Sunday Open Thread
by duck on Dec 19, 2010 8:00 AM EST
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I'm on the road all weekend, so no news clippings today. Feel free to discuss all things baseball, Orioles, UMd football, or whatever strikes your fancy. Except fashion. Y'all got some weird ideas on that. Diagonal striped ties with plaid shirts? Really?
Why, she lights up like a firefly whenever you are around. Besides, Sam Wainright is off in Open Thread, and you're here in Bedford Falls...
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Mike Leach, College Park bound
according to one report anyhow
"On my tombstone just write, 'The sorest loser that ever lived.'"
Earl Weaver
and of course, a year after I leave.
hopefully we can get some respect back to the program.
"On my tombstone just write, 'The sorest loser that ever lived.'"
Earl Weaver
Greinke deal official
The Royals, in exchange for Greinke, shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt and $2 million, will receive shortstop Alcides Escobar, center fielder Lorenzo Cain, right-hander Jake Odorizzi and a player to be named later, FOXSports.com has confirmed.
Both Escobar and Cain projected to be regulars for the Brewers in 2011. Odorizzi was perhaps the Brewers’ most highly regarded young pitcher.
Greinke, the 2009 American League Cy Young winner, is due $13.5 million in each of the next two seasons. Betancourt is signed for $4 million next season with a $6 million club option or $2 million buyout for 2012.
Greinke waived his no-trade clause to accept the deal with the Brewers — something he wasn’t as willing to do with the Washington Nationals. The Royals were close to a deal with the Nats, but Greinke would have wanted compensation to waive his no-trade clause before going to Washington.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I feel sorta bad for the Royals
They lost all leverage when Greinke demanded a trade. As poorly run of a franchise as that is, they didn’t really get a chance to do something right.
i'm not in depth in prospects..
but that doesn’t look like too bad of a haul though, does it?
What up?
by snakethejake on Dec 19, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
I think it makes a midseason trade of Fielder less likely
so any chance of a trade-and-extend deal is probably off the table
That's probably a good thing for us
It keeps us from throwing away prospects for a year of Prince, and it keeps another team from swooping in and grabbing him before he hits FA.
On the other hand, what if they just fall short of a WS this year? Do they Try to resign Price for a year for a ridiculous amount? Does he stay on with an arb offer to have one more chance to win there?
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
No to 3 years for LaRoche
I wasn’t even convinced I wanted him for 1 year over Lee for 1. If Lee will take 1 year and LaRoche demands 3, I’ll gladly take Lee.
Okay, but what about 2012? Is anything on the table?
If the Kiddie Corps delivers, and everyone else plays up to their potential, we could be a first base guy away from really making some waves. What are our options?
There are plenty of options
If Lee works out on a 1 year deal, and I think he has the potential for a rebound season, then you can always resign him. As mentioned, Fielder will almost definitely be a free agent. There’s also the possibility that Bell is ready to take over 3rd and you can shift Reynolds to 1st. Pena only signed a 1 year deal with the Cubs and will be available again. Michael Cuddyer could be interesting option depending on what his 2011 looks like and if the Twins let him hit free agency. People have also thrown out a few decent prospects that are presently blocked on their current teams, opening up the possibility of a trade for either the major league player or the prospect.
In other words, I wouldn’t panic about not locking up a 1st baseman this offseason.
And that 'not panicking' part
wasn’t specifically directed at you, i wasn’t sure if that sounded harsh or not.
It absolutely did not sound harsh
I just appreciate that a bunch of people here are giving me a much better understanding of the game. 6 months ago I thought WAR meant us against the bad guys in Afghanistan:)
If Lee works out on a 1 year deal, and I think he has the potential for a rebound season, then you can always resign him.
Not sure why you think it’ll be easy to resign Lee if he works out for a year.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Huh?
A trade is only one way of aquiring him, and it isn’t the best idea. If they dont trade him this year, he’s still a FA. We could still look to sign Lee or Laroche and go after him in the offseason.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
what do we do?
Give LaRoche a 3 year deal.
What should the Orioles do?
Give Lee a 1 year deal, and pursue Fielder next year.
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
LaRoche and Fielder are not mutually exclusive
play LaRoche at 1st, Fielder at DH, figure something out between Riemold / Pie / Scott in LF (all 3 would have trade value of course).
Ah, Yuniesky Betancourt -- the Slavic-Hispanic name Vladimir Guerrero only WISHES he had
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
by Titov on Dec 19, 2010 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
so, just for fun...
What would it have taken the O’s to get him? Nevermind that he probably wouldn’t come here if he wouldn’t go to Washington.
Tillman, Jones, and Givens? Would they need another player? Swap Tillman with Britton? Doesn’t sound like something I’d want to do.
the problem is
the Royals wanted a cost-controlled ML ready middle infielder and a cost-controlled right-handed CF. Jones is entering arbitration, and we obviously don’t have a middle infielder. so we would have had to give up more on the pitching front. the pitchers Milwaukee gave them were their 1st and 3rd best prospects according to BA. so for us, I think we would have had to give up Britton + either Tillman or Arrieta to begin with. then maybe Hoes + Avery or Hoes + Jones would have been enough.
i have a feeling unreported issues were pushing the deal NOW (and I mean literally this minute) but
this deal illustrates the difficulty of landing another’s team blue chip prospect. 4 players for Greinke, none of them high end prospects.
Spewing negativity.
The Royals lost most of their leverage
when Greinke said he wanted out.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
yeah but the dodgers were putting together a counter package
the royals told them that time ran out, at least that’s what i heard on xm radio home plate.
Spewing negativity.
Brewers trying to go for it
before Prince inevitably leaves via FA. A few small market teams saw what SF did last year and are a little more optimistic.
Unfortunately the Red Sox had a good off season but anything can happen.
UMD Football?
How about the big Delaware/Eastern Washington championship matchup???
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 12:03 PM EST reply actions
Who????
I only deal with big leagues. Ask AndrewG about that minor league stuff.
"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan
by duck on Dec 19, 2010 12:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Oh no you didn't!
Z-snap.
At least we settle it on the field.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
go Blue Hens!
Watched the game on TV, wanted to stay in Newark to watch it but had to come home. I was relieved that Villanova lost to Eastern Washington, it seems we can’t beat them no matter what we do.
Damn, this is why i hate having to submit picks an hour for the game
My Rams-Chiefs pick was entirely dependent on whether or not Cassel played. Hopefully he’s well under 100%.
