Closing Time
by Dr Orpheus on Sep 29, 2009 1:45 PM EDT
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PrintJim Johnson has struggled in the closers role, but then again, he hasn't been as solid this season as last and this could all be simply a down year.
Flat Breezy is with the Dodgers now and flourishing as their LOOGY/occasional closer.
Danys Baez is a free agent and will not be resigned by the Os.
Koji Uehara was a both a starter and closer in Japan so he's an option, but he's been hurt so often it makes one wonder if he might be better as a set-up or middle reliever than a closer.
Kam Mickolio looks like he has closer potential but might need a year or two of major league playing time before jumping into that role.
David Hernandez has been mentioned several times as a closer candidate, and after the year he's had, it might make sense.
So, I ask you, who closes?
The 2010 Orioles will be vastly improved from the 2007-09 Os. With the emergence of Wieters, Jones, Reimold, and Pie on the offensive side and Bergesen, Matusz, Tillman as mainstays in the rotation the future looks bright. However, as we've seen over this 11 game skid, the bullpen has been sorely vexed. They've given up runs at an alarming rate and, as Roch has pointed out several times, most won't make it passed Spring Training; some, not even that far.
Thus, the question becomes, who locks down the closer role next season and beyond?
As mentioned above, the Os have a few options, but none of them have looked like a solid bullpen, let alone anchor. With such a young rotation the important things become defense and bullpen to maintain a lead and not destroy the young kid's belief that they can win. After all, an argument is always made that a starter is only as good as the guys behind him, that is, unless that starter goes 9 strong (unless your Zack Grienke).
What options are looking best? Does McPhail give the ball back to Johnson? Is Uehara the man even after a injury-rittled season? Has Mickolio become a man so early?
My suggestion would be free agency, focusing on Rafael Soriano. As Atlanta's closer bi-sect, Soriano has put together another solid season with an ERA of 3.00, a low homerun rate (0.74), 11.89 K/9, and an 87% save rate. Those are the kinds of numbers a young starer can have confidence in.
If your interested, Tim Dierkes of mlbtraderumors just posted this offseason's closers. It's worth a read if you, as I do, think free agency is the right way to go.
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I'm not opposed to FA
But I don’t want to give a ton of money to a relief pitcher, closer or not.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
I agree.
I also wonder to what degree the ineffectiveness of starters, forcing the bullpen to throw more than they ought to have, early in the season has resulted in our current situation. Everyone seems tired more than anything else.
But say no to free agent closers. Not a good investment. Doesn’t mean the Orioles won’t go there – I actually think they might. But they shouldn’t.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
I've thought that the past few years
The bullpen always starts out ok and after they get used more than any other bullpen they get pooped.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
Johnson isn't the closing argument.
He has good stuff, and so does Mickolio. Hell, Uehara has nasty stuff for an inning or so. If they weren’t so downtrodden at the end of the year, they might be ok. I do not think Hernandez will make in the majors as a starter. If he can be converted to a late inning specialist, I think he has the best shot. I would throw it open to whoever is dominant next spring, but don’t let Uehara or Hernandez start another game. They need to start thinking like relievers.
My vote is for Hernandez or Mickolio.
Damn
I thought this was going to be a funny version of the song “Closing Time” with lyrics about how this godawful shit ass season is almost over and how we don’t have to watch games any more. Very disappointing to instead see it’s yet another discussion of one of the gaping holes in the O’s team.
Closing Time....
…One last week of Orioles,
So finish up your Esskay frank;
Closing time…..
You’ve got no October so
You’ll play some golf and clean the fish tank.
I know who I want to see get cut,
I know who I want to see get cut,
Cut them Annnnnn dyyyyyyy..
"I think my motivation is to see the other guys in the clubhouse. They’re contending for the playoffs, and when I see that it gets into my body. I play like it’s the playoffs too" —Memlo
or did you mean the Tom Waits song...?
"I think my motivation is to see the other guys in the clubhouse. They’re contending for the playoffs, and when I see that it gets into my body. I play like it’s the playoffs too" —Memlo
And here I thought
we’d end up with Chris Ray closing again lol.
I’m actually hoping for Saito, although I wouldn’t be surprised by Lyon.
Koji
I vote Koji. I think at this point in his career, this is the best role for him. Plus signing a free agent to close I think is fool’s gold.
Librarians are hiding something
Free Agent
Signing a marquee free agent would cost some bucks and is generally fool’s gold.
Non-name players who’ll sign relatively cheap would be a good solution. That and maybe a reclamation project that could possibly be traded midseason
Personally if there are any free-agent Loogys or decent set-up men we could try converting them to closer like we did with Sherrill.
