Rob Dibble and the female baseball fan.
by Stacey on Aug 12, 2010 4:10 PM EDT
in Commentary & Analysis
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PrintThose ladies right behind there, they haven't stopped talking the whole game. They have some conversation going on. There must be a sale tomorrow going on here or something....Their husbands are going "man, don't bring your wife next time."
I was just thinking, those women, there's a new series Real Housewives of D.C. that just came out. Maybe they're filming an episode?
Both of those quotes are by Nationals announcer Rob Dibble and transcribed by Dan Steinberg at D.C Sports Bog. I went back and forth on if I really wanted to write this. For one thing, it has nothing to do with the Orioles. For another, Steinberg already covered the issue accurately and with the appropriate amount of snark. And as Mike Prada wrote on SB Nation D.C., talking about Rob Dibble is exactly what Rob Dibble wants. Ultimately, though, I couldn't ignore it. The fact is that this is my life. I am a woman who is a baseball fan. No, wait. I'm more than that. I am a woman who is a baseball writer. I'm a woman who is a baseball writer who runs the best and most successful Orioles blog on the internet. I am recognized by both local and out-of-town sports media as a knowledgeable source on the Baltimore Orioles.
I am a woman who, if seated behind home plate at a Nationals game, would get circled by Rob Dibble and called out for gossiping about an upcoming sale while the men were trying to watch baseball.
This is certainly not the first time that I've wondered why Rob Dibble has a job. From what I can gather it is because he used to be good at throwing a baseball. That seems to be an irresponsible reason to allow someone to represent a team or television network, but it happens in broadcast booths everywhere, so I have learned to live with it. But this is the first time I've heard Rob Dibble say something that is not only stupid, but also offensive and potentially alienating to an entire demographic, one that I'd imagine the Washington Nationals might be interested in wooing to their young, attendance-challenged team. The Nats have actually done a very good job reaching out to a number of groups that might normally not feel welcome in the sports world, which makes it even more of a shame that Rob Dibble would say something that might indicate to female viewers that the baseball world is just another place they don't belong.
I am obviously a woman who is confident in my knowledge of baseball. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be writing this right now. But I wasn't always that way. I read Camden Chat for a year before I posted one comment. I learned a lot and often thought about participating, but held back because I didn't want to say anything that would make me look like a stupid girl. It's silly, really, especially because you can talk to anyone who has known me for a long time and discover there was never a time when I wasn't crazy about baseball and the Orioles. But I saw the confident way the guys voiced their opinions, how they were quick to disagree with each other, and I worried I wouldn't be able to keep up. In retrospect, of course I could have kept up. But I'd never really talked baseball with anyone other than my family and few friends who cared enough to listen to me. Everything I'd ever seen or heard about baseball in any type of media was presented by men. I never saw anything from SC or the community members here that would lead me to believe it would be any kind of issue, but there is always that fear of that one person, the Rob Dibble of the group, casting judgement and making assumptions based on my gender. And that fear kept me quiet.
Eventually I got over it, and my life is better for it. Writing about the Orioles and participating in the discussions both here and at other sports sites is one of the joys in my life. I was able to work through the idea that I couldn't hang in this culture and found that I was actually welcome. But imagine if, one of the first times I visited Camden Chat, SC had said the same thing in a game thread that Rob Dibble said on television last night. I would have felt unwanted, and I would have left for good. And if any female baseball fan heard Dibble's insensitive and thoughtless remarks last night and felt the same way, then shame on him.
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I try to be selective in throwing out accolades
Because when you praise everyone, you praise no one. But this is a fucking fantastic column. Thank you Stacey. .
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
It IS fantastic
…for a girl.
But seriously, great job Stacey.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Dibble is a complete jackass.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he was fired for saying that. It’s offensive and demeaning.
The other funny thing is that it’s not like baseball is a great and noble enterprise either. It’s a game and a sport that a lot of people like to watch, including me. But that doesn’t make it any more important than Real Housewives or American Idol or anything else.
Words fail me.
This is an amazing column. It should be picked up by SB Nation and put on their front page.
Everyone who agrees should rec above.
