Wednesday Bird Droppings
by Stacey on Dec 1, 2010 7:30 AM EST
in Open Threads
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PrintQuestion of the Day: I'm against bringing in expensive free agent relievers when there are usually plenty of homegrown guys who can provide the same work. One of those homegrown guys for the Orioles is Kam Mickolio. Kam is however quickly running out of minor-league options but has been pretty horrible on the mound so far. Where does Mickolio fit into your vision of the Orioles' future? -Andrew
Adam Dunn taking big chance in free agency - | FOX Sports on MSN
Jon Morosi puts the Orioles on the list of best fits for Adam Dunn but wonders how much his anti-DH stance has hurt him.
O’s new bench coach Willie Randolph « WJZ FM
Willie Randolph talked to Mark Zinno on 105.7 yesterday. The audio runs about 9 minutes, but it's good stuff. I think I'm gonna like Willie Randolph.
Martinez may direct energy to Nicaragua academy | Springfield News-Leader
Former Oriole Dennis Martinez has the career goal of being a major league pitching coach, but in the meantime he is helping out his home country of Nicaragua by establishing a baseball academy for the youngsters.
Steve Melewski: The offseason plan for Matt Hobgood
Operation: Skinny Hobgood is still in motion and so far it appears to be on track.
Jamie Moyer to Have Tommy John Surgery, Plans to Pitch Again -- MLB FanHouse
I think you are awesome, Jamie Moyer, but seriously?
Memo to Selig: Leave the playoffs alone - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
Jeff Passan with a great article on all the things wrong with expanding the playoffs.
Unlikely pair vie for a spot in right field | HeraldTribune.com
A couple of American bald eagles have taken up residence in the right field light bank at Ed Smith Stadium, and they're messing up things for the construction crews. Thanks a lot, bald eagles.
With Derek Jeter, Yankees must confront value of an icon - Tom Verducci - SI.com
Verducci compares the current Jeter situation to Cal Ripken in 1997.
Giants agree to 1-year deal with SS Miguel Tejada to replace World Series MVP Renteria - baltimoresun.com
MIggi is sticking with the NL West. As he should.
The Royle Rundown: Updates on Orioles' targets
Jen Royle wonders if Jason Varitek might be the veteran catcher the Orioles need. She also thinks Johnny Damon might be a good fit because he'll give the clubhouse a few good laughs. She also, for the first time since I started reading her articles, correctly placed the apostrophe in "let's." I am totally taking credit for that.
School of Roch: Allenson's return to Norfolk
Gary Allenson is sad that he doesn't get to stay in Baltimore.
Get Rid Of Free Agent Compensation | FanGraphs Baseball
Dave Cameron makes the case to eliminate compensation for Type A and B free agents, arguing that it is more about teams gaming the system than rewarding teams who can't hold onto their players.
OFF TOPIC: Walking Dead Writing Staff Let Go - TV News at IGN
"Deadline is reporting that executive producer Frank Darabont has let go of the show's entire writing staff, including his number 2, Charles H. Eglee (Dexter, The Shield). As Deadline notes, many shows have some writer changes in-between seasons, but it's unusual for such a major overhaul. " -duck
Just relax. Just relax, open thread, you're doing great. She likes you. She... maybe, she likes you. She likes you. You know why? Because you're a... neat guy. You are the man. You are... The Man! I still got it! Nice and sexy.
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Another interesting link....
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/531377-dear-mlb-dont-just-expand-the-playoffs
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
its a waaaay better article than what we've previously linked to around here
but here’s a hint to would-be statisticians: if the stats you are using make Ty Wigginton look close to Derrek Lee, you’re doing it wrong.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
just found out
mandatory 32 hours PTO (btw – my PTO includes sick time as well) must be taken from now until Jan 28 with the encouragement that we take the last week in December off. What if you don’t have 32 hrs saved up? Leave without pay. I will just have enough by the last week in December which means I go into the new year with 2 hrs PTO. Merry Christmas Holidays!
That's the week my wife gets mandatory unpaid furlough days
from the State of Maryland. So, I’m feeling ya.
Hey look, mister - we serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint "atmosphere".
by duck on Dec 1, 2010 9:14 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
yeah
just had the bitch session meeting and the “encouragement” is more like a “you must unless you have a deadline”. So the 1/28/11 date is only to account for the people who have deadlines in december which I don’t so I have until the end of this month. This reeks of layoffs come Jan 28…
All of the Teamsters that work for the city government that employees me (fortunately, I'm not a Teamster)
just gave up their next three years of COLAs, they have to take the week between Christmas and New Year as unpaid furlough days, and then between January 1st and June 30th, they have to take eight more unpaid furlough days. And January 1st, they have to give back the COLA they received on July 1st, 2010. Fortunately, it isn’t retroactive. All to save about 120 jobs that were facing layoffs. And they voted to do it by almost a 4-1 margin. Good thing we aren’t in a recession anymore.
yep
our office of 130 employees has accounted for over 3/4 of the entire (2000 employees) company’s profit. basically we are taking the hit so others in the company can hold on to their jobs through christmas but come January they are most likely gone.
That is some piss-poor negotiating on the part of their rep...
No fucking way they needed to give back money retroactively if they were already agreeing to the pay freezes for the next three fiscal years. If I was in that union I’d have my fucking reps head on a pike.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 1, 2010 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, they didn't have to make it retroactive
but another local jurisdiction did just that. Paid back a pay raise they recieved earlier in 2010. Wasn’t teamsters, but it was another labor union.
That's pretty disgusting...
especially since they’ve already given up so much – the money “saved” via the furlough process should’ve been enough to wipe out the increase paid in July. Christ – why do people even bother unionizing any more if they are going to bend to management like this?
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 1, 2010 1:38 PM EST up reply actions
re: the walking dead writing staff getting shitcanned
kenjimeadu 138 points 10 hours ago[-]
It’s not mentioned, but sometimes writing staff gets let go when there’s a huge time between seasons. Otherwise, the company is paying for weekly retainers as their people do nothing. I’d rather that money get spent on quality production.
Just throwing this out there...
Hey look, mister - we serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint "atmosphere".
by duck on Dec 1, 2010 9:28 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Interesting
I have been stressing about something similar for grad school. Maybe the key is to shoot for the stars get rejected and then have a crusade in proving yourself for the rest of your life.
The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.
by James (Lost in Boston) on Dec 1, 2010 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
I think with grad schools it depends what you're trying to accomplish
if you’re just trying to accumulate skills to bolster your current career then the prestige of the school doesn’t really matter, but if you’re trying to switch industries or get your foot in the door of a highly selective company then I think it is very important. I’m kicking that question around right now myself.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Yeah
New Industry for me.
The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.
by James (Lost in Boston) on Dec 1, 2010 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I'll agree that what school you pick for a graduate degree might matter.
I’ll add the caveat that it may matter more if you plan on staying in academics. If you are getting an advanced degree to improve your career opportunities, I don’t think it matters as much. At least if you are not thinking of changing employers immediately. If you are choosing because you are switching, then yes, it might matter. There is no shortage of people in this country who pick image over substance, appearance over performance.
