Orioles acquire Julio Lugo?
by Dr Orpheus on Apr 1, 2010 10:15 AM EDT
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PrintThis is making its round through the intertubes and I'm just confused.
Julio Lugo hasn't been a solid player in...his career. Sure, there are concerns with Brian Roberts' back, Robert Andio as a viable option at second, or Ty Wigginton taking over if Roberts needs some time to recover, but Julio Lugo?
If this is an April Fools Day prank I'm going to be pissed, but even Buster Olney is reporting it on Twitter so there seems to be some legitamacy to it.
Hell, if Roberts is going to need some time, put Justin Turner at second for a few weeks, then send him back down.
Not to mention that Lugo has a large contract that the Red Sox threw at him a few years ago. Does that contract come onto the books for the Os or are they off the hook? What will Andy MacPhail have to send to the Cardinals to complete the deal? I'm a little too heated about this.
What say ye, Camden Chat?
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Sun says we're paying him league minimum.
So that’s good. I just don’t really see why he’s needed.
From the Land of Pleasant Living...
i still don't know what we're giving up.
it must be a PTBNL or something?
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
according to britt's blog,
it’s a PTBNL and maybe cash. but either andino or wiggy would have to be released. i’m betting andino.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
He hit like crazy this spring
With three homers, but he’s much worse than an old, wife beating “pro” like Lugo.
Can't Andino
Andino doesn’t have to be released does he? Since they released Moeller..
What up?
by snakethejake on Apr 1, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Moeller wasn't on the 40-man...
…or 25 man roster. Andino doesn’t have to be released, but he would have to clear waivers since he’s out of options.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
That's right
I forgot about Moeller not being on the roster anway, but they will probably put Andino on waivers to purchase Ohman’s contract.
What up?
by snakethejake on Apr 1, 2010 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions
it'd be like the most complicated prank ever
and that would be great. The more complex and infuriatingly Goldsbergian a prank, the better.
Alas, I think this one is real.
Bedard says he doesn't care and thinks goals are pointless.
the orioles website said he got traded to us and we just released chad moeller
by baltimorebeatdown on Apr 1, 2010 11:23 AM EDT reply actions
andino sucks. he's terrible.
and lugo is old, but i’m ok with a utility infielder who will probably punch up a .340 OBP. roberts is going to need some time off this season.
And punch his wife while he's at it.
Yuk.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
yeah, that sucks
but it happened in 2003, right? 7 years is a long time. i can’t pretend to know how their relationship has been since then. plus, i’m done pretending these guys are role models or good people. a lot of pro athletes are pricks. that’s just the way it is.
Big difference between being a prick and a batterer
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
there are some coaches in professional sports who hold enough respect
to command a “zero tolerance” policy. Tony Dungy was able to pull it off. It is possible to have a successful team of non-assholes.
Yeah
He can manage that when he has Peyton Manning leading his team into success!
What up?
by snakethejake on Apr 1, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont know why everyone is so against / down on this? We’re paying him the league min. (Red Sox are on the hook for the other $8.5+ mil) and acquired him for nothing. The correlating move was to send Aubrey down; and was he really expected to have an impact on the roster? No.
Did the talent level of the team improve? Yes.
Did the O’s bench just become slightly deeper? Yes.
Is this a long-term commitment? No.
Did the O’s subtract from the core / future to get this done? No.
This move shows me that BRob’s back is worse than they’re letting on. Lugo and Andino will split 2B duties, if BRob’s out, until one grabs it for sure. Then the other goes back to utility role. How is that a bad thing?
"If you want money, go to the bank. If you want bread, go to the bakery. If you want goals, go to the net." - Brooks Laich
"...I got the most gentlemanly player in juniors my last year. I'm a gentleman, always a gentleman." - Matt Bradley
Actually, no, I don't think that's it
Andino could really only spell Izzy at SS – he’s not much of a 2B. Plan B was either Wiggy or Turner. Lugo is an improvement baseball-wise over those two. But I’m going to have a hard time cheering for a guy who hits his wife.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
Enough of the wife beating talk
It was 2003. He was found not guilty of the charges and his wife admitted that she exagerated the abuse charges anyway. Let’s not condemn the man if we don’t know what we’re talking about.
victims often recant out of fear
even if she “exaggerated” the story (which is not necessarily true), the fact is she wound up with a bruised and bloodied forehead and the car had a smashed windshield.
that this took place 7 years ago is relevant why? A: it’s not.
nor is his being found not guilty. that’s not the same as not being guilty.
bottom line: you don’t know, i don’t know, but where there’s smoke…..
