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Effectively Wild


Call me crazy, but I really enjoy the Orioles broadcast team, every single last one of them. They certainly don't have the nuance and polish of the more famed broadcast teams (for my money, the Mets team is the very best, but YMMV). But they're all so delightfully odd. Gary Thorne's drunken singing and "Please drink.............." routine aren't exactly the stuff of legends, but oh do they fit this ragtag group of Orioles. The dynamic between Gary and Jim Palmer is incredibly inviting, the Old Pro and the Drunk sitting at the bar, talking shop.

Even the secondary characters bring something to the table for me. Mike Flanagan is the yang to Palmer's ying, almost blending into the background with his completely inoffensive commentary. He is the pause to Palmer's music. And the radio guys! Joe Angel is a national treasure. But I think my favorite guy is the local color, Dave Johnson. His unmistakable accent and at first surprising insight really make him stand out from the group. It's a complete joy to hear him, as I did driving home from New York on Sunday, actually doing the game broadcast.

Star-divide

But Dave Johnson has his quirks, slightly noisome to the rest of his work. He seems to not express much interest or belief in DIPS theory (which he - and you - should) and while watching Jake Arrieta unload his corker on Sunday, I will paraphrase Johnson thusly:

I think what we've seen from Jake so far is that he can be effectively wild. That's kind of pitcher he can be. He'll walk his share of guys, 4 a game or so, but his stuff is so good that guys won't be making strong contact on it.

 

It echoes an oft-mocked (in my household) line Yankees' broadcaster Michael Kay blurted out earlier this year about A.J. Burnett, that his stuff is so, so good that even he can't control it. Johnson also provided some food for my thoughts, and in particular two questions for me to muse on:

1) Can a pitcher be reliably "effectively wild"?

What does it mean, anyhow, to be effectively wild? As any former Daniel Cabrera fan can tell you, the wild part is walks and HBP and lots of 'em. The effective part, though - what is that? Brandon Morrow is walking 4.12 men per nine, which puts him in the same boat as last year's prized winter acquisition Adam Eaton. But Morrow has a 3.30 FIP and a very bright future, and Eaton is out of baseball. So obviously there is effective pitching, and wild pitching, and they can overlap, but they don't have to.

Two things jump to mind. The first is that there seems to be a cut-off to how wild a start can be. Since 2006, only two starters have gotten enough innings to qualify for an ERA title and walked more than 5 batters per nine innings: Daisuke Matsuzaka and Barry Zito. Both of those pitchers are in long, expensive contracts, and would obviously get more chances to make good on their talents, but nobody sticks in the major leagues if they consistently walk that many batters. There can be no "effectively extremely wild" in major league baseball.

The second point comes back to DIPS theory: a pitcher can walk a high number of batters, but he can only get away with it if he's limiting home runs and if he's missing bats and striking guys out. Brandon Morrow, who walks so many, also happens to lead all starters in K-rate. He is effective because while he walks a lot of batters, he also strikes out A LOT of batters, over 10 per nine. But is that being effective DESPITE being wild, or - as Dave Johnson implies - being effective BECAUSE you are wild (but not too wild)? Or, to put it another way, can a pitcher who walks that many batters still be successful long-term, as if he were reliant on his wildness?

Pitchers with a minimum of 1000 innings pitched, BB-rates over 4.00 (as an arbitrary cutoff point), and FIPs under 4.00 (for more arbitrariness) number just 42. Ever. Just two of those pitchers had career FIPs under 3.00. So I gather that it is incredibly rare to be both that wild and still effective and make a career out of it as a starter. Guys who are wild - effecctive or no - almost always either learn control or fall apart. You can't bank on a kid walking four or so batters a game and still being effective.

But of course, the average walk rate in the majors usually hovers around 3.35 per nine or so. If we move the threshold to 3.5 walks per nine, the number of pitchers under 4.00 FIP and over 1000 IP increases dramatically, suggesting a pitcher certainly can be "effectively wild", even if it's hard to distinguish whether they are effective despite being wild, or effective because they are wild.

2) Can Jake Arrieta be "effectively wild"?

First things first: Arrieta hasn't been effectively anything at the major league level. He has a 6.10 xFIP, a 5.40 ERA, and a Brad Bergesen K-rate. He has had as many nice games as Disaster Starts. He certainly is wild, though. He has walked more hitters than he has struck out (28 to 21). He has walked a lot of batters period. He is in the bottom thirty of all starting pitchers in BB-rate. Point is: he's wild, he's young, he's not very good (yet).

