An alternate view on the Miguel Tejada signing
by Stacey on Jan 24, 2010 10:08 PM EST
in Commentary & Analysis
179 comments
When news of the Miguel Tejada signing broke, duck posted a great piece in support of the signing. I don't share all of duck's opinions, but I was planning on letting well enough alone because how many times does one need to read about Miguel Tejada? But I was reading James Baker's piece on Oriole Post discussing FanFest and the Miguel Tejada signing and he mentioned what I said at the FanFest forum. Specifically, this is what he wrote:
The question was posed our forum and the panel seemed rather non-plussed about the whole affiar [sic]. Stacey from Camden Chat seemed downright against it. In her view every Miguel Tejada is "taking at bats away from Felix Pie, Michael Aubrey and Brandon Snyder." To her signing both Garrett Atkins and Miguel Tejada is "redundant". I didn't respond at the time because I didn't want to monopolize the forum with this issue but I really disagree with that assertion.
While only a handful of people (if that) remember what I said about Miguel Tejada at FanFest, now that it has been documented I want to expound.
First of all, one of the things I was most nervous about when participating in a live forum was that 1) I wouldn't be able to think on my toes, 2) I wouldn't be able to recall some needed info, and that 3) my brain wouldn't send the necessary words to my mouth at the right time (this is sometimes an issue for me).
The quotes that James attributed to me are correct (I don't remember saying Brandon Snyder, but the sentiment is the same regardless), however I was trying to fit a bunch of thoughts and feelings and ideas into a short time and it probably made it sound like I was 100% against it. That's not actually the case, although I'm honestly not thrilled. It's just that when I write something here I have the ability to take as much time as I need, triple check facts, and generally make sure that I'm sure of my feelings before I hit publish. Anyone who has noticed how long it takes me to publish a post game can attest to that.
Anyway, on to Tejada. A word that I used in addition to redundant was overkill because of the fact that Garrett Atkins is already on the team. If I were to pick between Atkins and Tejada I would pick Tejada, hands down. I wasn't too upset when they signed Atkins believing that he'd play third base either for the entire year or until Josh Bell was ready and that first base would be filled either by Luke Scott, one of the young(ish) players in our system, or through some other option that provides a better alternative to Garrett Atkins at 1B. So basically, if the Orioles could go back in time and NOT sign Garrett Atkins then I'd be just fine with Tejada re-joining the team.
I believe Miguel Tejada will hit in 2010 and I believe that he'll be a positive addition to the lineup. There is the question of his move to third base, but I'm not worried about that personally. He won't be Brooks over there but he is a good athlete. He'll pick it up. He'll most likely be worth the money he's being paid as $6M isn't a ton in baseball terms and he's been worth more than that every year.
It's not about the money, it's not about the production. It's about adding another older player to the mix who won't be there for the Orioles after 2010.
As I was quoted, every game played by Tejada and Atkins takes away at-bats from other players. Tejada will help the team win in 2010 but probably not in 2011. Atkins is a reclamation project who is a long shot to get better. He is 30 years old which isn't old, but still on the wrong side of the odds. It makes decent sense to sign Tejada as a productive stopgap or Atkins in the hopes he'll rebound; it doesn't make sense to sign both.
Michael Aubrey is a former first round draft pick who was plagued with injuries in the minors but who has shown defensive prowess and who put up a good showing in his limited time with the Orioles in 2009. Rhyne Hughes, obtained in the Gregg Zaun trade, has shown the potential for power in the minors. And if you just want someone to fill in at first in the meantime, Ty Wigginton and Luke Scott are already here.
I recognize that the Orioles needed to obtain an corner infielder for 2010. But in signing two, neither of which are really a part of the Orioles future, is doing just what I said at FanFest: it's taking at-bats away from young players who, while perhaps a long shot, might be a part of that future. We don't necessarily know what those guys will bring us. Miggi and Atkins? We pretty much know.
When the first pictures from Spring Training make their way to us and I see Miggi in an Orioles uniform I'm probably going to be excited. He is going to make the team better. And maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised with Garrett Atkins. Maybe he'll turn it around and hit 25 home runs and get his option picked up for 2011 and help the Orioles to their first playoff run in years. If that happens I will never be so happy to have been wrong.
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What? Mods don't agree?
Whatever will become of Camden Chat?
So, apparently, the scorecard is…
duck – I love the signing
Stacey – not thrilled, but can live with it
zknower – hates it with the passion of a thousand dying suns
No one can ever accuse us of groupthink here…
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Well
Johnny Pops (sp?) probably would…….
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
by NewYorkOriole on Jan 25, 2010 7:51 AM EST up reply actions
I would never presume to speculate
on what JP thinks.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I try to stay away completely on what he thinks.
It’s not that I never agree with or think he doesn’t add value. It is that on those occassions when we don’t, we both have a well honed ability to irritate the other.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I don't like this move.
Why are we doing this?
Stacey’s point about giving ABs to other folks who could use them is spot on and reason #1 we shouldn’t be bringing Tejada back. His personality is another reason – the consistent lying, the prima donna behavior, the laziness, showing up late, dogging it on ground balls, “I am the Leader of this Team” bullshit etc. etc. all from a guy who hasn’t had an .800+ OPS the past three seasons.
This seems to me like a “Ehhhh…what the fuck? He’s got name recognition.” move by the front office. Nothing more. We’re better off developing our players than dealing with this dude and his moodiness for the season.
ZOMG, me and JP agreeing
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Oh come now...
