Rays 3, Orioles 1: And that's 12.

by Stacey on Sep 29, 2009 10:49 PM EDT in Post-Game Comment 68 comments

Jeremy Guthrie pitched a pretty good game, going 7 innings and allowing three runs. Dennis Sarfate pitched a scoreless inning, making tonight the first game the bullpen hasn't allowed a run since September 23rd. Matt Wieters continues to look good at the plate. He had two more hits tonight and smoked another ball that was caught. Brian Roberts hit his 56th double of the year which is a record for most doubles by a switch hitter. Lance Berkman held the mark before him. It seems like a weird record to me.

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I noticed

that in the post game interview Trembley said something along the lines of ‘Tomorrow everybody go out with your wife, see a movie, have lunch, enjoy Florida…’

It almost sounded like he was saying ‘We suck ass and I have to start looking for a new job next week. You all might as well have fun because we’re skipping batting practice tomorrow since it won’t help you bastards win anyway.’

You don't EVEN KNOW who O's21girl is!

by Senatorrosewater on Sep 30, 2009 12:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well.....

Dave is speaking the truth…..sob…..

When you're born into the human race you're given a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you're given a front row seat. And some of us have notepads.-George Carlin

by Afghanistan Steve on Sep 30, 2009 4:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Whatta

joke this is to watch, I mean could it possibly get any worse?? I hope, no pray next year will at least be watchable, somewhat cause this crap is really for the birds (no pund intended) Dave T. must move on, he sucks!>

by F4PhantomPhreak on Sep 30, 2009 5:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sure it can

Turn to the other MASN channel any given game night.

Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "

by duck on Sep 30, 2009 7:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

bunch of quitters

unless there is some hidden agenda for them to keep losing games for better draft picks. who knows..

by Y Not on Sep 30, 2009 5:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bunch of quitters?????

They had most of their best players lost for the season or shut down from a team that wasn’t good to begin with. They no longer have their cleanup hitter (Huff), either of their number 3 hitters (AJ and Reimold), their 4th outfielder turned starting centerfielder and 2 hitter (Pie), their best pitcher of the season (3E), their 2nd best pitcher of the season (matusz), their closer (Sherrill). Shall I go on? I know it sucks, but to say these guys are quitters when I’ve seen ZERO evidence of not hustling or giving up is quite frankly absurd. They are a bad team battling with a decimated roster in an absurdly competitive division.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well to be honest

they still have their original number 3 hitter in markakis. he would have stayed there all year if huff and/or reimold was still playing

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe.

I still like him more in the 2 spot and AJ more in the 3 spot (when he was hitting well at least).

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i mean considering that izturis is hitting number 2, yea markakis is better

but i still maintain that markakis is a number 3 hitter.

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know.

I just don’t see how he’s that good of a 3 hitter with his lack of slugging/power. He really seems like an ideal 2 hitter; good average, good OBP (usually), hits to all fields, runs well, runs the bases well.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also

an optimum lineup is basically ranked in decreasing order of OBP, so unless AJ overtakes him in OBP (which doesn’t seem likely, but one can hope!) and continues outslugging him I don’t see much of an argument.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

aww c'mon

aj outslugged him for half of the season and then returned to his usual self in that anything that bends gets by him. and i dont totally agree with the decreasing OBP thing. generally you start with the high OBP at the top, but often the guys at the bottom have a higher OBP than the power hitters in the middle. in my “optimum” lineup, jones would hit 5th.

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The guys with higher OBP in the middle of the lineup also generally have dramatically higher slugging which Nicky does not have. And whether you agree with it or not it’s been mathematically shown that the optimum lineup ranks OBP greatest to least.

Not sure what you mean about him outslugging Nicky for the first half of the season – he has a higher slugging percentage right now even after his decline in the second half.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't get me wrong.

I love Nicky and think he’s probably a better all around hitter than AJ. I just don’t really understand the argument that he belongs in the 3 slot as he seems much more suited for the 2 slot pretty much any way I look at it.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i dont believe that

i havent found a single playoff team regularly ordering (if ever ordering) their lineup based on OBP.

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t necessarily believe that’s how a lineup should be structured either (straight OBP greatest to least), but I see no reason that Nicky makes a good number 3 hitter. He seems like about as classic number 2 hitter as there possibly could be. Very limited power, sprays the ball around to all fields, good OBP (before this year), and good speed/baserunning abilities. None of that says 3 hitter to me.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

then what was the point of bringing up the "mathematically proven optimum lineup?"

