Thursday Bird Droppings
by duck on Sep 2, 2010 6:47 AM EDT
in Open Threads
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PrintRecaps of yesterday's loss can be found at Orioles.com, The Sun, Boston.com, and MASNsports (with post-game Buck).
LATE ADDITION: Orioles Minor Leagues System Leaderboard - August 2010
Joe Mahoney and Ryan Adams lead the way on the offensive side, while Zach Britton and Kenny Moreland lead the young arms.
Jones exits with back soreness | orioles.com: News
Orioles center fielder Adam Jones exited his club's 9-6 loss to the Red Sox on Wednesday in the top of the seventh inning with upper back soreness.
Orioles Insider: Some observations from the Orioles' 9-6 loss to the Boston Red Sox last night
"Asked about Arrieta's tempo, Showalter said, "His tempo is something we’ve got to get better with, too. Of course, Boston dictates that a lot, as much as they step out of the box and they talk to the umpire a lot about calls."
Steve Melewski: Post-game notes and quotes
Arrieta on not walking anyone: "That is something I've put emphasis on and I've needed to work on. The at bat to Kalish in the second inning, where he hit a double in the gap, I think I was too worried about not walking him rather than executing a pitch. I left a sinker elevated on a 3-2 count and just had the wrong mindset there."
Umpire hurt in Red Sox-Orioles game | MLB.com: News
Home-plate umpire Tom Hallion left the Red Sox-Orioles game with two outs in the bottom of the ninth inning after being hit in the left arm by Nick Markakis' foul ball.
Orioles Insider: Montanez designated (deal with it!)
To make room for infielder Robert Andino on the 40-man roster, the Orioles have designated outfielder Lou Montanez. Montanez hit .223 (56-for-251) in 93 games for the Orioles over the past three seasons. That includes a .140 average in 26 games this season.
17-10 Showalter wins employee of the month | The Daily Times
"In a way, it's kind of sad it took less than 30 days for Showalter to amass half as many victories as the two previous managers this season, Dave Trembley and Juan Samuel, could muster in four months."
Orioles: Call-up is redemption for Nolan Reimold, dream come true for Brandon Snyder - baltimoresun.com
"It was just kind of a downward spiral," Reimold, 26, said. "Things just kept getting worse and worse until finally I got to that point where I had to snap out of it, turn things around, start playing a lot better and finish the year a lot stronger than I started it.
If you look at my overall numbers, they are not very good, but as of late, I've been swinging it better. They are giving me a shot, and I'm happy to be here."
Matusz Putting Together a Strong Finish | FanGraphs Baseball
"Last night he held down the Red Sox for just two runs through six innings, striking out six to just one walk. It capped off an August that has helped change the perception of Matusz’s season. Before he was a young, high-ceiling pitcher who was having trouble navigating the league. Now, after a month in which he had a 2.43 ERA and 3.34 FIP, he’s again a young ace-in-training on the right track."
The Orioles' 2011 Rotation: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com
"Pitchers like Tillman, Britton, Arrieta and Matusz will all be learning on the go, so they'll likely struggle at times. But those arms are promising, so the O's could have a young and effective rotation within a couple seasons."
Britt's Bird Watch: Is Pie for real?
"Manager Buck Showalter was posed the question regarding Felix Pie this afternoon, and whether he has finally morphed from a "can't-miss" prospect into a legitimate player. Showalter's response? No. Well, at least, not yet. "
IN THE MINORS
Big first inning helps Norfolk down Gwinnett | Norfolk Tides News
Norfolk plated five first inning runs and cruised to a 6-2 win over the Gwinnett Braves Wednesday night at Harbor Park.
Bowie won 6-2
Brandon Waring went 2-for-4 with a homer and a double.
COMEBACK EFFORTS FALL SHORT IN 7-4 LOSS | Frederick Keys News
Frederick scored a run in the seventh and three in the eighth but ended up surrendering two more runs in the ninth as they fell to the Kinston Indians for a second consecutive night. The 7-4 win for Kinston was their seventh consecutive victory and their magic number to clinching a playoff berth is now just three. For Frederick, the loss was their ninth in the last eleven games, the worst stretch of the 2010 season.
Copeland Leads 'Birds to 1-0 Win | Delmarva Shorebirds News
The Delmarva Shorebirds plated a run in the second inning and rode the pitching staff to a 1-0 shutout of Kannapolis at Arthur W. Perdue Stadium on Wednesday night. The game lasted only one hour and 53 minutes, the quickest nine-inning game of the season and the quickest nine-inning contest since the 2001 season.
IronBirds Lose in Extra Innings for the Second Straight Night | Aberdeen IronBirds News
The Aberdeen IronBirds dropped their second straight extra inning game on Wednesday night to the Connecticut Tigers by a score of 3-2 in 10 innings.
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Dibble announces he's done with Nats on XM
"I got a good Christian raising and a 8th grade education / Ain't no need in y'all in treating me this way." - Billy Joe Shaver
by duck on Sep 2, 2010 7:09 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Let the pigeons loose!
Has there ever been a cooler Oriole than Eddie Murray? I mean, just straight up cool. Like a bad, suave dude. You know what I'm sayin'. COOL. SC 7/24/08
by 33 on Sep 2, 2010 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey Dibs
Stick to what you know, which is nothing.
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
by Stacey on Sep 2, 2010 9:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You should hear the people calling up Mike Wise
because they’re devastated that Dibble was fired. Fucking morons.
The stache is back!
by Knubles and Bits on Sep 2, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
This is Peter Angelos' fault!
He HATES THE NATS!
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
That's pretty much the gist of it.
The stache is back!
by Knubles and Bits on Sep 2, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i would find it deliciously ironic if dibble became a blogger.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
If you dictate a stream of consciousness to someone who can type quickly and spell and punctuate correctly
does that still count as blogging?
