Monday Bird Droppings
by duck on Jun 7, 2010 7:06 AM EDT
in Open Threads
Email
PrintRecaps of yesterday's lo...wait a minute, they won! THE ORIOLES WON! Read all about it at orioles.com, MASNsports.com, baltimoresun.com, USA TODAY.com, Carroll County Times, and The Boston Globe.
Birds Up, O's Down for June 6
Don't forget our weekly feature on who's hot and who's not in Birdland over the past week. -duck
Baltimore Orioles' Ty Wigginton: I'm focused on wins, not trade rumors - baltimoresun.com
"If I were to go somewhere, I'd want it to be somewhere I could contribute," Wigginton said. "But I love the city of Baltimore, and I love playing here for these fans." -duck
Musings Of A Divorcee: Why This Fan Left The Orioles For The Nationals - SB Nation DC
Just in case you needed even more reasons to hate the Nationals and their "fans." -duck
Arrieta may be used in relief for now | orioles.com: News
"Interim manager Juan Samuel said the Orioles are open to using pitching prospect Jake Arrieta in the bullpen if need be in the coming days." But Jake Arrieta is still seen as a starter in the future. Good to know this organization hasn't completely lost its collective mind. -duck
FEEL A DRAFT IN HERE?
Special Draft Day Coverage - MASNsports.com
Today at 1 p.m., Steve Melewski hosts a live video chat with the Orioles' Adam Jones. You can email question. People, who know what to do. Just don't curse. Much. -duck
Baltimore Orioles' first-round pick likely pitcher Jameson Taillon or shortstop Manny Machado - baltimoresun.com
"The Orioles have the easiest decision in the draft," said Jim Callis, executive editor of Baseball America. "There is a clear top three in the draft, and two of those guys are going to go ahead of them." Don't screw this up, Andy MacPhail. -duck
Jordan looking for some toughness in this draft -MASNsports.com
Scouting Director Joe Jordan has some thought on the makeup he's looking for in draftees. -duck
Orioles Insider: Draft the high school pitcher or shortstop?
Dan Connolly wants your thoughts on what the O's should do. Repeat after me: Best. Player. Available. -duck
Community Mock Draft Commentary: AL East - Minor League Ball
A quick glance shows...holy crap do the Jays have a lost of picks in the first three rounds! -duck
IN THE MINORS
Defense dooms Tides in 8-6 loss as Norfolk had 15 hits for the second straight game, but four errors cost them the game Sunday, the Baysox were postponed after three innings as RHP Steve Johnson was perfect through 3.0 IP against Erie, before the skies opened up and forced Sunday's game to be halted, the Frederick Keys won thir fifth straight game after a 1:22 rain delay and improved to 34-23 on the year, and the Shorebirds Drop Suns 4-3 as Steve Bumbry (Little Bee!) hit his first Shorebirds home run. Kieron Pope was 3-for-4.
AND SLIGHTLY UNRELATED....
The Schmuck Stops Here: Softball: A swing and a myth
Maybe this is a case of "The older I get, the better I was," but I can't ever remember going hitless in a slow-pitch softball game." Gee, Peter, even I didn't go hitless playing fast-pitch against my high school's varsity team last week. I went 1-for-2, baby, 1-for-2. -duck
334 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
EPIC FAIL
I am so glad we get to use the draft to build up the farm. Thanks Gonzo. Thanks. Please feel free to step in front of a bus. And take Atkins, Lugo, Lou, Albers, Hendo, Castillo and the bullpen with you.
That post at Minor League Ball makes me want to cry.
Two picks in the first three rounds, fewest in our division? Great situation for a rebuilding team…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
with all the #3 hype
I never really looked past that pick knowing the second round wasn’t there. But I never knew that it was this bad when compared to the rest of the AL East. Sad.
The good news is
One GM was quoted as saying picks #4-44 are all basically the same. So having #3 makes a huge difference. The other good thing is you can always go over-slot later and pick up talent that falls. Still, not having that pick is annoying.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Picking #3 makes a huge difference
if we actually take Taillon or Machado. Here’s hoping we don’t screw this one up.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
this
yes, we have to rebuild, but the majority of draft picks won’t work out anyway. 5 years from now, the lack of that one pick won’t be making or breaking the team.
that said, it’s a bummer not to have it.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
wanted attention, got some
>Musings Of A Divorcee: Why This Fan Left The Orioles For The Nationals – SB Nation DC
if you can willingly dump your team and rationalize the defection, you were never a fan in the first place
by thewaywardO on Jun 7, 2010 7:55 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
My thoughts exactly
I want to read the followup “musing” when reality hits the Nationals and they lose 15 in a row come August.
well that isnt completely fair
the same thing happens with every expansion team (minus tampa and florida since they’re all new yorkers there anyways)
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
So?
Just because a crapload of people do it doesn’t mean it’s ok. I can’t just drop the O’s. I wish I could. My life would be so much better. Unfortunately, I can’t. That’s what it means to be a real fan. It’s part of you.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
i wish I knew how to quit you
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
by zknower on Jun 7, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If they keep playing this way I may just end up like Ledger too.
Too soon?
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
That’s what it means to be a real fan. It’s part of you.
Well, it almost sounds like you define a real fan as someone who would never quit on his team. I don’t have a problem with the guy. He might have been a very passionate fan but he got sick of the losing so he decided to root for a team that technically his home team. Frankly, I’m not becoming like him per se but I am becoming more like Rob Neyer who has said he’s becoming less of Royals fan and just more a baseball fan in general.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
That's about as bandwagon as you can get
Finally dropping his supposed O’s fandom when they are at their shittiest, and embracing the Nats when they are at their best. It’s like a guy in his 40s leaving his wife when she hits menopause and shacking up with like… Lindsey Lohan, before we all knew how crazy she was.
I'm ready for a straight jacket. - Joe Angel, 4/17/10 (O's record: 1-11)
by Eat More Esskay on Jun 7, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
If he used Angelos as an excuse I could have even lived with it, but to just say its because they lose a lot is the weakest of all excuses. One thing I can’t stand is bandwagoners who don’t stick with teams through inevitable down times.
