Report: O's looking at Jason Bartlett & J.J. Hardy as trade targets
by Stacey on Nov 18, 2010 3:18 PM EST
in News & Rumors
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PrintThey've had trade discussions with the Tampa Bay Rays about Jason Bartlett, and the Minnesota Twins about J.J. Hardy.
The talks with the Rays included discussion of a potential swap of Orioles reliever David Hernandez for Bartlett, who hit .254 with four homers and 47 RBIs in 2010, but is a career .281 hitter. However, that deal appears unlikely at this point as the Orioles consider other options.
I would prefer Hardy to Bartlett, all things considered. Hardy is younger three years younger and, from what I've seen, better defensively. Neither is a whiz with the bat, and both are free agents after 2011.
So what say you, Camden Chatters? Would you swap Hernandez for Bartlett? How about for Hardy? I would. Although I'd do pretty much anything to keep from ever having to see Cesar Izturis again.
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is this for real?
that could end one of these dead horse discussions on the spot. of course I’d rather take Hardy but Bartlett wouldn’t exactly grind my gears, especially if he can find some middle ground between last season and the one prior to it.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
"smoke weed, eat yogurt"
Neither.
Why trade this year when they are both FAs next year?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
seconded
plus, they’re both non-tender candidates. Why give up an actual part of the bullpen for a non-tender one year rental?
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
Piling on...
If you’re going to trade, spend the value on a more pressing need. Not that we have….much….value….
by Fahrenheit 451 on Nov 18, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Hernandez for Hardy?
Totally! It is somewhat of a gamble, but let’s say he has a nice year, he could potentially be worth a sandwich pick. I think this is more about how I value Hernandez, which isn’t all that much. Maybe it should be more.
Librarians are hiding something
Well now I sort of am swinging back
either of these guys, while very imperfect, would be an easy answer to the shortstop question. The alternative is undoubtedly more Cesar Izturis and, God, am I ever finished with that. NOw, I’d rather have David Hernandez for four years than Jason Barlett for one year, but I could definitely get on board a different package.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
What if they negotiated an extension at the time of the trade?
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Wouldn't change anything for me
if we wanted to, we could undoubtedly resign either of these guys when they hit free agency next winter without the extension…or without the trade. They’re simply not high enough quality to keep them out of our buying range, I don’t think.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
at least by baseball references's 2010 rankings...
hardy isn’t THAT far off izturis defensively, but he’s a country mile better at the plate. bartlett was the equal of neither in the field and was a tick below hardy at the plate.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
by j.q. higgins on Nov 18, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
well its not like we're looking for a cleanup hitter at short
whoever plays there is probably still going to be the number 9 hitter. But please, someone who can just get on base more than 28% of the time.
O’sFan21: hard to say exactly, since we don’t have the exact formula down…but right now Bartlett is an A and Hardy is a few points below a B. Barlett’s status is because of his monster 2009 that he’s highly unlikely to repeat, so I would put both of them as decent gambles for type B status, but they’d have to explode in 2011 to hit type A, and of course I can’t predict that.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
ok
I was thinking they both had a better shot at being Type As and so DH might be a better trade than a sandwich pick, but perhaps not.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
sandwich
If there was a reasonable chance that the deal would be 4 years of Hernandez for 1 year of Hardy and a sandwich pick, I think AM should definitely pull the trigger.
Librarians are hiding something
My gut says no, but my brain says absolutely yes
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
But
we’d only get the pick if we offered arbitration, he turned it down, and we didn’t re-sign him. And then we’d just have to find a SS again. Right?
And since it’s unlikely either will be a type A, it’s not like we’re risking losing a draft pick to sign one of them next off-season. I’d rather wait, unless we can offer them somebody less valuable than DH… even if that means another year of Izzy.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
Hardy has more upside
Much rather have Hardy with his youth and higher ceiling for power. I think Bartlett’s numbers of 2009 will be the best of his career when it’s all said and done. I do like that Bartlett is a consistent base stealer
Hardy has the potential to hit 25 HRs a season based on his past numbers. And if his defense is better than Bartlett’s I’d rather see Hardy come here.