As for undergraduate school, I’ve always known that picking an school based on ‘name recognition’ is a extremely overrated, at least in regard to quality of education. (Need I remind anyone that the folks who gave us the last recession are primarily the product of an Ivy League education.) The one possible advantage going to an elite school that I can see is the contacts you make. Who you know still can count for more than what you know, at least in regard to the opportunities that come your way.
Commenting on allegations on the use of torture against terrorost suspects: "If hooking up one raghead terrorist prisoner's testicles to a car battery to get the truth out of the lying little camel shagger will save just one Canadian life, then I have only three things to say:
Red is positive, black is negative, and make sure his nuts are wet"
Don Cherry
Agreed
with both paragraphs. The who you know thing is huge I think.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I have a couple of graduate degrees.
But I don’t know anybody.
Commenting on allegations on the use of torture against terrorost suspects: "If hooking up one raghead terrorist prisoner's testicles to a car battery to get the truth out of the lying little camel shagger will save just one Canadian life, then I have only three things to say:
Red is positive, black is negative, and make sure his nuts are wet"
Don Cherry
makes sense
I’m about to graduate from a “top” art school and frankly, I don’t think I have any extra money-making abilities than I had when I was at Howard Community College. Obviously I’m older/more mature now but I’m just ass terrified of the real world.
cxcxcxcxzzzzzzzzz
um, kind of a load of crap
A long-term study of 6,335 college graduates published by the National Bureau of Economic Research found that graduating from a college where entering students have higher SAT scores — one marker of elite colleges — didn’t pay off in higher post-graduation income. Researchers found that students who applied to several elite schools but didn’t attend them — either because of rejection or by their own choice — are more likely to earn high incomes later than students who actually attended elite schools.
Any study that defines “success” as “higher income” is a nonstarter in my book.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Obviously, you're not a Republican.
:)
Hey look, mister - we serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint "atmosphere".
Screw that study
It worked for me.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 1, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
that quote is just incomplete, and by itself, it's nonsense
The follow up sentence hits the money and follow traditional research on socio-economic status.
In a summary of the findings, the bureau says that "evidently, students’ motivation, ambition and desire to learn have a much stronger effect on their subsequent success than average academic ability of their classmates."
Your mother.
it's kind of a "duh" study
and I’d argue that “motivation, ambition and desire to learn” are directly correlated with “academic ability” (whatever that means). I’d also argue that taking the SAT is a particular skill and one that’s highly useless in real life. Not that I know anything about real life.
My point: “success” seems to be largely based on self motivation and not some innate ability.
cxcxcxcxzzzzzzzzz
success is not largely based on self motivation
It’s certainly important but family background is just as important if not more.
Your mother.
I was gonna say something about that, and I agree
but I was kinda thinking motivation vs. innate whatever provided an equal starting point. Also, family background plays into the motivation thing.
cxcxcxcxzzzzzzzzz
Innate ability is a big part of it, though.
You really have to have both drive and ability to be particularly successful in a worldly (money, fame, power, etc.) sense. Drive isn’t enough by itself if you just don’t have the intelligence or people skills to do what you hope to do. Conversely, there are plenty of very smart and/or popular people who either don’t have much desire for worldly success or are lazy enough to be self-sabotaging.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
Innate ability is a big part of it, though.
It depends on what you mean by innate ability. If you mean IQ, a proxy of intelligence, the (controversial and hotly contested) research shows that it has a very small effect. If you mean motivation by innate ability, then yes, it’s important but it’s largely a function of family background.
Your mother.
Have any links?
I know a lot of people don’t like IQ much, but it’s my understanding that it’s still a pretty good measure of traditional definitions of intelligence, and that it only gets really murky when you start considering other things as components of intelligence (which may or may not be a good idea).
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
Have any links?
Cracking the Bell Curve by the Berkeley sociologists. They do a pretty good job in show the (small) effects of IQ. And how IQ is measured and what is measures is covered extensively in the book.
Your mother.
All I can say is
when I get a kid who’s full-scale IQ is 75, and has a reading comprehension level of 2nd grade, that’s a pretty good indication that student doesn’t belong in my pre-AP class.
Hey look, mister - we serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint "atmosphere".
Ok... I'm sure most people will agree with you
The bigger question is what lead to that 75 IQ score. Some of it is biology, some of it is social.
Your mother.
sure
but he isn’t doomed to a life of failure just because of that. Nor is he guaranteed success. I don’t even think you’re arguing. Why am I arguing? Who am I? What is this?
cxcxcxcxzzzzzzzzz
Met anyone with a 75 IQ and a 2nd grade reading level?
You’ll hope they aren’t doing anything your life depends on.
Hey look, mister - we serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint "atmosphere".
Only problem I see with that is ...
… there are 20 – 30 other kids in the class that also need teaching. There are only so many hours in the day and every kid deserves your best. Even the ones who don’t want to be there. Maybe them the most.
Commenting on allegations on the use of torture against terrorost suspects: "If hooking up one raghead terrorist prisoner's testicles to a car battery to get the truth out of the lying little camel shagger will save just one Canadian life, then I have only three things to say:
Red is positive, black is negative, and make sure his nuts are wet"
Don Cherry
that's not quite what the article was implying
when the article says “higher SAT scores — one marker of elite colleges”, it’s simply saying that high SAT scores are generally correlated with an “elite” school, because schools whose students have high SAT scores happen to usually be selective in all aspects of the application. I don’t think it meant there’s some kind of causative relationship (i.e. high SAT score <→ intelligence or success)
This isn't a response to your comment
but I hated that bit about “"higher SAT scores — one marker of elite colleges,” in the article. It’s really swarmy writing because the author is sort of twisting what’s found in the article in order to fit his agenda. Since the NBER people didn’t look at the effects of “elite colleges,” which would have been very easy to do but they probably didn’t do since it wasn’t a concern for them, the author focused on the SAT findings because they supported his argument even though there isn’t any direct evidence for what the author was trying to say. SAT scores aren’t just correlated with elite schools, they’re correlated with good schools in general, some of which are not “elite.”
Your mother.
If anyone has ever read
“Looking Beyond the Ivys” by Loren Pope, then it’s this idea.
Where are my shoelaces?
A little late,
but this article has some gems:
Alex Rodriguez is thankful the Yankees do give players contracts well into their 40s so long as they represent the organization by opting out of their current deal during the World Series, cheating on their wife and using steroids.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
A-Rod
Can you believe MLBTV Prime 9 had him ranked directly behind Brooks (who was number 6) as the best third baseman in history. When did he make the move to third, 2004 or 2005? I am officially boycotting Prime 9 from now on.
I don't have MLBN so I can't comment specifically
But while he doesn’t have the years in and isn’t the greatest defensive 3B in the world (although I don’t think he’s awful certainly), it’s hard to argue with his offensive numbers. There’s no doubt in my mind that if he hadn’t moved to 3B at the age of 28 he’d go down in history as the greatest shortstop of all time. He is a douche and a half but he’s the best player I’ve ever seen play. Bonds was better and there’s an argument for Pujols but given they both have only been in the NL I haven’t seen much of them.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
There’s no doubt in my mind that if he hadn’t moved to 3B at the age of 28 he’d go down in history as the greatest shortstop of all time.
