Updating the 40 Greatest Orioles of All-Time list
Way back in the 2005/2006 off-season, SC spent the off-season writing profiles on the players he believed to be the top 40 players in Orioles history. It's good stuff, check it out.
In December 2007 he made some amendments to his list, adding Brian Roberts at #39 (which sadly bumped Jeff Conine off the list. Don't worry, Niner, you're still Mr. Marlin) and upgrading Miguel Tejada from #39 to #23.
The following off-season, SC made a few more changes, bumping Brian Bob to #34 (he jumped in front of Roberto Alomar, Harold Baines, Mike Boddicker, B.J. Surhoff, and Tippy Martinez) and Melvin Mora up one spot to #28, ahead of Steve Barber.
With Camden Chat changing hands last season there were no updates, but I thought the time had come to remedy that. I have never spent any time formulating my own top Orioles list, and it's probable that if I did, SC and I would disagree with a few. I'm not going to change the order of any of SC's rankings except to reposition the active players that deserve a different (or initial) place on the list thanks to recent achievements.
I need your help, however. As a group we are wise (sometimes. Sometimes we're just nutters). Take a look at the players I consider adding and players on the list I consider moving and let me know where you think they belong.
Here is the current list as determined by SC in October 2008:
| 40. Gregg Olson | 20. Mark Belanger |
| 39. Roberto Alomar | 19. Stu Miller |
| 38. Harold Baines | 18. Al Bumbry |
| 37. Mike Boddicker | 17. Gus Triandos |
| 36. B.J. Surhoff | 16. Doug DeCinces |
| 35. Tippy Martinez | 15. Paul Blair |
| 34. Brian Roberts | 14. Milt Pappas |
| 33. Dick Hall | 13. Rafael Palmeiro |
| 32. Rick Dempsey | 12. Bobby Grich |
| 31. Hoyt Wilhelm | 11. Mike Cuellar |
| 30. Mike Flanagan | 10. Ken Singleton |
| 29. Steve Barber | 9. Brady Anderson |
| 28. Melvin Mora | 8. Dave McNally |
| 27. Scott McGregor | 7. Mike Mussina |
| 26. Luis Aparicio | 6. Boog Powell |
| 25. Don Buford | 5. Frank Robinson |
| 24. Chris Hoiles | 4. Eddie Murray |
| 23. Miguel Tejada | 3. Jim Palmer |
| 22. Jim Gentile | 2. Brooks Robinson |
| 21. Davey Johnson | 1. Cal Ripken, Jr. |
Since the last update in October 2008, there have been two full seasons to evaluate players for the list. Of the players who filled the O's rosters in 2009 and 2010, three of them (Brian Roberts, Melvin Mora, Miguel Tejada) are already on the list. Of the other sixty-four players (or in some cases, "players") who made an appearance for the team in those two years, I have, with all of my wisdom, determined that a conversation should be had for Nick Markakis and Jeremy Guthrie.
Nick Markakis - Markakis has now played five seasons and 786 games as an Oriole. Some of us have been disappointed with his career trends, but he is a solid baseball player who has put up solid numbers for the Orioles since 2006. His ranks 27th all time for games played as an Oriole, 22nd on the all time O's list for HR, 16th in hits, and 11th in doubles. In the non-statistical department, Nick has the distinction of coming along at a time when Orioles fans really needed someone to have hope in. He has made Maryland his year round home and despite a lack of personality has become a fan favorite. I personally believe that Nick belongs on the 40 greatest list and hope he spends the next several years moving up the ranks. Nick's Baseball-Reference page
Jeremy Guthrie - When the Orioles plucked Guthrie off of the waiver wire before the 2007 season it was without much fanfare and without many expectations. Guthrie was a first round draft pick but never put it together in Cleveland. He began his Orioles career in the bullpen and only got a chance in the rotation due to injury, but since being given the opportunity he hasn't let go. He pitched 190 innings in 2008 and 200 in 2009 and 2010. His ERA with the Orioles over four seasons is 4.06. It's a stretch to even mention Guts for this list I suppose, but if any pitcher is close, it's him. Guts' Baseball-Reference page
