Thursday Bird Droppings
by duck on Sep 16, 2010 7:01 AM EDT
in Open Threads
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PrintRecaps of last night's game can be found at Orioles.com, The Sun, Toronto Star, and MASNsports (with post-game Buck).
Britt's Bird Watch: Bell on not sliding
"This isn't the first time Bell hasn't slid, and he said he didn't receive any specific reprimand from manager Buck Showalter. But in the future, when in doubt, he will get down. "Oh, I'll be sliding now," Bell said."
Orioles Insider: Breaking down the Orioles' 2011 schedule; it's brutal, folks
"Another painful quirk of the 2011 schedule: Five, three-city road trips. Ouch. The Orioles had three this season. Three of those 2011 three-city trips come after Aug. 15. And they have an inhumane trek to end the first half: Go to Atlanta for three; fly to Texas for three, and then fly all the way back east to Boston for four. All without an off day." That's ridiculous.
Yeardley Love: Notre Dame Prep holds Orioles Night to raise money for Yeardley Love field - baltimoresun.com
"Notre Dame Preparatory School is holding Orioles Night at Camden Yards on Oct. 1 to raise money to build a turf field at the school in honor of alumna Yeardley Love, who was killed last spring at the University of Virginia. Love played lacrosse at both Notre Dame and Virginia. Tickets are $15 and must be purchased in advance in order for proceeds to benefit the Yeardley Reynolds Love Field. Go to notredameprep.com for orders."
Orioles Insider: Which Orioles starter has impressed you the most under Showalter?
"The Orioles are now 26-15 under Buck Showalter. More impressive, their rotation is an incredible 19-11 with a 2.93 ERA in those 41 starts."
Orioles Insider: Lugo to be further examined
"Orioles infielder Julio Lugo will see an ear-nose-and-throat specialist on Friday in hopes of finding out exactly what is causing the headaches that have kept him off the field this week. He won’t play again until he gets further medical clearance."
As Orioles shape up, blogger falls behind | The Daily Times
"Earlier in the season, I interviewed Salisbury native (and current Washington resident) Mike Laws about theoriolesplan. blogspot.com, his online journal in which he pledged to exercise after every Orioles miscue and walk 4.5 miles from his home to work after every loss. Many months and miles later, I caught up with Mike to see how he's been doing."
Orioles Notebook: Team '50-50' on Arrieta - Carroll County Times: Orioles
"The Orioles’ decision on what to do with Jake Arrieta is going to wait at least a couple more days. Baltimore manager Buck Showalter said Wednesday that the team will consider a few factors before deciding whether the rookie right-hander will pitch again this season."
Orioles Buzz - Best Around Orioles Park
Yahoo! is teaming up with MLB.com to provide a feature on teams' official websites called "Best around the Ballparks". In this case, of course, we're talking about the "Best Around Oriole Park". Yahoo! and Orioles.com have teamed up to give their top five restaurants, bars, places to park, and attractions close to the Yard."
Major League Deals in Florida - Bond Buyer Article
"Sarasota and two counties on Florida’s southwest coast plan to take advantage of federally subsidized economic recovery zone and Build America Bonds when they issue more than $100 million of debt for the spring-training facilities of two Major League Baseball teams." This includes the renovations in Sarasota to the O's minor league complex.
School of Roch: Showalter time
"Tonight's game was completed in 1 hour, 55 minutes. The anthems took longer. The Orioles hadn't played a nine-inning game in under two hours since May 25, 2005 vs. Seattle. That game also lasted 1:55."
"Re-awarding" the MVP awards may be the dumbest thing ever | HardballTalk
Yeah, yeah it would be. OK, maybe not the dumbest idea ever. Crystal Pepsi was probably dumber. And lawn darts. Who thought that would end well?
Gays and lesbians want kiss cam parity - STL Today
So, between three and eight percent of Kiss Cam shots should be same-sex. That's one in 20, roughly. I don't think the Republic will falter.
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Lawn darts were a great way to weed out society
If to survived playing lawn darts, you were likely able to contribute to society in some way.
by GeoffreyA on Sep 16, 2010 8:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
SP has been amazing
I didn’t know the numbers but that is incedible after it seemed like a bunch of guys who weren’t going to live up to thei rpotential…all of a sudden the O’s have a nice rotation
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
that would be 92-93 wins
if he was here all year…in theory
Any task BIG or small, Do it well or not at all
by Rickfansince76 on Sep 16, 2010 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
.634 is acually more like 102 wins
You can't just walk over us. -Brian Matusz
by Stacey on Sep 16, 2010 9:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
oh come on
you know exactly what 20% off a pair of $545 pair of Jimmy Choos is
signed
not rob dibble
in theory...in reality, no way
teams never are as good as look during a hot stretch
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
So 25% of the season is a stretch?
by GeoffreyA on Sep 16, 2010 9:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I know he catches a lot of flak here
But I hope the Os go after Butler this offseason in the trade market. KC has homer coming and should make him available for a decent price. What would you be willing to give up for him?
by GeoffreyA on Sep 16, 2010 8:56 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Brad Bergesen, maybe?
