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Pondering the Fans

I wish every day was Matt Wieters Day (Photo by zknower)

I was listening to some talk radio on the way into work yesterday and a caller was lamenting the emptiness of Oriole Park at Camden Yards during the season. Believe me, I know how he feels. It doesn't matter how many times I go to a mid-week game at Camden Yards at see a crowd of just 10,000, it never stops surprising me. Not surprised in the sense that I expected it to be a full house, but I always have that initial reaction of "holy crap I cannot BELIEVE how few people are here." It's always strange to me and always sad.

One thing that the caller said that got me thinking was that the line of thinking is that the fans will return when the team starts playing better, but he thinks that the team will start playing better if the fans return. My initial reaction was something along the lines of, "pshaw," but the more I thought about it, I kind of started to agree with him. Specifically I thought of Matt Wieters' debut last May.

Star-divide

I went to two Orioles games the week of Matt Wieters' debut. The first was on Tuesday, May 26th. It was a cold, damp night where less then 10,000 fans watched Jason Berken make his major league debut. Nolan Reimold and Adam Jones hit home runs and the Orioles won 7-2. The park was like a ghost town. The second game I attended that week was obviously Friday, May 29th. Those of us who attended both games (I know duck, brotz13, and I were all at both) can tell you that Camden Yards on Friday didn't appear to be anything like Camden Yards on Tuesday. It was hard to imagine I was even in the same place. Over 42,000 attended Wieters' debut and the crowd was amazing. Minus a few sections in the upper deck and club level it was a packed house, and for once packed full of Orioles fans. The atmosphere was crackling with excitement and energy and the Orioles responded. Brad Bergesen pitched the best game of his short career, Luke Scott hit two home runs, and the Orioles players couldn't stay seated during the game.

But so what? They won Berken's debut as well and there might as well have been tumbleweeds blowing through the outfield. In fact, their win on Matt Wieters Day was their fifth in a row and the four games prior had a combined attendence of just over 60,000. No matter. I still say the fans had something to do with the team that night. It can't be scientifically proven, it can't be written on a stat sheet, and it certainly can't turn a crappy team into a contender, but I have to believe it helps the guys out there.

The Orioles and Peter Angelos have done plenty in the recent past to keep fans away from Camden Yards in the past. The biggest, of course, is putting a completely lousy product out on the team. It's hard to want to go see the Orioles when Jay Payton is in left field, Brandon Fahey is at shortstop, and Victor Zambrano is making the start. Additionally, they've catered to out of town guests to an embarrassing degree, employed hostile ushers, and can't even keep their nacho cheese hot on multiple nights, to name a few things.

It seems that the tide is turning, though. In the past few seasons the Orioles have made strides to get their fans back in the stadium. From $1 seats to 2110 Eutaw Street to that silly "We Win You Win" promotion when the Orioles couldn't get the W on Sunday to save their lives, they're trying. That combined with an actual effort to improve the product on the field and maybe things are finally starting to turn around.

I hope for the sake of the O's young players that's true. Brian Roberts has been playing in front of an empty house for his entire career and Adam Jones and Nick Markakis have gotten their fair share as well. It has to take a toll on them the alternating between small crowds and large hostile crowds.

Take, for example, these quotes. From Adam Jones: "We're not at the new Yankee Stadium," Jones said. "We're at Camden Yards. I expect more of our fans to be here, but I understand completely why they're not. But it [stinks] that they're not." And from Brian Roberts: "I don't know why so many Red Sox fans want to be here and Oriole fans don't...You'd just like to have the support of our fans. We have a pretty darn good team. When we win, I know people will come out. But it would nice if they came out to support us when we're in the process of developing a winning team."

I don't want Nolan Reimold and Felix Pie and Brian Matusz and Chris Tillman and Brad Bergesen and Matt Wieters to get used things being that way. I want them to feel the support of the fans and for them to know that we believe in them.I want them to love Baltimore and love the fans and know that we love them too. Yes, they have to show they can win before the fans will come back full force but I don't think it's out of line to hope that some of us will show them a little faith and encouragement.

