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J.J. Hardy, Mark Reynolds, and the Orioles off-season shopping list

Going into the off-season it was clear the Orioles had a pretty extensive list of needs and quite a bit of money to find what they needed. On the list:

  • First Baseman (Garrett Atkins experiment: FAIL)
  • Shortstop (Although we will miss Cesar Izturis and his .545 OPS)
  • Third Baseman (Josh Bell: Not ready for prime time)
  • Relief Pitching (which...whatever. They say they need it)
  • Cliff Lee

They're still looking for a first baseman and Cliff Lee won't sign with the Orioles for another week or so (for any newbies reading, yes this is snark), but in the last week the Orioles have made some moves to improve the on-field team in 2011.

Star-divide

Third Base: You can argue against the long term benefits of trading David Hernandez and Kam Mickolio for Mark Reynolds, and you'd have a point (although I'd argue the value the Orioles would get out of Hernandez and Mickolio would be negligible at best). But there is no denying that this makes the Orioles better in 2011. The 2010 third basemen for the O's had an OBP of .290, a BB% of 3.1 and an ISO of .098. They hit a combined 12 HR. In short, they were vomit worthy. In 2010 Mark Reynolds had an OBP of .320, a BB% of 13.9 and an ISO of .234. He hit 32 HR. And while the O's 3B turned in a 0.0 WAR (and check the link to see which individual 3B was highest), Reynolds racked up a respectable 2.4 WAR.

Relief Pitching: Andy MacPhail once again proved that he knows more than us by not offering Koji Uehara arbitration. Koji made $5M for the O's in 2010 and if the Orioles had offered him arbitration and he'd accepted, we'd be looking at Koji making at least $6M in 2011. By not going that route, MacPhail was able to re-sign Koji to a one year, $3M year with incentives and a vesting option for 2012 based on how many games he finishes. This is great for the Orioles. Not only are they saving money, but if Koji has injury issues in 2011 they won't be on the hook for 2012.

The Orioles have also reportedly offered a two year contract to Kevin Gregg, which I'm not crazy about. But I've seen worse (I'm looking at you, Danys Baez). Despite the earlier scare of the Orioles reportedly being interested in several Type A relievers, there hasn't been anything of note in that department lately.

Shortstop: It is expected to be announced at noon that the Orioles have acquired J.J. Hardy from the Minnesota Twins in return for minor league relief pitchers Jim Hoey and Brett Jacobson. Again, feel free to argue the long term benefits given that Hardy is a free agent after 2011, but don't argue that it's not an upgrade over Cesar Izturis. Izturis was abysmal last year and J.J. Hardy had a higher OPS than Derek Jeter (which isn't saying much, but I still enjoy saying it). In 2010, Orioles' shortstops hit .239/.285/.284 and put up a combined WAR of -0.7. Hardy hit .263/.320/.394 and had a WAR of 2.4. Hardy has twice hit more than 20 HR in a season (although I wouldn't go expecting that from him next year) and he's still relatively young at 28. And given what the team gave up for him, it's practically a steal.

It looks like the only thing left on the Orioles off-season shopping list is a first baseman. Word on the street is that the Orioles are meeting with Adam LaRoche's agent and could make an offer today. That'd be another boost from last year where the Orioles were completely miserable in 2010. The team has also shown some interest in another starting pitcher, but no valid names (Cliff Lee) have been mentioned of late.

In a vacuum, these moves look great. They're definitely an improvement over the 2010 cast of characters and it'll hopefully make the 2011 season more fun to watch. But all it takes to be discouraged is a glance at what the Red Sox have done. Reyolds and Hardy sound great until you compare them to Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford. It's been said before but any meaningful improvement by this team will come from the young core of pitchers as well as Matt Wieters, Adam Jones, and whoever ends up playing left field. And the moves made this year do not address the Orioles' health beyond 2011 (although Reynolds belongs to the O's in 2012 and 2013 if they want him), and as our friend James F said to me via email when I tried to talk up J.J. Hardy, "Say it with me: we are not a contender and there are no awards for fourth place."

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Whether this off season is successful or not depends on what happens at 1B

Hardy is ok, have to see if he can keep the offense going and not relapse into 2008 form. Reynolds is an improvment.

However, neither of these guys moves the needle a whole lot from the 65 – 70 win category. That has to be done at first base. LaRouche seems to be the guy out there that’s attracting attention. It would be an upgrade from the committee that was there last year. How much does it move the needle though? I think it helps a bit. How much will not be known until he gets the feel for a new leagues pitching. That’s my biggest concern. His defense looks good on paper at least.

Alec: Chris, did you really buy a $1400 toilet?
Chris: Yeah, it's great. It's Japanese and has those little warm water jets that clean the undercarriage.
Eric: Chris, it's a toilet, you shit in it.

by pfhokie on Dec 9, 2010 11:29 AM EST reply actions  

This offseason will be succesful

based on whether or not we can acquire a few pieces to not be embarrassing next year (check) without shooting ourselves in the foot by either taking on a burdensome contract or giving up young talent that we’ll need later (so far, so good).

At this point, I consider the hole at first to be a minor inconvenience compared to the other moves they’ve made. Filling it with LaRoche would be nice, but I’m just as happy letting Luke handle it for next season and have Reimold DHing. The last thing i want to see them do is feel like the NEED to make a move at 1st and overpay either in terms of a contract or trade pieces.

by kba26 on Dec 9, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree. However, we can't control the market price any more. And Scott at first is a bit scary.

We don’t know if Reimold is able to bounce back from whatever happened to him last year. Did the pitchers figure him out? Whatever happened, he didn’t adjust well so you have to hang a ? over him. Scott at first just scares me. Love his bat but it would be better overall to have a solid glove at first especially with two new infielders.

But in the end, you are right about the contract. If they can line up Laroche for two years at decent money, that would be fine.

Alec: Chris, did you really buy a $1400 toilet?
Chris: Yeah, it's great. It's Japanese and has those little warm water jets that clean the undercarriage.
Eric: Chris, it's a toilet, you shit in it.

by pfhokie on Dec 9, 2010 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Whether or not they are successful next season will depend far more (as Stacey pointed out) ..

… on how well the young Birds perform. Weiters and Jones in particular have to live up to expectations, as do at least a couple of the young starters. Markakis needs to be his steady self and a healthy, productive Brian Roberts will certainly be a plus.

There was never any chance of getting the sort of difference making non-pitching player this off season, primarily because that guy wasn’t out there to begin with. Adding Reynolds and Hardy seem like reasonable moves that ought to pay dividends IF the home grown guys come through.

