Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Dallas Cowboys Projects: Andre Holmes

Lessons from the Diamondbacks?

As I'm sure many of you have heard, D-Backs GM Josh Byrnes was fired yesterday along with manager AJ Hinch.  I've always been a fan of Josh Byrnes.  He infused his team with players from the farm system and made a great trade for Dan Haren.  Not to long ago, the D-Back's system was stacked.   In 2006, John Sickels rated their top five (!) prospects as A prospects with two B+ prospects following behind. 

 

1) Carlos Quentin, OF, Grade A
    Hitting .284/.413/.474 for Triple-A Tucson, underperforming compared to what he did at the same level last year. This is not uncommon, a player not hitting as well in his second Triple-A year as he did in the first. The theory is that this is due to discouragement. Quentin's status has slipped but I still think he is a good prospect.

2) Stephen Drew, SS, A-
    Hitting .283/.340/.437 for Tucson, like Quentin he isn't hitting quite as well as expected. Still a top prospect.

3) Chris Young, OF, A-
    Hitting .267/.346/.496 for Tucson, again less than anticipated. Is Tucson playing more like a neutral park this year?

4) Justin Upton, OF, A-
    Hitting .279/.348/.405 for Class A South Bend in the Midwest League, certainly not spectacular numbers although the hitting context is not an easy one.

5) Conor Jackson, 1B, A-
    Hitting .275/.374/.414 in 67 games for the Diamondbacks. Just six homers but has a 34/26 BB/K ratio in 222 at-bats. I still believe in his bat long-term.

6) Matt Torra, RHP, B+
    Rehabbing a shoulder injury.

7) Carlos Gonzalez, OF, B+
    Hitting .313/.363/.540 for Lancaster in the California League, 10 homers, 10 steals. Tools hound, has knocked 28 doubles. Strike zone judgment is still an issue but he is making progress.

Star-divide

What's happened to these guys?  Quentin was traded to the White Sox in 2008 and played like a beast before settling into mediocrity.  Stephen Drew has been a solid SS.  His defense has improved after a rough start and his bat is good enough for SS.  Chris Young played great in 2008, but he has been relatively unremarkable since then.  The Justin Upton has been great and will soon lead the troops in Afghanistan to victory.  Torra is flipping hamburgers somewhere but CarGo has been a very good player.  Unfortunately, it hasn't been with the D-Backs.  Finally, Mark Reynolds and Miguel Montero were also decent prospects as well, but weren't blue chippers.    

Why do I bring this up?  I'm not sure.  On one hand, I find all of this discouraging.  The D-Backs, armed with a far superior farm system than the O's, have scuffled since making the playoffs in 2007.  The development of the above players players have stalled while other players have left and flourished (e.g., CarGo).  Like the O's, maybe the D-Backs simply lack the wherewithal to develop young players.  On the other hand, perhaps neither the O's or D-Backs are incompetent at player development.  Perhaps these players wouldn't have developed with any team.  It should be said that the above players aren't bad by any means.  Drew is solid.  Young is decent.  Mark Reynolds has been quite good.  And Montero is certainly a viable major league catcher.  But none of them are stars, the Justin Upton being the exception.  And it doesn't bode well that the Quentin and CarGo have produced excellent seasons after leaving the D-Backs.  

Finally, I will say that the Os need to get on Josh Byrnes.  There's part of me that wants him over Andy MacPhail but his shaky player development record leaves me nervous.  But I think he can be asset to the organization in some capacity.  He's exactly the type of forward thinking executive that the O's desperately need.   Get on it Andy.  

Are there any lessons to be learned from the D-Backs that apply to the O's?  Have at it.  

FanPosts are user-created content and do not necessarily reflect the views of the editors of Camden Chat or SB Nation. They might, though.

Comment 16 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Around SB Nation

Angels 25 Man Roster in Place

Apr 2012 from Halos Heaven - 76 comments

Who Assembled the 2012 Angels?

Apr 2012 from Halos Heaven - 61 comments

Weaver Opens Angels Winning

Apr 2012 from Halos Heaven - 184 comments

Comments

Display:

All it tells me

is that player development is akin to walking into a big casino. If you have a lot of bills in your billfold, and if some of those bills are hundreds, then you stand a better chance at winning some money, but you still stand a pretty good chance of being thrown out at 3 in the morning for not paying for that last cocktail with the money you no longer possess.

Well, that’s not all it tells me, but that is the gist of it.

Fire Julio Lugo.

I like baseball, movies, good clothes, fast cars, whiskey, and you... what else you need to know?

by Andrew_G on Jul 2, 2010 1:51 PM EDT reply actions  

All it tells me is that player development is akin to walking into a big casino.

I see where you’re going but I don’t quite agree. There is a pattern. Star prospects typically turn into a decent big leaguers. But it is a big casino in predicting who will become stars.

Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.

by birdman on Jul 2, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not going to defend a metaphor too long

but a star prospect has a higher chance of becoming a good big leaguer than a B prospect. Just like a $100 bill has a higher chance of becoming $1000 than a fifty does.

Anyway, my larger point: with these prospects, you’re playing percentages. Justin Upton has a XXX% of becoming the next Ken Griffey, Jr. Josh Bell has a YYY% of becoming the next Ryan Zimmerman. Of course, Bell also has a WWW% of becoming the next Tony Batista. AND we can argue about the values for X, Y, and W, and heck, we’ll never even know if we were right. There are literally no “Sure Things” just like in poker (or, if you will, Baccarat).