Thanks, Stacey, for such an insightful and to-the-point piece of writing. Rob Dibble can’t hold a candle to you, but we all already knew that.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
by zknower on Aug 12, 2010 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Thanks, zk
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
cant rec from my phone and my motherboard just shit the bed
But I just “in theory” rec’d this
"double rainbow...what does it MEAN?"
The Signing Bonus: We're back in business.
by danielreese05 on Aug 12, 2010 5:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Your post is well written and I agree with the premise, obvi
But none of this changes the fact that Dibble is hilariously entertaining in his buffoonery.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
I don't find him entertaining
I watch plenty of Nats games. Well, I watch a handful of complete Nats games, but if they switch over to them when the Orioles game ends or if the O’s are off, I watch them. More than once I’ve turned it off because I find him to be so hard to listen to.
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
Can we start an online petition....
to get him fired?
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
by NewYorkOriole on Aug 12, 2010 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
just send a letter to MASN
You do it here.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
It might just be me
But I find the obnoxious jackass side of Dibble that birdman and zk described to be pretty damn funny. He seems like a pompous dirtbag no doubt, but his use of “we” and “us” incessantly combined with his complete belief in his own misguided views are entertaining to watch.
"There's only one cure for what's wrong with all of us pitchers, and that's to take a year off. Then, after you've gone a year without throwing, quit altogether." -Jim Palmer
different strokes for different folks
that’s what makes the world go ’round. :)
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
no.
he’s not entertaining in the slightest. He’s a boor, in the truest sense of the word, and any possibility that I might adopt the Nats as a National League team has been trumped by an inability to listen to Dibble for more than a minute at a time.
The guy is a Grade A jackass and an embarrassment to MASN.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
You do an amazing job, Stacey
So many times I read your articles on here and I think to myself, ‘she put into words exactly what I was thinking, but didn’t know how to express’. You are a big reason that this IS one of the best Orioles blog on the Internet.
Dibble is an idiot jock.
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
I don't have anything to say
but don’t think that doesn’t mean I don’t wholeheartedly stand beside this.
It's a fight to the finish. That's a good place to stop.
Great post
However, it’s very depressing to read some of the comment under the Steinberg Post piece you linked to. Seems like there are plenty of people like Dibble around.
this is an awesome column
and as another female, baseball-loving person who makes a living writing about sports, i totally agree. i hate dibble. a lot.
but i just want to say that as a regular reader and, at least in the past, frequent commenter, there is a hierarchy on this blog and I don’t think it’s about gender. new commenters, young commenters, first-timers, they (we) often get vilified or made fun of or ganged up on, regardless of gender. Accidental slip-is, not funny jokes, whatever it is, it happens.
I know there’s a policy here against saying sexist things and it’s much appreciated but creating a space where lots of fans are comfortable isn’t just about making sure female fans don’t feel discriminated against.
maybe it’s just me, but I sort of feel like there’s some insider club here and I missed the invitation or something and it just got to feel like I was crashing someone else’s party. So yeah, i’m so impressed with stacey and how great the writing here is. but i’ve stopped commenting and it’s not because I’m a girl.
just throwing that out there. have at it.
by brooklynlovesorioles on Aug 12, 2010 5:14 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm not sure what it is that made you feel unwelcome, but i can't imagine it was intentional.
I think part of what makes this site great is that there is a pretty well established culture, but one that hopefully is open enough for those that want to integrate themselves into it. Most of the time, I feel like the new users that get picked on the most are the ones that just show up and treat the site like their own without regard for the practices and decorum that already exist. Stacey said she read CC for a year before commenting; I did the same. I can see how at times it seems like theres an ‘insider club,’ it can take a while to fully assimilate yourself. This probably isn’t a site for everyone, and theres been plenty of people here who got off to a rocky start. But as long as they showed an effort to understand what we’re about, hopefully no one’s been too harsh. Obviously though this isn’t my site; duck, stacey, zk: feel free to jump in correct me if anything i’ve said seems inaccurate.
I love this site
and pretty much everyone here, but I do cringe whenever the “stern disciplinarian” voice is used. Although I do remember getting on BSF’s case a while back, probably way more than was deserved. My bad, yo.