"You ever use smelling salts, every time you type a bad blog?" Brooks Laich
kinda waiting for mcphail to just go nuts and pick somebody crazy at number 3
it’ll make me sad, but i can totally see it happening
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
I dont think MacPhail calls that shots on who gets drafted first
Its Jordan. MacPhail gives him his budget and away he goes.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Really?
I can’t imagine the GM doesn’t get the final say.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
I could very easily be wrong
I was just under the impression that the scouting director makes the calls on the draft. Thats just the impression i got from reading andy seilers draft previews for each team. It probably depends on the GM and director though i guess.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 9:19 AM EDT up reply actions
From the comments in the Orioles Insider article
“A collage shortstop that can help RIGHT NOW! Maybe a Zimmerman prototype. This waiting 3/4 years for development is BS. I suggest Jeff Gyorko from WVU is the man.”
This guy is onto something, our arts and crafts division could really use an overhaul and apparently this Jeff Gyorko from WVU makes one mean collage.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
Collage is the way to go
With advances in cloning techniques, we could collage Ozzie Smith’s fielding ability onto ARod’s bat and Miggy’s arm and Cal’s durability.
Behold the perfect shortstop.
and Troy Tulowitzki's walk up to the plate music!
Make the world a better place; punch a Yankee fan in the face!
by PBR me ASAP! on Jun 7, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
ugh - from the Jordan interview
The Orioles are struggling on offense big time in 2010 and Jordan admits he could be looking for a bat with the Orioles second pick, which will come in the third round.
“What we would like to do is find a college bat, that we like. That may be difficult, because there is not as much inventory with that in the draft. That’s what I’d like.”
I personally am not a believer in college players past the first round. Why take a guy who at his very best could be league average and more than likely wont make it that high? Unless you have a guy who falls who has a higher ceiling, then I think its a waste.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
I don't know that I agree with that
Lots of good college players last past the first round. First of all, good but not elite bats that don’t play a premium defensive position almost never go in the first round. Just last year in the second round were Jeff Kobernus, Rich Poythress, Blake Smith, Tommy Mendonca, Jason Kipnis, Marc Krauss, Robert Stock, and DJ LaMahieu.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Well
I guess you could get a guy at a non-premium position but will someone really be there in the third round that has enough of a ceiling that he’s worth taking?
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, we'll find out
It all depends. This draft’s strength is high school right handers. So, it seems to me that either everyone will pick all the prep righties, leaving some good college hitters behind, or that everyone will take everything else, leaving some good prep righties to fall.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
if Jordan passes on Machado/Taillon to take a college bat I'll be beyond pissed.
That would make me angrier than anything that has happened on the field in this travesty of a season.
by Dingbat Charlie on Jun 7, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Fairly certain you'll rest easy tonight
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
sorry, I should have read that more carefully
but I’m nervous after the Hobgood pick. Maybe the save early, spend later approach will eventually pay off, but frankly I’d rather just have Matzek.
by Dingbat Charlie on Jun 7, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a believer
that most of his problems this year are not physical.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
I think his Achilles is still a factor,
but I assume you’re referring to the mama drama and how everyone was/is pressing.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
I think the Achilles is about 30% of his problems now
and the other two go a long way to explain the start he’s off to this year.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Sounds about right to me.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
Why
does the fact that they played in college automatically mean that “at his very best could be league average and more than likely won’t make it that high”???
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I meant a college pick after the first couple of rounds
I initially said the first round, but the second round probably has its share of higher ceiling guys too at less in-demand positions (like James pointed out). But all the guys with potential go high and then after that, why bother with such limited ceilings? I didn’t mean all college players.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
But that's true with everybody that falls to the 3rd round.
They are going to have lower ceilings than the guys who went 1-2. Why does the fact that a college guy fell give him a lower ceiling than a high school guy?
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
There are still plenty of projectable type high schoolers at that point
They are just more raw or more unsignable. They would have higher ceilings than the college players left on the board.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Why
would they have higher ceilings than guys who have played against much tougher competition and actually done well?
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Because all the ones who do well get taken in the first couple of rounds
After that I dont think its worth it.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
If a guy gets drafted in the top 10 rounds
he’s done well regardless of whether it’s high school or college. Nobody gets drafted that high if they sucked.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
well yea
But if you figure that a large chunk of the best players all signed out of high school, and of those that go to college some fail and some succeed. The best are taken in the first couple of rounds and the rest are good players, but the upside just isnt there. Give me a player who has the chance to be a difference maker anyday over someone who has a good chance of making the major leagues but as a utility player.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I still don't get what you're saying.
Guys get drafted out of high school all the time and choose to go to college instead. And lots of guys get substantially better from high school to college (a certain obvious one is making his major league debut tomorrow). I don’t think the fact that a guy is coming out of college and is taken in the 8th round makes his ceiling any lower than a HSer taken in the 8th round. Only difference is 3 years.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I'd say the ceiling by definition gets lower
because its almost impossible that he’ll have achieved 100% of his potential development during those 3 years.
Thats not the same thing, though, as what his recognized ceiling may be. Strasburg’s potential never increased during college; he always had the ability to become the pitcher he’s expected to be. Scouts just may not have noticed it after high school.
They didn't notice it because he hadn't attained it yet.
He went from throwing 89 to 99. The potential wasn’t there in HS unless you were a psychic.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
What I mean is.
People get dramatically better in college all the time. It’s often the first time they’ve ever faced good competition, worked out hard, been coached by people that know what they’re doing, etc.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
And Peter Gammons is saying it's a lock they take Tallion
It’s on his Twitter feed, which I can’t link at work.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Well, we'll know in a few hours
No sense worrying about it now.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
He's also saying we're a lock for Machado, so thats nice
Draft morning, usually everyonere knows 1rst 12 picks. Today we know Harper, Taillon, Machado in that order. 4 to 44 is indistinguishable
If we can't get Taillon, that's the kid to get, right?
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
So everyone says
I dunno that I agree entirely, but if Jordan likes Machado, that says a lot to me.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
hes the MAN!
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Gyorko is pretty good
If he is around at 3:3, he’d be a nice pick.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Is he?
I dont follow the players until they are actually drafted, I was just going on what collage man said on the other site.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
He's a plus hitter with average power
…who absolutely raked last summer in the Cape Cod League. His defense is the question; he’s not a major league SS.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
For me, it is Colon
But I don’t know that I feel really qualified to make a judgment.
