Wednesday Bird Droppings
by duck on Jun 9, 2010 7:04 AM EDT
in Open Threads
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PrintRecaps of yesterday's loss can be found at orioles.com, baltimoresun.com, MASNsports.com and NY Times.
Baltimore Orioles eye Bobby Valentine, Eric Wedge in managerial search - baltimoresun.com
As mentioned yesterday: An interview with Valentine is already scheduled to happen "soon", and MacPhail has reached out to a number of other folks, including Wedge. -zk
Challenge System Enters Baseball Replay Debate - NYTimes.com
Among other ideas, MLB is studying the NFL's "challenge system". -zk
Brian Roberts / Alfredo Simon / Jake Arrieta
As you've no doubt heard, Roberts is hurting. Also, updates on Alfredo Simon (may be activated this weekend), Arrieta (may debut against the Mets Saturday), and others. -zk
The Schmuck Stops Here: O's: Time to fire up the Norfolk shuttle
"Yes, I realize there are 40-man roster inplications, but I don't really care anymore. Outright or DFA somebody. It should be audition time." I gotta admit, Peter Schmuck is saying what I'm thinking. Screw it, clean house and promote guys. -duck
Wieters relates as Strasburg debuts | orioles.com: News
"It's a lot the first day," Matt Wieters said of the media circus and myriad of non-baseball-related events that occur when a potential superstar makes his big league debut. "But it's a good feeling once you get out there and the actual game gets under way." I'm guessing Stephen Strasburg felt pretty comfortable getting 14 strikeouts in his first game. -duck
Wieters on his offense and days off - MASNsports.com
So, is all the catching a concern? "I don't think so. I think you can look at my numbers last year and they are probably similar to this point in the same number of at bats. You have a good month or couple of weeks and you are right back where you need to be." So there you go. -duck
Girardi said no to '07 Orioles offer - NYPOST.com
"It was a family decision because my father was in the beginning of end stages of Alzheimer's," Girardi said. "We decided that we were going to spend the summer in Chicago with him and my wife's family. Those were my plans going into that summer, and I just thought I need to see my dad because I don't know how much I'm going to be able to talk to him." -duck
Bobby Valentine, Eric Wedge reportedly candidates to become Orioles' manager - Sporting News
Sporting News is also reporting Eric Wedge and Bobby Valentine are among those Andy MacPhail is targeting. -duck
IN THE DRAFT
Orioles Insider: Orioles tab Klein in third round, Mummey in fourth
"The scouting reports say [Dan Klein's] fastball sits between 91 and 93 miles per hour and he has a good sinker and chengeup. His curveball is described as average." -duck
Orioles add shortstop, arms on Day 2 | orioles.com: News
Here's another look at the highlights of Day 2 of the First-Year Player Draft for the Orioles -duck
Orioles Insider: Jordan talks draft; plan is to develop Klein as starter - baltimoresun.com
Scouting Director Joe Jordan discusses the thought processes behind the Orioles' picks in the 3rd to 6th rounds. -zk
Jordan sizes up day two of the draft - MASNsports.com
"I need a little time to go over and absorb it and see how much money I'm going to spend, but it was a good day, I'm happy." Spend that money, Joe. Spend that money. -duck
Quick Review - Baltimore Orioles - MLB Bonus Baby
Andy Seiler's generally positive review of the Orioles' draft so far. James posted in the Fan Shots, but I know people sometimes forget about those. -Stacey
Orioles Insider: What they're saying about the Orioles' draft
So, here's my description of The Sun's description of what other people said about the Orioles draft. -duck
Woodchucks Centerfielder Gets Drafted By Orioles - WAOW - Newsline 9, Wausau News, Weather, Sports
"[Brandon] King, 20, just finished his second and final season at Fresno City College where he was a team leader for the Central Valley Conference champion Rams. King hit for a .370 batting average, had a .552 on-base percentage, and a .667 slugging percentage on the spring." -duck
Narron family roots run deep in professional baseball | Star-Telegram
We drafted the son of Jerry Narron yesterday. He's had a lot of family members play baseball. Really. -duck
IN THE MINORS
Orioles Insider: Minor league game recaps - June 8
Norfolk won, Bowie won one of two, Frederick lost and Delmarva won. -duck
Bascom joins Norfolk: Is Arrieta on the move? - MASNsports.com
"All of this is likely related to the Orioles rotation. The Birds will need another fifth starter on Saturday and could take Brad Bergesen out of the pen and start him there or callup someone from the minors, like [Jake] Arrieta, for that start." -duck
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S.S. Nationals
i am going to be the naysayer and go with – it was the pirates. but I did watch the game and the kid looked good. it was an enjoyable game to watch and root for someone that had a chacne to win a game. bet he is glad he doesn’t play in the AL East.
