, which is something I agree with. He’s not a butcher out there after all.
Earl Weaver would’ve kissed Adam Dunn on the mouth in public. - SC 08/11/08
Which defensive stats would you like me to provide, then?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
I citied UZR
And you discredited the stat.
It’s a lose-lose for me as there is obviously not a statistic that rates a player’s positioning.
Are we going to call out people on every single observation that can’t be backed up with numbers?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
If it's an observation that doesn't jive with EVERYBODY else's observation then yes.
You’re the first person I’ve ever heard try to say that Pie is better defensively than AJ and quite frankly it’s a little ridiculous.
Then I also wasn’t sure where you got the idea that Pie is better positioned than AJ. A lot of people bitch about AJ playing too shallow, but I don’t see it and it annoys me so that’s why I called it out.
If it’s an observation that doesn’t jive with EVERYONE else’s observation
A lot of people bitch about AJ playing too shallow, but I don’t see it
Huh?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Anyway
I just think that Jones would be better served in left field where he would get more opportunities to throw people out with his stronger gun.
Also, AJ has added bulk which has reduced his range, whereas Felix is speedy and can cover the whole outfield with a bit of development.
For these reasons, I think Felix is better in center with AJ in LF.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Forget about the bulk comment if you want
That is speculation, but I think it’s quite noticeable.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
it's not speculation
it was well documented that AJ put on muscle in the offseason
"The single best thing any rebuilding manager can do, ever, is trade a relief pitcher in late July for a couple of solid prospects."
— Rob Neyer, July 30, 2009
You’re the first person I’ve ever heard try to say that Pie is better defensively than AJ and quite frankly it’s a little ridiculous.
I remember people RAVED about Pie’s defensive skills over at baseballthinkfactory before he showed up in BAL.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
that's absolutely ridiculous
anyone RAVING over pie’s defensive capabilities clearly did not watch him play in chicago regardless of how few opportunities he got there.
Well, that’s the thing about these qualitative measures. You see one thing, another person see another thing, and then there’s no way to adjudicate who’s on better empirical ground.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
NOBODY other than him (and maybe you) sees a good centerfielder in FP and a LF in AJ. EVERYBODY has been raving for 2 years now about how good AJ is in CF. So while it might be qualitative, it’s not nearly as ambiguous as you describe above.
Like I said, I remember when we got Pie, the people over at BBT raved about his defense. You hear one thing, I hear another. It’s no biggie.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
you dont seem to use the right sources
“the people over at BBT” raving about his defense are on drugs
Also
I doubt that if there was a major problem with AJ’s positioning, it wouldnt be mentioned and improved by the coaching staff. How many times have we seen AJ make running catches near the wall? obviously he has proved that he can afford to play shallow (if he even is playing too shalow). What are you basing your opinion on pie being faster than AJ on? He has only 1 stolen base, and Has been cought 3 times? Meanwhile AJ has 10 stolen bases, and has been cought 4 times. Did you time each of them in 40 yard dashes or something? because other than that, i dont see how you could get the idea that he is faster
How many times have we seen AJ make running catches near the wall?
There lies a huge problem. Because Adam Jones makes Sportscenter top 10 catches, people assume that he is the better overall fielder.
He has only 1 stolen base, and Has been cought 3 times? Meanwhile AJ has 10 stolen bases, and has been cought 4 times.
Stealing more bases doesn’t mean that you’re faster, it just means that you’re better at stealing bases.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
I like how you completely skimmed by her valid point that AJ is there to make those catches at the wall and they aren’t going over his head. Nice strategy.
by John Stephens on Sep 1, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't I clearly disagree with that?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
No
You just said people think he is good simply because he makes wall grabs. You did not address the fact that she discredited you claiming he plays shallow because he routinely makes catches at the wall.
by John Stephens on Sep 1, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
If you are assuming
that my opinion on Jones being a better fielder is strictly based on sportscenter top plays, then you are clearly mistaken, because as i stated in my first reply, he is second in the LEAGUE in range factor, and first in outfield assists. Also, you still did not answer my question on what you are basing your opinion on pie being faster on. If you are going to state that stealing more bases doesnt make you faster, than you need to tell me what DOES make him faster. Otherwise, you are only getting around the point
I just think he is faster
Can we somehow test this?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
UZR is totally bullshit
who the fuck cares that somebody’s UZR is better one year than it is the next. Look! Nick Markakis’ UZR is down from last year! His defense must be getting shitty!