Eagles fans are officially my most hated fan base now
Overtaking the likes of Cowboys, Yankees, and even Red Sox fans. Mind you, it isn’t all Eagles fans, but there are actually still people who defend what Vick did and, shockingly enough, defend him by saying there is no evidence that he personally killed dogs. The guy admitted it and they still deny it. I have to say that I don’t think I can remember anything sports-related that has made me angrier than that. How do people just look past the facts that easily? How can anyone defend what he did just because he’s good at football?
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Where are these people who are totally denying that it even happened?
And to some degree I do understand the argument that not everyone hold dogs in the same regard, though I do believe that Vick’s actions go well beyond the ‘not everyone things of dogs as pets’ angle. But denying that it ever happened is just silly.
You can read...
this thread for an example.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Well yeah, then those people are idiots
I know i personally view what he did less harshly than other people on this site do, but i think a position that what he did is totally morally acceptable, or even didn’t actually happen, is pretty indefensible.
I couldn't agree more
The outrage over what Vick did seemed incredibly out of proportion to me relative to what other players have done. But that doesn’t make it acceptable, nor does it make any sense to deny it happened.
I do think it’s a valid position to say that although what he did was wrong, he has been punished for it and it’s time to move on.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Let me put it this way
Killing a human is worse than killing a dog IMO. However, what Vick did wasn’t an accident. He didn’t drink and drive and accidentally kill dogs. He fought these dogs for his own personal gain, and then he killed them brutally for absolutely no reason. If someone had done the same thing to humans then i’d say it was worse, but obviously that isn’t the case. There are tons of terrible things that athletes do, but what Vick did was premeditated, took place over a long period of time, and was against an essentially defensless creature. There isn’t much I could find more despicable than that. He wasn’t killing these animals for food, he wasn’t harming them by mistake. He just thought forcing them to fight for their lives and then brutally killing them was ok, especially if he gained from it financially or was entertained. So fuck that guy.
Now I understand some people don’t care for animals as much as I do, but I will never understand anyone thinking that any of that is acceptable behavior.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
That's fine
and i’m not even arguing that he should have been given a more harsh crime (not that i’m saying he shouldnt have been either). However, that doesn’t mean that what he did goes away. Just because he served his time in jail doesnt mean he’s absolved of all his crimes, and I don’t forgive what he did just because he sat in jail for 18 months. He still commited those attrocious acts, and nothing is going to change that.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I don't disagree about what he did
But there have been athletes who have fired guns off in clubs, had some involvements in murders and shootings, been charged with raping women…. None of these events got close to the reaction that Vick received, and to me these are all worse than what Vick did, premeditated or not.
I have a black lab, and I love my dog, but despite the fact that she is very important to me and my family, at the end of the day, she is still just a dog (I don’t mean that as cold as it sounds).
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
firing a gun off in a club
is worse than routinely electrocuting and drowning dogs over a period of several years, after starving them and forcing them to eat other dogs?
let me just disagree with you on that one.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
PS
being charged with raping women is not at all the same thing as being guilty for it. I am obviously not defending rape in any way, shape, or form. But Michael Vick admitted to doing everything I just wrote.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I'm with you totally on that
also, the gun going off with Plax was pure stupidity. Still, he in no way was aiming to harm anyone and no one was harmed but himself. Still, he is doing more time than Vick. I cannot agree that Plax is anywhere near as bad as Vick here. Plax was pure stupidity. Vick was something completely different.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Completely agree
And I don’t think Plax’s sentence was too long. I think Vick’s was too short.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
by zknower on Dec 19, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But having the gun in the first place was a crime
The fact that it’s illegal makes him completely responsible for it going off, accident or not. If he had legally had the gun and it went off, I could excuse it as an accident.
And they essentially got the same sentence, 23 months compared to 24 months.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not arguing that it wasnt a crime
just that it was a completely different crime that, in my view, was much less heinous. Also, they may have gotten similar sentences, but they didnt serve the same time.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
At least according to Wikipedia
Bad source aside, Vick served 19 months. Plaxico will get out after 20 with good behavior. At this point, Vick served more, but both times served will likely be similar.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
The fact that they got the same sentence is absurd
Vick should have done 3-4 times as much time.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
He would have if he hadn't sold out the rest of the guys who were working with him
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 9:19 PM EST up reply actions
Did he rat on dudes?
I thought they all ratted on him.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Pretty sure he ratted them out in exchange for a lesser sentence
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
Sure
But the outrage came long before Vick was convicted (or admitted to it). The outrage was disproportional in my opinion.
And there have been a few athletes that have been convicted of rape as well, although they probably weren’t as high profile as Vick, so…
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Firing an illegal gun off in a club
Yeah, to me that’s worse. He could have easilly killed someone. To me, that trumps killing dogs.
I never heard the eating each other part, that’s one messed up mind that does that.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Holy shit!
You think accidentally shooting yourself is worse than regularly killing dogs for fun for most of your life???
Why doesn’t anybody care about intent? Plaxico was just a dumbass who made a dumbass accidental mistake. Vick intentionally tortured and killed animals for his entire life – it’s no longer what he did, but who he is.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Firing an illegal gun off in a club, yes
Plaxico’s intent was to break the law. Bring the gun to a club in Manhattan is a serious crime. While committing that crime, he’s responsible for the gun going off.
I think what Plaxico did was worse. I think what Vick did is more effed up (in terms of his mentality).
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sorry man.
But that is just laughable to me. I think you might have missed my point – my point wasn’t that Vick’s intent was to break a law and Plaxico’s wasn’t – they both intentionally broke laws. My point was that Plaxico had no evil or injurious intent (unless you think he intended to shoot himself…) whereas Vick intentionally tortured dogs for most of his life.
Quite frankly I don’t even see how they are in the same ballpark as far as severity of their crimes or punishments. One crime demonstrates almost nothing except stupidity while the other is the behavior of a total sociopath.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
If it's laughable to you, fine
To me shooting a gun off in a club is worse. The fact that he didn’t intend for it to go off is irrelevant to me because he knew having the gun was illegal. He’s responsible.
I think Vick was twisted for what he did, but I don’t think all animal fighters are sociopaths.
You may find it laughable, but the crime that Plaxico committed is far more serious in the eye’s of the law.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 9:29 PM EST up reply actions
So what seperates the sociopaths?
Some animal fighting is ok, and some isn’t?
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I think most people would probably agree with that
This wouldn’t have been anywhere near a big of a deal, in my opinion, if we weren’t talking about dogs. If he was fighting chickens or cockroaches, the word sociopath probably wouldn’t have come up.