I have no way of really comparing Machado to Tim Beckham and other former top prep shortstops. I do know that top prep shortstops bust a lot. I also know that Machado is not going to sign until the deadline, and isn’t going to sign for less than well over slot even at third overall, and while I don’t think that the draft budget should matter, I think it does for the Orioles.
To be clear, everyone who does this for a living thinks Machado is a special talent, with great makeup and a very high chance of success. Andy Seiler gives him a 30% chance of reaching his ceiling, as high as he has given anyone. He’s a great prospect, and one who could be a major impact player. And if Taillon goes to the Pirates, I will be quite pleased if the Orioles take Machado instead of doing something stupid.
But I’m not convinced about Machado the way I am about Taillon. If Jordan is convinced, that will help convince me. But all through this process the CW was that the O’s would have their choice between Taillon and Machado, and Machado never really entered into the conversation about who the O’s were going to take – there was never any indication that the O’s might prefer Machado to Taillon. Indeed, there were indications that the O’s might like a college arm more than either of them.
That to me doesn’t indicate that the O’s scouts think Machado is a Super Karate Monkey Death Car. And if they don’t think so, that calls into question what all the other people are saying for me.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
"Super Karate Monkey Death Car"?
That sounds like the awesomest thing ever!
Make the world a better place; punch a Yankee fan in the face!
by PBR me ASAP! on Jun 7, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
It is pretty awesome
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMZtdLra24E
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I've seen Colon spoken of more highly than Machado as recently as a couple months ago
So I guess we’ll see. I still think you have to go Taillon.Machado, but other than those I like Colon. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him top 10, maybe even top 5. He has his supporters.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
He almost certainly won't be an O
Although Melewski did link him to the O’s yesterday (do you suppose either the team or Melewski has noticed my relentless hyping of him?).
But I’ve never felt so strongly about a college bat as I do about Colon, and I’m a believer. At the end of the day, the guys in this class the O’s won’t get but who I would really love are Colon, Nick Castellanos, and Karsten Whitson.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Goldstein on Colon
KG just posted his mock draft. He’s got Colon dropping to #25, with this comment:
Colon’s signability, and a general consensus that he can’t play shortstop in the big leagues has him slipping.
if he’s right (about sticking at SS), does that change your eval?
by Dingbat Charlie on Jun 7, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
No
I think he does stay at short if the team wants him to – his defense has always been a lot better than his tools.
But more importantly, I just think he’s going to be a special player. I could be dead wrong. But I think he will be.
And I’ll give $10 to every other teams’ scouting director if they don’t select him before our third round pick.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
cool
hopefully they’ll take you up on that! Colon certainly seems like a hitter, which we could use at any position (looking at you, Rendon).
by Dingbat Charlie on Jun 7, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Colon and Whitson are my faves after Harper,Taillon, and Machado as well
I’ve been reading as much as I can, but I still am no where near where you are with the draft at this point. It’s good to see i’m not far off from your thoughts though.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Olney also saying the Pirates taking Taillon
Well, so it goes.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
that's okay
now we can skip the whole thing about taking a player at a position of need instead of the best player available. now the best player available will be at a position of need.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Jun 7, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
i say pirates take machado
if they don’t we need to
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
From Andy Seiler a few minutes ago:
Me: If the Pirates take Taillon, what are the odds that the O’s pass on Machado?
Andy: 0%.
So that’s pretty definitive.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
sounds good
i could deal with an a-rod clone, ya know, minus the steroids.
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Really, the steroids?
I’d have figured by now we were kind of over that.
If I could change one thing about A-Rod, it would be the douchiness, not the roids. Everyone used roids. But most of them aren’t complete tools.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I would change the purple lip gloss
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
I would change his uniform
To one that says “Baltimore” or perhaps “Orioles” on the front. And I would have done it a while ago.
I hate him, but if I can change any one thing I want about him, I might as well get something out of it.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
i was pretty pissed i have to admit
i was at the game when he got back, first pitch was a homer if you recall.
that got me angry. plus, they don’t kick you out of the league for being an assclown.
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
i mean...why would you?
we really could use a SS
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
let me answer you with a question
why do you still question the orioles’ front office?
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
if they didn't take him
why would it surprise you? we’ve managed to fuck up everything that we could have fucked up so far this year.
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
oh
yea it wouldn’t surprise me, sad as that is
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
i've given up on asking why
there’s a reason they work for the orioles after all.
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
hehe DeClino DeShields Jr. is a potential 1st rounder.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Delino was a great guy
Still is, I suppose. He’s from Seaford, DE, and did all kinds of work for the Boys & Girls Club in Seaford when he was a player.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
i'd say a definite first rounder.
the astros come to mind, they’ve got two picks in the first.
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow
Is he a 2nd baseman? Can we have him?
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I haven't drank in a couple of days so my mind is wandering....
but what if Harper doesn’t sign with the Nats? After spending so much on Strasburg last year is it even a possibility that they fail to land him due to his asking price being too high? Or are the Nats in a corner, almost having to sign him no matter the price?
Make the world a better place; punch a Yankee fan in the face!
The latter
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
If Harper doesn't sign
The Nats will get the 2nd pick in next year’s draft. And yes, I think it’s a possibility that they fail to sign him. Boras advised Harper to earn his GED graduate when Harper was 14. He didn’t strategize the extra years of draft eligibility for nothing. After the draft, Boras will announce some ridiculous comparative (e.g., Harper’s bat is Pujols quality right now) and use that as a starting point in negotiations. It’s impossible to know Harper’s minimum contract demand in order to sign. The Nats will offer their best contract right before the deadline. Maybe it’ll be enough.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Oh yes
Harper’s got as much leverage as anyone in recent memory. But I’m pretty confident that the Nats aren’t going to let him slip away. That number two pick next year has a lot less value than the number one pick this year.
Fire Garret Atkins.
The weird thing about this situation is that it’s really impossible to guess what Harper is actually looking for. Last year, Boras asked for something like $40M. But everybody knew that was ridiculous. Let’s say he asks for $25M, major league deal for Harper. It might sound ridiculous but Boras might actually mean it in this case. If he doesn’t get $25M, Boras can just take Harper back into the draft in 2011. He’ll ask for $25M again and now his threat will carry credibility especially if he’s eligible for the draft again in 2012 (?). This will scare off teams and he’ll then fall to the Red Sox or Yankees. Harper is already on record that his dream is to play for the Yankees.