3 year’s of UZR data equals 1 year of batting data. To say that someone has 1 year of bad defensive performance based on UZR is like writing someone off with 2 bad months at the plate.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
this has come up before
i remember distinctly somebody posting about his UZR changing and how we’re all disappointed and all that jazz. frankly i think that stat is totally bullshit. there are statistics that actually measure something and there are statistics created by people who have nothing better to do. UZR is the latter. proof: luke scott and felix pie. neither of them have good defensive skills but have better UZRs than players that are MUCH better defensively.
neither of them have good defensive skills
I mean that’s just 100% speculation.
Where are we going here?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
I mean that’s just 100% speculation.
Where are we going here?
Exactly, they want to go by their personal evaluation. THAT’S FINE. For those who want to use a different metric, let’s just ignore these comments. The two camps should just speak to each other rather than engaging in pointless sniping.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
what else are we gonna do?
this is a hell of a lot more fun than linear statistical models and other lame shit that i work on
Cool brother.
BTW, this type of discussion needs to be added to the rules.
There are some people here who do not like defensive statistics. There are some people who do like defensive statistics. Instead of rehashing the same tired conversation of:
Poster A: Player X’s UZR is excellent
Poster B: UZR is garbage.
Can we just accept that certain people believe in certain metrics, if you don’t believe in that metric, just move on.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
What the hell is wrong with commenting on the validity of a statistic??? Is it set in stone somewhere???
Add it to the rules???? Please.
Because the conversation goes nowhere… at least for defensive statistics. If you want to argue other types of metrics, that’s fine. But defensive stats have been beaten to death here.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
I sort of agree with that
It’s sort of like discussing politics or religion. Nobody’s going to change their mind. Some people like discussing things like that, I’m not a huge fan. If people want to, I’m cool with it. I usually stay out of it is all.
Earl Weaver would’ve kissed Adam Dunn on the mouth in public. - SC 08/11/08
I don’t know that it goes nowhere – if somebody could put together a good argument about UZR, for example, I might be convinced of it’s validity – which be a very itneresting place for the conversation to go. But so far whenever I criticize it’s validity, by pointing out ridiculous UZR ratings, the people defending it just say that I’m not statistically oriented or whatever. Not really a convincing argument.
agreed
i’m in the same boat. i think its completely useless and is completely wrong if it says pie is better defensively than jones
‘m not saying both of guys are wrong, but it help to know why you think it’s wrong. Right now it seems like you only like defensive statistics when they confirm your preexisting beliefs.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
No
they only like statistics when they portray an ACCURATE aspect of the game. Which is how everyone should view stats
accurate of what? of 2 weeks performance? of what’s the player’s true talent is? For example, a player who hits an OPS+ of 25 in a 2 week span sucked balls, but I don’t think that 2 week span is indicator of a his true level of talent, nor is it predictive of future performance.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
Youre only proving my point
i said people should only value statistics when they portray an accurate aspect of the game. So your little example only proved exactly what i was saying
I don’t know that it goes nowhere – if somebody could put together a good argument about UZR, for example,
The guy who created UZR actually put together a huge ass rant defending his work recently. If I can find it, I’ll link it. Basically, he’s pissed because people are complaining that UZR only sees Texiera as an average fielder this season which was leading to all types of ill founded conclusions.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
thats exactly it
good fielders seem to have lower UZR ratings on a regular basis. if you’ve followed these threads, i HATE UZR and haven’t agreed with it even when it confirms my existing beliefs.
I think I might have read the same thing
If I did, it definitely supports the statistic as his argument is quite convincing.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Post away! I'll happily read and be convinced.
But i’ve seen sheeeeeeeyit to convince me so far. Anybody who has watched Pie and Jones this year consistently knows that any statistic indicating Pie is a better defender is seriously flawed at best.
First read this.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/seeing-and-uzr-and-teixeira/
Then here’s Mitchel Lichtman, the creator of UZR, recent rants collated onto one page.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/mgls-recent-musings/
UZR is not a perfect measure (but hey there are rarely perfect measures), but I think it does have value in the sense that it can tell you something meaningful in a rigorous fashion.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
choice quotes from Lichtman
I just skimmed through those links in the second fangraph link. Good stuff. I wouldn’t bother reading the last post on John Smoltz but the first four links are good, although the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th links kind of get bogged in technical talk. But here some choice quotes.