Oh they're barely a AAA team
but he still looked fucking awesome
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
argh
I appreciate that my community mows our lawns for us, but does it have to be at 7 a.m. EVERY WEEK?
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
by Stacey on Jun 9, 2010 7:32 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Strasburg was sensational last night
He topped out at 100 on 2 pitches. Once he settled in he was confusing batters all day, granted it was the Pirates. His change up is wicked and his breaking ball was nasty. He threw one bad pitch and it got whaled.
I left right after he got pulled, but it was quite the experience. I hope he doesn’t pitch against us in Baltimore.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
I looked at the Nats' schedule after they announced his debut.
If he starts every fifth day, he’ll pitch against the O’s on the 25th.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
Shit
That could get ugly.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jun 9, 2010 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Nah
Worst they can do is get shutout. Not like we all haven’t seen that happen this year.
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Jun 9, 2010 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the worst?
What about a perfect game? 27 k’s? If it’s gonna happen, it would be to this team.
Eh
Still just a shutout
"Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!" --Tanner Boyle
by BirdFanInPhilly on Jun 9, 2010 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Worst they can do is get shutout. Not like we all haven’t seen that happen this year lose by 30 after Stras throws a perfect game
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Would the 30 runs or 0/0/0 sting more?
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jun 9, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
The fact that it was to the Nationals would hurt the most.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
phew
thats the game i got tix for!
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Jun 9, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
he hit 101 according to sportscenter this morning
pretty crazy. even the “bad pitch” he threw wasn’t awful. guy just went down and got it. he threw three pitches that were much worse, but not to anybody who can hit.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Jun 9, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I kept my eyes glued on the displayed speed in the stadium, it never hit 101. SC might be embellishing, which is no surprise.
Also, that umps zone was all over the place last night.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jun 9, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
masn had him at 101 a few times
my dad said he didnt see the radar gun at the stadium go over 100 either. wouldn’t surprise me if he got to 101 though since he’s been clocked up to 104. he threw 102 in a game against UVA last year in the CWS.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
There was an annoying Pirates fan behind me
Who was like “they probably altered the gun to make it look like he throwing faster”. Yeah, that would make sense if he didn’t hit 100 on every gun he has thrown against.
"I'm from Maryland, and no one can beat me!"
by John Stephens on Jun 9, 2010 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
that and he was bitter his team can't hit
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
When the Nats play the O's on the 25, 26, and 27th
Does anyone know if Starsburg is scheduled to pitch and which day it is?
John S West Jr
by Adam double bubble on Jun 9, 2010 8:14 AM EDT reply actions
All 3
and he MIGHT break 100 pitches in the 7th on Sunday.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
this just in
nationals clone strasburg, start him every game
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Jun 9, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
No, I'm guessing 30 pitches a start against the O's
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
the way we swing at first pitches
i’d think only 27. or maybe even less if garrett atkins starts since he’s an automatic two outs. no pitch required
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
meh
yea he was awsome but can he keep it up nope. the pirates were afraid and lived up to his hype after another start teams will catch up to him
Os21Fan?
Paging Os21Fan….. last call…. boarding. Os21Fan?
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 9, 2010 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions
late to the party
bummed that nobody picked up my slack
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Wow, that Strasburg kid sure is something...
I wonder if ESPN had anything to say about him? No? What’s that, they were all too busy cleaning the collective jizzum off their suits to do a show? How about that….amazing….
"arod eats bonersauce"~thewaywardO
This stupid fucking “baseball” team!
"I do think the O’s have sucked balls this season. If that displeases you Luke, then oh well."-birdman
Only in Philly
Wonder if he’s related to fat Philly fan kid…
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Was there anything besides that?!
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
personal favorite
“My mom caught me having a 3-some in her bed, now what?”
They ain’t kidding when they say “Highly Clickable”. I REALLLY want to click it to find out what happens, but I am at work. The suspense is killing me.
of course he is!
i knew fat boy had to have a brother. he might have even birthed the kid
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Jun 9, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would they do that?
Let Guts face the Yankees for crying out loud.
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
I agree
GUTS has been decent at times against them, and why bring the new guy in to face that Hall of Fame lineup? I like his chances better against the Mets.
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 9, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm guessing it is because Guthrie was complaining about soreness
…during his last start.
Still stupid, though. Fucking start Berken or Hendo against the Yankees and save Arrieta for when you planned to fucking use him.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
For real
He’s not a spot starter and the O’s aren’t in any kind of race. His debut should be planned for and thought out.
