Friday Bird Droppings
Recaps of last night's thoroughly weird night can be found at StarTribune.com, MASNsports (with post-game Juan), Orioles.com, and The Sun.
Three Orioles ejected in wild seventh inning | orioles.com: News
"I guess emotions were very high tonight," said Samuel, who stomped on his hat and flung it onto the mound like a Frisbee as he stormed off after being tossed. "And as a result, we saw what happened."
Security shrugs as O's mope runs laps around Camden Yards - Big League Stew
With video goodness.
Ty Wigginton turns in solid rant as trio of O's earn ejection - Big League Stew
BLS heartedly approves of last night's display.
Steve Melewski - Wigginton and Krantiz
"I didn't say anything," Kranitz said. "I sarcastically clapped in the way that the umpire, I guess Bill Hohn took offense to. Yeah you know I shouldn't have done that. It wasn't the right thing to do, but you know, you get frustrated."
Steve Melewski - The Umpires Speak
Gary Darling admitted he blew the call, but refused to say what Rick Kranitz did to get ejected, aside from saying "[H]e knows what he did." That's what I said to my son when he was 3. I think Darling can do a little better than that.
Orioles Insider: The sound of an Orioles roster crunch
The O's will have turned over 20% of their roster by the time Brian Roberts and Matt Wieters are activated this weekend. So, who's next to leave?
Roberts nears return for Orioles - Carroll County Times
"We have to meet with [president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail] and see what our medical people say, and if that's what the decision is, that's what will be done," Samuel said. "Andy obviously is going to have to create a roster spot. We have to see which way he's going to go with this." Oh, because this roster is so chock-full of talent we couldn't possibly afford to lose.
Orioles notebook: Second baseman Brian Roberts says he's ready to return
Second baseman Brian Roberts said he was ready to go on Monday, and wants to be activated as soon as possible. Catcher Matt Wieters believes he'll return Sunday.
O's to limit workload of Berken, Hernandez | orioles.com: News
The Orioles will limit thre amount of appearances by Jason Berken and David Hernandez, and also be more careful with the amount of times they warm up without entering a game.
Angelos overrules MacPhail? -- MLB FanHouse
"The latest industry rumor had Buck Showalter taking over as Orioles manager in early August. As the search drags on, speculation is that owner Peter Angelos has overruled president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail for the first time since MacPhail was hired, with MacPhail liking Eric Wedge over Showalter."
Showalter still leader for Orioles' managerial job - Scoop Du Jour
"Buck Showalter is a very patient man, which a good thing, because his job interview with the Baltimore Orioles has lasted for seemingly an eternity."
Phillies fire hitting coach Milt Thompson | HardballTalk
Wait, you can do that during a season? Well, what are we waiting for?
Markakis hosts 5k run for charity in August | orioles.com: News
"Join Nick and Christina Markakis for the The Right Side Foundation's Second Annual 5K Run and 1-Mile Fun Walk in Baltimore's Patterson Park on Sunday, Aug. 8. The race begins at 6 p.m. ET, following the Orioles' afternoon home game versus the Chicago White Sox and all proceeds from the race benefit distressed children throughout Maryland."
Rob Dibble Likes the Nationals More Than You Do - Washington City Paper
"GQ says the MASN broadcaster is one of baseball's worst. Ask him if he cares."
IN THE MINORS
Orioles Insider: Minor league game recaps - July 22
I'll be lazy and just link to Dean Jones Jr. today. Norfolk won, Bowie lost, Frederick lost, Delmarva lost, Aberdeen won, Bluefield won and the GCL Orioles lost. Nolan Reimold went 4-for-4 with an RBI for the Tides.
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Comments
video of the fan on the field
http://www.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DffWxVvHLwXM&v=ffWxVvHLwXM&gl=US
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
by Stacey on Jul 23, 2010 8:34 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
What, the BLS link not good enough for ya?
"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page
by duck on Jul 23, 2010 8:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
sorry dude I didn't read all your links from my phone
Is it the same video?
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
by Stacey on Jul 23, 2010 8:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffWxVvHLwXM
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
by Stacey on Jul 23, 2010 8:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why didn't he just bolt out of the stadium when he had a chance?
That would have been epic
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 23, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
I remember the guy who ran from the outfield last year tried to hop back into the stands.
"[The] dictionary is the only place that success comes before work." - Vince Lombardi
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jul 23, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
clearly, the only solution...
is more bro-tasing.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
by j.q. higgins on Jul 23, 2010 9:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
some guy blocked him
i was kind of annoyed by that. #1 it would’ve been awesome to see someone “escape” from that situation. #2 the game probably would’ve resumed earlier.
I was in the RF corner, and just about the entire 1st base side of the stands were waving at him to come over to us. I think he got too tired though.
