Tuesday Bird Droppings
by Stacey on Jun 29, 2010 7:00 AM EDT
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Did everyone enjoy the off day? I love a day when the O's can't lose.
Orioles Insider: Dempsey, Wedge to interview with O's this week (updated) - baltimoresun.com
This was also posted in the open thread yesterday. Wedge was interviewed, but not in Baltimore. He'll meet MacPhail and Angelos Wednesday or Thursday. Dempsey interview Tuesday. -zk
Sunshine Trial against Sarasota County begins - WWSB ABC 7 Florida
Sarasota Citizens for Responsible Government is suing Sarasota County, three of its commissioners and the city of Sarasota, claiming they violated Florida's Sunshine Laws. The group says that happened during the negotiation to bring the Baltimore Orioles here for spring training. It's a deal that includes renovations to Ed Smith Stadium, which are currently underway. -zk
Bedard an option for pitching-hungry clubs? - CBSSports.com
Former Oriole Érik Bédard is slated to return the bigs on July 6. Just in time to audition for a midseason trade. -zk
Atkins taking flight from Orioles - CBSSports.com
"Garrett Atkins will not report to Baltimore's Triple-A club in Norfolk if he clears waivers and the team can't find a trade partner, he told the Baltimore Sun 's Jeff Zrebiec ." No, really? What a shocker. -zk
Phillies-Orioles Shaping up as Trade Partners?| CSN Philly
A look at what the Phillies might like from the Orioles (Millwood, Guthrie, Ohman), but sadly no word on what the O's could get from them. -Stacey
Eric Wedge has great interview with Baltimore Orioles - MLB - SI.com
According to Jon Heyman, Wedge has a "real shot" at getting the job. But it IS Jon Heyman, so who knows. -Stacey
Athletics-Orioles Preview - June 28, 2010 - MLB - CBSSports.com
The A's are in town for three. CBS Sports breaks it down. -Stacey
Orioles Card "O" the Day: Jamie Moyer, 1994 Donruss #547
A great number of facts about the ageless Jamie Moyer. -Stacey
Berken feeling at home in O's bullpen | Green Bay Press Gazette
Berken gets some love from his home town. -Stacey
And in the minors...
Norfolk lost to Louisville 7-2, but Nolan Reimold hit a home run.
Bowie swept a double header from the Erie SeaWolves 10-9 and 3-2
Frederick lost to Wilmington, 4-3. LJ Hoes went 0-5 with a strikeout.
The Shorebirds were rained out
The IronBirds beat the Staten Island Yankees, 4-2, thanks to a 2 run HR from Kipp Schutz and an RBI double by Michael Flacco.
The GCL Orioles scored two in the top of the 9th but lost to the GCL Twins 4-3
Tides' Reimold mired in yearlong slump | PilotOnline.com
"I've been thinking about calling someone up there and asking them to stop putting my average up," the Norfolk Tides outfielder said. "This is the last place in the world I expected to be this year: here in Norfolk, batting .150. I have never gone through anything like this in my life." -zk (and awww...he needs a hug -Stacey)
Britton Named Pitcher of the Week | Bowie Baysox News
Baysox starter Zach Britton was named the Eastern League Pitcher of the Week for the week ending June 27. Well done, Zach! -Stacey
Orioles Insider: Brady gives Reimold a helping hand, Britton heads to Triple-A
Brady Anderson tries to help Nolan Reimold get his act together and Zach Britton gets promoted to Norfolk before I get a chance to go see him in Bowie. -Stacey
Rocky Hill’s Egan promoted in Orioles' farm system - The Bristol Press
Relief pitcher Pet Egan, a 36th round draft pick in 2006, was promoted to AAA Norfolk. -Stacey
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like the article said — guts is cheap and he’s a workhorse. great guy to have in the rote. makes NO sense for Os to trade him (and that’s why they will.)
Sure it does
he’s probably the most valuable trade chip, and the Orioles would be selling high on a guy who just a year ago was awful and at 31 might not be solid too much longer.
Of course, it all depends on possible returns, but I’m all in favor of trading Guthrie.
Fire Julio Lugo.
As everyone says
Guts would be good away from the AL East and especially in the NL. I thnk he is good – just not good for this team. Shame. Hopefully other teams see that.
A year ago he still pitched 200 innings for us
That’s not nothing. Not when you are shit like we are.