Brian Roberts - Since Roberts was ranked at #34 in October 2008, he has played 218 more games as an Oriole. Last season he hit 56 doubles and became just the fourth player to do so in three different seasons in baseball history. He now tops 1000 games played as an Oriole with 1194, good for 12th most in O's history. Provided he has even a halfway decent season next year he will pass Rick Dempsey and Melvin Mora in that category. The only three Orioles with more doubles than Brian Roberts are in the Hall of Fame, and for good measure he's 7th in O's history with 33 triples. Always good at getting on base, Brian's 538 career walks are 8th best in Orioles history, and only Brady Anderson has stolen more bases. He had a disappointing season, but should still be moved up at least a few notches on the leader board, don't you think? Brian's Baseball-Reference page
Melvin Mora - We closed the books on Melvin Mora the Baltimore Oriole after the 2009 season, and when it was all said and done Melvin had played 10 years for the O's. He is in the top 10 of nearly every offensive category you can think of and he had what is probably the single best season by an Orioles third baseman in 2004. He finished his Orioles career having played 1256 games (10th) with a hitting line of .280/.355/.438 with 158 home runs (9th), 1323 hits (10th), 252 doubles (7th), and 465 walks (10th). He annoyed us a lot, he made us happy quite often, and for better or worse, Melvin Mora is one of the greatest Orioles. Melmo's Baseball-Reference page
Miguel Tejada - Since the last ranking, Miggi played one half of a substandard year for the Orioles in 2010. SC ranked him as the 23rd greatest Oriole before that. Does this season have any affect? Read what SC had to say about about Miggi here and here. Miggi's Baseball-Reference page
So what say you, Camden Chatters? Do Nick Markakis and Jeremy Guthrie deserve spots on this list? If so, where? If not, why not? What do they need to do to get there?
And what of Brian Bob, Memlo, and Miggi? How many places, if any, should the move on the list?
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My opinion...
Nick definitely should be on the list. mid to upper 30s I guess as of right now. Guts, eh, maybe. If so then put him in the 40 slot. BriBob should move into the mid 20s, maybe right ahead of or behind Hoiles. Miggi and Melmo should drop a bit, more so for Miggi. I don’t think Miggi should crack the top 30.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
cut the list back to a top 20
And then you will be talking about people who really deserve to be on the list. As it is you are weakening the whole idea with lesser lights.
If you cut the list to 20
You’ll be talking about people who belong in the top 20. We’re talking about people who belong in the top 40.
Thanks for your helpful advice.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
this isn't the hall of very good, Stacey
come on. man up.
Ranger Brad, I'm a scientist, I don't believe in anything.
ok, 20 is pretty severe
lets compromise with a top 30. and keep out the ump-spitter and the juicers. maybe then you will have some consensus. or not.
Any list without Robbie
is a list I will be no part of. His best years may not have been with the O’s, but they were pretty damn amazing regardless. I don’t give a damn about the spitting. He was great.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
If John Hirschbeck forgives, so do I.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
yeah, but he was an Oriole for only three seasons. longevity counts.
In the list above, I think (?) Tejada is the Oriole with the least amount of service time and he at least played 4.5 seasons.
Your mother.
There will never be a consensus
And it’s top 40.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
Just comparing Guts to Boddicker...
who is the lowest starting pitcher on the list, I don’t think he’s there, yet. Although Guthrie has pitched well for a few seasons, and has better WAR/season than Boddicker did, Mike pitched for the Orioles for 6 full years. And Mike’s 1984 season is better than any single season that Guthrie has produced (wins and ERA RULE!). Oh and we traded him for Curt Schilling AND Brady Anderson.
If Guthrie pitches well for a year or two, and we trade him for two great players, then we’ll talk.
As far as Markakis, I think he deserves to crack the 40, maybe at #40. Gregg Olson was awesome, but for a very short time. And closers are overrated, anyway,
"Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.."
I can see Guts
eclipsing Olson…but that’s about it. Maaaaybe Robbie. Maybe. And if you put Nick on there, then that would probably bounce Guts anyway. I’d put Nicky above Baines but below Surhoff.
That’s without looking at the stats. I will now look at them and get back to you all.