I want to put on record right now. Harper will not sign with the Nats. He’ll be a Red Sox or Yankee next year. A just above record deal will not be enough to sign him. The Nats will have to offer a record deal that at least twice as high as previous record for a position player ($10M for doucheira is the record I believe).
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Then they will
Lerner is rich, the Nats have seen the value of the Strasburg publicity, and Harper has only stuff to lose by going back into the draft. You can’t go higher than #1.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Harper has absolutely nothing to lose by going back into the draft next year.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Sure he does
He could get hurt. Other teams could find a hole in his game. He could stop catching entirely. He could be struck by lightening.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
The Nats say they'll move him to the outfield, right?
That’s what I read.
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
come on dude, no need to be a meany, i never said it was OBVIOUS that he was going to be playing for the Yanks.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
I dunno
I saw Boras said they should move him to the outfield, but that’s not the same thing.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
This is what I saw
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/6/6/1504640/sundays-roto-roundup
If Harper is drafted by Washington, according to a baseball source, he will most likely become an outfielder. The team believes that Harper is an above-average outfielder with speed. He can play center and right field. Harper still needs to work on his catching skills.
But I guess who knows. Scott Boras could be the source. I just read the headline last time, which was obviously very smart of me.
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
Well, he's probably going to become an outfielder...
…no matter who takes him.
This is pretty much the same debate as we had with Wieters, as to whether the amount of time required to learn catcher defense and the added injury risk were worth it, or if it was better to move him to first and focus on his bat. With Wieters, the decision to keep him catching was in part because he was so much more advanced there defensively compared to Harper.
Meanwhile, I’m sure there is no daylight between what the Nationals are saying they plan to do with Harper and what Boras says they should do with Harper. Regardless of which side came up with the idea first, they will be saying the same tune until the contract gets signed.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
he would go #2 next year for sure to boot
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
And Harper probably doesn’t give a shit about going number 1. It’s all about the money.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
If they weren't certain they could sign him
The Nats wouldn’t be drafting him.
This is pretty much a done deal.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
The Nats are drafting him because he’s the number 1 talent. The Nats don’t know shit about what’s actually required to sign him.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Sure they do
You think they haven’t talked to Scott Boras lately?
Teams routinely talk to the agents ahead of the draft. Heck, the Royals may already have a deal with Grandal. Everyone thinks he will sign, and they think that for good reasons.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
You think they haven’t talked to Scott Boras lately?
Come on James, you damn well know that those talks with Boras pre-draft are meaningless because you know Boras’ negotiating strategy. Boras has probably asked for something ridiculous and the Nats probably don’t believe him. It’s standard Boras negotiating tactics.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Eh
I think he’ll sign. I think he’ll get around $15M – a bit less than Strasburg but a record for a position player.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Sure, that may happen. But I guessing $15M will not be enough. He’ll try to get more in next year’s draft by going to the Yankees or Red Sox. Those team will happily pony up more for a talent like Harper.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
I don't see that happening
Look, Harper wants to be in the majors, and needs to get out of amateur ball. He didn’t take his GED and drop out of high school to play two seasons in JuCo. The makeup questions about him are real, and if it wasn’t already established that he is going #1 his being suspended from his JuCo team would have been a bigger deal. Shit with that is likely to get worse, and pretty soon people think you are Delmon Young and won’t touch you, particularly if you won’t sign even for record-breaking money.
If he wants to be a Yankee or a Red Sox, he can do it the old-fashioned way and get himself traded there when the Nats still suck and he’s a year away from free agency. In the meantime, he can shut the fuck up and enjoy being the only 17 year old he knows with $15 million.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Can you come teach my 9th graders for a day or two? Please?
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Teach them what?
And it depends on how much trouble I can get into for talking this way to kids.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
That last paragraph
I kinda liked the part about sit down and shut up. :)
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
He didn’t take his GED and drop out of high school to play two seasons in JuCo.
He took his GED to get the MOST money and hopefully play for the Yankees.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
You're really, really hung up on this Yankee thing
you need to get past that. There’s just zero chance that Harper ever gets drafted by the Yankees.
Fire Garret Atkins.
Give me a logical argument instead of telling to get past it.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
He will never fall to a draft position
where the Yankees could draft him, and you can’t trade draft picks. You can’t even trade draft selections for a year after they are drafted, correct, James?
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Guys ROUTINELY drop in the draft because of signing demands. ROUTINELY.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
This is true
Tons of players drop, but the top players dont drop anymore. The Porcello’s of the world dont drop.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
But someone that talented, dropping that far?
I’d be shocked. Usually the guys that drop because of signability concerns are high school kids that are already solidly committed to a college. Not ones who hire scott boras and make it clear that want to be in the majors as soon as possible.
Not ones who hire scott boras and make it clear that want to be in the majors as soon as possible.
Boras clients make it clear that money is their number one priority.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
so if someone ahead of the Yanks drafts him
and says we will meet your price then that is where he is going. The Yanks will be drafting at the bottom of the 1st round. Harper won’t fall that far. Someone will pony up the $ for him.
Make the world a better place; punch a Yankee fan in the face!
Yeah
But not from #1 to #32
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Jun 7, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Like I already said, Harper is in historically unique draft situation. Him NOT signing this year is part of the strategy.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
That's a pretty bad strategy
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Jun 7, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not james but thats correct
Sometimes you can make them a PTBNL and then trade them after 10 months or something like that and they get named after their year is up.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The Expos are going to take him
It’s pretty much a lock
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Jun 7, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The Yankees
pick down at the bottom of the draft every year.
If Harper’s main goal is to “play for the Yankees ASAP”, then his best strategy is to get drafted by the Nats, show up in 2013 and then sign with New York in 2020. That’s the facts of the case.
Fire Garret Atkins.
If Harper’s main goal is to "play for the Yankees ASAP", then his best strategy is to get drafted by the Nats, show up in 2013 and then sign with New York in 2020. That’s the facts of the case.