In the minors, Arrieta was indeed "effectively wild". He walked 3.8 per nine but held a 3.56 FIP (and a 3.46 this year despite walking more batters than ever). It should come as no surprise that Arrieta, who was walking 4.2 this year at AAA Norfolk would see that number inflate to 5.2 in the major leagues. He's a wild pitcher, he always has been, it's a big part of who he is and the extra wildness this year is really nothing to be too, too concerned with long term in my opinion. If it persists however we will have a pretty big problem.

More troubling is Arrieta's highly, highly diminished K-rate, which needs to right itself or he stands no chance whatsoever at becoming even a slightly below-average pitcher. Anything I tell you about it just going to copy from here, so I recommend just going straight to the source for some more insight.

We've all been frustrated with this season and the development of our young players. Why can't we have Madison Bumgardner and Buster Posey, succeeding right out of the minor league gate? In Jake Arrieta's case, I think we're simply seeing the growing pains of the "effectively wild" type of pitcher if indeed he is going to ever be an effective big leaguer. As is too often the case, patience is what we need now.

Ugh. I hate needing patience.

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"Effectively wild" always seems to me

a phrase people use when what they really mean is lucky. The dude shouldn’t be getting people out the way he’s throwing, but he is, so we must give it a name, and that name is effectively wild. I also don’t like that term because it implies to me that the pitcher has a certain amount of control over his wildness, which is contradictory. I have trouble thinking of anyone who gets called effectively wild who has a long, prosperous career.

Also, I love Dave Johnson. I very frequently don’t agree with what he’s actually saying, but that dude is living the dream. He’s a local O’s fan who got to play for the O’s and who now gets paid to talk about the O’s. I love how worked up he gets, and I love how he seems to care as much as we do.

Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub

by Stacey on Jul 26, 2010 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

it's true

One of the names with high walk rates but a lot of success in a long career was Nolan Ryan, who walked 4.67 batters per nine (though he got a lot better starting in 1984 with the Astros) but still built a hall of fame career. And yet, is the story on Nolan Ryan that he was “effectively wild”? I can’t say for sure, but I’d guess the story on him has a lot more to do with being a red-blooded Texan fireballer who hit Robin Ventura then beat the shit out of him for getting upset at the beanball.

Dave Johnson crying on the radio when he found out the O’s had traded for his son Steve might be the only really memorable thing about last year. I hope Steve makes it to the big leagues in Bmore just for the old man. That’d be awesome.

I can't describe the way it feels...

by Andrew_G on Jul 26, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have trouble using Nolan Ryan as an example for anything

The dude was a freak of nature.

Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub

by Stacey on Jul 26, 2010 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's kind of my point

if a guy is walking a ton of hitters,there’s nobody you can point to and say “Well, he’s just [whoever…Bob Feller, Randy Johnson, Nolan Ryan]” without looking like a damn fool. You have to bring the walks down to a manageable level in order to succeed. It’s practically a law of nature.

I can't describe the way it feels...

by Andrew_G on Jul 26, 2010 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Randy Johnson is the epitome of "effectively wild"

"Overdrive the sound and make it sound pretty rude." - Jimmy Page

by duck on Jul 26, 2010 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah that's what I was thinking

Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck

by O'sFan21 on Jul 26, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd say a lack of control is never a good thing

If you are better to more accurately locate and vary your pitches, you can appear just as unpredictable to a hitter as an ‘effectively wild’ pitcher who just throws the ball and hopes his own inconsistencies will keep the hitter from accurately predicting the pitch. I think it may be possible for a pitcher to succeed with a high walk rate, but only if they did so intentionally and selectively to avoid giving into hitters in dangerous situations.

by kba26 on Jul 26, 2010 3:43 PM EDT reply actions  

When I hear "effectively wild" - walks are not what I think of

Instead I think of a guy throwing just enough pitches outside of the strike zone to make the strikes that much tougher to hit. Enough balls to make the hitters uncomfortable. When I used to hit, the two extremes – guys that threw too many strikes (there really is such a thing) and guys who threw too many balls – were pretty easy to figure out an approach against. It was the guys who dotted the corners most of the time, but would throw some pitches up by your eyes or down at your ankles often enough to keep you from zoning in, but not often enough to put you in hitters counts regularly or walk you.

I don’t think Arrieta is anywhere near that – he needs substantially better control to be able to do that.

Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck

by O'sFan21 on Jul 26, 2010 4:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Instead I think of a guy throwing just enough pitches outside of the strike zone to make the strikes that much tougher to hit.