The Orioles will limit the amount of appearances by Jason Berken and David Hernandez, and also be more careful with the amount of times they warm up without entering a game.
Did this only just occur to them?
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
I wonder what the f-bomb sounds like in a Latino accent.
We should ask last night’s umps!
"[The] dictionary is the only place that success comes before work." - Vince Lombardi
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jul 23, 2010 9:09 AM EDT reply actions
Well, Peter...
….if you’re going to overrule someone, you might want to actually, y’know, rule.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Rob Dibble will fight you!
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
just as soon as...
he finishes slouching and glaring at you w/ contempt.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
by j.q. higgins on Jul 23, 2010 9:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Did you read some of the comments on that article?
Ridiculous…..
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
by NewYorkOriole on Jul 23, 2010 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
just because he is a character...
does not mean that he had character.
btw, know who’s really disappointing in the booth? millar.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
by j.q. higgins on Jul 23, 2010 10:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
trade fodder
so, w/ the angels getting callaspo to play 3rdand brandon wood being out of options, any interest or is he just another free swinging problem child?
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
by j.q. higgins on Jul 23, 2010 10:18 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
If he wasn't out of options maybe
I cant see him doing us any good on the major league roster. He could be a decent reclamation prospect once his contract is up and a team can send him to the minors, but right now i dont see anyone touching him.
The dude OPS'ed .910 last year in AAA
He doesn’t really need more time in the minors, he has less than 400 MLB AB’s. Granted I haven’t seen him play for those games and by the numbers he was completely inept. But if the price is right (wiggy or tejada maybe?) I would love if they gave him the rest of the year at 3B to see if he can figure anything out.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 23, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
other news
hayden Penn’s been sold by the pirates to a Japanese team.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
by j.q. higgins on Jul 23, 2010 11:18 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
You know this manager search is some dumb-ass, needless ordeal
Showalter has greater name recognition. That’s important to Angelos. He owns the majority of the team so he has final say. But you know the entire ordeal will be arduous and exasperating for those involved with resulting bitterness. As far as I can tell, that’s how the Orioles run their business and it’s at the heart of why they suck so badly.
Showalter ought to think real carefully about walking into it. Sigh.
From @BirdlandInsider, via @Britt_Ghiroli:
Aug. 3rd T-shirt Tuesday announced… #18 Felix Pie!
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
Adorable.
"[The] dictionary is the only place that success comes before work." - Vince Lombardi
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jul 23, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Huh
That’s nice, I guess. I’m not gonna lie, though, I kind of enjoy being the only person in Baltimore rocking a Pie t-shirt.
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
Think anyone else has an Atkins t-shirt?
I bought one off the clearance rack at OPACY for $10 the other day, and can’t wait to start wearing it to every game as a hilarious reminder of how bad we are. Now that I think about it, I might start collecting really awful/obscure player tees. For instance, I would LOVE a Wade Boggs Devil Rays tee.
"This club is not a good club." --Jim Palmer
Andy MacPhail should have to wear one
just to remind him of how very bad at his job he has been this year.
Hang onto me, baby, and let's hope the roof stays on
so now that people think Showalter is Angelos's guy,
does that mean everyone will be clamoring for Wedge now?
Nope. I am firmly entrenched on the Buck bandwagon.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
by PBR me ASAP! on Jul 23, 2010 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah...
i’m a buck-backer, not a wedgie.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
by j.q. higgins on Jul 23, 2010 12:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Meh
Do any of us really trust MacPhail more than Angelos at this point?
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
When it comes to baseball decisions, I do without a doubt.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
Lay off the AM haterade
Think about what you just said. Angelos destroyed this franchise for many years, you dont have to like AM but i’ll take AM over Angelos all day if those are my options.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 23, 2010 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Can I name anyone
I wouldn’t take over Angelos?
No one is coming to mind…
Has there ever been a cooler Oriole than Eddie Murray? I mean, just straight up cool. Like a bad, suave dude. You know what I'm sayin'. COOL. SC 7/24/08
by 33 on Jul 23, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
i know that you hate the prospect roundabout and the Atkins/Gonzalez/Tejada signings by MacPhail,
but this is pretty high blasphemy. MacPhail actually has a plan and has mostly drafted and traded well. Angelos’s plan was to throw money at aging veterans and hope they stay healthy. Really, you can’t even compare the two. Even if you blame AM for all of our prospects struggling, you can’t deny that he built up a stronger farm system than it’s been since the 80’s.
Rumor: Teams calling about Corey Patterson
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/07/your-morning-phil-oswalt-dempster-patterson.html
3. Rumor of the day: The Orioles are getting calls about Corey Patterson, the ex-Cub retread. He’s seen as a possible bench part for a contender, as he’s hitting .277 with five home runs runs and 17 stolen bases. Patterson’s numbers against right-handed hitters are especially good. Could he be a candidate for the White Sox bench if Ken Williams limits himself to fine-tuning moves?