Last nights loss hurt
That’s probably the 1st time I can remember thinking that in September for quite some time.
by GeoffreyA on Sep 2, 2010 7:51 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
One of the consolations
of this season had been the absence of an Adam Jones injury story. Only thing hurting was our eyes over some of the first half fielding.
I guess that was too good to last. I should remember our motto.
Has there ever been a cooler Oriole than Eddie Murray? I mean, just straight up cool. Like a bad, suave dude. You know what I'm sayin'. COOL. SC 7/24/08
I thought he looked pretty good.
Seemed pretty confident in the box, not tentative. His one hit was a bloop… not sure any of the fly outs were really solid contact, but not like they were weak grounders. Batting stance is slightly different… he lets the bat drop a lot lower when he’s moving it up and down. Still showing patience.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
Brady was talking about him most of the game
he apparently worked with him extensively, seemed pretty convinced that he’d make a solid comeback. He lucked into a hit, but you gotta give him a free pass on the first game back.
We’ll see how he looks tomorrow now that he’s had a game and we’ve aired out the uglier side of our bullpen and we theoretically have a stronger pitching lineup (and maybe a lead, pretty please?) at the tail end of the game.
Speaking of Brady...
I have really enjoyed having former Orioles add to the dialogue in the radio/TV booth. Especially loved Palmer and Brady ragging on eachother during the series in LA.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Brady was deep in conversation
with Buck during Orioles batting practice before last Saturday’s Orioles-Angels game. They were standing behind the cage and I wish I could read lips. Must have talked for at least 30 minutes. Then it looked like he was out in right field shagging flies. I think Brady might be looking for a coaching job next year. Opinions?
I know he's been involved as a kind of instructor...
but to me this is the kind of slam-dunk PR stuff that helps connect what the Orioles have been to what the organization is trying to do now. Now if only they could get Brooksie back in the booth.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
he hit a nice liner to left field
it was right at the fielder, but it was solid contact.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Well, there you go.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
I'll tell you what looked bad
Hendo pitching from behind in the count, especially in the 7th. I didn’t see Simon.
Arrieta did his share of it in the 5th and escaped with just one HR.
This looked like the old pre-August Orioles.
Arrieta still has some big issues putting guys away
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
nyjer morgan is such a fool
did anybody see that fight last night? guy must think the world is against him or something. then he leaves the field beating his chest like he actually won that fight. guy nearly had his tiny little head taken off and he thinks he won.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
What could possibly have gotten into him
to suddenly make him go crazy? He’s decked a fan, a couple of catchers, charged a mound, and yelled at another fan in the space of about a week. Oh, and he’s pretty goddamn awful at baseball on top of all of that.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
don't forget about his hissy fit in May
when he allowed AJ to have an inside the park HR. Seems like a guy that has been a pampered princess his whole life and is just pissed becasue the Nats fired his BFF Dibble.
I very much want to believe that these two things are related
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
seems like he was always a few fries short of a happy meal
someone once wrote to Deadspin about Nyjer’santics at a Hockey camp in ‘96.
let’s just say it involves fecal matter and a gatorade bottle as per the link
http://deadspin.com/5550231/the-one-where-nyjer-morgan-poops-in-a-gatorade-bottle
its on a blog so it must be true
There's a blog entry on MASN from Phil Wood
where he basically starts of with…“I have no idea what’s gotten into this guy to make him act this crazy.”
"I got a good Christian raising and a 8th grade education / Ain't no need in y'all in treating me this way." - Billy Joe Shaver
Yeah
He’s always been a little off from what I’ve seen, but he’s acting like a legit nutter right about now.
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
would you like to see my mask?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 2, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
best movie
eeeeeeevah
Bring back Luis Matos.
by WestcoastO'sFan on Sep 2, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
The helmet flying is the best part.
Dude got totally clotheslined. Sorry, Nyjer. You lost.
Now, with this charging the mound combined with all of his other recent antics, it’s hard to feel bad for Nyjer Morgan. But honestly, they’d already hit him in the fourth inning because of something he did last night (catcher collision when he maybe could have just slid – I haven’t seen the play), and then he stole second and third although the score was 14-3 (his team was the 3). To then throw behind him to “retaliate” for the stolen bases strikes me as a punk bitch move.
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 2, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I think...
he’s clearly got some issues, but on the whole of it – Volstad and Sanchez are total bitches.
The play from the night before was borderline, only in that it looked like Morgan could have slid in without going full linebacker on the guy, but since the C was standing upright, they might have been peeved for taking his legs out. Don’t stand up over the plate if the ball hasn’t gotten there yet unless you want your clock cleaned.
Last night – ok they hit him. In a 14-3 game. Real classy. He steals the bags, so their plan is to throw behind him? He had a right to be pissed at that point. For Sanchez to come out and cheap shot him is the ultimate bitch move, and then for Volstad to jump in with the Ground n’ Pound was even worse.
That said. Nyjer Morgan = Crazy.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Someone needs to do some research and check out his family tree...
…I’ll bet it turns out he’s related to Milton Bradley. Same gene pool, same zany behavior. I’m just sayin’…
MLB network talking heads (I forget who it was exactly)
were saying the 2nd pitch (the one that went behind Nyjer) wasn’t due to his stealing the 2 bags earlier, but rather due to the hard slides he took into both bags while stealing. In both instances, Nyjer nearly flew right over the bag, he was going in so hard.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
by PBR me ASAP! on Sep 2, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah this - beat me to it
fuck him. Little piece of shit wants to play dirty we’ll play dirty.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
that dude is not right
and if I ever have someone charging me I want Gaby Sanchez on my side. He nearly broke Morgan right in half.
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
I don't care about the slides...
and they should’ve expected it, given the fact that they overreacted in the first place by throwing at the guy. This is also an example of what happens when umpires are too fucking stupid for their own good. Volstad should’ve been tossed when he hit him in the first place.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I care about the slides.