Though, by all means, for the right return, deal him.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
We should trade Guthrie
We can not win with him. So why keep him around? Because he “eats” innings? If we can get a couple of young prospects we have to make that move. If nothing more than free Guthrie to join and organization that could give him a chance at a ring while he is still in his prime.
For the 2011 Amateur Draft the Baltimore Orioles take Anthony Rendon, 3B, Rice Univ with the drafts first pick.
We can not win with him
What the hell? Guthrie’s under control inexpensively for two more years. He’s our best pitcher this year. You don’t think we can win in 2012? I’m not saying it’s a definite, but it’s certainly not given that we won’t, either.
Guthrie shouldn’t be traded until his pre-FA year unless the offer is overwhelming. It has to be more than just “prospects”. It has to be blue-chip prospects who will contribute to the team in the next year or two or current ML-ready players.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
This looks awesome.
Mi firma está escrito en español!
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jun 29, 2010 7:22 AM EDT reply actions
Wiggi's stock
peddey is out 6 weeks, Utley is hurt – if only he could remember how to hit this seires it actually might rise.
Hahaha.
I somehow knew you weren’t going to be happy about that.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
I don't know
on the one hand, the guy has some platoon issues and ought to get as much work in on his off-speed stuff as possible before moving on. On the other hand, he’s been so completely dominant in the Eastern League that maybe giving him an extra challenge isn’t such a bad idea. I don’t know.
I had heard that he was told to use his changeup a lot more, and that coincided with his last couple of devastatingly good starts. And if I know anything its that correlation implies causation. Either way, I don’t suppose that he gets ruined or anything by getting called up to Norfolk.
Fire Julio Lugo.
Eh
This promotion schedule didn’t work for Matusz, didn’t work for Arrieta, but by all means, let’s do it with Britton. With any luck, he can be in the majors and getting shelled by September.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
by James F on Jun 29, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure I follow you
Matusz skipped AAA, so where’s the comparison there? Are you simply referring to in-season promotions? I’d argue that for one thing, these are all three very different types of pitchers and pigeonholing them all into one mind-set (e.g. that this didn’t work with Matusz so we shouldn’t do it with Britton) doesn’t make a ton of sense. I’m also not sure what you mean exactly when you say it “didn’t work” for those guys, so if you could elaborate, I’d appreciate it.
Fire Julio Lugo.
I think AA is the most important year of a prospect's career
And I think the O’s treat it like a formality to be rushed through as quickly as possible. The biggest divide in minor league talent is between A+ and AA. And sure, they are all different types of pitchers, but Matusz, Erbe, Arrieta and now Britton have all spent only about half a season in AA each, and for all of the ones we have data on from higher levels, that has shown at best mixed results.
All of them are different types of pitchers. But our player development department is the same, and I don’t think they have earned my trust in believing that they are able to properly determine when a pitcher has mastered AA. In fact, the only O’s prospects of late who have shown improved performance after AA have been Reimold and Tillman, who happen to be the two prospects who got a full year in AA (and of course, Reimold and Tillman didn’t get a full season in AAA). Everyone else – Wieters included – who had only a partial season in AA has seen lesser performance in Norfolk and beyond.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I agree
I absolutely agree with you on Brandon Erbe, who WAS pushed through AA despite injuries and middling results disguised in low BABiP and deflated ERA. And now he’s a mess. It was a rush-job (not unlike the rush job with Bergesen’s jerking around being shuttled, but that’s a different show).
And I’ve heard from basically everyone who knows that AA is The Most Important Development Year, with the biggest jump in talent coming between A+ and AA, so I’ll have to take that as a fact, too. And yep – the Orioles have been rushing their guys through that particular level.
But, when you look indivudally at all of them, you sort of wonder. Like, obviously Wieters wasn’t going to learn anything more by sticking around at Bowie for another couple of weeks. He put up like the best season ever in 2008 in the EL.
Everything we had heard about Matusz said that his stuff would completely dominate minor league hitters in a way that didn’t challenge him to develop, so at some point you have to say “Well, you need to figure this out against hitters who are going to challenge you”. I don’t think we should just look at his first 23 starts where he has struggled and say “Well, his development plan didn’t work out at all” because he’s obviously not a finished product. Like I said, I’m not deaf to your criticisms…but that doesn’t automatically mean Britton isn’t ready for AAA. Like I said, I don’t know. I do know that I don’t want to see him in B’more in 2010.