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
No, it's not enough
I’m going to bitch about it, probably every time he’s in a game, from now until he’s no longer on this team.
A .280 BA is not worth hiring a man who batters women. Period. I don’t give a shit if it was last week or 7 years ago or two decades ago. I used to take pride that the Orioles didn’t have bad character guys (asides from Albert Belle and his bat-loading self). Now I’m in a position where I have to either root for a man who hits women or hope he fails, and possibly leading to a loss by my beloved team.
There are plenty of middle IF we could have gotten that haven’t left women in need of an ER visit after a fight.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
ok, let me put it to you this way, and this might not make that much sense...
you like pro sports. well, pro sports are full of people who lead lives of privilege. they make a ton of money, women fall all over them, their mistakes are covered up. i would bet that every single team – seriously, every single one of them – has at least one player who roughed up their wife or pushed a girl a little (or a lot) too far. every team has multiple players who have driven home drunk and could have killed someone on the way.
so what bothers me a bit about your stance on this is that you must know this all to be true, but you reserve your scorn for someone who was actually caught. you should hold contempt for every team out there, because they all employ a batterer or rapist or drunk driver or name your horrific crime – in a league of 1,000 men of privilege and money and roid rage, there are many skeletons in many closets. you’re zeroing in on lugo because he got caught. if you don’t know who committed crimes like this, but you know they happened, shouldn’t you reject the entire system of pro sports that still employs them and enables them? or maybe you should hate american society as a whole, which doesn’t punish hard enough and continues to employ men who beat their wives every day? shouldn’t you walk around mad at tons of people? or are you only specifically mad at lugo because he got caught?
i’ve come to grips with the fact that baseball players and actors and rock stars are entertainers who i would probably have no interest in hanging around with in my everyday life. many of them end up being terrible people, even if they didn’t start out that way. but i’m not going to stop watching movies and sports and listening to music, so unless we find out that lugo is currently doing something wrong, then i’m willing to let what happened 7 years ago be between him and his wife.
Huh?
So you’re extrapolating from the fact that there are some people in pro sports who do bad things and get caught to assume that there’s lots of people of who do bad things, and then use that as evidence that we shouldn’t hold any of them responsible?
the world's a fucked up place
you should probably just accept it and move on. do you really doubt that professional athletes commit crimes without being caught? do you really doubt that many people in mainstream society commit crimes without being caught? it’s friday night – how is everyone getting home from the bar tonight? something like 60% of rapes are unreported. a study done in 2000 found that approximately 1.3 million women are victims of domestic abuse each year. and again, it’s an under-reported crime.
if your spouse does bad things, get him/her help. if your friends do bad things, get them help or find new friends. if julio freaking lugo did something stupid and awful 7 years ago, i wouldn’t waste too much time getting outraged about it. there are many people closer to you in your own, actual life who are doing terrible things as we speak, so maybe worry about them and let lugo’s own family worry about him. i’m not justifying the act. but it strikes me as absurd to demand accountability from one guy because he 1) got caught and 2) plays on your favorite baseball team while ignoring the prevalence of domestic abuse across the U.S.
and please, don’t give me a line about holding them responsible. duck isn’t holding anybody responsible for anything. julio lugo doesn’t know who duck is and probably wouldn’t care about your opinion, duck’s opinion, or my opinion if he did come across us. duck’s outrage makes him feel better about the situation. it doesn’t do anything for mrs. lugo.
Who said anything about doubting that people do bad things or wanting to make Mrs. Lugo feel better?
He just doesn’t want to root for a guy who beat his wife. Not sure how you’re making this into a much bigger argument about society’s ills.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Sometimes, the correct answer is the easiest
Thank you, O’sFan21
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
maybe i misunderstood
but it seems to be a bigger backlash than simply not wanting to root for him. root FOR whoever you want, that’s your business. i was just pointing out that it’s inconsistent and pointless to waste time and energy actively rooting AGAINST julio lugo when there are plenty of other people in our lives who get a free pass on similar offenses.
I have a policy
of not rooting FOR people who beat their spouses. Call me crazy, but that’s how I roll.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
but you do.
you just don’t know about it. any time you root for a team, there’s a pretty damn good chance that you’re rooting for someone who has done something bad in the past.
but i don’t think you’re getting my point and honestly, it doesn’t matter all that much. you can hate lugo if you want. i’ll spend the season mostly ignoring him.