One tiny part of me will like if he pitches tomorrow, though, because I’ll be out of town Saturday (but mostly I’ll be annoyed). I’d like to go to the game. I made it to Tillman’s and Bergesen’s debuts last year (and Berken, but whatever). Missed Hernandez because it was the day before Matt Wieters Day and Matusz because it was on the road.
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
Arrieta's turn in Norfolk is Thursday
I don’t see that this is such a big deal.
One side of the argument is that you give the kid a bunch of stiffs (like the Pirates) as his first start to give him an easy first start.
The other side is that you show tremendous confidence in the kid by saying, “Sure, we’re pitching you agains the Yankees. We have faith.”
Do you all really think a poor outing against the Yankees will somehow ruin Arrieta?
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I don't think it'll ruin him
But it can’t hurt to let him build his own confidence with a successful outing. Arrieta has had some issues with walking guys in the minor leagues, and the Yankees are one of the most patient teams out there. Plus, if they were planning on using him Saturday, the Mets aren’t stiffs this year. They’re not great, but they’re not the Indans (or, um, the Orioles).
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
This. Let him dip his toes in the damn water before throwing him in the deep end.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
no
and i agree with your second statement. he will be facing them and the rest of the east as long as he is an oriole so you better get to know them now.
Eh
I can’t help but to approach prospects as assets, and to look at how you deploy them from an asset management standpoint.
If Arrieta struggles, for example, as Tillman has, his value is diminished in market terms, even if he’s still the same pitcher with the same ultimate potential for success and failure as he was before. We want to do everything we can to preserve and enhance his value as an asset.
Instead, what it appears we are doing is making decisions based on other factors, including ones that I don’t consider particularly important, such as what puts us in the best position to succeed Thursday in what for us is a meaningless game. The Mets aren’t a bad team; it takes faith to put him in against them too. It also takes faith to make a plan for when a heralded prospect is going to make his debut and stick to it, because you believe in your plan.
The Orioles, once again, don’t seem to have the courage of their convictions – another plan scuppered because of exigent circumstances. I’m not a fan of that.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
This X a million
Bringing Arrieta up now has such a throwing spaghetti against the wall feeling – let’s see what sticks.
I know I want to DFA half the team and replace them with Norfolk, but a starter liek Arrieta is different – you plan this out 2 weeks in adavance, get him on his turn for a planned game, prep him as much as possible with scouting and make sure you have the best lineup available for that day.
It seems like they just thought of this yesterday. Probably not the case, but that’s the way it appears – the Orioles FO mishandling another situation. If you can’t even get conference calls right, and it seems like you’re giving your #1 prospect 3 days notice he’s going to the bigs to start against the best lineup in the game, well, it may actually mean nothing, but it appears to be barely competent.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
FWIW
I think we can make too big a deal about the conference call. I have yet to encounter any organization, no matter how rich, that can consistently not fuck up a conference call.
I don’t understand what exactly about conference calls is so damn hard, but it seems that no one has managed to master the technology quite yet.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
i see where you are going but
wouldn’t that just add more useless presssure with all the hype. The offesne will most likely let him down regardless who they play. It’s a high risk – high reward situation and I am for that. If he can keep his walks down and shows poise in the big show than I will be happy. I would like to see that against a team they play 18 times a year than a team they play 3 times every 2 seasons.
you plan this out 2 weeks in adavance, get him on his turn for a planned game, prep him as much as possible with scouting and make sure you have the best lineup available for that day
He is on turn for tomorrow night. And again, I think the over-emphasis on “making everything perfect” for one game is potentially detrimental. I don’t want us to start handling our starters with kid gloves.
it seems like you’re giving your #1 prospect 3 days notice he’s going to the bigs to start against the best lineup in the game, well, it may actually mean nothing, but it appears to be barely competent.
This is how it happened for many, many years in MLB. Why is it suddenly “barely competent”? The level of second guessing around here has increased exponentially this week.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Must be the 10-game losing streak we just came out of.
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 9, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That's certainly not helping
and to zk: Managers used to worry about RBIs, too. Doesn’t mean decades of convential wisdom is necessarily correct.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
One of these things is not like the others...
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
no, but
i can’t recall in the history of baseball a pitcher whose career seemed to come unhinged because of their disastrous first start against a powerful team.
this is just a non-story as far as i’m concerned.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
well
according to his facebook he is coming up. i dont have links but espn is reporting that. you myface people can look it up.
I think we SHOULD be handling our prospects with kid gloves.
We have absolutely no reason not to.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I respect you immensely,
but I think you’re overthinking.
It also takes faith to make a plan for when a heralded prospect is going to make his debut and stick to it, because you believe in your plan.