And forget about the notion that “the eye” is mightier than the spreadsheet.
“People who say, ‘I watch him all of the time,’ that’s a false assertion,” Lichtman said. “Human observation is terrible at quantifying things. That’s why we have statistics.”
Word booty.
Here’s a small note on sample size and why you need 3 years of data to get a sense of a player’s “true” level of defensive ability.
Measuring defense has challenged sabermetricians since the advent of statistical analysis. More than anything, Lichtman said, the problem is the small sample size. A hitter usually tallies four-plus plate appearances per game. Whereas a first baseman will get, on average, 1.8 chances per game.
And if you want Lichtman’s explanation for why player x isn’t doing so hot when he did well last year, here’s his answer condensed into a short blurb.
OK, getting back to how you should think of these numbers – as just numbers – and then you can make some inferences using those numbers, if it suits your needs and/or your fancy. We have our _10 player and if we want to we can say that our best estimate is that he is a pretty good defender. In fact, of all +10 UZR players, maybe 70% of them will be +5 or or next year, and 10% of them will be 0 or less. Just numbers. That’s all.
Now, the next year he is -10. Instead of that 911 call, it still means nothing. Just numbers. We now have a player that is zero after 2 years. More reliable data because we have 2 years rather than one. I am thrilled. Do I care that he was a +10 one year and a -10 the next year? Absolutely, positively not! I don’t even remember that he WAS a +10. I only know that he was zero in his last 2 years (or only 2 years if I have no more data). So if I want to make an inference now for whatever reasons, it is that he is an average defensive player. After last year, I thought there was a pretty good chance that he was a good one. Now I "changed my mind" because I have more data. So what? Doesn’t mean anything to me that he was a +10 last year and a -10 this year (OK, if you want to get sophisticated on me, you can do some adjustments if you think he may have been injured in his -10 year or he learned some new defensive technique in his +10 year or some such thing – and of course, technically you should weight the two years to account for changes in true talent as time goes on). Absolutely nothing.
That is how you should think of these things.
And if I ever read or hear a question like that (“How could so-and-so be a +9 this year and a -11 last year?”) again, I am going to scream and write another diatribe…
Golf clap.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
"Just numbers"
Will turn some people off, but I get it.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Hate to exaggerate to make a point..
but I will anyway. You don’t sit Cal Ripken because he has a bad week, and you don’t bench Michael Jordan because he had a bad week..
No matter how good Felix Pie can possibly be, I think everyone is pretty much sure that Adam Jones is absolutely the real deal.
I'm not jumping on you
But that is a pretty absurd analogy, and you must know it.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Its not an absurd analogy
Why would you bench the only All-Star on your team (with consistent numbers over the entire year) over a guy who is having one good month? That’s a bit drastic, and you must know it.
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
AJ’s line last year – .270/.311/.399
AJ’s line in April/March of this year – .359/.433/.628
AJ’s line in May of this year – .333/.369/.590
AJ’s line in June of this year – .229/.286/.323
AJ’s line in July of this year – .270/.324/.440
AJ’s line in August of this year – .209/.289/.337
Yes, Adam was an all-star, but to discredit Felix’s hot streak and praise Jones for his is not fair.
Adam had a hot streak when the AS votes were being counted, and he hasn’t done much of anything. In fact, he has performed quite poorly.
I’m not saying that AJ isn’t going to be a great player for us for a decade, but there is a decent chance that he churns out a career .800 OPS, which makes the idea of Pie outhitting him viable.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
It would be a waste of talent
to DH jones, even if its only once a week. He is playing a gold glove type center field this year and if you put him on the bench you are neutralizing his defensive abilities. I think this is the time to give pie at bats so he can show what he can do in hopes of boosting his trade market in the off season. I don’t think there are many teams that wouldn’t take a look at a 24 year old that has tremendous upside and has shown he can play center field. If he continues to be productive throughout these last weeks of the season, he could garner some serious trade interest in the off season which the orioles could use to get a first baseman.
If Adam is still banged up
It makes sense to DH him every now and then.
Earl Weaver would’ve kissed Adam Dunn on the mouth in public. - SC 08/11/08
Pew Pew Pee-ay to 3rd?
Orioles have been successful at converting players in the past. Melvin Mora was brought up as an outfielder and they were able to develop him into a solid third baseman, one of the hardest positions on the field.