Ohhhh, the irony!
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
by PBR me ASAP! on Sep 16, 2010 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
He may catch flak for destroying our team
but I think most people on this site really like him as a player.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Showalter for Manager of the Year!
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
WTF?
Dear duck,
Crystal Pepsi a bad idea? You are completely clueless. Next you are going to tell me Milli Vanilli lip synced. Leave the 90’s pop culture to someone who wasn’t middle aged at the time.
Signed,
PO’ed
P.S. Lawn darts don’t kill people, ninjas with throwing stars kill people.
by Philly O's on Sep 16, 2010 9:04 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I posited this the other night
and it got little traction, but now I suppose the answer would be different:
what do you all think Brad Bergesen’s value would be on the winter trade market?
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
I don't think his value would be that high
Maybe a throw-in. Like Wiggington, Bergesen, and a prospect for Butler maybe?
by GeoffreyA on Sep 16, 2010 9:22 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I would think not much
He has been pitching well lately, but he is still 7-10 with a 5.03 ERA. And if we put him on the trading block we are essentially saying “We have evaluated all of our SP prospects and decided that this guy is the worst of them… so what’ll you give me for him.”
It might well be that we end up trading him, if we decide that there won’t be room in the rotation for him, but I wouldn’t expect anything better than a low to mid-level prospect… if we’re lucky.
Agreed. Bergy's value isn't high enough
So if one of the arms being grown were to be traded for a first baseman, which would it be? Matusz has the most value. Would you give up Tillman or Arrieta plus a AA pitcher for Fielder or Gonzalez? I think it is time.
I also think if they are going to keep Bell at 3B and wait on his bat to develop, they need a SS that can hit a little better. Perhaps by trading Pie for a good SS? We seem to have an excess of CF types.
Let's trade Jones before we do that.
Not only is he less valuable for our team than Pie, but his value may never be higher, which is sad to say.
The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST
by the fix is in on Sep 16, 2010 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't disagree with this enough
and also trading for Gonzalez or Fielder is stuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuupid. I’d rather hold a piece of sheet metal over my head while ducking under the tallest tree in the yard to shield myself from a thunderstorm.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
You don't think the Orioles need a 1st baseman?
Granted Fielder or Gonzalez would need to be signed long term, but we don’t have a cleanup hitter (no offense to Scott). Plus, I don’t see us holding onto all the starters. Grow the arm only works if you also buy the bats.
But neither of them would sign an extension
Go after them once they hit free agency maybe, but theres no way this team needs or can afford a one year rental.
why would the Royals trade away one of their
only really good players?
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
The same reason...
the Brewers are giving us Prince Fielder for Julio Lugo’s sinusitis and a Buck Showalter t-shirt – this is the internet.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 16, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey... why reply to me?
I was just doing my usual repost something a third time after a double-post, lol.
But yeah, I’d probably take the Lugo deal if it came down to it.
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 16, 2010 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I know what you were doing
and I like it. I’m just too lazy to pick the middle or the first guy. I’m like a bear – I’ll just go after whoever is closest.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
Because they have a top guy coming behind him.
In case no one noticed, KC had 3 of the best BA minor prospects for the year position wise. Catcher, 3rd base and 1st base. Hosmer will be ready soon so why not move butler for value?
by GeoffreyA on Sep 16, 2010 1:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that's why Eli Whitney invented the Designated Hitter
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
sounds terrible
junipery and cottony. Blegh.
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
Me and my friends had this discussion a few months ago
About how funny it is that no one remembers anything from high school/middle school history class but if you whip out what Eli Whitney did, 9 out of 10 people say COTTON GIN!
So random….
Maybe he just has one of those names. Funny you brought it up.
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 16, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
So we trade Scott instead of wiggington
Point is, we get a legit 1b. He’s eligible for arb next year. Below is a quote from BA about hosmer.
" In fact, Hosmer might not need more than half a season in the minors next season before he’s ready to make his big league debut at 21—the same age at which Royals first-base incumbent Billy Butler debuted in ’07."
by GeoffreyA on Sep 16, 2010 1:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
why would the royals trade billy butler for luke scott?
trading older and laterally is no way to go through life, son.
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
As I mentioned above
The Royals are much cheaper than we are based on past payrolls. Butler is arb eligible after 2011 where one would figure he would get a substantial raise. Having a replacement in place and being able to get good return value may be what they are looking for at the end of teh day. I’m not saying they WILL, I’m simply saying it’s something worth looking into.
Now will they? Doubtful but it certainly doesn’t hurt to put out a feeler. And this being a blog, I would assume this is the appropriate place to mention it to other fans and see what they thought. As far as what we would have to pay, who knows. You brought up Bergy and I think packaging him with some veteran talent might be enough to get them interested. I wouldn’t want to pay anything beyond Arrieta on the prospect tree pitching wise though.
but Luke costs more than Butler
and if we’re talking about Bergesen plus for Butler…I dunno. The Royals have been dumb, but they’ve been dumb in the mode of overvaluing old veterans, not in undervaluing their own young studs.