I’ll just say that during the pre-draft, Jeter said he would ONLY sign for the Yankees which is why he fell to them. Simply giving up isn’t Boras’s MO.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
I don't know if he said that
But he “fell” to them because they had the 6th pick overall.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Jun 7, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
he did say that
Buster Olney’s Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty mentioned it. Other teams wanted him but he fell to #6 because of his pre-draft fiat.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Even if he was the top prospect (a huge if), dropping from #1 to #6 is not that big of a deal; especially when you’re a HS player with a college scholarship waiting for you.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Jun 7, 2010 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually
It looks like the Astros passed because of signing demands, not because Jeter only wanted to sign with the Yankees:
From that book:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1863947
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Jun 7, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, there were still other teams drafting in the Yanks. But my bad if this isn’t a good analogy.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
But the "most" money factors in present value
Even if we discount the risk factor of going back into the draft, because of the time value of money.
Money you get today is worth more to you than the same amount of money in the future. Between that and the interest you can earn just putting the money in a savings account, you need to come up with a really big future number to make it worth doing.
It just isn’t likely to be worth it in Harper’s case – it isn’t like he’s going to get offered much more next year than he is this year. Which is why I point out that he can’t go higher than #1 – if everyone knows you are going to require record-breaking money and you still go #1, that means that everyone agrees to pay you record-breaking money. Guys like Crow and Hochevar who want record-breaking money and don’t go #1 are the one who don’t sign.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Money you get today is worth more to you than the same amount of money in the future. Between that and the interest you can earn just putting the money in a savings account, you need to come up with a really big future number to make it worth doing.
I agree and I think some other team (i.e., the Yanks or PHN) will offer that big number to make it worth it.
if everyone knows you are going to require record-breaking money and you still go #1, that means that everyone agrees to pay you record-breaking money.
And the Nats will offer record breaking money. It just won’t be enough.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
I agree
unless Harper’s asking price is astronomically invalid (like demanding a major league deal for $40MM…which not even the Yankees would touch)…and Boras isn’t stupid. He knows that Harper will most likely end up around 15 million, setting new draft records and such. For that price, there’s no way the Nats don’t get it done.
Fire Garret Atkins.
(like demanding a major league deal for $40MM…which not even the Yankees would touch)…
Yes, I agree. $40M is ridiculous and not even the Yanks will do that. But I’m thinking $20M to $25M is his asking price for the Nats. He’ll be willing to sign for $18 to $20 for Yanks next year.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
And the Nats will pay him $20.
No way they don’t. What’s their current payroll, anyway?
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
No they won’t because they’ll think $20M is a bluff. Negotiations with Boras clients do not start until 2 hours before the signing deadline.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Boras will ask for $40
and settle for $20
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
And the Nats will never offer $20M because they’ll think he’s bluffing.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
They will offer $10
and Boras will say, “No, $40” and away we go, and at 11:59 the night before the deadline, he will sign for $18-20 million.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
it's possible
but i don’t see Nats offering that much. Maybe I’m wrong. We’ll see.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
If they signed Strasburg for $15 last year
They’ll sign Harper for $18 this year.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
He probably won't drop to the Yankees next year either
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Jun 7, 2010 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
like i already said, Boras didn’t strategize for that extra one (or two?) years of eligibility just to get a slightly above record deal. He want to SMASH that record deal. And it’s Harper’s dream to play for the Yankees.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
yeah well
that just isn’t going to happen. He would need to go through the draft a dozen times at least before New York would get a shot at him. If the Nats dont sign him, the O’s or Pittsburgh or Houston or whoever will take him next year, and if he doesn’t sign then, then there’s still a ton of teams between Kansas City and New York who’ll look at his decreasing leverage and go for it.
And this would be like the worst draft strategy ever for Bryce Harper.
Fire Garret Atkins.
He would need to go through the draft a dozen times at least before New York would get a shot at him.
No he doesn’t. Player ROUTINELY drop for signability issues.
If the Nats dont sign him, the O’s or Pittsburgh or Houston or whoever will take him next year, and if he doesn’t sign then, then there’s still a ton of teams between Kansas City and New York who’ll look at his decreasing leverage and go for it.
Read my first post. He’ll easily drop to the Yankees because him not signing this year will increase his demand credibility.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
no way
NO WAY. I will bet you millions and millions of dollars. Kids dropping because of signability is quickly becoming a thing of the past. A Porcello situation would never, ever happen in 2010.
Fire Garret Atkins.
Kids dropping because of signability is quickly becoming a thing of the past.
It happened least year with Wheeler and Matzek off the top of my head. And these kids aren’t nearly in the same class as Harper.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
yeah
Matzek dropped….all the way to 11th. The Yankees pick at 30-something. Still a long, long way to go.
Fire Garret Atkins.
Matzek dropped….all the way to 11th. The Yankees pick at 30-something. Still a long, long way to go.
Like I keep saying, him not signing this year is part of adding Boras’ strategy of adding credibility to his signing demand. If Matzek can drop to #11, don’t you think it’s possible for Harper to drop further given the context of what’s going to potentially happen in 2010?
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
I do not
Harper is a better talent than Matzek. The talent will still outweigh the price.
Also: wouldn’t the Red Sox take Harper? They aren’t scared of the price, and they pick before the Yankees most years.
Fire Garret Atkins.
Harper is a better talent than Matzek. The talent will still outweigh the price.
And the price will outweigh everything in this particular case.
Also: wouldn’t the Red Sox take Harper? They aren’t scared of the price, and they pick before the Yankees most years.
Yes, I said this earlier.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Um
so, he’ll end up in Boston then in your theoretical model, right? Boston must be the LAST place he wants to be.
Fire Garret Atkins.
theoretical model? I’m not sure if I have a theoretical model. I’m just making guessing based on evidence that I see. But yes, it’s possible that he could end up in Boston since they are typically pay waaay over slot for draft picks.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
right
but if his goal is to play for the Yankees over even making as much dough as possible, then not signing with the Nats won’t further that goal at all. He’d just end up with his favorite team’s arch-nemeses.
Fire Garret Atkins.
but if his goal is to play for the Yankees over even making as much dough as possible,
I personally believe, and it’s just a guess, making as much dough takes precedent over playing for the Yanks. The Yanks are just happen to be one of the teams that have enough dough to give him the most.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Maztek fell to 11th, Wheeler to 6th
Not exactly supporting your argument that Harper would go from 1st to ~30th
Not exactly supporting your argument that Harper would go from 1st to ~30th
I’m just saying guys drop because of signability issues which people were disputing earlier (and by people, I don’t mean necessarily you).
