Matt Wieters' Innings
by ahoque24 on Jun 1, 2010 3:01 PM EDT
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PrintThis is my first Fanpost, so please don't eat me alive.
My favorite thing to watch about the Orioles right now (there aren't too many to begin with) is watching the young players. We all know Matt Wieters isn't hitting too well, but I still enjoy seeing him at the plate, just knowing that he's a crucial part of this team's future. But I thought I noticed something: he's been playing a lot. The first time I noticed this was the first Sunday in the Orioles season, when Trembley still started him in a day game following a night game. But I wasn't sure if it was just me or if Wieters really was playing a lot for a catcher. Then Fangraphs answered that.
Fangraphs has a short paragraph on Wieters there, saying that it's a concern, but I wanted to say more for Orioles fans, as all this makes me wonder: Why exactly is Matt Wieters playing so much?
It's common knowledge that of all the position players, catchers need the most rest. Everybody knows how much wear the position has on a player's body. A catchers' need for rest is even higher when he's young, and even higher when he's tall. Wieters fits both categories. It's important that Wieters gets his at-bats, but the Orioles can't afford putting him behind the plate so much. As much as we all want to win, this year was never expected to be a competitive one for Baltimore. The Orioles need to find a balance between getting Wieters both the experience and rest he needs.
Look at those players again. As Fangraphs notes, Wieters is the youngest. The next youngest is Russell Martin. A few years ago Martin was one of the better hitting catchers in the Majors. The Dodgers overplayed him, and though we can't be sure this is the reason why, Martin has lost his power and is now in the lower half of catchers in terms of batting.
Wieters still hasn't developed into the hitter analysts think he's capable of becoming. He's not yet at the point Martin was at. Yes, playing him this much might not prevent him from becoming a good player. But playing him so much surely won't do any good for his career. It could shorten his career, or at least the time when he's in his prime. As I've said, the Orioles need to be more careful considering his size.
Playing Wieters so much would make more sense if the Orioles were contenders. But they aren't. Most expert opinions have predicted 2011 as the year the Birds are competitive again. That shows something, though: the Orioles could and should be contenders again. And Wieters is going to be a big part of that. So consider how much the Orioles have invested in Matt Wieters, and then consider the fact that right now the Orioles are a last place team with a manager almost surely on his way out. If you're like me, you might end up asking yourself this: What the hell is Dave Trembley doing?
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Great FanPost. I know that was of some concern earlier this year but it hasn’t been brought up lately. It’s certainly something worth paying attention to.
It’s been speculated that a lot of Trembley’s moves have been influenced by Andy MacPhail’s edict that this is the year to see more wins, and this could be one of them. If so, it’s another disturbing trend set in motion by the O’s FO.
Curious, why do young catchers need more rest than old catchers? I’ve never heard that before, and logically I’d assume they need less given the physical differences between a 24 year old and a 38 year old.
Thanks for welcoming me!
Maybe I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that younger catchers need more rest. Not more than old catchers (i.e. 38 year old), though, I was referring more to a catcher who’s, say, about 28 or 29. It’s not about any physical weaknesses, just about ensuring the player’s future.
Then again, I could be wrong about that.
It’s been speculated that a lot of Trembley’s moves have been influenced by Andy MacPhail’s edict that this is the year to see more wins, and this could be one of them. If so, it’s another disturbing trend set in motion by the O’s FO.
Even if this is true, I still think its Trembley’s fault and not the Front Office’s. If anything, its more evidence against Trembley for not realizing how to get the most success out of his roster. Resting Wieters isn’t just about the next 5-10 years of his career, its about making sure he’s fresh enough to perform at his best for the duration of THIS season. Any small advantage we may gain by overplaying Wieters is going to be wiped out when he’s exhausted by August. I’m not sure anyone on the coaching staff actually has that sort of foresight.
If you're like me, you might end up asking yourself this: What the hell is Dave Trembley doing?
Yup, the majority of us are like you then.
Also, Russel Martin lost his ability to hit for avg and power and he’s only 27.
Maybe the excessive catching is taking a toll on his body (even if he wont admit it maybe he’s got less energy) and this has made his swing slower and him a worse player. I wouldnt be surprised at all
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
Yeah, I know how you all feel about Trembley. I only started reading Camden Chat just before the season started, but I’ve been keeping track of the DDDWTF series.
A series which will be put to rest no later than next week, methinks.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Good question.
It definitely seems like a bad idea to have him catching so much. The last thing we want to do is to mess with the health of a guy we need to be productive over the next several years.
Even worse: this is the AL. We have a DH. There’s no reason why, if Dave wants Wieters’s bat in the lineup, he can’t just have him DH once a week. I don’t know exactly how much rest catchers need, but right now, he’s catching almost 6 out of every seven games. I’d much rather him catch 5, DH 1, and rest 1. Or rest even more than that, if need be. We’re not going contending this season; why not?