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
I love how everyone seems to think we need a cleanup hitter.
Luke Scott ops .895.
Prince Fielder ops .895.
Scott may be older but he is built like a thoroughbred while Fielder is built like a tub of jello. I’ll keep Luke Scott thank you.
The stache is back!
by Knubles and Bits on Sep 16, 2010 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Let's be fair
Luke Scott is unlikely to repeat the performance, and Fielder is likely to repeat it for a couple years at least. And anyway, this isn’t about finding a clean-up hitter, it’s about finding someone who isn’t Ty Wigginton to play first base and bat third every single day while making a billion outs….or, if you want Scott to play first, finding a DH who again, isn’t Ty Wigginton.
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
My main point is that I don't want Prince Fielder anywhere near
this team. And I have faith that Luke will put up similar numbers for the next two years.
The stache is back!
by Knubles and Bits on Sep 16, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
perfectly fair enough
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
he very may well put up those numbers the next two years
but then he’s a free agent. We should trade him while his value is at a peak.
I've been playing baseball since I was six years old, so that's 40 years I've been on a baseball field and around a baseball field, and so our opinions are formulated through facts, not fiction, not their little chat room jargon.
If the alternative is Prince Fielder
I’ll pass. If we could somehow get Billy Butler or A-Gon then by all means trade Scott.
The stache is back!
by Knubles and Bits on Sep 16, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Luke Scott is unlikely to repeat the performance
There is no basis for this statement. Past performances are not always indicative of future results. Luke has had one of his less-streaky season this year, and there has been stuff written about how he’s benefited from playing nearly every day and how he’s learned more about batting.
You can’t just point to stats and say, “he will regress to his mean.” Sometimes players actually improve for good.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
okay, but there's also
no basis for claiming that he hasn’t peaked. You can’t just point to a story about playing time and say, “this is his new mean.” I’ve been burned by that too many times personally.
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
no argument.
i’m just saying we don’t know.
it’s reasonable to say “stick with luke” when fielder is going to be, at best, a one-year rental.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I agree
I love Luke, and I’m stoically against trading for Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez. The notion of trading him should still be entertained, though. Sell high and all that.
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
You can’t just point to stats and say, "he will regress to his mean." Sometimes players actually improve for good.
You can look at age though. Sometimes players actually improve for good when they’re young. With Luke, he’s at his peak age (if anything, a little past it). I can see him sustaining this performance for another year but that’s about it.
I've been playing baseball since I was six years old, so that's 40 years I've been on a baseball field and around a baseball field, and so our opinions are formulated through facts, not fiction, not their little chat room jargon.
sure you can look at age
but i don’t think that’s as relevant in this case. corner positions are the most durable, particuarly 1B/DH. Hello? Ortiz? Thomas? You think Luke is going to be washed up at 33?
He has only been in the league for six years. His numbers have increased pretty steadily the whole time, with a slight bump downward when he adjusted to AL pitching.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
corner positions are the most durable, particuarly 1B/DH. Hello? Ortiz? Thomas
Actually, those guys typically fall under the “old players skills” category and they tend to drop off a cliff fast. There are exceptions though. Thomas being one. Thome being another.
In any case, guys taking a dramatic leap forward in their early 30s is rare. For every Melvin Mora and Luis Gonzalez, there are a ton of guys who hit their early 30s and continue their level of production or decline.
I've been playing baseball since I was six years old, so that's 40 years I've been on a baseball field and around a baseball field, and so our opinions are formulated through facts, not fiction, not their little chat room jargon.
guys making it to the majors at 27 and sticking are also rare.
i think you have to take his adjustment time into account and acknowledge that you wouldn’t be surprised to see a younger player still improving in his 6th year in the majors, 2 years after changing leagues.
from a body standpoint maybe he’s hitting his peak? but again, you have no idea. that’s basing entirely on mean stats instead of looking at an individual person. luke is someone who seems to take care of his body better than most.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
you wouldn’t be surprised to see a younger player still improving in his 6th year in the majors, 2 years after changing leagues.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the player has a track records which suggest upside. But, regardless of experience or what age they entered the league, guys in the start to decline after their early thirties. It’s an established trend. But you’re saying you can’t apply to a general trend to a person, which I wouldn’t quite say. I would rather you would want to apply a general trend composed of players who fit the characteristics of the person who want to predict. And based on that, I’m fairly certain (there are no absolutes, I would rather talk in terms probabilities) that A) Luke is in his peak right now, and B) it won’t more than a couple of years.
I've been playing baseball since I was six years old, so that's 40 years I've been on a baseball field and around a baseball field, and so our opinions are formulated through facts, not fiction, not their little chat room jargon.
I'd have to get pretty damn good odds to take Luke over Prince next year though...
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I don't really believe in signing or trading for Gonzalez or Fielder.
But as a general statement, I believe that if we needed to make a trade, the Orioles would be wise to keep Pie as opposed to Jones. I believe that by themselves, Jones would have more value on the trade market. I also believe that Felix Pie is the more valuable outfielder.
