Thursday Bird Droppings
by Camden Chat on Jan 21, 2010 7:00 AM EST
in Open Threads
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PrintO's interested in Takahashi
The Orioles have talked to LHP Hisanori Takahashi, Koji's Uehara's former teammate. He's 35 years old. That's all I have to say about that. -Stacey
Orioles' Bergesen on the mend - baltimoresun.com
Bergy is all healed up and ready to go! -Stacey
Jay Gibbons invited to Dodger camp
It looks like Gibbons will get another shot as a non-roster invitee at spring training. My guess is he doesn't make the cut. -Stacey
O's Scott wants to play the field - baltimoresun.com
Luke will of course do whatever's best for the team, because that's what you're supposed to say. But he doesn't want to be a DH and this is the second off-season in a row he's been singing that tune. -Stacey
Trembley talks spring training
Specifically how much more awesome the new location will be than Fort Lauderdale. -Stacey
The Orioles might be movin' on up - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
Jeff Passan gives his preview of the 2010 Orioles. I don't agree with all of it, but he did end in haiku which earns him bonus points. -Stacey
Pondering a worldwide draft with the O's Joe Jordan - Melewski - MASNsports.com
There are reports that Major League baseball has convened a committee to study the possibility of implementing a worldwide draft. Right now, the First-Year Player Draft held in June covers players from the United States, Canada and Puerto Rico only. O's scouting director Joe Jordan has heard the latest buzz about changing the draft, but is somewhat skeptical about it. -zk
O's on Deck: Baysox step up to help Haiti earthquake victims - baltimoresun.com
As many organizations are looking for ways to assist the earthquake victims in Haiti, the Double-A Bowie Baysox are joining the relief efforts. The Orioles' minor league affiliate is partnering with the U.S. Fund for UNICEF to raffle a pair of season tickets for every Baysox home game at Prince George's Stadium in 2010. Every dollar raised will go to UNICEF's efforts for the children in Haiti. -zk
Citizens group offers to settle Sarasota baseball lawsuit | HeraldTribune.com
The group's list of settlement terms, sent Tuesday to county officials, includes a call for a new round of debates about the wisdom of spending public money to lure pro baseball here, and a binding referendum. If the voters were to say no, the deal with the Orioles would be void. Yeah, I'm sure the county commissioners will go for that. -zk
Guess the Opening Day Lineup, win lavish prizes*!
I draw your attention to the Opening Day lineup contest since it's fallen kind of far down the page. If you haven't gotten your guesses in, you have until Monday night. -Stacey
Oh yeah, the noise, the smog, the crowds, the muggers, sex fiends, white slavers, politicians, it's a pistol. I got about as much use for it as a toad has for Open Threads!
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You know, the actual World
A real World Series and an international draft are two things that need to happen. I’m excited at even the thought of an actual World Series pitting the US winner against Japan, Korea, Taipei, etc.
The draft needs to be revamped. There are a lot of international players that go undrafted yet are better than the guys drafted in the late rounds of the amateur draft. Expanding it would make the pool richer and more interesting. Problems will arise with Japan and Korea, however. They love their young guys to stay put.
I can't disagree more
1) A Global Series will never happen because there’s no way the MLBPA allows it, and it should never happen because it would never, ever, ever be remotely interesting. Fuck, the WBC isn’t remotely interesting (I even got to see the Dominican Team play a game last year). If the Nippon Ham Fighters played the New York Yankees 1000 times, the Yankees would win 999 times. The two leagues aren’t even close to the same talent level.
2) An international draft would kill baseball in a lot of places (specifically the DR), just like it has killed baseball in Puerto Rico. Why would any team invest money in baseball academies to teach young Dominicans (or Germans, or Venezuelans, or Canadians, or Brazilians, or Australians) how to become really good at baseball so that the Royals can draft them?
Furthermore, it’s pretty clear that the way international free agency works right now is working pretty well. I mean, it wasn’t the Red Sox or the Yankees or the Mets or the Dodgers or the Cubs that got Chapman. It was the Reds. And the Rays got Iwamura, a terrific player. And the Twins got Max Kepler. And don’t you think the Red Sox probably regret the Dice-K thing, or the Yankees regret the Igawa thing? No, I think the system works pretty well as is.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
I was in PR last year and baseball is very much alive and well. Plenty of great facilities, everybody and their mom playing it. Nobody has stopped investing in scouting and development there – they’ve just re-focused it slightly.