I think Melvin would consider it a mark of Respect that the O’s would select his successor in teh same manner he himself was picked? no?
ok.. I just wanted to write Pew Pew Pee-ay. :)
didn't melvin start as a SS?
he played short for the mets and played short for us after we traded mike bordick for him. he only went to CF after bordick was resigned in the off-season.
by twistedlogic on Aug 31, 2009 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Pie is left-handed
You should know these sorts of things about the team you follow.
"I hate making excuses. If I suck, then I suck. And I suck. That's the way I'm playing. If you suck, you suck. You have to take responsibility in this game. Right now, that's the way I feel. Yes, I suck." - Jose Guillen/quote of the year
So, that's a bad thing fo 3B?
:)
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
Pie never should have been cut out of the damn lineup
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
by Baltimo on Aug 31, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
So what would have happened with Reimold then?
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
As mathgeek just stated
Trembley/MacPhail benched Pie for Montanez.
Even still, Reimold had been held down for a long, long ass time in the minors anyway, so keeping him in Norfolk for another two months would have been completely and totally acceptable.
Was Nolan going anywhere? If he kept hitting, great. If not, then he probably didn’t deserve an early promotion anyway.
Conversely, Pie didn’t have the option of being sent down, and there was absolutely nowhere for him to play outside of left field when benched, so sitting him basically meant that he would not get any more ABs.
We KNEW FOR A FACT that Pie would struggle initially, but the entire idea of bringing in Felix was to give him an extended look in a no-pressure situation, but instead, Pie was quickly examined and then discarded like a piece of trash.
I absolutely love what MacPhail has done, but that move was monumentally stupid, and it still looks that way today.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
by Baltimo on Aug 31, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think I'm done arguing this
Felix is on the verge of surpassing AJ, and his benching still seems acceptable? I’m not targeting you, but I don’t understand how that move can’t be criticized.
Pie wasn’t sat down to get some quality reps in with Crowley while squeezing some ABs in as a pinch hitter, he was benched because the O’s were impatient and didn’t want to deal with him anymore.
Trembley literally refused to play Felix for two months.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Of course the move can be criticized
but you implied that Reimold wasn’t ready for his call up and I think that’s absurd.
You assumed too much
Because that is not what was was implied.
My point was that Nolan may have been ready, but what was the purpose of bringing in Felix if he wasn’t going to get a shot?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Oh I agree with that.
But I’m not unhappy with what his benching resulted in. Sometimes guys get the shaft and in this case I think Pie got the shaft, but it worked out for the team in that we learned that Nolan was ready to contribute and now Pie is coming around in his new role. I think it all worked out fine.
Just stop.
Under that logic, Nolan Reimold never gets his starts. And how would that have benefited the team, when we never would have discovered an even better player than Pie? Please don’t embarrass yourself further by saying Pie has had a better season than Reimold. It would be like slowing down to watch a car crash on my part.
I won’t drag up Pie’s April numbers to prove the absolute lack of factual basis upon which you form your argument, but they were HORRIBLE for SIX WEEKS. Yes, those were superfluous caps, deal with it.
Pie needed to be benched. He needed to work with The Crow. And he’s earning his redemption.
But to argue he never should have been benched is engaging in the most dishonest sort of revisionist history imaginable in the realm of sports. And yes, that statement is almost ridiculous as suggesting Pie never should have been benched. Almost.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
And yes, I know Pie was initially benched for Montanez
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
Should I even respond to this?
I mean honestly.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
felix pie is on the verge of surpassing AJ?
what? really?
hes got 180-some ABs. AJ has over 450. no way you can compare that.
by twistedlogic on Aug 31, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
But to argue he never should have been benched is engaging in the most dishonest sort of revisionist history imaginable in the realm of sports.
Do you even follow baseball?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Apparently more than you do
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
I like how completely and totally antagonistic you are
I’ll respond to the post later.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Did someone steal
your account name? Possibly login as Baltimo and leave a bunch of jibberish behind? This is way out of character…
I just disagree with two things
1.) Pie should have been benched
2.) Adam Jones is “our only all-star who is just going through a small slump.”
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Plus
you’re fiercely loyal to Pie no matter what.
Earl Weaver would’ve kissed Adam Dunn on the mouth in public. - SC 08/11/08
I won't deny this at all
But I resent the fact that I’m being slammed because of the fact that I have a different point of view.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
too many facts
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Your beimng slammed
for having an almost indefensible point of view. There’s a difference.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
I've stated that Pie is on pace to post a higher OPS
Others have stated that the sample size is too small. I don’t disagree, but merely think that there is more to the Pie vs. Jones argument than just saying “Adam Jones is better. Period.”