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because the exception is guys with high OBP and also high slugging – which Nicky does not. In his case he’s basically a slap hitter. I don’t see why a slap hitter belongs hitting 3rd.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh haha

i just thought it was funny that you were like “optimum lineup! optimum lineup!” and then decided you didn’t much care for it either.

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well I said mathematically optimum. Not necessarily practical though. Although who knows since nobody ever tries it?

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ahhh so its proven on paper

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

By nerds with pocket protectors.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

now now

i’m not a nerd and i don’t have a pocket protector, but i deal with them numbers on paper all the time.

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually now that i think about it

why is it mathematically optimum? i feel like having guys at the bottom that don’t get on base very often means it’s harder to turn the lineup over.

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s been a while since I read that chapter in Baseball Behind the Numbers (or beyond??), but I think the gist was that you just wanted the guys with high OBP to bat as many times as possible over the course of the season.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But he can't run as fast as Adam

I always think of Adam as a #2 for a few reasons

1) He really, really wanted it and went out this winter to make it happen – working out in AZ at the same place B-Rob does with Mark McLemore. A motivated ballplayer can be a better ballplayer

2) Adam has the speed to do something on the bases. Nick, while a smart baserunner, ain’t exactly fast. And I’d rather see Nick, with his higher rate of contact, in the #3 with a chance to hit in either B-Rob or Adam (or both) than Adam strike out on a curve with BRob at 2nd and Nick at 1st.

It may not make the most logical sense, but that’s my story and I’m stickin’ to it.

My ideal lineup?
1) B-Rob
2) Adam
3) Nick
4) Big Bat TBA
5) Wieters
6) Nolan
7) Luke
8) 3B TBA
9) Izzy

Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "

by duck on Sep 30, 2009 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i like that

but i’m not sure its always about speed. jones is fast, but that doesn’t mean he’s a good base stealer. it’s kinda like pocket presence for a QB. being a tall, strong-armed QB doesn’t necessarily make you a good pocket passer. there is a intangible involved. my analogy might suck, but maybe you see what i’m getting at.

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I get you

MY thing is, with as often as BRob gets on, we don’t need a base stealer there – BRob’s gonna be standing on 2nd 40% of the time, anyway.

Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "

by duck on Sep 30, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

if he didnt lollygag, he'd be standing on 3rd

it’d be nice to throw in a double steal in the rare occasion that b rob doesnt double

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eh

1. why does that matter for 2 as opposed to 3?

2. I haven’t seen THAT much difference in their speed and Nicky seems like a better baserunner – I’d rather have him going first to third than AJ in a situation that requires reading a ball. And it’s not like AJ is stealing a lot of bases either.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because, and this is a pretty backwards way of looking at it...

If B-Rob gets on and Adam strikes out, Nick is still there to pick up BRob,

If Brob and Nick get on, and Adam strikes out, who in this lineup is going to pick them up?

Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "

by duck on Sep 30, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

if we don’t have a cleanup hitter behind WHOEVER bats third than we are in trouble no matter what. no?

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes.

moral of the story: wieters needs to hit home runs.

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha or EVERYBODY needs to hit HRs. Without Adam Dunn hitting 4th, we need 30 HRs out of AJ and Wieters and 25 out of Nicky and Reimold, and 20 out of BRob. lol

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha well dunn doesnt hit THAT many home runs

he aint no pujols. so maybe like 28 outta AJ and wieters.

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dunn's good for 40 per year.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

current “number 4 hitter” is scott with like 25 homers. we gotta make up 15 more homeruns somewhere.

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

25 homers

18 of which came before the AS break. Scott at cleanup is a joke.

Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts

by Stacey on Sep 30, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree

thats why i put it in quotation marks

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

luke scott and/or melvin mora of course

foolproof!

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stop!

You’re making me cough again by making me laugh!

Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "

by duck on Sep 30, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i do my best

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We're in agreement

Nick is a more well rounded hitter than Adam. He walks more, he doesn’t chase bad pitches, he hits better to all fields. But Adam has more power. Even if he improves, he’ll always be the type of hitter that chases pitches and strikes out a lot. But he’s probably going to hit more HR than Nick. I envision Nick as a 20 HR hitter, maybe 25 in a good year. Nick hit 20 last year and if he could just replicate those numbers for the duration of his contract I would be thrilled. I’m hoping that if Adam turns out he’ll be a 25-30 HR guy. That’s still yet to be determined, but this year proves he has the pop.