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
Somebody needs to proofread before he submits his articles.
Patterson’s numbers against right-handed hitters are especially good.
That said, it would probably be very good just to get Corey off the roster now that Luke and Pie are both back.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
do it now!
it’s been real, corey.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
by j.q. higgins on Jul 23, 2010 12:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
“The latest industry rumor had Buck Showalter taking over as Orioles manager in early August. As the search drags on, speculation is that owner Peter Angelos has overruled president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail for the first time since MacPhail was hired, with MacPhail liking Eric Wedge over Showalter.”
Thank god Andy likes Wedge.
Chris Needham, who proposed a "Fire Rob Dibble" movement early in the 2010 season on his Nationals blog, Capital Punishment, concurs with Mottram. "We all like a certain level of homer, but he takes it too far," says Needham, who is also a contributor to the sports website SB Nation DC. "He’s a fan in the booth, and he’s not educating fans."
Of all the complaints he’s heard, Dibble says there’s only one that bothers him. "The notion that I don’t know the game is laughable," he says.
The homerism isn’t what bothers me about him. Or even his level of knowledge. He’s smug, intolerant of different viewpoints, and completely unwilling to embrace 21st century baseball analysis. That’s why he sucks. And the fact that he looks douchy is icing on the cake.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
Sun reporting
Roberts likely to be activated for tonight’s game; Moore to be DFA’d.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Well, I guess...
sunglasses
…sometimes less is Moore.
(YEAHHHHHHHHHHHH)
Baltimore is Baltimore. That's kind of what I know. - Manny Machado, 6/7/10
by Eat More Esskay on Jul 23, 2010 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe Maddon
“There’s so much ready information now that was not available a couple years ago — and even if it was, I don’t know if everyone wanted to read it or understand it or try it,” Maddon said. "The fact that I get so much good stuff from upstairs, it permits me to look at these things and feel somewhat confident about doing them.
“Being able to look over information like I’m able to now and have it be so involved and accurate, it gives you a little more confidence when doing these types of things.”
Maddon has made plenty of decisions that conventional baseball wisdom might deem unusual. He slotted Jaso, a “slow” catcher, at the leadoff spot in 14 games because of his high on-base percentage and has used a few players, quite literally, all over the lineup.
This season, the Rays have had six leadoff hitters, five cleanup batters, 10 players in the five-hole and a whopping 12 in the sixth spot. Zobrist has batted everywhere but eighth and ninth, Rodriguez everywhere but third and fourth and Jaso everywhere but second and fourth.
While Maddon has certainly used some unconventional methods this year, like on June 2 when he loaded his lineup with righties and had all his switch-hitters bat right-handed against Toronto right-hander Shaun Marcum. The Rays wound up winning, 7-3. But, he said, he doesn’t do any of it based purely on hunches or gut feelings.
“There’s something to back it up,” Maddon said. "If I say, ‘I just feel like if you did this, we might be better off,’ that doesn’t carry as much weight.
This is exactly the type of forward thinking this organization needs.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
Let's trade Luke for Maddon!
"[The] dictionary is the only place that success comes before work." - Vince Lombardi
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jul 23, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes I think
I should just give up and become a Rays fan. I’m already going to root for them to win the AL once the postseason starts…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
How can they hit in different spots like that?
Don’t they “feel comfortable” in particular roles?
The amount of bullshit that our team believes for no reason at all makes me nauseous.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
this this this
“bullshit the our team believes for no reason” is everything. EVERYTHING.
Hang onto me, baby, and let's hope the roof stays on
Maddon has made plenty of decisions that conventional baseball wisdom might deem unusual. He slotted Jaso, a "slow" catcher, at the leadoff spot in 14 games because of his high on-base percentage and has used a few players, quite literally, all over the lineup.
Yup, for example, could you imagine DT/Samuel using Jaso in the lead off spot? The lead off spot HAS to be a speed guy. It doesn’t matter if he can get on base.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
to be fair, we don't really have anyone other than nick that can get on base right now
but your point stands
yeah, there's isn't a Jaso on our team
But, for example, if the 2007 version of Millar was on our team, he would never see the leadoff spot.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
nick, by the way
would be the heir to Roberts’ leadoff spot on basically any other team (not the Royals…and not the Reds or Astros, but most good teams)…here, all we’ll ever get is “why doesn’t this guy get more extra base hits? Is he a girl in drag or sumthin’?”
Hang onto me, baby, and let's hope the roof stays on
idk, i think he's better as a #2 hitter.