The stock market will never recover, our armies will never again be #1, and our children will drink filthy water for the rest of their lives - HST
by the fix is in on Sep 16, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's leave defense aside for a minute
Adam Jones is younger than Felix Pie. Adam Jones is outslugging and getting on base more than Felix Pie on the season. Adam Jones doesn’t seem to be as britle as Felix Pie. Adam Jones has also shown remarkable improvement at the plate in the second half of the year, while Pie (who is full of potential, yes) has not, or at least not nearly to the same degree.
So, what I’m saying is that I think Adam Jones is very obviously the more valuable bat.
As for defense, we don’t have any particularly good ways to quantitatively measure who is better (ignoring the positional differences), but I’ll entertain that Pie is a better defender than Jones. I’m not convinced of that, but I’ll certainly entertain it. Is it so much better as to make up for the vast gap in batting talent? I’d argue no. It’s a big gap.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
They both suck at defense right now.
But Jones is leaps and bounds ahead of Pie in terms of hitting. Jones is potentially a 30-35 hr guy. Yea his plate discipline isn’t great, but that can be taught a lot easier than a guy can bulk up to hit that many homeruns. When he learns to stop chasing pitches out of the zone (which he has gotten better at lately) pitchers will be forced to give him better pitches to hit or walk him.
The stache is back!
by Knubles and Bits on Sep 16, 2010 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Wait...
So they are using the tragic death of an alum to get a new turf field?
no, that can’t be right…
They must be memorializing a loved one with a permanent reminder of the dangerous capacity of misogynistic violence.
I'm sure that's it.
"People ask, 'Why Baltimore?', and I’m like, 'Why not? What am I missing?'" - Buck Showalter
My sister went to NDP and hated it. She’s told me stories of girls’ parents dropping off brand new cars for them on their 16th birthdays. So yeah…is it a nice gesture to name the stadium after her? Sure. Is it also a cynical cash grab? Mmmprobably.
"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson
by Brotz13 on Sep 16, 2010 9:47 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing.
"'And worse I may be yet. The worst is not so long as we can say 'This is the worst.'"
Bergy
Reminded me of Scott MacGregor, who specialized in under 2 hour games. I was at a meeting and I tuned in to listen to the game at 9:11pm. I could not believe it was over already.
Re starting pitching, I don’t see how we can trade away Matusz, Tillman, Arrieta or one of the other good youngsters. We need a 5th starter to replace Millwood. We only have one arguably major league ready pitcher (Britton) in the farm system. So, If we have to replace Milwood plus one, we need Britton plus one, which we don’t have.
The six we have to choose from are
Guthrie, Matusz, Arrieta, Bergesen, Tillman, and Britton.
I, personally, don’t think we’ll move any of them in the winter. I think we’ll start next season with Britton in AAA and the other 5 as the starting rotation, or possibly adding a veteran and having Tillman start at AAA just to mess with him a little longer.
After that, how we play until the end of July will determine what happens to the rotation. If someone’s arm falls off, or regresses to pre-Buck suckiness, then Britton (and/or Tillman) comes up to replace him. If the team kicks ass, and it’s July and we are in contention, maybe we move Britton for a bat under team control for more than the stretch (I don’t think we’d give him up for a loaner). If the pitchers are ok, but we aren’t in contention, then maybe we move Bergesen (if he is having a good year) to a contender who needs pitching for a prospect.
i agree
I like the depth. I am just curious if they sign someone, which it seems tillman is the odd man out. I really think tillman needs to start in the rotation next year but that wouldn’t mean I would take Tillman over say Cliff Lee (work with me here).
uh...
uh?
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
anyway
I think Bergesen is the odd man out. He is the least likely to be valuable to the Orioles in the long run, and his performance is going to fluctuate from start to start too much as well.
But, yes, I’d rather have the fever than Cliff Lee.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
in the long wrong, yeah
but starting the season next year, no – in terms of keeping one or the other at AAA to start the year.
I think Tillman has a pretty good chance
to be better than bergesen next year.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
i agree
but as of now I just haven’t seen it yet so I would have to go into the season with what has worked. Bergy has been more consistent (even the first half where he sucked – he consistently sucked. Tillman you never know? Hell Till man gets what 3 more starts? a lot can change but if the season ended today and I had to choose between Bergy and Tillman it would have to be Bergy.
So there's a thread over on OH about Jeter's play...
… in which he pretended he was hit by a pitch that actually went off his bat, complete with wincing, shaking his arm, and hopping around in pain. The OP asks whether this kind of play is acceptable. Surprisingly (to me), most of the people think it’s just great—that it’s part of the game.
Honestly, I think it’s totally disgraceful, and I’d prefer the Orioles lose a game than win that way. If the umpire, without encouragement, makes the wrong call, so be it. That’s an accepted custom/rule. But to go to such lengths to fool the umpire crosses the line and is dishonorable even by baseball’s loose standards.
The sport where play-acting has likely taken the deepest hold is soccer, where players frequently writhe around in pain despite never having been touched. I don’t know of anyone who thinks that’s a positive part of the game. If anything, people say the amount of it threatens to ruin the sport and turn off a lot of potential fans.