I don’t feel it’s important to have such an ironclad plan for when your “heralded prospect makes his debut”. It’s one game out of many that you hope he’ll pitch for the team. The likelihood is that in his first year in the bigs, he will dominate some starts and he will get lit up in some starts. The order of those happening is not likely to have any damaging effect on his career. Learning to pitch in the bigs is about how well you can handle the bad days and the good.
To me it comes down to this: Arrieta has been, in their minds, ready to come up for a while now. This is one of many different viable options for making that happen, not significantly better or worse than the others. To the degree that it didn’t mess up his throwing regimen last weekend, I’m not even upset that they considered having him start out in the bullpen.
One way to keep a kid from having pressure put on him is to not treat him as an annointed one. So far, that perspective has had mixed results with Wieters and Matusz. Saying to Arrieta, “we’re going to bring you up and down, just like we do other pitchers” might be less pressure-inducing than saying, “you’re our hope for the future and we’re going to plan your first ML start with a big roll-out.”
I’m sure if he gets the call for tomorrow, Arrieta will be ecstatic to be making his debut, and that it will actually be more of a thrill to make it against guys that he grew up admiring. He may get lit up as badly as Tillman did, but he won’t care. He’ll have his debut out of the way and will know what he needs to work on. Or, conversely, maybe he’ll pitch effectively for 5 or 6 innings, finish he night knowing he’s ready to compete regularly at the MLB level, and earn another start. Either way, if he’s got what it takes to make it, he will keep it all in perspective and recognize that one particular night doesn’t make or break a career.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Overthinking is my strong suit
But for the rest, I’m not sure I agree.
I don’t think they have felt Arrieta was ready to come up for “some time” – I think he didn’t even get considered in ST, and that was two months ago. And I also don’t think Matusz was brought up with a ton of forethought or by treating him as an anointed one – I remember that they brought him up from AA after promising they wouldn’t bring him up last year when Bergy got hurt. But that’s not really my point.
My point is that this:
Either way, if he’s got what it takes to make it, he will keep it all in perspective and recognize that one particular night doesn’t make or break a career.
…is a line of thinking I feel we simply cannot afford. If he doesn’t have what it takes to make it, we need to keep that a secret from everyone and keep his value high so we can trade him for someone that does. I’m all for tossing our minor prospects into the deep end to see if they can swim. Arrieta is a top 100 prospect – we can get someone good for him right now. If Arrieta is not good, to waste this opportunity and let his stock fall to zero is stupid.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I guess i look at it as
this is (should be) one of our future rotation guys not someone that I want to see gone if a big bat presents itself. Not, he sucked in his debut and now he is worthless becasue I want to trade him come July 31 for a big bat. Not that that is exactly what you are saying but my opinion.
What I'm saying is that he may not be a future rotation guy no matter what
It is therefore up to us to do our best to find that out without letting everyone else know the answer, because if the answer is that he isn’t part of our future rotation, someone else should be who loses because of that.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
well
i like to be optimistic – its good for the skin!!!
i understand what you are saying but what can we really get for a bullpen guy then if thats what he is going to be. I would rather have the O’s take that chance.
Is there really any way to find that out
without having him start several games in the majors, though? If a guy isn’t panning out in the minors, it’s hard to keep that a secret for long. And if he’s doing well in AAA and your player development people like what they see, it’s hard to say whether he’ll make it in the majors without calling him up.
I get your point and mostly agree, but I don’t know how you’d actually go about doing what you recommend.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
i didn't see this before i posted below
but this is exactly my point
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
what the hell?
If he doesn’t have what it takes to make it, we need to keep that a secret from everyone and keep his value high so we can trade him for someone that does.
keep it a secret from everyone? how exactly do you expect this to happen?
do you think there are folks out there who will think, “he’s their number 1 prospect, let’s trade for him!!” and ignore the fact that there are statistics of how he’s performing?
your whole philosophy seems to be about prepping for short-term failure instead of taking a long view.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
He can respect me and still say that
Sometimes I say really stupid shit.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I still respect him immensely
just in more colorful language. :)
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
You can always do what the Angels did
with Brandon Wood – keep him in the minors where he keeps putting up good numbers and generating demand. You think they aren’t kicking themselves over not trading him earlier now?
This happens a lot. The Astros were able to deal Troy Patton to us when his stock was high.
This gets into a lot of issues that I’m not ready to explore in depth, but I think the Orioles have an attachment bias to their prospects. They allow the endowment effect to blind them to the full spectrum of their value.
What is our plan for the possibility that Tillman and Jones and Reimold fail? I’m not saying we should be Billy Beane and trade a Carlos Gonzalez when he shows the first sign of adversity. But how many guys like Daniel Cabrera and Adam Loewen have we run out there until their value was zero?