There is more positive buzz around the Orioles this off season than I can remember in quite some time, and I'm not just talking about the notice from the national media. Fan Fest was an amazing display of excitement. The other day I heard a group of strangers talking about Tejada and Matusz at the deli counter of the grocery store. That seems like such a small thing but after so many years of the Orioles being largely forgotten during the off season, it's something I don't take all that lightly. Hell, even Camden Chat is feeling the effects. This past February was the second busiest month in CC's history, traffic wise. Busier than any month during the season last year than April. I am really hoping all of that translates into a few more fans in the stands to give our guys a boost. 

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I wish I lived closer so I could go to more games.

Though pretty much every weekend I’m in the area, if they’re playing a home series, I’ll probably try to make it to the whole thing.

Weaver's Fourth Law: Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs.

by Vuff on Mar 2, 2010 5:40 PM EST reply actions  

I came in here to post the same thing

I’m only home in Baltimore maybe a week or two max during baseball season and try to get at least a few games in. If i lived in town I’d be there at least twice a week.

by kba26 on Mar 2, 2010 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

same here

I live 6 or 7 hours away (in NC) and it’s just too far to make it for a day trip. With my busy schedule and tight budget I can usually make it to 1 game a year. I’d love to hit up more, but it’s just so hard.

by Gorilla Bird on Mar 2, 2010 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Baltimore was in the top 15 in attendance since OPaCY opened until 2005

And that didn’t seem to do much of anything for the team.

I don’t disagree with the notion that the crowd rejuvenated the team on Wieters Night, but it impacted the players solely because it happens so rarely, and wouldn’t have nearly as profound an effect if sustained.

"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer

by Baltimo on Mar 2, 2010 5:50 PM EST reply actions  

Two things

1) I think top 5 or top 10 makes a bigger impact than top 15, being simply average in attendance likely wouldn’t have that big of an effect

2) Capacity is likely a more accurate measure than total attendance, since a huge stadium that is only half full isn’t going to provide the same atmosphere as a smaller stadium thats totally packed. We were consistently ranked a little lower in percent of tickets sold than total tickets sold, being all the way down to 19th in 2004.

by kba26 on Mar 2, 2010 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Those teams were shitty

I don’t think anyone ever said it would make a bad team good. In fact, I think I said the opposite.

"It feels like home,’’ Pie said. "All my friends are here."

by Stacey on Mar 2, 2010 6:29 PM EST up reply actions  

It's unfortunate

I remember going to games when I was a kid and being in awe at Camden Yards. It’s a beautiful park!!! The crowds, the smells, and the colors all of that made a baseball game fun for a kid. I hope to go to back there one day.

Unfortunately as it is true with all sports, winning brings the fans.

One day the Os will big the big birds of the East! They have the potential I think.

Ski-U-Mah!

by CrazyCollegian on Mar 2, 2010 5:50 PM EST reply actions  

its been a long time

Without spewing my Oriole fanhood life history, I do agree that when the FO makes the effort fans will show up. I have been a O’s fan all my life (29 years) but since leaving the area in 1998 really haven’t followed them until 2 years ago when it really seemed that they were making the effort. As for games, 2001 was the last time I made an apperance at OPCY. But I can proudly say I overpaid for opening day tickets and I am really looking forward to it. I am also looking forward to making many more apperances throughout the season. Even though I call philly home now and it would be way easier to watch the phillies every day, I remain an O’s fan and always will.

by Philly O's on Mar 2, 2010 5:53 PM EST reply actions  

If this was true

how do you explain all the Marlin’s success this past decade?

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey

by jobe on Mar 2, 2010 6:20 PM EST reply actions  

WTF?

B-rob, in 2007:

You’d just like to have the support of our fans. We have a pretty darn good team.