Commenting on allegations on the use of torture against terrorost suspects: "If hooking up one raghead terrorist prisoner's testicles to a car battery to get the truth out of the lying little camel shagger will save just one Canadian life, then I have only three things to say:

Red is positive, black is negative, and make sure his nuts are wet"

Don Cherry

by timg56 on Dec 9, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope the new staff can have

a positive impact on these young guys…it’d be great to see some progress.

by Tetris on Dec 9, 2010 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

suggestions

1.Why not give the money for prince fielder, with scott at dh

2. then trade for grienke, even at the cost of tillman

- bosox got crawford and gonzalez
- yanks have the usual with lee looking to go there

Players are avalible and everyone else are making moves. Lets grab these guys and contend in 2011

wieters
fielder
roberts
hardy
reynolds
pie
jones
markakis
riemolds

grienke
guthrie
matusz
arrieta
bergenson

by mrt2515 on Dec 9, 2010 12:15 PM EST reply actions  

How are you trading for Greinke and Fielder

while keeping Jones, Matusz, Arrieta and Wieters all on the team?

by kba26 on Dec 9, 2010 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

why try and contend in 2011 and mortgage the future

Wait a year, sign Fielder since he sounds intent on hitting FA anyways, and then we should be in business.

"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law

by Reddrummer9187 on Dec 9, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know how you are making the trades for Fielder and Grienke without losing your young core players

You are going to have to deal some of your pitchers for these guys. You would have to deal most of the young pitchers and prospects to get both these guys.

Alec: Chris, did you really buy a $1400 toilet?
Chris: Yeah, it's great. It's Japanese and has those little warm water jets that clean the undercarriage.
Eric: Chris, it's a toilet, you shit in it.

by pfhokie on Dec 9, 2010 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

A-Gone to boston

While i agree with Reddrummer in “why try and contend in 2011 and mortgage the future” The Sox were able to get A-Gone for 3 or 4 prospects no major league talent…Hes a better player then Fielder so the same package should be able to land him if we really wanted to go down that road

by Sno Alchemist on Dec 9, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

We don't have nearly the minor league depth to trade from that Boston does

A trade for Fielder would likely totally gut what little there is right now.

by kba26 on Dec 9, 2010 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Trade for prospects

I would trade Luke to a power starved team for a prospect or two then turn around and use them with one or 2 of ours and trade for Prince ( not that i want to ) Luke easily replaced with a Free agent ie … Matsui, Ordonez

by Sno Alchemist on Dec 9, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, but the problem is we ARE a power-starved team

boston can trade prospects because they’re blocked by major league talent. We still need them to fill holes on the major league club.

by kba26 on Dec 9, 2010 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Um.....we ARE that power-starved team

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Dec 9, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

ummmm

ummm if we added Fielder along with Reynolds plus a free agent slugger to DH…how would we be a power starved team?!

by Sno Alchemist on Dec 9, 2010 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

You make it sound so easy!

We didn’t we all think of that?? Who is this mystery “free agent slugger to DH” that we’ve all overlooked?

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Dec 9, 2010 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

well if u must Know

Manny Ramirez , Magglio Ordonez , Jim Thome , Vlad to name a few…Now to prevent you from trying to berate me, they would essentially be replacing Luke (27HR 72RBI) on a 1 year contract

by Sno Alchemist on Dec 9, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Also

Let it be Known im not for the the team getting Prince….Just playing Devils advocate

by Sno Alchemist on Dec 9, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

not Ordonez

but Vlad I could certainly live with. problem is he strikes out a LOT which isn’t really what we need right now with Jones and Reynolds in the lineup.

Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.

by danielreese05 on Dec 9, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

But to play DA again , the Rays finished with the best record in the AL and Pena and Upton finished 2nd and 3rd in the league in K’s

by Sno Alchemist on Dec 9, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

not the K's really matter

but, just a point of fact, Vlad does NOT strike out a lot. Or even really a little…He strikes out less than almost any power hitter of the past two decades. he has never struck out more than 88 times in a year.

by ItsBenFeldman on Dec 9, 2010 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

It makes sense that we would get him to offset the 200k’s Marks bringing..if u wanted to look at it that way

by Sno Alchemist on Dec 9, 2010 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea...Manny Ramirez sounds like a great choice?

Are you being serious? Vladdy is the only person on that list I would even start to consider.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Dec 9, 2010 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I think these are good moves

1) Most of the players we are giving up are not likely to become all-stars or truly succeed with the Orioles club. David Hernadez may very well be able to hack it in the national league as a starter, certainly as a set-up man or possible closer. Basically we’re not giving up a ton of talent in either trade. None of these player’s contracts are huge or long so we’re basically picking up players for a below-market rate

2) We’ve seen that most free agents are not willing to sign with us even if we pay a slight premium. We’re basically the Pirates or the Royals in terms of how attractive the team is to sign with. Except at least those teams don’t have to go toe to toe with the Red Sox or Yankees so they at least get players who want rebound years. The only way to become attractive is to become competitive and start winning.

Hardy is likely to at least be a type B free agent, possibly a type A free agent. So even though we are giving up some talent we are likely to get at least one pick back. We are also in a position to sign him long-term or trade him if the market is right. Reynolds is similar in that barring injury he will bring back draft picks or prospects.

These are all positions that we need players for. Coming into this we had only one average player in the infield: Roberts. Both players we have traded for are at least average players. If we end up signing a decent first-baseman we could well end up winning 8-10 more games pretty easily. To fill these positions on the free agent market would likely have cost some money or the players would have been so bad that we would have needed to release them.

Wigglypuff uses Walk Off. Papelbon faints. -Jakattak88

by OsandRoyals on Dec 9, 2010 12:31 PM EST reply actions  

I wonder if AZ will give DH a shot at starting, it might work in that division.

I’d be surprised if Hardy makes type A, he’d have to stay healthy and hit 20+ HR to make up for last year. Neither he nor Reynolds made the cut in 2010.

"I hear the question, and I'm not going to answer it," Gregg Williams

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 9, 2010 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

I’m kinda surprised about Reynolds at least. He always hits a ton of homeruns

Wigglypuff uses Walk Off. Papelbon faints. -Jakattak88

by OsandRoyals on Dec 9, 2010 12:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually that makes sense

I forgot that corner infielders were grouped together on the Elias rankings. Middle infielders are grouped together too. Well there’s still a real chance that one of them nets draft picks

Wigglypuff uses Walk Off. Papelbon faints. -Jakattak88

by OsandRoyals on Dec 9, 2010 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's the info from MLBTR
2B/3B/SS: PA, AVG, OBP, HR, RBI, Fielding percentage, Total chances at designated position

So you need a lot of playing time, you need to hit well, near the top of the order, and with power, and not make errors. And, importantly for us here, it’s the past TWO seasons.

LaRoche was a type B this season. I’m surprised about Reynolds as well, he must have gotten killed batting .198 and made a lot of errors, and that’ll hurt his ranking in 2011

"I hear the question, and I'm not going to answer it," Gregg Williams

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 10, 2010 2:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Reynolds is under team control through '12 with an option for '13

I also think it’s pretty likely that Hardy is a Type B, which would make that deal especially sweet. Hoey and Jacobsen for a top 50 pick in 2012?

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Dec 10, 2010 2:22 AM EST up reply actions  

You're correct about Reynolds

Hardy is a FA at the end of ‘11, and he hit 6 HR last year, so he’ll have a tough hill to climb.