I forgive you.
It made me a better memeber of this blog.
Buck Showalter clearly isn't interested in having Anthony Rendon as a member of the Orioles.
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Aug 12, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Member.
Buck Showalter clearly isn't interested in having Anthony Rendon as a member of the Orioles.
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Aug 12, 2010 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh I could sort of see where she's coming from
Lots of people who aren’t familiar with things like the reply button or our standards for grammar/punctuation might feel a bit alienated by some of the reactions to first posts. I think most of them are in jest and not meant to be serious, but if people don’t have a sense of our type of banter I could see them being a little abrasive. Then there’s also all the inside jokes, some of which I still don’t get and I’ve been around and active for a while.
All that said, as you pointed out if you hang around for a while I think you catch on pretty quick and it’s a very welcoming atmosphere – even for assholes like me. I lurked for a few months before posting to figure out the dynamic a bit.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
totally
I lurked for a loooooong time. And obviously I continue to lurk. I don’t think my comment made it seem like it was intentional. I just thought this was as close to on-topic as I could get to bring it up. That’s all. I’m not going to come into the CC office (yes, I know there isn’t one) and shoot everyone.
But while we’re all feeling lovey dovey and inclusive I figured it couldn’t hurt to throw this out there.
by brooklynlovesorioles on Aug 12, 2010 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not going to come into the CC office (yes, I know there isn’t one) and shoot everyone.
Just avoid duck’s office. he’ll shoot back.
I'll miss. My daughter wouldn't ;)
"I might know a couple things that you don't know. 'Cause I've been young, but you ain't never been old." - Elvin Bishop
by duck on Aug 12, 2010 6:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
and make sure
TO GET OFF HIS LAWN!!!
"I do think the O’s have sucked balls this season. If that displeases you Luke, then oh well."-birdman
At night I let my dog out.
She’s trained to crap on his lawn not mine.
I’m now working on getting her to pee on his petunias.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Petunias are for northern elites
Sorry, wrong thread…
"I might know a couple things that you don't know. 'Cause I've been young, but you ain't never been old." - Elvin Bishop
I can see what she's saying
I don’t post much because sometimes I get that vibe, but I’ve always attributed it to never living near Baltimore (first KY now NC) so I don’t get to see the games and can only make it to a game a year if I’m lucky.
I also don’t know a whole lot about stats and only appreciate baseball on what seems to be an elementary level compared to a lot of people here.
That said, I love this site. I’ve been an everyday visitor for about four years. I only get half the jokes, but I still love it. I greatly appreciate that this site has high standards both for posting and for intelligent comments – it’s part of what keeps me coming back every day.
Stacy, ZK, and Duck you all do a great job and are much appreciated.
"I could no more abandon my Orioles than I could repudiate my family, or my native heath, or my own childhood—even though I know it is a devotion that can now bring only grief." - David Bentley Hart
by Gorilla Bird on Aug 12, 2010 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we are like any other specialty group
In that we all have a certain community knowledge base. That’s great for the feeling of comraderie we share, but it can make others feel unwelcome. However, alot of people can tell you that if you make it through the “hazing” period, we tend to accept most people with open arms (or keyboards or whatever). I remember you and you were def. a welcome addition to the site. Def. reconsider posting. It’d be fully welcome.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Thanks for speaking up
I feel terrible that you felt alienated to the point that you stopped contributing. I’m so sorry that happened. I was actually just thinking about you the other day. I saw that you sent in an entry for the team hate post and I wondered what had happened to you, as I always enjoyed having you around.
I want to say more on this but I’m on my phone and it’s tough. I
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
by Stacey on Aug 12, 2010 5:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i think kba summed it up pretty well above
the site is kind of its own thing. it’s constantly evolving.
the best metaphor for CC and similar blogs i’ve found is having your neighborhood bar where everyone watches the game. the more you hang out in the bar, the more people recognize you and the more your culture and the bar’s culture osmose into each other. but spend some time away and then stop back in, and you’re ready to throw darts like you used to, but the dartboard has been replaced with a jukebox (what a terrible analogy).
stacey, duck and I try to hammer the more unsavory elements who walk into the bar, but i think the other matrices of this place (the level of snark, the degree of off-topicness, the tolerance for “loud” arguments in the middle of gamethreads and/or open threads) are pretty much self-policed and constantly changing.
i know that there are a huge number of inside jokes here—so many that i don’t know half of them—but i don’t think that gets in my way of enjoying a gamethread.