So because we dont know every person has ever committed a crime
means we have to support those we know for sure have? I’m not sure i see the logic there/
the logic is pretty simple
you don’t know hardly anything about julio lugo. you don’t know the context of what happened in 2003. you don’t know what he did. you don’t know what his wife did. you don’t know what their relationship has been like for the previous 7 years. so that’s one reason that it’s a big waste of your time to get worked up over julio lugo.
second, to get worked up over a single perpetrator of a widespread issue is silly. it’s like coming out guns blazing against palmeiro because he tested positive for steroids but being perfectly content to cheer every other juicebag who wasn’t actually caught and act like they must be clean because they never failed a test. there are other wife beaters in MLB. this is a fact.
third, it’s completely self-serving to root against julio lugo. he doesn’t give a fuck. the orioles don’t give a fuck. 99% of the orioles’ fans don’t give a fuck. mlb doesn’t give a fuck. so you’ve worked yourself up over something that you have zero impact on, every at bat, all year long. it’s a waste of your time. you think you’re being noble or something, but you’re just taking incredibly imperfect information about a situation and about a group of people who you never have met and never will meet and making judgments and allowing it to impact your day to day disposition. what’s the point? how does that make your life any better? how does that make mrs. lugo’s life any better?
by joet on Apr 4, 2010 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
third, it’s completely self-serving to root against julio lugo. he doesn’t give a fuck. the orioles don’t give a fuck. 99% of the orioles’ fans don’t give a fuck. mlb doesn’t give a fuck. so you’ve worked yourself up over something that you have zero impact on, every at bat, all year long. it’s a waste of your time. you think you’re being noble or something, but you’re just taking incredibly imperfect information about a situation and about a group of people who you never have met and never will meet and making judgments and allowing it to impact your day to day disposition. what’s the point? how does that make your life any better? how does that make mrs. lugo’s life any better?
If this is true, isnt this an argument against following sports entirely? Of course they dont care what I think about anything. But you know who does care? Me. And i dont feel good about rooting for someone who I know hit their wife. Of course its self-serving, but so is being a sports fan.
you don't "know" anything.
he was found not guilty. we have no idea what actually happened. i take it you weren’t there, right? we do still live in a society where people are innocent until proven guilty, right?
and i’m totally fine with self-serving when it’s positive. pro sports ARE dumb when you really think about it. but so what, get caught up in it. debate the merits of the hit and run, get excited if we’re in first place on june 1, go sit in the stands with your dad and enjoy yourselves. but there are a billion other things in the world to get offended by. your favorite team hiring someone who might have done something you find objectionable 7 years ago is a waste of your time.
by joet on Apr 4, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree.
Obviously domestic violence is deplorable and completely unacceptable. But anyone who has been in a relationship knows that objectivity is probably the first thing that flies out the window when a couple gets to arguing.
We have no idea what happened and, more importantly, it’s none of our business. If he’s convicted of a crime or there’s something more solid to go on regarding this or other unacceptable behavior then that would obviously be a bigger issue. But who the hell knows what happens with things like this? The “where there’s smoke there’s fire argument” is not sufficient in a just society.
Me no likey.
In one game as a freshman at Miami, Wieters hit a two-run homer in the top of the ninth to put the Yellow Jackets ahead, then pitched the bottom of the ninth for the save. On that day, the God nickname was bestowed. - Sports Illustrated
Unofficial Leader of the Brain Matusz For ROY Campaign
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Apr 1, 2010 6:12 PM EDT reply actions
So, who gets cut loose?
Andio has three homers this spring and is a good back up at short and…tolerable at second and in center.
You can’t just add Lugo and expect that no one is cut. It’s Wigginton or Andino at this point. Who loses?
I’m just annoyed. Plus, Lugo is not a good defensive shortstop and his offensive skills aren’t even on par with Brandon Fahey.
I realize you are probably exaggerating for effect
But Lugo is light years ahead of Fahey offensively. It’s not even close. Neither is really good, but Fahey was a mess.
ew, hate this signing
i like andio’s bat/glove style swagger everything over old man julio
"you know what the orioles could use right now? a day off." - joe angel
This was a good acquisition.
If he remains the same player he’s been he’s one of the best utility guys in the league. If he returns to pre 2008 form – even just defensively – he’s a pretty good player and could supplant Izturis. If not or if neither there’s really no downside as he can be cut pretty easily and doesn’t cost much in terms of salary or acquisition cost.
The best news is this is the type of acquisition teams looking to contend try to make.
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
i dont think julio lugo
is helping anyone contend for anything anytime soon
"you know what the orioles could use right now? a day off." - joe angel
by swilhelmross on Apr 3, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
While he's clearly not a cornerstone piece
I would maintain he’s a useful player.