Am I totally off-base here?
by Bad Horse on Sep 16, 2010 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I have this debate with people about soccer all the time
In my opinion, there is a major difference between diving when theres minimal contact and going down to draw attention to a legitimate foul when its less advantageous to try to stay on your feet and continue the play. The former is inexcusable and one of my least favorite parts about soccer (which i probably love more than baseball); the latter is much more defensible. The other team broke the rules and I see nothing wrong with electing to take the foul even if you could potentially stay on your feet.
Jeter’s play clearly falls on in the first category. If the ball just barely glanced off him and he chose to alert the umpire to the fact, its his right to do so per the rules. Totally fabricating a situation to gain an advantage, however, is unacceptable in any sport.
I think I agree.
That’s an important distinction.
I’m not as disturbed by outfielders holding up the glove after trapping a fly ball, even though it seems just as bad. Maybe because that’s so common umpires know to disregard it, so you’re really not gaining any advantage, and likely know that. Still, I don’t like that.
Jeter’s play certainly crossed the line, in that it opens up a whole new area of deception. It was really pretty sad to watch.
replays showed the ball hit his bat, not him
he confessed he was play-acting
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Thats my point
If it just barely hit him, that’d be in much more of a grey area. But since he was clearly faking it, thats indefensible.
The Italian national team begins every practice with diving exercises
The leave-your-feet-if-touched-by-an-opponent-in-the-zone (and often elsewhere) makes the sport almost unwatchable at times. That and the lying-on-the-gound-writhing-in-pretend-agony thing. Yep, a real “continuous action” sport, all right.
I really wish refs got, along with the yellow and red cars, a gold Oscar card to be waved at the shameless divers and fake-writhing breath catchers.
But wait — it isn’t even good acting.
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
I saw the postgame interview with Jeter
He was asked, “Did the ball hit you or the bat?” and he said, “The bat. But the ump told me to go to first base, what am I gonig to do tell him no?” That part I agree with.
Then they asked him, “You shook your hand like it hurt, was that from the vibration, or was it acting?” and he said, “vibration….and acting” and grinned. It annoyed me.
But at least the ump made the call, unlike when Jason Varitek ran to first on an inside pitch that never got near him and THEN the ump said he was hit.
You can't just walk over us. -Brian Matusz
The ump made the call
AFTER Cap’n Jetes bounced around like a wuss. There’s no way he isn’t awarded the base if Jeter doesn’t look like he just broke his hand.
But: I don’t really care about this. It does not affect my opinion of the most storied 86 OPS+ of all time.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
It was annoying because the umps
huddled up for a couple of minutes and none of them had the cajones to stand up and say, “The ball sounded like it hit bone or bat and ended up at shortstop, either Jeter’s arm is in 9 pieces or he’s out. And look, he stopped wincing and rubbing it and is standing on first base with a dumbass grin on his face.”
It is funny to watch Joe Maddon trying to get tossed, though. He’s not very good at it. He basically stands there and talks, not particulary loud or disrespectfully, and hopes the umpire gets tired of standing around. One time I saw him argue a call for 8 full minutes, and when the ump wouldn’t toss him, instead of kicking dirt or throwing bases around, he politely turned around and went back to the dugout. He needs to take lessons from Earl or Bobby Cox, or expand his vocabulary to include a few particular words to speed the process along.
Has anyone seen the video on MLB.com
about Jeff Maier’s catch? It’s a whole 3 minute documentary that just fawns all over the Yankees. Ugh. Jeter says ’that’s just part of the magic of Yankee stadium’ and then does his stupid smile. Um, what?
Wow…just…wow.
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
by NewYorkOriole on Sep 16, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember when Albert Belle got hit by a pitch
and refused to go to first and then hit a homerun. That was awesome.
The stache is back!
by Knubles and Bits on Sep 16, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Albert Belle = real man
Derek Jeter = word I don’t use because it’s offensive to the ladies
You can't just walk over us. -Brian Matusz
shoe-sale-enthuisiast?
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
"Derek Jeter"
is actually 2 words I don’t use because it’d be offensive to everyone. I’m mean, but i’m not mean enough to call somone a “Derek Jeter”. That’d be messed up.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Calling someone a Jeter
is one of the worst things you can say to a person.
by kba26 on Sep 16, 2010 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
that was awesome. doesn't mean albert belle is awesome. but that was awesome
He got a hit too.
I've been playing baseball since I was six years old, so that's 40 years I've been on a baseball field and around a baseball field, and so our opinions are formulated through facts, not fiction, not their little chat room jargon.
Albert Belle awesomely drove in runs for us at critical times, usually so we could lose games 11-7 instead of 11-3. I hope he was (is) an awesome human being, ’cause he was an awesome load in the club pants while he was here.
‘Course, he wasn’t the only useless ballast we acquired…
"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." Churchill,1942-- a rebuilding year.
That's not exactly what happened.
He had already hit 3 HRs in the game (as well as a single and a walk) and tried to refuse going to first, but they eventually made him. Cal got a walk off single that day.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Yea I typed my thoughts wrong.