And everybody else on the field does too.
I don’t know about the umpires. What difference does it make if it’s Volstad or somebody else who hits him later in the game? I’ve rarely seen a brawl lead up situation where I thought umpires warning or throwing guys out made it better.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
yeah, i agree
you can seriously destroy careers with those hard slides, whereas you can get a few bruises from getting hit in the leg or the back. Throwing at someone’s head is a totally different matter tho.
Also
you just don’t fucking do a takeout slide on a stolen base. There’s no reason to other than to hurt a guy. Do it on a double play and it’s fair game. Otherwise expect to get hit.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Ok, but...
where does it end in the “I take offense at your offense” chain of events? This is why retaliatory plays in a game like baseball are even more retarded than fights in hockey.
This is an ink-blot test kind of thing, I realize, and I see both parties as being wrong in their own, gloriously testosteroned ways.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it ended last night.
And now nobody has to worry about getting hit in the head by a pitch any more.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
No...
but they will all respect the flying clothesline of Gaby Sanchez…
Which is still a bitch move by the way. Volstad is so badass he can throw at a guy twice, then he can handle a 150lb flying squirrell.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, the 150 lb. flying squirrell was wearing a helmet.
It kinda leads to an unfair fight if one guy is wearing a helmet.
Because the...
helmet really can protect him from getting a shoulder into his chest and being driven to the ground. It isn’t football, the helmet isn’t strapped on.
This whole “gotta protect the pitcher” thing is just so…silly. He willingly threw at a guy. Twice. Man the fuck up and take him on, don’t sit back and wait for Gaby Sanchez to cheap shot him before you get your ground shots in.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, how is it manly to come out
throwing punches at a guy not wearing a helmet when you are wearing a helmet? The pitcher would be a moron to throw punches at a player wearing a helmet, he could fuck up his hand and damage his season.
that pitcher needs to suck it up and deal
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
Don't throw at guys...
if you don’t want them to charge the mound. Especially not twice in the same game that was 14-whatever at that point. At least he didn’t go Jose Offermann and bring the stick with him.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
don't run over the catcher
or try to take out infielders on steals if you don’t want to get thrown at. It’s frontier justice, the pitcher is defending his teamates.
That's just silly...
the baserunner has the right of way (see Belle, Albert v Vina, Fernando) and can chose to avoid contact or not. Belle was a douche and threw an elbow.
Morgan trucked the catcher who, despite being epically violated, was able to tag him out. Hayes injury is t he only reason Morgan got thrown at, which is dumb.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Not just Hayes' injury, but also Nyjer's track record.
He tried to pull a similar move vs. the Cardinals, but made a fool of himself. I am sure the Marlins were well aware of that.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
And Belle almost got his head taken off
the next time he played against Robbie Alomar, who aimed a throw at his head from 25 feet away while holding onto a DP ball to teach Albert a lesson.
How big a jerk are you when guys who aren’t even teammates of the guy you took out want to avenge a fellow player?
"I got a good Christian raising and a 8th grade education / Ain't no need in y'all in treating me this way." - Billy Joe Shaver
I totally forgot about that!
Maybe Belle accused him of having HIV?
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
It'[s one of my favorite non-Orioles plays of all time
"I got a good Christian raising and a 8th grade education / Ain't no need in y'all in treating me this way." - Billy Joe Shaver
Having the right of way
does not give you the right to try to injure. Albert Belle’s was a total cheap shot that is one of the most notorious incidents in baseball history. Why on earth would you use that as an example?
And the guy wasn’t “able to tag him out” – morgan ran into his glove like a dumbass because he chose to take him out instead of sliding and being safe.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
No that's not the deal.
The deal is, if you do shit that makes guys want to hit you, you can charge the mound, but if you charge the mound know that it’s not going to be a 1 on 1 fight. That’s the way it is and that’s the way it’s always been. Everybody is free to make their own decisions as long as they understand that.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Yes a helmet can protect you! What the hell do you think they wear it for???
Hmmm I wonder which hurts more…getting punched in the head with a helmet on or without a helmet on????
And jesus christ did it look like Volstad was running away? He stood there and took him the fuck on.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
To protect them from getting hit...
with a baseball. Which, in this case, was intentionally thrown in Mr. Morgan’s direction, on purpose. Twice. In a 14-5 game. So does it offend you less if Morgan takes his helmet off before going after him?
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the way the game is played.
Charge the mound and expect to be facing more than one guy. So yes everybody will respect the flying clothesline. And if Morgan hadn’t gone in with the flying hay-maker like a dumbass it would have just been a tackle – it’s not Sanchez’s fault that his flight path took his neck right into his forearm.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Was I correct and reading that Sanchez wasn't ejected?
Everytime i saw the ticker it just mentioned Volstad and Morgan, which didnt sound right to me.
Nolan Ryan...
disagrees with this.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, so Nolan Reimold and Kyle Farnsworth plant a guy
that’s 2 people out of millions of baseballs brawls.
freudian slip
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
Actually no he does not.
Watch the video:
Within half a second of Ventura getting out there he’s in a bear hug from the catch and the 3rd baseman is moving in. And then he’s grabbed by 5-6 other guys.
It’s NEVER a 1-1 fight. Ever.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
forgot the link
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aa1_1280296883
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Wow, I never noticed that...
I think I’m guilty of letting the Ventura head-lock picture color my memory. Good pull.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
There has literally never been a 1-1 mound charging fight in the history of baseball.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
But at least Ventura threw down his helmet.
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 2, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
He's a man's man...
thought he did the whole “I’m going to charge but will pretend to walk to first” thing…
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
well you gotta make the catcher think you’re not going to charge so you have a few steps on him!