I was about to say that. Why did A-Rod gives his throne to best SS ever will go down as the one of the most curious footnotes in baseball history.
Your mother.
Because Jetah! is the greatest most storied shortstop in the history of shortstops!
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
yes, but books 20 years from now
will talk about the psychology of A-Rod and lay out the drama like it’s an episode of Jersey Shore.
Your mother.
So Jeter was all...
“Cynthia Rodriguez is a fat cow and I saw A-Roid (that juice-head gorilla) making out with some Miami Tranny’s”. Then Jorge started in on Jeter – “Hey, call her a cheap whore all you want, but you don’t evah call a woman a cow, then we gonna have a situation!”.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 1, 2010 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
according to BBRef
A-Rod has 40.9 WAR IN 1028 games since moving to third base. Robinson has 69.1 WAR in 2896 games. it’s pretty impressive considering the playing time difference, as well as the fact that he moved to 3B at the age of 28….
It's worth pointing out
that B-R and FanGraphs have very different ideas of how many wins Brooks was worth: FanGraphs has him at 94.6 WAR — that 25-win difference is the biggest discrepancy between the two systems — while FG has 3B A-Rod about the same as B-R, at 43.9 WAR.
My completely unbiased opinion is that FanGraphs is more accurate.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
The second wild card
one owner said, "our ideas aren’t as much what’s right for the sport as what’s right for revenues. My team is worth a lot more than it was when I bought it. It’s sort of like blood money, though."
This quote is a clear a statement of MLB’s top priority. All the owners are of the same religion when it comes to revenue/money.
Regardless of how sound, forget any arguments about ‘fairness’ in the sport. Does it ever make you wonder why you give money to the big business that is pro sports?
Because what else am I gonna do, not be a baseball fan?
Things like that do disgust me to an extent, but they’re not going away. And I can’t stop liking baseball. And I can’t become one of these people who only follows the minors. So I pay attention to the game and try to forget about that kind of thing.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
fortunately there is a man whose only job, really, is to protect
the integrity of the game from the competing money-grabbing interests of owners and players, and I have full faith that Bud Selig can….
uh, shit.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
The vibe in Passan's article is that Selig probably doesn't even want this
But he can’t stop it since he started it in the first place with the first wild card.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
that really makes no sense
he’s the commissioner. If he can’t stop this now, will he be unable to stop it in ten years when we want to add two more wild cards? And so on and so on and so on until even the Orioles are making the playoffs every year?
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
my reason
why I hated the idea. it is like when you sucked in little league but you still got a trophy.
I don't think that argument is that no one can stop it
Just that Selig, being the person that he is, won’t be able to do it. Or maybe I’m just inferring that.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
Selig CAN stop it
He’s just choosing not to, because the owners will Fay Vincent him if he tries out that “best interest of the game” power he has as commish.
Hey look, mister - we serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint "atmosphere".
I still watch sports
But significantly less than I did in the past. Net result is, I spend significantly less watching those fewer games.
I guess I pay less attention to sports because I can’t forget about ‘that kind of thing’.
So, here's an interesting thing
that’s aggravating even though I don’t think the Orioles did anything wrong (though they certainly didn’t do anything proactively right either).
25 of the 27 players offered arbitration turned it down (the only exceptions were two relievers, Frank Francisco and Jason Frasor). This makes the sandwich round of the draft almost the size of the other rounds, which I would think significantly affects the quality of the Orioles second and third round draft picks. Food for thought.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
Does it though?
2010: 18 sandwich round picks
2009: 17
2008: 16
2007: 34
2006: 14
2005: 18
2004: 11
2003: 8
2002: 12
25 is high, but its not THAT much higher than in recent years (what happened in 2007?). It does diminish the value of the other picks, but i’m not sure its enough to effect the calculus of signing type A and B free agents.
willie handled his tenure with the hideous mets and with the fickle nyc media with the outmost class and calmness. he will be a huge boost for Team.
Or he'll have almost zero impact
And none of us will have any clue which it is…
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
if we can argue over how lucky roulettte players are for six hours
we can argue over whether Robert Andino wouldn’t have thrown that ball away if we had Brian Butterfield instead of Willie Randolph
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
WILLIE FOR MANAGER!
No, but seriously, I do like the move though. I just don’t expect him to be around in 2012.
"Tragedy is what happens to me. Comedy is what happens to you." -Mel Brooks
Regarding Kam
He seems to me like the kind of reliever that will really have it one year and then lose it the next. That’s one of the issues with being a guy who is fourteen feet tall. But his fastball is mid-90s with good movement and he always has a high K rate (to go along with his high walk rate, of course). I think with one option left, the Orioles give him a chance in ST then stash him at AAA if it doesn’t work out from the get-go. I don’t think you can factor Kam (or any reliever) into the Orioles future, really, because things change with them so much from one year to the next.
I do agree that signing FA relievers is a bad idea unless you can get them on the cheap (Will Ohman was a good signing last year), because unless it’s someone like Mariano Rivera who comes along once in a baseball generation, it’s rarely going to be worth it in the long run (and even he isn’t worth the money he commands).
Bullpens are the most perplexing thing to me anyway. It’s the closest thing in baseball to a crapshoot as far as I can tell. It often seems that the best teams in any given year will have a bullpen just made up of random guys that no one really would have counted on for anything substantial.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
by Stacey on Dec 1, 2010 10:38 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Nicely Said
The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.
by James (Lost in Boston) on Dec 1, 2010 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
+1
I still have a lot of faith in Kam, primarily because of the nature of relievers.
Signing relievers, especially when they cost a draft pick, is criminal (Gonzalez). Trading relievers (Sherrill) is awesome. So I guess that means I’m all for drafting guys with “live arms” and seeing what sticks.
Librarians are hiding something
You know, as bad as the Gonzalez signing was, that'
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
ahhhh
“As bad as the Gonzalez signing was, that’s how good the Ohman signing was. More of that, please!”
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
similarly...
the guts waiver wire pickup seemed like such a solid pick, but since, seems to be the exception rather than the rule.
..signed to be a reliever, iirc.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
by j.q. higgins on Dec 1, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
If you put Danny Cabrera in the bullpen
you have Kam Mickolio.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with this line of reasoning.
Rec.
Commenting on allegations on the use of torture against terrorost suspects: "If hooking up one raghead terrorist prisoner's testicles to a car battery to get the truth out of the lying little camel shagger will save just one Canadian life, then I have only three things to say:
Red is positive, black is negative, and make sure his nuts are wet"
Don Cherry
Moyer will totally come back from TJ
with a new 95 mph fastball.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
Jeter
Let’s hope that the Yankees sign him to a 4-5 year deal. That is the best outcome for us. Then, the Yankees will have to deal with a physically diminished shortstop in the out years of the contract. 6 years would be even better.
but then he gets what he wants
no, I’d rather see Boston overpay for him. that’d be a laugh and half.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Where does Mickolio fit into your vision of the Orioles’ future? -Andrew
AAA. Unless he can fix his control, he’s not going to cut it in the big leagues.
Your mother.
Dunn
On the subject of life as a designated hitter, Dunn told The Washington Post earlier this year, "I think everyone pretty much knows that’s something I don’t want to do at this point in time of my career."