The stache is back!
by Knubles and Bits on Sep 16, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Ray Miller came out and talked him into going to first and then got ejected.
The stache is back!
by Knubles and Bits on Sep 16, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
What a fucking absurd game though!
4-4, 3 hrs, a BB, and a HBP. Rough night for Sir Sidney…
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Albert was a beast.
The stache is back!
by Knubles and Bits on Sep 16, 2010 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Was that the back to the future game?
I'm hurt dog! Don't ask if me if I'm alright, hell naw! We said dominate and we not doing it! I put my heart into this s***, let's go man! - Ed Reed
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Sep 16, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea.
Crazy colored black and silver hats and uniforms, 7-6 win in extra innings over the Angels.
"Give us 10 points and the game is over...And they didn't score on us. Make sure you quote that. They didn't score on our defense."
"Ray Lewis has lost a step? I don't think so, Ray Lewis is still the best linebacker in football."-JH
by organizedchaos52 on Sep 16, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I was at that
I’ve got the silver hat they gave away to prove it.
I'm hurt dog! Don't ask if me if I'm alright, hell naw! We said dominate and we not doing it! I put my heart into this s***, let's go man! - Ed Reed
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Sep 16, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I was as well.
I had taken my own Os hat and gotten the one they gave away. Every time Belle came up to hit, I’d switch my hat. Then, he’d hit a HR. I was a very happy little boy, thinking I was causing Belle to hit those HRs.
"Give us 10 points and the game is over...And they didn't score on us. Make sure you quote that. They didn't score on our defense."
"Ray Lewis has lost a step? I don't think so, Ray Lewis is still the best linebacker in football."-JH
by organizedchaos52 on Sep 16, 2010 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
How is Kiss Cam supposed to know that two dudes sitting next to each other are gay?
I kind of hope that gays will push hard for this. The chaos that will ensue when kiss cam zooms in on two random dudes sitting next to each other at a game will be incredible. Go to a game with your buddy and have 20,000 people think you’re gay and want you to kiss him.
They should hire Jenny Jones as a consultant. She knows how fun it is to make large crowds of people think that a straight person is gay.
"'And worse I may be yet. The worst is not so long as we can say 'This is the worst.'"
Which leads to a point my girlfriend just made...
Is a huge crowd at a baseball game going to respond to PDA from a same-sex couple in the way that gays and lesbians would hope?
I don’t think there’s going to be as much cheering for that one as some would want there to be.
"'And worse I may be yet. The worst is not so long as we can say 'This is the worst.'"
Generally...
the stadium cameras will scan the crowd during the first 5 innings and look for people being affectionate with eachother, so I imagine that they would need to see some PDA to ID people as potential “Kiss Cam” victims.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 16, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
like, how does the Kiss Cam know that my sister is not my wife? I don’t know, but I’m glad they do!
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
I've seen that...
where the poor kids are like “we’re siblings!”
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 16, 2010 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I've often wondered this as well.
In fact, if I’m ever at OPACY with my sister, which is generally once a season, that’s what runs through my head as soon as the Kiss Cam comes on.
A couple of months ago we theorized that some guy maybe slips the usher a five or a ten to make sure the camera ends up on him and his date, and maybe this plays out multiple times in the stadium in the course of an evening. I don’t know if this actually happens, but I can say that I wouldn’t be above trying it.
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 16, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I usually make sure that I go
for beer or a soft pretzel when it comes on, honestly.I hate the kiss cam.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
A few months back I was there and not sober
and the kiss cam focuses on this guy and girl in front of me, but they don’t do anything. So I drunkenly start tapping them on the shoulder telling them to kiss/make out. They reacted SUPER awkwardly, so either it was a first date or they were siblings. Whatever. haha
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
That happened on Modern Family..
What up?
by snakethejake on Sep 16, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
That happen one tiem at a Caps
We got free tickets from the Caps to enocurage to buy season tix (this was before Caps tickets were a hot item.) They did the kiss cam, and it was a dude and a girl, they don’t kiss, they come back to the couple and he mouths that’s my sister, the Verizon Center started laughing.
I'm hurt dog! Don't ask if me if I'm alright, hell naw! We said dominate and we not doing it! I put my heart into this s***, let's go man! - Ed Reed
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Sep 16, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone watch
“The League”
Im pretty pumped up for Season 2 to start tonight.
I have ONE fantasy football team this season and I must spend like 3 hours a day tweaking/thinking/just staring at it.
Im totally obsessed.
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 16, 2010 11:38 AM EDT reply actions
hmmm
for a flex – steve breaston or clinton portis? also could throw in eddie royal
heard a lot about the show. I think I am going to start to watch it. tonight you say… Do I need to watch season 1? Or am I going to pick up now?
Def not Eddie Royal
Jabar Gaffney will probably get targeted alot more this week.
The show is pretty off-color but I find it hysterical.
I would go with Portis and just hope he scores. When in doubt throw a feature RB in your flex.
Im really torn between Brady vs. the Jets and Vick vs. the Lions.
