Wednesday Bird Droppings
8 7 DAYS TO PITCHERS AND CATCHERS
It actually took me a second to remember what day it was for the title of this thread. I haven't been to work since Friday and it's all starting to run together.
Mark Hendrickson agrees to $1.4 million deal with Baltimore Orioles - ESPN
The Orioles finally made it official yesterday. Welcome back, Hendo! -zk
Orioles sign lefty reliever Ohman - baltimoresun.com
A little more than a week before the first workout for pitchers and catchers, the Orioles added another left-hander to their bullpen competition, signing veteran Will Ohman to a minor league deal with an invitation to big league spring training. -Stacey
Coming Out of Hibernation " NumerOlogy
NumerOlogy has been updated for Spring Training. For any newer CC members who aren't familiar with NumerOlogy, get to know it. It rocks. -Stacey
Washburn rumor doesn't wash - baltimoresun.com
Peter Schmuck eases our minds with the news that Andy MacPhail isn't pursuing Washburn or Wang. -Stacey
Cardinals Sign Skip Schumaker to 2-yr, $4.7M Deal to Avoid Salary Arbitration
Schumaker gets a deal, but it looks like Jeremy Guthrie is destined for an arb hearing. -duck
Report: Wang to make decision soon - MLB- nbcsports.msnbc.com
Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com says that free agent right-hander Chien-Ming Wang will decide on a new team in the next 7 to 10 days. The Orioles are reportedly on his list. Hmm, sounds like agent talk to me. -duck
'Birds scratch two from Hot Stove lineup | delmarvanow.com
The Delmarva Shorebirds will hold its ninth annual Hot Stove Banquet , no rescheduled for Feb. 26. Mike Bordick and L.J. Hoes are out, but, hey, Tom Davis is in! Hide the buffet! -duck
Aramark to lay off 450 in April - baltimoresun.com
Aramark, who currently doesn't have a contract for OPaCY, lost another big deal in the city when University of Maryland Medical Center decided to stop out-sourcing its food and housekeeping. Rough winter for the company, with no guarantee the Orioles will renew. -duck
MLB Files Trademark Infringement Lawsuit Against Upper Deck -- MLB FanHouse
Upper Deck is definitely not in mint condition. The Carlsbad, Calif.-based collectibles company is now being sued by its first client: Major League Baseball. -duck
Q&A: 'MLB 10 The Show' cover athlete and Minnesota Twins catcher Joe Mauer - Game Hunters: USATODAY.com
An interview with Joe Mauer about motion capture and making baseball video games. -duck
Today on Hot Stove TV: Mark Sheldon of MLB.com, Randy Booth of OverTheMonster.com, and Stacey Long of CamdenChat.com
I'll be talking to the guys from hotstove.com at 3 p.m. today so if you're snowed in have nothing else to do, give it a listen. -Stacey
And today in CC history: Random Oriole: Hank Bauer (2007), MacPhail's presser (2008), Roch Kubatko calls out friend of Camden Chat for fisticuffs on Opening Day! (2009), ESPN: Tejada charged with lying to Congress (2009), and Cram the weepy apology, Alex (2009).
The time-traveling is just too dangerous. Better that I devote myself to study the other great mystery of the universe: Open Threads!
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the only good thing about this snow
work isn’t opening until noon today and I probably won’t have to go in.
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
O's website says 7 days, 3 hours at 9 am
Just sayin’
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
girls are bad at math
so I’ve just been following the countdown set forth initially by zk.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
for some reason, that made me LOL
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
OK, zk's definitely not a redneck
so it seems to me the redneck is the only one who CAN count around here. :)
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
If you count today and the 17th it's
But I don’t think we should because when we wake up on the 17th it’ll be PITCHERS AND CATCHERS. I’m a change it.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
there was all kinds of conflicting information....
….. and when i started the countdown, it was with the 18th as the report date. if the official site is saying the 17th, then be my guest.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
in fact,
I think I was led astray by USA today, which published the report date as the 18th. but springtrainingonline.com says it’s the 17th, with the first workout on the 18th. so what do they do on the 17th? get their nametags and gift bags?
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Hi, my name is Matt, and I'll be your savior this decade...
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I saw - quite impressive
Never been bow fishing myself.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I agree.
I suck at math!
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
I think this is what he's going for

And for the record, it is my experience girls are perfectly capable at math. My daughter’s kicking butt in Alg. I (college prep level) in 7th grade as a HS credit.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
That's a high school credit?
I hope this applies in Howard County!
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
Full year Algebra I?
It’s a required HS credit for all MD public schools. Alg I, Alg II, Geometry. Have to have all 3 to graduate.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
You're probably right.
But my brother is a math genius. He was doing multiplication in kindergarten and calculus in 8th grade. He wants to go to a smaller school because his grades aren’t good enough for Princeton, but we haven’t heard yet. He recently published a paper with a professor from UMD. That’s the sickest thing about Maryland rejecting him. He’s publishing a paper with a professor on their faculty…how can you reject someone like that?
Anyway, my dad and my brother always make fun of me because I’m more verbal-centered. My dad always says I could be good at math if I wanted to, but I disagree.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
i love math
then again…all ive taken is math. from algebra 1 to partial differential equations.
by twistedlogic on Feb 10, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
j/q higgins, if you're reading this
Yahoo fantasy baseball is open
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 9:18 AM EST reply actions
the wind is ridiculous.
I don’t want to go downstairs because I feel like my parents are gonna make me go out and shovel. ahahahh I feel 14.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
So go watch Dirty Dancing... :)
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Actually I'm watching Who Framed Roger Rabbit
You wanna make something of it, duck?
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
who framed what?
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
The kid is 12
The movie is about 10 years older than him.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
It's on tv right now
HBO Comedy if anyone is interested.
One good thing about being snowed in at my parents house is they have way better cable than me.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
That doesn't matter.
I’ve seen it. I’m only a year older than him.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
I thought you were 15?
I’m 13.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, I thought you were 14.
Yeah, I am 15.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
oh you're 13?
I thought you were 12. All the same to me I guess.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
The ages of 12 through 23
are all pretty much interchangable once you reach 30. :)
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
ahahah that's a leap
I’d totally date a 23 year old. I mean, like, once. Then I’d be annoyed.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Oh, you'd go twice.
Then stop returning his calls.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
depends on how hot he is I guess
:-)
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Picky, picky.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
When you're 40 or so
I bet you agree with me. :)
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
"Nose? That don't rhyme with walls!" "No, but this does!" *BOOT*
That was my sister’s favorite movie when she was little and I’ve always had a soft spot for it too.
Cry havoc and unleash the Esskay hot dogs of war! - The Wayward Oriole, Opening Day 2008
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 10, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
"SHE'S married to Roger Rabbit?"
Yeah…what a lucky girl
Bedard says he doesn't care and thinks goals are pointless.
No, no, classic pic.
I heartedly endorse your selection
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Is it wrong that I love that movie?
Ya see, I really like sappy classics, rom coms, and actual really good movies. It’s a strange combination.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
Why on earth would it be wrong?
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Seriously
That movie is a classic. I kind of want to watch it right now… and I totally could because I’m not at work! I’m at home, praying that the winds don’t knock out my power!
OH MY GOD IT'S DIP!!
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Well,
when I first watched it (two years ago) I was staying with my friend for two weeks during the summer. She basically said, “Don’t judge this movie.” I’ve decided that’s the cardinal rule of watching Dirty Dancing.
RIP Patrick Swayze.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
I'm now on Week 7 in Madden!
And the Chiefs are undefeated, and the Brwons are first in the AFC North, I am very concerned by this trend.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 9:31 AM EST reply actions
I used to geek out with that stuff
me and my brother would play on the same fanchise, simulating some weeks, sometimes I’d play as his opponent, sometimes he’d play as mine. Sometimes we met in the Super Bowl.
I’d write down like every division winner for every season.
The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST
by the fix is in on Feb 10, 2010 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
too many video games
you’re gonna burn your eyeballs up
by twistedlogic on Feb 10, 2010 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
and staring at the computer screen won't do that?
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
well i'm not really staring at the screen
its open, but im actually doing probs out of textbook right now
by twistedlogic on Feb 10, 2010 9:47 AM EST up reply actions
Off to play Pure on Xbox 360
Never thought a four-wheeler game could be fun, but hey, it is.
/gamertag is DuckAround – I’m on MW2 a lot, too.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
me too!
its scary how much my roommates and i play that game. super smash bros too.
by twistedlogic on Feb 10, 2010 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Hey Stacey, on Camden Chat night
or 64th win night, I swear that Hendo heard us and loved us.
The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST
were you guys doing a hendo chant?
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
we gave Hendo some love
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I am reminded of the guy in Hades in Greek mythology who has to push the boulder up the hill, and every time he gets it to the top it rolls back down over and over for all eternity.
Only, instead of that guy, it’s me, and instead of the boulder its an endlessly snow-refilling long gravel driveway.
Sisyphus.
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
Thanks. I couldn’t remember if it was him or Prometheus. But he gets his liver eaten by birds every day, doesn’t he?
prometheus does
he’s bound to the rock.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
I always find looking at proverbs to be enjoyable
Such as our own.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 9:43 AM EST reply actions
This one is one you should live by
Learn it now, and it will serve you well
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
ROTFLMFAO
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
he said,
(paraphrasing)
I had down “eggs”, “milk”, and “bread”, and then i crossed off “bread”.
and then i had “hope” and “change” because sometimes I forget.
PRICELESS!
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
I really don't want to turn this into another 700-post Open Thread, but...
Am I the only one who thinks it’s a little silly for the Obama administration to be making fun of Palin for jotting a few things on her hand when Obama’s rather famously reliant on teleprompters?
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
I really should've seen that coming.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
the thing is
I mean beyond the fact that she had something written on her hand, at the very same event she mocked Obama for always relying to teleprompters. That’s what makes it especially rich.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Actually, I bet a few others on here would agree.
Just not me.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
i still dont understand why its okay for obama to do things
but nobody else. liberals are so condescending.
by twistedlogic on Feb 10, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Do things like...
Here’s where I give you a chance to lay out your argument, rather than traffic in generalities. Because I could produce 100 specific things W did that pissed me off. Not Republicans in general, just Bush/Cheney.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
See below.
there’s a GIGANTIC difference between relying heavily on a teleprompter for a speech and having to write down the primary beliefs that make up your political party. It would be like if Obama needed a teleprompter to talk list healthcare reform, financial regulation, and jobs as the 3 goals of his administration.
I'm surprised
it took this long for this incident to come up. But since I’m now banned at work it may have as I have trouble sitting down and reading through 500+ comments a day.
Don't let the sunshine fool ya. - Townes Van Zandt
Sucks about work
Sorry to hear that. Bet the day goes much slower now…
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Oh I have a feeling you don’t get much done on any day because of this site.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
luckily
my job is apparently easy enough that spending 25% of my time during the work day is enough.