Ranger Brad, I'm a scientist, I don't believe in anything.
okay, some more organized and thought-about thoughts
Nick probably belongs just under Boddicker. Interestingly, Nick’s already outplayed BJ. Not that that should affect the rankings…I was just surprised to learn that is all. I guess Surhoff’s huge charisma quotient (wCQ+) really pushes him up in my brain. As it should.
Guthrie…I want to put him over Alomar, because it’s just hard to put in my brain that a mercenary who was here for three years is one of our all-time players.Alomar’s a Blue Jay in my heart, and it’s tough to think of him as one of the best Orioles ever in light of that. But he was so good. Sooo good. And he played on the Last Great Orioles Team. The team that was the best team in baseball hands down (yeah, fuck you Jaret Wright and the rest of those damn Indians). So I can’t put Guts on here. He might push Olson, but Nick already makes Robbie #40.
I’d also push Roberts up just under the man who threw the first Orioles no-no. Roberts and Dempsey are in my head very similar in terms of Oriole impact.
Mora and Tejada I’d let be. Nobody should be judged much by their last steaming year.
Ranger Brad, I'm a scientist, I don't believe in anything.
First glance, didn't-look-at-all-the-stats reactions
Move up: Brian Roberts, Melmo
Move down: Palmeiro
Add: Markakis
Delete: Tejada
Okay, arguing to delete Tejada is probably a stretch, so maybe let’s just say drop him a bunch.
America was a farting country. - Ragtime, E.L. Doctorow
by Eat More Esskay on Oct 21, 2010 5:21 PM EDT reply actions
Any argument to remove Tejada is ridiculous.
Just because he sucked this year doesn’t change the fact that he had one of the greatest 3 year stretches in Orioles history from 04-06.
The stache is back!
by Knubles and Bits on Oct 21, 2010 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
you can’t take off Miggi
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
I could.
But you can’t, and that’s fine. I feel like MIggi is probably nothing without the juice, so that coupled with his effort level this year leaves me not feeling kind.
America was a farting country. - Ragtime, E.L. Doctorow
by Eat More Esskay on Oct 21, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Just my two cents, but what do I know?
I think Markakis needs to go on, even though it bounces Olson. It’s too bad, because before he hurt himself Olson could bring it. I never realized that some of Nick’s numbers in terms of all time Orioles were as good as they are. Doubles is obvious, but I really didn’t know about hits and home runs. So I think he’s in. I’m just not sure in what spot without taking the time to look close at those on there now.
But Guthrie, I would have to say no. Let’s see how he does with another year or two (if he is still here), but right now I’m thinking no. He doesn’t have the numbers yet, although I think his win-loss record has as much to do (maybe more) with playing for some sucky teams as it is an illustration of his own abilities.
Top 3
Personally, I would change the top 3 to…
3. Brooks Robinson
2. Cal Ripken
1. Jim Palmer
All three were great players. Cal and Brooks, though, have nothing on Palmer. He finished to 5 in the Cy Young voting 8 times, including 3 wins. He was also on every World Series team in franchise history. He’s the epitome of Oriole greatness, and I can’t imagine any Oriole pitcher ever matching up to his level of play.
by osstrohsnattybohs on Oct 21, 2010 6:13 PM EDT reply actions
That was SC's decision
I don’t know if you read his write ups on them (the linked player names) but he explains why he put people where he did.
Also, Jim Palmer wasn’t that much better than Mike Mussina (gasp!)
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
Palmer that much better than Mussina. Uh no.
Number of Cy Youngs? 3-0
20 win seasons? 8-1
Lifetime ERA 2.86-3.68
Shutouts 52-23
Palmer also had 10 shutouts in a year, he also had 4 years with 6 and 1 with 6- Mussina’s best was 4.
Need I write more?
They aren’t close. At all.
by Delmarvalous Tom on Oct 22, 2010 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
copy and paste fail
Palmer wasn’t that much better than Mike Mussina. Uh no.
There.
by Delmarvalous Tom on Oct 22, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
A few things
Let’s toss out wins, ok? Please compare the teams that Mussina pitched for to the teams that Palmer pitched for and you’ll see why. Not to mention Palmer pitched in a four man rotation so he had more opportunities. But if you MUST talk about wins, please note that Mussina pitched one less season than Palmer and ended his career with two more victories, and they actually have an identical career winning percentage.