Also for my flex Im torn between Benson vs. the Ravens and LT vs. the Pats.
Ive probably swapped them out like 9 times.
I suckered a guy into trading me DeAngelo Williams for Desean Jackson yesterday… I literally took myself out for drinks to celebrate. LMAO
You probably dont have to watch season 1… its just off the cuff humor. Tonight is the first Season 2 show and they’ll do their draft in VEGAS where apparently they run into Ochocinco who joins them… lol
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 16, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Ummm
I say Brady. If you watched the Bengals-Pats and saw Brady hitting all his option, and you watched Jets-Ravens and saw Flacco picking on Cro and Wilson….that could get ugly. There’s also the complete lack of offense from the Jets, which should put the ball in Brady’s hands a lot. Although Shaun Hill is starting for the Lions, so I could imagine Vick having the ball a lot.
Judging from the past, Benson definitely gets the start. I’m a Ravens fan though, and don’t expect Benson to do much (homerism). In any case, I wouldn’t expect LT to get many touches; Monday night was a fluke. Unless Shonn Greene fumbles more and drops easy passes. Then LT will magically become the starter.
"Give us 10 points and the game is over...And they didn't score on us. Make sure you quote that. They didn't score on our defense."
"Ray Lewis has lost a step? I don't think so, Ray Lewis is still the best linebacker in football."-JH
by organizedchaos52 on Sep 16, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
LT and Shonne are supposed to get 15 touches each...
They say LT is VERY CLOSE to taking the starting job overall.
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 16, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true
at least it’s the chatter going on around here. The gameplan is to give out equal touches, but who knows? It isn’t like most coaches want their opposition to know their exact gameplan. When in doubt, I start the better player. In this case it’d def. be Benson and Brady, but I can see where it’s a tough decision.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
As much as I love the big man...
it just isn’t going to happen for him unless Bradshaw is completely ineffective. He’ll get his carries, but he’s going to be getting less of the load right now. Honestly, it’s more about keeping him healthy for later in the year, but Bradshaw is a big play kinda back, and with the passing game becoming more of a focal point, he makes sense in the offense right now. I can def. see him getting more carries as the year goes on though, so if you grabbed him late, don’t be too quick to bail on him. Also, this week could be a big one for him; maybe not statistically, but if Bradshaw can’t gouge IND the way Foster did, look for Jacobs to get a big shot. He doesn’t need holes to open like Bradshaw does, and if he makes the big plays things could turn his way rather quickly. For now though, Bradshaw is the starter and will get a slight majority of the carries.
And if you were referencing his bitching about being the 2nd RB, that’s all passed. He basically apologized and it’s been so far so good.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Isn't Jacobs going to get goal line carries?
Unless he continues to fail to score from the 1 like last week…
"Give us 10 points and the game is over...And they didn't score on us. Make sure you quote that. They didn't score on our defense."
"Ray Lewis has lost a step? I don't think so, Ray Lewis is still the best linebacker in football."-JH
by organizedchaos52 on Sep 16, 2010 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't be too sure
It’s nothing that they’ve come out and said. He may, but you saw how quickly they turned away from him last week (he got one shot on the goal line, then they gave it back to Bradshaw). They are really doing the “play the hot hand” thing, and while the initial plan was to let Brandon bust through on short yardage (including goal line plays) it just isn’t anything i’d be too sure of. I picked up both Bradshaw and Jacobs in my league to be safe, but I haven’t had a second thought about starting Bradshaw over Jacobs so far.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
mmmm thanks
yeah just deliberating here. been talking myself into believing he will break out in the new meadowlands on the suddenly porous indy D.
but yeah i grabbed him late and don’t follow the giants. So most things I know about that dynamic up there are things I have made up in my head.
Well let me say this...
I saor of said it above, but Brandon could end up having a big game Sunday night and changing the dynamic of the season. Coughlin has been hinting that while he has faith in the passing game, he really wants to get back to having the running game as the focus of the offense to be better able to control the speed of the game. Jacobs should be healthy this year (unlinke last) and if Bradshaw gets stuffed a couple times against IND, Jacobs will get chances. He looked good in limited action in the preseason and he can definitely bust out this weekend. But again, if you have a safer bet, go with it. Just watch the stats, because this game may be very telling as to who gets the majority of the carries the rest of the way, or at least for the next few weeks.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I think
it depends on your league. Do you get a point per reception? If so, I think you go Breaston. If not, Portis.
"Give us 10 points and the game is over...And they didn't score on us. Make sure you quote that. They didn't score on our defense."
"Ray Lewis has lost a step? I don't think so, Ray Lewis is still the best linebacker in football."-JH
by organizedchaos52 on Sep 16, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Love The League
rewatched the whole first season a few weeks ago to start getting excited about football coming back (and my upcoming drafts)
Also
Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia starts tonight.
FX is pretty much can’t miss on Thursdays between 10-11 for awhile…
Just an FYI
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 16, 2010 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm doing 4
Each with a different group of people.