I'm not gonna lie
the not working very hard thing is pretty sweet. I don’t exactly feel like I’m making a great contribution to society, but so far I’ve been able to sleep ok…
Whatever was written on her hand...
We don’t know, is the point. She’s not saying what was written. So it’s material. Of course it’s silly. That’s point. It’s a joke.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
Then of course we make fun of her.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
i don't think they're really close
writing on your body is something kids do to cheat on tests, teleprompters are used everywhere.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
That's why Gibbs writing...
“Hope” and “Change” on his hand and saying “Sometimes I forget” was hilarious. Completely inappropriate given his job, but hilarious nonetheless.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I doubt the hand notes would have been as big of a deal
If she wasnt criticizing Obama’s use of a teleprompter at the same time.
(also criticizing him for giving speeches and not doing real work by giving a speech while not having a real job. They whole thing was epically hypocritical.)
I don't get how they're at all equivalent.
Writing a few bullet points on your hand is like having a couple of things on a single index card, just there to remind you of a couple of things you wanted to mention. Reading off a teleprompter is saying things you may never have seen before and didn’t write or come up with yourself.
I haven’t gotten around to watching her speech yet, so maybe it’s worse than it sounds, but it still seems like an order of magnitude of difference.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Because it looks like something a 15 year old would do
No disrespect, DC and BSF, but it does.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Okay, I see that.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
I know
That’s exactly why i find it ot be so bad, it’s something that a classmate would do, not a politician.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Heh
Maybe she knows all that and did it intentionally, to make her seem still more ordinary, etc.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
well most 13 year old don't run for office
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
actually, we do run for class president.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
yeah that's the same
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Completely...

I have to watch this movie someday, but my wife has the next 73 movies on our Netflix cue.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Is that Reese Witherspoon?
How old was she?!
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
Since it is a 1999 film
we can assume it was filmed in 1998, and thus she was…22.
And for the record, she sings a lot better than June Carter Cash (to totally change movies) and is a hell of a lot better looking. Just sayin’.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
You know what movie I watched the other day?
Coal Miner’s Daughter.
Slightly tangential.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
amazing film.
amazing.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
It's a favorite in my family
First time I’d watched it in years. Well worth it.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Great film, great actress, great story, great singer.
Portland, Oregan with Jack White of The White Stripes
and my favorite…
Don’t Come Home A-Drinkin’ (With Lovin’ On Your Mind)
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
my favorite Loretta Lynn song is Fist City
I mean, it’s called Fist City.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I still like "Dont' Come Home..." better.
But “Fist Cty” is a classic. Redneck woman fightin’ for her man! I do have a soft spot for classic country, because it reminds me of the lives of so much of my family.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
pretty much all of her songs are awesome
You ain’t woman enough to take my man is another fave, also you’ve just stepped in from stepping out.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
duck: wife-shmife, this is REQUIRED VIEWING for h.s. teachers!
And generally a great film, with much to say beyond the immediate h.s. context, of course.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0126886/ (note the Ebert review, in particular)
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
Reading off a teleprompter is saying things you may never have seen before and didn’t write or come up with yourself.
This is a pretty big exaggeration. I can’t imagine anyone seriously suggesting that Obama’s use of a teleprompter is the first time he’s ever seen the remarks. Having a teleprompter keeps you on pace and helps with narrowly and specifically crafted phrases, but it doesnt allow you just naturally give a speech without rehearsing it first.
The language of major addresses is very carefully chosen and honestly I’d consider it irresponsible to just wing it with some notes written on your hand.
I’m not saying that Obama usually goes into giving major speeches without ever having seen the remarks, and that’s not what I said, either. He doesn’t write his speeches (few presidents ever do), doesn’t come up with most of the content himself (ditto), and probably ends up practicing with draft versions, so there are likely some changes he doesn’t see until they’re on the screen.
And on the latter point: she’s not an elected official, though. I wouldn’t want the president giving a major address off the cuff, but I don’t see anything wrong with winging it when you’re giving a speech to people you know mostly agree with you and want your advice, etc.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Occasionally, fine.
I probably overstated. I’m talking quickly in generalities because I’m responding to way too much at once. But I would imagine that once you become president, it’s much rarer for you to write stuff yourself, and everything’s quadruple-checked.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
no doubt
but that probably makes sense when you’re the leader of the free world. mis-speaking can be costly.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Having been a political speech writer
in a MUCH smaller arena (city mayor of Salisbury), I can tell you, it’s for visual purposes. No one memorizes a 5 minute speech, let alone a 45 minute one.
A teleprompter allows a speaker to keep visual contact with the audience while reading what’s written. Most candidates don’t write their speeches in total (even at a county level), but create an outline, add points, sentences, lines, and edit heavily, and have final approval.
Chances are, s/he has read it out loud a few times in front of a mirror or friends before debuting it live. No way she went out there without something to read from. And given her delivery of the speech, that seems completely true.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
reading off a teleprompter
if you’ve never seen the words before, you’re going to give a pretty bad speech, teleprompter or no.
cxcxcxcxzzzzzzzzz
She's epically hypocritical?
Since when is this news?
My dad and I were talking about Palin and the Couric interview this morning at breakfast.
Couric: So you think women should go to jail if they get an abortion?
Palin: Well, no.
Couric: But you said it should be illegal.
Palin: awkward silence
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
For the record, that’s not hypocrisy. That’s not having thought something through as well as you should have. Hypocrisy would be if she had an abortion, thought it should be illegal, and didn’t think she should have to go to jail for it if it were.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Is hypocrisy...
…calling on the White House Chief of Staff, Rahm Emanuel, to resign over calling lberals “fucking retards” in a closed door meeting at The White House, reported in the WSJ, but absolving Rush Limbaugh of any responsibility for calling the very same people retards on his radio show, referring to very same incident, because it’s “satire”? Is that hypocrisy?
I not sure a talk show host should be held to the same standards as an official representative of the government. And there are plenty of other reasons both sides want both of those people out of there, anyway.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Oh yes. He should.
Maybe if she didn’t reference the incident, it wouldn’t be so bad. But she specifically talked about Rush Limbaugh. If she used that example, of course he should be held to the same standard.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
Considering Limbaugh's remarks were widely broadcasted when Emanuel's were at least somewhat private
I’d say he should be held to an even higher standard
I cannot believe that Rush Limbaugh has been mentioned twice in two days on Camden Chat
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Can we go back to talking about gay bars?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I am all for it.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
He makes an easy target for a lot of things.
/fat joke.
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
This makes no sense to me.
First off, I don’t think Emanuel should resign because of that. I never said I did.
Secondly, what official position does Limbaugh have to resign? None.
Thirdly, what exactly should he be resigning for? The profanity, offending those who are actually retarded, or what?
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
I'm not saying either of them should resign, i didnt think it was that big of deal
I’m just saying to criticize Emanuel for making a comment in private, and totally excusing Limbaugh for the same comment made to millions of people doesn’t make any sense.
We're not talking about your own personal feelings....
…about the remarks.
We’re talking about the hypocrisy about Sarah Palin, who you’ve chosen to defend, who is happy to use a criticize Emanuel for something and demand his resignation but refuses to criticize Limbaugh for the exact same thing. This is a bush league politician and a hypocrite.
hahahaha
This is funny. She actually said what Rush said is OK because she agrees with him that those people are “kooks”!!
Of course it's hypocrisy.
She says she’s anti-abortion, and thinks it should be illegal, but then doesn’t think anyone should go to jail for it. Merriam-Webster definition:
“the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion”
And, by the way, I recited it wrong, the real quote is, in fact, exactly hypocritical:
Representative of the conversation was Palin’s response when Couric asked her a hypothetical question aimed at getting her views on abortion: “If a 15-year-old girl is raped by her father,” Couric asked, “do you believe it should be illegal for her to get an abortion — and why?”
“I am pro-life,” Palin said. “And I am unapologetic in my position that I am pro-life. …Now I would counsel to choose life….”
“But ideally,” Couric persisted, “you think it should be illegal for a girl who was raped or the victim of incest to get an abortion?”
“I’m saying that, personally, I would counsel the person to choose life despite horrific, horrific circumstances that this person would find themselves in. …”
But then she added that she wouldn’t want to see anyone sent to jail for having an abortion.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
That doesn't make any sense
And that’s your point, right?
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Right.
And it’s important that you don’t skip over the last line.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
Still isn't hypocrisy.
Even by that definition you quoted. I’m not making the point to defend Palin in that interview; she flubbed it. I’m making the point because hypocrisy is an overused word which few use correctly these days.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
If it's not hypocrisy
Tell me what is. Enlighten me.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
Hypocrisy is saying one thing in public and doing another in private. Such as, a pastor regularly giving sermons about the importance of marriage having affairs, or a politician vowing to reduce corruption him-/herself being corrupt, or police officers pulling others over for speeding but going 20 mph over the limit themselves.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
how about
• celebrating your daughter for “choosing life”
• then saying that women in the same situation should not be allowed to make the same choice?
that’s not hypocrisy?
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Hm.
I have to admit that, laid out like that, that is. Though I think it’s also completely reasonable to say that the other choice is so wrong that people shouldn’t be allowed to make it. (If you believe it’s essentially murder, I can’t see how you aren’t obligated to believe it should be illegal, frankly.)
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
yes, but then
don’t go on about how your daughter “chose” life. she kept extolling how it was “her daughter’s choice”, and she was “proud of the choice her daughter made”, and that they (she and Todd) hadn’t told her daughter what to do.
yet she thinks that ideally, it shouldn’t be a woman’s choice, and that the government should tell women what to do.
hypocrisy.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
i think hw is retarded.....but i do it anyways
hypocrisy?
by twistedlogic on Feb 10, 2010 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
no,
because you don’t have a choice if you want to finish school. you’re voicing your objections, but then compromising. big difference.
i don’t like to take the garbage out, but i do it because if i don’t, my life becomes miserable.
what would be hypocritical would be if you think homework is retarded and you voiced your objections to it, and then turned around and told your little brother that homework is good for him.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
i have a choice to not do it
i voice my opinion about it all the time….and then end up doing it anyways
by twistedlogic on Feb 10, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
And my favorite
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-october-28-2008/john-mccain-s-air-quotes
Seriously, watch these. That one is relevant around the 2:45 mark.
genius!
best quote, from conventioneer:
Yes, they should have freedom of choice. But that’s different from being pro-choice".
Um…..no. No, it’s actually not.
As it turns out, for all these years, Republicans were just confused about the definition of the word “pro”.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Can’t you still be proud of your kid for doing the right thing, though, even if the wrong thing is illegal? Kids have a choice whether or not to drink underage; can’t a parent be proud of his/her kid for not doing so?
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
sure
my point is, they kept saying
“we didn’t tell her what to do—she decided for herself without us”
while at the same time saying,
“nobody should be allowed to decide what to do; they should be told”
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
because legally, she couldnt tell her what to do
by twistedlogic on Feb 10, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
no,
legally she could tell her what to do. she can give her daughter an opinion, although she’s strangely proud of not offering her daughter any counsel: if it were me, i’d want to my parents to give me some advice.
but she couldn’t force her daughter to do something. which is exactly what she’s advocating for.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
And speaking of hypocricy.,..