If that is truly how Dunn feels, then he offers less lineup versatility — and hence less value — to American League clubs.
This is just nonsense. His anti-DH stances makes him more marketable because it allows NL teams to bid. Teams rarely give out big, long term contracts to DH only guys. And I don’t think he doesn’t want to DH at all. He just doesn’t want to be a full-time DH. If we’re going overpay for this guy, we better get some defensive value out of him. Otherwise, we’re just signing another 2010 version of Luke Scott.
Your mother.
Would it be a bad thing to have two 2010 Luke Scotts in the lineup for 2011?
I see that as a good thing. I’ll take whatever they can give collectively in 1B defense for the offense.
Hey look, mister - we serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint "atmosphere".
I was just about to ask that.
2010 Luke Scott was pretty absurdly awesome.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
It's great to have 2 Luke Scotts, of course!
But my point is that talent like Dunn could be found a lot cheaper and easier if he’s going to be a DH only. You might not get the exact same production but you can get something close for a much better price.
Your mother.
quite...
we’ve done a good job of identifying the last few years.
oh. wait.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
off the top of my head,
it wouldn’t surprise me to see carlos pena have a nice bounce back year.
Your mother.
Eh
How much of a bargain are we going to get him for? He’s 2 years older and has only had 3 years in his entire career that compare to Dunn’s standard production.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
in terms of price...
and defense, definitely a steal. how much does he left in the tank offensively? who knows? they could probably do a bargain basement one year w/ incentives and second year option.
looking at dunn comps and prospects of him collapsing, has there ever been a slugger his size? he dwarfs the guys listed as comps by bp.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
You really think Pena is going to be a steal? I mean obviously he’ll be less than Dunn, but I figured he’d still get a decent contract.
I think Thome is a good comp for Dunn – a few inches shorter, but they are much closer in weight than their list weight indicates.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
So is the Beav...
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
I was thinking it but keeping quiet. lol
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
you kept quiet?
i find that hard to believe.
Your mother.
by birdman on Dec 1, 2010 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm telling you I've matured now that I'm married!
haha
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
+1
I agree. 2 factors:
2010 BABIP: 222 (career: 279)
2010 LD%: 14.5 (career 18.0%)
His BABIP would tell me he’s due for a bounce back, his LD% is disconcerting however. I think the appeal of Pena is also his contract length…1 year would suggest to me that the Orioles could be in the running for AGon and Fielder in 12 months, which I don’t think would be possible with Dunn.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
still
even if he’s due for a bounce back, what’s it going to be to? As I said he’s had one unbelievable season (2007), and 2 very good (but not as good as Adam Dunn’s average season) seasons (2008 and 2009), and then 6 ok/sort of good seasons. He’s not likely to ever approach his 2007 season again and it seems to me that even if he has a solid bounce back the best you can hope for his an OPS+ of 1115-120.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Fielder
I think the larger issue is not how to view Pena, but it’s to weigh the gamble of:
- pursuit of Prince Fielder, how will he age and would he sign in Baltimore
- pursuit of Dunn, who would sign in Baltimore, versus his defense and how he will age
I’m just assuming Adrian Gonzalez will sign in Boston.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh
If we’re worried about the size of Dunn’s contract and aging, I’m terrified about those issues for Fielder. He’s going to get a gigantic contract and look at his pops’ post age 27 years. And Jr.’s actually fatter than his dad was at his age…
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I'm not disagreeing
Though I’m not sure what the age advantage will do for Fielder v. Dunn. How is Fielder v. Dunn defensively?
Again, I’m not sure where I come down on this answer and wouldn’t be upset over signing Dunn. But I’m also not sure that it’s the best move either.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I’m too lazy to look up Fielder’s fielding stats, but I assume he’s better than Dunn. The comparison to his dad might be sort of unfair (his dad has some other demons in addition to the weight – does he still owe some casinos money??), but it seems worth considering.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Fielder's pretty bad
career UZR/150 of -6.7. the fans don’t like him either – he had an overall fans’ scouting report rating of 26 (Dunn rated a 25). Dunn’s UZR/150 was even worse (-14.4) but at least he has the excuse that he wasn’t a full-time first baseman until partway through the 2009 season.
I'm assuming AGon signs with NYY
And he and Tex flip coins each day to see who’s 1B and who’s DH.
Hey look, mister - we serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint "atmosphere".
Nah he's going to Boston.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
am starting to waiver on being against signing Dunn
Though I agree that overpaying for a DH is not a good idea, a lineup of:
Roberts, Pie, Markakis, Dunn, Scott, Wieters, Jones, Wigginton (3B), black hole known as SS
That’s not too bad, really. Definitely lefty heavy though.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
adam jones just wteeted
that he may have to go to LA today and he doesnt knwo why… :/
if hes been traded im pretty sure ima stab someone…>:/
It’s the Ric Flair Theory of baseball – To be the man, you gotta beat the man. -duck
and i just realized i mad an ton of speed typing errors..
my bad
It’s the Ric Flair Theory of baseball – To be the man, you gotta beat the man. -duck
by Parkinglotninja on Dec 1, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
loose lips
Wasn’t Jones let the cat out of the bag on the Bedard trade a week before it happened?
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
yes.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
i also just checked his profile..
and all the orioles stuff has been removed from his bio and it now says future unknown…. if adam HAS been traded (purely speculation) i wonder what of equal value we could have gotten in return..
It’s the Ric Flair Theory of baseball – To be the man, you gotta beat the man. -duck
by Parkinglotninja on Dec 1, 2010 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
We live in a strange world.
"One way to lower a flag to half-mast is just to lower the flag. There's another way, though. You can raise the pole to like twice its original height." - Infinite Jest
by Eat More Esskay on Dec 1, 2010 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
You know this probably doesn't mean anything
But holy shit imagine they traded Adam Jones?
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
It would have to be part of something pretty awesome right??
I know he hasn’t blown up like people were hoping, but he’s still so young and cheap with years of contract left.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Yeah, exactly. That's why it would be a holy shit moment.
It would be a big deal.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
AGON
I just can’t imagine they are trading him for Adrian Gonzalez, and if so it better come with an extension.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
why not?
he’d be a great defender at an outfield corner (Maybin was signed to play CF everyday, I imagine) and he’d probably be an offensive upgrade too. the Padres’ best hitting outfielder was Matt Stairs, who hit .232/.306/.475 facing exclusively right-handers. cheap + young + good defender = why not the Padres?
for adrian gonzalez?
I’m sure Hoyer likes Adam Jones but I doubt he would want him as a centerpiece for any trade for A-Gon.
Your mother.
There is no major league player on either of the LA teams that I would want for Jones.
Not sure about prospects, but I think Jones for prospects would be fucking stupid. Hopefully this is nothing.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think that if he's going to LA that necesssarily means he'd be going to one of the LA teams
I don’t know what it means, but it’s not like he has to report for a game or something.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
Who's his agent, and where's his office?
Hey look, mister - we serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint "atmosphere".
Well he's most likely in San Diego right?
My guess is he’s bored and decided to go to LA for the day.
There's alot more to do
in LA than in San Diego.