I’m really glad you posted. I remember you posting in the past, and have always wondered where you went. If there’s stuff you think we can do to make the site more inclusive (without fundamentally changing the best aspects of it), I hope you’ll email me or stacey or duck directly and talk about it. (that goes for anyone on here. we welcome input, truly.) you’re not the only old-timer who seemed to fade away, and i’d hate to think we’re doing something that’s alienating some of our earliest fans.
all that said, the place will continue to shift incrementally as any beehive will. a certain level of that will always be beyond our control.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
What he said
"I might know a couple things that you don't know. 'Cause I've been young, but you ain't never been old." - Elvin Bishop
by duck on Aug 12, 2010 6:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that we/they're trying to keep this board
from turning into something like a Yahoo message board. It’s a defense mechanism. We the Camden Chatters demand quality and good grammar*! There have been multiple population* surges over the last few seasons, and with each one, some toolbox shows up and annoys the Wieters out of everyone.
I lurked for awhile myself, sometimes I still do, sometimes I’m off acting like I have a life, and sometimes I get on here and start inside jokes* that only I understand. Welcome!
Trade deadline update: Yankees acquire Alsace-Lorraine @OldHossRadbourn
Aw hell
If LB3 didn’t drive you away, nothing would have. (;-)
But if I can be serious for a minute, as someone who doesn’t live in the team’s local area (and is at work when most games are played anyway), it’s important to find a site that goes beyond gameday threads.
And that’s what SC & now you have built here. Quality writing, a knowledge of the game that goes beyond “What the fuck was Jones swinging at???”, a, shall we say, relaxed attitude (that may take some a while to get used to), and a willingness to call out cro-mags like Dibble when called for (going back to the discussion started by Dempsey’s “domestically violated” comments) are reasons why this place gets the recognition cited above.
Whatever it is you’re doing, keep it up!
"Fairy tales start 'once upon a time...'. Fishing stories start 'now this ain't no bullshit...'."
- Cap'n Phil Harris
It's even more annoying to have to cover this idiot every day on SB Nation DC
Now we usually just criticize his wardrobe.
You’re doing a hell of a job Stacey. My favorite baseball blog on SB Nation by far.
The artist formerly known as ledellforlife.
A big, fat, fuck yeah to this.
All of it.
As Stacey knows, there’s a reason that the handle I chose when I started posting on baseball blogs few years ago is gender-neutral.
Also, Rob Dibble is a talentless ass clown who’s career in professional broadcasting can not end soon enough.
"If you’re not in with the Orioles, then you can ply your trade somewhere else." - Buck Showalter
as a Federal Baseball member...
I appreciate the colorful language allowed on Camden Chat. I think this is my first post on your site but I have appreciated the full range of SB nation blogs and yours is one of the best. They are far better than yahoo message boards.
by NewJerseyAveSE on Aug 13, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If women can voice their opinions how can we stop them from voting?
Ugh, couldn’t stop myself from making such a bad joke. I didn’t realize Rob Dibble is this big of a jackass. Great column.
Cut him some slack...
His wife is in love with John Redcorn. I’d be bitter too.
Now Joe can't come within 500 feet of Mary. He also can't call her, or burn his name in gas on her lawn. I'm gonna let you in on a little secret, Joe is me. And Mary is a composite of 12 different women and a small independent film company all of whom couldn't deal with me because I'm too real.
by killertomato on Aug 12, 2010 6:52 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I wonder why I even do my job anymore
with guys like Dibble and my coworker (who sleeps at his desk when he even shows up) still employed. My coworker just got a transfer (to Baltimore, heh) with a friggin promotion.
With that, Dibble is the Worst Announcer In Sports. Worse than Dempsey, Buckarver, Morgan, and Hawk. Way to insult the growing half of the fanbase. Toolbucket.