Additionally, here are some graphs for you.
You’ll see that in a number of categories they are very similar and in some Mussina is actually better.
Mussina walked less batters and struck out more. He has a career K/BB of over 3.5 and Palmer’s is under 2. Their career ERA+ are within a few points of each other, Palmer’s is 126 and Mussina’s 123. You can’t just compare straight ERAs for pitchers in different generations because the game just isn’t the same.
If you put any stock in WAR, per B-R, Mussina’s career WAR is 73.8, Palmer’s 63.5.
I’m not trying to take anything away from Jim Palmer. Jim Palmer is the tits. But to say they aren’t close at all isn’t accurate. Jim Palmer even said as much in a broadcast this season.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
After reading his write up on Palmer, I’m pretty much left to believe that he factored in their personality and greatness as human beings. I can’t objectively look at their 3 careers and say that Brooks or Cal had better ones than Palmer, or that Mussina even had a comparable career to Palmer.
As you said, though, this wasn’t your decision, so it’s unfair (and somewhat pointless) to make my case to you.
by osstrohsnattybohs on Oct 22, 2010 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't Guts without adding Steve Stone first
3 seasons for teh O’s, went 40-21 with a Cy Freakin’ Young Award in 1980, 500 innings in those 3 years. (OK, 499.1 IP to be exact)
Yes, Steve Stone was only good for 2 seasons, but in those two seasons, he won almost as many games games (36) as Guts has in four. Yes, Steve had a hell of a better team behind him. But their ERA+ is exactly the same (110), and when Steve Stone was good, he was way better than anything we’ve seen from Guts.
That said, I don’t think either belong. Two more solid years out of Guts and we might have to add him.
"Walk not down that road, I cannot tell you where it goes. Ask me no more questions - some things you're not meant to know." - The Sword
OK, he didn't go 40-21 in 1981
He went 40-21 while with the O’s, and won a Cy Young in 1980.
I need an editor.
"Walk not down that road, I cannot tell you where it goes. Ask me no more questions - some things you're not meant to know." - The Sword
y'know what?
ben mcdonald pitched 937 innings for the o’s, went 58-53 and had 111 ERA+ in 7 seasons. definitely a flawed pitcher, but i’d say similar in terms of value to guts.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
Frank Robinson
If we are picking the best baseball player in Os history, it would be Frank. If we are picking the greatest Oriole, it would be Brooks or Cal.
If I had to choose one Oriole around which to build a team, it would be Frank. Robinson. Frank was a great baseball player and a real leader on the team. Frank was the judge of the Orioles kangaroo court. I could write a lot more, but one cannot overestimate Frank’s impact when he joined the team in 1966.
Frank Robinson is one of the greatest players in baseball history
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
oops hit post too soon
But he didn’t spend long enough on the O’s to make top of the list
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
Roberto Alomar
If we are picking the best baseball players in Os history, I would select Roberto Alomar after Frank. Roberto was not here long. He was not a team leader. But, he was an unbelievable second baseman. His talent stood out.
What, no Garret Atkins?
The stache is back!
by Knubles and Bits on Oct 22, 2010 12:46 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
and Drabek
and Joe Carter and Curt Shilling and Will Clark and Eric Davis and… damn we’ve had alot of expired stars (ED was mad awesome though)
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
yes...
maybe we should start a new list? while the concept didn’t exist then, i’d argue that eric davis was birdland.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
MelMo needs to move up.
There, I said it.
Yes, he could sulk, and he could be annoying, and he never saw playoff ball with an Os team, but those rankings are undeniable. He was good for 3 years and genuinely great for 2 (his 2004 is, as noted, one of the best in Orioles history). I think Melmo is top 20. I think he compares well with DeCinces and deserves to be much closer to him.
It’s easy to vilify MelMo for his whining and his pouting, his “playoff experience” nonsense…but it’s not HIS fault the Os never saw October in his day.
Plus my cousin used to wait on him all the time at a breakfast joint in Harford County, said he was nice, tipped well, and his kids were well behaved. So there’s that.
Does Miggy get any credit for his “I love Baltimore, this is my home” stuff after he got traded this year?
I also feel Flanny could stand to be higher.