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I just love the look...
on Ventura’s face as he’s “walking” down the line, it reminded me of Carcetti and Norman waiting for Rawls to leave in his car after telling them about Hamsterdam. “Wait…….go!”.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
It's pretty simple,
Morgan took out the catcher on a cheap play, so he got hit. He then tried to take out the infielders on more cheap and dirty plays, so he got thrown at again. Thats the end of it, you’ll notice no Nats pitchers were throwing at the Fins for revenge, they knew what was coming and knew he deserved it. It’s over unless Nyjer does something else stupid. Baseball has it’s unwritten rules and most big leaguers follow those rules.
Look, man...
I just watched the SB replay again and the neither of those slides were what I would call “take out”. On the steal of 2B the throw tailed back into the 1B side and the IF only goes down because of that. At 3B nothing happens, the throw is late and nobody falls down.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
I don’t know if you’re a morgan fan or something, but you seem to be the only person anywhere on the internet defending him. There are certain rules in baseball and he broke a whole bunch of them:
- don’t take out the catcher when you don’t have to
- don’t steal in a blow out and don’t slide like an asshole when you do it
- don’t charge the mound with your helmet on
He got what he deserved.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Dr. Jones weighs in
THE_ADAM_JONES 2:17pm via Twitter for iPhone
Glad how Nyjer Morgan went out to the mound. He stood up for himself. And tried to knock Volstad the hell out. U have to like that #oleskool
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
adam jones is an idiot
did he really need to say something about it?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
brackin
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
Now we just need his mom to weigh in. STEP!!!!
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 2, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure I have no problem with him charging the mound.
That’s his right. Just don’t cry when you get clotheslined.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
or beat your chest like you won
when you totally got your ass kicked
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
haha well that was just funny
If he wants to make himself look like an idiot I have no problem with that either.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
good point
that was hilarious
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
That's probably the most ridiculous part of the whole thing.
Where it looks like he’s basically taunting the Marlins fans. It’s like… come on, dude. You just got beat down. Don’t act like you’ve just won the heavyweight boxing championship.
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 2, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm honestly...
not trying to kick up shit – it’s debatable about the way he went in to the plate. If it was so fucking egregious – why not throw at him in the first damn inning, not in the 4th when you’re up by 11 runs?
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I think your beef is with baseball tradition
You traditionally hit a guy when the game is out of hand.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
yea but that usually comes from the team that is getting blown out
not from the team that is winning.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
I don't know - I don't think it matters
if the thing you were hitting him for was from a different game.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Remember the whole Clemens...
Piazza thing? And how the Mets pitcher had to hit Clemens in his very first at bat? I don’t know…if it is serious enough to throw at a guy, you do it first time up.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
that was a slightly different scenario
and they still didn’t even do it.
But just in general people get hit when the game is out of hand.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
He missed!
Which was funny too. But I agree the situation was different.
You know what the great thing is about this? The crazy-ass bullshit is going on in DC, not Baltimore. From the Strasburg injury to Dibble to this, that’s DC’s problem, not ours.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
That's very true.
Hopefully the O’s don’t tank the month and start having circus shit happen to them too though…
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Ok, NEW TOPIC:
Which current Oriole is most likely t o go Full-Morgan?
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering...
we’ve seen him get Wiggy with it – I think he’s a safe bet. But he’d take his helmet off to give the offending party a full-view of the pig face as it is beating him into the turf.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
julio lugo already has shown similar characteristics on his wife
so he could def do it on the diamond
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
I feel like Lugo would never hit anyone
that could reasonably hit him back.
by kba26 on Sep 2, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't think anybody could do it quite like Nyjer
But Wiggy’s gotta have some mound-charging potential. We saw him go nuts on the umpire a couple of months ago.
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 2, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
and that guy he tagged out at third base
plus he went linebacker on a catcher last year too
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
yea....that i agree with
that part made no sense to me. if i thought he was an asshole for taking out my teammate, nyjer would have been eating my first pitch. i wouldnt wait until the 4 inning of a blowout.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
They threw at him because he gave a dirty hockey check to the catcher and dislocated his shoulder
fine by me if they want to protect their teammates.
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
So if he slides...
hard and takes Hayes’ knees out he gets thrown at too? I don’t get it – the ball was coming in and Morgan loses time if he has to slow down to slide. Don’t stand in the way if you don’t want to get trucked.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
you’ve got it totally wrong. If he had slid he would have been safe. But he chose to be a dumbass and take out the catcher instead and be out.
http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11578087
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I just see it differently...
pause it at 0:11. The ball is going to beat him to the plate. Hayes is standing directly over the plate, doing his job. Morgan goes to slide and Hayes will drop to one knee and tag him out, since the ball beats him by at least a second.
If Hayes doesn’t get hurt, we’re not talking about this, which is incredibly stupid.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
The catcher is not even blocking the plate!
If he slides he’s safe since he didn’t he’s out. It’s not a force out!
And I disagree – any time a guy runs over a catcher when it’s not necessary (like when the catcher isn’t blocking the plate!!!) there’s going to be retaliation.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
How is he not blocking it? I'm staring...
at a still image and Hayes is clearly standing on the plate.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
there's a fucking difference between standing on the plate
and blocking the plate. Blocking the plate means you can’t get to it without running over the catcher, he was standing on it, a slide could have easily gotten him to the plate.
And tagged the hell out...
in a 0-0 game in the 10th inning.
Don’t stand on or in front of a base (especially home plate) unless you’re willing to sacrifice your body to prevent the runner from being safe.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
agree with this
remember when adam dunn totally went ray lewis on that one catcher. wasn’t that long ago but i remember it being on espn’s top plays. if you’re anywhere near the plate, expect to be knocked over.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
first of all, he was tagged the hell out anyway,
how can you think he would have been tagged out if he slid? No way the catcher is getting down in time to put the tag on him.
The ball beat him by a decent margin...