"Tragedy is what happens to me. Comedy is what happens to you." -Mel Brooks
Dude, lives in San Diego right?
Probably just taking a trip in his leisure.
"Tragedy is what happens to me. Comedy is what happens to you." -Mel Brooks
Matt Kemp
man, I love just throwing out names!
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I would love to get my hands
on Clayton Kershaw. He’s only going to get better.
"Tragedy is what happens to me. Comedy is what happens to you." -Mel Brooks
Kemp is slightly older and a similar player.
Wouldn’t make sense.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
huh?
he was worth 5 WAR just two years ago. Jones only has 5.5 WAR over his entire career (roughly 2.5 full seasons). Kemp has a lot of question marks but I wouldn’t say they’re similar players, ability-wise (of course, Jones still has the potential to improve).
that's a slight exaggeration
Kershaw, Billingsley, Jered Weaver, Kendry Morales… I’d consider a trade for Ervin Santana, Matt Kemp, and probably some other players I can’t think of off the top of my head. and why would Jones for prospects be stupid? if the Angels offered Mike Trout for Jones, the O’s wouldn’t exactly hang up on them….
which profile??
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Twitter.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
*made
alright.well no more typing for me today…back to work and trolling…
It’s the Ric Flair Theory of baseball – To be the man, you gotta beat the man. -duck
I have a sad confession to make as a Baseball fan.
I hate playoff baseball. The games are too long and boring, and the worst part is I feel like a bad baseball fan if I don’t watch. The beauty of regular season baseball, is that no one game is a must watch, it’s the accumulation of games that really counts. Playoff baseball, is flukish, yet I feel like I’m out of the sports loop if I don’t watch.
I am not only for not expanding the playoffs, I am for reducing the the number of playoffs team back to two from each league (never going to happen).
"Tragedy is what happens to me. Comedy is what happens to you." -Mel Brooks
by jobe on Dec 1, 2010 2:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
YES
In another thread, I wrote about doing three playoffs team in a league, and a really quick first round to start it off, with PLAYOFF DOUBLEHEADER DAY. The best team in the league would get 5-7 days off.
The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST
by the fix is in on Dec 1, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
I love playoff byes
The NFL is the only league that realizes the awesomeness of the playoff bye. It’s great because it’s a huge incentive to continue to put your best team on the field after locking up a playoff spot, and it’s extra dramatic if you lose after receiving a bye.
"Tragedy is what happens to me. Comedy is what happens to you." -Mel Brooks
But would it benefit pitchers
or throw them off schedule?
Hey look, mister - we serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint "atmosphere".
Happy Albert Belle Orioles Anniversary Day everyone!
Not believing the Adam Jones thing, but it’s fun to try to ponder. Who would be in need of a young center fielder who could give up more offense in return?
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
San Diego?
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
they don't have any offense
oh, the hot stove, I missed your insane non-news news stories.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
They have one piece of offense that we would all love to have.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
not me
what a waste that would be
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
You wouldn't take Gonzalez if we had a window to negotiate an extension?
I don’t think AM is that stupid.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Two things
1) I don’t think Gonzalez is going to sign an extension. It’s a dream fantasy that a window for such a thing would happen – especially all of a sudden to the Orioles with no reporters even mentioning it yet.
2) You’re still giving up player(s) for 2011 only. The extension is nice, but you could simply sign him in 2012 for the same money and keep your players, making the trade and extend move foolish.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
Accept that he won't come here as a free agent.
Boston is going to go all out for him. The only chance we would have is a trade and extend.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
err except.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
if he wont come here as a free agent
then why would he sign an extension here?
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
Boston hasn't had the chance to offer him $30 mil a year or whatever
they might offer. If we could sneak in and make him a great offer before anyone else could then maybe he would take it. Or not and the trade falls through. Wouldn’t hurt to try.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Pie in center
Upton in LF
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Not buying it
though that would be freaking awesome
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
I could use the excitement, at least.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
That is possible too.
Although Jones for Upton would be a dumb deal IMO. Similar players, but Upton already has a huge deal and Jones is just going to be arbitration eligible after this coming year.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
Upton >> Jones
I assume it would be something like Jones + Tillman. Hopefully not more than that.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Upton has been in the league longer.
Yea he is younger, but Jones and Upton had very similar seasons last year and I wouldn’t give Jones straight up for Upton right now, much less Jones + anything. It doesn’t make us better.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Nevermind they have been in the league the same amount of time.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
adam just tweeted
“grienke to baltimore hmmm”
followed by
“haha i can think cant i”
It’s the Ric Flair Theory of baseball – To be the man, you gotta beat the man. -duck
by Parkinglotninja on Dec 1, 2010 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Jones for Greinke?
Pie to CF, Reimold to LF. And just hope they don’t collide in the 5th game of the season?
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
you give em 5 games?
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
why not?
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
I'm pretty sure thinking isn't his strong point.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
they're not similar players...
Upton is two years younger than Jones. his career OPS is .824 in about 3 full seasons and his best season OPS is .899. at this stage in his career, Jones had just finished his first full season with an OPS of .711. sure, Upton has a somewhat expensive deal, but it goes through his prime years (age 23-27 seasons).
the biggest issue is that the Diamondbacks want 3 major league ready players + 2 prospects. Jones + Tillman would be a good starting point but we’d have to add, like, Josh Bell + Xavier Avery + Brandon Erbe (just throwing out random names) and that’s crazy. there are like 2 players in the entire major leagues that would be worth that kind of trade haul, and Upton isn’t one of them…
Wait I figured it out
Jones is screwing with us.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
So how about this Paul Konerko rumor?
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
great move...
10 years ago?
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
Bowden tweet on MLBTR
The Orioles made a significant offer to Paul Konerko.
God I hate this team.
Librarians are hiding something
second that
ugh….the Last thing we need is konerko
It’s the Ric Flair Theory of baseball – To be the man, you gotta beat the man. -duck
by Parkinglotninja on Dec 1, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
in all honesty, it could be worse
what’s the bat for Garrett?
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
It could be worse.
Like signing Fielder next offseason and watching him slowly eat his own face for the next 8 years.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't be devastated
I mean 8th in WAR last year, high enough OBP, as long as it’s nothing long term then let’s just give Konerko a shot, what if he ends up tearing it up? if not, well then we missed. again.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
offensive WAR**
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
The problem is that it probably will be long term.
4 years is a long time for a guy who is, what 35?
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
who said anything about 4 years?
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
No one.
I said it would probably be long term and just used 4 years as an estimation. My point being that Konerko isn’t going to come to a losing team on a short term contract. He had too good of a season; someone will make a better offer.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
I just can't imagine Andy MacPhail
saying to himself “I don’t want Carl Crawford for that many years! He’ll be 40 years old when we’re still paying him big bucks! Get me Paul Konerko, I want to pay him big bucks long-term to come to Baltimore!”. Andy’s not an idiot.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
Andy’s not an idiot.
That’s debatable.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
I knew someone would say that
and I want to express disapproval at that mindset.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
He's not an idiot,
but he’s also the 5th best GM in the division.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
that's debatable, too
he’’s certainly the least successful of the AL East GMs…but its impossible to say if he’s really the worst.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
I think I’d rather any GM in the division over him. The team has to have a better GM than the Sox and the Yankees to compete long term, and AM is not that person.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
what do you base that on
I’m not agreeing or disagreeing, but I want to know your thought process here.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
I hate to punt, but I’ll have to answer this question later, my lunch break ends in six minutes!