I don’t think their are many teams that would bat Nick leadoff, the Rays would on occasion, but beyond that i don’t see many teams doing it.
gets on base a ton
isnt a big home run threat…I say that sounds like a leadoff guy.
but the difference between leadoff guy and two hole hitter is nil.
Hang onto me, baby, and let's hope the roof stays on
not true, #2 hitter is supposed to be the best overall hitter on the team
leadoff guy sacrifices power for OBP, and #4 sacrifices avg and strikeouts for power and walks. #3 hitter should be 4th best hitter on the team, and also a good OBP guy.
Really?
I thought an optimum lineup, statistically, was just ranking your hitters in descending order of OBP.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I dont think thats completely true
Isn’t there value in having a good SLG% after the high OBP as well. Also, statistically you dont want your worst batter #9 because then he’s always making a mess of things for your best hitters?
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 23, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not the stats expert here
but I thought the BP guys determined the optimum lineup was just ranking OBP from greatest to least. I don’t think they care about somebody “making a mess of things for your best hitters” – they care about getting the useful hitters the most ABs and the useless hitters the least ABs. Over the course of the season you want your worst hitter having as few ABs as possible.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I don't know BP
says sorting OBP from greatest to least results in the most runs scored over the course of a season. Slugging can make up for a lower OBP, but I still think OBP ranking is the optimum lineup for runs scored over the course of a season.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
this is from The Book,
which in sabre circles is at least comparable to BP. Honestly, I think it’s probably debateable, and I could see the merits to either side, but looking at it logically, and reading the analysis this seems to make a little more sense to me.
I don't know
I just think you want your weak hitters to get as few PAs as possible over the course of the season and your strong hitters to get as many PAs as possible. Everything after that starts not making as much sense to me.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I'm fine with this
As thats the general point to it all
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 23, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i don't think anyone will argue with that
well, anyone hear anyway. Samuel or Trembley might argue with you about that though.
So to look at an extreme example
If you had a Juan Pierre type hitter who had the 3rd highest OBP, you would bat him 3rd instead of a player with a slightly less OBP but much great SLG? Its all about getting your best hitters the most AB’s, and we can all agree that OBP isn’t the end all of batting stats.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 23, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
here
Sorting a lineup in descending order of OBP yields the most runs, but players with high SLG can offset a low OBP as early as third in the lineup. The conventional lineup’s most egregious flaw is that it costs the game’s best players about 18 PA per lineup spot per season. If Barry Bonds led off instead of hitting fourth, he would see about 54 more PA per year, adding perhaps 10 runs to the Giants’ offensive output. Teams without a player of Bonds’s caliber could gain about 10 runs (1 win) a year by routinely batting their players in order of descending OBP.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
from a purely sabre perspective, this is true,
but under this analysis, Barry will come up after the worst OBP guys on the team. So he will most likely come to bat with no-one on base and an out or two already taken. Whatever Barry then does, is setting up the players behind him, who aren’t nearly as good as him, with him on base and outs already taken.
I think giving Barry more PA would increase his worth for sure, but I think it would most likely hurt the run-production of the team. Although, I’m nowhere near the level of BP or Tom Tango, so I’m just guessing.
doesn't total runs scored over the course of the season consider "run production"?
I don’t think there’s any other kind of run production that matters.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Again, just guessing here.
But to find out how many runs a player is worth, you take their wOBA and multiply it by the number of PA’s they have. So if you give your best hitter more PA’s, than he is going to be worth more. I won’t argue that.
However, having Barry continously bat with noone on-base is going to hurt the team. Ideal line-up construction is about maximizing your players abilities to score the most runs.
And I used wOBA instead of VORP or whatever because I don’t know the BP stuff very well.
But they aren't talking about runs a player is worth
they are talking about runs the lineup would produce. The whole point of their analysis was to create a lineup that would score the most runs. They weren’t trying to maximize individual performance.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Well the last batter thing
Was more focused on the NL where the pitcher bats. From that article from strat you can see they said something along those lines about batting the pitcher 8th
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 23, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I have this weird, sinking feeling
that the Orioles consider the leadoff hitter to be the only guy who needs to “work the pitcher”, “take pitchers”, and maybe even “draw walks” – which might explain why Pie felt uncomfortable being told to do something specific instead of just be his usual awesome self.
Hang onto me, baby, and let's hope the roof stays on
Wait a minute. Are you telling me OBP is more important than speed for a leadoff hitter?
Ha! Next thing you’ll tell me that pitcher wins and losses don’t matter.
So, did anyone else notice that Michael Aubrey
hit 7 HR’s this week in Norfolk? 7 HR’s in a week. That’s a bit of a hot streak.
Luke Scott laughs mockingly at your "hot streak."
Good for Aubrey, though.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
I'm shocked we haven't called him up for tonight's game.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I really hope this doesn't end badly. (Again.)
