I (want to) love Melvin Mora
by Stacey on Sep 7, 2009 7:29 PM EDT
in Commentary & Analysis
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PrintThere are 25 games remaining in the 2009 season, which means that, barring some crazy circumstance, we have 25 more times to watch Melvin Mora play baseball as a Baltimore Oriole. I know that a number of you say good riddance, and when I'm watching Melvin sometimes I think the same thing. But Mora is one of only 23 players to spend at least 10 seasons with the Orioles and is arguably the second best third baseman in team history. I loved Melvin in the past, and I'm determined to do so again before this season is over.
In 2000, Melvin Mora was traded to the Orioles as a 27 year old utility player with about one year of major league experience and no real expectations assigned to him. In his first 426 games as an Oriole he continued to serve in the super utility role, playing every position on the field except pitcher, catcher, and third base. He really came into his own offensively in 2003, hitting .317/.418/.503 with 17 2B, 15 HR, and 49 BB in 413 plate appearances. His reward was the full time 3B position beginning in 2004, and he's been there ever since.
Given one position to play and every day to play it for the first time in his career seemed to suit Melvin. At 32 years old he had the best year of his career, hitting .340/.419/.562 with 41 2B and 27 HR, winning the Silver Slugger for his position. A position, incidentally, at which Mora had only two major league starts prior to 2004 (plus 106 games in the minors). Mora was a bright spot on another losing Orioles team and quickly became a fan favorite. His three year extension, announced during the 2006 season, was roundly applauded (including by our Cobra Commander).
So what happened? Melvin never had another season like 2004, certainly. He put up decent, but not great, numbers in 2006 and 2007, then in 2008 his numbers dropped dramatically until a Ruthian surge in the 2nd half gave him total numbers for the year that were his best since 2005. Here in 2009, Melvin isn't doing so well, although at the age of 37 it's not unexpected that he'd be in decline. He also gave his infamous (on Camden Chat anyway) "Dave Trembley doesn't respect me for the All Star that I am" speech, which didn't win over many. It's worth noting that Melvin had similar thoughts back in 2007 when Scott Moore was given a brief chance at third base. Things like that make it hard to love Melvin Mora, but I'm going to try anyway.
Why am I going to try? Because as I said before, Melvin has given us a lot in the years he's been here, and he is arguably the second best third baseman in Orioles history. There's no argument who the best is, and a fair number of people would put Doug DeCinces as second best. DeCinces undoubtedly had a better career than Melvin Mora has had to this point, but a number of his best offensive seasons came as a member of the California Angels. I never had the chance to see DeCinces play, but from what I've been told and what I can ascertain through his statistics, he was above average, but not exceptional, both offensively and defensively. Mora has made himself into an average defensive 3B and despite his recent woes has been above average offensively as a Baltimore Oriole. I don't feel I know enough about DeCinces to make a decision on who was a better 3B for the Orioles, but I can tell it's a close race (I also think it's safe to assume that some of those who did watch DeCinces play will say he was better even if he wasn't, because that's how memory works, and DeCinces did play during the good old days).
In cumulative offensive statistics (runs, hits, home runs, doubles, RBI), Mora is 2nd to Brooks Robinson in every catagory. In other statistics, Mora has the highest batting average, on base percentage, and slugging percentage of any 3B who's played at least 150 games at the position (that's stats at the position only, not overall player stats).
Of late, Mora has played better offensively than he did for the first two-thirds of the year. No matter how well he plays for the rest of the year, he won't be able to salvage this season, but here's hoping he goes out in a blaze of glory. I don't want my final memories of him to be what we saw the first part of this season. On Saturday I sat on the third base side at Camden Yards and joked as we sat down that no matter what at least I get to be so close to Melvin. He went on to get three hits and make a diving catch late in the game. It was when he made that catch that I realized I want to love Melvin Mora, no matter his stupid bunts and his playoff experience and all of the disrespect he faces on a daily basis. Hopefully Melvin will keep it together enough for the rest of the season so that I can do just that.
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Count me as one...
who DEFINITELY would pick Doug DeCinces as the second best 3B in Orioles history behind Brooks Robinson.
From 1975-1981, DeCinces posted an OPS+ of at least 98 every year except one, with a high of 149 in 1978. His defense was good. And he didn’t bunt all the damn time or whine about his position in the batting order.
From 2001-2009, Mora has had 3 seasons with an OPS+ below 98. Yes, his highest OPS+ season is 155, higher than DeCinces. Yes, he has 5 seasons with an OPS+ of more than 110.
But Doug DeCinces never put up a 78 OPS+ for the year like Melvin is this year.
I’m old, and I like Doug DeCinces better than Melvin Mora. So get off my lawn.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
oh, my...
there an echo in here or you forget your geritol, pops?
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
yeah, but...
Doug DeCinces never played at the age of 37, and let’s be honest, Melvin is probably over 40 now anyway. You cant blame Melvin that the O’s signed up to keep him until he was too old to be an everyday player. Also, DeCinces batted .234 his final. ugh.