Fire Julio Lugo.
Agree with everything you said.
Erbe was definitely rushed, and he had been getting lucky throughout the minors. Wieters was clearly way too talented for AA, and the same with Matusz. Eventually you have to set them free to the majors and let them figure it out and make adjustments.
I dunno if Wieters would have improved or not
One thing I think about is Strasburg’s start last night. You let people see enough of you, they learn about your strengths and weaknesses and adjust to you. One of the benefits that I think spending a full season at each level offers is that it gives you a chance to see your prospects against the same competition multiple times. Maybe AA pitchers would have seen more of Matt’s swing and been able to exploit him better. Maybe AA would have adjusted to Britton’s increased use of the changeup after they had seen more of it.
Obviously, no one size fits all notion is going to always be right. At the same time, lots of prospects have been ruined by virtue of being rushed. Few to none have been ruined by letting them take a more relaxed, Chase Utley/Ryan Howard approach to the minors. And as they say, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
by James F on Jun 29, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Quantum mechanics says
that defintion of insanity doesn’t make any sense. Just sayin’.
Just to clarify: of course all else being equal, I’d want him tog et as much experience at one level at a time, working on making counter-adjustments and so on. I definitely agree that you’re at a lot less risk by being conservative with your prospects (and Britton may very well be one of the best around come January), but simply because Brandon Erbe has struggled in AAA, and Arrieta/Matusz/Tillman/Wieters have yet to find their footing in the bigs doesn’t automatically make this a mistake in my mind.
Fire Julio Lugo.
Sure...
…it isn’t automatically a mistake. Anything could happen.
Quantum mechanics murdered Schrödinger’s cat – like I’m going to listen to it!
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
this is why i love this website.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Ah...
Quantum Mechanics jokes…..as zk said, this is why this website is so awesome….
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
by NewYorkOriole on Jun 29, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
But who looked at it?
Not me
"People who write about spring training not being necessary have never tried to throw a baseball."
Sandy Koufax
by Birdland in NC on Jun 29, 2010 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
My problem with this, is that you're lowering their ceiling.
Ryan Howard’s ceiling is done and gone, he hit his peak in his 2nd year, and he’s never been close to that since. I’m not sure what the number is off the top of my head, but the older a player is when he makes his debut, the lower his chances are of being a great player.
The Chase Utley’s, and Randy Johnson’s are outliers, there are far more that never make it.
And also, check out Chase Utley’s minor league stats. He skipped AA, after a good, not great season in A+
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=utley-002cha
I think what we're going to find out
by diggin through all of these minor league histories is that there is no guaranteed standard way to make development 100% effective, nor 100% defective. It’s definitely a lot more complicated than year-by-year advancement or rushing or whathaveyou.
Fire Julio Lugo.
I agree, which is kinda what I'm trying to say.
You can’t compare one prospect with another, everyone is completely different.
Although I think we can all agree that Mike Stanton and his 48K% was rushed to the majors.
I'm not a fan of skipping AAA
but again, exceptions: Nick the Stick did it. Mike Leake did it. Uhh…John Olerud did it.
Fire Julio Lugo.
i think
it’s a lot more about th ecoaching you receive at that level; particularly when things go bad.
after hitting a three-week slump, you’re in despair. the coach in one AA system tells you to wait another three weeks before you change your stance. another says to tinker with it now until you improve. at a critical point in your career, which system you’re in matters as much (if not more) than what level you’re at.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I agree with this too.
I think Wieters, Matusz, Tillman, et.al showed that they were too good for the minors, but have struggled in the majors, which might have something to do with the player development at the major league level.
You aren't lowering their ceiling
You are diminishing their shot at the Hall of Fame, which isn’t the same thing.
Yes, HOFers are the players who debuted when they were younger – in part because they are the players who are so much more talented that they can compete at a major league level very early, but also largely because the HOF is determined largely by counting stats that accumulate the longer that you play. Which is why in this thread we’re talking about Moyer for the Hall – he’s pitched forever, so he has impressive career totals. But while Howard being in the bigs earlier might have given him another 70 career homers, I don’t know of any evidence that would indicate he’d likely have been a better player over the course of his career if he’d been in the majors sooner.