The Party of No has no problem taking stimulus money for their individual districts.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
YES. THIS.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
completely different issues
killing your own baby is a lot different than killing a murderer or an enemy to your country.
by twistedlogic on Feb 10, 2010 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
Read The Innocent Man by John Grisham.
which refers to the post below. It might make you think about the death penalty a bit.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
*O'sFan21's post ABOVE mine
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
i have read that
i never said i was pro-death penalty. i just said they werent the same thing.
by twistedlogic on Feb 10, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Except they pretty much are.
Here:
Do you know who the uni-bomber is? Ted Kaczynski. How does this relate? One of my best friends happens to be his brother, Dave. If you don’t know the story, Ted was criminally insane. Dave eventually figured out his brother was the uni-bomber and turned him into the police. The courts were going to give him the death penalty until Dave negotiated a deal to give him life without parole.
You know what they did? They almost backed out on the deal. I don’t remember exactly how Dave got them to stay true, but think about it: they weren’t going to listen to the desperate brother of a mentally ill man who had to turn his own brother into the police. They did, but just think about it. The courts aren’t right a lot of the time.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
*best family friends
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
You guys
I know you all keep it together here much better than a lot of sites, but can we please tread carefully on these topics? Please please please.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I think we're doing great so far
I mean, no one’s broken out in to a drunken O’sFan21 profanity-laden tirade. Which I would find immensely amusing, personally.
And when we’re arguing about Hernadez in the bullpen or in Norfolk in a month, no one’s gonna remember who’s pro-life and who’s pro-choice.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Exactly....
….except when death is something that can be used to rile people up into war mode, reaping the political gains, and spend billions of dollars on to defense contractors.
That, too.
You can’t call yourself “pro-LIFE” is you’re not against killing anything? The Catholics have it partly straight, they’re anti death penalty as well as anti-abortion. Not sure about anti-war.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
Not so much..
I don’t recall a bishop ever withholding communion because a Republican politician was pro-death penalty.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
We had a speaker come in
last year in Ethical Dilemmas class. Her daughter was tortured and murdered by two monsters. She’s Catholic and she stopped the state from giving them the death penalty because Catholics are at least supposed to be anti-death penalty.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
So why not take action on it
the way they do with Dems who are pro-choice? Seems a bit hypocritical to me.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Supposedly
they claim to not be single issue or single party voters…
You’re definitely right though that it doesn’t seem that way.
but thats how its been defined
the issues are completely separate if you want them to be and one the same if you want them to be. its all a matter of how you phrase it.
by twistedlogic on Feb 10, 2010 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm....
No, it’s not. Think about what Couric asked her: incestuous rape, is that your baby?
Plus, here’s a question: Do you think a fertilized egg is a baby? So you think it’s wrong if a woman “kills” a fertilized egg?
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
thats only one example
there are a crapton of ppl getting abortions for reasons other than incestuous rape. i know two myself.
by twistedlogic on Feb 10, 2010 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Well Roe v. Wade
already protects rape victims. Palin wants to get rid of that.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
pro choice is not the same as pro abortion
something the RIght always conveniently overlooks.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
oops I guess I should read the entire thread before posting my comments.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
And Bush wasn't?
And Reagan, and H.W. Bush, and Nixon? They all spoke extemporaneously, right? :)
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Point taken.
I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with presidents using teleprompters, either. Just that if they’re going to make fun of Palin, this is a particularly dumb way to do it.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Well, we do have so many other areas from which to choose....
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
No, it's not...
the woman can’t remember three simple things. Two of which are top GOP priorities which they repeat ad nauseum in every single public utterance – tax cuts and energy.
he's not famously reliant on it
he’s “famous for using teleprompters” only on right wing propaganda machines such as fox news and rush limbaugh.
the rest of the country, those of us who actually think for ourselves, have noticed that all presidents use teleprompters when giving speeches (reagan turned it into an art form), and have witnessed innumerable press conferences where obama answers questions off the cuff intelligently and with no prompter. something some other presidents were incapable of.
he most recently displayed his command of details when he took the republicans to school at their own caucus a week or so ago, and spoke for nearly two hours with no notes, no prompter, nothin’ but his brain, and demonstrated far more grasp on the issues than did the guys who were questioning him.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Fair enough.
Though I’m personally of the persuasion that regardless of how well he’s able to perform in press conferences, Obama’s grasp on the issues is questionable at best. But that’s getting into mere opinion, and I’m discovering quickly why I never wanted to get into politics on CC, ‘cause I can’t really respond to six people at once effectively. :P
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Though I’m personally of the persuasion that regardless of how well he’s able to perform in press conferences, Obama’s grasp on the issues is questionable at best.
I’m not sure what makes you believe this—the dude is one of the smartest, most capable people to hold the job in a long time, and goes out of his way to listen to all sides—but you’re certainly entitled to your opinion.
And now, back to discussing Garret Atkins.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Than Garrett Atkins?
I hope so, because her best days as a 1B are clearly over at age 45.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I almost always stay away from the political discussions on here
But i have a major paper that i need to be writing, and this is much more interesting.
Topic please, and page requirement
Let’s help a brother out, CC.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
25 pages
Discussing why an economic theory of copyright requires a reduction in duration coupled with an expansion of fair use rights in order to rebalance incentives for creation with the public’s right of access.
If anyone happens to have article succinctly explaining the economic justification of fair use, i’d love to see it.
well, for starters....
Fair Use Worth More to Economy Than Copyright, CCIA Says
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
of course, IN MY DAY
we didn’t have teh Google for papers.
And we had to walk to school; in the dark!
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Carrying a load of coal on our backs...
I tried to explain the concept of a card catalog in a library to my kids. You know, the old setup with 3 sets of skinny file drawers for author, title and subject? She thought I was kidding.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
ahahhah
oh man the card catalog.
My car has manual windows in the back seat and once my niece was back there and she says, “Can I roll down the window?” I said sure, then there is a moment of silence and she says, “……how? where’s the button?”
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I've spent probably 10-15 hours a week in a library for the past 18 months
I think i’ve yet to touch a library book.
And really, why bother
My school had a shitty selection anyway, and they subscribed to a bunch of databases (though not nearly as many as I would have liked). Databases are a godsend for cheap schools with crappy libraries.
Meet your new best friend
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archive
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
re:
The President can walk into a room filled with the House GOP Caucus here in Baltimore. Take an hour’s worth of questions from the most hostile audience imaginable and SCHOOL them on policy – to the point where Fox News cuts away midway through because they know their side is getting their ass kicked and GOP House Staffers are confiding in newsmen that allowing cameras into the Q&A was a “big mistake”. But somehow the President has a “questionable” grasp on the issues.
Why I do get the feeling that nothing Obama does would be good enough for you?
He may know a lot of the facts, but I believe he comes to conclusions that are the opposite of those he should reach. Thus, my saying that his grasp of the issues is questionable.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
The opposite of those YOU would reach
There’s a difference.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
well, another possibility
is that he has tremendous grasp of the issues and just has a different philosophy from you. .
both Adams and Jefferson knew everything there was to know about this country at its birth. I mean, EVERYTHING. Complete grasp of the issues.
And they had virtually opposite solutions for solving its problems.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
The conclusions
have been fine. As OF21 notes below, virtually every serious economist and policy expert in this country, without a horse in the conservative blame game, has given positive opinions of the policies he’s trying to enact. The major criticism serious people have had about his policies is that they don’t go far enough or are too watered down trying (fruitlessly) to being Republicans on board. The GOP has become the obstructionist Party of No however, without any serious ideas of its own and a hellbent filibuster laden furor to block any and everything the President does.
This is just not true.
Either you’re saying there are no pro-Hayekian/anti-Keynesian economists, or that they’re all either unserious or corrupt.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Very few
people take them seriously when it comes to recessionary economic policy. That is a fact. Particularly after watching Japan fuck around throughout the 90’s when they should have been doing hardcore Keynesian stimulus to perk their economy back up. They lost 10 years. Were you willing to lose a decade here while the market “sorted things out”?
Spending tons of money we don’t have is not a good idea, and a lot of people think so. Japan has a lot of issues we don’t which makes things even worse for them; their level of corporatism is obscene. And there’s plenty of evidence that Keynesian-style stimulus is bad; more stuff comes out all the time about how the New Deal actually prolonged the Great Depression, for instance. Though I’d imagine you’d consider that fringe stuff (and no, that’s not intended to be snide or a back-handed attack).
But, on the whole, I’m frankly fine with agreeing to disagree. I come here to read/talk baseball, but there’s “haha, look at the dumb conservatives” stuff in the Open Threads often enough that it starts to wear on me after a while. And over the internet, it’s hard to have a real debate with anyone, especially when you’re operating from different premises about the role of government.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
I’ll just add that I’m generally a pro-Keynesian, and from what I understand, the academic literature,does not show conclusive support for it in terms of reviving recessions. Like most issues subject to academic debate, the degree to which it is effective is pretty heavily contested.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Look, I have plenty of friends who are professors. I’m just passing along what they tell me. Personally, like I already said, I’m on board with Joseph Stlglitz model of economic revitalization, but, at the same time, I’m willing to the acknowledge that an legitimate, oppositional view point exists.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
Again
give me a break. There’s debate on every area of academics, that’s the way it’s set up. The international consensus on stimulus packages by governments the world over going back to at least the Great Depression still holds, and for good reason.
Just passing along the facts man… at least in terms of characterizing the academic side of the debate. Certainly the international consensus on stimulus packages by foreign governments is a different group.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
At least you're open to new ideas
I always admired your healthy sense of skepticism and your ability to have an open mind and see all sides of an issue.
I would think the reason is because they give the governments more money and power, frankly.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
How does government spending
give the governments more money and power? By paying their citizens to do work? I don’t see how that results in more money and power. If anything it results in the government having LESS money. Maybe I’m confused about what you’re saying.
They have to collect more money in order to spend more money. They have to have additional government workers to administer the programs, and if the jobs are government jobs rather than private sector ones, that’s still more government workers. And it increases the extent to which government is in control of things instead of them being left alone for private citizens to do. Which is turn makes more people reliant and dependent on the government, which increases its influence and power.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Maybe in some circumstances
but right now we are borrowing money rather than raising taxes to cover the increased government spending…you know…hence the deficit rising??
And as far as additional government workers – that’s part of the stimulus! Creating jobs for those that don’t have any.
Sure the government might grow slightly and more people would be dependent on it for a paycheck, but isn’t that better than those people not having a pay check?? Government workers pay taxes too of course.
Influence and power over what exactly? Infrastructure repair???
Right, so instead, we’re becoming more dependent on the Chinese government. Which is even worse than our own government just getting bloated. We may not have to pay for it now, but we will later, and no one’s going to like the tax increases or domestic program cuts it’ll take to pay that back.
And sure, government workers pay taxes, too. So government only takes 65% of their salaries from the private sector instead of the whole thing.