"I hear the question, and I'm not going to answer it," Gregg Williams

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 10, 2010 7:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Agree

The moves we made will not allow us to overtake the Yankees, Red Sox,, and TB, but they will make us a better offensive team. A better offense coupled with the good pitching we exhibited at the end of the year, coupled with a better start of the season, should put the Orioles in sight of .500 next year. At least I hope so. All in all, a good off season so far.

by BaltoBen on Dec 9, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Off my bookmarks

Objectivity is down; sacasm is up. Stacy is sounding like all the folks on that negative filled daytime radio station she has been hanging around.

by 4morushsup on Dec 9, 2010 12:33 PM EST reply actions  

ahahaha

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Dec 9, 2010 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

FYI

it’s Stacey with an e.

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I was negative?

What about that was negative? The team will be better in 2011 but there has been no improvement for the future. Fact.

You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990

by Stacey on Dec 9, 2010 1:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I for one thought “vomit worthy” was kinda upbeat. ‘Course, I could be wrong. Depends on whether you’re talkin’ chunky style or creamy smooth there, I guess.

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.

by Titov on Dec 9, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Chunky is always the best

If it’s creamy smooth, you’ve eaten something weird.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Dec 9, 2010 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Roger that. A semester in Euroland many moons ago convinced me that there are few worse next-morning experiences than

the creamy-smoothers wrought by a wine drunk.

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.

by Titov on Dec 9, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

… and you’ll be likely to see it on the back end, too.

by fishoutawata on Dec 9, 2010 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

To be fair, when I read it I actually chuckled and said something like Yup, tha’s right in my internal voice.

And then I threw up.

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.

by Titov on Dec 9, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

How is this not green already?

"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan

by duck on Dec 9, 2010 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Stacey:

Sorry I missed the show. Is your analysis that the moves we have made so far will help in the short term, but will not make the team better long term? I am curious as to your view about moves that that management can make to improve the team long term other than draft better, develop better, and obtain some foreign players? For example, should we have traded some of our established players for more prospects, or should we have emptied the vault for Carl Crawford.

by BaltoBen on Dec 9, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

ummm,
The team will be better in 2011 but there has been no improvement for the future. Fact.

This really is not a “fact”.

First of all, 2011 is the future. 2nd, Reynolds and Koji are under team control through 2012, so the team should technically be better than the 2010 version even beyond next year.

Also, I love me some JamesF, but statements like

Say it with me: we are not a contender and there are no awards for fourth place.

are a little ridiculous in December.

For the final third of the season last year, the Orioles outplayed the rest of their division. While it’s silly to expect them to keep up that pace, it’s just as silly to assume that all of the YankSox moves will pan out. It’s not a stretch at all to say that, assuming Matusz and Arrieta both progress, the Orioles could have some of the best pitching in baseball in 2011. We can’t count on it, but we can’t rule it out, either.

To put it another way, if the Orioles sign Adam LaRoche and the Yankees fail to land Cliff Lee and Pettitte, the AL East will become far more of a dogfight than it presently is. Enough to make us “contenders”? Well, a lot of things would have to break our way for that to happen. But it’s certianly not beyond the realm of possibility, particularly when you consider the unpredictable elements of the game (such as the injury plague that hit Boston this past year).

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Dec 9, 2010 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

do you think the team will contend in 2011?

If not, does it matter if they’re improved a bit?

For the record, I support these moves. But it’s not gonna be what gets the Orioles to contention or what helps them stay there.

You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990

by Stacey on Dec 9, 2010 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

do you think the team will contend in 2011?

I think they contend on opening day. After that, I don’t have a crystal ball.

But I can’t say for sure they won’t contend. And neither can you, although you did above.

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Dec 9, 2010 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

If the Orioles are in contention in September of 2011 I will buy you a fabulous gift.

You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990

by Stacey on Dec 9, 2010 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

The Orioles in contention in September of 2011 IS a fabulous gift.

And I couldn’t buy anyone else a fabulous gift because I’d need money for playoff tickets.

"One way to lower a flag to half-mast is just to lower the flag. There's another way, though. You can raise the pole to like twice its original height." - Infinite Jest

by Eat More Esskay on Dec 9, 2010 3:03 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

playoffs?!?

"I hear the question, and I'm not going to answer it," Gregg Williams

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 10, 2010 2:32 AM EST up reply actions  

You will NEVER beat the ice tea maker I gave him

"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan

by duck on Dec 9, 2010 4:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

oh calm down I'm not trying to steal your BFF

You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990

by Stacey on Dec 9, 2010 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

You're just mad you didn't think of it first

"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan

by duck on Dec 9, 2010 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't like Pettitte for next year, so I hope the Yerkees sign him -- and watch him blow himself up, basically. Real good..

I also happen to think he needs at least one more T — Pettittte, or possibly Petttittte. I mean, he’s no Hwhigglingggton, but still…

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.

by Titov on Dec 9, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

How about Ptettitte?

The first t is silent, of course.

"One way to lower a flag to half-mast is just to lower the flag. There's another way, though. You can raise the pole to like twice its original height." - Infinite Jest

by Eat More Esskay on Dec 9, 2010 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahahahaha, good one!

And I can’t wait for Ptettittte to go all silent, too. His number is up.

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.

by Titov on Dec 9, 2010 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

It is easy to pick an arbitrary sample and say that represents our talent level

…but despite the awesomeness of Buck, I simply don’t find this credible. Our full season statistics reflect pretty fairly how good of a team we were. We had one three win player, Luke Scott. The Rays had five, two of whom were worth 6.9 wins each. The Red Sox had eight, the Yankees seven. Adding two players worth about two wins each won’t do it. We are talking about counting on an improvement of about four wins each from Matusz, Wieters, Jones, and Arrieta to simply keep pace, and that is without considering the impact that added players like Gonzalez or possibly Cliff Lee will have.

Why are we kidding ourselves? This is the kind of crap that keeps bad teams bad; the delusion that we’re just a couple decent pieces away from contention. But we’re not. Mark Reynolds and JJ Hardy don’t make us competitive with a lineup of Pedroia, Crawford, Youklis and Gonzalez. Not even close. They don’t make us competitive with Teixeira and A-Rod and Cano and Swisher. Brian Matusz has a long way to go before he’s the equivalent of David Price or CC Sabathia.

I have no interest in kidding myself; the Orioles are still not a very good team, and I’d bet a considerable amount of money that they are ten games out of third place in the AL east on September 1st.

To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa

by James F on Dec 10, 2010 1:48 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I don't think anyone really believes the Orioles are going to finish in 3rd place...

…though I don’t want to speak for zk.

I’d bet a considerable amount of money that they are ten games out of third place in the AL east on September 1st.

So it is pretty likely that the Rays are going to be in 3rd place on Sept 1. Through 135 games (roughly), their record will prolly be something like 75-60 (assuming they win about 90). So 10 games off that pace would be 65-70. I think it’s entirely possible that the Orioles will be within 10 games of them. I’m not sure how much I’d bet on that however.

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Dec 10, 2010 2:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Oh James, you old curmudgeon

marry me?

You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990

by Stacey on Dec 10, 2010 7:51 AM EST up reply actions  

He's right, you know

"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan

by duck on Dec 10, 2010 8:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Of course he is.