…it’s not like it’s the first time. Let’s keep the acting to the stage and screen, shall we?
by Jonny Pops on Jan 26, 2010 5:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Seriously...
you guys are usually like BFFs. I wasn’t surprised at all.
Now ME and you agreeing? That’s seventh sign of the apocalypse material.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
We're friendly....
….until he turns into the CC Minister of Truth. Then I start playing Emmanuel Goldstein and the message threads turn into “The Hate”.
j'accuse!
see? it can be done.
uh, anyways…
"If they pitch to you, make them pay."
--Diamond Dave to the Phenom
excellent point
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Because totally unemotional and detached writing is so interesting to read?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
it's a fanfest thing, you wouldn't understand :-P
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Right after I posted that
I realized I was gonna get hell for saying it. I’m glad you got to it first.
I tend to agree
although I don’t think it’s much to fret over.
As of right now, Miggyiyi is not going to take any at-bats from anyone until Josh Bell sticks his foot in the door.
The 1st base problem is one that I really don’t think the team has an answer to. I think the popular idea here on Camden Chat is to put Reimold or Scott at first, Pie in left and have whoever is left out DH. I would think that would be the best solution I’ve seen but there’s no chance in hell the powers that be will make that happen.
So the only at-bats we’re losing are from Pie, Scott, and Michael Aubrey. Personally, I think Pie will get a lot of playing time for a “4th outfielder” probably something like a 3.5th outfielder. I’m not as high on Scott as you. I think he can obviously be a monster but his slumps are soooooo hard to watch. I liked Aubrey when I saw him and I do hope he gets a chance to make the team out of Spring Training but there’s no way you want to pencil him in as your opening day starter.
As it stands, Scott looks to fit in as DH and Atkins at first or something like that.
still, I think by June if it looks like good Garrett won’t be showing up, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him gone.
I do wish we had a real first-baseman.
scared of the future MASN ad . . .
Does anyone else find it disturbing that we now have the infield trio of “Miggy, Izzy, and Wiggy???” Is Peter Angelos our Scrooge McDuck? I mean this really could be dangerous if MASN cuts an advert with these three in mind:
Life is like a hurricane here in O’s burg
Race cars, lasers, aeroplanes – it’s a bird blur
You might solve a mystery or rewrite history
Bird Tales, Oo-oo
Tales of derring-do, bad and good luck tales, oo-oo
D-d-d-danger, watch behind you – there’s a stranger out to find you
What to do? Just grab onto some Bird Tales, oo-oo!
Not pony tails or cotton tails but Bird Tales, oo-oo!
When it seems they’re headed for the final curtain
Bold deduction never fails, that’s for certain
The worst of messes become successes!
Bird Tales, Oo-oo
Tales of derring-do, bad and good luck tales, oo-oo
Not pony tails or cotton tails but Bird Tales, oo-oo!
"What good are fans. You can't eat applause for breakfast" -Bob Dylan
I'm basically with Stacey on this one, I think
Miggi still has strong upsides, for sure. But I just don’t know if he’s worth the drama, and I don’t see how he helps the longterm plan that much.
"Believe it or not, I read the paper." - Nick Markakis
nothing is worth the drama
i want a drama-free team. hiring a prima-don who was all “trade me! psych! no, i meant it! psych!” is basically asking for drama.
miggy is hoping to have a great first half and then get traded to a contender at the deadline. but nobody’s going to let macphail fleece them for tejada at the deadline, particularly when it’s his 36 47 year old self and he’s hitting .263 because of the AL east pitching staffs.
and just in case you forgot his habits roch will remind you of them:
He usually was the last player to report each day (reporters would keep one eye on the back door of the clubhouse and another on the clock, wondering how he’d have time to dress and get on the field for the mandatory stretch). He didn’t run out every ground ball, didn’t always look interested or motivated, as another losing season evolved. He once suggested over the winter that a trade would be a good idea. His leadership skills are much more evident on a winner.
Oh, yippee. Did you guys forget all that? Did you forget how Miggy acts when things aren’t going well?
But B-Rob wants him on the team!!!! Well, who gives a f*ck? Clinton Portis wanted to tell Daiel Snyder who to sign too, but that doesn’t make it a good idea.
This is the most un-McPhail signing I’ve seen since Andy took the reins, and I’m hugely disappointed by it.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Can people grow?
I am not defending Miggy here, but if this signing happened without the first stint here, I think Z you would not hate it with a passion.
Also, I think MacPhail thinks a dose of humility and a different climate is exactly what he needs to flourish. Not only is this is this a cheaper, older version of Miggy, but also a better supporting cast around him.
I don’t hate this signing, actually it might turn out to be ok.
A good cigar is like a beautiful chick with a great body who also knows the American League box scores. ~M*A*S*H, Klinger, "Bug-Out," 1976
by Birdland in NC on Jan 25, 2010 5:38 AM EST up reply actions
yea ppl can grow
but hes like 60 years old. he should have grown up already
by twistedlogic on Jan 25, 2010 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not going to convince you on this, am I z?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
nope.
time will tell.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
I don't know about this actually
I remember what people said about him when he was here before, I remember him asking for a trade, but will that be him again? For one thing he is in an entirely different place in his career than he was back then. He’s had so many things happen to him since then, he just had to change positions and take a 50% pay cut to keep a job, etc. One thing Scott Garceau said at FanFest is that he thinks that Miggi has probably been humbled by what he’s been through the past few years and it could change his outlook on a number of things.