Going through the catcher was the only way he scores. He was out, Hayes did his job. Not much else to it.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
have you played baseball?
a slide and he is in easily, a truck of the catcher and he hopes he drops the ball. You always try to avoid the tag first and then truck if you can’t avoid.
I have...
and have you looked at the replay? Stop the tape at :12 (when the ball is clearly in the catcher’s hands and Morgan is too close to the plate to slide.
Morgan would’ve had to have started his slide a second or two before that, which doesn’t make much sense as the ball is arriving at the same time you are. Catcher is in the way = go in hard.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
No chance he's out if he slides.
and for the hundredth time THE CATCHER WAS NOT IN THE WAY. lol
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Also...
how was he ever called out when the ball is clearly rolling on the ground in front of the umpire? Just adds to my belief that the umpires in this series are complete fools.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Disregard...
I just re-watched the other replays and it shows Hayes held on to the ball the entire time.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
standing on the plate does NOT equal blocking it
that seems like a pretty obvious distinction
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
why did they pluck him though? I don't know the whole back story on this...
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
The 1st time was in retaliation for Nyjer taking out their catcher the night before
The catcher was standing up, on the far side of the plate no less, waiting for the ball to reach him. Nyjer came in standing up and delivered a hit on the catcher as if he were a linebacker. The catcher suffered a separated shoulder. Nyjer could have easily slide into home safely, but he went out of his way to run over the guy.
He pulled a similar stunt the series prior, against the Cardinals. After crossing home, he leaned to his left in order to make a glancing blow on Yadier Molina. In the process he missed touching home and had to scamper back towards the plate.
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
by PBR me ASAP! on Sep 2, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Ehhhh
I don’t think you were know what goes on. Who knows what Morgan said around the bases during the series? And it wasn’t just the steals it was that he went in with a fucking takeout slide on both steals – who the fuck does that?
And fuck that shit about the cheap shot – you protect your pitcher. Little shit is wearing a helmet and throwing punches? Fuck him. He gets what’s coming.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
also,nyjer totally missed on his punch to volstad (which, btw, sounds like awesome street fighter name)
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
i feel like most batters
swing and miss at the pitcher. They usually go with the big haymaker type punch and aren’t exactly hard to miss coming at you.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
Maybe they need to drop the shoulder and try the Goldberg spear.
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 2, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Kyle Farnsworth already has that move patented
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
by PBR me ASAP! on Sep 2, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
NEW item added at top - Look at minors system leaders for O's
Didn’t want y’all to overlook it
"I got a good Christian raising and a 8th grade education / Ain't no need in y'all in treating me this way." - Billy Joe Shaver
Know most of the names
but not that sure of positions these guys play..
Mahoney 1B
Avery SS?
What about Guzman and Hoes?
"Ohhh it's baad" - E. Smith
I believe it's, "Where my Hoes at?"
I feel like I learned more in eight major league starts than I did in three years of college," -- Brian Matusz
i saw that at dogfish the other day
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 2, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
westboro baptist church
is going to be protesting at north hagerstown high school on oct 5. i think i may go and prostest them with some random pop culture/sports oriented signs of my own just to be stupid…
It’s the Ric Flair Theory of baseball – To be the man, you gotta beat the man. -duck
by Parkinglotninja on Sep 2, 2010 10:09 AM EDT reply actions
education and obama is what im told
but im sure there will be just a few sprinkles of the classic: we hate gays, god hates black people, and more dead soldiers stuff going around
ive never seen them in person but i would love to go and just counter protest.
It’s the Ric Flair Theory of baseball – To be the man, you gotta beat the man. -duck
by Parkinglotninja on Sep 2, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
my favorite
is the “God hates signs” sign.
by Philly O's on Sep 2, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I liked the "Obama Bring Back Arrested Development"
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
haha i love that one
It’s the Ric Flair Theory of baseball – To be the man, you gotta beat the man. -duck
by Parkinglotninja on Sep 2, 2010 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions
I also like the
“I’m with stupid” sign with the arrow pointing to the protester.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
God Hates UZR / wOBA / FIP / etc
I feel like I learned more in eight major league starts than I did in three years of college," -- Brian Matusz
THIS
I strongly endorse this message.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 2, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
god hates rob dibble
It’s the Ric Flair Theory of baseball – To be the man, you gotta beat the man. -duck
by Parkinglotninja on Sep 2, 2010 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Albers
Is it just me, or is Albers pitching really well lately?
"Killing a Yankee fan -- is that illegal in this state?" -- Homicide Life on the Street
Another shameless plug
The Camden Chat Pick ’Em NFL Pool is now only $50.
C’mon folks, join in! What else are you going to talk about in November? Why Manny didn’t play in the AFL?
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
nah...then it would be pointless
if we’re gonna do it cheap, then we’d have to do that like week to week intsead of a flat fee
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Am I on the path to obsolescence?
No Esskay hot dogs at Ravens games? The enemy is taking root right on our doorstep.
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 2, 2010 12:12 PM EDT reply actions
“Manager Buck Showalter was posed the question regarding Felix Pie this afternoon, and whether he has finally morphed from a “can’t-miss” prospect into a legitimate player. Showalter’s response? No. Well, at least, not yet. "
Look, I like Mr. Adorable and but he’s a LF with a .759 OPS, -27.6 UZR/150, and 0.0 WAR (.2 WAR on baseballreference) player. He’s still has a way to go.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
shouldn't use UZR/150 over such a little amount of playing time
same way you shouldn’t say “we’re 17-10! We’re on pace for 102 wins!”
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
Wait, I shouldn't be doing that?
And here I was pissed because I’ve been certain that if Showalter had been here since ST we’d be in first place.
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
good point, but -5.8 UZR, still not good.