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
wouldnt just be awesome
if Moore gets claimed and then Roberts aggravates his condition tonight?
Hang onto me, baby, and let's hope the roof stays on
I hate you
Don’t harsh my B-Rob buzz.
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
I dont care about Moore at all
like at all…but the pessimism can never die
Hang onto me, baby, and let's hope the roof stays on
I was speaking more about Roberts re-injuring himself
as far as buzz harshing.
I need something, anything, to make me less angry about this team. I NEED healthy Brian.
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
With the way this season has gone...
How can it not end badly? I’m all for just shutting Roberts down for the year.
That's also ending badly
Look, we have invested $30 million in B-Rob beyond this season. That money becomes a worse investment if we shut him down for the year – that will make it a full year since he’s played competitive baseball. He needs to play, if he’s healthy enough, to preserve his instincts and fitness for the future.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
this
People aren’t like cars, you dont have a certain amount of mileage until you fall apart. Staying in baseball shape involves playing baseball, it wont kill him, or hinder him. Well maybe pitchers are like cars in that way but thats besides the point.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 23, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
this is called sunk costs,
i’m kinda playing devil’s advocate here, but he already has been hurt most of the year, and he’s not going to earn his salary anyway, so swallowing the rest of his contract for this year in order for him to get healthy really won’t make a difference in terms of investment.
Although, I would like to say that I agree with the part that he should play if he’s healthy enough.
I'm assuming he is healthy
If he’s not healthy, then of course he shouldn’t be playing.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
like i said, i agree with you
i was just playing devils advocate a little bit there
It's a lost year and now we have wasted valuable recovery time for Brian.
If his L4/L5 disc problem he has is impeding his L5 nerve down his leg(s) in any way still, this move is just so wrong. I had the same discetomy he apparently needs 10 days ago. In surgery at noon, left the hospital by 6:30PM the same day. It takes up to a year to fully recover, but most of the improvement over the next 6 months or so. If they had shut him down months ago, had the surgery, and started his recovery, he would have been prepared for spring training.
The epidurals he had minimize the pain and temporarily improve functioning, but usually don’t result in sufficient healing to resolve the problem. We can hope it did for Brian, but he’d be one of the exceptions.
We all hope this move works out, but if it doesn’t, talk about taking an investment and screwing it up….but, hell, that’s the Oriole Way. And that doesn’t consider the potential additional damage to Brian if it doesn’t go well. So much for conservative medicine.
"Embracing the suck that comes with being a loyal fan of the Baltimore Orioles while maintaining my integrity and honor by steadfastly rooting against Satan's stormtroopers, the New York Yankees. Maybe if the Yankees were playing the Taliban Eagles, I'd root for them, but otherwise, not a chance."
by FromTheBeginning on Jul 23, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Where has it been said that he needs surgery and they are just putting it off?
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Some citations
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5265260
Avoiding surgery and saving part of the year has always been the focus.
On the other hand, his MRI may show a herniation that is not impeding his nerves. If that’s the case, his chosen course of treatments may be fine. And I can understand trying the conservative options to avoid surgery….I did it.
In hindsight, I wish I had just got on with it. There’s 90% to 95% success rate in this type of surgery, and, I’m just guessing here, Brian would probably be able to find a pretty good surgeon. My surgeon had performed the procedure over 2,500 times. At Hopkins, they’d probably call him a rookie.
The critical issue is whether or not the disc protrusion is pushing against a nerve. If it is and the epidurals didn’t “buy” enough time to heal the injured (enlarged) nerve, this has been a waste of time. On the other hand, allowing a disc to continue to push against a nerve can cause more serious problems if aggravated or allowed to persist.
"Embracing the suck that comes with being a loyal fan of the Baltimore Orioles while maintaining my integrity and honor by steadfastly rooting against Satan's stormtroopers, the New York Yankees. Maybe if the Yankees were playing the Taliban Eagles, I'd root for them, but otherwise, not a chance."
by FromTheBeginning on Jul 23, 2010 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
The only mention of surgery in either of those articles is that he’s so far avoided it and that it’s a possibility. I see nothing about him needing surgery and just choosing to put it off.
I’m just saying that just because you had something vaguely related to what he had and got surgery doesn’t mean that he needs surgery. Nobody has once said he needs surgery.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Roberts said very recently that surgery was never an option
Doctors told him that there was nothing to even operate at on and the recovery plan they followed was basically the only course.
Right - that's why I don't get what FTB is talking about...
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
You are correct that there are no citation that he "needs" surgery.
Medical people don’t usually talk in terms of “need”, they talk in terms of “this is what I see and these are the options I think you have.” They then proceed to lay out the pros and cons of each option. For this type of injury, they leave it up to the patient to think it through and make up their own mind.