But I don’t think animal fighting makes someone a sociopath.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
Cock fighting is pretty damn fucked up too
and also quite a serious crime. Now I will admit to not truly caring for cockroaches, but i’ve never been one of those people that thought tearing the wings off flys was cool either. In any event, torturing any animal is a sign (at least in my eyes) that a person has something quite serious wrong with them.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Oh, and...
if most people think some animal fighting is ok, then i’d like to find out who these people are so I can move as far as possible away from them.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
You think people would really be outraged by cockroach fighting???
And even cockfighting is joked about on TV.
I’m not defending any of this or saying it’s okay. If you’re a dedicated cockroach fighter (and not 6 years old), I have to wonder about your mentality, but I don’t think you are doing anything seriously wrong. And I certainly wouldn’t call you a sociopath.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, putting insect fighting aside...
if you take pleasure from forcing animals to fight each other to the death, I believe there is something seriously wrong with you. Maybe people aren;t outraged by cockfighting, but that doesn;t mean it is ok. Regardless, Vick wasn’t torturing insects. He was torturing dogs. If he was electrocuting and drowning chickens for fun i’d think he was just as fucked up as I do now.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Agreed
And nobody is saying that what he did is okay. I’m saying that doesn’t make him a sociopath.
I think what he did was seriously messed up. I’ve said so many times. I just think that doesn’t mean he’s eternally seriously messed up. I don’t think it makes him a sociopath. I don’t think it’s as serious as what many others in the NFL have done. And I think the outrage over it was disproportional to the outrage other athletes got over lesser incidents.
Take a look at what Marvin Harrison has done. I think there is little doubt he murdered someone, yet you barely hear about it.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Marvin Harrison is a degenerate
and he shot and killed a drug dealer. The difference is Marvin Harrison wasn’t killing defensless creatures for his personal enjoyment. What he did was messed up and he deserved to be put in jail, but it takes a whole different kind of fucked up to do what Vick did.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I'm done with the dog fighting
But the fact that Harrison still hasn’t been arrested is an embarassment to Philly.
Even if you don’t think he killed the guy (which is hard to believe), there is no way any rational person can believe he didn’t shoot him a few years before.
I’m out.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
He needs to be in prison. Dave is arguing that he isn’t as fucked up as Vick however….and he’d be right about that.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
I find that staggering
Harrison murdered a guy because he was being sued…. And you think he’s not as fucked up as Vick???
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
I'm saying he has alot more wrong with him in his head
Vick murdered animals for fun, and he did so viciously. Harrison killed another horrible human because he posed a threat to him. Both are horrible acts, but i’m saying you have to have a lot wrong with you to kill defensless animals for fun. Killing a person still is worse than killing an animal, but brutalizing animals who pose you no threat just for fun is a whole lot more fucked up than one terrible human killing another with motivation.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
your rationalization is incredible
yes, you’re right, it was horrible what he did. in fact, killing animals for fun is often an early sign of a psychopath. and yet there’s never been any indication that it went any further, which makes it clear he simply considered it a sport. he de-humanized, or the animal equivalent, those dogs.
horrible? yes. the same as harrison killing someone due to a dispute? not even close. if he was ever convicted in that murder, the law would recognize that it was a far more terrible act, and indicative of a far more degenerative character.
He still may be convicted of it
I just can’t believe they didn’t file charges after the initial shooting. I don’t see how that’s not an automatic conviction.
And it wasn’t the first time I’ve heard of Harrison shooting at someone.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know how horrible a human Dixon was
All I’ve heard was that he sold drugs.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
But he did a lot more than dog fighting.
He looked a dog in the eyes and choked the life out of it with his bare hands. I don’t care what anybody says about dog fighting, it takes a sociopath to do that.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
What if he
were strangling chickens with his bar hands, electrocuting them, drowning them, slamming them against the ground until they were dead? Because to me that equals a sociopath no matter what animal we’re talking about. I hate snakes, but if somebody does that shit to a snake they are a sociopath.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Also though, a lot of SBN sites are populated with morons
I’m always impressed that CC has managed to stay at such a higher level.
This is debatable.
CC has managed to stay at such a higher level.
/snark
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
We do speak of eating kitten tacos
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Well yea
Plus the fools on ESPN who comment about not caring what he did at all because he’s good at football and he served his two years etc. etc.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
here's my idea
he served his time, he does a metric shit-ton for the Humane Society, even if it’s a PR ploy, he’s still doing good. I can’t ever just “look past it” but I won’t ever condemn a man trying to better himself.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
I think the "metric shit-ton for the humane society" is a tad bit of an exageration
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
well yeah
but he’s certainly done a whole lot to educate kids on the wrongs of dogfighting. the way I see it , this is the best possible way that this situation could have gone.
- Vick got caught, awareness raised
- Vick gets out of prison and denounces dogfighting, awareness raised
- Vick signs with one of the most popular teams in the NFL, goes on to speak to his community about dogfighting, awareness raised
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
You forgot a bit...
- Vick’s popularity in Philly leads to a increase of dogfighting in the city.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
that's just fucked up
I don’t really think that he’s actively promoting it though. all signs seem to indicate that he wants the opposite. that’s completely counterproductive; if they truly saw him as an idol, they’d know that he just doesn’t want any part of that anymore. I read that it’s on the decline in other areas as well, so there’s that. plus, Philly’s always had a history of that stuff.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 9:51 PM EST up reply actions
No, I don't think he's promoting it
but bringing such a highly visible figure who is synonymous with the crime back into the limelight in a major city already chock full of the crap is bound to make it more popular. I don’t know if i’m more sickened by what he personally did or by the fact that people will openly flock to support him and emulate him after hearing about it.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
They don't care, man
If he’s good at football, they’ll love him for it. If he sucked, they’d boo his ass right out of there.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
I know
and that is what is so fucked up about it. I don’t give a fuck if he was a Giant. I wouldn’t root for him ever. Hell, i’d seriously reconsider my fandom if my team thought it was cool to sign anyone who did something like that. It would be tough, but I dont think I could support an ownership that valued winning over that. Hell, I couldnt even bring myself to pick him up in fantasy because of what he did, and that makes no difference in the world at all.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Same here
I’m already on the fringe with the Redskins (although simply out of frustration and severe dislike for Danny), but I’d never watch them if they had signed Vick. Had plenty of opportunity to get him in fantasy, but didn’t (and I’m still on track to beat the guy who does have him!)