I'm hurt dog! Don't ask if me if I'm alright, hell naw! We said dominate and we not doing it! I put my heart into this s***, let's go man! - Ed Reed
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Sep 16, 2010 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
New Dropping
http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/5338/os-turnaround-is-real-and-fantastic
Rob Neyer bringing the love!
Highlight:
“One’s natural reaction is assume that Buck Showalter is not just the Manager of the Year, but perhaps the Manager of All Creation.”
Damn skippy.
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
Without delving into the underlying performances here, I’m going to guess that none of these ERAs are sustainable.
Word booty. I wish that was the case, but it isn’t.
I’m also going to guess that these ERAs would not have been produced if David Trembley or Juan Samuel had been managing the Orioles for these past six weeks.
W/o knowing what Buck has done, I would say it’s completely possible.
I've been playing baseball since I was six years old, so that's 40 years I've been on a baseball field and around a baseball field, and so our opinions are formulated through facts, not fiction, not their little chat room jargon.
I just got the iPhone 4
Unimpressed.
If you have the 3GS and its gonna cost you more to upgrade… just keep it.
Aside from the camera/video camera not hardly a damn difference.
Better battery though.
Facetime is overrated.
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 16, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
all of the iPhone 4 commericals are
about expectant or new parents. This will keep me from purchasing an iPhone for the foreseeable future.
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
Well, Im expecting in 58 days...
Camden Nicholas Britton on the wayyyyy..
Maybe thats why I got sucked in on the iPhone4!
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 16, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
My wife has...
no fewer than six or seven baby-related apps. Good luck the rest of the way, March 2011 for me!
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 16, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to get flamed for this, but...
Facetime The iPhone is overrated.
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
by NewYorkOriole on Sep 16, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
FTFY
The iPhoneEverything is overrated.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
Walgreens I hear...
(in case you haven’t seen it yet…)
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
"It fucking prints money."
“I don’t care.”
hahahaha
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
by PBR me ASAP! on Sep 16, 2010 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
GENIUS
“It builds you your own island, and then turns into a fucking jet and flies you to it”
“I don’t care”
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
That was fucking top tier right there.
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 16, 2010 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If you all liked that...
the same guy made this one for all the iphone fans.
There was a big story about him as well. He works for Best Buy and they were going to fire him over some videos he made using their company’s name. He got internet famous though and people wrote letters saying they’d never shop there again and whatnot and they offered him his job back. I’m pretty sure he said fuck off.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
and, THAT's my new fave.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
The iPhone may be 'overrated'
But that doesnt mean it isn’t pretty damn sweet.
I’ve had myriads of phones over the years and I dont know what I’d do without it, or what I did before.
Everything is so readily available and accessible in a quick touch…. its freaking great.
Now Im not gonna get into the EVO HTC vs. iPhone 4G vs 3G arguments.
Just sayin’, I love the damn thing.
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 16, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I've thoroughly enjoyed mine...
and like being able to poach wi-fi at work and do the majority of my non-work internet browsing that way.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 16, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
jeebus
TWO ipods? i’m still on my first.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 17, 2010 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm on my 3rd
fuck apple. They just happen to die every 2 years with me, and I take care of my shit.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
ive got a 4 year old classic
doesnt really work anymore, but i’m not buying a new one
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 17, 2010 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
i love mine
upgraded from 3G
battery difference is fantastic
i love the dual cameras, not that i need them on a phone.
lots of little touches. and i’ve used face time a bunch with my wife being out of town.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
kids these days
back in my day, we didnt even HAVE ipods. we carried these things called walkmen around.
didn’t get an ipod till i was in college. sheesh.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 17, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions
we didn't have walkmen!
In my days, it was a big thing on your shoulder that we called a “ghetto blaster”. And it played cassettes. In mono.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
So apparently the boom box is still quite popular in Wilmington
I see someone walking around with one at least every other day.
I haven'
"People ask, 'Why Baltimore?', and I’m like, 'Why not? What am I missing?'" - Buck Showalter
Bah. You had it good.
We had 8-track-tape players with one speaker and WE LIKED IT!
"People ask, 'Why Baltimore?', and I’m like, 'Why not? What am I missing?'" - Buck Showalter
Roch commented on the estimated attendance this weekend.
What do y’all think we are looking at here as far as goodguy/badguy ratio? I know I’ll be sporting my jerseys all weekend (Flacco jersey on Sunday) Wish I could make it out to the yard.
Guessing about 50/50
I’d imagine a bunch of people will enjoy seeing Balt attempt to foil the division hopes of the MFY.
I’m pretty effing pumped about it.
I cant seeing it being all 75/25 like most Septembers.
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 16, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
FTFY
I’d imagine a bunch of people will enjoy seeing Balt attempt to foil the division hopes of the MFY.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
you have a Mike Flacco jersey?
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
TWSS
I'm hurt dog! Don't ask if me if I'm alright, hell naw! We said dominate and we not doing it! I put my heart into this s***, let's go man! - Ed Reed
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Sep 16, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Reaching too much, kid.
Also, acronyming it to “TWSS” rather than “That’s what she said” is not nearly as funny in any situation.
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 16, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
3 out of 10
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 17, 2010 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
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