Basically he:
- hasn’t used roster space well
- has wasted playing time on guys who he should’ve known better
- hasn’t increased the Latin budget on a commeasurate level
- while I like that he hasn’t made too many long term mistakes, I think it’s more because of a lack of trying
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
you put AM in the yankees or sox offices
and he would succeed just as well as they do. Totally different situations to compare them.
again
the resources theo has is completely different than what AM has in Baltimore. I want to see Theo turn shit into sugar in 3 years.
I'd really prefer
he turn shit into gold, or money, or diamonds, or world series rings or something rather than sugar.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
how about spices?
He who controls the spice controls the future
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
What century are we hypothetically living in?
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I'm guessing he's making some kind of nerdy reference
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
It's from Dune. Sheesh!
"One way to lower a flag to half-mast is just to lower the flag. There's another way, though. You can raise the pole to like twice its original height." - Infinite Jest
by Eat More Esskay on Dec 1, 2010 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
I got it, EME
I got it.
Hey look, mister - we serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint "atmosphere".
Or tea.
Tea is important.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
I do not want to drink tea that has been transformed from shit
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
Gotta have opium with that.
Otherwise you’ll bankrupt your economy.
Commenting on allegations on the use of torture against terrorost suspects: "If hooking up one raghead terrorist prisoner's testicles to a car battery to get the truth out of the lying little camel shagger will save just one Canadian life, then I have only three things to say:
Red is positive, black is negative, and make sure his nuts are wet"
Don Cherry
Dune.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 6:42 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You mean Dunn.
Commenting on allegations on the use of torture against terrorost suspects: "If hooking up one raghead terrorist prisoner's testicles to a car battery to get the truth out of the lying little camel shagger will save just one Canadian life, then I have only three things to say:
Red is positive, black is negative, and make sure his nuts are wet"
Don Cherry
No he Dunn't
"Roberts is unconscious!!!!" - Jim Hunter, after Brian Roberts hits his second HR of the night. 9/21/09
The spice must flow
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
by NewYorkOriole on Dec 1, 2010 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
I prefer my spice of the glitterstim variety. Used to smuggle it all the time in this modified ship..
"I believe in Earl Weaver's 'Big Inning Theory of Baseball.' The game was created by a Boog Powell three-run shot. You can look it up."
I'm not sure of your point?
What does AM not wanting to give Carl Crawford an 11 year contract have to do with Konerko probably wanting a long term deal?
All I am saying is that a player of Konerko’s caliber is most likely not going to come to a losing organization on a short term deal when he could have just accepted arbitration and stayed with Chicago. The only way I can see him coming to Baltimore is on a 3-5 year deal with Baltimore overpaying.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with that
but do you think Andy MacPhail is going to give a 35 year old first baseman a 3-5 year deal? I don’t. He has demonstrated very clearly that the thing he is most scared of is years for old players.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
He offered a 32 year old 1b/c/dh
a 4 year deal.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
32 is not 35
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
True.
I just don’t have much faith left in MacPhail. He hasn’t done anything to convince me that he is capable of making Baltimore a contender in the AL east. I can easily see him offering Konerko long term in an attempt to bring in any significant FA.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
not every deal has to be a good one
Sabean’s the best example. he threw away nearly $200 million in contracts to Zito, Rowand, and Renteria and still won the World Series (with none of them starting – Zito wasn’t even on the playoff roster). MacPhail is like 1/10 as bad as Sabean on that front. what’s his worst contract – $16 million to Gonzalez? $10 million to Millwood? doesn’t even compare. and of course the other GM in the World Series, Jon Daniels, made the Adrian Gonzalez + Chris Young for Adam Eaton trade.
Sabean has to be the luckiest GM alive
I think the Giants won it all despite him, not because of him. They drafted Timmy, Cain, Posey, Bumgarner and Sanchez (a great pick obv). Huff was a guy nobody wanted to just happened to have an amazing year. They completely hit the trifecta in the draft and I’m not sure how much of that is luck v. talent, especially considering Sabean’s previous contempt for draft choices before Timmy.
Librarians are hiding something
if he produces 30+ hr for 3 of those
I’d be happy
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'll wait for some corroborating evidence
Jim Bowden is not exactly Nostradamus here.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
I love Jim Bowden
The other day on Twitter he praised the Dodgers signing Uribe with the reason being that Uribe is the best .310 OBP hitter in baseball because he still gets lots of RBI. For a second I thought I was looking at one of those joke accounts, but no. It was him.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
It's hard to argue
Is there a better 310 OBP hitter though? Sure that’s like the hottest lady at an old age home, but still.
Librarians are hiding something
When you are living in the same home ...
… making it with the hottest lady there still matters.
Commenting on allegations on the use of torture against terrorost suspects: "If hooking up one raghead terrorist prisoner's testicles to a car battery to get the truth out of the lying little camel shagger will save just one Canadian life, then I have only three things to say:
Red is positive, black is negative, and make sure his nuts are wet"
Don Cherry
we've been linked to the name
I’d be surprised if it wasn’t true.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously, if we're just itching to sign somebody expensive...
…why don’t we just go offer Carl Crawford something he couldn’t say no to? Instead of trying to give $12+ million a year for like four years to guys who are already in their mid-30s?
"One way to lower a flag to half-mast is just to lower the flag. There's another way, though. You can raise the pole to like twice its original height." - Infinite Jest
by Eat More Esskay on Dec 1, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Tough crowd...
I know we’d have to overpay. So what? We’ll have to for damn near anyone. And no way for more than 3 years, but his fangraphs show a pretty nice upswing in just about every category. Lee, Pena – they’re all trending down. I know, stats suck. Intangibles, you say? The guy gets hit in the FACE by a pitch, stays in the game, gets up the next time and hits one out? I’ll take him.
"They're throwing bottles at your house...Come one, let's go break their arms." - Henry Fool
by Fahrenheit 451 on Dec 1, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
He's too old for an upswing to last for years.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
Maybe
But my point is the other 2 guys are already headed downhill. They’ve got a much greater chance of being Garrett Part Deux than Konerko.
"They're throwing bottles at your house...Come one, let's go break their arms." - Henry Fool
by Fahrenheit 451 on Dec 1, 2010 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
that depends on what the goal of signing the beav was
and what the goal of signing whoever this year is.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
Beav
IMO, the goal of that signing was nothing more than to try to prove some horrible AM science experiment. Take a guy who was well scuffling in the NL, move him to the AL, drop him down a few thousand feet in altitude and see if it shocks the hitter from seasons ago out of him? Shocked him alright.
"They're throwing bottles at your house...Come one, let's go break their arms." - Henry Fool
by Fahrenheit 451 on Dec 1, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
I think we define upswing differently
year, slg%
2006: 551
2007: 490
2008: 438 (!)
2009: 489
2010: 584
Given that he will be 35 for the 2011 season, no way he slugs over 500 again.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Wha?
So the guy has to slug over 500 to be worth it? Again…tough crowd.