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
I hope you do
Hell, take it to the house and win the whole thing. I now have to worry about beating him next week for 3rd place.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
good lord
so much for second chances and forgiveness and all that, huh? yeah, what he did was despicable. i love dogs, too. they’ve been family and friends.
but really, you assume so much about who vick is without actually knowing based on something terrible he did which he has suffered for, repented of, and attempted to make reparations as well as he can.
i don’t know if he’s reformed or not, but i know he deserves another chance.
and let’s be clear: he got a second chance in the NFL mostly b/c he’s a tremendous athlete. i’m referring to a second chance at life, and i mean we should allow him that much.
He has a second chance
I’m not keeping him from that. That doesnt mean I have to like the guy, and it certainly doesnt mean that he deserves to be loved and revered.
And i’m not assuming to know anything but what the facts are. He fought animals for profit, and then he brutally killed animals for nothing more than his personal pleasure. He can do what he likes with the rest of his life. I’m not holding him back. I hope he does great things to make up for what he has done, but no one should ever forget what he did.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
i’m not saying he deserves to be loved and revered. he gets that due to his success on the football field in philly. what i say is he deserves a second chance, one that you clearly begrudge him by saying you not only wouldn’t root for him, you’d even consider changing your fandom to another team if your team had signed him. that’s not forgiveness or a second chance. people like you continue to hold it against him.
i think what some people get confused about is what forgiveness is and isn’t. it’s NOT condoning his action, it’s NOT absolving him of his actions, and it’s NOT “loving and revering” him. it IS giving him another chance, not holding it against him, and allowing him to rebuild his life without the spectre of his mistake constantly held over him.
Why does he automattically deserve to be forgiven though?
He didn’t make a “mistake”. He actively made a choice, time and time again, that his personal gain and entertainment was worth more than the lives of countless animals. I’m not saying he is currently a horrible person, but that doesnt mean what he has done deserves forgiveness. He can live quite comfortably knowing some people think what he has done is deplorable, i’m sure. If that is the most of his worries than he is quite a lucky man.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
because he’s paid for his mistakes both in jailtime and huge financial loss as well as loss of reputation. because he’s owned up and repented. because he’s actively made reparations. because any person who does these things deserves a second chance, and you don’t get a true second chance without forgiveness.
but do what you want. you’re the one who has to live with the bitterness and hate.
Everything he has done
he was forced to do. He tried to cover everything up, he was forced into jail, and the financial loss was a byproduct. If you truly think he isnt getting a second chance because of me, I dont know what to tell you.
And i’m quite ok with disliking someone who brutalized animals, quite the same way i’m ok with disliking people who rape women or molest children. I don’t have to “live with bitterness and hate”. I just am comfortable knowing that there are some things I don’t think are defendable actions.
And to go further, I am all for rehabilitating anyone who can be rehabilitated, and I believe quite a bit in the power of therapy. That said, I would never completely look past what someone was capable and willing to do. Giving someone a second chance doesnt mean not condemning who they were and what they have done.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Oh my god again with the 2nd chances
He’s making millions of dollars to play a kids game – how much longer are people going to bitch about him not getting a second chance?
Also stop describing most of his life as “something terrible he did” – it wasn’t some onetime mistake. He lived it every day for his entire adult life and most of his youth.
I agree that he deserved a second chance at life – I think he should be working construction with all the other felons.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
As the Eagles fan here, I don’t want to start fights about football, or start an argument in general w/you, Dave, but I think whatever your opinion on Vick himself, I think you’re being too hard on the fans.
The Eagles signed Michael Vick. What’s an Eagles fan supposed to do? Stop loving a team they’ve cheered for (just in my case) 25 years?
Stop rooting for 52 other guys on the team, who have never run illegal dog fighting rings? Stop rooting for a coach who for all his struggles in time management seems like a decent human being who wanted to give Vick a chance because of his own sons’ struggles?
I do believe you when you say you wouldn’t root for the Giants if they signed him. But, A) it’s a lot easier to say stuff like that when it’s not your team that signed him, and B), you’re just one fan.
Do you think the Meadowlands would be empty? Would Giants games be blacked out? Or would Giants fans be the ones putting themselves through varying degrees of mental gymnastics to still root for their team? Would they be the worst fans in football then?
I'll admit, it's easy to fall into that trap
And then your team is the one that signs the guy suspended for a year for killing a guy while DWI. But we really need a 4th receiver!
Seriously, you can root for the team even if you don’t like all the personnel moves.
"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan
Ive never said they should stop being fans
and maybe I would still be a Giants fan. It’s possible. I would NEVER embrace him, or even cheer for him. If he led my team to victory, great. But would you catch me dead in his jersey? Not a chance. I dont begrudge fans supporting their team. I do find it hard to accept how quickly people decided his football accumen is more important than his past though. You can easily cheer for your team and even wish a player plays well without defending or even liking a player. Sure, it isnt even remotely the same skill wise, but people never accepted Lugo here because of his domestic violence past. I wanted him to get the key hit, but I still despise the man.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Ok, thanks man…I may have read a little too much into or taken a bit too much affront at the “my most hated fan base now” stuff.
Eagles fans are outnumbered in York by Steelers and Ravens fans, and I got a ton of shit about “How can you still root for the Eagles now?” when they signed him and then again when he was named the starter, so I’m a bit defensive.
Well I understand that
I mean, I get shit for being an O’s fan this close to NYC to this day. I’ve always hated the Eagles, so it wasnt far from my most hated fan base, but this crap just put it over the top for me. Doesnt mean that there arent Eagles fans I get along with, or even call friends.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I don't condemn him for trying to better himself
and I hope he does all the good he possibly can for animals from here on out. Still doesnt change what he did, and i’ll never look past that no matter what he does in the future. He can redeem himself to an extent, but nothing erases that kind of fucked up.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Again
I really don’t even think it’s what he did – it’s who he is and maybe if he continues on the right path for the rest of his life and works his ass off it’ll end up being who he was.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
No, i'm with you on this
It is who he was, and quite possibly is. I’m not going to say he hasn’t changed, because I don’t know, but to go from having the view that animals are fair game to torture, fight, and brutally kill for your own enjoyment to having the opinion that they are worthy of protecting and saving in such a short amount of time (and after essentially being forced to) seems like a reach to me.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I don't consider it much of a stretch because of the culture he grew up in
I’ll go there and say that he really didn’t know how bad dogfighting was until he got caught. when he got caught, he realized that what he was doing was just so wrong on so many levels. no one had put this into perspective for him. I really think he’s a changed person, prison has that effect on people, ya know?
let me ask you this: will you ever forgive him? will anything he ever does be good enough? what if he works his ass of for the SPCA? what if, when he finally gets permission to get one, gets a bunch of dogs, proves he can handle them and love them? what can he do to prove his worth?