I don’t propose to dummies.

You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990

by Stacey on Dec 10, 2010 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

With your logic

they will absolutely never make the playoffs again, because the Yankees and Red Sox will always add pieces like Teixeira/Sabathia/Lee/Gonzalez/Crawford and the O’s simply will not, or at least not multiple ones at the same time. The Rays in 08 didn’t have superstars, and neither do many NL teams….I know I know…AL East, but still, there is a chance that with a good young core and adding the right few pieces can turn into success for the O’s…not saying it will this year, because against all my fanatical dreams, I realize in all likelihood it won’t happen.

Which brings me to this: I know almost the entire world is against expanding the playoffs….but honestly that may be our only real chance and getting in, barring the MLB suddenly deciding to hate NYY blood money and institute a salary cap….

by YeahDonnie on Dec 10, 2010 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

The Rays in 08 didn’t have superstars,

Evan Longoria and BJ Upton had 4 win seasons! Not to mention Big Game and Kazmir were damn good.

Spewing negativity.

by birdman on Dec 10, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

you grow the stars, or deal for them

This is what I keep pushing: we have to have the best minor league system, so that we can grow our own stars while also having a surplus to make trades when players like Justin Upton and Grienke become available. If they aren’t star players, I don’t think they are worth investing in; they simply don’t make enough of a difference.

To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa

by James F on Dec 10, 2010 2:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

There are 29 other teams drafting players

it’s not very easy to grow stars. Especially in baseball, where most players won’t be ready for years, if at all. So money can play a much larger part than drafting. It shouldn’t come down to a team having to do 100 things exactly perfect to even think about competing while others can make 1000 bad decisions and cover them up with a billion dollar roster and compete year in and year out.

by YeahDonnie on Dec 10, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

la la la la 3 win players la la la la 6.9 wins la la la la la

I’m making one very basic point, which you’re blowing out of proportion.

My point is, anything can happen. It doesn’t mean I think it will happen; it means I won’t categorically state that it can’t.

You’re twisting that point into “This is the kind of crap that keeps bad teams bad; the delusion that we’re just a couple decent pieces away from contention. But we’re not.” That’s setting up a straw man. I never suggested we are a couple of pieces away, or that we aren’t a bad team.

I suggested that if a lot of things break our way, the Orioles could, maybe, MAYBE, be contenders next year. Those things would basically include every one of our young players advancing forward in a way that is highly unlikely, while teams ahead of us implode for one reason or another.

It’s a bit of a fantasy, but then again, so is following a team with a 13-year losing streak. And stranger things have happened.

Do I think it is likely the Orioles will contend? Not at all. There’s no way I’d take your bet.

But do I outright insist the Orioles can’t contend? No. Because I don’t really know, and neither do you.

If we had had this same conversation a year ago, you could have told me that Boston was an XX-win team, and that they had the folllowing 5-win and 3-win players and a bunch of other number crunching that, guess what, didn’t amount to anything—because they got hit by injuries, and because Lackey sucked balls. I’m sure that a bunch of saber types, yourself included, would have expected the addition of Lackey to “add xx wins” to Boston’s season. You’d have been wrong.

No matter how many times you try to forecast the season on paper based on a dizzying array of statistics, you will always be off. Most of the time you will only be off by a little, but sometimes you will flat out be blindsided by what can happen in baseball.

This is why I continue to follow the sport, else what’s the point? But perhaps that’s just it—you and I have different reasons for being baseball fans, and that’s okay too.

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Dec 10, 2010 10:11 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

As long suffering O's fans

this is what keeps us going. Even if we know deep down we most likely won’t succeed, the glimmer of hope pre-season gets us through until August usually…this past year only April. I couldn’t watch baseball every year if I didn’t think there was at least a small outside chance they play well.

From Dumb and Dumber
 
   Lloyd: The least you could do is level with me. What are my chances?
    Mary: Not good.
    Lloyd: You mean like one out of a hundred?
    Mary: More like one out of a million.
    Lloyd: So you’re tellin’ me there’s a chance!

by YeahDonnie on Dec 10, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

speaking of straw men

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 10, 2010 11:21 AM EST up reply actions  

where?

I don’t think I set up a straw man. I’m proposing that James follows the game as much (or more) for his enjoyment of statistics than for his enjoyment of less measurable events.

There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, in my mind. And he’s welcome to refute it.

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Dec 10, 2010 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

the little rant about saber types bugged me is all and is off topic

No offense intended, of course. I think he’s spot on when he says these moves don’t even put us near the discussion table with the Red Sox, Yankees, and Rays. And I think responding to that pretty reasonable thing (despite his cold edge) with a mini-rant about playing the games on paper and WAR and whatever is weak sauce. Again: no offense intended.

You’re right that anything can happen in a season, but in the same way that I’m right that I could win the lottery three times in a row this month.

On the other hand, I’m not really sure what James is referring to when he says “this kind of crap”. Fan delusion? That seems absolutely like harmless fun. The Reynolds and Hardy trades? My response comes from Dave Cameron, the saber-type, writing about the Pirates trading for Akinori Iwamura:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-value-of-a-win-to-a-losing-team/

These moves don’t help the team long-term, but they don’t hurt long-term, and they make the short-term much more bearable. In my book, it doesn’t even make the Orioles a contender for .500, but that doesn’t mean the moves are “crap”.

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 10, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, i think i posted that link several times last offseason.

although i’m not fan of “making the short term much bearable” jazz. these guys typically don’t make the short term any more bearable.

Spewing negativity.

by birdman on Dec 10, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno

the Orioles picked up something in the area of 5 wins between these two guys, which ain’t much in the grand scope, but 5 wins is pretty noticeable to my mental anguish.

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 10, 2010 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

the rant was not off-topic at all

it’s the very heart of what i’m saying.

let me rephrase as simply as possible:

i like stats (to a degree). stats can tell you a lot about what’s passed, and can help to predict the future. however, they cannot tell the future.

it is literally the semantic difference between these two similar, but distinct, statements:

  • “because of these stats, I think the Orioles are unlikely to contend”
  • “because of these stats, the Orioles will not contend”

The first statement is one which I don’t object to; in fact, I actually agree with it.
The second statement drives me bananas, and is the crux of what I’m saying in this thread.

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Dec 10, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

less measurable events

I agree, just enjoy the game for what it is. If you have on paper the best WAR, what is the point of the season? Why not just say – OK the Phillies and the Red Sox as of April 1 have the best +WAR-team-ISOw/superness so they will be in the WS. The regular season is just so we can determine draft picks. Why does Reynolds and Hardy automatically preclude failure in the long term sucess of this team becasue their 2009 WAR was 5? It doesn’t and no one knows nor does your sabermeterics. I have no problem with the debate of stats but it gets SO F-ING irrating when failure is assumed in december so after the season people can say I told you so because their fangraph WAR chart was right.

by Philly O's on Dec 10, 2010 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I would say less statistics themselves...

And more what they can tell me about how baseball functions as a system.

I’m interested in why things happen how they do. And baseball, with its massive quantities of data, is endlessly interesting because it offers such opportunities for quantitative analysis.