Also in any of the places where teams are spending money on academies, any team can swoop in and sign players at other academies until they are under contract anyway.
I'm no expert
but from what I’ve read, the effort to develop major league quality Puerto Ricans was reduced substantially after the Commonwealth was added to the Rule IV draft. But, you were there and I wasn’t.
I also wonder if there isn’t some sort of unspoken agreement about players at other team’s academies? Hmm. Anyway, I can only go on what I’ve read from smarter folks than myself, but it still seems to me like the current system is working and there would be an awful lot of problems with any draft system, maybe too many to make it worthwhile?
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
I mean
I haven’t seen statistics or anything, so that definitely could be right, but it seemed like it was as popular as ever.
As far as swooping on players at other teams’ academies, I think if a player is unsigned but working out at an academy they are up for grabs no? Again I don’t really know much about it, but I know players at academies get multiple offers before deciding who to sign with. Have you see Sugar? There’s that scene where a few of the players are talking at the KC facility and one of them just got a bunch of offers and he was deciding which one to pick. I know it’s not wise to base opinions on movies, but they tried to make that film pretty realistic.
What do you mean that it’s working well right now? For who? The teams? Or the players?
In terms of
distributing talent. The big payroll teams aren’t dominating the international market, and instead its the smaller payroll teams that seem to be grabbing up the top available talent, and there isn’t any one team monopolizing the field. And the players are making good money, so I’m not sure who is being hurt by the current system.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
Do you have statistics to back that up with big payroll teams not dominating the international market? It seems like the Yankees, Mets, etc are always signing the biggest prospects from asia and latin america to me, but that’s not really based on anything.
by the way I’m not trying to be a dick, it just doesn’t make sense to me that the current system wouldn’t favor the big market teams. There are no constraints in place, so why wouldn’t the richer teams be able to land the best players? Just logically it doesn’t seem like smaller market teams would be able to compete.
The Reds
have signed a quite a few international guys in recent years.
Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt
I agree...
they just popped into mind. I think I read something about where they had signed several top international guys in recent years.
Florida signs their fair share being that they are in close proximity to a lot of the guys getting home.
Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt
Yeah
I wonder how much of the recent ability of small-market teams to sign players is just due to them being quicker to see the opportunity for signing good talent for cheap and soon the bigger market teams will catch up and take over.
I wish someone with more time on their hands would pull the last so many years of baseball america’s top international free agents and where they ended up signing. I’d just be interested to see who and where they went.
Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt
So you're saying I have a lot of time on my hands?
Well, I never! ….ok I kind of do.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Didn’t the Yankees sign the biggest LatAm prospect last year?
LOTS of teams sign LatAm prospects ever year.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Huh?
Ok? I said didn’t they sign the biggest LatAm prospect. What does that have to do with lots of teams signing prospects every year.
I'm not sure who you're referring to
but I don’t recall the Yankees being in on any big-time international free agents in the recent past.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
I didn’t see “biggest” there. But I think Chapman and Sano were the biggest LatAm prospects last year.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Sano signed last year but this offseason. Chapman signed this year so that’s my bad. I don’t there was a “big catch” last off season. I think Kenshin and Koji were the biggest intentional free agents last year. We got Koji and Kenshin went to the Braves, a mid market team.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
the big market teams don't need to worry much about those guys
because they can sign anyone good who’s already here. those great prospects can go sign with whatever team they want. if they’re any good, they’ll gravitate toward the yankees etc anyways once they become FAs.
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 4:22 PM EST up reply actions
the big market teams don’t need to worry much about those guys
Big market teams don’t have to worry about signing international, top prospects…. yeah, that’s flat out wrong. If big market teams ignored INT free agents under the logic that they can sign them as free agents after proving themselves, they would kill themselves competitively. By limiting themselves to US born players only via the rule IV draft, they would severely hamper their player development system.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
What do the Yankees care about the player development system?