Influence and power over ordinary people’s lives, basically. Look, if you work for the government and want to keep your job, you’re probably going to be against tax cuts and program reductions, because your job might be the next to be cut. So you’re going to vote for the people that want to keep government the size it currently is or expand it.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
That's life
When you’re waging two wars, spending money like water on counter-terrorism, and paying for medicare/medicaid/social security you are going to have to pay higher taxes. So, if you don’t want long-term deficits there are really only two options: raise taxes dramatically which would actually lead to a longer recession and a bigger deficit so that won’t work, or borrow money and spend money to get us out of the recession as fast as possible and then raise taxes a little when production/activity returns to normal/
Also
this idea of “them being left alone for private citizens to do” is so silly. The whole point of government spending in a recession is to make up for spending that the private sector isn’t doing. That’s fundamentally what a recession is and the idea that you could leave it alone and let the private sector do what it specifically isn’t doing that caused the recession to end a recession is frankly absurd.
I think the whole problem is the idea that when the economy has a downturn, the government has to jump up and fix it. It just doesn’t make much sense to me. There are going to be peaks and valleys in any economy that isn’t 100% state-managed. Government isn’t responsible for the good times, the private sector is. And especially when government is responsible for the bad times, I think it needs to learn to keep out of it.
Of course, nobody’s going to elect a politician who tells people to suck it up.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
You still haven't explained the alternative.
Here again are the basics or a recession: decreased consumer spending which leads to job losses which leads to further decreased consumer spending. How exactly is the private sector going to fix that cycle?
And also this idea that the government is responsible for the bad times is just crazy.
Right
suck it up and everyone without a job can fuck off with 20% unemployment for 10 years. Sounds like a good way to expand the 2nd or 3rd world into the US. Brilliant plan.
That is fringe stuff...
…given a remarkable amount of traction by the MSM recently. Economic stimulus packages work. That’s why every government on earth does them when their economies hit a recession. Unfortunately we have an opposition party so desperate for a clear voice that would let them off the political mat that we have endure yet another rudimentary public debate over settled matters of economic fact. Adding to that we get to laughably hear about deficits from a political party that has been borrowing like a drunken sailor since the 1980’s to pay for tax cuts without having to cut social services or the defense budget.
The problem in this country is that we are constantly debating the role of government. For the dyed in the wool conservative true believer, these debates are a matter of ideology, which in and of itself is not a bad thing. The trouble is though that the neverending debate in reality as practiced by the GOP is nothing more than a straw man to allow those with wealth and power to basically do whatever they want. And we’re reaching a point where that much freedom in the private sector is completely draining the middle class and driving the country off a cliff. The debates we should be having are about how government can work as effectively as possible, not whether is should have any power whatsoever. That debate was decided a long time ago and our competitors around the world are moving forward, not mired in these silly counterproductive debates that have hamstrung us as a nation.
But just from a practical standpoint, how exactly would we come out of the recession OR cut the deficit using GOP-favored economics? More tax cuts would further decrease government revenue and cutting government spending would result in more jobs lost, less loans being given, less businesses hiring and being started all of which further reduce tax revenues further reducing government revenue and leading to further deficit. So how exactly would it work?
The New Deal was not just government stimulus economics and if anything the lesson of the great depression was that there wasn’t ENOUGH government spending since it was the massive government spending associated with the war that finally pulled us out of the great depression.
The thing is, government itself can’t make money, by definition. All government revenues come from taxing the parts of the economy that actually create profit. The more government does, the more it needs in taxes, which means the private sector has to pick up the slack. So by funneling more money to the government, you make it harder for the private sector to hire as many workers or pay them as well. To a large extent, it doesn’t matter what the government does with the money afterward, because money’s being lost just to pay the government workers who handle administration of whatever the stimulus program is.
The real problem is that the time to start being worried is when a sector of the economy seems to be growing more than it should. And considering that the whole housing crisis was largely created by government telling banks to make risky loans to people who couldn’t really afford to pay them back…
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
You can't cut your way out of a recession
Macro economics just doesn’t work that way.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Ahhh
Dude if it was just taxing then we wouldn’t have a deficit! I think you’re confusing some very basic things here. Taxing and borrowing are NOT the same thing. Will taxes eventually have to be raised to pay back what we are borrowing? Sure, but they would have anyway due to the massive deficits run up during the previous administration (by cutting taxes during multiple wars for the first time in history for one). The point of deficit spending is so that you shorten the recession and spur enough economic activity that increased tax revenues simply from increased production and wages will raise tax revenue without having to actually raise tax rates as much as you would have to otherwise.
As for the housing bubble being the governments fault that’s another totally simplistic view. While they certainly did encourage risky loans and home ownership for folks who probably shouldn’t have considered it, they weren’t the ones securitizing those loans, putting quality stamps on them and peddling them as safe investments when they knew they weren’t, and then packaging them with CDOs to be sold as safeguards against defaults. If it was just the loans that shouldn’t have been made the only people hurting would be the lenders and the borrowers.
I do get how it’s supposed to work and that there is a difference between raising taxes and borrowing. But if you’re deficit spending, you’re going to have to pay it back sometime, regardless of where the money comes from, no? Hence, I’m against it in general. Especially when there’s already a large deficit and people think the solution is to spend even more.
Personally, I think the federal government needs to be gutted; about half of the major departments shouldn’t exist to begin with and should be abolished. Seems like that would be a quick way to reduce the deficit. So I’m not really one of those people who wants to have it both ways (which, yes, was absurd in the Bush years).
And on the housing thing, yeah, the financial industries made things worse. But it’s my understanding that banks were essentially required by the government to make those loans, and then the private sector had to figure out what the heck to do with them. And then the government stepped in again to bail everybody out of the mess it created, blowing up the deficit. So I hope my skepticism seems at least reasonable.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
You pay the money back
when economic production returns which raises tax revenues without raising tax rates. It’s pretty simple.
Reagan gutted the federal government – that worked out well…
And if you gut the federal government during a recession where are all those government workers going to go for jobs? Who’s going to make up for their lost tax revenue? Who’s going to make up for their lost consumer spending??? It’s an absolutely ludicrous suggestion.
On the housing thing, the financial sector didn’t just “make things worse” they made them structurally damaging to our economy. Otherwise it would have just been a ripple. And it would have been REALLY interesting to see what would have happened if they didn’t step in and bail everybody out – you think 10% unemployment is bad. And as far as deficits go, losing all the tax revenue from all those employees and all the employees of all the businesses that those companies finance and all the companies who depend on those employees for consumer spending. lol Seriously…
And if you gut the federal government during a recession where are all those government workers going to go for jobs? Who’s going to make up for their lost tax revenue?
Government doesn’t make anything off of its own workers. If it pays them $40,000 in other people’s money and gets $15,000 back in taxes, it’s still spending $25,000 on them that it has to take from the productive sectors.
Look, I get that the government has to be involved in the economy in modern society. I’d rather it stick to tweaking interest rates and creating tax incentives, but I’m not saying that all forms of short-term stimulus are bad. The problem is that they’re rarely short-term, because they involve the creation of more government programs — which the new government workers want to keep and which other people want to keep because they get more out of it than they pay in.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
You're not following
All those government employees buy stuff right? Companies make money off of them buying stuff and are able to pay their employees. Those companies pay taxes on their profits and their employees pay taxes on their income and then they go out and buy more stuff and the cycle continues. If you lose 100k jobs you lose much more than those 100,000 people’s income taxes, you lose their spending, which leads to more job losses which leads to lower spending which all leads to deficits. That’s the point!
So
the point of government stimulus spending is to interrupt that cycle and create consumer spending where there otherwise wouldn’t be any. If the consequence of that is to gain a few extra government jobs I think it’s worth it to end a recession 2 or 4 or 8 years sooner than we otherwise would. I also think you’re making an exaggerated generalization about government growing when it does stimulus spending. A whole lot of the government jobs (particularly the ones that oversee the actual spending – project managers) are contract employees.
Okay, again. I’m not completely against all stimulus spending. And I am not by any means an expert on all the particulars about it — I get how it’s supposed to work, and I see why it makes sense, but I also know that plenty of studied people see it as unsustainable. I figure it’s best to be somewhere in between — stimulus can be a shot in the arm, but to a large extent, yes, recessions do have to work themselves out.
The thing that seems to be forgotten here is that prices are not fixed. If people can’t afford to pay for stuff, demand drops, and yes, companies will lay off employees, but they’ll also have to drop prices on their products and services. That makes them more affordable, which will eventually increase demand, and companies will then need to produce more, which involves hiring more workers again.
Economies are cycles, no matter how much the government does, unless they control the economy 100% and there’s never any growth. When government promises to fix every recession, it’s risky, because you can only do so much to make the valleys less deep without cutting down the peaks as well.
The alternative is to watch carefully for when the peaks seem unsustainable and try to brace for the inevitable downturn. But nobody wants to do that anymore in this day and age, because that would involve less debt and more saving, and nobody’s going to elect a politician that tells you that no, you really should wait a few more months to get that HDTV or Mercedes.
About having more government workers: does government actually make a net profit per government worker? Okay, sure, government workers have money to buy stuff. Let’s assume that, using the above example, somebody has a $40k salary, pays $15k in taxes, and then government gets another $5k or even $10 in taxes from that person spending the remaining $25k on stuff. There’s still about half of his salary that has to come from elsewhere.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Of course it's unsustainable
Nobody is proposing that the increased government spending be made permanent – that’s exactly the point of it: a temporary shot in the arm to get the economy back on its feet. Pretty much all economic evidence over the last 100 years shows that recessions left to their own devices take dramatically longer to work themselves out which again means longer periods of higher unemployment and bigger deficits.
Prices for most consumer products are based on company expenses – we aren’t talking about luxury goods here with high markups. Prices have been dropping for years on many non-essentials, but those companies are still forced to lay off staff. Also lowering prices doesn’t make goods more affordable for the unemployed. Unemployed people don’t buy anything except essentials. Price cutting to get out of a recession is fantasy.
Again the point of government recession spending is not to “control the economy” but to control the damage. Once the economy recovers you back off and it has zero impact on the peaks. But practically speaking almost all economists agree that something should be done to limit the bubbles (which would limit the peaks) and create a more stable and steady economy. The private sector surely isn’t going to limit itself.
The ripple effect of every person’s spending is so dramatic not to mention that government workers ARE doing jobs that currently need to be done. There are very few government agencies that you could just do away with that would be immediately picked up by a private company or that society could just do without whatever service they are providing. Reading your comments it’s really seeming like you think there are massive government office buildings filled with people clocking in at 9 AM and just twiddling their thumbs until they clock out at 5 PM and collecting their plush government pay checks and benefits.
Paragraph 1: Okay, I don’t really have a problem with that. However, I think the point still stands that plenty of “temporary” government jobs and programs become permanent, so you have to be careful just how much stimulus you do.
Paragraph 2: I know unemployed people can’t pay for goods. But, seriously, if we “need” government stimulus to get out of recessions, how did it all work before, say, 1925?