Just read kba26’s post that says Brian said surgey was never an option and that the doctors told him that there was nothing to even operate on. So that would indicate there was no nerve impingement, so surgery wouldn’t necessarily be one of the options discussed unless there were other complications they diagnosed.
So, I guess the injury wasn’t as bad as I assumed. That’s good and, hopefully, his return will be problem free.
"Embracing the suck that comes with being a loyal fan of the Baltimore Orioles while maintaining my integrity and honor by steadfastly rooting against Satan's stormtroopers, the New York Yankees. Maybe if the Yankees were playing the Taliban Eagles, I'd root for them, but otherwise, not a chance."
by FromTheBeginning on Jul 23, 2010 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
This is generally one of the common sports debates that i just stay out of entirely
since i think its largely impossible for us to have a reasonably informed opinion (even more so than other areas). I dont believe anyone on here is a doctor, and even if someone was, they wouldn’t have access to Brian’s test results. It rare that the decision to have or not to have surgery could be presented to us in a concise enough manner that we could debate the merits of either approach.
What?
Of course injuries in sports are talked about terms of “need” – “he tore his ulnar collateral ligament and NEEDS surgery”???
I think you need to separate your situation from his. They are not really related.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
OK, this has me ready to kill:
Jordan recently indicated there was a setback of sorts in talks with third-round pick, UCLA pitcher Dan Klein.
“We’re a lot more involved in the negotiations with Dan than Manny Machado. It hasn’t gone as I expected it to, but, everything is positive and we’re just trying to get this thing done.
Jordan admitted today that a top ten pick or picks may not be signed. I asked if he is concerned to have just the one top ten pick wrapped up right now.
“I don’t know that concern is the right word, frustration is probably a better word. It’s the latest thing happening these days. I’m not any more concerned with some of these guys, it’s just going through the process.
“I expect to sign all of them. But as this thing rolls along, there could be a casualty, you know in the top ten. That’s not unprecedented with my drafts. Some times we have taken a position and decided to walk away from the player.
“Sure that can happen, I don’t want it to and it’s too early to say it’s going to happen with any of them. I expect to sign them all, but time will tell.
Simply unacceptable for that to happen.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
simmer down
I recall simmilar reports ever since the Wieters draft. We wont know until 8/16, so no use getting upset now. Remember, we even ended up signing Givens last year after we said we weren’t going to.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 23, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
And we left good picks on the table last year too
To be fair, it was an expression, nothing more – I’m not actually that angry.
But I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – we can’t operate this way. We keep making the same mistakes, we’ll keep running the same shitty product out on the field.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Only one top ten pick though I believe
(Devin Harris)
After the top ten its hard to fault them for not signing somebody since that player probably fell because he would be hard to sign.
The state of affairs aren’t great, but they aren’t as bad as you seem to be making them out to be, we aren’t drafting Wade Townsend and not even offering slot these days. Also we aren’t rushing pitchers as bad as the Tigers do. Not to mention we aren’t the Marieners who seem to always think they are one lefty pitcher from domination.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 23, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it is that hard to fault them...
…I think that you should sign every single pick. Period. They are scarce commodities, and an organization can make use of every single one. Not doing so is why we have spent a second draft pick on Klein, who we still don’t have a handle on signing.
I have very high standards in this area. I think we all should.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
*third round pick
I like to think i have high standards in this area too, but 9 out of 10 isn’t bad though (when the 1 is at the back end). And over-slot picks later can further compensate for not getting that 8th or 9th rounder signed. And i dont care how close we are to signing him now, i just care if it gets done. Its not even worth following now.
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 23, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, my frustrations aren't simply from this story
I’m putting together a series of posts reviewing every draft conducted by Jordan since he came on, so 2005-present. But I simply disagree, fundamentally, with this.
9 out of 10 is bad. Overslot picks don’t compensate for failures to sign other picks. Overslot picks compensate for you taking players you like instead of the best available players. This class was an average class to begin with – Sickels doesn’t love it, Seiler doesn’t love it. Start removing the better players from the class, and it becomes a BAD draft.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
to be fair to Jordan, he doesn't set his budget,
so you can’t really hold that against him. Also, not to jump down your throat before I even see your article, but you can’t just cherry-pick his bad picks, you have to compare them with his good picks and with what you or someone else would have done instead.
Well, I don't hold the budget against him
That said, I expect that he knows the budget before the draft, and that he should be able to draft a class that fits the budget.
My intention is to review every single pick – the good, the bad, and the indifferent. For the analysis to have value, it has to be comprehensive.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Not second round pick, btw...
…second pick. We drafted Klein before out of high school and failed to sign him then.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
ahhh thats what you meant
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 23, 2010 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Is there roster space to sign every single pick?