Also, Hoiles>Triandos.
Is there room on this list for Elrod Hendricks? Great player, no. But great Oriole? I cried when the club fired him. I cried again when he died. Sure, I’m being emotional here, but can any list of greatest Orioles not include Elrod?
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Oct 21, 2010 8:07 PM EDT reply actions
This is to say nothing of the greatness...
…of Ken “Gopher Ball” Dixon, or Floyd “Sugar Bear” Rayford. I MEAN COME ON.
Ok, for those two I’ll have to wait for the “Top 200” list.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Oct 21, 2010 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Just thank God
you didn’t say Lee May. That fucker was TERRIBLE.
"Walk not down that road, I cannot tell you where it goes. Ask me no more questions - some things you're not meant to know." - The Sword
There's always perennial all star favourite
Larry Sheets.
"Fairy tales start 'once upon a time...'. Fishing stories start 'now this ain't no bullshit...'."
- Cap'n Phil Harris
AL MVP, 1988
It will happen!
Yeah, I actually said that in ST 1988. Several times, in fact.
"Walk not down that road, I cannot tell you where it goes. Ask me no more questions - some things you're not meant to know." - The Sword
Larry Sheets had a hell of a 1987.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
Yes, yes he did
And I drank the orange Flavor-Aid something fierce.
"Walk not down that road, I cannot tell you where it goes. Ask me no more questions - some things you're not meant to know." - The Sword
i was a big larry sheets fan...
him and jim traber.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
actually
Gus Triandos was probably the best player from the ’50s era Orioles, a three time all star and a four time MVP vote receiver.
But unfortunately he will, like Terry Crowley, be remembered most for an unrelated obscene (but very, very funny) joke. That’s really too bad.
Ranger Brad, I'm a scientist, I don't believe in anything.
I'm not trying to get down on Triandos.
He was a genuinely good player and belongs on the top 40. Definitely the best player from those early Oriole teams.
My only real assertion here is that Hoiles was better, and played for better Oriole teams, and deserves to be higher than Triandos on the list.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Oct 22, 2010 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, my only assertion about Triandos
I am also asserting a lot of other things.
I will simply assume, of course, that Ken Dixon sits at a comfortable #41. I can live with that.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Oct 22, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
if i'm making this list
(which i’m not)
I put Ripken behind Brooks and Palmer, I drop Palmeiro waaaay down for his steroids, I raise Alomar way up for being awesome, especially in 96, smack in the middle of steroids and the guy just hits without all the gaudy power numbers, plus he was a great defender.
I put Nick in the low-20s or high-30s somewhere, and B-Rob just in front of him. I drop Miggy into the mid-30s for steroids and being a general douche in many ways.
I consider dropping Dempsey down for being insufferable after games and pouting about not getting the job. I consider dropping Hoiles down for being dreadfully boring on his radio show, but then I can’t help but like him anyway. That grand slam lives on forever.
I consider letting Guts make the list if we stretch it to top 50, but no way is he top 40 yet. I wonder where Curt Schilling would be on this list if we hadn’t traded him. And Steve Finley. And Pete Harnisch.
I consider dropping Moose and Ken Singleton down for Yankee affiliations. I consider dropping Mike Flanagan down for butchering the FO.
That’s a good start.
Interesting point
I do wonder where some of the Orioles we traded away would be on the list had we not unwisely let them go. Schilling and Finley top the list. The right fielder tor the Phillies would have had a nice career with the Os.
Sorry Nick
I can’t see bumping anyone yet. Greg Olson was the best, most exciting relief pitcher in baseball for a few years. He was also the identity of the team.
Can’t say Nick has achieved anything close to this yet, even if after just a few years Greg morphed into Greg (Assh)olson and took the identity of the team with him.
I know by the make up...
of this list that it is players only, but if I am talking All Time Greatest Orioles then Earl Weaver is probably number 6 in this list.
by Delmarvalous Tom on Oct 22, 2010 9:11 PM EDT reply actions
True dat. Earl is top 5 in my opinion.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
by PBR me ASAP! on Oct 22, 2010 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Top 40/Scott McGregor
I’m glad to see Scott McGregor (one of my all-time favorite players) in the top 30.

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