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
WHAT?!
He didn’t know the electrocuting innocent animals was bad until he went to prison for it? That’s BS.
Where are my shoelaces?
no
what’s BS is to not consider that maybe, just maybe, that’s possible. he’s from a culture that promotes this kind of stuff!
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 10:00 PM EST up reply actions
Torturing animals is not something you just do and don't know what you're doing.
Where are my shoelaces?
how would you know?
how would ANY of us know? seriously, think about it, we have absolutely no idea what he thought about it. if bullfighting can be immortalized into a spectacle to be enjoyed in certain cultures like it is, then why can’t dogfighting?
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
Did anyone say they condone bullfighting?
Because I don’t. Still, bullfighting is less inhumane than electrocuting dogs for fun.
Where are my shoelaces?
stabbing bulls in the back for fun is more humane? that's even not what this is about.
it’s about the fact that some cultures completely condone this stuff and that has to be taken into account.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
That most certainly does not have to be taken into account
I mean, some cultures promote genital mutilation in young females. If Joe Blow from Philly PA does it here, do we have to take that into account or can we just see it for the attrocity that it is?
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I mean if he was from there, that would certainly explain why he did it
it doesn’t make it right. look I’m not trying to make it alright, I’m trying to provide an explanation that’s an alternate of the sociopath explanation.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, but Vick isnt from a country that says dog fighting is ok
I dont care what he grew up around and what city he is from. It is impossible to not know that dogfighting is not ok to do in this country.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
some people don't give two shits if it's against the law
I don’t need to tell you that, you’re a smart guy. he knew it was bad, he didn’t care.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
What's your point here?
Somebody who doesn’t give a shit at a severe penalty either has a seriously personal reason for committing a crime or they are really fucked up.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
that's just my point
he didn’t care and never thought about the consequences.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
So how is that an alternate to the sociopath explanation?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 10:25 PM EST up reply actions
absurdly stupid is different than sociopathic.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
guess I'm naive then.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
Because it isn't widely accepted and it is against the law
When you have to hide something to do it and it becomes as criminalized as dogfighting is, it is clearly wrong. I am quite sure at no point did Vick think what he was doing was A-ok to the rest of the world. If he did, he wouldn’t have denied doing so.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
and before I have to hear it...
no, something being against the law doesn’t automattically make it immoral or “wrong”, but I am sure that it makes it obvious to the people doing it that they are not supposed to be doing it, at least in the eyes of the government. When it is something like torturing animals, i’m sure people get that it’s more than just the government saying it’s wrong.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
he knew it wasn't ok with the rest of the world
quite frankly, I don’t think he cared. but in his part of the world, it was. that’s the point I’m trying to make.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
No, it wasn't ok.
Why do you think there was so much backlash? Why do you think people protested when Vick was reinstated? People were angry because nothing was “ok” about what he did. He tortured and killed animals for sport and there are few in this country who are comfortable with that notion.
Where are my shoelaces?
why do you think dogfighting is growing in Philly?
because there ARE people who accept it for what they see it as; a bloodsport to gamble on. just another way to make some money. I won’t go so far to say it’s the “norm”, but there were, what, 400 dogfighting arrests in Philly alone last year?
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 10:17 PM EST up reply actions
In Philly, maybe
But these are the fans who now worship the ground Vick walks on. Many fans around the country still despise Vick. I’ll be the first to argue that in any other career a man who spent two years in prison would not be allowed to make millions of dollars ever again. You can use Martha Stewart as an example but she’s the exception, not the rule. She also didn’t torture man’s best friend.
Where are my shoelaces?
fine
but it’d be silly to think that Philly is the only place that dogfighting takes place and has a major presence.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
you're kidding right?
you honestly think that Philadelphia is the ONLY city in the ENTIRE UNITED STATES that has a dog fighting problem?
hell here’s this
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
Most major southern cities
My gf grew up outside of New Orleans and routinely had men come up to her and ask if she wanted to fight her dog (which was a heavy wolf mix). Atlanta is a hotbed for the activity as well.
That being said, NY and NJ were hotbeds of organized crime. Doesnt mean anyone thought it was ok or right.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
What?
What culture is he from that promotes that shit? I’m pretty sure they don’t openly endorse dogfighting anywhere in America.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
look I don't need to tell you
that dogfighting is a serious problem in this country. there are PLENTY of people who will still accept it and do it.
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 19, 2010 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Oh the culture he grew up in bullshit now too
He also grew up around drug dealers – would that be a reasonable explanation if he had been financing and operating an interstate drug dealing ring too? I’m so sick of that pathetic excuse.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Easy with lumping all Eagles fans together
There are plenty of Eagles fans that refuse to root for the team until Vick is off of it. People have the right to defend him as much as you have the right to oppose it. I am not going to get into the past because what is done is done. If you choose to never forget, than that is your belief I support that you stand by your beliefs. Personally I have received a second chance in life and I am a firm believer that people make mistakes but they must learn and never make it again. So far he has shown that he is learning from that mistake and so I support that. And because the Eagles organization supported that, then I will continue to support them. I am not asking anyone to change their beliefs or mind on the situation but I do take offense that because what I root for is being lumped into supporting what Vick did prior to his second chance.
Right.
Hate Vick all you want. I completely understand that. But I don’t think someone’s an asshole for continuing to root for the Eagles post-Vick.
What if you already thought Eagles fans were assholes?
I kid, I kid.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
and I never said that they are
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I made sure to make the statement
that it isnt all Eagles fans right in the first line of the post.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I never get tired of this commercial with George Washington in the muscle car with the big American flag on the hood.
"One way to lower a flag to half-mast is just to lower the flag. There's another way, though. You can raise the pole to like twice its original height." - Infinite Jest
by Eat More Esskay on Dec 19, 2010 1:11 PM EST reply actions
My family has been all about the Mopar for as long as I've remembered.
I am less than satisfied with the way my vehicle has held up, though, so I might jump ship when it’s time to re-up. However, I think this might have been a product of getting it used. It only had 25k miles on it and now it’s got 70k and there have been more nagging issues than I’d like. Including two major things for which I had to invoke the warranty. I’d tolerate all that since it’s covered by the deductible, but it really annoys me that the paint is fading on the hood already. The car is a 2005. Heh.