Paragraph 3: But stimulus doesn’t limit the bubbles. Keynesian stimulus waits until things start to fall off the cliff, then throws a bunch of stuff at it once it’s already bad.
Paragraph 4: This is not intended as an insult, but if you really think most government workers are doing jobs that need to be done, it’s no wonder we can’t seem to agree on anything else.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
How did work before 1925?
Recessions lasted 5-10 years instead of 1-2. That’s how.
No stimulus doesn’t limit the bubbles at all – I was making the point that stimulus doesn’t control the economy. Then I went on to say that lost of economists think that government should do more to control the economy on the upswing.
Paragraph 4: This is not intended as an insult, but if you really think most government workers are doing jobs that need to be done, it’s no wonder we can’t seem to agree on anything else.
Sorry but this one is incredibly ignorant and offensive. Are there government workers who slide by while doing the bare minimum? Sure, but there are in any business (there certainly are at my company), but the majority of government jobs are currently essential and occupied by people who care about doing them. I think the problem is exactly the opposite – that people on the right are too busy condemning government and insulting the people who work in it to keep our country safe and functioning without really knowing anything about how government actually works.
And the recessions at the time were less severe for the average Joe, I imagine, since people saved more and didn’t spend as much on stuff they didn’t need or have as much debt.
I just got a job working for the Army less than a month ago, both of my parents work at government agencies, and my mom’s two siblings are teachers. So I’ve seen plenty of government waste, redundancy, and paperwork to certify other paperwork.
And that’s nothing against the individuals — that’s against the unnecessary work they’re doing, whether it’s endless politically correct training seminars, or daily email warnings about being careful in the snow, or three different departments having to approve the same thing because they each have slightly different ways of doing it.
And that’s just inefficiencies within departments that are necessary. We’d save plenty by abolishing the Department of Education, for instance.
But, really, I did mean it when I said I’d much rather talk baseball. I’d rather not spend the rest of the day debating politics on the internet.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
haha
No! They were much worse for the average Joe, since there weren’t government services like unemployment, social security, medicare/caid, etc. So, when a recession hit and people were too old to work and being supported by their children working, when their kids lost their jobs that’s pretty much all they had for a safety net. So it was soup kitchens, bread lines, and bust.
Your personal experience is just that and given your point of view on this matter I’d guess that pretty much all you’ve seen and been told has been heavily tinted with this “government is bad” bias.
I don’t think most recessions actually mattered much to most people, though. How often do you hear about massive economic swings pre-Great Depression? Almost never. The average Joe working on his farm didn’t really care whether or not he had a lot of extra cash.
And first you say I don’t know how government actually works, then when I point out that I’ve personally seen inefficiency in lots of different government agencies (and have read about plenty of others), then I’ve only seen the bad parts?
Regardless, as I said, I don’t want to spend all day doing this. I don’t want to look like I just ran away or something, either, though.
I guess what I want to know is this: do you think it’s completely ridiculous to think that, in general, we should have less government, lower taxes, and more encouragement of private industry? And I mean really private, not lots of bloated big businesses getting in bed with government. Because honestly, I get the feeling that a lot of people here think that anyone who is conservative, whether economically or socially, is some combination of ignorant, stupid, and evil. Which I think is ridiculous.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
I generally don't have the expertise or knowledge to argue these things
So I don’t, but I’m pretty close to your position. In 2008, I spent ten days in Iowa stumping for Ron Paul and consider myself a libertarian/small-c conservative. But then you gotta remember that this is Maryland, so the liberal viewpoint is probably going to be over-represented, but we come from a wide range of political viewpoints and beliefs.
It's fine to have differing opinions
but as many people have pointed out, when those opinions conflict with widely accepted economic policy it starts to get a little ridiculous.
Nah
No one really knows what works because nothing can ever be enacted without tremendous compromises. And thus far, that has perpetuated a status quo and it’s been fine.
And being “widely accepted” really has no bearing on truth or effectiveness. For a long time, it was widely accepted that the Earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the Earth and blah blah blah. As we become more sophisticated as a people, paradigms will shift and fall out of favor and new ways of thinking will become common, and then once those who have a stake in that paradigm die out, a new one will replace it ad infinitum.
Things that are “widely accepted” are usually that way because careers are based on that way of thinking, and to recognize that an entire paradigm that you spent your life’s work on (not to mention that you may be benefiting financially from) could possibly be wrong – it’s hard on the ego.
So I find it best to have a healthy sense of skepticism towards anything seen as “widely accepted.”
by PhilR8 on Feb 10, 2010 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well
except that we see what happened in recessions pre-Keynes and what happened in recessions post-keynes, so we do know what happens. That’s why these economic policies are so widely accepted – because they have worked in tons of instances over long periods of time for lots of different countries facing lots of different types of recessions. The alternatives being proposed, on the other hand, have worked almost never.
oh dude
Are you just talking out of your ass right now? In any basic college US history course a significant amount of time is spent studying the turbulent economic times from the end of the Civil War through the panics of the early 1900s. I have no clue what you mean about average people not caring about them – they had foreclosures, agricultural shutdowns, manufacturing slumps – all resulting in job losses, homelessness, poverty, hunger. The Average Joe on his farm didn’t care if he had a lot of cash, but he damn well cared when he had nobody to buy his products and not enough money to feed his family or his livestock. Jesus…
And what I said was that knowing people who work in government and hearing stories of waste is not even remotely close to understanding how government works and functions. When you spew things like “We could eliminate half of all government agencies and the country would be just fine” I’m sorry but there’s no other assumption once can make but that you don’t understand.
No I don’t think that’s a ridiculous point of view in general (although I certainly don’t agree with it and think it’s pretty close to trickle down economics which obviously doesn’t work), but to suggest that the middle of a recession is the time to start instituting it after your party was in power for 8 years and could have taken a shot at it, but instead just grew the government and the deficit the entire time is pretty damn absurd.
Okay, you’re right. I had a total brainfart about the Reconstruction era — I’m an engineer and haven’t had much U.S. history in a while. Sorry. But if you’re a farmer, your family can probably still eat.
And I maintain there’s plenty of government we could get rid of. We don’t need the Department of Education, or certainly not one of its current size or budget, for example. But I guess that depends on what you think the federal government needs to do — a point on which we clearly disagree.
And I am incredibly sick of what the GOP did during the Bush years being thrown in the faces of actual conservatives. I am a conservative, not some Republican die-hard, and I have not once defended Bush-era domestic policies, which indeed made the present problems worse. Practically the only thing they did right was to prevent any more terror attacks on U.S. soil.
The only reason I started arguing/debating anything to begin with is that you and Jonny Pops like throwing around words and phrases like “obvious” or “widely accepted” about things which, in my experience, aren’t. Maybe in MD, as PhilR8 points out, but if all these things are so obvious and widely accepted, why is the country about 50/50 divided every election?
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
haha
Sure if you’re an alfalfa farmer your family can eat as much alfalfa as their little hearts desire. Problem solved!
Sure there are parts of the government that we probably don’t need (I’ll add that Bush grew the DOE to it’s current size), but we can’t just cut jobs willy nilly in a recession – government jobs or otherwise. We need every single employed person to stay employed. Sometime down the road where there are private sector jobs for those people to get? Sure then we could explore downsizing.
If you’re going to spout GOP ideas you’re going to be confronted with their failures – sorry about that. Just the way it is.
As far as economic policy – those ARE widely accepted theories EVERYWHERE not just in liberal elitist maryland, but all over the world.
I would posit that the country is divided 50/50 because a huge amount of people have no understanding of economics at all and because the GOP has done an incredible job of getting poor white people to vote against their economic interests by scaring them with social issues that have zero impact on their lives.
Right, as I’ve said several times now, I’m not saying that we should cut a bunch of government jobs now and that’ll solve the problem. I’m glad you agree that we could explore downsizing at some point later, though.
But, no, I’m not spouting GOP ideas and being confronted with their failures. I’m saying that the GOP did not act according to conservative principles during the Bush years, and that it was essentially like having a centrist or left-of-center majority with a liberal minority for eight years, as far as domestic policy went. GOP != conservative all the time, just as Democrats != liberal all the time.
And your last sentence is pretty depressing. You seem to be saying that most conservatives are just stupid and have been duped into voting against their own interests. That they don’t know what’s good for them. Maybe a lot of people just don’t want to be taken care of the government and would rather just be left alone?
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
They say that...
they want to be left alone, but do they really?
No police, no fire departments, no FDA to protect food and drugs, no Postal service, no Department of Defense, no Coast Guard to rescue people, no national parks, no FAA or air traffic controllers, no free public schools (keyword: FREE), no NASA, no Interstate Highway system, no immigration control of any kind, no health inspectors, building inspectors, no public universities, no Small Business Administration, no FDIC, no SEC? Really?
Do people REALLY want to be left alone? I don’t want to live in a country without ANY of those governmental functions, personally.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Who needs all of that?
And let’s go back in time and prevent government from meddling in things like computer technology and satellite technology and healthcare so that we can go back to not having computers, cell phones, and we can continue getting polio!
You can want less government without being a near-anarchist.
Lots of people would be fine with getting rid of at least a couple of those. And you’re not listing a lot of the ones that people actually talk about getting rid of.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Which ones would you dismantle?
That’s my favorite conservative tactic:
Politician: Cut Spending!
Critic: Great, on what?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I think the Department of Education and the IRS would be a good start.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
A handful of people could handle a vastly simplified tax code.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Corporations don't want a simpler tax code
They want a tax code they can manipulate. Abolishing the IRS is a pipe dream. The corporatists in government won’t ever let that happen.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Finally something I agree with
Removing special interests from government is impossible in the current state of our country. But that shouldn’t limit a discussion on what should be done, though.
And we're back to More vs Machiavelli
Do you strive for the perfect or deal in the flawed reality of now?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Yeah, I know. Government and business get along a lot better than the usual narrative implies. But, really, it seems like any specific proposals for slimming down government are immediately dismissed as pipe dreams or what have you, when really, get enough popular support and it could at least be tried.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
And I'd ask for specifics
What needs to be cut?
And I have a fundamental distrust of the free market regulating itself in any meaningful way. For centuries, it’s been proven there is not economic interest in restraining trade, even trade that can kill its intended customers. Thalidomide would still be sold had it not been for government regulatory action.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
continued....
Politician: On waste!
Critic: Like what?
Politician: Spending we don’t need!
Critic: Like what!
Politician: Social programs!
Critic: But that’s less than 25% of the discretionary budget. What about the military?
Politician: (silence….)
In 2003, means-tested social programs made of 6% of the budget. What else goes?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
True libertarians understand the need for some government
to preserve order, enforce contracts, protect civil liberties (like your right to not be killed by someone else), uphold justice, and maintain a force for national defense.
Without limited government, civilization would be impossible. Many confuse libertarians and conservatives as anarchists, but that’s just not the case.