As for Brian wanting him to be signed, Andy called him to ask his opinion. Not to ask about Tejada’s skills I’d imagine, but about what he thinks of Miggi as a teammate. Seeing how happy Brian was talking about it and hearing what Nick had to say makes me wonder about all of that clubhouse cancer talk from a few years ago. I know that it’s been a few years and they might be repeating the company line, but saying things like “top 5 teammates of all time” and such makes me wonder.
I went over to Crawfish Boxes to see what they had to say about Miggi, wondering if it was of the good riddance variety or not. It wasn’t. They said that the Astros always raved about his clubhouse presence, and while the Astros did win 85ish games last year they were losers in 2008.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I’m not sure Brian Roberts knows that much about what a good teammate actually is. He’s never been on anything even close to a winning team has he?
Also you can be a fine teammate and still be a horrible influence on young players. Showing up late, giving half effort on certain plays/ABs, appearing to give up on games/seasons, etc is all possible while still supporting your teammates and being a “good guy” to them.
exactly. and brian roberts is a lollygagger.
he probably learned it from miggy.
in all seriousness, remember brian’s unmotivated first half last year? when he had to have a meeting with trembley. that way miggyball, all the way.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Not sure if the first point has any relevance ...
… but I’d agree with the second point whole heartedly.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
how does it not have any relevance? Stacey was using BRob’s views of Tejada being a good teammate as an argument in favor of him. I was responding to that. Maybe you didn’t read the whole thread or something.
It may suprise you to learn ....
…. that others besides yourself know how to read.
Yes I read the whole thread. What I was refering to was that I don’t think being on a winning or losing team has a whole lot of relevence to the concept of being a good teammate. About the only impact that come to mind is that one might be willing to put up with a poor teammate a little more when the team is winning. But that does not directly relate to the concept of being a good teammate. I’m not sure what you thought I was referring to.
You might want to consider dialing down on the sensitivity. It seems anytime someone disagrees with you, you take as a personal affront. Even when I agree with you and think you hit the major point square on, you get all touchy about my not agreeing to what is the minor point.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
You might want to consider dialing down on the sensitivity. It seems anytime someone disagrees with you, you take as a personal affront. Even when I agree with you and think you hit the major point square on, you get all touchy about my not agreeing to what is the minor point.
Ding, ding, ding. That and being waaay to caught up in “winning” arguments.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
LOL
I don’t see anyone else complaining about my collegiality… regularly.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
if you have other instances in mind, feel free to point them… if I’m hated man, I want to know!
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
didn't say anything about being hated or even disliked
I enjoy chatting with you, but obviously you do your share of arguing.
Obviously I voice my opinion when I disagree with something. We all do. I don’t care about “winning” disagreements though. I readily concede the validity of viewpoints that are different from mine.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
ok...
You keep saying that every single time we argue about something, but I’ve really yet to see you do it. But you sure do talk about it a lot for some reason.
I do it all the same, hell, I even made an apology to twisty last time!
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
yea
after you shoved your opinion down my throat. an opinion completely based on you just not reading what i actually had to say.
by twistedlogic on Jan 27, 2010 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
It’s kind of interesting that this very conversation illustrates my point!
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
in that
we have the same conversation every time? About how I only want to win argument and you’re perfectly willing to admit when you’re wrong, but then you argue with me about it until one of us goes to sleep for the night? Yeah I’d say it illustrates one of our points at least…
the length of thread is an indicator of whether one wants to “win” the argument… ok, feel free to believe that. but yeah, i’ll admit i enjoy seeing the lengths you’ll go to discount another person’s viewpoint no matter how fair and rationale that point of view may be. that usually eggs me on to keep talking. i can’t remember the specifics but the conversation about whether player x was outside of the base path sticks out. i couldn’t believe the lengths you went to discount anybody’s opinion but your own despite physical evidence.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
See there you go again putting this all on me. Comments like these “I enjoy seeing the lengths you’ll go to…” are really pretty ridiculous when you’re obviously going to the exact same lengths to argue with me.
I mean am I arguing with myself right now? It takes two to tango. Own it.
As I already said, it’s about arguing. Arguing happens on this website everyday, dude. It’s about acknowledging the validity of another person’s viewpoint. To acknowledge that what someone says may some “truth” to it. OK, again, it’s not about arguing.
I mean, again, this conversation illustrates my point. Instead of acknowledging, hey, I might not really acknowledge people’s opinion, you do everything you can avoid it. I’ll own up to the fact that I argue with people. But I’ll also own up to the fact that I’m willing to acknowledge other people’s opinion as valid.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
I think I acknowledge when I’m wrong all the time (like yesterday when you or others informed me that the Blue Jays younger players were more highly regarded as prospects than I thought). I don’t know why you keep harping on that. Maybe you just don’t notice every single thing I say and look specifically for reasons to argue with me? This conversation would be a good example of that since you only chimed in to bust balls…
I think I acknowledge when I’m wrong all the time (like yesterday when you or others informed me that the Blue Jays younger players were more highly regarded as prospects than I thought).
Fine, fair enough, you did do that yesterday.
I don’t know why you keep harping on that. Maybe you just don’t notice every single thing I say and look specifically for reasons to argue with me?