"They're throwing bottles at your house...Come one, let's go break their arms." - Henry Fool
by Fahrenheit 451 on Dec 1, 2010 8:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If we're gonna pay him north of $12 million
for multiple years? Yes. Or damn near it. His 114, 102, and 116 OPS+s of the 3 seasons prior to this one ain’t exactly blowin’ my skirt up, either. He’s 34 and just had the best year of his career; he isn’t repeating that. Or rather, it isn’t worth taking the risk that he will, because it seems highly unlikely.
"Might as well just win this game." - Adam Jones, 4/17/2008
Adam Jones is the tits.
by KenDixonFanClub on Dec 1, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
in addition to KenDixon's comments
Home and away splits from 2008 to 2010:
Home: 300/396/602 OPS: 998
Away: 259/336/424 OPS: 760
He has been tremendously aided by Comiskey being a right hand hitter’s dream.
Link.
Average firstbaseman:
263/349/451 OPS: 800
So basically the Orioles made a significant offer to a below average firstbaseman who will be 35 next year. Awesome.
Librarians are hiding something
as said about v-mart
Andy is who we thought he is. We’re in phase 2 and about ready to move into phase 3. The fact that he wants to grabs some wins from mediocre vets is completely unsurprising.
Your mother.
Lol. Now I don't mind if he is traded.
THE_ADAM_JONES id take jeter. ANYDAY
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 3:21 PM EST reply actions
nah...
o’s cut adam stern YEARS ago!
wait…what?
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
Who's he taking Jeter over?
Because let’s get real, I’d take Jeter over Cesar Izturis… just not for $25 million a year. Or even $15 million a year.
"One way to lower a flag to half-mast is just to lower the flag. There's another way, though. You can raise the pole to like twice its original height." - Infinite Jest
by Eat More Esskay on Dec 1, 2010 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
I read it like
“I could take Jeter. ANYDAY. Just pick a place, Jeets.”
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
Like I said above
Thinking is not his strong point.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
the BR
ranks Jeter as the number three free agent this year ahead of Greinke, Crawford, Werth, Dunn, etc. I’m having a very hard time figuring out how that site stays up.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
not free agents actually
“best players who could change teams”
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
By BR, do you mean The Bleacher Report?
They’re terrible.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
It stays up for the same reason
that other places stay up that are no good. On the internet (hits per day) and how many people link to adds through these places is king. Therefore as long as you have that there is no incentive to do better.
People here make a spectacle of BR (as they should) and that cute MASN girl (whom I do not know much about), but in some ways that increases traffic. When Camden Chat posts something and says “I can’t believe this, but…..”, people tend to click on it.
The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.
by James (Lost in Boston) on Dec 1, 2010 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know who Ben Nicholson-Smith is, but I asked him this:
3:39 [Comment From Tony: ]
Adam Jones tweeted a bit earlier today about having to go to LA today but he doesn’t know why. Any rumors about a trade involving him?
Wednesday December 1, 2010 3:39
3:40 Ben Nicholson-Smith: A couple people e-mailed in about that, but I haven’t heard anything concrete. People go to LA for lots of reasons, so I’m assuming it’s nothing of consequence for MLBTR readers.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 3:48 PM EST reply actions
I love that
“People go to LA for lots of reasons”
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
Yea, I know right.
People go to LA for lots of different reasons, but how many people HAVE to go to LA and aren’t told why (Not directed at you, just saying)?
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
sounds like...
one of those tarantino knockoff pictures from the late 90s.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
Who said someone told him to go there?
You’ve never said something like “I don’t know why, but i really need to get out of town for the weekend” ?
Anyone else have that FRS Healthy Energy ad on ESPNs MLB homepage?
Garrett Olsen is the guy in that ad. Pretty random.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Let me ask you all
this would be a good question of the day, but fuck it.
I would imagine that most of us are down on MacPhail right now. Maybe not completely lost faith or whatever, but down nonetheless. How would you rate your dx/dt of MacPhail satisfaction since one year ago today?
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
It's defintiely trending downward for me
On Dec 1 last year the O’s were still a few weeks away from signing Mike Gonzalez and Garrett Atkins, and the rumor of Millwood getting traded here had just surfaced. So I was probably feeling kinda good about Andy. But now on Dec 1 we have the knowledge of Millwood, Atkins, and Gonzalez plus a 4 year contract offer to Victor Martinez plus this rumored offer to Konerko all bogging him down.
I try not to be too down on Andy, he has a really tough job and I know he’s better at it than I would be. But that’s a lot of crap for 365 days.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
I feel like you're fighting yourself
like “I’m angry but I don’t want to say I’m angry”.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
I don't know that I'm angry
I’m disheartened at the direction it appears we are going. But I said a few times during this season that I’m going to give Andy this off-season to prove me wrong about what the last off-season appears to have said about him. And he’s certainly behaving differently this year, but not in a way that I find very appealing. But it’s only Dec 1, and I think Andy deserves my faith for a least a few more months.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
Same
If he was more SABER inclined, he would realize he could get comparable value from under mined sources like minor league free agents, target players who are under appreciated on their own teams, or extract value from improving the defense. Instead, he chases after mediocre vets like Millwood, V-Mart, and Konerko.
Your mother.
well, my real question I guess is
what was your satisfaction level on December 1, 2009?
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
Higher than it is today.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions
he's a solid B- GM for me.
which an improvement over every GM we’ve had since Frank Wren.
Your mother.
It’s gotta be worse than a year ago today – hardly any of the moves he’s made since then have seemed like positives. I’m also continually disappointed with our approach to talent development (in the minors and internationally), and that’s gotta fall on him. All that being said, I’m not completely sour on him. He’s made a bunch of amazing trades and the team and organization is obviously in much better shape than when he got here. If you attribute Buck coming here to AM then that’s another big positive in his favor. I just really wish he would do a better job with free agents…
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I think our expectations for MacPhail were higher than for anyone else.
Back in the early part of the last decade when we sucked, I think we were all (organization and fans) really in denial about how bad it was. But around when AM arrived, that’s when we started to realize it was bad and that things needed to be fixed. Thus it’s that much more of a disappointment when his steps to fix things are not lined up with what we feel is best.
On the whole it seems like AM’s made more good moves than bad moves, but his bad moves have been in the last year. Contract offers to V-Mart and now Konerko feel like bad moves, although the players involved not accepting negates that to some effect. Still, it’s a worrisome sign that he’s pursuing an inefficient method of team improvement. On the other hand, it’s easy to say that as computer chair GMs. I don’t know. We’ll see where we stand at the start of the next season.
"One way to lower a flag to half-mast is just to lower the flag. There's another way, though. You can raise the pole to like twice its original height." - Infinite Jest
by Eat More Esskay on Dec 1, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions
will refuse to pass judgement
until this offseason is over. No good moves = we’re screwed again
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 5:30 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
trending downward
Good:
Machado
draft budget
Hector Veloz
Tejada trade
Bad:
Gonzalez
Atkins
Tejada
questionable roster management
not enough resources in latin america
wasted playing time on guys who won’t be helpful
He only looks compared to his predecessors IMO.