Are you kidding me? Jeter, Mariano, Cano, Pettitte, and Posada? I think these guys contributed to their current WS title and were homegrown players. Not to mention, Bernie Williams who was a key player from their past championships.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
So? That’s not the question at hand. Your curly haired boyfriend said that that the farm system doesn’t matter. That’s clearly not the case.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
What?
Of course that’s the question at hand. The point that you were trying to dismiss was that the yankees don’t care about their player development system and you did it by naming 5 guys that they developed 5 presidential terms ago. That’s fucking absurd. The circumstances in which big-market teams like the Yankees don’t care about international prospects (and don’t have to as Twisted was saying) didn’t come about until after they already developed all those guys. So it’s very much the question at hand.
The point that you were trying to dismiss was that the yankees don’t care about their player development system and you did it by naming 5 guys that they developed 5 presidential terms ago.
Dude, go back and read what I said. CHB said that big market teams DON’T have to rely on INT free agents. I said big market teams DO have to rely on their player development which INCLUDES international free agents. You then responded with, “What do the Yankees care about the player development system?” They should care because their core included home grown players. You actually agree with me than CHB.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
No!
The fact that they developed a core of good players 15 years ago before they started outspending the league by a 2-1 margin is NOT a reason that they should care about player development.
Are you honestly saying home grown player development isn’t important? Just to get things straight.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
No man!
But I’m definitely saying that the Yankees care MUCH less about it than the teams signing these international players.
ugh, we’re getting into fine distinctions. i see your point. yes, a small market team lives and dies by its farm system. a big market can supplement their homegrown talent with free agent talent. THAT I agree with. But to say, ""Big market teams don’t need to worry much about [international free agents] " is crazy. They have to worry less than a small market team, which isn’t what CHB is saying but whatever, but you can’t have a successful organization w/o dipping into non-US talent for your farm system or 40 man roster.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Eh
I really don’t think it matters for a team like the Yankees. Maybe they are the only ones though.
So you think that that the Yanks could shut down all international scouting and it wouldn’t “matter”? Wow.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Eh
I definitely think they could continue doing a half-assed job and it wouldn’t “matter.” They had 4 homegrown impact players last year (Jeter, Rivera, Posada, and Cano) and 3 of them were signed 15 years ago (pettitte was a FA). So yeah, I don’t think it matters much.
JOBA AND PHIL HUGHES SLOBBER
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Not to mention
their WS MVP was an international free agent.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Totally different than the unknown quantities that we were talking about. His signing was basically the same as signing an awesome major league FA.
Huh? CHB or anybody else weren’t making service time distinctions. We were just talking about international free agent players.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
I’m not making a service time distinction either. I’m making an impact time distinction. Sure the Yankees will splash around with a lot of money when the guy can come in and make an immediate impact – that’s not player development. They are not going to waste their time outbidding the reds to sign some 17 years old who may or may not pan out. They don’t need to do that.
Nobody was making impact time distinctions either… All of the discussion above just about international players (major league ready or not) as far as i can tell.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
The initial discussion
was about whether the draft would kill baseball in places like the Dominican Republic because teams wouldn’t invest in academies if another team could just swoop in and draft the player they had spent time and money developing. Don’t think veterans like Matsui have much to do with that discussion.
oh no?
It seems like the Yankees, Mets, etc are always signing the biggest prospects from asia and latin america to me
don’t mean to odd-man rush you here birdman, but you keep twisting words around here.
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 7:01 PM EST up reply actions
i know
i was just using that as an example. shoulda highlighted the service time part.
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 7:03 PM EST up reply actions
btw
What you’re saying and what CHB is saying is subtlety different. CHB is saying big market teams DON’T have to worry about international free agents. You’re saying big market teams have to worry about international free agents LESS than a small market team. It’s small but very important difference.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
I mean you don’t actually agree CHB’s point that “Big market teams don’t need to worry much about [international free agents] because they can sign anyone good who’s already here.” Seriously, you’re just disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
flat out wrong?
did they or did they not just win the WS? have they or have they not competed at the highest of levels for the past…well…many years? i didnt say limit themselves to US players, i just said they can sign any player they want that is already established here.