But 2.3 UZR/150 over his career in the OF. He’s not a bad defender.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
it's not good, but it's a drop in the bucket
When Felix came back from his injury he was obviously rusty in left field. He’s cleaned up up quite a bit since then and made some very good plays. I agree with Buck that it’s too early to say what kind of player Felix will be, but I do believe that if he can’t become an everyday player it will be because of his bat, not his glove.
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
Maybe there is some way to combine Felix's glove w/ Luke's bat
and they will form an unstoppable whole
"Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man." ~ The Dude
by PBR me ASAP! on Sep 2, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
well luke's glove was always above average according to UZR
altho take it with a grain of salt, UZR has some issues i think
all defensive measurements
whether they be UZR, DRS, my eyes, Jim Hunter’s eyes, Range Factor, Errors, whatever. They all have problems.
For what it’s worth, I never had an issue with Luke in left.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
Neither did UZR/DRS
Luke was, by all measures, a slightly above average outfielder.
Oh boy
I hope I didn’t miss a meme or past argument. Lighting fires is not my style.
yea man
you’re kinda like that golfer from CA who started a 25 acre blaze with a mere golf swing. UZR sucks.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
people round here fucking HATE UZR
DRS doesn’t get as much press. Frankly I think blindly attacking a stat is stupid and counter-productive, but there you go. O’sFan also pretty much wants to trade Luke Scott for a a bag of balls.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
its not blindly attacking a stat really
UZR has quite a few holes.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
oh...well andrew just said blindly attacking a stat was stupid
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
well, i would say blindly dismissing a stat is shortsighted.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
correction, it's probably better to say
i would say blindly dismissing a stat is shortsighted.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
not true
people make up stats for everything now. half of them are totally bullshit.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
yeah, we’ll just disagree here. i think about every metric is flawed but that doesn’t make it bullshit. and even the bullshit ones can still tell you something however flawed.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
I dismiss RBIs and saves and pitcher wins
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
no, they tell how many runs were driven in and how many times a pitcher left with the lead and it wasn’t blown. what it doesn’t tell you is something about a player’s performance.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
actually, a player's value is a better way to put it.
driving runs IS performance, it just doesn’t have comparative value.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
Meh
RBI isn’t the WORST stat out there if you look at it in the context of the lineup.
And stats like RBI/Opportunity, while not very useful, are still mildly interesting.
bah
I’ve seen it before. Can’t for the life of me find it now. Google fail.
why not just measure
home runs plus batting average with RISP? And “clutch hitting” which is what I see when I look at BAwRISP, isn’t a skill as far as I’m concerned.
The RBI is a useless stat for me. It measures something that isn’t indicative of player performance, and stats are supposed to measure player performance. Ergo: it should be totally ignored.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
Well
Sure, stats are mainly used for player performance. You take no joy out of random quirky stats, even extending no further value to them?
Also, RBI/Opportunity would need to include RBI groundouts/sac flies/bases loaded walks, etc.
I wouldn’t use it predicatively, but it’s a fun way to look at what actually happened.
BAwRISP wouldn't fully capture the efficiency with which a batter drives run in
especially since it doesnt even take into consideration whether or not the run actually scores. To some degree this is outside the hitters control, but not entirely (i.e. being able to pull the ball when necessary). It would also fail to account for situations with multiple runners on base.
RBI does measure performance, it just doesn't have comparative value
nor does you tell something about the player’s ability to actually drive in runs. But the player did drive in those runs. That IS part of his performance.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
meh
its not a useful part of his performance
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
Correction
53.76% of them are garbage
"I got a good Christian raising and a 8th grade education / Ain't no need in y'all in treating me this way." - Billy Joe Shaver
but nobody is pointing out those holes
they’re just dismissing the stat without actually trying to determine WHY it isn’t accurate.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
we've been thru this one before
in one thread, i’m pretty sure we went over the laundry list of UZR holes. dont really feel like arguing with it.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Its something we've gone over a million times, and its probably never going to stop
UZR : Camden Chat :: boulder : Sisyphus
Rite of Initiation
For those of us who were unaware of what we were getting ourselves into.
The more you know!
Even for those of us who do know what they're getting into
Its still an inevitable topic of discussion
Yay!
I did what I didn’t intend to do!
Anywho, in the interest of full disclosure, I’m not opposed to the theory behind UZR but I think it’s execution is flawed. Once we have hit f/x we’ll be able to form much better defensive stats.
Anyway, even scouts were pretty OK with Luke’s D. But to each their own.
im totally jazzed about field f/x
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
me too, but it’ll have it’s flaws as well and there will always be people who will be dismissive. meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
Flaws or no flaws
It’s going to be damn cool to see how/if different hitters hit the ball harder/softer/higher/lower, etc.
Just imagining the graphics we’re going to get is pretty fantastic.
and it'll correct for fielder position as well!
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
And it will become gospel
just like WAR and UZR
(which I think are useful when taken with salt)
I feel like I learned more in eight major league starts than I did in three years of college," -- Brian Matusz
definitely, although it isn't going to take much more time to see what type of player he is.
I still don’t think he’ll hit enough for LF. He’s definitely more of a CF type.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
I dunno
he has a pretty nice line drive type of swing and some obvious power. He’s not going to hit 30 home runs, but we know that you don’t have to to hit “like a left fielder” necessarily. But then he’s not walking and who knows how he ages…I don’t know, I guess.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
yes, i don't know, time will tell
but right now, it’s my hunch he won’t. he looks like a .750 OPS hitter with 15 HR power. that’s fine for a LF if he plays defense like carl crawford.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
that's what he
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
fail
that’s what he’s been so far. He’s young and still toolsy, you have to expect his batting line will improve.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
HAVE to expect? I don't think it's a given that he'll improve.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
well, I'd be surprised if he's already peaked
ergo: I totally expect him to improve.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
i wouldn't, plenty of toolsy player like him fail.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
so you think this is as good as Pie will ever be?