Aside from the above functions, though – organizations like Underwriters Laboratory would take the place of government functions. Or so I’d hope. We’ll never find out, but that’s what would be expected.
I think
The parts of government that could even theoretically be dismantled and handed over to the private sector are a tiny portion of government spending.
And I think you’re talking about pretty moderate libertarians. I think a good amount of them have much more radical views than that (abolishing the military and what not).
No
Abolishing the overseas imperial military empire – yes. That’d be a large and welcome budget cut.
And as someone who is registered as a Libertarian (in Maryland I’m "Other – Libertarian) and reads libertarian and true conservative literature from time to time, you’re wrong about what you think a libertarian is.
What
part of the military do you want to cut???
So NO libertarians at all feel that way?? Just because you don’t and the literature YOU read doesn’t, doesn’t mean that there aren’t tons of whackos out there calling themselves libertarians.
I just told you
Please, we’re back on equal footing and I don’t want to ruin that, so I’ll just put it in a sentence on it’s own line so you can read it again:
The overseas military empire of the US – bases in Europe, Japan, Korea, the Middle East, etc – close them. Bring the troops home. Keep a sufficient force for national defense, cut loose the rest.
This would be a large and welcome budget cut.
Are they part of the military?
Peace, commerce and honest friendship with relations with all nations, entangling alliances with none. Even the most revolutionary of Americans believes in the power of diplomacy.
No I was
just naming other things that help us out militarily, diplomatically, and economically around the world that we could dismantle.
I don't believe any of this.
I believe government is a primarily an agent of good and shouldn’t be slimmed down for slimming down’s sake. I don’t think closing bases or embassies is a good idea.
Still not sure why you said close the embassies
unless it was a deliberate fiction used to discredit my argument. Not sure why else it would come out of the blue like that when no one had mentioned it in this vast, sprawling thread.
And I really find it interesting that you, a passionate liberal (not an insult, I think you can be accurately and fairly described as such) can justify the existence of our overseas military presence. It is an irony I find humorous.
Umm
I don’t know man. You were originally advocating against stimulus spending and instead cutting taxes and government – those are GOP ideas if I’ve ever heard them. Reagan tried to do it, Bush 1 tried to do it, and W tried to do it – all with awful results.
No I’m not saying at all that most conservatives are stupid. I think socially conservatives who would benefit from liberal fiscal policies have gotten duped into voting GOP against their economic interests out of fear of gays and immigrants and Jews and other minorities.
So now are they bigots instead of stupid?
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
There was a much
smaller middle class before Roosevelt’s reforms, so yes working Joe’s had little spending cash. Since Reagan and the downsizing of government we’ve been on a road straight back to that, with a drained middle class and a social strata more closely resembling that of that of Mexico on the horizon, rather than the large middle class we grew up with.
I’m a strong proponent of the middle class and I’m not naive enough to think it happened all by itself. It takes strong regulations and a government willing to do what’s necessary for the common good in order for the middle class to thrive, since the average person does not have the capital, time or skill set to protect his own interests versus those with more money and power.
If I actually heard some conservative ideas that I thought would benefit the middle class I would be all for it. But I don’t. I hear straw man arguments. Outright fictions like this bunk you’re peddling about the government forcing banks to make bad loans. Platitudes about “freedom”. And he said-she said politicians like Sarah Palin. Oh and lots of Nos and filibusters rather than addressing problems.
Right
And ever since the foolish regeanomics/voodoo exonomics took hold (and how it’s continued to take hold when reality has continually proved it ineffective I have no idea) we’ve seen a skyrocketing gap between the top and the bottom and slow slide of the middle towards the bottom.
Another I problem I have is this idea that government is inherently bad private enterprise or slows private sector development. Where do conservatives think we would be if not for the GIGANTIC investment government made in the computer industry or satellite technology or life sciences? No microsoft, no apple, no SAP, no cell phones, hugely profitable pharma/biotech companies, etc. I never understand the arguments against government investment in things like green technology because they are too far off from being effective – where do people think the computer industry started? It’s so silly.
Before the Great Depression?
Do some research on the Panics of the 1800s. They were often, severe, and led to death by starvation of thousands. The Panic of 1837 almost bankrupted the country.
Seriously, do a little research on this before you start talking about pre-Great Depression economics.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Yeah
Like I said, sorry, I was wrong there. This is one of the reasons I usually stay out of these discussions — when there are three posts by other people for every one I can try to think through before posting, it’s hard not to make mistakes and thus look stupid. Or more stupid, depending on your point of view.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
No, you're not stupid
Far from it. There are just certain logical lapses in current conservative thinking that need to be addressed.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
But they won't be addressed
because they can just throw up their hands and call it socialism and everybody forgets that they aren’t basing their argument on facts.
These sorts of comments really don’t do anything useful. And I’ve said before, I only said anything at all because I was hoping that you and others really didn’t think that conservatives were all irrational, stupid, or whatever.
Can we go back to debating baseball, now that I know I don’t want to ever comment on anything political here again?
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
by Vuff on Feb 10, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right they don't do anything useful
so why does the GOP keep spouting them instead of having actual substantive debates?
The rational conservatives that you’re attempting to describe do not currently exist in the political discourse. I wish they would.
So what is, say, National Review, in your opinion?
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
So why is it when I say basically what they have been about the subprime loan crisis, that government intervention was largely responsible, I’m treated like a nut? Do you think they’re just wrong on that point?
And do you really think the Tea Partiers are all just a bunch of ignorant rubes who have never read NRO?
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
I respect mainstream conservatives a hell of a lot more
than Tea Party nutjobs. That movement is full of crazies.
http://www.progressivedelmarva.com/2010/02/black-helicopters-over-nashville.html
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
It's not that I don't respect your arguments
it’s just that a lot of them (particularly the economic debate) are not based in facts. That’s a problem whether you’re an actual conservative or a crazy tea bagger – right now a lot of your arguments are just not based in fact.
And yes I think most of the tea baggers are ignorant whackos.
Half the problem is that depending on where and what you read, you get different things presented as facts. I read NRO all the time, and they talk about government policy effectively forcing banks to issue those loans all the time. So either they have their facts wrong too (and I’m inclined to trust them on most things), you have your facts wrong, or it’s sufficiently complicated that even what really happened is in question. And honestly, #3 seems mostly likely right now.
And I think your opinion of the Tea Party people is unfortunate, because you must think a lot of ordinary people are ignorant whackos, then.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
As far as the CRA, their facts are wrong
See below. NO ONE told banks they HAD to loan. Just use the same rules with everybody if they chose to loan.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Oh I definitely
think lots of ordinary people are ignorant – because they are. Poll after poll shows it. That’s just fact.
I won't apologize for my opinion
of the Tea Party. Them people are nuts.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/233331
Steve Malloy, author of Green Hell: How Environmentalists Plan to Ruin Your Life, kicked off the first full day of conference proceedings by warning that Obama and his minions are conspiring to control every aspect of Americans’ lives—the colors of their cars, the kind of toilet paper they use, how much time they spend in the shower, the temperature of their homes—all under the guise of U.N. greenhouse-gas-reduction schemes. “Obama isn’t a U.S. socialist,” Malloy thundered. “He’s an international socialist. He envisions a one-world government.”
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I just don’t see why the Tea Party is considered so much nuttier than the many leftist groups like Code Pink that the mainstream media like to call genuine grassroots groups.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Code Pink is a bunch of morons, too
Much like the Tea Party, their intentions may be good, but there’s too much nuttiness clouding the message and their delivery actually detracts from their intended result.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
The difference
is that Code Pink would NEVER get the Democratic VP candidate from one year prior to be the speaker at their convention! Teabaggers are rapidly becoming mainstream republicans and are embraced by much of republican congressional representatives.
That's because they're marginalized by both sides
I always talk about Ron Paul. Did you watch any of the Jon Stewart/Bill O’Reilly conversation? There is an hour-long video of it on the web.
Stewart talks about how Fox News has embraced the tea party movement, but Stewart notes that the original tea party activists – Ron Paul and his peers – have been marginalized by Fox News. Jon asked Bill, “Why is that?” Bill’s response was, “We don’t have time to cover Almond Joy and Mounds – you’re talking about Peter, Paul, and Mary, right?”
You don’t hear a lot of these voices because instead of being ridiculed by one side, they’re ridiculed by both. And since that’s pretty much the definition of what has been “widely accepted,” it’s not talked about unless you seek it out.
Although one of the reasons I love Jon Stewart is not only because he gives my man Ron Paul plenty of airtime, but he recognizes and ridicules the ridiculous while keeping an open mind about everything. He’s what every unbiased political commentator should strive to be.
Yup
What is your point? The bottom line is “conservatives” in congress are not the rational fiscal conservatives you are attempting to describe. There just plain aren’t any there. Or if there are they are going with the tea bag crown on every vote. I don’t really care who’s marginalizing them (it’s surely not the left), but they are gone.
Bet you like the Garrett Atkins signing, too.
:)
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Funny, that’s the one zk brought up when I was trying to stop talking politics elsewhere in the thread. And I was okay with it before they signed Tejada, but I’d rather just put Luke at 1B and have Reimold DH more.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
I'd love to see Luke get a try at 1B.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Vuff, just as a word of advice. Walk away. You’re not going to learn anything or convince any one about a validity of an opposing viewpoint.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
But the exchange can be fun!
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
And just think this all started because of a picture of a guy with some words on his hand.
Curse whoever posted that.
yeah what a rabble rouser :P
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Birdman: Yeah.
This is why I talk about politics online about once every two years, and then remember why I haven’t in two years.
I’m gonna go play some MLB Power Pros 2008 now. Great baseball game if you’ve got a Wii or PS2; don’t let the graphics fool you.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
I downloaded Dante;s Inferno
Was not expecting the boobies. But a great game nonetheless.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
hoorah for boobies!
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
It's a great demo game
Give it a try from Xbox Live
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Oh My God....
And considering that the whole housing crisis was largely created by government telling banks to make risky loans to people who couldn’t really afford to pay them back…
Isn’t it pretty the way conservative sing away the pitfalls of the free market by finding yet another thing to blame on the government? Financial institutions had been clamoring for decades for the kind of deregulation that lead to the economic collapse. And yet you try to explain your beloved free market’s obvious failure away with this sort of bunk. God help us if you people get back in power.
Right, banks have been clamoring to make loans to people who will probably never pay them back? That makes a lot of sense.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Right...
because the GOP abolished the regulations preventing commercial and investment banking being done by the same company. So, once that hurdle was out of the way, commercial banks knew that they could get their loans off their books immediately and peddle them to unsuspecting investors (since the analysts are giving them positive ratings to stay in the banks good graces since there is zero regulation of the analysis), meanwhile the investment banking side of the bank can bet against those very same loans that they know will likely never be paid back. It’s a nifty little deal they and the GOP free marketers have worked out for themselves.
Did this happen before, or after, the government forced banks to give people risky loans? Is anyone disputing the fact that that was a bad idea?