That seems like a tremendous influx of players entering the system every year.
You are such an anger ball lately.
I mean, not without reason. Just an observation.
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
i'm not that upset about this
you have to draw a hard line as a negotiator somewhere, set the players to what their worth and pay them what their worth. If the player changes his mind after you draft him about what he wants, I can’t blame Jordan for that.
Also, theirs no way Dan Klein re-enters the draft next year, the pitching crop is insanely deep, he would be throwing money away unless he believes he will be a starter this year.
and there is uncertainty with the CBA i believe
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Jul 23, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, with a slotting system looming, Klein would be wise to sign.
i think Klein is just posturing. He’ll sign.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
Keith Law says it the best
Ray A. (San Francisco, CA)
I ask you this every week…..what are the odds Dylan Covey goes to college instead of signing with the Brewers? Have Covey and the Brewers talked recently?
Klaw (1:05 PM)
I never answer these questions because they’re pointless. Most of these guys will sign between August 12th and midnight, August 16th. I wrote more than once last summer that there is no such thing as “progress” in these talks, and in fact, many deals are already done but will remain under wraps until the deadline.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
Amen!
you all smoke that stuff to get away from reality.....me I am reality-Sgt Barnes
Tonight's lineup
Brian Roberts 2B
Miguel Tejada 3B
Ty Wigginton 1B
Luke Scott DH
Adam Jones CF
Felix Pie LF
Craig Tatum C
Corey Patterson RF
Cesar Izturis SS
I don’t actually think it’s a bad idea for Nick to get a day off, but I was really looking forward to having Brian and Nick together again.
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
aww damn
i wanted nicky in there for b-rob’s first day. someone to walk him to the bus stop and get his lunch ready and all.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Jul 23, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
ha!
this imagery is priceless.
At all hazards, a man must keep up appearances. Dignity, I say. Dignity above all, Governor. Hear, hear!
-Det. William "Bunk" Moreland
by j.q. higgins on Jul 23, 2010 3:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
But now you can be sure to see them both tomorrow!
And we’ll actually be there tomorrow so that’ll be even better.
Baltimore is Baltimore. That's kind of what I know. - Manny Machado, 6/7/10
by Eat More Esskay on Jul 23, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Can't pry Miggi out of the two hole, though
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
You see
With Corey and Izzy batting 8th and 9th, it’s like you have THREE leadoff batters. Because they’re all kinda petite and not as slow as Wiggy.
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
I guess I can see wanting to sit Nick for Guthrie's start
But it also seems to me that against a lefty starter, bringing in a lefty like Scorey to replace a guy who hits lefties better than almost anyone else in baseball is, well, strange.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
No stranger than anything else this team does
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
office humor
http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p2.html
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Wiggy getting suspended, per Dan Connolly
danconnollysun 3:36pm via txt
#orioles ty wigginton will be suspended three games for arguing and bumping umpire gary darling. He will appeal.
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
Three games?
Fuck me, don’t you pretty much have to murder somebody to get three games?
Baltimore is Baltimore. That's kind of what I know. - Manny Machado, 6/7/10
by Eat More Esskay on Jul 23, 2010 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
nah, MLB has been getting stricter in the last few years
although this is still stupid.
Well, let's hope he's traded...
…before the appeal.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Grienke on the market...
…and ESPN says:
But even now, when more than half the league’s 30 clubs are out of the race, several teams would make the phone call to the 816 to see if they can match up with GM Dayton Moore in a deal for Greinke.
Outside the obvious — Yankees, Red Sox, Mets — the Rangers, Dodgers, Mariners, Orioles, Phillies and Cardinals could also show strong interest.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
What alternate reality would we have to step into for the Orioles to trade for Greinke?
Baltimore is Baltimore. That's kind of what I know. - Manny Machado, 6/7/10
by Eat More Esskay on Jul 23, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Who the hell could we possibly trade for him?
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
Arrieta and/or Tillman.
"[The] dictionary is the only place that success comes before work." - Vince Lombardi
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jul 23, 2010 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
And maybe Britton, too.
"[The] dictionary is the only place that success comes before work." - Vince Lombardi
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jul 23, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd actually feel bad trading for him.
“Hey, Zack, I know it must be really frustrating to be a good pitcher stuck on a terrible team, so guess what? We worked out a trade for you! You’re going to Baltimore!”
"This club is not a good club." --Jim Palmer
I'm sure we could put together a package that KC would accept
but it would likely leave our already fragile farm system in its worst shape ever, which is saying a lot.
we have the prospects, easily.
Just 1 of the Wieters, Tillman, Matusz, Britton group, along with some lesser prospects in the Reimold, Avery, Hoes area would make it easily worthwhile for the Royals. It’s just not worth the deal on our end.