Believe me, I don’t look for specific reasons to argue with you. If anything, i avoid your threads.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
except
in this thread when you clearly went out of your way to chime in when you weren’t involved in the original discussion? Funny how we’re talking in generalizations constantly and then there’s specific examples to disprove them…
If you don’t believe me, fine, but I generally avoid everything you write for the reasons I just mentioned. That doesn’t mean there’s exceptions.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
I just love when I see 24 new comments
And they all end up being you two bickering like an old married couple.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Believe me, I don’t look for specific reasons to argue with you. If anything, i avoid your threads.
um…gonna have to disagree with you on that one.
by twistedlogic on Jan 27, 2010 7:59 PM EST up reply actions
Just the logs man, most of the conversations i’ve had with o’sfan21 is because he’s responded to something I said, I almost never respond to something he says unless he’s already responded to me. For example, yesterday, I responded to something you said about the Yanks and International players. He then responded to me. I’ve pretty much avoided responding to his comments but there are a few exceptions. like i said, if you don’t believe, check the logs.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
You named one example where I responded to you, but you jumped in right here for no reason. 1-1. Examples are pesky like that.
sure, one example doesn’t carry much weight. but you did the same thing just now with, "like yesterday when you or others informed me that the Blue Jays younger players were more highly regarded as prospects than I thought). " At least I was willing to acknowledge your point.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Well sure – I don’t have the energy to look through logs and find all the times that you’ve jumped in to argue with me, but when you say you don’t do it and then you do forgive me if I’m not convinced.
i never said i don’t do it. in fact, i said i’m sure there are exceptions. but, again, believe me, I generally avoid your posts. you don’t believe me, fine. whatever.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Ok
whatever! Last post! Except for when you respond to this one and then I respond to that one and you respond to that one and I respond to that one and you respond to that one and I respond to that one and you respond to that one and I respond to that one and you respond to that one and I respond to that one and you respond to that one, but it’s all because I can’t see anybody’s point of view but mine!
typo, my bad.
As I already said, it’s NOT about arguing.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Where exactly am I getting personal?
You raised an issue and I responded to it. I thought there was a chance that you didn’t actually read the whole thread and so you didn’t get why I was bringing that up. Maybe it’s you that’s taking things personally?
Again though I don’t see how somebody who has no idea what a winning clubhouse can say whether or not a given player can be a contributing member of one (that’s after all the point of being a good teammate right?).
I didn't realize that being a good teammate only applied to winning teams.
If that is the case, it’s a useless discussion in so far as Tejada and the O’s are concerned, as they haven’t been a winning team for more than a decade.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
What I mean to say
is that you can be a good teammate without ever playing on a winning team, but I’m not sure you can really understand what kind of personalities are good for a successful clubhouse if you’ve never been a part of one. So, the fact that BRob says that Miggi’s a good teammate doesn’t really mean much to me – to me it means that he likes hanging out and playing with him. It doesn’t at all mean that he’s not a cancer.
So you are saying that Roberts might think Tejada is a good teammate due to his getting along with him ...
… but not be able to recognize how he might be a cancer with regard to a winning team’s attitude?
That could be. I’m still somewhat skeptical that it is because Brian has spent his career as an O. But then it’s easy for people to think I/m from Missouri.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I'm not as passionately against it as you,
… but I think Stacy makes a good point and I too am concerned about how Tejada plays in the clubhouse.
On the plus side, here is an opportunity for someone like Nick, or Weiters or Adam Jones to assert themselves as a team leader. Sort of like a baptism by fire.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
He doesn't help the long-term plan
He’s a one-year stopgap that hit .300 last year, as opposed to a one-year stop gap that batted .220 last year.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Tejada, Atkins
Stacey is right, if Atkins never happened it would make the Tejada signing more enjoyable. But as it stands, I’m sure each contract is laden with clauses that give MacPhail an opportunity to ditch these guys if it isn’t working. I will say, neither player is a spring chicken. Tejada is playing now for his future more than anyone. Maybe that desperation will pan out for the O’s in the form of productivity. Atkins, I fear, will be the Jay Gibbons of the 2010s. I really hope not.
by OldBay83 on Jan 25, 2010 12:00 AM EST via mobile reply actions
My feeling overall isn't bad for this...
Several people have pointed out multiple reasons this works for us. They are 1 year chances— shots at getting something for very little to nothing (i.e.Josh Hamilton, Carlos Pena). If they didn’t spend money everyone on here would be clamoring for AMP’s head. Yes we spent a lot more taking a chance than say Cincy or TB did. Now as for taking at bats from the youngsters— there’s a reason TB let us have Hughes, a reason ppl aren’t climbing over each other trying to get L. Scott and a reason Cle gave up on Aubrey. I know they may resurrect themselves here or maybe Scott does become a huge commodity later this season. If they don’t play well then we at least took a shot. At some point it’s not about talent but about knowing what it takes to win and doing it. Tejada and Atkins have both won at some point in their career. None of the guys you mentioned have. Teams contending want to trade for a guy who’s been there not some unknown hot streak performer.
wtf?
If they didn’t spend money everyone on here would be clamoring for AMP’s head.
Not on this blog, we wouldn’t. We don’t care how much money he spends in 2010. We care that it’s spent wisely.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
I like the Tejada signing even with Atkins, but I hated the Atkins signing at the time and I still do. There’s nothing wrong with paying a solid player (even an older veteran) less than what he’s worth on a 1 year deal, even if you aren’t contending. To put it another way…
Refusing to sign Tejada because we’d already signed Atkins would make me hate the Atkins signing more.