+1
Like I said, I am first to admit that I don’t know the answer to who’s better, but I do know that Doug DeCinces didn’t play baseball when he was 37 years old.
I also know that whining about position in batting order has nothing to do with if you’re a better player than someone. Might be a reason you like him more, but that’s it.
Earl Weaver would’ve kissed Adam Dunn on the mouth in public. - SC 08/11/08
I don't care about age.
I care about production and attitude. DeCinces was more consistent, longer, and never called out his manager. Age is irrelevant – stats aren’t age-adjusted in MLB. You either hit or you don’t.
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
but the fact is
I don’t know the story behind it and am too lazy to look it up, but DeCinces played his last game at age 36 when he appeared in 4 games for the Cardinals. The fact that Melvin Mora is playing for the Orioles at age 37 is more of an indictment on the Orioles front office than it is Melvin Mora.
Earl Weaver would’ve kissed Adam Dunn on the mouth in public. - SC 08/11/08
I mean
He was released by the Angels during the season, then played 4 games with the Cardinals. I was unclear when I said that about the 4 games above. If Melvin Mora had been released in the middle of this year it would have been similar. But still, more to do with the Orioles FO than Melvin.
And I’m not defending Mora. Like I said in the post I don’t have the information to make a decision either way. I’m just saying that when you’re evaluating his career, using this year doesn’t really seem fair. Many players better than Melvin Mora had crappier last seasons when they were just holding on. Cal Ripken for example. Would you ever in a million years say, “Derek Jeter was better than Cal Ripken because he NEVER had an OPS+ of 70 the way Ripken did in 2001?”
Earl Weaver would’ve kissed Adam Dunn on the mouth in public. - SC 08/11/08
i am SO w/ you!
i didn’t really know of doug decinces until he was an angel. bill james gives good marks.
…i feel like, over-inflated sense of self and all, melmo is still the kind of guy you root for: when he first came to the team, he did whatever was asked of him to get PT and then molded himself into a solid contributor at a position where there hasn’t been much stability in this organization SINCE doug decinces. if he’s not 2nd best on balance, he’s damn close.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
I think almost all of Birdland is in agreement.
Melvin’s Loveability is in inverse proportion to the number of weeks remaining in his contract.
You don't EVEN KNOW who O's21girl is!
by Senatorrosewater on Sep 7, 2009 8:25 PM EDT reply actions
Just average defensively at 3rd?
i don’t have any stats at all, but I’ve always kind of thought he was an above average third baseman. Maybe it’s because I’ve been comparing him to Ty Wigginton
That's why I don't really like talking about defense
I actually find it to be frustrating. When someone is really really good, you know it. When someone is really, really bad, you know it. In between, it’s tough to say. My eyes tell me that Melvin makes some crazy good plays and botches a lot of routine ones. Defensive stats say that Melvin isn’t great, but it’s hard for me to understand how some of them are calculated and it’s generally said that defensive stats are the least reliable.
Earl Weaver would’ve kissed Adam Dunn on the mouth in public. - SC 08/11/08
With brek here
He makes a LOT of very above average plays at third. He makes SOME mistakes at 3rd. The hot corner gets a lot of high speed action which is prone to errors by most human 3rd basemen. Otherwise, guy has a solid glove (I admire it moreso since he wasn’t a natural at the position).
Also, I agree with your reservation on obeying defensive stats. I respect the defensive stats, but I think more than offense, just watching every game can tell you how good someone is at D. I’ve seen melvin mora save games with his gloves more often than he’s blown them. Stats don’t give you that.
melvin plays a damn good third base
he doesnt have the best arm, but for 37 he still is incredibly agile and hes got incredible range over there. whoever we come with next year we’ll miss his D. And his 2-out singles.
"you know what the orioles could use right now? a day off." - joe angel
and his RISP GIDPs
"I think my motivation is to see the other guys in the clubhouse. They’re contending for the playoffs, and when I see that it gets into my body. I play like it’s the playoffs too" —Memlo
I have always been a fan of Mora
And he is the second best Oriole 3rd baseman of our time. DeCines had his best years as an Angel. I wish Melvin well in the future. He may have a roll back in the NL. The “Franchise” (Josh Bell) will get a clear shot at the job coming into ST in 2010.
Success in 2010. Playoffs in 2011. Go Orioles!
I'm really intrigued by Melvin's status for 2010
I can’t imagine anyone offering him a contract, considering the shift away from 35+ players in the last year or two and his fall off of the cliff this season. I really do wonder if he’ll swallow his pride and accept a minor league deal and ST invite if that’s all that is available.
"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson
true...
like, after the season he had last year, no AL team offered jim edmonds a one year deal? he would’ve been pretty solid in a part time dh/of role and probably pretty cheap.
i think if memlo works on playing a little OF in the winter league, he could be a decent role player signing for someone, but doesn’t really fit into andymac’s plan.