KOJI
I think he would be great as a closer
Didn’t he win the Japanese version of the Cy Young one year as a closer?
anybody remember that guy the mariners had a few years ago
he was like 30 but they gave him the ROY anyway. i think he threw a little harder than koji, but he had the same typical japanse make up (split/slider/equalizer/shakeball) but yeah, you dont necessarily need to be a power guy to close. hell look at trevor hoffman, he doesn’t throw that hard anymore, its just all bout that changeup. i’d feel better about koji than anyone else.
"you know what the orioles could use right now? a day off." - joe angel
by swilhelmross on Sep 30, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
There will probably be a battle
for the closer position come February. Let’s hope they make the right choice.
One more thing: Who starts opening day? Guth, Bergy, Matusz? new FA?
When you're born into the human race you're given a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you're given a front row seat. And some of us have notepads.-George Carlin
by Afghanistan Steve on Sep 30, 2009 4:56 AM EDT reply actions
Are you asking who we think it WILL be, or who we think it SHOULD be?
I think it’ll still probably be guthrie, but I’d give it to 3E
Yeah
I wondered who anyone thinks it will be. I agree with you that Bergy deserves it.
When you're born into the human race you're given a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you're given a front row seat. And some of us have notepads.-George Carlin
by Afghanistan Steve on Sep 30, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Matusz!
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
I'd stick with Guthrie.
Let 3E ease into the season a little bit and not pile a ton of pressue on him.
the correct answer is john lackey
but in all seriousness, yea, it’ll be guthrie
by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it impossible that the Os sign Lackey?
I think MacPhail had better rent a dump truck and drop a mountain of cash in front of Lackey’s door because he’s the kind of pitcher the Os need at the top of their rotation.
With that kind of signing, MacPhail would be open to trading Guthrie for more pitching, a shortstop, or a right-handed bat. It also makes the rotation a lot more stable with:
Lackey, 3E, Matusz, Tillman, and Hernandez/Berken/Patton/etc.
hey i'd keep guthrie for number 5
i’d prefer him to berken/hernandez. i’d love for them to get lackey. maybe with the money we’ll save by switching to geico, we can afford him
by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
me too
I know that not everyone is sold on Lackey, but I’d love it. I think Guts would be the 4 or 5 in that rotation, but I’d stick him up there at two for this year. For morale.
Lackey
Guthrie
Matusz
Bergesen
Tillman
Looks pretty good to me! I have my doubts that Lackey would sign here, but I say show him the money.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
yeah, a dream
If you had to choose between Boston and Baltimore, even if Baltimore offered more money, where would you sign?
Librarians are hiding something
depends on how much more money
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
I guess I should have been clear
Would “hypothetical you that’s not a fan of the Orioles” sign with the Orioles?
Sure I’d listen if Andy called too.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Oct 1, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Orioles could really use a good SS prospect
I hope Givens turns out to be something
For all the Orioles' prospect information and scouting, check out
www.oriolesprospects.com
by Jordan Tuwiner on Sep 30, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly
This is the third or fourth time I’ve heard somebody saying we really need a SS prospect – why exactly?? I don’t even think that really ranks on the list of MASSIVE needs of this team.
Well...
It’s not needed as much with Cizzy and Andino providing some good defense. But it’s the only real position where we have no real inhouse solutions. It’s also probably the weakest position on the Orioles depending on how Melmo’s replacements do
The MASSIVE needs are pitching pitching, starting pitching, closer, starting pitching and bullpen pitcher
Yeah because it would be nice to have on
It is the only position like osandroyals said, that we don’t have any in house options. Givens likely won’t even be ready for 5-7 years so who knows what we will need then
For all the Orioles' prospect information and scouting, check out
www.oriolesprospects.com
by Jordan Tuwiner on Oct 1, 2009 7:10 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think
The massive needs are starting pitching, 1st base, 3rd base, and then bullpen. SS doesn’t really register.
false
relief pitching is much higher up on that list.
by twistedlogic on Oct 1, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Eh
I think if starters go deeper in games the relief pitching will get a lot better. Also if the rotation includes Guthrie, Bergesen, Matusz, Tillman, and Koji, I think Berken and Hernandez could be ok in the BP. But if starters are going 6-7 innings rather than 4-5 innings it will make a huge difference in ther BP effectiveness.
Koji's a 5 inning pitcher
Put him in the bullpen
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
The bitching staff
Guts
Iceberg
Matusz
Tillman
Arrieta
Berken and DH to long relief, Patton if he’s ready. Hendo if he’s willing. Bass and Albers out.
Try Koji at closer. He should be able to stay healthy pitching one inning every 3-6 days. JJ back to setup. Megadeth as a specialist. Did I miss anyone?