To, me effectively wild implies that its a pitcher who does this unintentionally. That even he doesn’t know exactly where the ball is going, and that this is somehow a good thing.

by kba26 on Jul 26, 2010 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, ok, but what is the result of that kind of pitcher?

if they’re throwing a healthy percentage of their pitches in your eyes or at your feet, that means either you’re swinging at them or you aren’t. If you aren’t then that pitcher is going to walk a lot of guys, and if you are , then isn’t the point that the contact is going to be weak because of the location and wildness (intentional or not) of the pitches? But of course DIPS tells us that pitchers can’t reliably always induce weak contact…so wouldn’t that justl eave extra walks as the byproduct? I feel like I’m making a logical leap here…but I think all I’m trying to do is look at results, not necessarily intentions.

If there is a pitcher you have in mind who doesn’t walk a lot of guys, that’d be useful.

I can't describe the way it feels...

by Andrew_G on Jul 26, 2010 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t say anything about a “healthy” percentage – I said just enough to make the strikes look that much better. That could be one or two per AB which would not lead to any walks at all. When a guy does it effectively some percentage of them are swung at, but certainly most will be balls, but he’ll be pitching in counts where the occasional ball does not matter.

All of the most dominant pitcher in history (with the exception of guys like Maddux) have thrown enough pitches way out of the zone to keep the hitter uncomfortable – Pedro, Clemens, RJ, etc.

Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck

by O'sFan21 on Jul 26, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay

but that’s pitching. That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about the euphemism “effectively wild” and that even if it is just a euphemism for “this guy is wild but I still like him because he has chiseled good looks and/or he plays on the team that I root for”, can such a pitcher exist?

And the answer: yes, but not if he’s too wild. Then the answer is no. Which, really, isn’t all that exciting I guess…but I think that if Arrieta becomes any good, that’s who we’re looking at: gets outs but gives up a lot of walks. And that’s okay. Or at least it can be.

I can't describe the way it feels...

by Andrew_G on Jul 26, 2010 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well...

My personal opinion is that using that phrase to describe somebody who’s walking people is wrong. Putting guys on base is what you’re trying to avoid as a pitcher. To me that phrase applies to somebody who’s throwing just enough balls to make the strikes that much more effective – like the people I mentioned.

Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck

by O'sFan21 on Jul 26, 2010 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

that seems right to me

but then are they really “wild”? It sounds like those types of pitchers especially the elite guys you mentioned like Pedro, aren’t wild at all: they’re doing it with purpose, intent, and control.

I can't describe the way it feels...

by Andrew_G on Jul 26, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah that's true too

When I start thinking about guys who are good who I would consider a little wild it starts becoming much smaller.

Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck

by O'sFan21 on Jul 26, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry

meant to add that I think it’s highly unlikely for a guy to have sustained success with a high walk rate.

Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck

by O'sFan21 on Jul 26, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

My Yankee-loving girlfriend

was kind enough to remind that Michael Kay’s quote was that “Burnett’s stuff is so ELECTRIC he can’t control it”. Which I have to agree really sells the whole thing.

I hate Michael Kay.

I can't describe the way it feels...

by Andrew_G on Jul 26, 2010 4:18 PM EDT reply actions  

At least you don't have to live in his town

I can’t avoid him – he’s on commercials here.

To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa

by James F on Jul 26, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was up there this weekend

saw Steve Cohen in the Waldorf (that was a lot of fun! Magic >>>>> Michael Kay), and caught the last half of Friday’s rain soaked affair with Kansas City (since my gf’s parents were watching it when I walked in)….and that was enough for me for a loooooooong time. I think I would rip out my tv and radio and throw it out of a high-riser if I had to deal with his commercials or his radio show.

I can't describe the way it feels...

by Andrew_G on Jul 26, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love our TV and radio guys. And I think of Carlos Zambrano (pre 2009) when I think of effectively wild.

Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.

by birdman on Jul 26, 2010 7:29 PM EDT reply actions  

that's probably the best example there is

Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck

by O'sFan21 on Jul 26, 2010 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think of Burnett's No-hitter

back in 2001 when I think of effectively wild. He walked nine guys. I also think of John Parrish. It seemed like he looked good against free swingers, but guys who knew what they were doing were able to force him to throw strikes. I think Ryan was successful because he could typically blow hitters away even when he was forced to groove a fastball.

by uneasy rider on Aug 5, 2010 8:48 AM EDT reply actions  

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