"One way to lower a flag to half-mast is just to lower the flag. There's another way, though. You can raise the pole to like twice its original height." - Infinite Jest
by Eat More Esskay on Dec 19, 2010 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
Before I bought my Durango, in 2000
I was a Chevy guy. I owned three Camaros. The first was in ’83, then I bought a new IROC in ’86, and finally a new Z-28 in ’90. I held onto that for 10 years, until I bought my Durango. I pretty much have gone with what I think looks good.
But in my old age, I’m getting more and more green. Next car I get, if I live that long, will probably be a hybrid. As long as I can put my bike in the back and not have to use a bike rack.
Likewise.
My 1st truck was a 1989 Dakota. That lasted me all the way through graduating from college in ‘01. Then got a 2000 Dakota. It’s got over 125k on it now and has never had a significant maintenance issue. The only issue I have with it is the paint has faded significantly along the hood and roof. This seems to be a regular issue with Dakotas from that time frame. But, fuck it. I’m going to run this truck into the ground, hopefully it gets up to 200k, before I get an new vehicle, which will in all likelyhood be another Dodge.
Now, Harold, he's a friendly guy. He rambles on and on. He'll talk the balls off a rhino-saurus.~Primus, Harold of the Rocks
by PBR me ASAP! on Dec 19, 2010 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Hey...Rex Grossman sucks!
Who knew?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Yea.
This is pathetic.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Roflcopter.
Nice pass there.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
I was hoping as wide open as Manningham was, that was gonna be OPI or something
but no, Patterson just sucks.
Can you make the realistic argument
that the Orioles are the 3rd best team in the AL East headed into this season?
Don't think so.
Tampa is still better than people think.
by LoveForTheGame13 on Dec 19, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
yeah...
but 1 or 2 injuries and they’re in big trouble.the thing is, in previous years, they used to have 4 or 5 good quality players to supplement Longoria. in 2009, for instance, they had 7 players who contributed more than 3 WAR (Shields, Garza, Niemann, Longoria, Crawford, Zobrist, and Bartlett), and Pena was close at 2.8 WAR. next season? you can confidently expect that from Longoria, Price, and Zobrist, and probably Upton too. but then they’re relying on the other wins to come from young guys like Joyce, Brignac, Hellickson, Jennings, as well as guys who had bad seasons last year, especially Shields. I predicted they would still be an 85-90 win team, but all it takes is a couple of injuries to the star players, a couple of Riemold-like performances from the young guys, and they could end up with a losing record.
I can make a realistic argument the Orioles are the 5th best team in the division if interested.
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
Dear Cam,
This is what happens when you give the ball to Ray Rice early.
Sincerely,
Everyone who has watched a Ravens game this year.
by kba26 on Dec 19, 2010 2:02 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Eagles were straight dirty on that play.
damn
Bring back Luis Matos.
by WestcoastO'sFan on Dec 19, 2010 2:19 PM EST reply actions
What happened?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Is Sexy Rexy failing as gloriously as I'm hoping?
"One way to lower a flag to half-mast is just to lower the flag. There's another way, though. You can raise the pole to like twice its original height." - Infinite Jest
by Eat More Esskay on Dec 19, 2010 2:26 PM EST reply actions
Actually, he's having a decent game.
With, naturally, some ill-advised throws. But some beauts as well.
I don’t get all the Rexy hate, I really don’t.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
My hate stems from the fact that Rex does not give the Skins the best chance to win.
McNabb does. Benching McNabb against the Cowboys is a slap in the face to Redskins fans. If Shanahan wanted to throw in the towel he should have waited until next week.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
how do you KNOW he doesn't give them the best chance to win?
Grossman’s 21-14 as a starter and led his team to a Super Bowl. He hasn’t been a regular starter in four years. He obviously has tremendous talent, and his major undoing has been his horrible decision-making process. Talent can’t be coached, but decision-making can.
Shanahan says exactly what I said earlier this week: McNabb is a known quantity, and Grossman is not. They have three games left to see what they’ve got in Grossman. They know what they’ve got in McNabb. And Grossman clearly knows the offense far better than McNabb.
Winning meaningless games should be secondary to evaluating your team for next year.
You know what Grossman has already done four times today that McNabb is incapable of doing? Led his receivers in a short pass. The ball isn’t just going to them, it’s going to them in stride. That’s a critical part of the WCO that McNabb was never able to do.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Rex Grossman did NOT lead that team to a Super Bowl
The defense led them to a Super Bowl. He was average at best all year and was even worse in the final game.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
dude, he was the starting quarterback all year on a super bowl team
call it what you want. he threw for over 3000 yards. he obviously turned the ball over too much, but maybe he’s grown up since then. that’s what they’re trying to find out.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
That's true. Defense carried that Bears team. Not Grossman.
I’d also like to add that I believe that winning should never be secondary. The fans don’t pay $80 a ticket to watch a team “evaluate their talent”. That is what preseason is for. Besides that, the Shanahans should already know what they have in Grossman. He has started before and if they’ve watched any game video they know what he brings to the table.
I’d also like to add that I never liked the McNabb trade and I wanted him to be benched early in the season. I would really love to see this team dump all of the excess fat and start rebuilding around a few of the quality pieces that they have (Orakpo, Trent Williams, etc.).
I really don’t have much faith left in this organization. The Orioles have been run better over the last 13 years then the Redskins have.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
No, winning Super Bowls should never be secondary.
If i were a Redskins fan, i’d much rather them do what they need to not be an embarrassment next year, even if it means reducing their chances at winning a specific game in a lost season.
I agree with everything in your last two paragraphs!
But I don’t agree that McNabb necessarily gives the Skins the best chance to win. And I also don’t agree that a coach shouldn’t use meaningless games to evaluate talent. It’s how you find out who IS the fat.
Fans who pay $80 a ticket after the past decade are delusional.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
This. They went to the SB despite Rex Grossman, not because of him.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
blah blah blah blah respect for mcnabb blah blah blah yawwwwnnnnn
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
If any of Washington's quarterbacks could hit Anthony Armstrong in stride
they would win a lot more games. I think that is at least the 5th time that AA has beaten everyone deep and had the ball underthrown this season.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 2:57 PM EST reply actions
yes, but at least the underneath routes are being hit in stride
Moss x 2, Sellers, etc.
It’s a little harder to hit someone in stride on a 60-yard pass. But yeah, it’d be nice to see.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I'll give you that.