+1
I never saw what Atkins was likely to add that couldn’t be done with the existing pieces (Scott, Wiggy, Aubrey, Snyder). Miggy actually fills a hole in the lineup pretty well, wont be any more of a defensive liability than any of the other options, will almost certainly put a few more fans in the seats for the duration of his contract, and might just help with the intangible (God I hate that word, but there you go) of getting this team mentally firing on all cylinders. Sounds like a good deal for $6M. As O’s stopgap deals go, this should be one of the better ones.
by fishoutawata on Jan 25, 2010 5:27 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with you Stacey....
but what do you think of what the guy on Camden Crazies proposed; moving Reimold to first and slotting Pie at LF… Obviously not gonna happen after this signing, but in my opinion the best allocation of talent for the O’s.
As I was quoted, every game played by Tejada and Atkins takes away at-bats from other players. Tejada will help the team win in 2010 but probably not in 2011. Atkins is a reclamation project who is a long shot to get better. He is 30 years old which isn’t old, but still on the wrong side of the odds.
Exactly.
Librarians are hiding something
And from whom, exactly, are those two players taking ABs at 3B in April 2010?
Hmmm?????
/like the grammar, z? :)
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
spot on. ;P
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
I fail to see it
If Luke Scott is not considered a viable option at 1B, I fail to see how this impacts Felix Pie at all.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
1) If Luke Scott can’t play first, he takes up more at-bats at DH
2) If Luke Scott is taking more at bats at DH, theres less for Reimold
3) If there’s less at bats at DH for Reimold, he takes up more in LF
4) If Nolan Reimold is taking up more at-bats in LF, theres less for Pie.
LUke Scott not playing first
was well decided BEFORE Miggy ever signed, therefore your chain of causative behavior fails at the first step.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I was only going from Luke not playing first -> Pie losing time
The logic’s still correct, its just not relevant to the Tejada signing. Luke Scott playing first would free up playing time for Pie, i just didnt bother to read the rest of the thread lol
Not a prob
Whether Luke should get the chance to play 1B (which I think he should) is an unrelated argument to the Tejada signing.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Well i think they're now related
Any chance of management changing their minds and trying Luke at 1st during spring training is now probably gone.
Well that's something else I take issue with
but whatever.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
As do I
I see no reason for the FO and DD to decide in January that it’s simply not possible for Luke to play 1B if they value his bat. At least give the guy a chance if he’s willing to try…and 6 games in September is not a chance.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
not to mention if it works out
The only thing it could do is increase his versatility to club and value in case of trade. It just makes so little sense to me.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I just don't get the downside of not trying Luke at 1B
What, Michael Aubrey gets fewer reps in ST?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
and if luke scott is traded
….problem solved
by twistedlogic on Jan 25, 2010 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
He can hit, and is an upgrade over Wiggy. Aside from Izzy who’s on the team for his glove, we have 8 guys who can hit (not sure what Atkins’s deal is) and that should no doubt help with the “get us around .500 program.”
However, I can’t see us holding on to him the whole season, unless Bell stinks up Norfolk. It really depends on how he’ll react if Bell is ready before the trade deadline, will be okay with it, or wil he have a kiniption. (sp) If he’s okay with being traded we could get another good prospect or two, depending on how strong he does before the deadline. Now if he freaks out then we’ve got a problem, but hopefully that won’t happen.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jan 25, 2010 9:03 AM EST reply actions
Honestly
Wiggy has hit about as well as Miggy over the past three seasons. Maybe even a little better.
No, he didn't
Wigginton
2009 OPS+ was 87
2008 OPS+ was 128
2007 OPS+ was 107
2006 OPS+ was 112
Tejada
2009 OPS+ was 109
2008 OPS+ was 92
2007 OPS+ was 109
2006 OPS+ was 126
Wigginton had ONE better year. Tejada has hit consistently better over the last four years, and his worst year was not as bad as Wigginton’s worst year. His best year was almost the equal of Wigginton’s best year.
Tejada’s been consistently better.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Eh
I guess Tejada was much better in 2006, but if you look at the last 3 years they’ve basically each had one year where they were MUCH better than the other and one year where they sucked compared to the other and then one year where they were basically the same.
My comment was over the past three years...
During that period:
Wiggy’s avg. OPS+: 107.33
Miggy’s: avg. OPS+: 103.33
So again, Wiggy hit about as well. Even a little better. I confined it to those three years because, having followed Miguel’s career, that’s when he really started to decline, particularly slugging wise, which I think we all will agree is likely to continue.
Is it mathmatically sound
to average OPS+ over a series of years?
And one good year by Ty Wigginton is the outlier. He’s never been that good before, and wasn’t that good again.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Technically no
But the average mark probably doesnt move that much season to season, so its likely still pretty accurate
I would venture it's more sound...
…than including a season four years ago from Tejada when he still had some power and was likely still on steroids. Ignoring a precipitous decline in his offensive output immediately thereafter.
But, listen the point is they are very close offensively nowadays. And, unfortunately, probably pretty close defensively as well. One has more star power, that’s all…and attitude.
I might have to schedule a doctors appointment ...
…. but I agree with both O’sFan and Jonny Pops assessment of these numbers.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Well, allow me to retort....
Really, I got nuthin’, I just wanted to use that.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I'm ok with Tejada and Atkins
Josh Bell needs at bats in the minors to try to learn to hit lefties …… either as a switch hitter or as a full time left handed hitter. Nobody knows how long that will take in Norfolk. If he is ready, bring him up to play 3B. Tejada won’t be blocking him. In fact, if Miggy is hitting his usual .300, maybe it’s time to have Izturis on the bench as a defensive replacement late in the game. Let Tejada slide over to SS? It is an option the team can consider if there isn’t much market for Miggy.