"I feel like I learned more in eight major league starts than I did in three years of college," -- Brian Matusz
by CoachOfEarl on Oct 1, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well we have Josh Bell, Aubrey 2.0, Snyder in the mix next year for the infield corners
Oh and maybe Justin Turner for 3rd base although he’s apparently viewed as just a 2B player
Am i missing anybody?
Let's get a real 1B.
Snyder and Aubrey 2.0 are doubles hitters. The Orioles need a heavy hitter to bat cleanup and bash 40 HRs. Neither of those two will ever do that. They are more like Mark Grace type hitters at best. Why not trade from our strength to bring in a 1B that at least has the potential to bash the ball and bat cleanup? We have lots of “potential” young starting pitching and too many outfielders to play at the same time. Let’s trade for Jake Fox from the Cubs or Justin Smoak from Texas to get a real 1B who can bash. Trade Scott, Pie, Montanez, Guthrie, Erbe, Hernandez or Patton. Let them pick any outfielder and one pitcher from that group.
Concerning Jake Fox
I think if he goes to the AL, he’s viewed mainly as a DH. From what I’ve heard he’s pretty bad on defense.
Down the road it will be nice to have a good shortstop prospect
For all the Orioles' prospect information and scouting, check out
www.oriolesprospects.com
by Jordan Tuwiner on Oct 1, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
It would be nice to have a good prospect at every position, but that’s not one of the glaring needs at the moment or in the near future.
I am not saying it is a glaring need
I am saying down the road if we need a shortstop it would be nice to have an in house option, you do not know where we will be in 5-7 years which is likely when Givens will be ready if he ever develops enough to make it pro.
For all the Orioles' prospect information and scouting, check out
www.oriolesprospects.com
by Jordan Tuwiner on Oct 2, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I have not heard other people say it that often but....
I think it might have to do with people just wanting a balanced farm system. I just like following the minors for my website and I like having a legit SS prospect
For all the Orioles' prospect information and scouting, check out
www.oriolesprospects.com
by Jordan Tuwiner on Oct 2, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
What is Givens doing?
One of the reasons given for withdrawing the offer to Givens in early August was that he wasn’t playing ball or working out or anything. Then suddenly he signed at the deadline. What is this kid doing to justify the signing? Is he playing baseball somewhere? Going to the AFL or Dominican winter ball or something? Or is he just eating Doritoes and hanging out spending his bonus money?
Nats down 3-4 in bottom of the 9th
bases loaded, two outs, 3-2 count.
I know they’re the Nats, but I like shit like this.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
AHAHAHAH
and Maxwell hit a walk off grand slam!!
Awesome.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
For the record
I do not know who Maxwell is.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
He Chris Hoiles'd it!
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
ha ha
I thought this was the game thread. Y’all are going to think I’m insane.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
::looks at duck::
you know we BOTH have to turn our keys at the same time, right?
"I think my motivation is to see the other guys in the clubhouse. They’re contending for the playoffs, and when I see that it gets into my body. I play like it’s the playoffs too" —Memlo
Waiting on your signal...
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
Former Terp
He played in Hagerstown two years ago
"I hate making excuses. If I suck, then I suck. And I suck. That's the way I'm playing. If you suck, you suck. You have to take responsibility in this game. Right now, that's the way I feel. Yes, I suck." - Jose Guillen/quote of the year
So, I ask you, who closes?
No. Who’s on first. What the Fuck closes.
You don't EVEN KNOW who O's21girl is!
by Senatorrosewater on Oct 1, 2009 11:58 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
What about Takashi Saito?
He thrived in the AL East after a rough start and has experience closing in LA.
He’d probably be less expensive than Soriano.
Isn't he about 400 years old?
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
Hoffman
When does age matter?
A couple more injuries a year? Someone to tutor the young guys sounds more important than suggesting that he’s too old.
Someone who doesn't speak English or Spanish?
why not just let Koji tutor them then.
I guess I’m just not a big proponent of going out and getting a name to be a closer.
Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts
But
There’s going to be a bunch of good closers on the free agent market.
I figure we could probably pick up one closer on the cheap, possibly on a two-year contract.
Also Saito doesn’t speak English or Spanish? At all? Hmmmm well it probably won’t matter much anyway as the Sawx have an option on him this season anyway
And I just found an article stating that his english is probably decent but not great.
http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/red_sox_karaoke_0325.6ea125cb.html
Age does matter for most closers
Most closers become less effective as they lose velocity. Hoffman and Rivera are really two exceptions
Rivera’s been incredibly durable even after pitching through injuries the past years.
Hoffman’s pitches off of his change-up similar to how knuckleballers pitch off of their knuckleball. Their fastballs aren’t deceptive but instead just a change of speed to keep hitters honest
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