It has been nice to see some nice throws underneath. Also, in typical Redskins fan fashion, I will hail Sexy Rexy as the savior if he leads a comeback in this game. I’m only partially kidding.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
One possession game early in the 4th
I have no reason to think McNabb would have been netter at this point.
If we had ANY DEFENSE OR SPECIAL TEAMS WHATSOEVER, this would be a competitive game.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
The 1st quarter fucking lost the game for us.
Again.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not going to dispute that is was horrific.
But this game really isn’t over by a long shot.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Yea, that came out wrong.
I meant to say that if they lose it will be because of the first quarter, again.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
It's not "resiliency". It's "resilience".
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Irregardless
It has the same affect.
3….2…..1…..
:>
by NSOsFan on Dec 19, 2010 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
First punt today?
Ugh.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:31 PM EST reply actions
On a side note
if Washington is actually able to pull this out and the rest of the early games stay as-is, it is almost a guarantee that Stacey or I win the week.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:33 PM EST reply actions
the pick 'em is ALL OVER THE PLACE this week
crazy
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Yea its nuts
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I was tied for last coming into this week (that's what I get for not submitting picks a few weeks)
So I would at least like to win one week to retain some dignity.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Yea...I'm toast
But I was already done after last week
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
love the fact that they're running the ball in the 4th.
finally.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Although NO just tied it....
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
love to see a boot here
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I just creamed my pants.
TMI? Don’t care.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:39 PM EST reply actions
no, no play action
run perimeter!
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
LOL
OKAY THAT’LL DO!!!
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I'll take it.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
SEXY REXY IS THE SAVIOR!!!
(see I told you zk)
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:40 PM EST reply actions
ahahahaha
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
wow. that's tough to do.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Wowzers.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Eh
Cincy is falling apart again (per usual), TB can easily win their game, and MIA is in striking distance.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
whatchoo talkin bout willis?
you have both of those teams
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
yeah, but at least you'll have more than one point. :)
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
This.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Oh and fuck Arizona.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
WTF is Carolina doing winning that game?
Do they not want the #1 pick? Lucky for them Cinncy won as well, so they are still in line for #1 overall.
Now, Harold, he's a friendly guy. He rambles on and on. He'll talk the balls off a rhino-saurus.~Primus, Harold of the Rocks
by PBR me ASAP! on Dec 19, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
True 'dat.
Now, Harold, he's a friendly guy. He rambles on and on. He'll talk the balls off a rhino-saurus.~Primus, Harold of the Rocks
by PBR me ASAP! on Dec 19, 2010 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
might I add
fuck you, cleveland.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
And St. Louis
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
It's hard to believe that Cincy was one of the better teams in the AFC last year.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
I jizzed. in. my. pants.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
...
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
That's exactly what it looked like.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Good things happen when #47 gets the ball thrown his way.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:48 PM EST reply actions
COOOOOOOOOOOOOLEY
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
OMG Santana, kill me
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
fucking skins
RUN THE GODDAMNED BALL
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I don't care if they don't run.
As long as every pass goes to Cooley.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Fuck you Santana Moss.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:50 PM EST reply actions
fuck you, offensive line
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
And now Dallas wins with a field goal.
Way to fucking go Santana Moss.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:52 PM EST reply actions
I just want to win the pick em pool one fucking time.
Is that too much to ask?
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Me too man
I’ve been up in the top 5 overall since the beginning and I still haven’t won a week. Peace out, 50 bucks. It was nice knowing you.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
i just noticed
all the late games and MNF are near-unanimous.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I need NO to win fo sho
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Yea.
One person picked the Jets (Stacey) and one person picked Minnesota (Wieters Wieners). The rest is unanimous.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
J-E-T-S
I just want to win one week, is that too much to ask? Apparently it is. Thanks for nothing, Giants.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
by Stacey on Dec 19, 2010 7:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If Washington would have won
it would have been between you and I. Fucking assholes.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Of course that was before the Giants imploded.
Might have been a few more tied with us that way.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
could I *possibly* have had a worse week?
it’s hard to imagine
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
You could be a Giants fan who happens to also volunteer with an animal rescue
who had to watch the Vick-led Eagles beat his team after the most insane choke job this side of 2007, who also lost in the semi final in fantasy after putting up more points than anyone else during the season, and also has a gf from N.O. who watched her team get run all over and bitched accordingly to extremely deaf, unsympathetic ears.
Sorry, i’m in a piss poor mood tonight. I know you revel in the Giants loss, but Vick? It makes me sick. Literally.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I hate the Giants
and I wanted them to win so bad today. Some things make you cheer for the team you can’t stand.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
you know, excellent point
i really can’t stand eli; he makes my blood boil, and i want his career to be over tomorrow.
but vick is far, far worse. i will certainly be on the “anyone but the eagles” train for this playoff season.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
need a big sack here.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Good stop.
They almost fucking let him get the first.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 3:59 PM EST reply actions
lol Jacksonville.
on side kick FAIL!
Now, Harold, he's a friendly guy. He rambles on and on. He'll talk the balls off a rhino-saurus.~Primus, Harold of the Rocks
Oh, and fuck the Colts
Now, Harold, he's a friendly guy. He rambles on and on. He'll talk the balls off a rhino-saurus.~Primus, Harold of the Rocks
by PBR me ASAP! on Dec 19, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
This is where Brandon Banks takes it to the house but it gets called back for
an illegal block in the back.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 4:02 PM EST reply actions
It will all come down to Gano.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
So you're saying that it's over?
lol.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yea...so much for that shit
Turns out, it all comes down to fucking Grossman
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Did they have to show that replay?
Kill me.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 4:04 PM EST reply actions
what the fuck with passes in the flat?
we need to take shots downfield, no matter how improbable
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Mother fucker.
Why give me hope you fucking assholes?
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 4:07 PM EST reply actions
This could be Camden Chat's headline for Opening Day!
Now, Harold, he's a friendly guy. He rambles on and on. He'll talk the balls off a rhino-saurus.~Primus, Harold of the Rocks
by PBR me ASAP! on Dec 19, 2010 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
wha tthe fuck, dude?
that turnover doesn’t count. it’s a fucking hail mary.
idiot announcers.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
It counts because it wasn't that deep of a throw
and the receiver had his man beat. By a lot.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 4:08 PM EST up reply actions
sorry, but
any downfield play with 30 seconds or less remaining is a freebie. you HAVE to take a shot, and hope for a call or something.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Yea but that was a one on one.