Good catch on Utley and AA, but you’ll see he still had over two season in AAA.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I didn't mean counting-stats Hall of Famers,
I meant legitimate Hall of Famers, and lets be honest, Jamie Moyer is not a Hall of Famer. He’s had a great career, and is awesome, but he’s not a Hall of Famer, not really even close.
Utley really had about 1 1/2 seasons in AAA, he was called up in the 2nd season. And while I can’t prove this, I would guess that the only reason he was held back for a 2nd season was because he had a .263 BA in the first season. In the 2nd year, he was dominating the league and they called him up. He then struggled a little in the majors/minors in 2003 and 2004 before breaking out in 2005.
As far as Howard, check out his minor league numbers. http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=howard001rya
He split a year in AA and AAA, and spent less than a 1/2 season in AAA. He was so old when he started in the minors that it doesn’t really apply, but think about it like this. His best year was easily 2006, when he was 27 years old. It was his 3rd year, and he had put up 2.7 WAR up to that point, he put up 6.5 WAR that year. He’s since had 3 good years, and is well into his decline by now. So his total value is going to be somewhere in the mid 30 WAR’s most likely, although I’m just guessing.
Witness, in contrast, Nick Markakis, who started in the majors at 22. He will have 3 more full season of 3-4 WAR by the time he gets to his prime, which means that, all things equal between the 2, which they won’t be, Nick will be worth at least 12 more wins over his career.
Wait what?
What about Strasburg’s start last night? I didn’t get that part.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
We might see him anyway.
As for when Britton will get the opportunity to live it out on a Major League mound, the 22-year-old lefty thinks he could get a call from the Orioles later this season. He had a meeting during Spring Training with director of player development John Stockstill, assistant director of player development Tripp Norton, Minor League pitching coordinator Dave Schmidt and director of international scouting Dave Stockstill. Britton told them he understands the philosophy behind developing him at every level every year, but said “I feel like I’m ready to get pushed a little bit.”
“They told me if I get the changeup to where I need to and develop my pitches that I’d probably get an opportunity at some point this year,” Britton said. “Sometimes those things have to work themselves out before you get an opportunity, and I perfectly understand that. … Unfortunately we’re having a terrible year, so I think I’m going to get an opportunity at some point. I’ve just got to keep pitching well, and at the end of the day, I think from what they’ve told me that I’ll get a chance if I pitch to the caliber that I am so far.”
Britt Ghiroli thinks it’s likely, too:
I got a few emails asking if we will see Britton at some point this season. In my opinion, that’s a yes. He will likely be a September call-up, and depending on what the Orioles do at this year’s Trade Deadline could be in Baltimore even earlier. This spring, the organization made it clear the kid gloves are off and told Britton if all goes well he could reach the Majors this season.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
i don't see a problem with a september callup
if the kid is dominating, let him have his cup of coffee. with the idea that he’s still in ht eminors for the first half of 2011.
my problem would be if he’s even mildly successful, they’d probably keep him in the bigs next April.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
If he shows he's ready,
then my only issue would be the whole starting his service clock thing. But he has to dominate AAA to show me he’s ready first.
yeah, I saw that too
I’m skeptical, but reserving judgement.
Since when does
Britt’s opinion mean anything?
Insert something witty here.
by Knubles and Bits on Jun 29, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Reimold and Tillman probably arent the ones you want to prove your point with right now
and I’m not sure when you think the right time to promote these guys are. If they’re dominating their league over a solid sample size, than you should move them up so they can get a challenge.
I think you’re biggest issue with Britton is his platoon split, correct? But it’s not like righties have been killing him, according to minor league splits, he has a sub-4 FIP against them. Also, from what I’ve read most of that damage came in April and May when he was learning to throw the change-up, and he’s been much better in June, where he has an overall 2.98 FIP, by the way.
My biggest concern is his secondary pitches
His platoon split is only interesting to me as a reflection on his secondary stuff.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Oh, ok, well he's got a plus slider, that's his out-pitch
but his change-up probably still needs work, however, he’s getting AA batters out with it, so I’d bring him up to have the better hitters challenge him with it.
dominating your league doesn't amout to squat
if you’re doing it with one or two pitches.
one thing the minors are for is to develop third and fourth pitches, which takes more than a month or two.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I agree, he needs to work on his change-up,
but if it’s getting AA hitters out, then he needs to work on it against AAA hitters.