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
People do all the time
I however do not believe at all that Harper’s situation will make such a drop likely.
All it takes is 1 team that doesnt like their options in the current draft year
They draft him, don’t sign him, and get a comp pick the next year. If this happens this year (as you are saying it will) and next year then all of a sudden he’s 19 and hasn’t played real college ball. And who’s to say it doesn’t happen more than that? There’s almost no way he’d drop to 30-32 without someone either being willing to at least try to come to a deal with him or someone drafting him hoping his demands will come down and knowing the pick will be there next year if all else fails.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
and next year then all of a sudden he’s 19 and hasn’t played real college ball.
Harper should be a high school junior now. I don’t think he’ll be 19 next year.
here’s almost no way he’d drop to 30-32 without someone either being willing to at least try to come to a deal with him or someone drafting him hoping his demands will come down and knowing the pick will be there next year if all else fails.
Like I already said, it’s not uncommon for guys with first round talent drop to later rounds because of bonus demands. It’s true, as you say, that some teams will say fuck it, let’s draft him anyways and see if his demands come down. I don’t disagree with that at all. But it’s also very possible that teams will get scared off as well. And part of Harper’s strategy of not signing this year adds to the credibility of his demands, thus making it more likely that he’ll fall to a big spending team.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
He said if it happens this year AND next year.
Then he would be 19.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
But Matzek and Wheeler weren't the best players in the class
No one thought either should go #1 overall. No one would have taken either #1 overall.
Those guys have leverage because they can go to college and BECOME the #1 overall guy.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
and Harper has that same leverage.
Even more so.
And i keep asking, but is Harper draft eligible again in 2012?
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Harper's a JuCo
He is, from this point, eligible in every draft.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Holy fuck. Boras has all types of fucking leverage.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Opportunity cost is still there
Every year Harper avoids the draft is another year he delays his free agency, when he’ll make the real money of his career. Boras isn’t stupid, he’s gonna get the best reasonable deal he can, but he’s not going to delay so often that it costs him another long-term contract. He may punt this year (i doubt it), but theres no way he keeps delaying until the yankees have a shot at him. Harper will never be drafted outside the top 10 picks.
Every year he delays
he costs himself aprox $15-20 million. That’s the price of the FA contract he signs in Year 7. It may be more than that. Unless he and teh Nats are light-years apart, he signed this year. He’d lose money if he didn’t.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Boras isn’t stupid, he’s gonna get the best reasonable deal he can, but he’s not going to delay so often that it costs him another long-term contract.
Boras does this ROUTINELY.
He may punt this year (i doubt it), but theres no way he keeps delaying until the yankees have a shot at him.
I agree. He’ll delay until he gets his money. I just mentioned the Yanks because 1) they have the money and 2) Harper is on record saying that it’s his dream to play for the Yankees.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Boras has never had a client
go through the draft three times, which is the minimum it would take to get somebody past the top ten.
Fire Garret Atkins.
And Boras has NEVER had a client who entered the draft as a high school junior.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
well, I guess we'll see
but I just don’t see any way that we’re still talking about “where’s Harper going to get drafted” in 2013.
Fire Garret Atkins.
If for some reason Harper does not sign this year
Whats to stop the O’s from drafting him #1 next year? Unless Rendon is better than he is?
technically, absolutely nothing. boras does not discriminate when it comes to money. he’ll take big dollars from us, twins, yankees or whoever.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
So, we're done with Confederate money?
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
He said the same thing last year
$50 million, $50 million, $50 million, it’s gonna take $50 million.
And it took $15 million.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Read my post first. I already pointed this out and said Strasburg is not a comparable situation. Harper is in a historically unique position draft wise.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
I think he's in almost the EXACT same position
Remember how Strasburg was a “once every 50 years” pitcher? Well, Harper is a “once every 50 years” position player. In the new SI, Boras himself told teh Nats’ Lerner those exact words last year – you have a chance to get both of these guys.
They are in almost exactly the same position in my mind. Harper will make slightly more than Strasburg, but they both will end up on the Nats roster by ASG next year. Strasburg’s already there.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Strasburg was a college guy in his 20s. That’s a huge difference in itself.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Harper costs himself $15-20 a year for every year he doesn't sign
That FA contract gets another year away every draft he sits through.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Harper costs himself $15-20 a year for every year he doesn’t sign
True, but he can earn $15-$20M next year and I’m guessing he believes even more.
That FA contract gets another year away every draft he sits through.
He’s going to be so ridiculously young when he hits free agency, it ain’t going to matter.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Bullshit.
An extra 15-20MM now is better than waiting for it.
"I'd like to do something. We all would here," he added. "As I've said before, you just don't want to do anything stupid that you're thinking in May, 'What in the God's green earth was I thinking about?'" - Andy MacPhail 12/8/09
wrong, if you get can $20 next year, that’s better than $15 even including deferred interest.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Well
isn’t the bottom line how much he will make over the course of the two time periods you’re comparing?
So, if he signs for $15 M this year he’ll make $15 M over the next 6 years and somewhere in the $15-20 M in the 7th year.
If he waits and signs next year for $20 M, he’ll make $0 for the next year and $20 M for those 6 years.
If he signs now he makes $30-$40 M over the next 7 years. If he waits and signs next year he makes $20 M over the next 7 years. Right?
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I’m not sure where you’re going, but
So, if he signs for $15 M this year he’ll make $15 M over the next 6 years and somewhere in the $15-20 M in the 7th year.
The 7th year is undetermined. That’ll be his free agent year. So it’s versus, in very hypothetical terms mind you but hey I brought up the game so I’ll play, 1) $15 over the next six years versus 0 next year and then $20 over the next 6 years thereafter.
It is possible that he could make more next 6 years flat by signing now but hurt his overall career earnings if that makes any sense.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
but
if you’re comparing 7 years in one why don’t you include the 7th year in the other? Otherwise it’s an unfair comparison.
Do you expect him to earn zero in his first year of free agency?
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
if you’re comparing 7 years in one why don’t you include the 7th year in the other?