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
by j.q. higgins on Sep 8, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank you for your service and good luck to you, sir.
I’ll try to remember you for 2004 and 2005. Beyond that I don’t have much to say. Hopefully I’ll associate him with being one of the better and most-consistently-there players on a string of awful teams. I really don’t have much of an emotional attachment to him. Maybe I’ve just been soured by his whining this season…who knows…
Thinking back the one thing I’ve always liked about him is how much he seems to enjoy the game. Always smiling and laughing (sometimes with players on the Yerks which occasionally rubs me the wrong way) and hustling. Good shit.
I respect Melvin Mora
Will always have a place for me as a very good Oriole. Quirky personality – but that’s just him. Would also have liked if most of his hot streaks came in the first half of a season instead of the 2nd half .. but again – “whatever.”
Me gusta el Melvin Mora.
The bunting. The playoff experience. The batting crown that almost was. The whining. The streaky hitting. The feast-or-famine fielding.
The short version: Memlo has been one of the most all-over-the-lot Orioles, literally and figuratively, that I can recall. Comparing him with anybody strikes me as a pretty academic exercise. (’Course, what else have we got to do around here— root on our annual September drive for the playoffs?)
Anyway, yeah: Memlo. He was here. We had some good times. Thx for ‘em, buddy, much appreciated — and we’ll look fwd to seeing how the managing job goes at Caracas.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
Doug DeCinces was better. Period.
"I think my motivation is to see the other guys in the clubhouse. They’re contending for the playoffs, and when I see that it gets into my body. I play like it’s the playoffs too" —Memlo
Thanks for having my back, z
Whippersnappers these days, I tell ya…
Jim Palmer: "I said to Nolan, 'Why do you run every ball out like that?' and he said, 'Why wouldn’t you?' "
I'm older than both of you and I know that DeCinces is better ...
… only if you count his Angels days.
hakkaa päälle !
I'm much older but like Mora over DeCinces
Not Mr. Robinson or Mr. Ripken, but a fine Oriole. Never a big DeCinces fan because Mr. Robinson spoiled me. And dealing DeCinces only brought Dan Ford, a nice kid but one who only had 1 decent Baltimore season out of 4 — it helped win a WS, though.
Senor Mora never really had a bad year as an Oriole, three excellent ones (2003-05), and played six diff.positions in the field.
Oh and by the way DeCinces was playing at 37 for Angels and Cardinals, and at 38 for Yakult Swallows in Japan.
not according to baseball reference
He turned 37 on August 29th of 1987, which for baseball season purposes, means he was 36. So I guess technically he played one month at age 37.
Earl Weaver would’ve kissed Adam Dunn on the mouth in public. - SC 08/11/08
Melvin may not seem like “Mr. Congeniality” in recent seasons, but he’s a guy who chose to stay with the Orioles when he probably could have gone elsewhere, and i’ve generally been happy to root for him and his many many children.
I wonder if I can bill Jeff Lurie and Peter Angelos for the years of therapy their teams are going to put me through.
My money is on Josh Bell
Although if he’s not going to be ready for OD next year, then what? There are just so many factors. I’m glad I’m not the GM.
Earl Weaver would’ve kissed Adam Dunn on the mouth in public. - SC 08/11/08
wiggy for the first two months
Bell in June
"I think my motivation is to see the other guys in the clubhouse. They’re contending for the playoffs, and when I see that it gets into my body. I play like it’s the playoffs too" —Memlo
If they don't give Turner a shot
he’s more of a middle infield guy, but I hear he’s done little wrong since we got him for that lazy catcher.
"I hate seeing Bedard go, but I think the O's may have gotten the better end of the deal" -- me, 2/8/08
that's pretty fast
jumping from AA to the majors is something.
by twistedlogic on Sep 8, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Melvin is okay
Okay, mel called out his manager. I’m not so sure about this manager anyway. He has lost his power, and a step. But don’t kid yourself that someone won’t sign him. He can play three positions, and can still hit a little. I like his competitive fire. So he will be the last to think he’s washed up. All the good one’s think they will never lose it!
by Jerry the beaver on Sep 8, 2009 9:39 AM EDT reply actions
Melmo,
As Motley Crue once said, “Girl, Don’t Go Away Mad… Girl, Just Go Away!”
Birdman is too sexy for this website.
I'm just trying to imagine Memlo as a manager in 10-15 years
We’ll argue on whateever the internets turn into about how he compares to Ozzie Guillen.
"I hate seeing Bedard go, but I think the O's may have gotten the better end of the deal" -- me, 2/8/08
Still A Mel Fan
I was a fan of his when he wowed me with swan dive catches in center and left. I remember how he was the only Oriole at Elrod’s funeral. We saw his kids get older, how many other fans can say that about one of their players. I think we will remember his recent rant more than we should. As with anything it is how you end that people remember because we live in such an ADD society. To me he is the number two 3B behind Brooks because I am young just as DeCinces is others choices. Melvin is an Oriole and always will be to me.
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