More Type A Relievers? What are the Orioles thinking?
by Stacey on Dec 3, 2010 9:54 PM EST
in News & Rumors
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PrintKnubles and Bits posted this blurb from Jeff Zrebiec in today's Bird Droppings, but I think it merits additional attention:
The Orioles are also talking to the representatives of several other free agent relievers and have at least one offer out, and have talked contract parameters with several others. The list of free agent relievers includes Grant Balfour, Matt Guerrier, Jesse Crain, Scott Downs, Brian Fuentes and Kerry Wood.
Of the relievers listed in the quote, Grant Balfour and Scott Downs are type A free agents who were offered arbitration by their former teams, which means that if they are given a contract by the Orioles, it will be the second consecutive year that the Orioles lose their second round draft pick for a pitcher. A relief pitcher. It would be Mike Gonzalez all over again.
It's been discussed both here and elsewhere that relievers are volatile and usually the same value can be found elsewhere for much cheaper. For every Mike Gonzalez there is a Will Ohman who can be signed for a fraction of the price and without losing a draft pick.
I'd really hoped that the Orioles would have learned from the Mike Gonzalez mistake, but based on the reports we're hearing that doesn't appear to be the case. It's just so frustrating.
And as Andrew_G asked in Bird Droppings, why exactly is the bullpen such a focus anyway? The Orioles already have in their inventory Jason Berken, David Hernandez, Jim Johnson, Mike Gonzalez, Troy Patton, Kam Mickolio, Rick VandenHurk, and more. And meanwhile, they don't have a first baseman, shortstop, or third baseman. They're misguidedly offering Victor Martinez $48M and insulting offering Adam Dunn $40M, all the while contacting the agents of type A relievers?
Won't someone think of the children?
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seriously...
STOP THE INSANITY!
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
Can't hurt to add another arm as insurance
but seriously….no type A….and those type A guys listed aren’t even that good. I don’t see how any reliever can be classified a type A unless it’s a dominant, prime of his career type closer
"You know how I get the safety? No safety so I went to hit Ray, and I lost...BAD" Chad Johnson on trying to block the great #52
I never knew exactly how that worked
but that’s ridiculous. So a top 20% reliever is worth as much as a top 20% first baseman? That needs to be restructured.
"You know how I get the safety? No safety so I went to hit Ray, and I lost...BAD" Chad Johnson on trying to block the great #52
The whole concept needs to go away.
Draft picks for free agents is fucking stupid.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 3, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
especially when everybody else in our division can take advantage of it except for the Orioles
Having said that, I’d be ok with draft pick comp for starting pitchers and position players. But no more Type B compensation.
Librarians are hiding something
Well it looks like a good idea from a glance, but it really isn't.
The draft pick compensation is helpful to the small market teams that can’t afford to keep their talent in town when they demand big bucks. That is all good, but the problem lies in the fact that it makes those same teams not want to bring in type A guys when they can afford to, because those teams rely on their young draft picks year in and year out and don’t want to lose the high picks.
I would prefer that they do away with type A and B and just have one group of top tier guys and have the same guidelines (decline arbitration), but the signing team doesn’t lose a pick. The team that loses the player would get a sandwich pick like for a type B guy.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 3, 2010 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
Like the NFL
MLB could take many, many lessons from the NFL
"You know how I get the safety? No safety so I went to hit Ray, and I lost...BAD" Chad Johnson on trying to block the great #52
Type A relievers
If the Orioles sign a Type A reliever, I don’t even know. The sad thing is that this is something the Orioles would do because Type A hitters and Type A starters obviously have no interest in signing in Baltimore for the minimum wage. In addition to Gonzalez, you can throw in Danys Baez and Jamie Walker.
I really have no idea why AM is even focusing on the bullpen. It’s something dysfunctional organizations do year after year.
Librarians are hiding something
to be completely honest though
if he wanted to bring in Kerry Wood I would be compelled to be happy. I like Kerry Wood a lot.
Some food for thought:
The Orioles have 8 guys in their inventory as Stacey mentioned (she forgot Simon), and also a couple of potential spare pieces in the minor league system, but they used 17 relievers in 2010 total. The Rays, who were the best team in baseball with the bullpen as a strength used 12 relievers, and that was headed by an offseason acquisition in Rafael Soriano (though he was not a type A free agent, which has to be the dumbest kind of signing still happening).
The Orioles, of course, can afford to bring in a reliever – but its all a matter of who and primarily for how long. The last thing we need is to be betting on the stability of 2013 Grant Balfour.
I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.
I didn't forget Simon
I just hate him.
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
by Stacey on Dec 4, 2010 6:44 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
This is worthy a rec.
Igpay Atinlay
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Dec 4, 2010 8:03 AM EST up reply actions
Ok
Well I keep reading Boston is pushing for a-Gonzo. If the Padres are going to sell now the Os need to jump. Take some relief pitching let some picks go if that’s the plan. Get Wiggy back to platoon and let him and Bell rotate 3B if they can get Beltre. Then get one pitcher. Beltre might be out but I don’t know about trading Tillman for Reynolds either. Give them Hernandez and a diff prospect maybe. That thins out pitching depth in the farm though. If you can do it all pull the trigger now
Another rumor
David Hernandez for Mark Reynolds?
I am game for that, for sure.