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
i think it's more about being better at evaluating
we ran out adam loewen until his value was zero while not promoting (and eventually trading) john maine, who was pretty damn good until he got injured and became a habitual liar about his health.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
That too
I think perhaps I’m understating how radically different my attitude about prospects is. I understand that the team not only won’t do this but that essentially no one in baseball thinks this way. But I think the market in baseball players, particularly prospects, is still very inefficient, and that this presents significant arbitrage opportunities.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
You can always do what the Angels did with Brandon Wood – keep him in the minors where he keeps putting up good numbers and generating demand.
And I don’t think Wood was generating much demand after the Angels buried him. A couple years ago, he could fetch a decent prospect but that’s about it.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
It also takes faith to make a plan for when a heralded prospect is going to make his debut and stick to it, because you believe in your plan.
Heralded prospect?! Seriously?! It’s Jake freakin’ Arrieta! The guy projects as a closer by some minor league pundits! He’s a very good prospect but let’s not get carried away.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
He's on every top 100 list published
I think I’m being quite reasonable in my assessment.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
making the top 100 makes you a heralded prospect!
Like I said, he’s a very good prospect, but let’s not carried away especially when some pundits see him as a reliever!
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
are these the same pundits
that see matusz as no more than a #3-4 guy? becasue than I will take that.
I mean in any given year, there’s a whole crop of prospects who are as good as Jake and many of them don’t live up to their projections.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
No, there aren't
According to the majority of evaluators, there are only 60 prospects in all of baseball, and only about 30 pitching prospects, who are as good as Arrieta.
These guys are NOT ordinary. They are extraordinarily valuable, particularly in this market. The Mariners got Cliff Lee for three guys not one of whom was as highly regarded as Arrieta is.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I think alot of us undervalue Arrieta
…which is odd for a fan of the team he’s a prospect for. But we’ve seen Tillman and Matusz come up already (and struggle) and they were both more highly regarded than Arrieta. I think some of us lose sight as to how good this kid really could be.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
He’s very good! But come on, heralded prospect?! Let’s save that label for A prospects like Strasburg, Heyward, Wieters, etc. Arrieta can’t carry these guy’s jock strap.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
I saw Arrieta one time last year
at the end of the year, and when he’s on, he can be very, very good. I think his problem will be getting on consistently, but he very much deserves his elite prospect status.
Fire Garret Atkins.
Like I said, he’s not in the same class as Heyward, Wieters, Strasburg, Ryan Braun or other top notch prospect. That’s elite status in my mind. Arrieta is very good but I don’t think James F or any other other minor league pundit would put him in that same class.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
absolutely
and note the word “top 100” (!), o-n-e h-u-n-d-r-e-d. That’s a valuable a commodity but let’s not get carried away.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
By crop I meant around 30. Again, I don’t disagree with anything you say above but “heralded” prospect is an over exaggeration when EVERY YEAR there are about 30 guys who are as good as Arrieta. He’s a very good prospect like Hayden Penn, Erik Bedard, Matt Riley and other O’s prospects before him.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Well, I guess you think "heralded" is more of a compliment that I do
And, FWIW, Bedard deserved the hype, didn’t he?
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
per Dan Connolly on Twitter,
this ins now official.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Quit saying
“Its just the Pirates”
The Pirates have faced dozens of REALLY good pitchers this year, and none of them have struck out 14.
His stuff was N-A-S-T-Y…. doesnt matter who’s hitting. He’s gonna be good for a long time. Deal with it.
I dont like the NATS in the least, but I like watching excellence. And last night was INCREDIBLE.
Seriously
14k in a debut? Filthy
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 9, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Strasburg has nasty, nasty stuff
I’ve watched a number of his minor league starts before last night and his breaking pitches are straight up ridiculous.
I’m not ready to say he’s gonna be good for a long time, though. Just too many variables. He certainly has the talent to be very, very special, but he’s made one major league start. A lot can happen after that.
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
I think health is the only thing holding him back
He’s pretty much your blueprint for a dominant ace.
by Dingbat Charlie on Jun 9, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I mean - health problems are the only thing that could hold him back
I can’t write gud before noon.
by Dingbat Charlie on Jun 9, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
also, character issues.
not that i know of any, but that can hold a guy back as well.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I'm over it.
Mostly, and I will readily admit this, because everyone around here who’s talking about Strasburg is also talking about Harper. And they then use these two to compare to the O’s. “Why don’t the Orioles get some of these guys?” Because they haven’t sucked enough. Because they haven’t sucked so hard that they were the worst team in baseball two years in a row in a division weaker than the AL East. That’s why. Because they picked #3, that’s why. How many Strasburgs are there running around, idiots? One. And he goes to the worst team in baseball, because that’s how the draft works.