Earl:"I'm going back to the dugout to check my rule-book!" Umpire:"Earl, I have one right here." Earl:"That's no good, I don't read Braille."
As soon as we do this
(if we do this) Hernandez is going to blow up and get like 40 saves or some ridiculous shit like that.
cxcxcxcxzzzzzzzzz
you can't think that way
you might as well live like an ostrich.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
Bullpen volatility.
He could just as easily walk 6 guys per 9 after being traded.
America was a farting country. - Ragtime, E.L. Doctorow
by Eat More Esskay on Nov 18, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
Make the trade for Hardy
Hernandez will never get 40 saves with any team because 1) he’s not a closer and 2) he just isn’t that good. And 3) Twins already have a closer, don’t they?
Agree with the above about negotiating an extension, though…
If that happens
Ill burn every Oriole Poster, shirt, sticker, etc I own!!!
by WilmingtonNC on Nov 18, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Don't do it
I actually threw out my caps and tee shirts when we got Albert Belle. Within a month or two I was buying new stuff.
I could sooner unlearn English
Then unlearn OriolesFanDom, even if some times I feel as though I take to many blows to the head for them.
by WilmingtonNC on Nov 23, 2010 1:27 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you for the subject line.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
by PBR me ASAP! on Nov 18, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Alas,
Even the ability to hide the image can’t contain the intangibles. And the wining attitude!
by Jim_in_Philly on Nov 18, 2010 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
and the herpes.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
by PBR me ASAP! on Nov 18, 2010 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
man, the intangibles are burning my eyes!
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
a part of me just died
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Nov 18, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
AHHHHH
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
"smoke weed, eat yogurt"
by danielreese05 on Nov 18, 2010 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i think the worst part of this is the desecration of a Nick Markakis picture
Izturis is one thing, but Nick is something else!
Librarians are hiding something
Ew dude
Really? That’s fucked up.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I really want to hide that picture........
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Nov 18, 2010 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
It would certainly help our intangiable percentage. Not to mention the locker room chemistry would sky rocket.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Nov 18, 2010 6:07 PM EST up reply actions
Did anyone see this?
I’m speechless
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/2010/11/orioles_need_to_sign_derek_jet.html
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
by NewYorkOriole on Nov 18, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah. It was discussed in the Open Thread
along with some other head-scratching articles.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
by PBR me ASAP! on Nov 18, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
Gotta agree with the above stated sentiment
Both of these guys are potential non-tenders, wait to see how things shake out before making any move. But I wouldn’t feel too terrible about trading Hernandez for Hardy. If he walks after next season the O’s will have a reasonable shot at getting a compensatory pick. If an extension can be worked out the O’s have their bridge SS until Machado is ready.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
not sure about Hardy
the papers have speculated he’s a non-tender candidate for a few months, but I’m not sure. the Twins don’t have a compelling alternative to SS behind him (the Rays do on the other hand) and he was worth around 1.5 wins in an injury-shortened season. $6-7 million next year (after arbitration) isn’t a bargain, but it’s not the worst deal in the world either. at the very least I would expect him to get tendered simply because he has trade value.
that’s just a guess though. it could be that the writers had some inside information from the Twins’ FO or something. also yeah, I agree I would be fine with Hernandez for Hardy. if Hardy has a monster season he’ll probably be a Type A (or we could flip him at the deadline). if he has an OK season he’ll still be a Type B, and moreover we might be able to extend his contract. and if he sucks or gets injured – well, you run that risk any time you sign or trade for anyone.