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
This crazy idea
that government “forced” banks to give risky loans is really comical. Especially since the economic theory that expanded home ownership was coming from the Republican Allan Greenspan. Seriously keep the comedy coming. And exactly which lobbyists do you think were telling congress to deregulate and encourage risky loans???
Exactly
What is this “forcing them to make loans” fiction you keep pumping? I saw some very happy companies very eager to bring in unqualified borrowers like COuntrywide and Ameriquest…not the government (a Republican government I might add) forcing companies to make bad loans. I mean honestly the ridiculousness needs to end at some point with these equivocal arguments you hear on Rush and Glenn Beck.
Banks
and other financial institutions clamored for the segmentation and securitization of the mortgage marketplace, which enabled the lender that made the initial loan to securitize it in a package (bundle) and sell it to a larger entity, thus eliminating the necessity for better screening by the original lender, since he wouldn’t be stuck holding the bag. In the ensuing paper shuffle virtually everyone lost interest in the qualifications of borrowers when the marketplace became so murky that few people realized who was actually holding the bad assets and the good assets anymore. Plus nobody in the financial industry cared as long as the housing prices kept rising.
Capitalize the profits, socialize the losses
that’s what banks want.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
A bit of background...
CRA doesn’t require loans to be made, to minorities or anyone else. It requires that the same rules apply to people seeking mortgages in poor neighborhoods as those buying in other neighborhoods. “Nor does the law require institutions to make high-risk loans that jeopardize their safety,” according to the Federal Reserve’s CRA Web site, “To the contrary, the law makes it clear that an institution’s CRA activities should be undertaken in a safe and sound manner.”
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
i agree with you
sadly, it was palin with the stuff on her hand and not some other random politician. its so hard to even think of defending her. she dug that hole herself.
by twistedlogic on Feb 10, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
Definitely the only person.
He delivers SPEECHES from a teleprompter. She had to write down the main tenets of her freaking political party.
Yeah I thought that was fucking hilarious.
Seriously though, who can’t remember the main pillars of their political party?
So what's this Google Buzz?
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
what google buzz?
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
I'm wondering if the whole "lmgtfy" thing got old already... ;)
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
i think it has
it was popular in the summer but then it died down.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 10:26 AM EST up reply actions
perhaps we thought you'd learn
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
No kidding
But I remember when I was 13, I was at least 1000x more annoying that BSF is, so I’ve become a softie on this issue.
is that a compliment to me?
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, why not
I take it easy on kids because I look back at my childhood and realize: I was a whiny brat who was lucky not to gotten a pillow to the face.
is a pillow an actual pillow
or is it slang for a punch?
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, and you're too young to know it. :)
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Yeah, I'm with you on this
Which probably makes sense since as you posited yesterday, we may in fact be the same person.
I just think back to what I was like when I was 13 and I must have been totally annoying. I just didn’t have the whole wide internet, or even a computer, at my fingertips so I annoyed completely different people. Like everyone I went to school with.
But if I was on internet message boards at age 13 I would have probably been a horrid, attention-craving beast. Thank goodness that didn’t happen.
Cry havoc and unleash the Esskay hot dogs of war! - The Wayward Oriole, Opening Day 2008
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 10, 2010 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
I had a computer
and we had a sweet 12.4baud internet connection from the Carroll County Public Library. I used to download all the Commander Keene and Duke Nukem games from Westminster BBS and generally annoy the shit out of people on mIRC. They were good times, except when my parents would try to make me go outside and I’d throw a temper tantrum. Can’t wait until I have kids of my own!
If I knew would I be asking?
See how that works?
I mean, has anyone done anything with it? I just logged into gmail today and it told me I’m following 23 people but only 2 are following me. Should I feel bad about myself?
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Oh, sorry I don't have a GMail.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Hmmm
http://www.pcworld.com/article/188998/the_buzz_about_google_buzz.html
Yeah I definitely don’t have this on my gmail
maybe they're phasing it in
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
like the "new" facebook
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
When will they stop changing that site? So annoying.
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
NO!
I love the new facebook! It’s way more organized. And my mac used to mess up my notifications menu. It used to cut off the most recent notifications so I couldn’t even open the “see all notifications” page. I had to right click and say I wanted the notifications in a new page. Such a time waster.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
I actually like the new layout.
I just wish they’d stop screwing around with it. It’s fine now, but they’ll still find a reason to change it in a week.
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
I HATE IT
It takes 3 clicks to even get to a list of my FB friends, it’s harder to find my most used apps and games, I have yet to find ONE new feature that’s an actual improvement. Not one.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Well
I’m not having trouble with chat anymore, and I kinda like the notifications being at the top of the screen. It is kinda a pain to get to the friends list, but that’s why I just type the name into the search bar. Plus, I don’t really use any FB apps, so that part doesn’t bother me in the slightest bit.
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
I don't ever look at my friend list
I always type their name in search.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Do all your friends have weird names?
Because when I type in common names like Chris Jones, I get everyone BUT the one on my friend’s list.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
it auto fills with people who are you friends
So if I have a friend named Matt I type Matt and then choose the one I want from the list.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Must be nice
Mine sure as hell doesn’t do that.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
really?
why not? that’s a facebook feature I thought.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
duck surfs the web on a commodore 64
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
If I could find a way to disable chat
FB would be a lot more fun.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Disable it, or just set yourself offline?
The latter is easy, you just click the chat bar and then Options, and Go Offline.
Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.
Thank you sir!
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
yeah, i never chat.
offline rules.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
word
Because I need someone from high school trying to chat me up? No thanks.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
yeah I've actually done that
But I still just stay offline anyway. I have IM and gchat so the people I want to chat with already know how to find me.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
My sis and mom arte the 2 worst poffenders
I’m all like “Can’t you see I’m trying to play Mob Wars here!”
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
OMG
i don’t ever want to see a mafia, farmville, or garden update again.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
All of the above are permanently hidden for me.
Cry havoc and unleash the Esskay hot dogs of war! - The Wayward Oriole, Opening Day 2008
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 10, 2010 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, i hid them from status
but the ads keep showing up
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
this
i used to be able to get to scrabble and chess from ANY PAGE when a notification came in. now i have to go back to the home page. which means i have to put bookmarks for scrabble and chess in my browser.
EPIC FAIL.
i also don’t like the new privacy settings. i used to be able to completely hide, and now i can’t.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
THAT is what really sucks.
I can’t stand the new privacy settings. How FB sees them as an improvement, I have NO clue. Much less secure. Ugh.
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
they want more people to find you and friend you
so their tentacles grow. and their membership grows.
so that maybe one day they actually turn a profit.
FB doesn’t truly give a crap about your privacy, as i’m sure you know.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
And those FB quizzes?
Evil to the core. Find out why.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
you can't completely hide anymore?
that blows.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
can't tell if you're mocking me here
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
not
technically I was trying to reply to duck’s quiz thing but it applies here too.
cxcxcxcxzzzzzzzzz
in that case,
thanks for the solidarity!
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
WTF, you can't completely hide anymore.
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
It told me to "Check it out"
(or something like that) when I logged in and then I was just…screw it, and went to my inbox. They’re always coming up with new things that I don’t feel like looking into. I just want Gmail. It’s simple.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
I'm pretty much in love with everything google does
So of course I had to check it out. Except for wave.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
yeah
I still haven’t figured out a good use for google wave. Maybe my life just isn’t important enough for “collaboration.” =)
by Gorilla Bird on Feb 10, 2010 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
I have it
It took everyone from my address book with an “@gmail.com” email address and says that I am following them. I guess it’s supposed to be like twitter in your gmail. One stop shopping!
yeah it also suggested I follow some non-gmail people
I don’t know how that works.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
is anybody using google wave?
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
I looked at it when it came out
But couldn’t find my practical application for my life. Have they changed it at all recently?
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I never really used it
I fooled around with it for about a day and then forgot all about it, because frankly it sucked. But it looks liked they’ve taken what the learned with Wave and incorporated some of it into Buzz. Or maybe I’m seeing things.
So wait, there's reportedly a Wang on the Orioles list but no Colon?
Some list.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
I am not EVEN gonna ask
And I’m definitely not Googling it.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
It's a gay bar
And a fun one back when I was 22 years old.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Not that much into bars, gay, straight, or redneck
Did all my drinking in a college dorm room, the way God intended.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I know that one
the doors/windows are all mirrored on the outside which weirds me out when I walk past.
cxcxcxcxzzzzzzzzz
I'm doing a fantasy baseball mock draft, roster
C Joe Mauer
1B Todd Helton
2B Brian Roberts
SS Elvis Andrus
3B Gordon Beckham
OF Matt Holiday
Of Nick Markakis
OF Adam Jones
UTIL Matt Wieters
P Justin Verlander
P Brian Matusz
P Rick Porecello
Thoughts?
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 10:34 AM EST reply actions
final product
1. Joe Mauer (Min – C)
2. Matt Holliday (StL – OF)
3. Brian Roberts (Bal – 2B)
4. Nick Markakis (Bal – OF)
5. Justin Verlander (Det – SP)
6. Adam Jones (Bal – OF)
7. Matt Wieters (Bal – C)
8. Elvis Andrus (Tex – SS)
9. Brian Matusz (Bal – SP)
10. Todd Helton (Col – 1B)
11. Gordon Beckham (CWS – 3B)
12. Rick Porcello (Det – SP)
13. Mark Buehrle (CWS – SP)
14. Nolan Reimold (Bal – OF)
15. Jeff Niemann (TB – SP)
16. Justin Duchscherer (Oak – SP)
17. Mike González (Bal – RP)
18. Miguel Tejada (Bal – SS)
19. J.P. Howell (TB – RP)
20. Franklin Gutiérrez (Sea – OF)
21. Aroldis Chapman (Cin – SP)
22. Brad Bergesen (Bal – SP)
23. Dexter Fowler (Col – OF)
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Five Orioles is probably three too many
Granted, I don’t know anything about fantasy baseball.
Cry havoc and unleash the Esskay hot dogs of war! - The Wayward Oriole, Opening Day 2008
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 10, 2010 10:37 AM EST reply actions
Reply fail! Damn. Snow is freezing my brain away.
Cry havoc and unleash the Esskay hot dogs of war! - The Wayward Oriole, Opening Day 2008
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 10, 2010 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
i'm a homer
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Don't be a Homer

"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
can i be a bart?
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
The Office is on tomorrow
And I looked at some of the promo pictures…either Jim or Michael is going to get DEMOTED. I can’t wait for this any longer.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
I've watched the Office several times
I haven’t laughed once, it is a comedy right?
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
It is.
I think it’s amazing. I used to like Scrubs but it’s not funny at all anymore. The Office has gotten a bit worse but I still think it’s great.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
If I ever watch that show, it's only so I can watch John Krasinski
Jim and Pam are the only characters that can make me laugh. Everyone else, I’m just like, wait, is this supposed to be funny? I seriously cannot laugh at that show. I sit there the entire time going “I think that was supposed to be funny, should I be laughing?”
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
This is basically how I feel.
After the first sentence.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
How many episodes have you seen?