I agree with the first sentence. The second one? Not so much. Not when Freddy Bynum and Corey Patterson are getting major reps.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Mar 2, 2010 6:36 PM EST reply actions  

The Roberts quote
“I don’t know why so many Red Sox fans want to be here and Oriole fans don’t…You’d just like to have the support of our fans. We have a pretty darn good team. When we win, I know people will come out. But it would nice if they came out to support us when we’re in the process of developing a winning team.”

I think he answered his own question in this quote, but the Orioles have sucked for a long time, and casual fans don’t want to see a loser. If the team starts to play better than people will start coming in time. Although it is pretty discouraging that the Orioles outdrew the Rays in 2009, though the gap shrunk from 2008 (180K to 25K in ’09).

I’m sure from the player’s view it is more fun playing in front of 35K versus 10K. Does it have an impact on their performance? I’m not so sure about that, but I’m sure it’s more fun for them. And that is after all why kids play the game.

Librarians are hiding something

by dfa on Mar 2, 2010 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

good for him tho

it might not have been good, but hes one of the guys and i like that hes trying to keep up the morale. now if only he’d stop lollygaggin…..

by twistedlogic on Mar 2, 2010 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

sundays are pretty bad

i remember two games last year were there maybe 5 people in a whole section.

Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano

by BaltimoreSportsFan on Mar 2, 2010 6:45 PM EST reply actions  

Differential Pricing for Games

I can’t remember where i read about this last year, but I remember thinking ’Damn, now that is a management policy i can get behind". The article was talking about a market phenomenon in a different city and was generally negative, but it seems like the perfect remedy here in b-more.

If the out of towners want to pack the stadium for MFY/PHN games, the least the organization can do for us fans is gouge those bastards.

by b_duardo on Mar 2, 2010 7:38 PM EST reply actions  

we already do, sort of

all tickets for phn mfy games are 5 or 6 bucks more expensive then normal.

Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano

by BaltimoreSportsFan on Mar 2, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

they call them "prime games"

because, “let’s gte more cash for yankees and red sox fans” doesn’t quite that good of a ring to it.

Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano

by BaltimoreSportsFan on Mar 2, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

*get*

Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano

by BaltimoreSportsFan on Mar 2, 2010 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I love this idea, but....

….they should waive the premium pricing for anyone with a local zip code.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Mar 2, 2010 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

On a more relevant note

This whole argument is a non-starter. If they win people will come. guaranteed.
If they just compete with a young, exciting roster, people will come.
This is most definitely a sports town and a baseball town. Enjoy the end of the era of cheap, empty seats. SRO will be back on the table.

by b_duardo on Mar 2, 2010 7:44 PM EST reply actions  

"If they win people will come. guaranteed."

Tampa Bay would beg to differ.

"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal

by duck on Mar 2, 2010 9:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure

But there is a history showing people in Bmore actually DO show up for a winner.

by daveh873 on Mar 2, 2010 9:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it’ll take some sustained winning for people to believe, though. It didn’t seem like fans came back in great numbers for the surprisingly competitive first half of ’05.

by BrianS on Mar 3, 2010 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I think it has to be long enough for them to notice

but Camden still had heavy attendance well into their losing streak. I think the locals want to come back, they just want to know the team is worth watching. If they make a run at a playoff spot, I think we’ll start seeing some respectable attendance numbers.

by daveh873 on Mar 3, 2010 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Florida teams have a hard time

for the most part, even if they do win games

"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law

by Reddrummer9187 on Mar 2, 2010 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

The Trop's gotta go-- or the Rayzzz gotta go from it -- to make a long-haul draw out of this team

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.

by Titov on Mar 3, 2010 5:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Yup.

From the might Wikipedia:

Tampa Bay population:

The population for the Tampa-St. Petersburg MSA currently stands at 2,733,761, as of a July 1, 2008 estimate, and the Greater Tampa Bay Region contains 4 million residents when including immediately adjacent urban and suburban counties to the official MSA.

Baltimore? Pretty similar.