Atkins was a 1B until he got to Denver and found Helton there. Atkins could hit, so they played him at 3B. But he could hit. Atkins was a .290 to .305 hitter with 20 to 25 HR power in Colorado (no longer a HR hitters park). The Rockies had Ian Stewart waiting for a chance, so when a minor injury got Atkins off to a bad start last season, Stewart took his job. Atkins never got enough consistent work last year to get straightened out. Terry Crowley has looked at film and thinks he can fix Atkin’s problems. I don’t know about the rest of you, but if Atkins can hit .300 with 25 HRs again, I’ll be happy and probably won’t much care what Hughes/Aubrey/Moore or even Snyder are doing in Norfolk. I say give Crowley and Atkins some time and ABs to see what they can do. He could be our present 1B and perhaps for awhile, too.
Mucho gusto
Miggi plugs a hole at 3B, but he won’t block Bell if, a legitimate if, Bell does well at AAA. Bell has never played above AA, and he may need an entire year to be Major League ready. I would rather bring up a player a half a year late than a half a year early.
Atkins is now the first baseman presumptive. My guess is that management is not wedded to him, as would be the case if we had given him a pricey long term contract. If Snyder has a dynamite spring, and Atkins falters, I imagine that Snyder will displace Atkins.
I like Michael Aubrey, but management had a good look at him last fall, and they must have decided that he is not the answer.
So, I like the signing. I think that Tejada takes at bats from Wiggy and Michael Aubrey. In a perfect world, Tejada and Atkins will perform well, Bell and Snyder will tear up AAA, and we will flip Tejada and Atkins at the break for prospects.
I think that we are now a .500 team. I am giddy with the prospect.
I'm with zk on Tejada
I absolutely do not understand it and I cursed loudly at a senior citizen home when I heard. Only time will tell how it actually plays out, but I don’t see many positive paths from this.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
So let me get this straight...
You guys were fine with a 1-year experiment of a .220 hitting Garret Atkins at 3B, but not a .310 hitting Miguel Tejada?
Huh?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
IF and that is a big if
Tejada does well this year, what is the upside? He is only a 1 year guy. Its not really an experiment because he is so damn old that not much else can come from it. We are not going to compete this year, so why do we need the old/certain bat over the younger bad but maybe (just as big as that if) potential bat? We are still in the developmental stage and I just don’t understand dumping 6mil into a guy who can file for medicare in 5 or less years that has no possible future potential with this team.
Atkins has a .289 BA for his career, right? And he hit as high as .329 at his peak in Colorado. So why is he most certainly going to hit .220 for the rest of his career?
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
How is Garret Atkins any different?
Is Garrett Atkins here long-term? No. And did you SEE what his numbers were last year? Guys like him, at his age, don’t fall off a cliff offensively (especially playing in COL) and suddenly get it back.
I fully expect that Garret Atkins is done as a serviceable ML player.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
That's the thing about the Miggi signing that gets me.
I mean I guess you could say the root issue is actually the Atkins signing, but the fact is when they signed Miggi, Atkins was already here and you have to take that into account.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I don't
Atkins is a sunk cost – the dollars are spent, you’e not getting them back.
I would not pass on the chance to significantly – and I mean significantly – improve offensive production at 3B just because I’d already signed Garrett Atkins.
Atkins can move to 1B. He’s played there before, and would have been playing there if not for Todd Helton at COL>
You move Atkins to 1B, where he’s better than existing options if you’ve decided Luke doesn’t go there.
You put Miggy at 3B, and he’s a vast upgrade over Atkins at 3B.
Think of it this way – instead of signing Atkins to play 3B, we signed him to play 1B.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Yes well I'm against him being signed to play 1B
I don’t think he’s better than the existing options. I think Garrett Atkins is what he is and there are possibilities at 1B. Maybe not STRONG possibilities, but possibilities none-the-less.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
And if we can sign or trade for a better option, then sign or trade for him
and admit Atkins was a mistake and get anything for him via trade, or cut him loose the day before the season starts, a la Jay Gibbons.
Are we in this to win or not?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I'm talking about internal options
Which is why I say they might not be strong possibilities. But if you don’t let them play because of Garrett Atkins, you’ll never know. And in a year when they’re really not going to win much, why not?
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Trembley's job is on the line with wins/loses this year
I think he will be much more likely to optimize his lineup choices than last year.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
And why assume we're not going to win much this year?
I think 81 should be the goal.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I don't think having Atkins at 1B
will add one more win to the team over one of the guys we already have.
And if Trembley is relying on wins/losses to keep his job it makes his premature stance on not putting Luke at 1B even weirder.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Well I said before the deal was made
That I didn’t like either option. However, if I had to chose, I’d chose Atkins. Do we still have to pay Atkins? And how much?
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
You would SERIOUSLY chose Atkins
over a hitter with 199 hits last year?
Seriously?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Over a guy with a poor attitude
Who most likely does not want to be in Baltimore
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
Again - 199
I don’t give a shit about attitude or wanting if he’s getting 200 hits hits.
I don’t want a happy .220 hitter playing 3B for me when I can get an asshole hitting .310 to do it.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Have you ever played for a team before?
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
I've coached a HS one for 11 years
And we’re really not going to have a “You didn’t play the game, so you don’t know!” argument, are we?
Here’s a question – have you played or managed Major League Baseball? Didn’t think so. So my opinion is just as relevant as yours.
They’re paid professionals, not the HS team were you were the star. And Miggi is damn good at his job, which is hitting. A hell of a lot better than any other option we had.