To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa

by James F on Dec 10, 2010 3:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

If I'm negative

I learned it by watching James alright! I learned it by watching James.

Spewing negativity.

by birdman on Dec 10, 2010 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

agree, but
Brian Matusz has a long way to go before he’s the equivalent of David Price or CC Sabathia.

Right now, that’s true. Matusz could easily turn into Price next season. Price’s first full season in the bigs wasn’t stellar either (98 ERA+, 102/54 SO/BB). Matusz has the track record and the talent to be just as good as Price and CC next season.

Spewing negativity.

by birdman on Dec 10, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

This is the first flame we've gotten in a while.

I enjoyed it. Makes us feel like a real website.

"One way to lower a flag to half-mast is just to lower the flag. There's another way, though. You can raise the pole to like twice its original height." - Infinite Jest

by Eat More Esskay on Dec 9, 2010 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Camden Chat: Stil a Blog, Now With Flames

And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard

by TerroristFistJab on Dec 9, 2010 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

There's an e in Stacey you are missing.

I have the burn marks to prove that’s not a good idea to do more than once.

Commenting on allegations on the use of torture against terrorost suspects: "If hooking up one raghead terrorist prisoner's testicles to a car battery to get the truth out of the lying little camel shagger will save just one Canadian life, then I have only three things to say:

Red is positive, black is negative, and make sure his nuts are wet"

Don Cherry

by timg56 on Dec 9, 2010 6:39 PM EST up reply actions  

My biggest concern with this offseason

is the pitching. The system got raided for pitchers at all levels. Two MLB relievers for Reynolds, an AAA and an AA pitcher went to the Twins, we lost 2 and gained one in the Rule 5 draft. I hope we’ve still got a bumper crop of arms coming in.

On the positive, we get to keep Koji, didn’t lose anyone untouchable like Tillman or Erbe (or Reimold), and we don’t look to lose any draft picks. I hope they learned their lesson last year about Type A relievers.

"I hear the question, and I'm not going to answer it," Gregg Williams

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 9, 2010 12:34 PM EST reply actions  

From what I've seen

all the pitchers we lost were destined to be relievers. The only of them that I thought would be valuable was Hernandez.

Wigglypuff uses Walk Off. Papelbon faints. -Jakattak88

by OsandRoyals on Dec 9, 2010 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

"we are not a contender and there are no awards for fourth place"

True, but we didn’t sacrifice anything in the moves we made and you cant predict if/when our young core will develop. My hope is that next year is the year we contend for the playoffs and beyond.

"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law

by Reddrummer9187 on Dec 9, 2010 12:35 PM EST reply actions  

In Baltimore, .500 counts

And even if we still aren’t competetive in the ridiculous East, we definitely stand to kick some ass elsewhere. Maybe. And that would make for an immensely more pleasurable season.

by fishoutawata on Dec 9, 2010 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm pleased

It would have been great to land Gonz or Crawford and it’s sobering to think of them joining the Sox, but consider:

- The Sox lost Victor and Beltre, so had to replace some serious talent.

- They had to give up 3 good prospects, though I’ve long thought Kelly to be overrated. It used to please me that Boston’s #1 prospect couldn’t get anybody out above A-ball. Now it’s annoying.

- They spent a TON of $$ on Carl and the forthcoming Gonz extension. Probably worth it but, in concept at least, it’s money we still have to spend.

So, back to the vacuum: we’ve upgraded at two spots and brought back Koji while avoiding bad contracts (until we sign Gregg. don’t do it Andy!). We’ve also avoided Type A’s so far and haven’t lost any top prospects.

by Dingbat Charlie on Dec 9, 2010 12:51 PM EST reply actions  

Is Beltre out of the discussion at this point?

That whole Reynolds at 1B, Beltre at 3rd sounded pretty damn good to me. And we have the cash.

by Jonny Pops on Dec 9, 2010 1:21 PM EST reply actions  

I think it's

sort of that old ‘confederate money’ syndrome with us. I think he just doesn’t want to play in Bmore.

"Tragedy is what happens to me. Comedy is what happens to you." -Mel Brooks

by jobe on Dec 9, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Soured a bit

Beltre sounds good in theory but there’s the problem that he only seems to do well on a contract year.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 9, 2010 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

No, you don't get awards for fourth place

But you need to give the guys on the major league club some hope. It seems unfair to a guy like Nick Markakis who signs a six year extension, and in the span of those six years we keep resetting the start date to when we can contend to be a winning ballclub and eventually a playoff team.

"Tragedy is what happens to me. Comedy is what happens to you." -Mel Brooks

by jobe on Dec 9, 2010 1:28 PM EST reply actions  

its not about resetting the date

adding JJ Hardy for one year doesn’t reset or not reset anything. It is and always has been and always will be about Wieters and Jones and Matusz and Arrieta and Tillman and so on.

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

It doesn't change the target any

but it may make the process of getting there a little less painful without giving up anything important. For a team that hasn’t won in a long time, there is value in that.

by kba26 on Dec 9, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

no disagreement there

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

And Wieters, Jones, Matusz, etc.

need to win at some point. I’m not advocating getting mentors for upcoming stars on the team, but would you really want last year’s sixty six team to return almost entirely intact ?

"Tragedy is what happens to me. Comedy is what happens to you." -Mel Brooks

by jobe on Dec 9, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I said this last year, too, but:

if the 2011 Orioles win 84 games because JJ Hardy and free agent 1Bman have monster years on one-year deals while Wieters struggles and Arrieta and Tillman fail to develop, then the year is a big waste.

You need stopgaps, absolutely, and I much prefer these guys to whatever alternatives there existed…but there’s a big difference between being mediocre with stopgaps and moving up the target contention date.

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I was optimistic going into last year

because I thought our young talent was going to turn the corner. It didn’t. But even if it did, the team still would have sucked because of Tejada and Atkins and Millwood and Gonzalez, etc.

I am once again optimistic that our young talent will turn the corner in 2011. I might very well be wrong. But I think that if they do it this year, we will be in a much better position to compete than we would have been if 2010 was the year that the young core put it together.

So there is a point to putting the best spare parts available on the field to go with the core. We don’t know when (or sadly if) they will put it all together, but when they do, I want them to be surrounded by players who don’t suck so much.

"Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.."

by tflach2 on Dec 9, 2010 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not disagreeing with playing the best possible stopgaps

but I am disagreeing with the idea of competing in 2011. NOT. GONNA. HAPPEN.

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

define "competing"

how many games within the WC, how late into the season?

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Dec 9, 2010 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

within 6 on September 1

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

honestly though

to be “competing” you usually need a team on paper that can be slated for at least 90 wins. That’s a pipe dream so big and ridiculous you can see the ninja turtles living in it.

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 3:09 PM EST up reply actions  

if we're within games of the WC on sept 1st, we could very well win 90 games

and STILL miss the playoffs (BOS 89 this year and missed).

Spewing negativity.

by birdman on Dec 9, 2010 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

right, that's exactly what I'm saying

you’re “in the picture” if you can win 90 games. And if you aren’t in the picture, then you’re building for next year.