As of 2008, the population of Baltimore was 636,919. The Baltimore Metropolitan Area has approximately 2.7 million residents; the 20th largest in the country. Baltimore is also the largest city in the surrounding Baltimore Metropolitan Area of 2,668,056 and in the associated combined statistical area of approximately 8.3 million residents.

Which, of course, it splits with other MLB team.

So, yeah, I am.

"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal

by duck on Mar 3, 2010 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

It's not just about population

A large percentage of residents are transplants who already have a rooting interest (usually the Yankees), the Rays have no history to speak of, and Florida is notorious for low interest in baseball.

"It feels like home,’’ Pie said. "All my friends are here."

by Stacey on Mar 3, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

approximately 87% of florida's residents....

….live in brooklyn, jersey, or long island, and travel south for the winter.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Mar 3, 2010 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

yea...i was gonna mention that

my grandmother lives in NY and like 90 percent of her friends now live in florida full-time, or go there for the winter.

by twistedlogic on Mar 3, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd like to see

the percentage of transplants in each of those areas. DC has a ton itself, but I’d be willing to bet that Florida has even more. It’s hard to draw in fans when a good chunk of your population brought their team with them or already had a team when the Rays came into existance.

by daveh873 on Mar 3, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Tradition.

Big difference.

Tampa is a more transient population too. Lots of people from other areas, especially Boston and New York.

I've got nothing against the bunt...in its place. But most of the time that place is the bottom of a long-forgotten closet. - Earl Weaver

http://dempseysarmy.blogspot.com

by DempseysArmy on Mar 3, 2010 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

last month should have an *

not trying to downplay it, but the cabin fever no doubt had role in it.

Don't give up, don't ever give up. - Jim Valvano

by BaltimoreSportsFan on Mar 2, 2010 7:49 PM EST reply actions  

the open threads are really the difference

we didn’t have them last year, iirc.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Mar 2, 2010 8:59 PM EST up reply actions  

No, you had that brainstorm toward the latter part of the season

as much as I try and take credit for it. :)

"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal

by duck on Mar 2, 2010 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

ahh well,

even a broken watch is right twice a day. ;)

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Mar 2, 2010 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Unofortunately I'll only be in the area for a couple weeks in May

I’ll have to catch a couple games while I’m back. I wish I could do more.

The T-Shirts on Tuesdays are a great incentive. I normally wouldn’t go into Baltimore on a Tuesday evening what with work the next day, but I will for a free tee. Maybe a couple more worthwhile promotions can expand the fan base. I think a big problem comes from the fact that young fans aren’t being brought in. And it’s not like the alternative is better. For some reason most of the kids that I talk to about baseball tend to be Natinal fans, god knows why. But what do kids love more than free stuff? Nuttin’.

by scohen on Mar 2, 2010 9:52 PM EST reply actions  

The Nats still have a "newness" about them

Kids love shiny new things and primary colors.

by daveh873 on Mar 2, 2010 9:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Just like women and fish

Am I right?…

(I know I’m not right)

by scohen on Mar 2, 2010 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Fortunately for the O's

Fortunately for the O’s my girlfriend will be in the Gambia from May to mid-July, which means I will be bored and sitting in the cheap seats with anyone I can get to go with me 3-4 games a week.

by microson on Mar 2, 2010 11:35 PM EST reply actions  

Is it "The Gambia"?

Like The Bronx or The Google.

by Jonny Pops on Mar 3, 2010 9:20 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

yeah

yeah it’s called “The Gambia” I think it’s full name is the republic of the gambia

by microson on Mar 3, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I go to a lot of Tuesday games

My own business takes me out of town in Sept. (can be a blessing), but it’s easy to drop $8 for a free t-shirt and some amazing seats in the upper deck earlier in the summer…. especially after Eaton dropped off the squad.

I live in Rockville, former O’s territory. The Nats absolutely blew their chances with the fans here (and Snyder buying up all the sports radio stations so nobody will know he’s a bad owner hasn’t helped much either).