199. I’ll say it again – 199. What did Atkins have last year? Crede? Wigginton?
One. Ninety. Nine.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
No we won't have that argument and that wasn't my point
But one of my favorite things about this team last year was the chemistry we saw between them. All the guys (for the most part) liked each other and played well together. And my point is, having played for a team before, I know that everyone plays better when that chemistry is there. Miggy ruins that equation for me.
Again, who cares if he hit 199? We aren’t competing next year so what is the difference between 100 and 199 hits? If we were ready to compete 199 would be huge, but we aren’t so it is a worthless 6million down the drain IMO. Also, there is no guarantee that Miggy can repeat last year.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
i agree with you here
similar to the caps. all of those guys played for each other and the coach in the minors so they have learned to play well together. its kinda the same with the o’s. i obviously like tejada’s bat much better but its not like any of these guys are going to be here next year. atkins MIGHT get a shot if he really starts to hit again (which i dont think will happen) and/or he learns how to play stellar D (which i also dont think will happen).
by twistedlogic on Jan 25, 2010 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Why are you satisfied
with a lesser option for 2010? Why not take the best available option?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
i'm not being a pessimist here
but i really dont think it matters right now. tejada wont be here next year. if atkins can miraculously show something, then he could be worthwhile. if we were looking at a playoff spot, then sure, you take the best available option. right now, i see atkins as a better option since he COULD (potentially) return to some sort of form. tejada is old and in the last year or two of his career (unless he is secretly stealing brett favre’s special stuff).
by twistedlogic on Jan 25, 2010 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
There are a lot of things the Os could do
This year that are better options for this year. However, they are not better options for the long term. Tejada is not a good long term option. That is my entire point. Its 6 million dollars for a year that is completely developmental. He won’t be here when it matters so why not keep that money and just eat it at 3rd exactly like we did last year. I remember we did that poll at the end of the year when people thought we would compete. I don’t remember the exact numbers but I remember the majority of the people thought it wouldn’t be for 2 or 3 years. So what does it matter if we have a bad, cheaper option at third in a year that doesn’t matter? You have yet to answer that one.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
I don't see
where he’s being seen as a long-term answer. He’s the best possible short-term fix until Josh Bell is ready. Why settle for Garrett Atkins when we can have Miggi?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
As far as the answer you're seeking
I just see no reason to settle for a lesser player when a better one is available. Miggi’s better than ANY other option we had at 3B. So why not?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Because it is a waste of 6 million dollars.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
It comes off the books next year
what does it matter? I rather have the best player now if it doesnt hurt our ability to sign anyone else going forward.
I do have some uncertainty over his attitude ...
… but if he produces along last season’s numbers, then I can live with it, if for no other reason than it is only for one year. Any bad influence Miggy could potentially represent is going to be limited by the length of his deal.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Normally...
…I would agree with you about attitude. Normally.
But Miguel has shown himself to be a real Class A douchebag – thankfully since he left the Orioles. Plus he was not exactly a joy to have around his last season or two in Baltimore.
How many people after you discovered dude lied about his age and was under all kinds of investigations over PEDs thought maybe Palmeiro was telling the truth about that syringe he got from Miggy? I know I entertained the notion.
Part of me hopes he doesnt want to be here
And plays his ass off for a better contract somewhere else next season.
I wanted Puhols and David Wright.
If McPhail was any good at his job, this would have happened.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Ok that's a great sig.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jan 25, 2010 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks BSF
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
I despise Bobby Knight...
but I did enjoy his quote in a press conference to a newspaper guy…it was something along the lines of, “I learned how to write in the 1st grade. And then I moved on with my life.”
I’ve got several friends writing for different papers and such and I love to rib them with this quote. Or paraphrase since I can’t really remember the exact words.
Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt
Bobby Knight is like all the other jokesters out there to me
I hate them on the court, field, etc but I think they are hilarious off of it. Like Ochocino.
"When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my a**!"
-Bobby Knight
Another question is
Where does this leave Wiggy? Is he going to be on the team? Or will Michael Aubrey be the casualty? Does it even matter?
C – Matt Wieters
1B – Garrett Atkins
2B – B-Rob
3B – Miggi
SS – Izzy
LF – Reimold
CF – AJ
RF – Nicky
DH – Luke
Bench:
Generic Back Up Catcher
Andino
Pie
Wiggy? Aubrey?
I’d say that Wiggy would get the chance since he “plays” 3B as well as 1B, but since Atkins can also do that I don’t know. I guess to me Wiggy and Garrett Atkins are probably gonna be about the same but Wiggy was already here.
Maybe they can trade Wiggy for something.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I'd assume Aubrey's gone due to lack of positional flexibility
Anyone know what his option status is?
He doesn't have any options
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Then he's gone
and I’m not exactly shedding a tear.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
agreed
maybe they can sneak him thru waivers like they did with salazar last year. or possibly deal him.
by twistedlogic on Jan 25, 2010 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
FYI, the "Genric Backup Catcher" I believe is Moeller.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jan 25, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
or possibly tater tots
“napoleon…gimme your tots!”
“no…get your own! GOSH!”
by twistedlogic on Jan 25, 2010 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Well Moeller signed a minor league deal
Craig Tatum is the other player currently on the roster.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I didn't like the Tejada re-signing at the time, and still don't.
Yes, he’s a good hitter, and a good team leader when the team is doing well. On the other hand, there’s the whole age thing and the laziness, which goes back to his days with the A’s.