Trade deadline update: Yankees acquire Alsace-Lorraine @OldHossRadbourn
Yea Dibble is definitely a clown
I’ve never entirely understood why they picked him for the Nats. I guess since it’s so long since they had a team they couldn’t find someone with any sort of relevance to DC baseball. Granted Palmer can be arrogant too but that has always struck me as funny whereas with Dibble I want to throw a shoe at him.
Yea Dibble is definitely a clown
I’ve never entirely understood why they picked him for the Nats. I guess since it’s so long since they had a team they couldn’t find someone with any sort of relevance to DC baseball. Granted Palmer can be arrogant too but that has always struck me as funny whereas with Dibble I want to throw a shoe at him.
Thanks for everything you do here Stacey
If Dibble wasn’t such a close-minded douchebag he might realize that his moronic comments do nothing but hurt the game of baseball. I’m glad you brought this up and that it has been brought up in other outlets as well. Maybe someone will realize that Dibble needs to be out of the baseball business all together.
"I know the save rule, believe me. But it doesn't carry much weight with me. I like the win rule a little bit better." - Buck Showalter
Totally agree.
Not only because I’m a girl, but I do often feel silly in situations other than sports conversation. It’s a dumb stereotype that women just want to talk about shopping and that new shoe sale at Macy’s. It’s unfortunate that it hasn’t simply disappeared when we had a woman almost smelling the position of POTUS, but it’s more unfortunate that a douche like Dibble has the audacity to say it on live TV.
I’m lucky that I haven’t encountered serious sexism directed towards me, but I hear it in conversation, in jokes etc. etc. Sexists can play the PC card and the easily offended card, but that’s just not true. At Caltech, my Dad’s alma mater, they didn’t start accepting women until 1970. Even today in many professional circles — especially science — it’s a men’s club.
I’m getting extremely off-topic here. Anyway, this was a wonderful post and you’ve articulated a lot of things I’ve held in very well. Thank you!
I'm back. YAY SUMMER!
Great Article
As a guy, and a (very) occasional poster here on Camden Chat, I will gladly admit that you know more than I will ever know about baseball, Stacey. And I’m happy to admit it. Without people (not necessarily women, but people) like you (and duck, zknower, Eat More Esskay, etc.) I wouldn’t be coming here multiple times a day when I should be working.
When it comes down to it, you stick with who knows what they’re talkign about, and that’s not Dibble. I’m happy to have people as knowledgeable as you be passionate about the Orioles.
That said, I gotta get back to shopping for purses for my girlfriend’s birthday. (Seriously.)
The Washington Wizards: providing career scoring nights for unknown opposing bench players since 2004.
Psh, guys...
always talking about shopping.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I love you all....
Just got back from the Ravens game…. got dumped on.
Im going to get a beer
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 13, 2010 1:31 AM EDT reply actions
One of the best pieces of advice I ever received ...
… was from my mom. She told me not to sweat the small stuff.
I can understand why this bugged you and you did a nice job of expressing yourself and sometimes we just have to vent to feel better. And I am of the opinion that it’s better that than keeping it bottled up. But in the big scheme of things, what Rob Dibble or any other announcer says means nothing. If Dibble is in fact the clown, jackass, loud mouth, idiot that folks here are saying, that’s even more reason to ignore what he says.
So, I’m glad you got that off your chest. I am also very appreciative of the fine job you do here. I seriously doubt I could do it. And I want to say that you should never let worry over what someone might say keep you from speaking your mind. In fact you have to speak your mind, as you represent the half of the human race us guys need to listen to. (Or so my wife tells me.)
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
Yeah, no
First of all, I wasn’t venting or getting something off my chest. Venting is just letting go with emotions and thoughts and whatever else. I sat down and thoughtfully wrote this with the intention of pointing out that Rob Dibble said something awful and offensive, and how people like him, whether they are clowns or not, influence others.
Second of all, misogyny isn’t “small stuff.” It is huge, huge stuff. I get so tired of people telling me that I need to just let stuff go. I don’t let injustices go. I will never, ever, keep my mouth shut because of the fact that opening it won’t change Rob Dibble or whoever else’s mind. Maybe by opening it I change someone else’s mind, or make someone else think twice about things. At the very least, I will never have to risk people thinking that my silence equals concurrence.