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
I'm not sure he even could realistically supplant Andino if there was a straight up competition
much less Izturis
I’m glad someone else in here put on thier big boy brain when evaluating this move. …
I understand if some here are against this because of Lugo’s personal failures years ago, but the fact of the matter is the team is improved with him on the roster as the utility guy. Lugo >>> Andino and there’s no argument to that. Andino’s strong suit, defense, still isn’t as good as Lugo’s weak spot, defense. The team said this much this ST.
Look, if there was a squeaky clean utility guy available this late in ST im sure all would want him. Unfortunately this was what was available and in the end it helps the overall roster and make-up of the team.
As i said before, did we give up anything to get him? no. Are we even paying him anything? No. Like him or hate him it doesn’t matter, he’s on the O’s now. Do you haters really want to go back 2 years ago when we had like 6 super-shitty SS’s rotating in and out? exactly. I’ll take Lugo over any of the other options.
"If you want money, go to the bank. If you want bread, go to the bakery. If you want goals, go to the net." - Brooks Laich
"...I got the most gentlemanly player in juniors my last year. I'm a gentleman, always a gentleman." - Matt Bradley
Huh?
Andino’s strong suit, defense, still isn’t as good as Lugo’s weak spot, defense. The team said this much this ST.
I think Andino is dramatically better at defense than Lugo. As has been pointed out.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Lugo's defense is appalling
and there is a strong argument that its so appalling that his additional offense does not improve his team. things like 3 greater than signs does not negate the argument.
I don't know that his defense is all *that* bad.
There is certainly some reason to think he can be a near average shortstop, especially in a part time role. He posted a +4.3 UZR there in his last full season as a SS in 2008.
You can characterize his recent struggles as decline/age. That could very well be true. Its far from the only possible answer. I’m not sure we have sufficient data to tell for sure. Lugo has suffered from a number of injuries in recent years. Edgar Renteria went to Boston and had an awful year due to a back injury (he described the feeling as if he had a steel rod in his back IIRC). A rush judgment was made and he was shipped off to Atlanta – where he promptly became a good player again. Lugo isn’t all that old (34). His skills have certainly diminished, but he could very well suprise with a decent year where he provides a modicum of value for this Orioles team. Once again, the O’s gave up pretty much nothing for him and pay him nothing.
I obviously wouldn’t characterize this is a low risk/high payoff acquisition. Its not one of those. It could easily end up a low risk/medium payoff acquisition. You need a few of those to be good. This one is pretty close to “no risk” rather than “low risk,” too.
Lugo has always made a lot of errors – but he had a LOT of range. The range diminished when he reached Boston… but hey, lets be honest here – the bar isn’t set very high for MLB SS. Either defensively or at the plate. Lugo could reasonably be productive with both the bat and glove in 2010 and I wouldn’t be surprised at all.
Bullpen Banter
www.bullpenbanter.com
twitter: @alskor
Technically, we're paying him the league minimum
of $400,000. In baseball terms, it’s ALMOST nothing, but it’s not nothing.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
There is certainly some reason to think he can be a near average shortstop, especially in a part time role. He posted a +4.3 UZR there in his last full season as a SS in 2008.
He played 81 games at SS in 2008. I think you mean 2005 above. His UZR has been negative 3 out of the last 4 years. And check his 2009 scouting data from Tango’s website. He’s brutal. We basically added another Ty Wigginton to the roster.
Too sexy for my hurt.
"I’m glad someone else in here put on thier big boy brain when evaluating this move. …"
Way to endear yourself in one of your first posts here.
Lugo sucks. Andino sucks. Andino sucks while not being accused of hitting women. I’ll take the guy who sucks who doesn’t hit women over the guy who sucks who does.
"The moment you stop thinking you're the best, it's time for you to get out the game." -'King' Mo Lawal
im sorry boss, but i’ve been posting in here for almost a year. i admit i dont do it often usually for this reason – the few pillars of this forum all get worked up and frieked out when i do post. I try to stay out of every day threads but this was one I couldn’t sit by because I didn’t think anyone was defending the move and sometimes it’s nice to hear/see an opposing view… back to the subject at hand…
we can agree on one thing – “lugo suck. andino sucks” but i still stand by my statement that the roster is improved with Lugo on it. Also, quick q, why so much focus on Lugo playing SS? Is no one else concerned about BRob’s all-of-a-sudden balky back? Perhaps Lugo will be seeing more time at 2B than SS. I don’t see him as a late game sub, but rather someone to spell BRob once a week and I feel more comfortable with him as that guy than Andino.
"If you want money, go to the bank. If you want bread, go to the bakery. If you want goals, go to the net." - Brooks Laich
"...I got the most gentlemanly player in juniors my last year. I'm a gentleman, always a gentleman." - Matt Bradley
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