But most of all I want the O’s to be done with their visible connections to the worst of the steroids era. We were really deep into it, with Sosa, Palmeiro (though I leave the slightest amount of doubt for him), Gibbons, etc. For the record, I wouldn’t want the O’s to sign A-Rod to play third either.
The one silver lining I see is that this means MacPhail is going for it. By getting a serviceable starter, decent closer, and now a decent third baseman, he apparently thinks we’re going for a big improvement this year.
I can't figure it out
and by “it” I mean how I feel. I don’t even have a gut reaction. There are a variety of reasons why the move is good and a variety of reasons why the move is bad. I think duck is probably going overboard with his exuberance of Tejada’s offensive production. The guy had a 109 OPS+ last year, and that’ll probably go down a tick because of age. So while he’s a step up from Melvin Mora, he’s not exactly Evan Longoria out there (or even Scott Rolen).
But at the same time, Tejada was probably one of the better options among free agents for third base on a one-year deal (and I sure as fuck didn’t want to see Ty Wigginton play everyday). Someone had to play out there, and I do think that the Orioles made a good sign as far as wins go.
But then on the other hand, there’s all of that attitude stuff and just a general feeling of “Tejada? Again?” and the worry in the back of my mind that come August, Tejada’s going to be stealing at-bats from Josh Bell. But I guess that if Bell’s ready and Tejada’s stealing his at-bats, Bell’s had a pretty good year and that is not a bad thing.
So: I don’t know. I go back and forth a lot on it, but I guess it just is. The only constant in the whole thing is that I fucking hate the Garret Atkins signing in retrospect – was he really the best option for first base? Him?
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
Crap, Rob Dibble agrees with me
I may need to rethink this.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
That is the 4th sign...
of the apocalypse.
A good cigar is like a beautiful chick with a great body who also knows the American League box scores. ~M*A*S*H, Klinger, "Bug-Out," 1976
by Birdland in NC on Jan 25, 2010 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
So do I so you are really screwed.
I haven’t been around here since early last summer, but some circumstances warranted my logging in this afternoon.
I like the move. Not sure what everyone is so excitable about. It’s a 1 year deal to buy time for Bell. I’d prefer Atkins to play first most of the time, so that makes this move even better in my mind.
You’d think they signed a 55 year old guy who hit .225 last year to a 6 year deal worth 120 mil the way some people are talking.
A man gotta have a code
That was good.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
More postulating
I think everyone more or less agrees that bringing Tejada back is at least a gamble. The guy was moody as hell in his first iteration, is getting older (and his bat shows it), and has played third only in international competition, his presence might take at-bats away from Pie/Bell/Snyder/whoever. And there was the whole steroids thing. So there’s definitely a chance for this to curdle (although how that would manifest itself I do not know).
So the question becomes, if this is a gamble, what’s in the offering? Absolute best case scenario: Tejada plays like a man possessed, we trade him at the deadline for more than we got for George Sherrill, he says some nice parting words for Baltimore, Josh Bell comes up and becomes a hit sensation and the Orioles win around 85 games somehow.
I mean, even the very best case scenario doesn’t involve the Orioles getting into any sort of darkhorse playoff conversation. More likely but still optimistic, Tejada plays okay and then he leaves at the end of the year without draft compensation but never stirs the pot even a little bit, and the Orioles win 80 games.
I don’t know about that. I know duck and probably a lot of you others really want to see 81 wins or whatever, but I don’t see the point of bringing in a bunch of free agents for a year to artificially pump up those win totals. But again, someone needs to play third and Tejada might turn out to be pretty decent over there. But it certainly is a risk, and I’m not sure that the potential reward is all that worth it.
I just don’t know. I can think my head in circles around this forever, but I think I just need to let it be, because it is gonna be whethers I likes it or nots.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
Key phrase - somebody's gotta play third
So why not get the best one year option?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Yeah, I'm down with it
but if it turns sour in any way there won’t be any easy way to defend the move.
"I like baseball, movies, good clothes, whiskey, fast cars ... and you. What else you need to know?"
Miggy
Let’s see, .767 OPS from CHONE in 2010 with most likely average defense. Pass, especially given the money.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
As opposed to.....???????
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Luke baby!
Luke at 1B, Atkins at 3rd. Not that I like arrangement, but I prefer it over Miggy at 3B and Atkins at 1B. Either way, we’re talking about some shit-tah defense at the corners.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
I actually think
Miggi has a chance to be league average at 3B. I’m not so sure about the other two.
Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt
You’re probably right. I just wanted to use the word shit-tay because it’s a cool word.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
But you didn't.
You used “shit-ah”, which is what I think they call a toilet in certain sections of Fenway Park.
by Jonny Pops on Jan 26, 2010 6:03 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Or shit-tah
Damn mobile commenting.
by Jonny Pops on Jan 26, 2010 6:04 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
fuck. oh well.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
But you didn’t. You used "shit-ah", which is what I think they calla toilet in certain sections ofFenway Park.
thats more like it
by twistedlogic on Jan 26, 2010 7:32 AM EST up reply actions
Red Sox fans ....
… which I guess is the same thing.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
you just made me spit out my coffee
roflcopterz
by twistedlogic on Jan 26, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
I get the feeling
a lot of people do this. Particularly behind those ugly ass mounds of poured concrete you find all around the stadium.
Does that make you
just a typical drunken PHN member? (You can interpret “member” in any way you see fit.)
by fishoutawata on Jan 26, 2010 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
do typical drunken PHN members
piss on their own stadium while yelling “fuck the red sucks!” at 1 AM in February?
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