I’m not comparing anything…. i’m just playing out the parameters you laid out. like i already said, i don’t think none of this matters in terms of how Boras thinks.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
i have a feeling you have point you’re trying to make but you want me to make it so feel free to go ahead and make it.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Well I think the point of all of this is for Harper and Boras to make the most money possible – if the difference between signing this year and signing next year is $5 M (as you said above) it would be in their interest to sign now for $15 M and get to free agency 1 year earlier. That’s the way to make the most money possible.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
it’s possible. it’s also possible to get more more money by waiting. who knows at this point.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Yeah I mean if they think they could get $10 or $20 M more by waiting a year then it would start to be worth it.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
and in any case, given history, boras’ MO is all about getting the biggest guaranteed money even if it means waiting a year so i don’t think projecting 6 years out isn’t part of his calculus. and more importantly, boras is all about setting new precedents in how the draft works.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
It might not be part of HIS calculus
but he’s the advisor – it’s certainly part of Harpers’ calculus (or it would be stupid if it weren’t). Boras is not the decision maker.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I don't get
why some of these go along with his crazy advice when it’s obviously not in their interest, but in his long-term interest.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
because it’s a calculated gamble and boras has a record for getting top dollar. he’s also fucked up at times as well. so overall, i think clients decide to defer expertise to boras… wisely or unwisely.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
But often times
it’s a calculated gamble for Boras and a wildly risky gamble for the player.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
No, it's not
because that extra $5 million came at the expense of one full season of your career. Being able to get to FA one year earlier is worth more than the $5 million you earn delaying drafting.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
you don't know that.
there are simply too many unknowns to make a guess of how things will shake out 6 or 7 years from now. for example, it’s possible that the delaying free agency by a year will mean entering free agency when the economy is very strong versus a weak year. it’s possible that one year difference will mean a different labor agreements context for free agents. so on.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
edit: Last year, Boras asked for something like $40M for Strasburg.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
So say he doesn't sign...
and we get the 1st pick next year. Do we take Harper or Rendon? And can the Gnats pick Harper 2 years in a row?
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
You need permission from the player to redraft them
Even if you took them in high school and then three years later they are coming out of college.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
If we’re willing to pony up something ridiculous for Harper, then yeah, let’s do it.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Well this is what i'm asking
Do you take the young Harper with tons of potential or the also very good, more polished player in Rendon? All the hype is around Harper, but I think that’s a real question.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Well a lot can change but for now Rendon
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
just saying
the guy who turned on his o’s fandom is no better then a sux or mfy fan bandwagon jumpers he probally didnt cheer is past yrs friday night i went to the game had fun yes we got our asskicked but was i embarred hell no ya know why bcause i know that if the sox were losing ever sox fan in the place would abondon the sox that night until they won i wore my o’s jersey and hat with pride and taunted youklickthis at 1b all night i know we will win again and when we do it will be o’sssssss so sweet
Not to be dickish
But, looking at our club, what don’t we need like none other?
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
players that dont deserve to be in the majors
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
that's what i was thinking
or lou. or b2b. etc etc
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Outfielders
Starting pitchers. Not that those positions are 100%.
Bring back Andino.
by WestcoastO'sFan on Jun 7, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno
Seems to me that we certainly could use some starting pitching, particularly a true #1 type.
Matusz is nice but the lack of a go to out pitch is killing him. Tillman right now looks to me like he needs a better offspeed pitch. Arrieta has yet to prove he has control. Patton, Spoone and Butler may be done. Erbe is a mystery. Hobgood too. Coffey has yet to throw a pro pitch. Berry is what we thought – good but injury prone. Bergy DH and Berken are all in the pen now.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Eh
After getting over my initial disappointment, I’m feeling better about this.
Everyone loves Machado and thinks he’s not just a great prospect but a great kid. He’ll be cheaper than Taillon and Taillon will probably require a major league deal, which you’ll recall didn’t work out too great with Adam Loewen. It gives us more of a chance to spend big later in the draft without costing us much in the way of talent.
Worse things could happen.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
i really wanted taillon
folks say he’s better than beckett was at that age, i want a beckett…
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember hearing the exact opposite about billy rowell not too long ago
bad prospect, worse person. Its good to hear us drafting someone who might actually deserve all the money thats about to be thrown his way.
what's the deal with rowell?
is he just that bad of a person/player?
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
there was some stuff
about having his own personal hitting coach, being super egotistical, making demands, and so on. Not sure how much of it was true…but he sure did suck hard, and the tangibles >>>> the intangibles.
Fire Garret Atkins.
Sometimes i think with high school players, its just teenagers being teenagers.
However, the way to make a 17 year old kid grow up and act mature usually doesnt involve giving them millions of dollars
honestly, im not sure how i would act, but i have a feeling that i wouldn't be demanding special attention
i know that most guys down there my age are in the same boat i am.
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
nobody on the national media talks about amateur/college baseball
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
im pretty sure he, prior, griffey jr., and a-rod
are the only ones to get major press
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah he's still down in high-A right?
how old is he?
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
When did he have his own hitting coach?
High school? I can’t fault him for that. Most of the 13 year olds in my daughter’s softball league have pitching tutors (including my kid), and it’s nowhere near as good as bad travel ball teams.
There’s plenty of other reasons to hate on Billy Rowell, but having his own hitting coach in HS isn’t one of them.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
no, I had read
that that was in Delmarva or Aberdeen or maybe even Frederick. The team denied it of course, and I haven’t heard anything about him in a couple years now (personality-wise at least)…but then, I stopped paying attention because like I said, tangibles >>>> intangibles.
Fire Garret Atkins.
as much as i freaked on that guy for jumping the ship
i’ve got to admit that i’ll be in attendance for strasburg’s first game. it’s got nothing to do with preference of teams, but i really wanted to see him pitch.
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
eh its not jumping ship
i’ll be watching too
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Nothing wrong with that
You’re a baseball fan. It’s a big deal. You aren’t ditching the O’s for the Nats over it. You just want to witness a great young pitcher take his 1st step onto a big league field. Most people who give a crap about the sport would be into it.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Anything unexpected yet?
New iPhone, I assume. New iPHone OS, too? How backwards compatible if yes?
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
New iPhone looks pretty sweet so far. full redesign, gyroscope, much better screen.