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
yea thats what i'm getting at
1. i dont have curly hair and 2. seriously birdman. go eat a fucking porcupine.
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
haha
never heard that one before, but I like it!
I have curly hair. When it’s not cut. Maybe he got us confused?
well i am supposedly your alter ego
so its probably an honest mistake
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
and when did i say the farm system doesnt matter?
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
well I didn't say the farm system doesn't matter
I said what do the Yankees care about player development?
have they or have they not competed at the highest of levels for the past…well…many years?
Yes, and they did it by signing international players.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Like I said, their world series MVP wan an international player. Not to mention, Mariano. Two important pieces I would say.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Cano as well. Melky too. That’s five players and counting.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
huh? Where do you get 5?
You’ve named 3 (if you count Matsui). Or are you naming the guys they developed 15 years ago still????
Argh, my bad, that’s four. But Edwir Ramírez is a guy they signed out of the DR so that’s technically five. But he sucked.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
haha
You’re really grasping at straws county Melky and Edwar Ramirez.
I give you points for originality though – I’ve NEVER heard anybody even come close to saying that the Yankees owe their success to their international scouting and development.
Yankees owe their success to their international scouting and development.
And I never said that.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
you didn't?
have they or have they not competed at the highest of levels for the past…well…many years?
Yes, and they did it by signing international players.
Yeah so. Please reread what I’ve wrote and think hard about the difference between what’s there and what you’re interpreting.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
what??
You just attributed their success directly to their signing of international players. I don’t know how else to interpret that other than directly.
This is exactly what I’m talking about you. You fail to realize that there’s a difference between attributing success to something and attributing success to ONE factor as “Yankees owe their success to their international scouting and development” suggest. I never said the later. OK?
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
can you please do the same?
this all started from your misinterpretation of what i said. i strongly suggest reading the comment, stepping away from the keyboard, contemplating what the said comment actually means, then drafting a thoughful response that, you know, doesnt twist the words around.
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
cabrera wasnt that great either!
and you’re still getting off the point here.
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
and what is the point then?
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
unless the one who is actually curly-haired said that they didnt need to sign international FAs at all, then nobody ever said that. all i said was that they can worry less about it because, assuming that prospect becomes a solid player, teams with money to spend like the yankees will have a much better shot at getting them when they come out of an entry level deal (that goes for the top domestic FAs/prospects too actually). according to you, i said completely ignore international scouting.
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
but hey, mariano and matsui aren’t important right.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Well for this conversation right they're not.
Mariano was developed FIFTEEN YEARS AGO which I’ve already explained is before the era in which the Yankees outspent the next highest payroll by 50% and so didn’t need to focus on international prospects. And Matsui wasn’t an international prospect – he was a proven professional.
Ok, so? We’re talking about international players right?
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
haha
can professional veterans be scouted, developed and drafted in a hypothetical international draft???
You do realize that international amateurs can’t be drafted either.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
dude...
did you read any of this thread? That’s what the whole debate was about until you took issue with twisted saying that the big market teams don’t have to worry about international prospects.
But even if we’re not talking about potentially draftable players, does Matsui count as a prospect? Come on. Was Ichiro a prospect?
don’t have to worry about international prospects.
CHB NEVER said prospects. NEVER. Which you said fair enough earlier on.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
first stop calling me that...you're being a real prick
and two….
the big market teams don’t need to worry much about those guys because they can sign anyone good who’s already here. those great prospects can go sign with whatever team they want. if they’re any good, they’ll gravitate toward the yankees etc anyways once they become FAs.
yes i did
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Giving you guys your own medicine.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
I’m being no more snarky than you guys are on a regular basis.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
yea but i dont call ppl names in my snarkiness
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
Oh come on, dude, I don’t keep a tally of name calling but I’ve been as civil as you guys typically are.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
it’s about on par with guys, like i said. i don’t know if it’s a personal attack though. CHB cracks me up personally.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
good for you
i still dont really get the “on par with you guys” thing.
personally, i think you need to grow up.
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
It means it pretty much in line in terms of tone and politeness with you guys. Hell, I’ve seen O’sfan21 revel in the fact that he’s snarky.
personally, i think you need to grow up.