I don't know that I agree, really
Would Tillman/Avery be a better offer than Hughes/Montero? No.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I was talking in terms of value, as in what the Royals would think is a fair trade,
not in terms of what it would take vs the competition. One A and one B along with a couple high upside C prospects would probably be worth it in terms of value. But your right, Hughes/Montero would beat out Tillman/Avery if we went into a bidding war.
Yeah, I don't agree with that assessment.
I think Grienke would demand at least two A prospects and one B. He’s young, signed to a team-friendly deal, and a Cy Young winner. He’d cost significantly more than Lee.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I just looked at Cot's Contracts,
and your right it would probably take 2 A prospects and a B, which we still have.
I don’t think it’s anywhere near worth it for us, but I was just pointing out that we do have the necessary prospects.
Not that this matters anyway, as per Cot’s, he has limited no-trade protection and he’s not gonna want to come here.
It’ll take more than 2 As and 1 B. Almost every team in baseball will be willing to offer that.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
look, my point was that if we wanted to get this done at all costs,w e could.
That’s was all I meant by it. Wieters is still an A. Matusz is still an A. Britton is now a top 10 prospect in baseball, which is generally around an A. Tillman is a B+. Arrieta and Bell are still B’s. Avery and Hoes are both at least B- now. Sickels just said today he’s moved Berry up to B-. Hobgood is still B-. We have plenty of prospects to make a deal.
Wieters is still an A.
I disagree very much. He has over a year’s worth of ML performance. Much of it is bad. His value is not equivalent is a A prospect. Not anywhere close. His value is more of a B-.
Tillman is a B+
Same thing. He has 18 starts under his belt. Much of it is bad. His value is more in line with a B- prospect. I’m not saying these guys won’t be viewed as valuable properties by other teams. I’m just saying their value has dropped considerably from a year ago.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
most talent evaluators still say they’d rather have Wieters than Posey or Santana, and one year of struggles is not enough for his star to dim that much.
Tillman is still 22 years old. He has dominated all levels of minor league competition. He’s worth at least a B
Whenever any mention is made of Greinke possibly going to the Yankees
I get worried about him, given his history. I probably shouldn’t, but it’s my natural instinct.
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
Hell, Dayton Moore is generally known for trading for
veterans who hit for a high average and can’t walk. So he might even except Miggy or Corey along with one of the frontline prospects.
Matusz would have to be the centerpiece
Britton would be the second piece. Tillman’s, Reimold’s, and Wieter’s value are at a low right now. Not sure how much the Royals would value them. They don’t need Bell. Matusz and Britton would have be included. Not sure we have anything else of value to give to the Royals.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
I'd almost feel bad trading for him
Can you imagine how upset he would be? “Hey, Zack, I know it must be really frustrating to be a good pitcher stuck on a terrible team, so guess what? We worked out a trade for you! You’re going to Baltimore!”
Do we think that would help his depression?
"This club is not a good club." --Jim Palmer
Speaking of the Royals
They stacked with 1B/3B: Kila Ka’aihue, Alex Gordon, Billy Butler, Eric Hosmer, and Mike Moustakas. Greinke’s a pipe dream. I would rather focus on getting Ka’aihue or Gordon.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
Well, the Royals only like good hitters,
which in this case means players that can’t walk or hit for power and have a batting average above .270. Which I guess is why Kila and Gordon are inexplicably in AAA right now.
Gordon just got called up
DeJesus is out for the year.
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
Shit like that and what happened to Millwood...
…sure do make a case against waiting to trade players.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
What happened to Millwood makes a case against hurrying to trade FOR a player.
Heh.
Granted, that’s with hindsight at 20/20, but we have to have been able to duplicate whatever he’s given us from somebody we could have gotten on, or near, the scrap heap.
Baltimore is Baltimore. That's kind of what I know. - Manny Machado, 6/7/10
by Eat More Esskay on Jul 23, 2010 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, file this under things I don't understand
Britt:
It is believed president of baseball operations Andy MacPhail wanted to wait until Roberts came back before dealing away utility infielder Ty Wigginton, who has been involved in numerous trade rumors. FoxSports.com reported on Thursday that the Yankees think the asking price for Wigginton is too high, and the Phillies have reportedly bowed out of the Wiggy hunt and are content with their in-house infield options.
Why would we wait for Roberts to get back to deal Wiggy?
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Huffington Post picks up Camden Chat
It looks like they saw a picture post from Duck in an old game day thread and reposted the picture.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/23/the-most-obvious-headline_n_654436.html
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
Oh good I'm dying laughing at those headlines.
"[The] dictionary is the only place that success comes before work." - Vince Lombardi
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jul 23, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
*Oh god*
"[The] dictionary is the only place that success comes before work." - Vince Lombardi
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Jul 23, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions

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