How is my point of view ridiculous and indefensible?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
I haven’t follow every post of this conversation but Baltimo’s defense of Pie is completely warranted. Pie OPS+: 103. Jones OPS+ 105. Jones was hot initially then cooled. Pie was cold initially then heated up. Jones has twice as many as ABs though (469 ABs vs 184 ABs). Jones is our CF for now but his hold shouldn’t be a given.
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
Jones was hot initially then cooled. Pie was cold initially then heated up.
This is what I’m trying to say.
People are quick to regard Jones in all-star terms, but immediately note that Felix’s streak is an aberration.
They’ve both had streaks, and the numbers are what they are.
I don’t disagree with Pie’s sample size being small, but I’m just pointing out that Jones isn’t the unquestionably better player for the future.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
it's not indefensible.
while i disagree with Baltimo, he could easily argue that Pie, getting his ABs the entire year long, might now be an excellent everyday LF. His hypothetical offensive stats in that case might be better than Riemold’s current ones. His defensive stats would certainly be. And Reimold might be developing into an amazing 4th OF and/or trade bait. Maybe in that scenario we trade Reimold at the break for Chone Figgins. Who the fuck knows?
But you can’t argue that the only way Felix could have improved was to be demoted, sit on the bench, and work with Crow for half a season. Particularly YOU duck, who has not been bashful about slamming Terry Crowley.
Again, it’s not a POV I agree with, but it is certainly a valid one.
"The single best thing any rebuilding manager can do, ever, is trade a relief pitcher in late July for a couple of solid prospects."
— Rob Neyer, July 30, 2009
I humbly submit
that Terry Crowley may be the best thing that ever happened to Felix Pie. There’s certainly no denying the improvement.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
Hmmm
Was he or was he not our only all-star? Is he or is he not going through a small slump?
Both of those seem like facts.
Without trying to sound catty
Do you not understand what I mean?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
a guy is hitting below .200
sounds like a fairly good reason to bench him. if he had options, he wouldn’t have even been in the majors.
Why was he brought in, then?
For immediate production? Didn’t MacPhail say that Pie would be given time to work his kinks out unlike his stint with Chicago?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
felix pie was brought in for the exact same reason rich hill was brought in
macphail wanted his old draft picks from chicago
Honestly, I don't think he did say that
Some analysts said at the time that this was a good move for the O’s because we gave up junk and got a project in return. Analysts said that the O’s could give him a shot where as the Cubs couldn’t, but if I remember correctly MacPhail never said Pie would be give time to work out his kinks. In fact, he said there were no promises made and he wouldn’t even guarantee that Pie would be the starting LF’er.
I think the main reason he was brought in was his price was Garett Olson.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Sep 2, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I remember that we had this conversation when Pie was benched
MacPhail did say something along the lines of Pie getting a good, long look.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Right, we did
And I don’t think either of us were able to find anything where MacPhail said that he would be given the start all year, or would be given time to work out his kinks.
I know guys like Buck Martinez said it was a good move and the Orioles would allow him to start all year, but thats not MacPhail.
Although, you were right, looks like I gave up on Pie too early
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Sep 2, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a bit busy now
But I’ll try to find some quotes later.
If I remember correctly, MacPhail said something along the lines of Pie getting an extended look without actually saying it, so maybe I was making an assumption.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
i htink the words were something like
“Felix Pie will be given every opportunity to win the job in left field”
"The single best thing any rebuilding manager can do, ever, is trade a relief pitcher in late July for a couple of solid prospects."
— Rob Neyer, July 30, 2009
And I disagree with both your disagreements
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
If he keeps hitting like this
and he can take a walk, I’d put up this lineup:
Bob
Pie
Nick
Jones
Reimold
Wieters
etc
I like to think that his routes to balls will improve as he transitions to LF, with steady consistent work. He’ll probably become a better LF than Reimold, who I would look at moving to 1B. I dunno what to do with Luuke at this point.
"I hate seeing Bedard go, but I think the O's may have gotten the better end of the deal" -- me, 2/8/08
I am starting
to feel like Luke’s streaky hitting is just too much to deal with. It is really extreme.