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

and i just want to say that the blue jays are fucking good. 85 wins last year from a team brimming with young talent? maybe jose bautista turns into a pumpkin, but 4th place for the o’s would be an accomplishment.

Spewing negativity.

by birdman on Dec 9, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

people tend to forget

that they were almost over .500 and were still in 4th place. if that’s not depressing I don’t know what is.

Straight cash homey
Pro Football South
Get 'em.

by danielreese05 on Dec 9, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

but if

Wieters struggles and Arrieta and Tillman fail to develop, then this year would still be a waste even if A-Gon, Lee, and Crawford were here. You have to realize that this organization is going to approach this season as if the young core of this team will succeed. Not everybody sits back and waits for failure so they can say I told you so. These signings are a way to upgrade at the positions of need in order to supplement the O’s young talented core. I don’t think anyone is saying that Hardy and Reynolds are now the face of this franchise nor should anyone expect that. If this team is going to succeed and beat the best, then a majority of that success will come from the roster prior to this week.

by Philly O's on Dec 9, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Again, I'm not disagreeing with that

I’m simply saying that while these guys are nicer than Tejada and Atkins, they’re still JUST stopgaps, and not really a part of what we’re hoping the Orioles are building.

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

so what do you suggest?

you still need to field a team and sell tickets.

by Philly O's on Dec 9, 2010 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not suggesting anything

I’m happy with the offseason so far.

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

exactly

all you have done all week is assume the failure of this team. what is the point?

by Philly O's on Dec 9, 2010 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

...what do you want to hear?

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

He's lying, you know.

"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan

by duck on Dec 9, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions  

as long as

I get a hug with the lie, I am fine

by Philly O's on Dec 9, 2010 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I really want Adam LaRoche

He’s a solid player with a good glove and I think that’s all we need at 1B at this point. As for Hardy, he’s definitely an upgrade but that’s not saying much.

Where are my shoelaces?

by DCO'sfan on Dec 9, 2010 1:29 PM EST reply actions  

I see no need to sign LaRoche

Hes not good, and 1B can be solved other ways later. Why waste money on somebody when we can wait to really upgrade next year.

"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law

by Reddrummer9187 on Dec 9, 2010 1:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I assume you mean Prince?

Probably because he’s a Boras client so you know he will be grossly over payed in years and dollars. Also because he’s incredibly out of shape and a very good candidate to not age well.

by Mr. E on Dec 9, 2010 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Not that out of shape

And that would factor into the pay scale i assume. And yes, he would be grossly overpaid, but every single FA is. You gotta do it at some point.

"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law

by Reddrummer9187 on Dec 9, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Prince in 2011!

Plus, you shift him to DH once his body starts failing and you’ve saved him a year or two.

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 9, 2010 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

plus,

his purple topcoat would go over well with ravens fans

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Dec 9, 2010 6:35 PM EST up reply actions  

what about...

his raspberry beret?

At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!

-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland

by j.q. higgins on Dec 9, 2010 7:56 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

I meant to reference that Prince when someone asked how tall Fielder was, I just get so busy some times.

What up?

by snakethejake on Dec 9, 2010 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Not asking too much...

He’s gotta play the solo from ‘My Guitar Gently Weeps’ after every homer.

HE MADE THE GUITAR DISAPPEAR, MAN!!! He’s a f-ing genie!

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 9, 2010 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

ESPN is reporting JJ Hardy and Brendan Harris

for Brett Jacobson and Jim Hoey deal is complete.

.02

by HIO'sFan on Dec 9, 2010 1:54 PM EST reply actions  

Doesn't make us contenders, but ...

a solid season around .500 may make us more attractive to free agents next offseason. Nobody cares about the last 2 months of last season outside of Baltimore. Especially when you still lost 90+ games. However a solid season built around a young core, could make FAs such as Prince Fielder more likely to take a chance on us. I know money talks, but I think it will take a whole lot more than most people think for a player to be willing to suffer in the cellar of the AL East for 7-8 years.

by edsachs1 on Dec 9, 2010 1:54 PM EST reply actions  

I think whatever penalty the Orioles have on the free agent market

has a lot to do with their terrible track record, but also a lot to do with their direct competition. One .500 year isn’t going to make the track record go away (SSS).

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

It doesn't matter what anyone thinks becasue....

…Dick Vitale says WATCH OUT FOR THE O’S, BABY!

DickieV Dick Vitale

Watch the Orioles as they r making solid moves getting Reynolds & Hardy – look 4THE_ADAM_JONES to have a breakout year!

by Dave Tucker on Dec 9, 2010 3:23 PM EST reply actions  

HE'S A PTP!!!

Did AJ go to Duke? I didn’t know that…

Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.

by arlingtonOsFan on Dec 9, 2010 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

This is so weird.

Who knew Vitale took any interest at all in baseball, let alone in the Orioles in particular?

Serendipity, baby!

"One way to lower a flag to half-mast is just to lower the flag. There's another way, though. You can raise the pole to like twice its original height." - Infinite Jest

by Eat More Esskay on Dec 9, 2010 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

he's a gigantic Rays fan

I could dream it forever and still not do it, but when the time comes for it to be done, God, I want to be ready for it.

by Andrew_G on Dec 9, 2010 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Season tix holder from the genning, iirc

"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan

by duck on Dec 9, 2010 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

he has been seen at Os spring training in the past

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Dec 9, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

He follows Jonesy on Twitter?

That seems weird to me.

From the Land of Pleasant Living...

by OEutaw on Dec 9, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember Adam Jones tweeting about having dinner at his house during ST last year

You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990

by Stacey on Dec 9, 2010 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Vitale is pretty much the most famous person to graduate my alma mater

William Paterson University. It must be the orange and black that attracts him to the O’s.

"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower

by daveh873 on Dec 9, 2010 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

The two famousest people who went to my school

dropped out. (Jeff Koons and David Byrne). Also Jeff Koons came back to speak…he’s kind of an ass.

cxcxcxcxzzzzzzzzz

by Steve. on Dec 9, 2010 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

So is there any more action we're waiting for?

What are the odds we actually sign a firstbase or a starting pitcher?

Are there any other trades likely to happen?

Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.

by arlingtonOsFan on Dec 9, 2010 4:15 PM EST reply actions  

LaRoche sounds like a good bet

and we need to fill a couple spots in the bullpen

by kba26 on Dec 9, 2010 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

And we're certain he'll work out better than fatkins?

Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.

by arlingtonOsFan on Dec 9, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Conceded.

Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.

by arlingtonOsFan on Dec 9, 2010 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

no certainties...

but he seems good for about 20+ homers w/ good defense.

At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!

-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland

by j.q. higgins on Dec 9, 2010 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya dig

I’d like to see MacPhail go hard after Pavano. Give him a three-year deal, let Briton and Tillman duke it out in ST. Whoever wins is in the rotation, the loser goes to the pen for a spell. I love the idea of a deep rotation. Get it deep, Andy!

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 9, 2010 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Hm?