“Hey, I can now name four guys on the baseball team in DC! Why can’t the Orioles turn things around like they did?”
For fuck’s sake.
From the Land of Pleasant Living...
by OEutaw on Jun 9, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
amen
the Nationals still need to find another 10 players or so before they’re going to compete regularly. People will realize this at the end of the season. Or perhaps sooner, when they realize the Nats are playing .333 ball for their past month.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
They are only 6 games back of first place.
And this, after playing .333 ball the past month. They could be in the mix…
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 9, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
you're over it?
if strasburg was on the o’s, we’d be all over this for weeks and rightly so. last night was incredible.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Jun 9, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I could care less talking about Strasburg in relation to the Orioles…. theres no point to make there. He wasnt available, we don’t have him, period.
But he was damn sensational last night and I enjoyed the piss outta watching him pitch.
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 9, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm getting the "we're just bitter about the nationals winning any games" vibe again
who the fuck cares if they get good? they won’t make the playoffs anyways so who cares?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Exactly... I could care less about the Nats one way or another
I dont like em, dont hate em.
I wish em well…. they’re pretty local.
Now if it comes down to them shitting on Os fans, well then I’ll have an earful for em’, but until then ‘Good for them’!
Get em Stras….
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 9, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
same here
i’m a baseball fan and love seeing these young guys come up and play. it’d be cool to see them make the playoffs since they’ve pretty much rebuilt the entire team from scratch and they are “technically” my local team since i’m just outside of DC.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
i know
i fucking hate that he’s younger than me and already has more money than i’ll make in my entire career
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Besides
WTF else are we going to argue about…. which backup catcher should get the nod in Delmarva tonight? lol
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 9, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I couldn't care less if they WERE good.
But they aren’t. What I care about is people thinking they’re good when they aren’t. That’s what bothers me.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
what annoys me is all of the people here finding stupid reasons to hate the nats
who cares if they aren’t good? if they make the playoffs, then they’re good enough.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
haha they are in LAST PLACE why are you talking playoffs???
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Jim Mora would like to have a word with him! PLAYOFFS?!? PLAYOFFS?!?
"arod eats bonersauce"~thewaywardO
i just hope we can win a game!
plus…LAST PLACE is only 6 games out and nobody is dominating in that division right now.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
there are 4 teams ahead of them
All with substantially better rosters (the Mets probably not substantially). Watch that 6 games grow.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
with substantially better rosters?
the marlins?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
yep...they are that much better
that they’re tied for…get this….LAST PLACE with the nationals. yep. that’s how i define substantially better as well.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Did I say they had a better record? I said they had a better roster.
But if you want to make a wager about who has a better record at the end of the year I’m certainly game.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
As evidence
they actually have a positive run differential.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I heard some jerkoff Nats "fans"
last night a few rows behind me saying something absurd like “The Orioles have absolutely no excuse to be this bad – they play in a great ballpark and have a ton of money – they should be competing every year.” I wanted to jab him in the throat.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
yea...fools
people dont understand that the best players go where they can get the most money….aka NYY or BOS
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
My issue with this...
stems from the general over-hype of elite level prospects throughout sports. LeBron was going to be a combo of Magic and Michael, Sid Crosby was going to be the next Gretzky, Reggie Bush was going to be ‘the Michael Jordan of football’, etc….There is this need to constantly satiate fans desire for ‘the best of all time’ type mania.
Strasburg has got some phenomenal talent, no doubt. And he may very well fulfill all of it. Or he may turn out to be Justin Verlander, a very good starting pitcher, but nothing phenomenal. A lot can, and will, happen over the course of the next few months. I’m not going to anoint him the next Walter Johnson, and no one else should either.
"arod eats bonersauce"~thewaywardO
I agree which is why the Matt Wieters Facts annoyed the shit out of me.
Right now, staying healthy is Strasburg’s biggest obstacle.
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
Oh come on....
Did I ever say “LETS RANK HIM IN THE TOP 5 PITCHERS IN HISTORY!!?”….. has anyone. Everyone is excited to see this guy, who everyone claimed have NASTY STUFF, come up and not disappoint in his debut. Thats it and thats all. I was impressed, excited for what’s to come, and overall just entertained by the whole night…
The people doing the “overhyping” are the people coming back with “WELL….. HE COULD GET HURT, ALOT CAN HAPPEN, LETS NOT CALL HIM CY YOUNG JUST YET”. Thats all you guys.. not the reasonable posters on the board saying “wow… the kid had some nasty stuff and WOWEE, what a DEBUT for this kid, Im excited to see more!”