If I’m going to be honest, I didn’t think it was funny at first either. My brother insisted that I watch it. He has all of season 3 and season 4, so I stole them. You have to see a bunch of episodes to “get” the show. A lot of the humor won’t make sense unless you know what Michael (Steve Carell’s character) is like. Or any other character for that matter. Jim and Pam are adorable.
That’s just my take.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
Nah, I've actually seen a LOT of episodes.
I just really, really don’t like it. Michael drives me crazy. Dwight drives me crazy. Andy drives me crazy. All the characters that seem to be the funny characters Office fans love are the ones that I can’t stand. It’s just… not my cup of tea. I simply don’t find it in the least bit funny. But yes, Jim and Pam ARE adorable. I’ll give the show that.
"He's a gazelle." -Adam Jones on Nolan Reimold.
Oh well.
I guess there’s nothing to say then. You can’t fault people for their taste in comedy. It’s like food. Some people like certain types of food more than others, or don’t like a food at all. I guess the whole Jim and Pam thing (if you’re using the food metaphor) could describe a certain food you don’t like prepared in a different way that you enjoy.
You still don’t like the food in general, but you like that style.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
I watch The Office
I don’t think this season has been funny at all, though I’ve previously though it was the funniest show on tv. But now it seems to have lost something, especially compared to 30 Rock.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
30 Rock is amazing.
Alec Baldwin and Tina Fey are brilliant.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
30 Rock's good
But that;s not something that I have to watch.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Always Sunny is the shit
Anyone who watches that and Lost what’s up with Mac being a character on Lost now?
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I enjoy John Krasinski, too
but I can’t look at him the same way after the opening scene of Away We Go.
Bedard says he doesn't care and thinks goals are pointless.
OK
It’s just I don’t see why everyone finds so interesting/funny, same thing with Scrubs.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
I agree its dropped off since some of its earlier seasons, but i still love the Office
I’m a big believer that no tv show should ever last more than 5 seasons. Thats more than enough time to tell as story without giving the writers too much rope to hang themselves (see: Lost, Heroes). When you know from the beginning that you have a set endpoint, I think you end with a much tighter show that actually has a sense of direction.
I think that happened with Scrubs, too.
The 5th season was great and then it just went downhill from there. I think The Office is getting worse slower than Scrubs did.
Thing is, The Office still has some story left in it now that Sabre has bought them, and Pam has to have the baby…there’s some more. They’re not done yet.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
Theres definitely some left to tell
But i think they would have gotten there already if they were on a deadline. There were a whole bunch of mediocre story lines that could have been cut over the past few seasons to make for a much tighter show.
Problem is...
Heroes went downhill starting in its SECOND season. There were bright points along the way (like the arc that saw zk’s cameo) but that show hit its zenith the episode before its first season finale.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
To me, it felt like a lot of that was because they didnt know where to go after the first season
So the show just started to unravel
Heroes is garbage
minus the first season. I can’t believe I stuck with it as long as I did.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
I didn't even realize Monday was it until 30 minutes before broadcast.
That’s how messed up this season was – I couldn’t even tell they were building to a season finale.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I watch heroes
I can’t figure out why I like it so much, but I do.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
exceptions, right?
M*A*S*H*?
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Some people disagree
JKSK, do not click if you’re easily offended
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
wow
that’s an angry dude.
i hated MASH at first as a kid, based on its stupid promos, and then one day i was home sick from school and watched 5 episodes on reruns, and i was hooked. one of the best things ever on the air.
RIP Larry Gelbart, you changed television forever.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Of course theres always exceptions
But i’d say more often than not, any series that goes more than 5 seasons could have been rewritten into a better, shorter one.
Not the Simpsons
There were 10 good seasons, then a run of mediocre ones with occasional bright moments, then a load of crap, but still.
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
Well, I'm off to read Neil Gaiman.
See ya’ll later.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
Good choice! Which book?
My favorite of his is American Gods.
I also really like Good Omens, his collaboration with Pratchett.
Cry havoc and unleash the Esskay hot dogs of war! - The Wayward Oriole, Opening Day 2008
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 10, 2010 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa,
I’m reading American Gods. First time for me. It’s very good. Different than his other stuff, but still really good.
Didn’t he do a few collaborations with Terry Pratchett? I’ve read Stardust and The Graveyard Book. I personally like his books for adults better.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
Didn't like Good Omens
I love Neil Gaiman, even though I’ve only read American Gods and Neverwhere. Both were fantastic. Didn’t finish Good Omens because it was just a little too silly for my tastes. I’ve also read the first Sandman collection and loved it.
I didn’t read Stardust, but I really loved the movie.
The Stardust movie is one of my favorites.
It’s way different from the book, but it’s nice that the makers put their own take on it. I’m trying to read more Neil Gaiman. At camp there were a lot of Gaiman fans so I decided to check him out. I actually am not too into fantasy, but I really enjoy his books.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
As bad as it sounds, Camden Yards looks AWESOME under snow.
Damn terp game got delayed. I was looking forward to kicking some wahoo ass
"On my tombstone just write, 'The sorest loser that ever lived.'"
Earl Weaver
I'm scared for life
I just rex ryan’s flabby stomach.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 11:52 AM EST reply actions
Damon could go to Braves.
Just get him out of the AL please.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 11:56 AM EST reply actions
All of this political talk makes me queasy
I’m gonna go finished baking cookies.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Just think about the snow.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
More snow photography

What you can’t tell is that our driveway and street were plowed out early this morning
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
Salisbury, currently
As of 5 minutes ago:

"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Here are a few from HoCo




Nick the Stick Snowman isn’t doing so well.
That snowbank in the right side of the third picture, you can’t see all of it but it’s taller than me.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Call FEMA!
Vizzini: Let me put it this way. Have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates?
Man in Black: Yes.
Vizzini: Morons.
You're in Howard County
say hi to Johnny S and me :)
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Watching the Mighty Ducks, and figured out where Sidney Crosby got his ideas
“Take the fall, act hurt, get indignant”
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
From teh only other blog where I write stuff...
Dear God,
Thanks for all the snow. It’s very pretty.
You can stop now.
Thanks,
The Eastern Shore
http://progressivedelmarva.com
/not mine, but still funny.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
You’ve got a real type of thing going down, gettin’ down
There’s a whole lot of rhythm going round
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Only another 347 comments to reach another 700 posts today.
It’s bad that I wish I was at work, right?
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
From CC's Twitter feed:
CamdenChat
I’ll be talking with @hotstovedotcom at three o’clock at http://bit.ly/7jTLQS. Check it out
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
yup
3 p.m. at www.hotstove.com
they asked me to send in a picture and now I see that Randy from Over the Monster just sent in their site logo. I wish I’d thought to do that.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
You could use one of your shotgunning a beer pics.
Just sayin’.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Or a picture of Felix Pie
since he’s so adorable
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
They know the basics
but let’s face it, if you[re running a national site, how much do you pay attention to the O’s? The Astros? The Brewers? The Pirates?
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
I think they did got Wieters, didn't they?
They messed up Matusz.
I turned on their final thoughts after I hung up and heard the guy say that he heard of Wieters once or twice over the year last year but he’ll have to pay attention in 2010. I thought at first he was joking around but it didn’t appear that way.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
they also said Bergensen instead of Bergesen
I wanted to say, “here’s our mantra, 3E1N!”
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
aww thanks!
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
ahahaahah oops
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
they're basically the same person
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
luke scott
will sigle handely break the yanks and red sox backs and make them humble of course with the help of miggy and atkins who will be all stars
I love Open Threads.
What happens in Open Threads…stays in Open Threads. Is that a movie line? Because that could be a good quote…
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
Not a movie line
A tourism slogan.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Snow pics
Since I just went out and took some pics, here they are:
York Road at 695, facing south:

Facing north, with my dumb finger in the way:

The middle of an intersection near the GF’s house:

I'm so glad I didn't have to leave the house today.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Wow it's windy
There’s a wind sock in my backyard that’s twirling abnormally.
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 4:49 PM EST reply actions
The consequences of reading!
Who knew I would miss a lively debate between Republicans and Democrats. This is no fun without indentations.
I do love disagreements, but I don’t you guys are ever going to agree. You’re never going to convince each other that you’re view is the right one. Don’t get me wrong, it’s fun, but you guys are falling on each other’s deaf ears.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
This is more for future generations that for us
One day this dusty thread will be unearthed and future researchers will be fascinated by our internecine squabbling. We’re contributing to the doctrine of our time.
It sounds so much more important when you put it that way
To think I missed it all because I was shoveling.
Cry havoc and unleash the Esskay hot dogs of war! - The Wayward Oriole, Opening Day 2008
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 10, 2010 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
Ah
I see. That makes perfect sense. When I’m old and decrepit—sorry to say that most of you with the exception of BSF will age much faster than me (mother nature for ya—the internet will be advanced, we’ll all be in flying houses, and I won’t know how to use this strange thing called a computer, I’ll tell my grandchildren to look on the “internet” (“Is that what the kids are calling it now?”) and find a place called…hmm…if I remember correctly…Camden Chat. I used to waste my time on that site, I’ll tell them.
Welcome to my head.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
we don't age FASTER than you
we just got a head start.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
When you put it that way...
Well, I have to put it all in perspective: Some of you will age much faster than me, then again, some of you MAY live to be 100.
But it sounds better to say that you’ll age faster. I want to be reassured that my youth will last.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
You're too kind.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
It sucks coming to terms with that fact
My suggestion: don’t even think about it until after college.
As Philosoraptor says:

Hahahaha
I enjoy advice on life from a…thoughtful dinosaur.
Complaining is good for you as long as you're not complaining to the person you're complaining about. - Lynn Johnston (I don't know who that is...but it's a good quote.)
as do I, as do I...
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
sweet
http://www.facebook.com/OmarLittleTheWire?v=wall
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
also
your local weatherguy is a dork.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
He's not a local guy
The video says Accuweather.com, so I think he’s just a random guy who does a bunch of different forecasts for a certain region. He’s not attached to any tv station here in Baltimore I don’t think.
He’s funny, though! I like how they edited out his scream. Thank god for that.
There's going to be another storm on Monday, oh boy...
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 9:07 PM EST reply actions
uh, not a blizzard
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
good for you
Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Feb 10, 2010 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, man
I’d forgotten about KDFC’s bout with Roch. Good times.
Don’t know why half that thread is hidden though.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
me neither!
I don’t see any reason for it but it didn’t seem right to unhide.
I will lead these Peoples to the promised land, also known as "Slightly Ahead of the Blue Jays." ~WietersRunDry
Dulck, please don't think I'm prepositioning you
but Aramark is a “which,” not a “who”.
And if Obama was half the liberal the tea-baggers say he is, he might actually have gotten something done by now (other than bailing out large Republican donors).
That is all.
That would be "Duck"
That’s embarrassing.
by fishoutawata on Feb 11, 2010 3:41 AM EST up reply actions
But corporations are people!
SCOTUS said so!
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal

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