Maybe Dave’s been listening too much to all the “god” talk, and figures he only needs to rest on the seventh day…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
is there any evidence to support the idea that tall catchers need more rest?
I know it’s said over and over again, but I’ve never really seen anything scientific to support it.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Well the extra height/weight would definitely put more stress on the knees
Joints only have so many reps in them, I guess rest would extend his catching career. I’m not sure more rest just because he’s tall would necessarily improve his performance.
Eh
But his joints (including his knees) are bigger too – it’s not like he has the same joints as somebody who’s 5’9’".
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I'm no anatomy expert but,
i’m pretty sure the pressure increases exponentially while the stress the joints can withstand doesn’t. Bigger you are, the more joint problems you’ll have, especially when you put them in a stressful position like catching. Like i said i’m not sure this is a reason the lack of rest may be hurting his performance, but it probably can’t help.
I mean I guess that makes sense.
It just seems like one of those things that everybody assumes is true without ever seeing any evidence that actually supports it. I’ve always thought it was true too…
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I don't have evidence to show you
But I’m pretty sure there is plenty. I know that people are freakishly tall (I mean that literally, not in an insulting way) often have had a lot of health problems. And I know that the tallest of basketball players tend to have a lot of injury problems, so I figure there’s probably a good amount of truth to it.
The health problems`
are usually heart problems since the human heart isn’t built to pump blood that far. I’ve not heard of any of the ex-basketball players having knee problems unless they had knee injuries.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
arthritis maybe
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Get tougher.
With the exception of day after night games, Weiters should play every day. If he is going to be a big league catcher, he, like most of our present Orioles, have to get alot tougher. Look at the tenured backstops in our division alone for an example of what we should be expecting. It’s about training harder and looking at Posada, Veritek, Barajas as models. Weiters could be that good. Martin’s offensive numbers have been in steady decline since ’07. But he is vastly improved defensively and is walking a ton, likely management has curtailed his focus to be more stable behind the plate. Wonder if AM is having a look at Bob Melvin?
DWS
by DougWilliamsSisters on Jun 1, 2010 11:37 PM EDT reply actions
Those Catchers you mentioned?
Jorge Posada: 10 seasons as a starter (1999-2008), averaged 138 games/season
Jason Veritek: 9 Seasons as a starter (1999-2008, minus 2001), averaged 132 games/season
Rod Barajas: cant really do the math as easily, but has never played more than 125 in a season
Based on that, theres no argument that Wieters should be playing every day and should actually be getting at least 1 full day off a week, and probably DHing at least 1 more. “Get tougher” is a outdated attitude that simply gets players injured.
In baseball I want my team to preach
“Listen to your body” and not “get tougher”
For example, pitchers that pitch through pain usually alter their delievery and end up with a more devastating injury.
If exaustion is bringing down Wieters performance then we would be better off if he just had a little more time off so he could produce better numbers instead of just being out there every day. I’m not saying if you break a nail come crying to coach, but legitimate pain should always be addressed
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 2, 2010 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Ehh
There’s lots of different kinds of pain. You can’t pitch at any level without pitching through some pain. There’s pain that you need to worry about and there’s pain that you don’t. I think as an organization we should be preaching “Got pain? Talk to our training staff about it.” so they can determine whether it’s something to worry about or not.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Would love 138 games a season for 10 years.
To be clear. I’m not saying the O’s should take a Marlboro and misogynist brand of tough, I’m saying their training and conditioning programs have long been suspect. Haven’t been able to track down statistics about collective games missed because of the DL, but I’d bet my Reimold bobblehead that the O’s must be near the top of the league. Now we have a player in Weiters who is at a crucial place in development and he is showing signs of fatigue in the first week in June. Slumps happen, but they can be systemically curtailed by advanced, flexibility based conditioning. And just looking at his body size, has he ever played 1st?
DWS
by DougWilliamsSisters on Jun 2, 2010 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Way back when in like April
I was really pleased to see MW behind the plate in day games. It went against the grain of common practice. The decision made me happy. We had an independent, forward-thinking skipper at the helm. MW is young, strong and in need of work. He would be the cornerstone of the franchise. His youthful vigor would set the tone for the club. At the least, his bat should be out there every day.
Oh April….
Well now that the regular season is over and we have moved on to the rest of the season things have obviously changed. The rest of the season is actually more similar to spring training than it is to the regular season. There are no short term goals. Wins are oddly irrelevant. Identify the priority investments, keep them in optimal athletic form and on the most fruitful course of skill development. Showcase trade pieces and check out marginal talent while you have the chance.
Sigh.
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