Librarians are hiding something
by dfa on Dec 1, 2010 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
Britt on Konerko
http://brittghiroli.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/12/on_konerko.html
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 1, 2010 4:21 PM EST reply actions
Hey, so here's another source on Konerko
Jon Heyman!
konerko has drawn significant interest from the #orioles. but an acquaintance opined: “he’s not going to go to baltimore.”
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
ditto
The world is a mess and I just need to rule it.
by James (Lost in Boston) on Dec 1, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
me three
Editor at Baltimore Beatdown - SB Nation Baltimore Ravens Blog
by Zachary Beard on Dec 1, 2010 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
yes, please.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
bless my nippers
bless them all day long!
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
well
that settles that…who then?
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 5:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I'm tellin' you
We’re gettin’ closer and closer to re-signin’ the Beav
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Aw come onnnnn
Not even a lil’ bit funny?
Oh who am I kidding. I’m not funny. heyyyyyyyyy it’s the twistedlogic show starringgggggggggggggg twistedlogic!!
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
shitkins
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 6:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
MAKE IT HAPPEN ANDY!
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 1, 2010 5:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
according to MLBtraderumors
The A’s are still in the mix for Adam Dunn which probably means his price range hasn’t gotten out of hand yet.
Your mother.
Why Andy is a bad GM
Andrew asked that question above during my lunch break, so I thought I would get back to it now. (Sorry for the length.)
Obviously the team hired AM to get the organization out of the doldrums and to have a chance to win it all. Back in June of 2007, the Orioles were in the midst of their 10th consecutive losing season with an old roster, which is a sinful combination, and why the Orioles would suck year in and year out. Kevin Millar would go from a 1 year stopgap to a 3 year fixture. The farm system back in 2007 was probably better than it was thought, as the team featured the following players already in the system or just drafted:
Wieters, Arrieta, Reimold, Garrett Olson, and young players like Markakis, Roberts (sorta young at that point), Bedard, Loewen and Penn. Still though, the 2007 Orioles were a pretty wretched crew, with Ramon Hernandez, Kevin Millar, Brian Roberts, Melvin Mora, Miguel Tejada and an OF of Jay Payton, Corey Patterson and Nick Markakis with Jay Gibbons as the primary DH. The starting staff had Bedard, Guthrie, Cabrera, Trachsel and Brian Burres. Offensively, most of those players best days were in the rearview mirror. And while the pitching staff had potential, well, that’s probably the best thing I can say about it.
So I was giving MacPhail a pretty long leash. He made the right moves in dealing Tejada and Bedard. It’s unfortunate Miggi had the wrist injury in early July of 2007, as it would have been interesting to see what he could have fetched at the deadline (and if newly hired AM would’ve made any deal). And really I was against the idea of quantity over quality, but AM has proved to be right as rain on those 2 big trades, especially since he flipped Sherrill for Josh Bell.
However, I don’t think AM is doing enough. The GM has to have a vision, and to borrow a phrase from Billy Beane, has to be either on the verge of something special or building towards it. And it was painfully clear that 2008, 2009 and 2010 were throwaway seasons. I don’t begrudge AM for the 5th place finish in 2010. What I do find fault in him simply comes down to utilizing all his resources effectively. And by resources that goes beyond cash. The Orioles threw away very precious at bats on a guys that could have reasonably predicted to have been crappy, or at best not part of the next relevant Baltimore Oriole team (be it guys like Millar and Huff or Tejada and Atkins). Why were the Orioles wasting ABs on these guys? AM comes out before 2010 and says some crap like ‘wins matter’. So is that justification to sign Garrett Atkins and Michael Gonzalez? Really?
I am not sure AM recognizes where they are in the success cycle. I have linked the article below but below is the money quote:
Recognizing a team’s place in the cycle is perhaps the key element in any team’s game plan, because it drives decision-making. If a GM misreads his team’s place in the cycle, he may get overaggressive and commit too much cash in an effort to win before a core is in place, and quickly fall back to the rebuilding stage. On the other hand, being too passive with a team ready to win can cost the franchise a shot at a pennant.
If the team is making non-sensical offers for VMART and Konerko (allegedly), what does that say about the mindset? Does AM believe the Orioles can really compete in 2011, with a very young rotation? In the AL East?
What he should have been doing over the last two seasons is given young players with upside a chance to play at various places around the infield rather than signing the likes of Tejada and Atkins. What he should be doing now is recognizing that paying out a lot money to a guy like VMART to play first or Konerko to not hit in Comiskey doesn’t help this team in the long run. It just seems like he is waiting to burn that cash, without realizing he is paying for diminishing returns. And the Orioles can definitely not afford that.
In fairness, the 2011 25 man roster should be stronger than it’s been in awhile. Damning with faint praise of course, especially considering that AM should be a few more steps ahead than where the team is.
Other issues:
The Roberts extension was a year or two too long, given aging patterns of second basemen.
While Latin American spending has increased, it hasn’t gone up enough.
The team needs to be more creative in its 40 man roster. While this is more of a minor criticism, I’m not sure why the Orioles choose to not utilize waiver wire or Rule 5 as much as I feel they could, especially given the crap they have left on the roster.
Success Cycle article
BA top 10 prospects for 2007
2007 Orioles draft
Librarians are hiding something
but AM has proved to be right as rain on those 2 big trades, especially since he flipped Sherrill for Josh Bell.
Tejada trade blew. Patton, the gem of the trade, has done shit. Albers sucks. Costanza is no longer with the O’s.
However, I don’t think AM is doing enough. The GM has to have a vision, and to borrow a phrase from Billy Beane, has to be either on the verge of something special or building towards it.
Geeeet ’emmmm.
Why were the Orioles wasting ABs on these guys? AM comes out before 2010 and says some crap like ‘wins matter’. So is that justification to sign Garrett Atkins and Michael Gonzalez? Really?
He’s doing inbetween shit. That’s why he’s after Atkins, Gonzo, Millwood, and now V-Mart and Konerko. And it’s not even good stop gap moves either!
The Roberts extension was a year or two too long, given aging patterns of second basemen.
Roberts should have been traded for Gavin Floyd when he had the chance. The fact that he let Chris Getz ruin the deal is redonkulous.
Your mother.
Tejada trade blew.
Luke’s been pretty good…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
According to B-R...
he’s been three wins better than Tejada over that time (ignoring Miggy’s -0.4 WAR with us this year).
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 2, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
Of course...
Miggy may still have been our SS (atr least for a season or 2) vs Luke who was a part time OF and DH. That said, i’m quite happy with the trade. Not enthralled or anything, but it’s was plenty good.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
FUCK!
Yeah, I was thinking in terms of young talent (sort of like I usually forget about Sherrill in the Jones trade and insert Bell). But yeah, Luke alone made the Tejada worthwhile.
Your mother.
Not to mention...
the fact that not a day or two after the deal was announced, Miggy got nailed on the Mitchell report.
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Dec 2, 2010 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know if Patton doing shit
is the result of him being bad or the result of him not getting a chance to pitch. come on, tell me he’s not as good as Pedro Viola with a straight face, yet Viola pitched more than him last year, no? that being said, Scott was the “gem” of the trade in hindsight.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 2, 2010 8:46 AM EST up reply actions
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