If we got Pavano, there isn’t room for Britton or Tillman…

Pavano/Matusz/Guthrie/Bergesen/Arrieta

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver

by Vuff on Dec 9, 2010 6:32 PM EST up reply actions  

one of who will invariably be injured during the season

leaving the better of Britton/TIllman to come up and pitch for a spell

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Dec 9, 2010 6:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, yes.

I thought we were talking Opening Day rotations.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver

by Vuff on Dec 9, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

what's lef

go hard after greinke trade. give up reimold/pie/scott and a pitcher (tillman?)

sign a 1B, Lee or Laroche, and go after prince next year. or, if beltre changes his tune, sign him and move reynolds to first.

find some cheap bullpen arms (not gregg, i wouldn’t kill them for wanting soriano)

if scott is traded (for greinke, say), bring in vladdy or similar to DH.

by Luke E on Dec 9, 2010 6:39 PM EST reply actions  

three team deal

we send Albers to KC, They send us Greinke, They send someone to Milwaukee who sends us Prince. We get Greinke and Prince, the Royals get Albers, and Milwaukee gets whoever they want.

Everyone’s happy.

cxcxcxcxzzzzzzzzz

by Steve. on Dec 9, 2010 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

One snag.

We don’t have Albers anymore.

We might have to dig deep and send Simon instead.

Or maybe Viola?

by Chanumas on Dec 9, 2010 7:21 PM EST up reply actions  

it really only works with albers.

We’ll have to do whatever it takes to get albers back.

cxcxcxcxzzzzzzzzz

by Steve. on Dec 9, 2010 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Get a couple new cake flavors at the postgame spread

He’ll be back.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Dec 9, 2010 7:51 PM EST up reply actions  

what isn't? reimold and tillman?

probably not, and they might want a younger/better prospect than reimold/pie. but we don’t have much more to offer short of arrietta, britton, etc., and it doesn’t make sense to part with too much. besides, the trades so far have all yielded underwhelming returns. what do you think it would take?

by Luke E on Dec 9, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

This off-season has gone pretty well for next year and beyond

I don’t think any expects the Orioles to contend for anything other than 4th place next year. And fine, whatever. But a few points:
- 3B is likely solved for the next 3 seasons, and the Orioles better be ready to compete within that timeframe. I read some interesting stuff regarding decrease in LD% and wrist injuries, and if he’s 100%, I’m definitely willing to give the opportunity to be better than league average at 3B. Plus, if Bell develops, Reynolds can always get moved to first.
- SS is a big improvement for next year, plus the team will likely offer him arbitration or flip him in July. This definitely has the potential to help in the future. And it also may help get the Orioles over the 75 win hump, which might decrease the confederate money problem
- Koji – I was pretty irked that he wasn’t offered arbitration, but I need to get over it. Ideally he gets offered arbitration and signs a multiyear deal elsewhere, but any contract with performance incentives based on effectiveness for an injury prone pitcher is cool with me.
- I’m pretty happy with the Rule 5 results…the team didn’t lose Pelzer or Adams, and picked up a guy with a live arm who might be swapped for Morneau come July.

I think the big thing that I’m pleased with is that the team was able to use some of its financial flexibility to acquire two players who are in the primes of their career. Since the Orioles aren’t attractive to free agents, they must use their resources in the form of salary dumps (which is what the Reynolds and Hardy moves were from the perspective of the Dbacks and Twins).

There has been some discouraging stuff to be sure, not enough internationally and the VMART offer, but I came away pretty pleased with the progress of the team over the winter meetings. Kind of a foreign feeling really.

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Dec 9, 2010 7:02 PM EST reply actions  

I like the offseason so far

The team has been trading tangible assets for major league pieces. The pieces aren’t great, but they are useful. Assuming the young talent actually grows, we’ll be in a good position for the future. Of course, that is a big if there. At the very least, Hardy is a part that can be traded at the deadline for likely more than we traded for him.

by Holymittens on Dec 9, 2010 7:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

I know we'll probably still be lucky to be 4th place this year

but all this recent news nearly brought a tear to my eye. This is the most excited I’ve been about the O’s in a while. Every year I seem to fall into the same “Wow Daniel Cabrera/Garret Olson/Adam Loewen/Hayden Penn are gonna make us crazzzzzzy good some day” but this year may have the most potential since (before) Cal left. Hopefully, the majority of the young core keeps starts progressing and the additions make solid contributions.

"You know how I get the safety? No safety so I went to hit Ray, and I lost...BAD" Chad Johnson on trying to block the great #52

by YeahDonnie on Dec 9, 2010 10:30 PM EST reply actions  

I'm psyched for spring training.

If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.

by Knubles and Bits on Dec 9, 2010 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Hopefully this year we all don't wanna kill ourselves

by mid April. August is acceptable….but if we can stay ok that long maybe the kill ourselves urge will pass.

"You know how I get the safety? No safety so I went to hit Ray, and I lost...BAD" Chad Johnson on trying to block the great #52

by YeahDonnie on Dec 9, 2010 10:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel pretty good about this team.

Even if they suck it up we should get to see some exciting homeruns. I really think that Jones, Matusz, and Wieters are going to make big strides this year and we will be competitive. Not necessarily competitive in the playoff picture, but good enough to win on any given night.

If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.

by Knubles and Bits on Dec 9, 2010 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree on Matusz and Wieters

I’m hopeful for Jones, but sadly think his potential is much less than originally hoped for. If they all improve, this will be a very fun year. I think Reimold could actually be the biggest difference maker on this team if he stays healthy and gets back to 09 form and beyond. I love his batting eye and power potential.

"You know how I get the safety? No safety so I went to hit Ray, and I lost...BAD" Chad Johnson on trying to block the great #52

by YeahDonnie on Dec 9, 2010 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I too am excited for 2011

I don’t think they will finish any better than 4th place, but looking at the team, there is a lot to like. In the 13 year stretch of crapiness that we have endured, the Orioles have finished strong exactly twice. In 2004 and 2010. In the year that followed that ‘04 campaign, the Orioles played pretty strong for the first 3 months of the season. And while that was fueled by PEDs, the 2011 team should have many players whose (who’s?) best days are ahead of them. Potential lineup:
Roberts
Hardy
Markakis
Reynolds
Scott
Wieters
first base (hopefully LaRoche)
Jones
Pie

That lineup doesn’t suck. The health is questionable, but still, everybody is healthy right now.

And of course the success of the last two months was all on the pitching staff, which has Guthrie, Matusz, 3E1N, Arrieta and Tillman. With Britton a few months away.

82 wins might be a stretch, but I don’t think 78 is.