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
here are baseball-reference's comps for Pie
Manny Martinez (987)
Reggie Taylor (978)
Bob Brower (978)
Carlos Lopez (975)
Ted Gullic (974)
Bob Bowman (974)
Brian Asselstine (974)
Brandon Moss (974)
Joe Riggert (972)
Luis Terrero (970)
So yes, it’s very possible.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
that's not what I asked
we all know that so far in his career Pie has been underwhelming at the plate. Your comp list only redemonstrates this.
Do you, birdman, think Pie has peaked in his career?
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
yes,
comp, and correct me if i’m wrong because i’m not 100%, is suppose to give a sense of a player’s projection.
So to answer your question, i can’t and won’t answer in the definitive. but i’ll just it’s very possible… somewhat likely.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
in fact, i'm right.
These values are computed in the exact same manner as the above manner. However, instead of comparing an active player’s career to the entire career of retired players, we only compare the active player’s career to the retired player’s career when they were the same age as the active player. This gives more interesting lists for the active players because we get an idea of what path the player is taking.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
yeah, what he said
birdman, I guess we’re just going to have to settle. I think Pie will get AT LEAST moderately better at the plate, and you think he’ll only get worse. And that’s that.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
Luis Terrero? I think that sound we just heard is Stacey crying.
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 2, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, that comp list is depressing as fuck.
but it’s not suprising. toolsy guys flame out all the time.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
I wonder if it would look different if we only considered his time with the O's?
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 2, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe, but you can't cherry pick years like that.
it undermines the validity of the measure.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
I dont think its cherry picking
Its picking a set of years during which he was performing under certain conditions. You can argue that including his Chicago years undermine the validity of his future projections by including time when he was in sub-optimal conditions.
most correct
look at nyjer morgan. he combines to the tools of being crazy as fuck and the ability to fly like a squirrel. toolsy players flame out regularly!
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
morgan's best moment
is the meme on the lookout landing.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
i'm not going to check that at work
but it seems like it’ll be funny. nyjer is one crazy dude. although the nats got him for lastings milledge and he was crazy as hell too.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
What are his tools other than speed?
Arm? nope. Power? nope. Glove? nope. Hit for Average? nope.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
are you saying nyjer isn't toolsy?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
haha yea
i was joking about him being toolsy. his “tools” are the ability to be crazy as fuck and the ability to fly like a damned squirrel when you get clotheslined. pretty great tools IMO
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
the fact remains
toolsy guys can flame out! :-)
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
hahah never thought of it that way
good one!
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
The comp list is not toolsy guys.
It’s guys who put up similar stats to Pie at this point in their careers.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I really don’t know enough about the players to know if they’re “toolsy”. Maybe there were, maybe there weren’t. Most of them are before my time. But yes, the list is compiled by stats not by scouting observations.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
well carl crawford is a 5+ WAR player,
so he doesn’t even have to be as good as crawford to be valuable
yeah, well, 1) he’s been a five war player the past two seasons, during his late 20s seasons. typical peak years. he’s going to decline if he follow a normal age curve (don’t get me wrong, he’ll age well though and be a plenty useful player). so those 5 WAR years and a bit of an aberration. 2) and his bat has a notch better than pie’s bat. but yes, i like the carl crawford comp. but i’m extremely skeptical of him another carl crawford because crawford’s war is largely driven by his range factor which is leaps and bound better than pie.
Don't mess with the bull, young man. You'll get the horns.
speedy-athletic types with good defensive skills usually age well, unless
The walks are definitely a concern though. He was walking at league average last year, so hopefully he can get back to that next year.
It depends on how you look at it
I agree with you that it doesn’t matter who in a lineup is hitting as long as it works out, but if you look it from trade value perspective it certainly does matter. I mean the idea of trading Felix makes my stomach hurt, but if I put on my James F hat for a second, I’ll say that Felix is more valuable as a center fielder, so if you make him a center fielder and his bat doesn’t come around, he can still be turned into something that will help the team.
Moot point though because nothing is dislodging AJ from CF other than injury.
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
Eh
I think you make him a CFer if you think he’s a better CFer than Jones. Everybody knows he can play center currently – why would having him play there improve his value?
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
because "everyone knows" isn't going to cut it when you're trying to trade him
if he’s been playing left field for two years. Then he’s a left fielder and there will be no recent indication that he can just go back.
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
Why doesn't it cut it?
If by everybody I mean GMs, who else exactly needs to know by seeing it?
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Because if a guy doesn't play CF for a couples years, he's no longer a CF
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
Even if all the scouts and GMs think he can???
I don’t see how that’s reality.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I don't think that's a realistic scenario
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
So right now, for example
you’re telling me that his only value on the open market is as a left fielder? I just don’t see how that can be, when everybody knows that he can play center.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
I'm not talking about right now
I just don’t think that if he plays left field for two or three more years that ltierally everybody will still think him capable of playing a satisfactory center. Do you think someone will try to sign Crawford as a center fielder?
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
But right now IS that exact circumstance
He’s playing LF but everybody knows he’s a LFer.