Serious network issues in the auditorium though and the demos arent working well. Someone’s getting fired tomorrow.
Gyroscope?
Cool.
And how did they NOT use the mobile towers AT&T trucked into SXSW last year?
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
As limited multi-tasking as we've been led to believe?
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Dont think he really went into much detail
There wasnt a in-depth demo, and egadget just reported multitasking without anymore info
I think most of those are still ways away
Apple very recently bought Lala, so any sort of itunes cloud is going to take a while to develop, and i dont think we see 10.7 for like another year. All signs ahead of this keynote pointed to it being all iPhone and iOS 4.
yeah...wasnt expecting all of that...
but there were enough rumors floating around about other stuff I thought there would at least be something else. Especially cause Apple shut down Lala a week ago.
Just to add a little spice to the conversation
I went ahead and got the Evo 4G. 4G coverage is decent, not great, but Android is very sweet. I’m coming from a Windows mobile device, so it’s like going from a paper airplane to a rocket ship. It’s not as polished as the iPhone (camera is a bit of a disappointment) but I’m really digging it. I like where android is headed a lot more than where Apple is headed.
by PhilR8 on Jun 7, 2010 3:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I really want EVO 4G. Sprint held an essay contest for win one. Hopefully, my essay was good enough.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Yeah...if i were getting a new phone in the next year or so, i'd probably go Android over iPhone
I love my iPhone and it was definitely a huge difference coming from Windows Mobile…. but Apple needs to get on board with the “cloud” and stop limiting their devices
Help me with "cloud" stuff
What the hell is that, and why would I want the ability to access cloud stuff on my phone? I have some vague idea about the philosophy of cloud applications, but he seems all rather Woodstock 1969-ish to me.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
As far as iTunes goes,
basically all your media files would be stored on a central server instead of physically on your device and you would then stream them off the server, allowing you access to a much larger amount of data than you could actually store on a phone.
i don't think they "have to" do anything.
they seem to be keeping plenty of people happy.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
if anyone cares
Tides up 5-0 top 7
Salazar & Hughes w/ solo jacks
Patton – 6 IP 3 hits 0 ER
I just wanted to say we are winning.
im still high on patton
just saying.
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
i have honestly no idea
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
But can he tell a joke as good as Bruce Chen?
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
bell has a single and a double
after a couple of days off. both from the right side.
6-0 tides, bottom 8
I
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
WATER WATER WATER WATER!
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
by daveh873 on Jun 7, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
ahahaha
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
yea i rec'ed that
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
haha "When Mentoring Goes Bad" - check out the pic
http://sloanreview.mit.edu/executive-adviser/articles/2010/2/5221/when-mentoring-goes-bad/
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
for god's sake espn...
HARPER IS NOT A FUCKING CATCHER!
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
Um, he's not?
He may not be much longer, but currently, he is.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
not in the pros he's not
they’re hyping him to be one
"Being an Orioles fan is like having very painful genital warts."
"harden the fuck up mike gonzalez."
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Jun 7, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Depens on what your definition of "is" is.
Man, I’ve ALWAYS wanted to use that line!!!!
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
If memory serves me right
When that line was 1st used I was more impressed than you were. (;-)
You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever.
'Tis true, 'tis true
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
From my point of view
Clinton was classic case of “enemy of my enemy”. Nothing he did would ever make me take the side of the Flying Monkeys, the Snake Handlers & the Voodoo People.
And I mean nothing. If he “pulled an OJ” I’d start asking questions about how many of Gingrich’s ex’s were alive & kicking.
You can't fix stupid. Stupid is forever.
MLB network. Pre-draft show @ 6pm. Draft @ 7pm
Make the world a better place; punch a Yankee fan in the face!
I wish people could attend it
It happens 10 minutes down the road from me. I’d def. go to that. But no. Baseball has to be lame.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Their studios are NJ?
I wonder if you can tour the place.
"There's rock bottom, 50 feet of crap, then the Orioles."-Stacey
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jun 7, 2010 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
It isnt that impressive
my friend used to work in that building before mlb netowrk was there. TV is deceptive. These are tiny studios and alot of people you dont recognize doing alot of things you wouldnt want to do.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I went to a draft once
Its a lot less fun than it looks. Its cool for the first couple picks, but then you start to realize its just a guy walking to a podium every 15 minutes. I know a lot of people hate the draft coverage on tv and think the announcers never really say anything, but It gets really boring without all the filler.
Jamie Moyer fun facts
He’s pitched to 20 players who are now in the hall of fame and 10 players who are deceased.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/6599
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
That man will provide the stat geeks more than enough statistical fodder over the next few years.
And the amazing thing is that he’s pitched the same way throughout his career. Nothing overpowering, just great control and changing speeds.
Make the world a better place; punch a Yankee fan in the face!
half of my family is made of huge sox fans, so i never hated the team that much
But damn that Boston globe article came across as so patronizing it made my teeth hurt
by Paca_T on Jun 7, 2010 3:16 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I can't believe that the draft will now be on TV, in primetime.
When Moneyball was published you could follow it online and that was it. Looks like MLB draft is slowly catching up to the NFL/NBA draft.
"There's rock bottom, 50 feet of crap, then the Orioles."-Stacey
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jun 7, 2010 4:23 PM EDT reply actions
It will never be able to catch all the way up
The investment in players is just too long term. The NFL and NBA had an immediacy to it that makes it viable television. You know we’ll be seeing Kindle and Cody on the field on a few months, and you can be almost certain John Wall (presumably) will be starting for the Wizards next season. The average baseball fan will go years before hearing Manny Machado’s name again after tonight and when he signs.
its true
and I actually hate it. I like being able to follow the draft in peace without the espn circus act.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 7, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I just love Bud Selig's schtick
he comes to the podium and genuinely looks irritated, grumpy, clueless, mumbling his way through the cue card while darting his eyes about.
“With the….ahh…first pick in the….two thou-sand and ………ten draft….the….ahhh….Washington……Nationals select…………….Bryce……Harper. The….ahh…Pitts-burg Pi-rates are on the clock.”
Fire Garret Atkins.
It used to be a closed conference call with the league and 30 clubs
That was it. You found out who they drafted when the club told you, not before.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Camden Chat
Related FanShots on Camden Chat
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Official Sponsor of Camden Chat GameThreads