Alright, fine, my bad, I like to think I’m a civil, mature person so I’ll apologize here.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
give me a break.
In fact, I’m always willing to admit a mistake. Something you NEVER do.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
That's another thing you always say.
But I didn’t say anything about you being willing to admit when you make a mistake. I said that whenever you make a personal attack you say it’s the same as I say even though I haven’t made any personal attacks.
I said that whenever you make a personal attack you say it’s the same as I say even though I haven’t made any personal attacks.
Huh? You mean to tell me that you haven’t made condescending/patronizing remarks in this thread. Give me a break.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
We've already had this debate.
In my opinion there’s a very clear difference between making condescending remarks about a person’s argument and calling a person names, but you don’t share that opinion.
Come on, CHB was meant to be fun. And it wasn’t even directed at you! It amazes me how you two are two peas in a pod. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Maybe that isn’t a personal attack – I’ll admit that I had never heard of that and I surely wasn’t insulted (it takes a lot more than that to insult me it should be clear by now).
It is funny by the way that Carl Everett came up with that nickname (thank you wikipedia). Talk about a nutjob…
i'm not offended by it either
id rather not be called that tho just so birdman can attempt to make it sound like he knows everything when, in fact, he was totally misinterpreting my statement (common theme around here)
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
if we’re talking about prospects, fine. I would still argue that eschewing international market for amateur talent is a bad move, even for the Yanks.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Well that wasn't the debate
Of course I don’t think it’s a good idea, but I think the Yankees can afford to not put a lot of thought or effort into it. It’s the same way they don’t have to worry about giving up their draft picks by signing every Type A FA year after year. It just doesn’t matter that much for them.
Fine, whatever, we disagree. The Red Sox, for example, spends enormous amount of money in finding and developing international talent. Yes, the Yanks won this year with Mariano being the lone player developed internationally (and yes that was 15 year ago, but he was still developed an international prospect), but that doesn’t mean they can sustain success w/o developing international talent.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
I guess we'll see.
It’s just hard for me to see how it matters for them though unless they institute a salary cap or something. From their perspective I’d just assume save my money for sure things like Sabathia and Douchera.
The Yanks will miss the playoffs, like they did in 08, if they don’t develop international prospects.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
I don't know if there are any stats
but anecdotal evidence:
the Reds got Chapman
the A’s got Ynoa
the Twins got Sano
the Royals got Arguelles
I mean, the fact is that the Yankees could have gone in and picked up all of these players, but they didn’t. For them it makes a lot more sense to spend their money on their 25 man roster instead of spending more than average on 16 year olds. For the smaller market teams, it makes more sense to roll the dice on these talents because they have a great need and incentive to build from their farm systems.
It might not make any sense – but that is the way it is working right now.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
and how good are any of those teams?
the reds could be surprise (on paper of course) and the twins could be interesting, but beyond that, who cares? if signing international free agents was a major deal, then i would imagine teams like the yankees would have their hands in that pot.
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
they did have their hands in the pot, they were simply out bid. The Red Sox, for example, put in a $15M bid for Chapman but backed out after the bidding got crazy.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
for a team with that kinda dough to get outbid
i doubt they were that serious about it. plus they’ll do just fine without him. what ive been saying all along before you totally twisted my words around is that your top-of-the-line international FAs (or any FA for that matter) is going to gravitate toward those big market teams anyways. i didnt say they DONT have to scout. i said they have to worry less about it because they still have an incredibly legitimate shot at signing that prospect once he comes out of his entry level deal.
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Do you have statistics to back that up with big payroll teams not dominating the international market?
A’s grabbed Inoa. Twins grabbed Sano. Red grabbed Sano. There haven’t been many blue chip, free agents available so we’re talking about a very small sample size here. The last, big name international free agent that went to a big market team was Dice-K.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
I agree that the global series wont ever happen, at least not for a long time. But i think it would be interesting, some of the more developed nations are starting to retain talent and I dont think the talent is that far off.