Per MN reporter
A mn reporter said on the local sports radio that Hardy drove Gardenhire “crazy” with constant requests for days off. But the FO seems higher on Hardy than he does, so we’ll see. The Twins gave up Gomez for him so they won’t non-tender him and probably won’t give him away. But they’re also bidding on that Japanese shortstop and if they get him, I’d imagine they’ll move Hardy. I don’t know if Hernandez is the type of relief pitcher the Twins would want – walks a lot – and the Balt Sun article linked Hernandez to the Bartlett deal, not MN. I have no idea what the Twins would ask for.
I think anytime you get a chance to trade a reliever
for an improvement at a position of need that you have to do it.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Nov 18, 2010 6:19 PM EST reply actions
+1 Knubles
That sounds like something Andy would say after we make the trade, which I favor if we are taking a poll.
Interesting...
Tell the Rays to throw in Longoria with Bartlett for Hernandez and we’ve got a deal.
What up?
definitely
would like to see a trade for Hardy. Henandez isn’t all that special, and our need at shortstop is glaring.
When you're born into the human race you're given a ticket to the freak show. When you're born in America, you're given a front row seat. And some of us have notepads.-George Carlin
by Afghanistan Steve on Nov 18, 2010 11:46 PM EST reply actions
I feel like 4 cheap years of Hernandez is > 1 year of hardy
Hardy was just traded for a guy who never had an OBP > .300.
Offer back Gonzalez and some cash see if that gets some interest.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Nov 19, 2010 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
Hardy's WAR last year was 2.4 in only 101 games. He put up a WAR of 4.9 in 2008, if
he returns to 2008 form than this deal is a no brainer and if he plays like he did last year over a full season hes a huge upgrade over izzy’s ugly -0.3 WAR. You dont want to give up an often hurt, semi-effective reliever for that?
2632
Well if he returns to 08 form then obviously
But you have to consider salary in there too. Hardy’s making 5.5 this year and DH is going to make 400k.
Also, since when was DH often hurt and semi-effective as a reliever?
ERA of 3.16, 10.9 K/9, 3.46 K/BB, and batters have an OPS of .681 against him as a reliever. Thats pretty good, I stand by what I said. You’re either something great or building for something great, if Hardy’s going to be a FA in 2011, just wait for that, 2011 wont be something great with or without him.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Nov 19, 2010 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Even if he doesn't return to 08 form he is going to be a 3 win player if he plays a full
season. Also David Hernandez career FIP is 5.67 and WAR sits at -0.1. Thats below replacement. Im just saying this trade possible value is way worth getting rid of hernendez. Dont get too attached to these players.
2632
Hah
I dont get attached to players.
I would just take 4 years of an above average reliever at very little over one year of a decent shortstop in a year when we wont be contending anyways. Spitting out sabermetric stats doesnt make you right. I dont care about his FIP or WAR when he was a starter, thats irrelevent, as a reliever he’s been above average and has potential for more.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Nov 20, 2010 8:39 PM EST up reply actions
Also Hardy's expiring contract will be good trade bait come July and its
possible that he could become a type B free agent which offers compensation picks in the draft. David Hernandez is not an above average reliever. Average maybe but as a reliever in 2010 his BB/9 was almost 5. Thats a little high for my taste.
2632
OWNERSHIP
I have been a life time fan of the birds. But we really need to trade for a NEW OWNER. Good ole Peter has ruined us for yrs to come and its really bad now that i live in florida and have a birds tattoo. I did a cover up to the RAVENS , this is sad to see how he has taken away a truely great program . We need Cal to step up and take over the team with no strings to what he can do. Something has to give they are downsizing Camden yards, sort of tells me something. NO ONE Cares anymore while Peter is in charge
give the rookie a shot
why not save our time and money on another mediocre player that wont really pan out to anything for the o’s, and just call up the rookie manny m? the way he was swinging the bat in college, it’s GOTTA be an upgrade to itzturis….then perhaps we could go after a decent FA pitcher or closer….just a thought…im sick n tired of all this losing…Peter A has GOT to go…Cal needs to take over and start a revolution.
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