DDDWTF for 5/25: Using Will Ohman in the 9th with a 4 run lead
by Stacey on May 26, 2010 10:01 AM EDT
in Commentary & Analysis
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It's been awhile since our last WTF update, but despite the Orioles win last night, I just can't get past Dave Trembley's decision to use Will Ohman in the 9th inning of the game with the Orioles winning 5-1. The Orioles bullpen has been in shambles and after an embarrassing series loss in Washington, I'd imagine Trembley was desperate for the win. But turning to Ohman in the 9th is the kind of move that will only hurt the Orioles in the long run.
The O Man has been a great pickup for the Orioles. He signed a minor league deal, earned a place on the team in spring training, and after a brief period early in the season of allowing inherited runners to score, has been quite good. The obvious problem with being an effective reliever in an ineffective bullpen is the potential for overuse. Will Ohman currently leads the American League in appearances by a reliever, with 25 in the O's 46 games. That's on pace for 88 games this year, which is ridiculous.
Ohman, in case you're not aware, pitched 83 games for the Braves in 2008. He then spent most of the 2009 season on the disabled list with a shoulder injury. It's not smart to use any reliever as often as Ohman is being used this year, but one with his recent injury history especially. In a game where the Orioles needed to get only three outs before allowing four runs, it was the perfect chance to give Ohman a rest and let another reliever take over. Trembley even could have left Mark Hendrickson in for another inning. He's a long reliever (he even made a start this year) and he had just thrown 21 pitches in two very effective innings.
In the post game press conference, someone asked Trembley if he thought about changing his bullpen plan when the Orioles scored two extra runs in the 8th inning. Trembley did not, he wanted to bring in Ohman to close things out even with the four run lead because he's the best pitcher out there. I was dying for someone, anyone, to follow up with, "Doesn't it concern you using Ohman so much this year? He has a history of injury and leads the AL in appearances." We can all predict how Trembley would have answered, but I still wanted to hear the question asked.
It was was a good win for the Orioles, but I don't look forward to August when Will Ohman has a dead arm, or worse, another shoulder injury.
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Ohman's on pace for 88 appearances
Thats a lot, and unneccesary. Even if it is just Ohman, he’s on pace for 15th most of all time. Pitching too frequently is just as big an issue as pitch count I believe (its been a while since I read about that stuff). If we cant trust him to not crush Ohman’s arm how are we going to be able to trust him with actual relievers?
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on May 26, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
at this rate, ohman's arm will fall off by the end of june
and we’ll be forced to sign jorge julio for the remainder of the season.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on May 26, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I realize it would be damn near impossible to find a manager who thinks the way I do but..
I hate the closer. I agree with the idea of saving your best reliever for the most crucial situation in a game but that situation is very rarely exclusive to the ninth inning. I can see saving your guy and having most of his appearances in the ninth. But using him only in the ninth when you already often have three or four run leads is a waste of your best reliever.
you keep saying this.
This is not saying, “fire dave”. It’s saying, “Hold Dave accountable for his decisions”.
Stacey gets it perfectly right: The question needs to be asked. Do you think it doesn’t need to be asked?
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
having brian matusz come on and pitch the ninth would also have likely won the game
that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
I don't know if it was a WTF
but….his reason given (per Roch) sure is:
“We don’t have a bona fide closer,” he said. “If you have a bona fide closer in the ninth, you probably don’t bring a guy in when it’s a four-run lead, when it’s not a save situation. But I think you’ve got to bring in the best guy you have in that situation with experience.”
I’ve read that through a couple of times and it still makes absolutely no sense to me. So Will Ohman isn’t the closer, so he has to come in for the ninth when it isn’t a save situation? Huh?
Outs in baseball are like lives in Mario.
Every manager does it
But why in the world does anyone think it makes sense to use your closer based on a meaningless statistic? Who cares if it’s a save situation or not, if you need your best relief pitcher, then put him in. If you don’t, then don’t.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on May 26, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed and agreed.
But just to clarify, you do not need your best reliever when you are up four runs.
Yeah
Especially when facing Oakland. At home. With the 8,9, and 1 hitter coming up.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on May 26, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
haha this
I said in the other thread that I had no problem with Ohman being used, but I’m being converted. I had no idea he’d made that many appearances.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
this was my thought
yadda yadda the ninth is too much pressure for the new kid, went the line in today’s Sun. A 4 run lead is not high pressure. The pen is full of tired arms so you use the fresher one. Or stick with Hendo. But don’t act like you are Grover and O-man is Buddy Groom.
Has there ever been a cooler Oriole than Eddie Murray? I mean, just straight up cool. Like a bad, suave dude. You know what I'm sayin'. COOL. SC 7/24/08
The runner up should be batting b2b 2nd
Which is essentially like batting Atkins second but letting him use a Segway to run the bases.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Like Garrett ever gets to run the bases
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on May 26, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
well,
in all fairness, he did last night.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
Don't confuse me with your "facts"
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on May 26, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe he turned the corner....
…towards second, but then came back to first.
1-1/4 bases > 1 base.
So I think he ran the bases.
"I doubt he could reach [second base]...mostly cuz his fucking arm was in Aybar's nuts." – twistedlogic
lol
The future is not what it used to be.
by John Stephens on May 26, 2010 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
But the same base was involved in both touches...
so the singular BASE stands as correct usage. He ran the base.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
I just had an image...
of Gob from Arrested Development…..
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
by NewYorkOriole on May 26, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
It's all right.
I don’t mind this so much. With our bullpen troubles this year, I don’t mind nailing down a win. We’ve already lost four games in which we led going into the ninth. I’d rather have Ohman starting the ninth than bring him in than face the risk of him coming in with a run in, two on, and one out (for example).
Ideally Castillo would have come in and pitched a 1-2-3 ninth, saving the rest of the bullpen, but that’s not how it’s worked this year. Maybe I’m thinking more as a fan than as a manager, but how nice was it to have a quiet ninth?
Get rid of the save as an official statistic...
and use the “hold” instead. This would help to alleviate the quaint, but misguided custom of saving your best reliever strictly for the 9th inning.
"Those who believe in telekinetics, raise my hand." - Kurt Vennegut
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