Also, i disagree about your points on the international draft. It would actually give players less incentive to come to the US because their payday’s would be less (if you have one team to negotiate with then you cant ask for as much). Also, one player going to the reds doesnt prove anything, the teams with large pockets still are able to spend more on scouting and players. Being able to fund finding hidden gems is just as important as throwing the most money at the biggest name. A draft wouldnt fix that but it would make international FA paydays less.
This is all a moot point because an international draft will never happen because foreign countries would have to consent to it and it just would be a messy ordeal.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jan 21, 2010 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Two things
I doubt the short term drop-off in pay would offset the incentive to come to the major leagues where the top talent gets paid way, way, way more than the top talent in the DR could ever be paid. But the players definitely wouldn’t be happy to see their bonuses get cut (which would be basically the only change for them).
I’m not saying one player proves anything, but there is a pattern of the alledged top-talent going anywhere but the top payroll teams – probably because those teams are spending their money on the proven free agents instead of on the draft or international prospects. For whatever reason, the system has balanced out in that regard.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
Yahoo shows the O's some love...
Nice article on how things might start going right for the O’s:
"If you know how to cheat, start now." - Earl Weaver
does this mean we can’t “sneak up and surprise” teams? I liked it when no one took us seriously and he kicked their cans (well, at least for the 1st half of the season the past x years)
"...I got the most gentlemanly player in junior my last year. I'm a gentleman, always a gentleman." - Matt Bradley, 1/20/10
With the way the schedule starts
I don’t think we’re sneaking up on anybody. Not a lot of wins in the first 2 months.
Thanks a lot, MLB unbalanced schedule.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
The new spring training site has me really pumped.
A couple years from now, after the Orioles have won the World Series, one of the talking points we’ll have of why they won will be the new spring training facility in Sarasota. I’m really only a quarter joking. It’s little things like this that really do make a difference.
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey
I really hope
we don’t sign Hisanori Takahashi. It would be better to sign somebody who already knows the MLB batters. It would be a different story if he was in his 20’s, but he’s turning 35.
The owner of...... www.birdswatcher.com
the whole “soft-tossing” thing concerns me too. Only one guy in my mind ever excelled with that skill set and his name was Maddux, Greg.
"...I got the most gentlemanly player in junior my last year. I'm a gentleman, always a gentleman." - Matt Bradley, 1/20/10
Tim Wakefield?
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
It's impossible to argue when the bar is Greg Maddux
but don’t think that soft-tossers are completely useless. Lots of guys bring a lot to a team without velocity. I doubt this guy is a guy the Orioles should go after, but just because he’s a soft-tosser doesn’t mean we should automatically walk away.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
Luke
“It doesn’t help me in my own personal deals, in contract negotiations, it hurts me. … But I am being a team player. That’s not bragging; that is the truth.”
He’s right but I doubt it cost him a whole lot of money. He went from $1.3M to $4M. He could probably would have received a bit more as a position player but I can’t be too sympathetic toward a guy who just received a $4M paycheck to play baseball.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Luke keeps
saying he’s a team player. But he sure has been complaining a lot the past two seasons.
The owner of...... www.birdswatcher.com
I don't blame him
I mean, it’s a touch whiny, but they’re out there talking about putting Garrett Atkins at 1B and telling Luke no way jose and for what reason exactly?
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Eh
Who cares what their reason is? He’s paid to do what the team wants him to do, not to worry about their reasons for making certain moves.
by
“who cares what their reason is?” I mean that he shouldn’t care what their reason is – at least not publicly. I care what their reason is like you guys, but I don’t want him complaining about it.
Conan got big leagued.
And I don’t blame Luke for a little whining if the team told him he’d be doing one thing when they signed him and now they’re asking him to do another. I don’t want him going all JayPay though.
Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt
Pretty much
I mean, everyone expects a guy to want to play, and Luke is a little young to play DH. If I was him, I’d want to play in the field too, especially when your abilities there are in question. He’s overshadowed by Pie on defense, and Reimold on offense, so even though he’s the more complete player, he sit on the bench.
Oh, he made $2.4M last year, not $1.3M. Leading the team in HR will get you a pretty good raise.
Yeah
but I haven’t heard anywhere that the team told him they would give him a shot at 1B – have you?