Librarians are hiding something
That would be better than Tillman
as long as we don’t sign one of these type A relievers to replace him.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 3, 2010 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
no doubt
Hernandez offers us little at this point anyway
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 3, 2010 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
Chris Tillman’s name has been mentioned in connection with the Mark Reynolds trade rumors, tweets Sports Illustrated’s Jon Heyman. Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic thinks the D’Backs “seem to like” David Hernandez more, but Hernandez would be just one piece of what’s likely to be a pitcher-centric package (Twitter links).
If Mark Reynolds requires much of a ‘package’ beyond Hernandez then I don’t really think he is worth it. Obviously another player or maybe even two, but it better not be anywhere near top prospects.
If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.
by Knubles and Bits on Dec 3, 2010 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
I'd give 'em Bell & Hernandez.
As lost as he appeared, Bell might still turn out, but Reynolds is averaging 35HR + 100RBI thru his first 4 ML seasons. He’s only going to be 27 this year. Open lineup, insert thumper.
From the Land of Pleasant Living...
wow
walked right into that one
Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.
by danielreese05 on Dec 3, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
I AGREE WITH GETTING MORE TOP NOTCH RELIEVERS
its not like we’re going to be scoring runs because hitters dont want to come here so it only makes sense…God we suck. Now I know how hopeless Cavalier fans, Los Angeles football fans and French chiropractors feel…
If you didnt understand the latter, it’s because French people are spineless.
"On my tombstone just write, 'The sorest loser that ever lived.'"
Earl Weaver
Oh, it only makes sense.
I’m sold. We should totally forfeit our draft picks for relievers.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Toronto and TB
haven’t improved at all BOS and NY havnt done anything either. The right 3 moves put us there that’s it
Get
AG and maybe trade for Reynolds or just sign Wiggy. Get a reviler or 2 and a SP
Not drunk
off the Koolaide but with what this team showed the last 2months against teams playing for something and put up the record and era this team did under Buck why not thing some FAs and moves might be made possible and with all the pieces we can actually tradeTillman, Hernandez, Reimold and some AA guys we could offer for AG and if we cant sign Beltre (who most likely wont) get Reynolds also
Won't someone think of the children?
Speaking of which, fun news around the neighborhood, per MLBTR:
Just was told #Padres-#RedSox deal would only involve Adrian Gonzalez and is “close.” No Heath Bell. #MLB
And for some funny news, the national nightmare may appear to be over concerning the Captain:
The reported deal would pay Jeter “in the neighborhood of $19MM annually” over three years, and there could be a fourth year that vests if Jeter meets certain “reachable parameters.”
Well, I get to hate Derek Jeter for the next 4 years, so there’s that. A bummer about Adrian Gonzalez, but that was so obvious, I think Nostradamus may have actually specifically mentioned it.
And to the thread:
Odds the Orioles have a second round pick in June? 20%?
Librarians are hiding something
Why?
Why do we want somebody else’s Type A relief pitcher when we don’t even want our own (Koji)?
Koji's a Type B
and it’s not that we don’t want him. it’s that arbitration almost always (I’m talking, like, 99% of the time) results in a raise, and there doesn’t seem to be much of a market for Uehara to begin with. don’t forget, we originally signed him for starter money…
I think there's an aspect of this that makes sense
first of all, it’s entirely possible to sign a Type A free agent, have him play for one or two years, and then get draft pick compensation for him when he leaves. their type A status doesn’t suddenly disappear once you sign them. sometimes their status changes from B to A (eg. Beltre) or the other way around (eg. Kevin Gregg) but there’s not a big difference in our case – the draft pick we’d gain even for a type B free agent is higher (between the first and second rounds) than the pick we would lose for a type A (in the 2nd round).
in fact, if you look at the Elias rankings for last season, Mike Gonzalez’s score of 77.65 would make him a solid type A free agent right now – and he doesn’t exactly have to be amazing to be at least a type B free agent for next season.
there is definitely a difference in value because a draft pick right now is worth more than a draft pick in 1 or 2 years. but it’s not a huge difference, and as I said, sometimes the pick you end up getting is actually higher than the one you give up.
even ignoring this issue, though, what’s the problem with talking to agents and discussing contracts? it’s not unheard of for a type A free agent to remain unsigned until like February or March, at which point they’ll be desperate and accept a lesser contract. the biggest example is Juan Cruz a few years ago, who had to settle for a 2 year / $5.5 deal in March due to his type A status.
So more relievers
And no talk of filling the 5th hole in the rotation? Anybody else get the sense we’ll be seeing El Mentor in Balto up until 07/31?
"They're throwing bottles at your house...Come one, let's go break their arms." - Henry Fool
by Fahrenheit 451 on Dec 4, 2010 9:07 AM EST via mobile reply actions
We have a rotation
Mats, Guts, Arrieta, Bergensen, and Britton/Tillman.
We could bring in an older guy, but why?
Hey look, mister - we serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast, and we don't need any characters around to give the joint "atmosphere".
It's the Britton/Tillman part that concerns me
Tillman is still question mark and Britton’s only going to go so many innings before shut down. I’d hope they have a non-Millwood contingency plan.
"They're throwing bottles at your house...Come one, let's go break their arms." - Henry Fool
by Fahrenheit 451 on Dec 4, 2010 12:09 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
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