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 9, 2010 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
hey brutha, i’m not trying to give you a hard time. strasburg was fucking electric yesterday. actually, look at my post four posts up (the one marked 9:59).
I came to camdenchat and all I got was this lousy avatar.
daniel cabrera one-hit the yankees.
i don’t see how anyone can imagine he won’t win a cy young some day.
(note to Andrew_G: i’m not really making this comparison. i’m just saying that one game doesn’t mean squat.)
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
oh man that was an exciting game
that fucking guy
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
I was just talking about that game the other day
it still makes me sad. So many wasted brain cells devoted to Daniel Cabrera…
Fire Garret Atkins.
tell me about it.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
ooooo shot down WW
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
aw damn
sorry WW.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
But that was the point of Matt Wieters Facts - to mock the absurdity of it.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I'd still like to see him pitch against an actual major league team.
He’s surely not going to strike out 14 against any team in the AL East.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Still
14k against even the Pirates says something
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jun 9, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes - that he has great stuff and the Pirates have an awful lineup.
Their number 3 hitter is Lastings Milledge. They are a AAAA team. With a better record than the O’s…
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
yea we got it
the nats suck. strasburg only beat a shitty lineup and wouldn’t have any success against anybody else.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
No he's fucking awesome.
But the Pirates are horrible.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
You do know that includes the Orioles, right?
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
disagree
i think its possible. we’re in the AL east. plus, pitchers with less ability than strasburg have shut them down before.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Valentine
is my choice. I’m sure it would go all horribly wrong, but could be fun.
by Dingbat Charlie on Jun 9, 2010 10:06 AM EDT reply actions
Dont be a dingbat, Charlie.
Just kidding… Ive been saying Valentine for a while now.
i like the guy.
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 9, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm glad to see
that Girardi’s father’s Alzheimer’s cleared up enough for Girardi to move to New York four months later. What a nice story!
Fire Garret Atkins.
by Andrew_G on Jun 9, 2010 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Something about that story smells fishy to me.
Why can’t he just be honest and say he didn’t want to manage in Baltmore, didn’t want to work for Angelos, etc., or that he wanted to go the Big Apple and was simply waiting for their call. But no, he’s gotta weave some treacly story about his father. No doubt his father was ill and that’s really a tough thing to face. But I guarantee you that if Steinbrenner had called at the same time the O’s offered him the job, his dad would not be seeing much of lil Joey.
by Fred Sanford on Jun 9, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't know that that's fair
I mean, I do believe that Joe Girardi was holding out for the Yankees position. But it’s pretty cold to write off the fact that he wanted to spend time with his father before his father didn’t know who he was anymore.
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
I'm just tired of getting a pat on the head
from guys like Girardi and Teixeira and so on. “Oh you guys are so nice! But I’m going with the Yankees… but I’m 100% convinced you’ll turn it around sooner rather than later! Keep your chins up!”
Yeah? Fuck you. Just tell me straight – You don’t want to be in Baltimore. It’s fine. I’m not a two year old, I can handle these guys not wanting to be a part of this shitshow, but I’m really tired of being given some bullshit reason involving families or whatever. Fuck all them if they can’t fuck us and tell us they’re fucking us.
Fire Garret Atkins.
by Andrew_G on Jun 9, 2010 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I love your last sentence.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Os21Fan with a new handle?
Is that allowed?
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 9, 2010 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha
Deep inside of all of us lies a FUCKING Os21FAN….
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 9, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
O'sFan21
BTW – unless you are thinking of another angry person that likes to argue and drop f-bombs.
Oops... Perhaps I was thinking of Os21girl...
by Wieters Wieners on Jun 9, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Woe is me!
My concern at the time was there would be so many opportunities for him, I think he’ll be in position eventually to pick and choose where he goes," MacPhail said. "If I had been him, I’d be picking and choosing somebody that wasn’t in the American League East behind Boston and New York.
Perhaps it’s just me, but I am tired of hearing MacPhail basically say “we don’t have much chance because we play against the Yankees and Red Sox”. We know it’s a tougher row to hoe, but giving the impression (true or not) you are quacking in your pants doesn’t instill confidence in you Andy. Give the Rays a call and ask how scared they are.
There's a joke in here
about “quacking” vs. “quaking,” but I don’t know what it is, and I don’t want to get banned by a certain mod.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
That why I printed it without comment.
When you watch the Orioles every night, a beer after dinner turns into a six pack WAY too many times. Stacey
Is anyone interested in getting tickets to see Arrieta pitch?
I’d love to go, but I don’t want to go to a Yankee game alone.
Waiting 'til next year.