I wasn’t arguing that we should keep Pie in LF for 3 years and then try to trade him as a CFer – I was just saying I don’t necessarily think he has to play CF for people to know he can play it.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
dont think the CF thing is a given
i think its more of a “he could if we really needed him to.” a team looking for him would likely be a team looking primarily for a LF
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
I think it's a lot more than that
I think most of the talent evaluators in the league believe he’s a better CFer than a lot of the CFers out there.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
oh i'm sure
but he doesnt play the position enough for anyone to make a serious offer. i definitely would not trade for him to be my starting CF right now. i’m sure he could play the position decently, but if i have to give you a great deal for that gamble…..pass
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
if he doesn't have as much value as other left-fielders with the bat,
than he has to make up for it in other ways.
well
I look at it from a total team perspective. You don’t win games by matching up your 9 positions against the other team’s 9 positions one at a time. It’s cumulative. If you have a stud hitting catcher (which I hope to god we eventually do) then your LF doesn’t need to be as strong. If you have a stud hitting SS then your 1B doesn’t need to be as strong.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
not to mention the defensive contributions
but, with this team there are approximately zero sure-things in the lineup, and so we really do have to ask if Pie can hit enough to justify being the everyday left fielder since we don’t currently have that stud shortstop or stud hitting catcher.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
sure
we don’t have any of the pieces in place, but that’s the whole point – the guys have to develop a bit before we can make any judgments. But even if we don’t end up having that stud hitting C or SS if Pie is a good hitter I really don’t care how he stacks up against LFers.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
that's a good point
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
Well, i dont think saying they dont "need to be as strong" is necessarily true
I’d prefer to think of it as getting unusual production in an area from one position allows you to focus on undervalued skills at the position you would usually rely on for that production. A shortstop who hits 25 home runs might let you get a unusually fast first baseman who’s a good baserunner, but we’re going to have to be strong at every position to compete in this division
I think we're basically saying the same thing
but sure I agree with that.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Yeah I certainly dont think we're disagreeing, it was more an elaboration
My point was just that just because we might have Wieters at his full potential behind the plate means we can have a black hole (read: Garrett Atkins) at 1st. We still need a very good first baseman, it just means we can have one that does other things if we dont have to rely on him for power.
It’s part of why Mahoney is so interesting if he can develop. I have no idea if he’d be able to steal as successfully off Major League pitchers/catchers, but having that sort of speed at first base would provide an unusual aspect to our offense.
Yeah
also there are plenty of left fielders who are great hitters but suck with the glove – if we have the offense elsewhere Pie could be a mediocre hitter and a great fielder and I’d be just fine with that.
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
All that's true, I'm not arguing with you,
I just think you want to put the best player possible at each position. Don’t you ideally want a left-fielder who is worth as much as an average left-feilder. So I don’t really care whether or not he can hit as well as other left-fielders, if he’s a good defender and base-stealer, than the offense doesn’t make as much of difference.
i think the practical application of it
is in trades (especially involving prospects who have a bat that “will play” at a given position) and also in terms of maximizing your return. If Jones’ bat plays like a left fielder, and Pie’s plays like a center fielder, and Pie is a better defender than Jones, then you are losing value by playing them as currently situated.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
It's worth pointing out that DRS has him at +7 in LF for the year.
Mostly due to +6 for his arm, but still. Not that I’m arguing for one over the other, really, just saying that they disagree.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
all i know is that dave johnson hates the way he chases after fly balls with his glove up
instead of using his arms to run,
and al bumbry agrees
if al agrees i agree
yeah, my bad, i just replied without reading further
you can facepalm me right back for that
Somebody stop me before I kill again
I just bid on Bergy’s game-used orange jersey and pants.
…At least I didn’t bid on B2B or Jeff Datz.
For those complaining about the missing players, it looks like they’ve added some since then, including Felix, Arrieta, Guts, Crow, etc.
"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson
man, I want to wear Jeff Datz' orange pants so bad
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
Datz troubling
"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson
by Brotz13 on Sep 2, 2010 1:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Do you think if someone bought Crow's orange uniform, they could use it kind of like a voodoo doll?
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 2, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Even better
Stuff it with old newspapers and hay. No one would be able to tell the difference.
"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson
by Brotz13 on Sep 2, 2010 1:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The hay wouldn't tell people to swing at shitty pitches either.
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 2, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn you for telling me about Felix being on there, Brotzy
now I gotta bid.
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
wow it's his whole uniform?
I thought it was just the jersey. What do I do with that? Do I sit at home watching TV dressed entirely in a bright orange Felix Pie uniform?
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
Give it to your man...
for some “fantasy” baseball?
/thatwaswrong
"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public." - H.L. Mencken
by TerroristFistJab on Sep 2, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Some people may believe you do this already, Stacey.
It's as if every eccentric in the South decided to move north, ran out of gas in Baltimore, and decided to stay. - John Waters
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 2, 2010 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd never seen Ryan Berry's photo before
Now I’m a huge fan.
yes
I’m sad he’s gone back to school already and won’t be around for the playoffs. I want to see him in person.
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
KLaw bringin the joy
from his chat today:
“I might still vote for [Brian Matusz] as AL ROY if I had that ballot. I certainly believe in his long-term value far more than I believe in Austin Jackson’s, and the AL East is a brutal place to pitch, especially if you don’t get to face the division’s worst lineup. I’ll say he’s an ace in 2012 or 2013, with modest improvements next year.”
...a piece of V mail in which everything but the salutation "Dear Mary" had been blocked out and on which the censoring officer had written, "I long for you tragically. R. O. Shipman, Chaplain, U.S. Army."
Bah, beat me to it.
I asked him if he knew anything about Glynn Davis, but unsurprisingly, no response.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
This comment is brought to you by my brand new Samsung laptop.
Buck Showalter clearly isn't interested in having Anthony Rendon as a member of the Orioles.
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Sep 2, 2010 2:51 PM EDT reply actions
I think maybe she's asking her man if he needs her to make him a sandwich
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
1/2 of Dave Chappelle's rules for a man's happiness...
Rub some $100 bills on it, you sell-out. -duck
Tonight's lineup, per Britt
Roberts
Markakis
Wiggy
Scott (dh)
Pie (cf)
Wieters
Reimold (lf)
Izturis
Bell
Bergesen
Luke and Felix are good for the soul. -33
Who's ready for some college football?
Buck Showalter clearly isn't interested in having Anthony Rendon as a member of the Orioles.
by BaltimoreSportsFan on Sep 2, 2010 3:45 PM EDT reply actions
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