Fire Julio Lugo.

I like baseball, movies, good clothes, fast cars, whiskey, and you... what else you need to know?

by Andrew_G on Jul 2, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

right, there are no sure things but there are patterns

and a pattern is inherently contradictory with a “casino” metaphor. in other words, it’s still a gamble but with prospects, some of the dealer’s hand is showing with you can use to increase your odds.

Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.

by birdman on Jul 2, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Eh

I think the Diamondbacks are in good shape. Besides their bullpen, they really have a pretty solid team, and that is counting some bad luck like Conor Jackson’s freak illness. They have developed a superstar in Upton and an ace in Brandon Webb, as well as a young core in Young, Reynolds, Montero, and Snyder. And the Kelly Johnson signing was great.

They made some mistakes too, primarily in trades – the price they paid for Haren was exorbitant, and the Edwin Jackson trade was terrible. And they made that horrible investment in Eric Byrnes. But the margin for error in this game is very slim.

That said, a lucky break or a smart move or two is all it will take for the Diamondbacks to regroup. They have a problem with having lost Webb, and Dan Haren is good but not great. But they don’t have that far to go with their current core, and if they decide instead to rebuild, they have lots of great talent to sell.

To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa

by James F on Jul 2, 2010 1:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Well, the D-Backs do have a 31-48 record. I don’t know if they’re in good shape. But they’re not in a bad either. Like I said, they do have a bunch of solid players.

Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.

by birdman on Jul 2, 2010 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

So there is a lesson to learn
the price they paid for Haren was exorbitant

"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law

by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 2, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

manager hunt

From what I hear, AJ Hinch lost the clubhouse which is partially why he was fired (I imagine his crappy record is the big reason). I know in the other thread, people are talking about hiring a manager who will rub the players the wrong way because we’ve had two managers who cuddle players. But I’m concerned someone like Showalter will quickly lose the clubhouse and tune him out. Say what you want to say about DT, but the players respected him and played hard for him (by and large, I’m sure we can point to exceptions like B-Rob lollygagging to 1B).

Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.

by birdman on Jul 2, 2010 4:00 PM EDT reply actions  

but the players respected him and played hard for him

i think there are MANY examples of this not being the case starting about 3 weeks into the season. and lots of players did not respect trembley. they just weren’t vocal about it.

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Jul 2, 2010 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

How do you know they didn't respect him?

I know that when he was the manager we didn’t hear any of this whining to the press like with Samuel here. I mean, he had to go, I’m just saying.

Isn't it almost impossible to believe that none of the perfect games this season have been thrown against us? -O'sFan21

by Stacey on Jul 2, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

wait...

what’s all the samuel whining?

At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!

-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland

by j.q. higgins on Jul 2, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

there was stuff about certain players being notably silent when others were defending him.

cla was one, although he hardly counts.

i don’t think anyone can say how many supported him at the end of the day. the ones who support make a lot of noise; the ones who don’t keep their mouths shut.

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Jul 3, 2010 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

when you are asked to do something by a manager and don't ...

I believe that to be classic disrespect

A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings. - Earl Wilson

by col_kl1nk on Jul 6, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okey dokey. If he lost the clubhouse, that only adds fuel to the fire. I’ll only say that he should be fire a lot earlier then if he lost the clubhouse starting 3 weeks into the season.

Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.

by birdman on Jul 2, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chris Young has rebounded

and is on pace for a better year than the one he had in 08. Still doesn’t hit for average, but his power numbers are okay and all his numbers are up from 08 (not to mention 09). not a great year, but his best to date.

by Luke E on Jul 2, 2010 6:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Quentin has been on fire this year

If he stays healthy he could blast his 2008 season out of the water

by wishEYEhadCRABS on Jul 13, 2010 4:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The SB Nation blog covering the Baltimore Orioles.

Please read our Community Guidelines

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Dscn6381_small
Oriole Birthday Mantra.
Small
On Being an Oriole Fan in Israel
Wieters_small
The O's and Early Bullpen Usage
Mlb_orioles_wieters_240_small
O-R-I-O-L-E-S! *NOT* Day-O!
Cc_small
Awesome Stuff

Recent FanPosts

Imagescalwmbnw_small
Brian Roberts story continues to unfold
Small
Okay, okay, I give! I'm sucked in!
4fgfgjfxe30x64uwibpb59rg9_small
Help with Baseball Statistics
Small
I have to ask...
091_small
Rooting for the Red Sox
4fgfgjfxe30x64uwibpb59rg9_small
Can we get a broadcasting coach or trainer for Mike Bordick?
Pbr_12_pack_small
Literary Lounge

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Official Sponsor of Camden Chat GameThreads

Tankeray_medium
Tankeray provided by dayzd toe


Bowser

Cc_small Stacey

Koopa Troopas

Baltimore_oriole_avatar_small zknower

P1030831_small 2632

Rainbowsmall_small duck

Esskay_small Eat More Esskay

Youppi-192_small Andrew_G

Goombas

Birdman_small birdman

Thumbnail_small j.q. higgins

Img_0927_small dfa

4840750964_54cdc24eef_small James F

091_small WestcoastO'sFan

2009_june22_philliekid3_small twistedlogic

Yoshi_small PaulFolk