And as far as 2 pitches, I know that this is a huge outlier, but Randy Johnson only had 2 pitches, fastball and slider, so it is possible.
only for someone who throws really, really hard
or someone who has maddux-like control.
in other words, not most pitchers.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I know, that's why I said he was a huge outlier.
and he definitely needs to work on his change against righties, but he needs to do it against competition that will challenge him.
*first he being randy johnson
*second he being britton
don't agree
it’s harder to truly “work” on something (change grips, arm slots, whatever) if you’re getting shelled every time you throw it. the place to work on something is against lesser competition, and then refine it against better competition.
I know, i know, semantics. Britton probably needs to focus easy as well.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I'd imagine
(not to change horses) the recent BABiP-induced hot streak has everyone a little bit looser.
Fire Julio Lugo.
they did have a very long BABIP-induced cold streak
so they kinda deserve it I think
disagree
If you’re dominating weak competition with something weak, you need to go to a higher level to find out what you need to get better at and make adjustments
The perfect case
is David Hernandez, who was destroying minor leaguers with stuff that just didn’t have much chance of getting the Yankees or anybody else out. And I think for his development he needed to come up and get beat up in order to really understand what adjustments he needed to make (not that he necessarily did them, or that this model necessarily fits for anyone else)
Fire Julio Lugo.
fair point
i think there’s just a difference between working on something (like actually building a fourth pitch) and refining it (by which I mean tweaks). You do the former against chumps, and the latter against real competition.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I truly agree
Learning a new pitch is like rebuilding a golf swing. One’s performance suffers until the new physical motion is learned. But, performance improves after that. My gripe is that a young player in the big leagues won’t throw the new pitch because it is not grooved. So, he never learns it.
What I really object to is all of this Norflok shuttle stuff. All of the confusion and inconsistency can’t be good for a developing player.
Your right,
I hate the send them down for a start, bring them up for 2 starts, send them down again approach that theyre doing for Tillman and Bergesen.
Well
it’s not like Britton will suddenly not work on it just because he’s at AAA instead of AA. The development doesn’t just stop – the goal wasn’t to get promoted to AAA, or even to get promoted to the bigs. The goal is to become the absolute best pitcher possible. The development doesn’t end until then.
Fire Julio Lugo.
Also, when I say dominating their league,
I mean their peripherals are dominating their league. I did not think Arrieta was ready for the majors because he had a scary-high walk rate. 4 starts in and his walk rate is a Daniel Cabrera-esque 5.5 BB/9.
We seem to rush our pitchers to the majors to fast
The flaws in our player development system must be addressed. I would like to see some of these young pitchers (Tillman, Britton, Erbe etc) remain in the minors long enough to ‘Learn" how to pitch, gain arm strenghth, and develop all pitches before being moved up to AAA and the majors. We don’t do a good job developing our prospects.
For the 2011 Amateur Draft the Baltimore Orioles take Anthony Rendon, 3B, Rice Univ with the drafts first pick.
Jamie Moyer
I saw something the other day where he has won like 155 games since his 35th birthday. Imagine if he didn’t get off to such a slow start in his career.
Insert something witty here.
by Knubles and Bits on Jun 29, 2010 8:44 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Dare we start a Jamie Moyer HoF debate?
I know I’m biased, because he’s one of my favorite players, but I think there’s a serious case for him to be in there. If the Hall is just for the best-of-the-best, then yeah, he probably doesn’t. But his career is so unique, and his longevity is astounding, and his success with his skillset is one-of-a-kind — I can’t help but think he has a place there.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
Definitely debatable.
You will have critics cry that he isn’t the best of the best. No denying that what he has done with and 80 mph fastball is nothing short of incredible though.
Insert something witty here.
by Knubles and Bits on Jun 29, 2010 10:03 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yes
It’s not just the best of the best. It’s the hall of FAME. Extreme longevity should count.
If Moyer is pitching effectively in the majors at the age of 50, he should be in the Hall regardless of his career stats. Just because he’s such an anomaly.
They could have a special shrine for him alongside the universal access ramp.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
not even close
he’s had a great career and he’s awesome. But that does not = Hall of Fame. He’s had 6 seasons when he was an above average pitcher, and 1 season when he should have been a legit All-Star, longevity does not equal greatness.
it's not the hall of greatness
it’s the hall of fame.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Deion Sanders was a pretty famous ballplayer
so, since it’s the hall of FAME, should he be in?