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
by Stacey on Aug 13, 2010 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I have been stalking around my office
basically trying to compose this exact reply without coming off like a jerk. Thanks for doing it for me.
“Othering” women or any other group is not a small thing, at it’s core, it’s dehumanization. You can bet your ass that if Dibble had circled some black people and opined they were talking about hip hop and fried chicken, nobody would be patronizing you about venting, or speaking your pretty little mind or how they have to be charmingly reminded by their wife that women are human beings first and women second.
Of course, if you are a woman, and you complain about it, you’re hysterical, because you are a woman. You cannot win.
Now Joe can't come within 500 feet of Mary. He also can't call her, or burn his name in gas on her lawn. I'm gonna let you in on a little secret, Joe is me. And Mary is a composite of 12 different women and a small independent film company all of whom couldn't deal with me because I'm too real.
by killertomato on Aug 13, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Not to pile on
and I admit to knowing absolutely nothing about the racial or cultural makeup of almost any of the posters on this blog, but generally it’s much easier to brush off “othering” (great term by the way) as minor or not a big deal if you’ve never been “othered.”
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Piling on doesn't bother me.
Part of my point to Stacy is that people should not give too much credence to what other people say.
As for thinking “othering” is a great term – guess we have to disagree on that. I usually find made up terms rather suspect.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
someone had to make up every term
and please spell my name correctly, it’s right there in every post.
I could claim it is the same reasoning at work that leads to terms like
“othering” – i.e. the short cutting everyone thinks is ok on net/twitter/texting communication. Afterall, it is one less letter to have to type in. Think of all the time saved.
But it’s not that. Just a mistake on my part.
How about I go with another popular trend – making up some “cool” knickname? Maybe S-Kay? Stay-Kool? Nope, that doesn’t work for me, as I happen to think that’s one of the dumbest things around. I’ll stick with Stacey and trying to get it right.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
it perfectly described what happened and what you dismissed as no big deal
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Othering
is not something I made up. It is a well researched and academically accepted sociological theory.
Try this for starters:
http://www.cwrl.utexas.edu/~ulrich/rww03/othering.htm
I’m not an expert on much, but I don’t talk sh!t on the internet. But thanks for condescending to me as well.
Camden Chat...far better than yahoo message boards. -NewJerseyAveSE Aug 13, 2010
by killertomato on Aug 20, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I learn something new everyday.
Today it’s this.
I had never heard the term before, but then existential philosophy was never an area of study for me. History, science, engineering and business are my degree’d disciplines. The closest I probably got to philosophy was comparitive religion. Did graduate work in sociology at Maryland, but that was in the Military Sociology department.
Not sure why you think I was being condescending. I could read into your remarks that you are very sensitive. (Which is fine. I’m just not the type who walks on eggshells.) Instead I would rather take away the fact that with your help I just expanded my vocabulary. I appreciate that and if you took my comments as being condescending, my apology. It was not my intent.
Final Thought for the Day: Men are like a fine wine. They start out as
grapes, and it's up to women to stomp the crap out of them until they
turn into something acceptable to have dinner with.
Dave Barry
Heh.
Not sure why you think I was being condescending. I could read into your remarks that you are very sensitive.
This makes me laugh.
Camden Chat...far better than yahoo message boards. -NewJerseyAveSE Aug 13, 2010
by killertomato on Aug 20, 2010 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I've now learned two new things.
I followed the link and read about Aphra Behn. As a history major, that was very interesting.
Final Thought for the Day: Men are like a fine wine. They start out as
grapes, and it's up to women to stomp the crap out of them until they
turn into something acceptable to have dinner with.
Dave Barry
I never said anyone was being hysterical.
As for this “othering” – isn’t that what you are doing by putting me in a box that says I think any woman who speaks her mind is being hysterical? Or the box that doesn’t think of women as human beings or has to be reminded of it? (BTW – did I say my wife is charming when she tells me I have to listen to what she says? That’s not the term that comes first to mind.)