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Dec 9, 2010 11:56 PM EST up reply actions  

You had whose right the first time

That lineup doesn’t suck. That’s probably the most positive thing said about this team in years. So sad. I definitely think 78 can be done. If (and this is a one in a million shot) all of our young guys can take a step forward, .500+ isn’t out of the question either. But it defies history and logic to think Matusz/Arrieta/Tillman/Jones/Wieters/Reimold etc will all progress at once.

by YeahDonnie on Dec 10, 2010 12:13 AM EST up reply actions  

it's true

I’m sure not all will progress at once, but hey, it’s December. Witness:
Roberts: Brian comes back to form and his injury plagued ‘10 saves some middle infielder wear and tear
Hardy: somewhere between where he was in ’08 and ’10
Markakis: has a normal growth curve that we expected after his strong ’08 and ’09 campaigns
Reynolds: his terrible BA was a reflection of bad luck and injuries
Scott: doesn’t fall off too much from ‘10
Wieters: takes the step that we expect if his bat speed can increase
Jones: really played well after horrid start
Pie: if healthy, we’ve all seen the flashes

Guthrie: continues to outperform FIP like he has done throughout career
Matusz: could be something special after second half
3E1N: personally offended by my concerns over low K rates, continues to be a solid #4
Arrieta: continues to progress
Tillman: works on keeping ball in ballpark
Britton: lefty with Ks and groundballs = success

Obviously not nearly all of that is going to happen, but I think there are many reasons to be optimistic.

Also, thanks re: who’s v. whose…that is one little rule that I can never keep straight!

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Dec 10, 2010 12:26 AM EST up reply actions  

If all that happens, I'm saving up for playoff tickets starting today

This is probably the most “real” potential this team has seen during its entire losing streak.

As for the who’s v whose thing…remember an apostrophe is used to omit letters or show possession…makes it easier.

by YeahDonnie on Dec 10, 2010 12:35 AM EST up reply actions  

I am especially psyched for this coming year,

because it’s the first time since Hargrove that i’ve had 100% unabashed confidence in our manager.

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Dec 10, 2010 12:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Anyone else excited for 5 more years of Howard Stern?

As someone who is in/around a vehicle all day for work, it made my day. Baba Booey Baba Booey!

"You know how I get the safety? No safety so I went to hit Ray, and I lost...BAD" Chad Johnson on trying to block the great #52

by YeahDonnie on Dec 9, 2010 10:59 PM EST reply actions  

I haven't listened to him since he made the jump

to satellite. Not sure if I will ever own satellite radio either.

If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.

by Knubles and Bits on Dec 9, 2010 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

If you listen to a lot of radio, as I do with my job

it is 500% worth it. Not only for Howard, whose shows have been incredible on satellite, but commercial free music with tons of channels to choose from is awesome. I couldn’t get through my day without it.

"You know how I get the safety? No safety so I went to hit Ray, and I lost...BAD" Chad Johnson on trying to block the great #52

by YeahDonnie on Dec 9, 2010 11:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I listen mostly to local sports radio.

If I get a new car one day then it will include the satellite radio option, but until then I am set.

If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.

by Knubles and Bits on Dec 9, 2010 11:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I listen to a lot of local sports too

except Viviano and Bulldog….just purely unlistenable…..

"You know how I get the safety? No safety so I went to hit Ray, and I lost...BAD" Chad Johnson on trying to block the great #52

by YeahDonnie on Dec 9, 2010 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I would've agreed with you pre-merger

but us XM subscribers really got screwed. I cancelled a long time ago and don’t plan on resubscribing.

by PhilR8 on Dec 9, 2010 11:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

What happened with the XM side of the deal that screwed their subscribers? Having only had Sirius, I’m curious.

by YeahDonnie on Dec 9, 2010 11:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't really like the way they merged channels either

and I still don’t understand how subscribers have to pay extra for “Best of _” for the other service, it should all be joined.

by YeahDonnie on Dec 9, 2010 11:34 PM EST up reply actions  

AND we don't get Stern without paying for it

"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan

by duck on Dec 10, 2010 7:00 AM EST up reply actions  

GREAT!
AS THE QUEEN OF THE BIRTHERS I AM DELIGHTED TO ANNOUNCE A NEW CITIZEN IN MY KINGDOM: A MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYER, LUKE SCOTT FROM BALTIMORE OREOS. PLEASE, CALL EVERY MEMBERS OF THAT TEAM AND URGE THEM TO COME TO NEARBY FORT MEADE ON DEC 14-15 AND SUPPORT AMERICAN HERO LTC LAKIN, FIGHTING CORRUPT AND ILLEGITIMATE REGIME AND A CORRUPT JUDICIARY

Bring back Luis Matos.

by WestcoastO'sFan on Dec 9, 2010 11:11 PM EST reply actions  

That clearly had to be Stacey.

………… j/k please don’t ban me.

If you were a hotdog would you eat yourself? I know I would.

by Knubles and Bits on Dec 9, 2010 11:14 PM EST up reply actions  

the oreos?

really? dios mio.

At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!

-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland

by j.q. higgins on Dec 10, 2010 8:04 AM EST up reply actions  

da oh-ri-ohs

The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST

by the fix is in on Dec 10, 2010 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

see...

that reminds of the days of brooks robinson as a color commentator. he said oreos. i liked that.

pretty sure he alse called brady anderson “bradley” for a while, but that’s another matter.

At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!

-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland

by j.q. higgins on Dec 10, 2010 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Brooks-isms

I always liked “Mark Maccalamore.”

by Joltin Joe Orsulak on Dec 10, 2010 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Sarah Palin?

"You know how I get the safety? No safety so I went to hit Ray, and I lost...BAD" Chad Johnson on trying to block the great #52

by YeahDonnie on Dec 9, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

hahaha

whaaaat

cxcxcxcxzzzzzzzzz

by Steve. on Dec 9, 2010 11:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Nah, Hardy will be number 7 like he was with the Brewers

Because Mauer already had 7 when Hardy joined the Twins.

27-Reynolds
7-Hardy

by LoveForTheGame13 on Dec 10, 2010 12:25 AM EST up reply actions  

So what you're really saying is

they won’t bring back THE number 27…..Hendo

by YeahDonnie on Dec 10, 2010 12:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't think 7 is available.

It’s been semi-retired since Cal Sr. used it.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver

by Vuff on Dec 10, 2010 2:21 AM EST up reply actions  

17 - Matusz

Someone’s getting a new watch.
37 Albers available

"I hear the question, and I'm not going to answer it," Gregg Williams

by CoachOfEarl on Dec 10, 2010 2:25 AM EST up reply actions  

7 1/8

Forget those whole number. It’s fractions time! (not to be confused with Lima Time, God rest his bleach-bearded soul)

by Dr Orpheus on Dec 10, 2010 2:36 AM EST up reply actions  

is it time...

for our annual resuscitation of their masterpiece on the mercenary ways of paul bako?

At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!

-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland

by j.q. higgins on Dec 10, 2010 8:09 AM EST up reply actions  

okay, atswhatimtalkinabout...

benedict bako

At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!

-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland

by j.q. higgins on Dec 10, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Royals Review is a brilliant site

You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990

by Stacey on Dec 10, 2010 9:06 AM EST up reply actions  

and, yeesh...

people think WE’RE sarcastic?

At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!

-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland

by j.q. higgins on Dec 10, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Wouldn't you be?

At least we have Baltimore and the ocean. What the hell do KC fans have?

"It has nothing to do with corruption. It's sheer, complete, total incompetence." - Joe Rogan

by duck on Dec 10, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions  

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