I’d like to see a replay, but it looked like a decent throw would have gone for six.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
i just watched it
the receiver was covered deep by the safety. he ran the out pattern, and the ball was going right to him. it’s obvious rex never saw the corner.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Ok.
I guess I could have rewound.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
Once WW accidentally picked SF,
i thought i had a good chance to move closer to the top of the standings this week. so much for that.
Ex. Cre. Ment.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
Is that Latin? What does it translate to?
Something like ‘Rexy plays like poo’?
Now, Harold, he's a friendly guy. He rambles on and on. He'll talk the balls off a rhino-saurus.~Primus, Harold of the Rocks
by PBR me ASAP! on Dec 19, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
most points the redskins have scored all year.
say what you will, but he certainly did no worse than mcnabb.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Or try our new lime version, Ex. Cre. Menthe.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
Fuck...NO lost which means me pick 'em season is essentially over
Def can’t win the week
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
ahahahaha
i hate the eagles, but that was an EPIC giants fail.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
and desean jackson is a classless punk.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
This.
Oh and Eli sucks.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Wait...what'd he do this time?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
That shit is going to bite him in the ass
Again….
Although, was the clock already at 0 before he did it?
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
While I agree that he is classless.
He was only trying to run out the clock on that play. He probably didn’t know that it had already expired.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 4:24 PM EST up reply actions
I would agree if it were any other player
But he has a little bit of a history of doing it to show up the other team. And by “little bit” I mean a huge history.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 19, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
Totally agree about Jackson
but Coughlin could have saved it for the locker room.
D-Jax
if people hate what he does, STOP HIM FROM SCORING!!! How is providing the fans entertainment classless, especially when he was trying to run out the clock? btw – in his presser he said he didn’t know how long was left so he just wanted to make sure. Fail by the g-nats, win for the birds.
That's the dumbest thing I think I've ever heard.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno
I hate the guy and his antics, but running along the sideline to make sure there is no time left makes plenty of sense to me. The Giants blew this one. I don’t care what Jackson did.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Nah...I was just responding to the "stop him from scoring" bullshit
He’s a good player, but being good doesn’t mean you have to be an idiot.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, I agree
Although I won’t mind if it costs him and his team a few more scores by the time all is said and done (like it did in his rookie year).
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
how is running out the clock
being an idiot? he ran along the goal line and then went in. at what point did he act classless or like an idiot? he was playing smart. and the only BS is that people hate becasue he scores for a team that they don’t root for. bah humbug to that. As far as I am concerned, I would have payed to watch him in Dal when he fell backward and yesterday when he ran along the goal line and in (if that is what you feel is idiotic and classless). That shit puts fans in the stands.
Because he wasn't really doing it to run out the clock
As he said in his press conference, he tries to always do something unusual when he scores.
Also, the NFC East doesn’t have issues putting fans in the stands. And I don’t think what Jackson does really puts fans in the stands, despite what he said in his press conference. I doubt there is single person who bought a ticket off of StubHub in the hopes that DeSean Jackson would do a really impressive trick before scoring.
Also, as much as people may “hate” him because he scores for a team they don’t root for, I think people are even more likely to defend him because he scores for a team he does root for.
by BirdFanInPhilly on Dec 20, 2010 8:12 AM EST up reply actions
No.....
he said he likes to do stuff AND he also said he wanted to make sure he ran out the clock.
Again -
I would have payed to watch him
Yes, I defend him because he plays for the team I root for. I am not asking you to root for him I am just saying that it is part of being fans. you root for your team and hate the players that are not on your team.
The clock hit zeros when he was at the 20, but it also looked like he was looking around for a clock.
If that’s the case, I don’t mind, though the angle looked like there was a Giant who had kind of given up on the play but then may have had a shot at him before he crossed the goal line.
In general, though, I wouldn’t mind if he cut back the showboating a little.
That's how they started against Washington.
That offense is electric.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 19, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
If I get a Chicago win, i actually manage to salvage the week and drop only 2 games to WW
Still be 5 games back, but better than the 8 it looked like 15 minutes ago
I'm done
I kinda knew that last week anyways, but I had a chance this week if NYG and NO had won. Fuck Houston and St. Louis too. Killin’ me.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
You're only one game behind me,
and still definitely within striking distance of 2nd. At the very least you could still get your $50 back.
Yea...that's the plan
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Dec 19, 2010 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
I left at halftime, now this Giants game has me fucking pissed.
Sure, TB lost, and they will beat GB and WAS, but fuck man, they had that game, I need something to take my mind off that shit.
Bring back Luis Matos.
by WestcoastO'sFan on Dec 19, 2010 5:02 PM EST reply actions
Sooo...
…I’m racking my brain trying to figure who I should want to win this Pittsburgh-Jets game…from a Ravens fan perspective. If the Steelers lose, we’ll be tied, but they’ll still have a better divisional record no matter what – assuming we both win out – so they would still take the division. If the Jets lose they’ll drop to a game behind us in the Wild Card stakes. So what’s the better scenario for Baltimore? Or does this even matter?
Better that the Jets win i think
Theres still an outside shot at the division title (and a bye), and theres no real difference between the two wildcard spots since the other divisions are so close that its impossible to predict who you would play in the first round and seeding would only otherwise be relevant if both wild cards made it to the AFC Championship game.
what he said
besides, we own the tiebreaker over the jets, so if we win out we’re guaranteed the top WC anyway.
anyone else wondering if, now that they lost out on both cliff lee and zach greinke, MFY will now try to overwhelm the M’s for Felix Hernandez? they’re a money-pinching rebuilding team with the best pitcher in the AL. it’d make sense.
I can't imagine the Mariners would deal Felix
Felix is young and under contract for 5 more years (I think it’s 5, it might be 4). The Mariners do have a fair amount of young talent as well, Smoak, Ackley, Pineda to pair along with Felix, Gutierrez and Ichiro. Plus in the AL West, there really isn’t any really good team. The Mariners will likely finish in last in 2011, though they aren’t too far off in 2012.
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
And the Mariners aren't exactly penny pinching
they had a middle of the league salary last year, and I believe they have been much higher in recent years.
So, any good games today????
:)
Looks like my wife picked a great day to meet her sister in DC for a museum visit. At least the Ravens won when I couldn’t watch them.
"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan
A Ravens fan may disagree
But the Pit-NYJ game was rather disappointing. If I may borrow -
If Rex Ryan were to invade hell I would give the devil himself a favourable recommendation.
"Fairy tales start 'once upon a time...'. Fishing stories start 'now this ain't no bullshit...'."
- Cap'n Phil Harris
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