I had a very simple point – that I believe there are more important things in the world than what one ex-jock baseball announcer says. That doesn’t mean you don’t express yourself. Only that after doing so you don’t let it overshadow what else there is to get interested in or be passionate about. I didn’t mean to belittle Stacey’s view. Just passing on some advice from one of the two people I admire most in the world that took me some additional years of learning to fully appreciate.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I'm sure that's great advice for most situations
but it just doesn’t fit this case. Just letting misogyny slide is how it persists.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
by O'sFan21 on Aug 17, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is what I just love about discussions like this.
How easily some people like to throw around labels and accusations and damn the exagerations.
The Dibble comments Stacey transcribed above can certainly be called sexist. But if you are going to dip into the misogyny barrel in an effort to take some sort of moral high ground, you should at least try to support and explain exactly how such comments qualify as misogynist. To qualify as misogynist , they would have to clearly exhibit hatred. Exactly where is that in Dibble’s statement?
Dibble showed he’s an idiot, or at least someone who isn’t smart enough to understand that his lame attempt at humor was likely to be considered offensive to female sports fans, or to women in general. It is a huge leap to now claim he hates women.
Dibble deserves getting called out for making stupid comments. Labaling him as a misogynist appears to be over the line.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
I think you’re using a literary definition of misogyny that doesn’t much apply to common conversation anymore. When people talk about comments like Rob Dibble’s and describe them as misogynistic, maybe they’re using the word in a technically incorrect manner, but everybody knows that they are talking about discrimination against women as opposed to actually hating women. I know that the dictionary definition of the word is hatred for women, but I don’t think it’s been used that way for quite a while.
The bottom line is that his comments weren’t just stupid, but sexist, belittling, and “othering” (since I know you liked that word too).
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I am definately guilty of believing that part of being articulate is using language correctly.
We do not lack for terms to describe Dibble’s action. And since we do not, why apply a term that is not accurate? The effect of doing so leads to a devaluation of the term and a debasement of the language.
I tried posting a followup comment either to you or to Stacey’s post above where she uses the term, but we were having network problems. What I was going to say was that upon reflection I would change my sentence about ignoring Dibble.
What I meant to say was I don’t think he’s worth letting it bother anyone further.
I can agree that ignoring stupid comments completely can, at the very least prevent someone from realizing they are in the wrong.
But equating Dibble’s comments with misogyny seems to be a gross overstatement. Being stupid, clueless, insensitive or even sexist (all counts that appear to apply to Dibble) does not automatically equate to hate. Equating Dibble’s action to misogyny runs the risk of being viewed like the boy who cried wolf. At some point a reasonable person will stop listening to people who over reach with their claims.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
There's a difference between
using language incorrectly and using language in the way that it’s used in current discourse.
I certainly agree that nobody should let Rob Dibble jackass comments upset them, because he is a jackass. But you should absolutely still call him out when he says things that are offensive.
Again you’re talking about the book definition of misogyny that I don’t think applies to everyday conversation in the modern world. People are called misogynists all the time without anybody thinking that they actually HATE women.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I agree that it happens as you say.
I disagree that it occuring on a common basis makes it ok.
But then I am not about to stem the tide of improper usage. And if I were to try, decimate ranks way higher on my list than misogyny.
Clarence, It's better to have a gun and not need it, then need a gun and not have it.
For the record
I never said Rob Dibble was a misogynist. I said his comments were misogynistic. And I stand by it. I think that treating women as less than men demonstrates dislike, even if the person making the comments doesn’t think so.
Well done Stacey
"Dodger fans aren’t happy when foul balls get into their section, because it interferes with their playing with the beachball"- Mike Krukow
Fantastic post.
You make me feel a bit ashamed of the the standards we keep in game threads at Over The Monster.
USG
Shame: it's what I do
Thanks for the kind words. FWIW I’ve read a handful of your game threads in my day and I’ve never noticed anything particularly offensive. That’s more than I can say for some other places I’ve visited. OTM is one of the most well written baseball sites on SBN, in my opinion. If only it weren’t about the Red Sox I could really enjoy it ;)
Oh and now we’re warming up Uehara. He’ll die. He will actually DIE if he pitches in this heat. -KenDixonFanClub
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