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
by daveh873 on Jun 29, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
not sure what that means...
Is Pete Rose famous? Shoeless Joe Jackson? Those two should be in the Hall of Fame anyway, but what about Roger Maris? Fernando Valenzuela? Mark Fidrich? I could go on and on about famous players not in the Hall of Fame. It should be the Hall of Greatness.
Hall of Fame arguments kind of bore me
but anyone who can actually get batters out in this century with a 80 mph junkball with Moyer’s consistency (even at a 5.00ish ERA) is pretty damn great in my book.
Of course in my book Sinkerballers > Junkballers > Power arms > everything else. I like to be entertained in that way.
Fire Julio Lugo.
I think all of those people should be in except Rose
because I think Rose was an embarrassment to the game.
I don’t think the hall of fame should just be a compilation of best statistics. That’s a big yaaawwwwwn for me. It should be subjective as well. It’s the best documentation of baseball’s history.
If Deion had been the first successful two-sport player, I’d say put him in, but Bo Jackson beat him by a few years. Someone else probably beat Bo Jackson. Whomever was the first successful two-sport player should definitely be in the HOF. This is exactly my point. It’s not just about stats, it’s about anomalies and firsts.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I couldn't disagree with you more,
but I’m pretty sure neither one of is gonna win this argument, so to each their own I guess.
cheers. :)
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
It's the socks
The stirrup socks make that uniform. Excluding them, the uni looks the same as our current ones. I wish mlb players would bring back stirrup socks.
A couple of guys wear stirrups everyday
Jamie Moyer does (of course he does), and I’m pretty sure Nyjer Morgan does, too.
I’m personally a fan of the smaller lettering of the older jerseys. The rest of I could take or leave.
Fire Julio Lugo.
yup yup...
i think the script on the current jerseys is almost obnoxiously large.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
by j.q. higgins on Jun 29, 2010 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I think you're right.
I think I like the current font/script a bit more than the old. Hm, and I just realized that the older one doesn’t have the tail coming back to underline the whole thing. Best of both worlds would probably be the current script, maybe tail-less, but smaller.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
One dude on the Blue Jays wears them
can’t remember who, though, but he looks awesome.
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
I love it.
I’m a huge fan of stirrups, too. And the cartoon bird on the hat is awesome.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
i always dig the tall socks
I am also that guy that does the tall socks and shorts thing in softball as well.
I hate the “O’s” on the hat now. Cartoon bird was OK. Really (for some reason) I like the real bird on the hat the best. I guess that is what I grew up with and reminds me of the good ol days.
I don't mind the real bird,
but I like the ‘89-’97 one a lot more than the ones since. The current one is an improvement on the ‘99-’08 one, though. And yes, the “O’s” hat is terrible, even if not for the inverted apostrophe.
On this topic: http://www.sportslogos.net/team.php?id=52
I have a cap with the ‘83 color scheme, but the cartoon bird swinging a bat as the logo (the one under miscellaneous logos on that page). That’s probably my favorite of the various birds, period.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
love that bird
also, the one in your avatar, which is obvi the Sun bird. I wish their was an online archive of all of those. they have to exist on microfiche or whatever that reel-to-reel system was that we had in school before microfiche.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
i looked long and hard
for the other early one I’ve seen, with the sun bird eating the statue of liberty, but I couldn’t find it
Fire Julio Lugo.
I like the cartoon bird.
Greatest logo in baseball.
Mi firma está escrito en español!
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jun 29, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Is anyone going to the game tomorrow?
Matt Wieters bobble day.
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
I went on Saturday and my next day off is tomorrow
If they win tonight it’ll be hard not to go tomorrow.
Also, one time I got a Bleachers and Boogs, I didn;’t even know about the Boogs voucher until they gave it to me.
The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST
by the fix is in on Jun 29, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I wanted to go, but there's something much more important going on.
Mi firma está escrito en español!
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jun 29, 2010 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
What could be more important than the anniversary of Birdland Day?
Baltimore is Baltimore. That's kind of what I know. - Manny Machado, 6/7/10
by Eat More Esskay on Jun 29, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
if anyone cares,
paraguay – japan about to have a shootout.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Awesome.
Mi firma está escrito en español!
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jun 29, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
oh, man
the tension is palpable
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
haha
I no your probably didn’t mean it this way, but I read your comment as super-sarcastic.