I get the feeling, with the economy getting a bit less horrible, guys like Matusz, Bergesen, Tillman on the mound (instead of Simon, Suckitude, Eaton, Suckmoritude, and Hill), you might see more fans, especially if the Os start off hot and smack around that suspect Boston offense in April.

/Only been to one game at the new Nats stadium. That was the RJ rainout. Knowing the roads like a good Maryland boy, even pre-ICC it actually takes me less time to get to Camden than it does to brave the Red Line and head downtown, but I will catch all three O’s games there this year.

by dmoynihan on Mar 3, 2010 2:37 AM EST reply actions  

Woops...I hate mobile commenting...

Anyway, I think the fan base for the Os is fairly resilient. The very fact that so many showed up for the debut of highly touted prospect is a good sign.

But Baltimore is also a sleepy city, with or without the Orioles winning. Memorial Stadium was never a consistent sellout back when the team was always good.

Nightlife across the board is low energy in Bmore Monday through Wednesday. I think in order to sellout on those nights the team needs more than just winning. It needs great marketing and national recognition (which in turn markets the team more professionally). We had that with Camden Yards when it opened and then for years after. The national media hailed it as a breakthrough in architecture and everyone just had to go. We’ll need to find another angle to get that kind of attendance again. Like, I dunno, maybe Cal buying the team or something the media can dig into.

by Jonny Pops on Mar 3, 2010 9:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

It'll help when Matusz wins the Cy Young and the RoY in 2010.

"It feels like home,’’ Pie said. "All my friends are here."

by Stacey on Mar 3, 2010 9:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Dont sell him short

Cy Young, RoY, and MVP

"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law

by Reddrummer9187 on Mar 3, 2010 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Whoa, whoa...

what makes you think Mr Wieters is gonna relinquish his hold on MVP (or Cy Young or ROY for that matter)?

by daveh873 on Mar 3, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions  

he'll do it just this once

so matusz can take all three in the same year.

by twistedlogic on Mar 3, 2010 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

they re actually having two MVPs every year from now on

so that other players can still win one after SHJ gets his every year.

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Mar 3, 2010 10:31 AM EST up reply actions  

He may want them both now

I mean, greed is a sin, but i’m sure he can absolve himself.

by daveh873 on Mar 3, 2010 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

This is the most exciting year in years

Probably since 2004 to me this is the most exciting. I think the idea of not knowing what is to come with these new players is exciting. But i am convinced that these players are going to do nothing but good for us. Bergeson, Tillman, Arrieta, Matusz, Hernandez, Markakis, Jones, Reimold, Weiters, Pie, Josh Bell. The list is tremendous and i think we need to show our support with this team cause they could use it.

by Oriolebird88 on Mar 3, 2010 12:39 PM EST reply actions  

Bergesen

3 Es, 1 N

Hence his nickname.

And I completely agree with you. :)

"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic

by zknower on Mar 3, 2010 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Red Sox Fan Here

First, I just want to say that I love Camden Yards. My Dad grew up in Baltimore, so I’ve been to about 5 Sox-O’s games. In 2007, we went down for a weekend and saw a whole 3-game series and visited colleges in the area.
I was wondering if it pisses you off that the majority of the crowd is pro-Red Sox for most summer games against us. I felt kind of bad when our “Let’s go Red Sox” chants drowned out the local ones.

The Orioles are my second team, and I have a lot of hope for them for the future. You’ve got a great nucleus if you can develop your young, raw rotation.

by Schulz on Mar 6, 2010 4:44 PM EST reply actions  

Yes it pisses us off.

Especially all the pretend Red Sox fans.

by O'sFan21 on Mar 7, 2010 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

It pisses me off big time

It is discusting to me. I can’t stand it cause half of thoughs people live in west baltimore. Manny’s 500th homerun was the breaking point for me. I can’t stand it. Baseball has to do something to make the scedules a little more even.

by Oriolebird88 on Mar 11, 2010 9:27 AM EST reply actions  

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