Yeah I'm interested
I don’t really want to go to a Yankee game at all but I do want to see Arrieta. Hopefully we’ll hear for sure soon enough if that’s what the O’s are gonna do.
Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21
i would but i'm slightly afraid
of seeing him get bashed by the yanks lineup
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Jun 9, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way, since Avery tends to polarize our communtiy
Xavier Avery yesterday: 3-5 with two doubles.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Bobby Valentine?
Yes please. Im pretty sure he was on my list a while back.
Bring back Andino.
by WestcoastO'sFan on Jun 9, 2010 11:03 AM EDT reply actions
Bobby Valentine, please.
And as many fans as possible need to go to his first game wearing fake mustaches.
Over the next two seasons, with Valentine at the helm, the Mets began a resurgence, finishing 14 games over .500 (88-74) both years. Valentine’s most memorable game as a manager occurred on June 9, 1999. In the 12th inning of a 14 inning marathon with the Toronto Blue Jays, Mike Piazza was called for catcher’s interference on Craig Grebeck. Valentine was ejected by home plate umpire Randy Marsh for arguing the call, and returned to the dugout an inning later in a disguise (a fake moustache). Unamused, Major League Baseball fined Valentine $10,000 and suspended him for three games. The Mets went on to win the game 4-3.[
Orioles take a real prospect in the 32nd round
Joe Robinson, RHP, CC of Southern Nevada
Slightly undersized righty with a fastball in the low 90s topping out at 95, with average breaking ball and change. Projects as a #4/5 starter in the majors. Will take a moderate bonus to keep him from transferring to Georgia.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Has there really been no one worth getting excited about after Machado?
I remember briefly glancing down the list and feeling pretty underwhelmed.
I'll have a review coming up within the next day or two
But not at the usual 2pm today.
My take so far: we’ve had a good draft, just not as good as we could have, and one that is emblematic of Joe Jordan. Which has its upsides and drawbacks.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
explain something to me....
how does this happen in the 32nd round? if the guy’s a real prospect, why does he drop so far? is it just that he isn’t on anyone’s radar?
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Assuming its almost a game of chicken
If he has high bonus demands and its likely we wont be able to sign him, then its basically a risk that we just lose the pick. We decided to take the chance before anyone else.
the before anyone else part is confusing
if nobody took him for 31 rounds, it seems like nobody ever would take him.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
He's on people's radar.
I don’t know exactly why this happens, except that the draft appears to be an inefficient market. Some of it is the limits of scouting – not every team can scout every guy. Some of it is about signability – the guys who are left are not expected to sign for what they are “worth”. But there are still a couple dozen good prospects out there, although the blue chippers, even the unsignable ones, are now gone.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
ok,
so he’s a “good”, not “great” prospect with high bonus demands, is what i’m getting.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Exactly
He’s got enough potential that he could reasonably make the majors as a back of the rotation arm. While that isn’t huge, it is better than what most teams are getting here.
But there is a chance, albeit a small one, that he goes to Georgia, faces better competition, and gets people thinking he’s a mid-rotation arm. And then next year, he’s a 5th to 12th round guy. So to get him in the 32nd, he’s going to want 5th-7th round money.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
What is 5th-7th round money, anyway?
Baltimore is Baltimore. That's kind of what I know. - Manny Machado, 6/7/10
by Eat More Esskay on Jun 9, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, the MLB does slot bonuses through the fifth round
The last two years the slot for the last pick in the fifth round was $155,000. From there on out, the cap for bonuses without approval from the commissioner’s office is $150,000.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
So that's basically chump change, right?
Three guys at that price is basically the ML minimum salary – provided you’re picking the right guys there is a favorable chance of getting value on the investment?
Baltimore is Baltimore. That's kind of what I know. - Manny Machado, 6/7/10
by Eat More Esskay on Jun 9, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
This just in: O's won't face Strasburg after all.
According to some Nats-based MASN flack, the Nats are having Strasburg pitch every five days rather than every five games, regardless of off days.
So he’ll pitch on the 23rd against KC and the 28th against Atlanta and we will not see him in our series.
Baltimore is Baltimore. That's kind of what I know. - Manny Machado, 6/7/10
Screw that
I’d like to have SOME chance of winning against a team or 2 for the rest of the season. I hope we face every 3, 4, and 5 pitcher from every team the rest of the year. I rather see an O’s win than a great start by the opposing pitcher any day of the week (although I am kinda conflicted about W’s and L’s now, as I really would like to land Rendon next year).
I’m a baseball fan, sure. But i’m an O’s fan 1st.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
well yea me too
although there are a few pitchers out there that i like seeing win. halladay comes to mind as one of them.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
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