But that’s probably just my anti-soccer (basically anti-any sport that isn’t baseball) bias……
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
by NewYorkOriole on Jun 29, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
know*
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
by NewYorkOriole on Jun 29, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
it wasn’t sarcastic. but reading it, i can see it being taken that way.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Did anyone watch the 30 for 30 on "The Two Escobars"?
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 29, 2010 12:30 PM EDT reply actions
damn
heard about it. meant to tivo and forgot. supposed to be amazing.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Bro
It was effing incredible. I started it after 11pm last night (I gotta get up for work a little before 6). I thought it was only gonna be an hour but it ended up being 2 hours and change. I couldnt take my eyes off it, I was totally blown away by the whole story.
Needless to say Im draining coffee today.
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 29, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
showing again later this week on ESPN2
it was also at the LA Film Festival this past weekend, and we almost saw it there.
Setting the DVR now, thanks!
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
other interesting ones coming up
Without Bias, about Len Bias
Silly Little Game, about the rise of Rotisserie League baseball
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
The 16th Man was awesome too about South African Rugby and Nelson Mandella
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 29, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
did you see INVICTUS?
Not a very good movie, but a fascinating story about the same topic.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I did see it
I agree… i wasnt nearly as into or impressed with the movie as I was the 30 for 30 documentary.
They just do a great job on those.
Thank you Bill Simmons.
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 29, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
RE: LA Film Festival
How was that?
Bring back Andino.
by WestcoastO'sFan on Jun 29, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
only got to one movie, but it was a good one.
Night Catches Us. Had some script problems, but overall very well-acted and a good story.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
WOW.
very close to the post. well done.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
i've been watching wc on univision...
chilavert is the color guy for one of the announce teams and they put his team on this game. he was going bananas.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
by j.q. higgins on Jun 29, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Catcher defense
Beyond the Box Score posted their latest catcher defensive ratings. Wieters is best in the majors in caught-stealing runs saved, but tied for worst at preventing passed balls and wild pitches. I think I recall seeing him miss a few wild pitches I thought he could’ve had, though none recently, but I don’t think he’s anywhere near being that bad at it. The methodology just takes away runs for each WP and PB allowed, so it’s not like UZR or DRS where they actually watch each play and make a judgment call — if the pitcher throws a completely uncatchable WP, it counts against the catcher as much as a Posada-esque “how did he miss that” PB.
Wieters has only allowed one passed ball, so that’s obviously not the problem. I looked up the O’s pitchers at B-R. 6 of the 15 wild pitches for the team are by David Hernandez — and we’ve all seen him bounce sliders in the dirt when his control is off. Two are by JJ, and I think I remember him throwing a couple of uncatchable pitches when he was struggling.
So, I’m guessing it is a sample size / bad pitching issue rather than a reflection on Wieters, though I don’t think he’s as good at blocking pitches as, say, Carlos Ruiz. Anybody else have any insight?
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
any time
you take a defensive rating from half a season, it’s going to be a huge sample size problem. Add in the obvious caveats to that study, and I wouldn’t worry about it. Wieters’ defense is going to be something to toast to for a long while.
Fire Julio Lugo.
Yeah.
I’m not especially worried; I know the sample is tiny. I just haven’t been able to watch about half of the games this month, between NY-area blackouts and the West Coast trip, so I didn’t know if he’d been on a pitch-blocking cold streak or something lately.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
I think last year they had him in the top 5 in blocking pitches.
Him and ZAUN were both way above average, so to me that says its a sample size/pitching issue and not a Matt Wieters issue.
that and you've got to look at our pitching staff
we’ve got a few guys throwing major gas and have no idea where its going. david hernandez and jim johnson come to mind.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Jun 29, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah,
and together, they’re 8 of the 15 WP.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
another bird dropping
According to MLBtraderumors, Matt Wieters might be super two eligible after the 2011 season.
Looking ahead, a similar early Super Two cutoff after the 2011 season could affect a player like Matt Wieters, who could be at two years and 129 days. However, the collective bargaining agreement expires on December 11th, 2011, and the Super Two process figures to be one issue on the table.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
Sorry, Matt, but I really hope you're not.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
That's not good.
Mi firma está escrito en español!
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jun 29, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll worry about that when he remembers he's Matt Wieters
and picks it up a few notches.
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
as an O's fan,
It’s never too early to start worrying :(
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