I think the only reason he played there last year
was we needed a 1B like real bad. Huff had just left and they did a 1B by committee with Luke, Wiggy and then called Aubrey up. It was the end of the season so it was a good time for experimenting.
He’s more of an OF and would be more marketable as one as he’s average or better in the OF, but his bat doesn’t play at 1B, as they say.
Oh, yeah, but Atkins bat
TOTALLY plays at first
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
gah stop with this bat playing a position thing
it only matters if they dont put bats at other positions. (the orioles of course, arent going to put bats at other positions)
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, this
Atkins’ bat is going to play or it’s not, no matter what fielding glove he wears. If it doesn’t, he gets to ride the pine or play for the BJs or something. There isn’t a bigger bat on the team at that position, and I haven’t heard squat about them signing Branyan.
My point is that no team looking for a 1B is going to seriously consider Luke there, but they will look at him as an OF.
i agree
although i do think they’ll need to get luke’s bat in as often as possible if crede and atkins are indeed the corner IFs. maybe they can start him everyday when he’s on his hot steak and leave him on the bench when hes cold :)
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
right. look should say thank you because all that praying got him such a big bump in his contract. It’s hard to justify overpaying a one-dimensional player (okay, mayeb he does have OF skills, but the O’s are working on squashing that).
"...I got the most gentlemanly player in junior my last year. I'm a gentleman, always a gentleman." - Matt Bradley, 1/20/10
I would love to know the reason myself. I’m guessing they think he sucks defensively at 1B. If the O’s could convert Luke into a viable 1B, they would increase his trade value.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
He really
didn’t look to smooth at all the little he played at 1st last season.
The owner of...... www.birdswatcher.com
I don't remember thinking
that Scott didn’t look good in left. In fact I remember him looking good to my eyes…?
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
I mean
He didn’t look bad, but he’s definitely not smooth out there, doesn’t look to have a lot of range, and doesn’t have that good of an arm.
he doesnt look to have a whole lot of range
because he doesnt. his arm isnt awful tho.
by twistedlogic on Jan 21, 2010 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Hey Luke - you know what else would help you in your "personal deals"?
Being a little more consistent.
Z's boyfriend signs a minor league contract with the White Sox.
Long may you run DC.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
SHUT UP you guys!
we’re not even DATING! I hardly KNOW him.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Bet he's still on you iPhone Favorites, though....
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
obviously a touchy subject
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Crosby vs. ovechkin, tonight!
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jan 21, 2010 4:00 PM EST reply actions
Go caps! And suck it Crosby...I mean...when you lose...
On another note…does anybody hate the people of Shmuck’s blog as much as I do? They’re annoying as hell.
Real World Series? Yes please!
The annual fiction that playoffs among various NPL scrubinos qualifies them to play the AL champs in something called the World Series is more than a little embarrassing. Americans are forced to squirm before anybody with even a mild interest in the sport on the rest of the planet as we pay homage the god of Pretend League Equality because, guess what, the U.S. sport’s Pretend Commissioner’s family owns a franchise in the inferior league. And that’s that.
No one can seriously contend that the leagues are equal—or even close. The pathetic fig leaf inadequately covering Bud Lite’s junk is the occasional WS anomaly (e.g. ‘06 and ’08), which simply demonstrates that the ol’ chestnut Anything Can Happen in a Short Series has to get its statistical due. The ASG, meanwhile— an even shorter series, and riddled with competition issues—has still managed to prove pretty indicative of the state of parity over recent years. But IL play over the past 5 is doubtless the capper: 714-546. Yikes. And yet PC Bud has no intention of doing the obvious— standarizing the MLB rules, making the game uniform and closing the talent gap.
Which leaves what? Well, briefly put, an NPL champeen should have to prove it can beat the Japanese Central League winner — or somebody — before qualifying to become world champions. And this will happen immediately after beachfront property in Moscow gets below 5000 rubles/hectare.
Hey, smile: he’s Your Pretend Commish through ‘12— and no one’s going to do anything about it. So put on your best poop-eatin’ grin, sit there and wonder aloud during the next AS Game, “Say, how would these guys do against the Venezuelan Coastal League All Stars…”
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
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