That line-up has the future written all over it. Now if we could only find a 3B who can hit.
by John Stephens on Aug 31, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
in 12 months
the regular lineup could be:
Roberts, 2B
Pie, LF
Markakis, RF
Jones, CF
Wieters, C
Reimold, 1B
Scott, DH
Bell, 3B
Izturis, SS
That ain’t all that bad…
Librarians are hiding something
i agree with most of you
pie at left
nolo at dh
luke traded
new aubrey 1b
"All major leaguers can see the ball and hit it. But what separates the great ones is that they can see the ball and hit it were they want to hit it."
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Aug 31, 2009 3:41 PM EDT reply actions
New Aubrey isn't the answer to anything
He’s the new Oscar Salazar.
Earl Weaver would’ve kissed Adam Dunn on the mouth in public. - SC 08/11/08
anyone who wears high socks
get’s a bonus form me
"All major leaguers can see the ball and hit it. But what separates the great ones is that they can see the ball and hit it were they want to hit it."
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Aug 31, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Brandon Snyder at 1B
After a couple months, Sndyer should be up from Norfolk.
Reimold would probably work best as DH/part time OFer. He had a history of injuries in the minors. DH may keep him in the lineup and off the DL.
I’d hate to see Luke Scott traded, but it really makes the most sense. Hopefully he can at least find success elsewhere.
it should also be mentioned...
pie was preposterously unlucky when he was allowed to start in april. he walked 6 times stacked up against 14 K, but his BABIP was only .194.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Aug 31, 2009 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Pie
I’m not convinced Pie’s recent hot streak is anything more than that, a streak, but there is no need to decide any of this. I’m for all of the above – play Pie in left more and have him spell Jones in center once in awhile, get Scott and Riemold both to be DH’s/1B’s/LF’s, it’s all good, none of them will bring a lot in a trade anyway (maybe Reimold but he’s a keeper), but keep Jones and Markakis where they are, obviously. And we still need a big butt power hitter at 1B or DH, Adam Dunn would be good. The young pitchers are obviously the biggest concern/determining factor for the team.
why do they have to do something?
What’s wrong with having 4 good outfielders? Remember how bad left field was for the phillies when we played them and Ibanez was out? Especially in a DH league, why do you guys insist on moving reimold to 1st or shipping someone off? Those 4 guys make a damn solid outfield. Keep Pie around and keep Nolan in left. It will be one less thing we have to tinker with when we start competing. Besides, its a 162 game season and, like I said about being in the AL with the DH, there will be PLENTY of at bats for the 4 of them.
by OldBay83 on Sep 1, 2009 1:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
But why keep a viable bat on the bench?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
lowenstein/roenike
Why not? Especially if u can sign a 1b-man that is able to pop 35-40hr a year? Good talent on the field, deep bench, homegrown pitching, depth in the farm system. Sounds like a winning franchise to me. Yeah I’m all for reimold being able to spot at 1st now and then. But let’s have a solid outfield with a valuable 4th outfielder, and get a real 1st baseman instead of trying to create one. We haven’t had a stud 1st baseman in a while. Let’s build this team for real this time around…corner infielders who can hit for power and are naturals at the position.
by OldBay83 on Sep 1, 2009 2:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If we can find one then I agree
But bringing in a real 1B isn’t an easy task.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Career MiL numbers?
Or do you mean his few ABs broken up over three seasons?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
i dont really care when his ABs were
his career numbers in the majors suck. glad he’s making his case now, but just because he’s hitting now in his first real “chance” does not mean his bat is so special. he’s gonna get his playing time now so watch and see.
because he’s hitting now in his first real "chance"
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
AJ is getting his first real "chance" too
he didn’t play THAT much last year. he was on FIRE at the beginning of the season and has cooled off. it happens to every hitter.
He had as many ABs last year as he currently has in 2009
515.
Not that much?
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
Not gonna lie.
Totally admire Baltimo’s resolve to combat 100’s of angry camden chatters on one thread.
I’m now going to switch sides. I say we should put Pie in CF and have AJ sit out the rest of the season.
All kidding aside, I hope AJ isn’t becoming an injury prone individual… and if Pie works out, then hell – that’s awesome. Still reserving my right to be skeptical.
crap
can’t handle all this sarcasm and criticism. Sorry Baltimo, I don’t have your sort of resolve.
I’m going back on the other side. Screw Pie, go AJ!
I'll step in when shit really hits the fan
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
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