I think that if Wieters develops into a good #3 hitter and the Orioles ever get an actual slugger to bat cleanup, Adam could even end up hitting 5th and do it well. Brian, Nick, Wieters, Slugger, Adam. That doesn’t even account for Reimold, who himself seems like a good #2 hitter.

I think that without that slugger, it makes most sense to hit Roberts, Reimold, Markakis, Wieters, Jones. If Reimold doesn’t have a sophomore slump and keeps up his awesome patience at the plate, he and Brian will be on base a lot for Nick and Matt and Adam. I’m also very excited to see how Nolan does in a full year with a fully healed achilles. . Reimold hit 15 HR in 411 PA this year, so if he kept that pace over a full season that’d put him around 25 probably. . If Nick can get his OBP back up where it has been before this year, it would make sense to flip them and have Nolan hitting third behind Nick.

Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts

by Stacey on Sep 30, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even in that lineup

I would vote for switching Nicky and Reimold – Reimold seems to have more power than Markakis. Even if Nicky doesn’t get his OBP back up, why does it make sense to have him in front of Reimold?

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

err behind him i mean

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he runs the bases much better than both nicky and adam

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"Nolan Reimold's the last guy that's not going to run hard there."

Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "

by duck on Sep 30, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You think Reimold runs the bases better than Nicky?

I would have to disagree with that. He might get more steals, but I don’t think there’s a better base runner on the team than Nick.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes...my bad

i really meant that i think reimold is a better base stealer than nicky. i turned that into better base runner. my fault.

that said, maybe i’m a little biased cuz reimold actually tried to steal. nicky didn’t do all of that running he mentioned in ST (jones didn’t either for that matter)

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

That’s one of the things I was surprised about this year – I was expecting to see Nicky try to steal a bit more. If he could get 20 SBs a year (with a good success rate of course) that would make his lack of power less annoying.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he def can do it

after all of that talk in ST about running, i dunno why they never did. both nicky and jones are clearly capable of stealing a bag. or two. or twenty

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I always thought Nicky would be the guy who pitchers never worry about stealing and then you look around at the end of the year and he’s 20-23 or something because he picks his spots so well.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

me too

mostly because he doesnt have blinding speed. just good speed. you assume cuz he isnt that fast that he isnt a threat to run and then BAM! he’s standing on second.

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I forget who is like that.

I wanted to say Youkilis, but I can’t be sure. There’s some guy who I usually think of as station to station pretty much and then every year he’s got 15-20 SBs.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

david wright

he’s fast, but def not blinding.

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

There’s somebody even more like that than him though. His secret’s pretty much out after this year I think.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nick doesn't seem to have great speed

But he’s smart out there. I can’t remember the last time I saw him make a mistake on the baes. Of course that doesn’t mean he’d be a great base stealer but if he could learn a few things (maybe from Brian) then he could use that with his current skills to steal at least 20 a year I’d think.

I’d like him to be like Bobby Abreu base stealing-wise. Nobody ever thinks of Abreu as being a base stealer because he’s this kind of big outfielder, but he gets like 20-30 a year.

I think Nick should go to Arizona with Brian in the offseason and learnin how to steal bases and maybe e lift some weights.

Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts

by Stacey on Sep 30, 2009 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And lift some god damn weights for shit sakes.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because

for the most part I subscribe to the idea of the higher OBP batting higher in the lineup. If Nolan continues to keep his OBP up I’d rather see him 2nd. But I believe that Nick will bounce back next year. If Nick of the future is equal to 2009 Nick then he should be batting in the bottom half of the lineup. Nick before ’09 belongs at #2.

Some Day, Matt Wieters Will Make The Cooperstown Crowd Laugh By Talking About The Time He Batted Behind Melvin Mora And Luke Scott. -Keith Law via Matt Wieters Facts

by Stacey on Sep 30, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh ok

Yeah I agree with that. Sorry I got confused and thought you were saying that if Nicky had a higher OBP than Reimold you would want Nicky in the third slot.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'd still want nicky at the third spot

maybe its just cuz i love nick markakis and have already written his HOF plaque.

that and i’ve got some quality dope.

by twistedlogic on Sep 30, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha

So you’re the guy who already reserved his spot in Cooperstown that I got blamed for! haha jk

I mean I really want Nicky to be a 3 hitter – I think he just needs to improve a bit (especially in the power department) to be a good one. Lift some goddamn weight with BRob this offseason. Now that you’re married you don’t have shit else to do anyway.

by O'sFan21 on Sep 30, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs