Is the Baltimore System Falling Behind?
Baseball America recently published their top 20 prospects from the two Rookie-level leagues where the Orioles fielded affiliates in 2010, the Appy League and the Gulf Coast League. No Oriole prospect was selected for either list, while every other AL East team had multiple selections (Red Sox 2, Yankees 3, Blue Jays 4 and Rays 7).
To some extent, this listing is deceiving - the Rays and Jays failed to sign multiple protected picks in the 2009 draft, and therefore had extra picks in 2010, which they used on easy to sign players who went quickly to rookie level clubs. But it also reflects how the market for amateur talent has changed, and how the other clubs in the AL East are at the forefront of that change, while the Orioles have remained largely stagnant since the first wave of improvement under Andy MacPhail.
Last week, the Red Sox made a somewhat puzzling move, signing Felipe Lopez. This move will not help the Red Sox in any meaningful way over the final week of the season, and Lopez was a problem in the clubhouse for the Cardinals and is having a poor season. But Lopez is a Type B free agent who is being paid a low salary in 2010, allowing the Red Sox to offer arbitration and possibly gain a supplemental first round pick for roughly $50,000.
AL East teams have become experts at stockpiling picks in the supplemental round, with the Red Sox having two supplemental picks in the 2010 draft, one in 2008, and two in 2007; the Blue Jays netting three in 2010, one in 2009, and three in 2007; the Rays netting one in 2010 and the Yankees trailing with their most recent supplemental pick in 2008. The Orioles have not had a supplemental first round pick since 2006, and in the intervening period have lost three picks due to signing Type A free agents.
MacPhail and scouting director Joe Jordan downplayed the impact of this last offseason, when the signing of Mike Gonzalez cost the Orioles their second-round pick, suggesting that overslot deals in later rounds could assuage the loss of high picks due to free agent signings. However, the outcome of this so far has been disappointing. The GCL Orioles in 2010 featured several overslot signings from later rounds - Cameron Coffey, Tim Berry, Sebastian Vader, Wynston Sawyer, and David Rivera. None were impressive enough to make BA's top 20. The same was true of the Bluefield Orioles, who featured David Baker, Jarrett Martin, Michael Ohlman, and Brenden Webb.
Looking at the players who were selected as top prospects from the rookie leagues by BA, we see that the drafted players were nearly all from the top three rounds. The honored players are names like Delino DeShields Jr., Mike Foltynewicz, Todd Glaesmann, Jake Marinsick, Kellin Sweeney and Cito Culver. Like other markets in baseball talent, the draft is becoming an efficient market - teams are less and less inclined to allow the top talents to slip into the later rounds. The handful of players who are from below the second round on this list, such as Marinsick or Luke Bailey, were top talents who were given the kind of seven figure bonuses that the Orioles have not paid out since Jake Arrieta.
To some extent, this suggests that bias may play a role in BA's rankings. This is also indicated by the high rankings of international signees who received high bonuses, such as Gary Sanchez, Miguel Sano, Juan Urbina and Max Kepler. Scouts and evaluators already know the players who were drafted in the early rounds or who were given high bonuses, and they are more likely to see the potential of these players than they are the more anonymous names who get results on the field without the same fanfare. But for minor league players, value is based on perception - the players who the industry believes are most valuable are going to be the ones most in demand, regardless of whether those players are actually the best prospects for eventual major league success. And as player evaluation grows in importance, the market values of prospects and their actual values will continue to converge.
All of this suggests strongly that at least in the present, the quality of the prospects in the lower minors of the Orioles has fallen well behind that of the competition in the AL East. This is a problem that even the greatest of managers cannot solve. Until this disparity is rectified, our competition will develop more young stars, will be able to trade for more established players from other teams, and will have more talent on the field when we play them. For a team that has spent over a decade losing the majority of their games, we cannot afford to allow this disparity to persist if we want to be competitive. And the Baseball America rankings suggest that we have a lot of work to do simply to catch up.
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I've missed our ray of sunshine :)
You never know when someone is gonna sneak up on ya at the dolphin show! -wrb1990
I have a hard time believing
the Red Sox can turn Felipe Lopez into a draft pick…but it certainly remains true that the Orioles obviously don’t value prospects even remotely appropriately considering their immediate competition.
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
I can't see why Lopez won't accept arbitration.
Is another team really going to offer him a multi-year deal?
I've been playing baseball since I was six years old, so that's 40 years I've been on a baseball field and around a baseball field, and so our opinions are formulated through facts, not fiction, not their little chat room jargon.
It’s definitely a problem, this article be Steve Melewski is also a cause for concern.
The GCL Orioles in 2010 featured several overslot signings from later rounds – Cameron Coffey, Tim Berry, Sebastian Vader, Wynston Sawyer, and David Rivera. None were impressive enough to make BA’s top 20.
None of them had enough IP/AB’s to qualify.
The same was true of the Bluefield Orioles, who featured David Baker, Jarrett Martin, Michael Ohlman, and Brenden Webb.
This is what they said about Webb in their chat:
The most popular was CF Brenden Webb, who signed for $250,000 as a 30th-rounder in ’09. A physical 6-foot-3 lefty hitter, he looks the part and people liked his fluid swing, but he struggles too much with offspeed pitches now (58 strikeouts in 61 games). He could be dangerous if he learns to hit to all fields.
Webb and Ohlman should have made the list on potential alone, oh well.
are you saying
that Vader et al. would have made the list if they had played more? I’m just looking for clarification here.
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
Possibly, has a projectable frame, signed for $150,000 and some impressive off speed stuff. Because of the talent level in the league I think he would have come up short.
by Jordan Tuwiner on Sep 29, 2010 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm just so happy that O's drafted a guy named Vader.
I've been playing baseball since I was six years old, so that's 40 years I've been on a baseball field and around a baseball field, and so our opinions are formulated through facts, not fiction, not their little chat room jargon.
There's still good in him!
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
Over spring break this past year I watched all six Star Wars movies
And that scene made me want to vomit. Typical Hollywood.
I'm back. YAY SUMMER!
starting to seem like the orioles are just cursed. Such a long run of futility and high draft picks, yet such little production out of the high draft picks. how is it that the Rays seem to always be able to bring guys up 1-2 years after drafting and get great production. The reds did it too, this year. Padres as well.
maybe its the division. maybe the orioles would be able to pull of the random competitive year if they played in a shit division like the NL west.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
The O's are not cursed
Just about all of the team’s problems are of its own creation.
"Walk not down that road, I cannot tell you where it goes. Ask me no more questions - some things you're not meant to know." - The Sword
by duck on Sep 29, 2010 3:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
then how do you explain Garret Atkins?
…oh….
"There's going to be a general lack of toast in the neighbourhood this morning. Many many bewildered breakfast faces."
That was a dumb signing from the word go.
Sure, no one expected him to be THAT bad, but anyone expecting anything remotely productive was delusional.
"Walk not down that road, I cannot tell you where it goes. Ask me no more questions - some things you're not meant to know." - The Sword
well, yeah. i don’t actually believe in curses, just can’t comprehend how it’s possible to suck for so long for an organization that’s not completely against ever spending money like the Pirates or Royals. you’d figure the O’s would at least have to get lucky on a draft pick at some point. even the higher levels of the minors are devoid of real talent when compared to the competition.
a life: it's the shit that happens while you're waiting for moments that never come -Lester Freamon
by eastcoastatlas on Sep 29, 2010 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, you know what they say about luck.
It’s easier to get lucky on draft picks when you scout well, draft well, and develop well. And the O’s haven’t done those in a long time (and might only be average now, even though things are a lot better than they used to be).
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
You make your own luck in sports
with preparation and work.
"Walk not down that road, I cannot tell you where it goes. Ask me no more questions - some things you're not meant to know." - The Sword
2010 Orioles Farm System: INJURIES
I wouldn’t say “falling behind”..but I would say it’s not been a good year.
The Orioles system has endured a wave of many injuries. Part of the reason why there was a record set this season in signing bonuses has to do with replenishing this stock. After a few rebounds from various guys, and we could see an above-average system bounce back next year. Maybe. Or, we could see a good portion of that stock get absorbed by attrition rates.
I only mention this particular season because...
…only a year ago, it seemed that the Orioles system was on a real strong upward trend. These things can seem to swing wildly from year to year. Don’t let short-term results trick you.
interesting comment
If the O’s had bad luck with injuries, then their shitty showing in BA doesn’t seem like a big deal… or at least not something that was within their control.
I've been playing baseball since I was six years old, so that's 40 years I've been on a baseball field and around a baseball field, and so our opinions are formulated through facts, not fiction, not their little chat room jargon.
Exactly. Take a look at the chart I posted at the bottom of this post over on Minor League Ball.
by Jordan Tuwiner on Sep 29, 2010 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
We're not the only team who has had injuries
The Red Sox saw two of their three top prospects go down for the year, yet because they are far more aggressive in the draft and in international signings, still produced several prospects whose stock rose considerably.
I don’t think I’m being fooled by short-term results – what my failing may be is that I see this as a situation in a competitive marketplace.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I don't know
First of all, it is impossible for me to know what is Jordan, what is MacPhail, and what is Angelos. But second, I’m still working on quantifying an answer to that, which is what my draft in review series is about.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Depressing
I would rather have a second round pick than any of the free agents we signed. True, Gonzales has turned into a quality signing. But, we need to build our farm system, and giving up high draft picks for a few fewer losses at the major league level gets us nowhere. But for Gonzales, Bradford, and the other reliever whose name is escaping me, we would have three more high draft choices in our system..
And this doesn't even factor in the low minors, really
John Sickels review of the Orioles top 10 heading into this season:
1) Brian Matusz, LHP, Grade A: 4-12, 5.28 ERA for the Orioles, 100/51 K/BB, 144 hits in 130 innings. I know Orioles fans are disappointed, but I still believe he’s going to be a really good pitcher eventually.
2) Jake Arrieta, RHP, Grade B+: 1.85 ERA, 64/34 K/BB in 73 innings for Triple-A Norfolk, 5.23 ERA with 34/40 K/BB in 72 innings for the Orioles. Command the issue, as expected.
3) Zach Britton, LHP, Grade B: 2.69 ERA combined between Double-A Bowie and Norfolk, 101/43 K/BB in 130 innings, 120 hits, 2.67 GO/AO. I love this guy and I think he deserves more attention than he receives.
4) Josh Bell, 3B, Grade B: .278/.328/.481 for Norfolk, .210/.222/.242 so far in the majors with a horrible BB/K (1/22 in 62 at-bats).
5) Brandon Erbe, RHP, Grade B: 0-10, 5.73 in 14 starts for Norfolk, 50/22 K/BB in 71 innings, 86 hits. Yuck. Sore shoulder.
6) Brandon Snyder, 1B, Grade B-: .264/.331/.412 for Norfolk. Blah.
7) Matt Hobgood, RHP, Grade B-: 4.91 ERA, 49/34 K/BB in 77 innings for Low-A Delmarva, 1.98 GO/AO. Like the grounders, but unimpressive otherwise. Still very young, equivalent to a college freshman. Will cut him some slack for now.
8) Mychal Givens, SS, Grade B-: Just seven games for Delmarva in May, 4-for-18, has missed most of season with hand injury.
9) Brandon Waring, 3B-1B, Grade C+: .254/.350/.481 with 19 homers, 149 strikeouts in 401 at-bats for Bowie. Like the power, but already 24 and the strikeout rate is scary.
10) Kam “The Almighty” Mickolio, RHP, Grade C+: 6.85 ERA with 31/10 K/BB in 22 innings for Norfolk, 30 hits. Blech. If he can’t figure things out soon, he should check into this for a new job opportunity.
Matusz should be a ROY contender. Britton should be a top 20 prospect. Arrieta did well enough to get promoted and while he has things to work on, he has not had a bad year or anything like that. But after that…oy. It’s not as if the sky is falling, or even that Jordan is doing a bad job (I think he’s doing a fine job), but the Orioles need to do more than merely keep up with the division in terms of minor league development, and they are not even doing that.
Librarians are hiding something
Koji
B-Ref says he’s not eligible for arbitration until ‘12. What happens if the O’s don’t resign him this offseason? Could we get a supp. pick?
I don’t know these rules nearly as well as I should.
by Dingbat Charlie on Sep 29, 2010 10:10 PM EDT reply actions
We just got shut out on the Sally league list also
- on the list? Tyler Matzek.
by Dingbat Charlie on Sep 30, 2010 5:24 PM EDT reply actions
not sure what happened there
Matzek was #3 on the list.
by Dingbat Charlie on Sep 30, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
We finally got one
Avery is #12 on the Carolina League list.
Several folks mention Hoes in the Q&A, and a couple ask about Berry and Mahoney.
Lacy Lusk: L.J. has a lot of backers in the chat today. He did a great job getting on base this year and has a lot of tools, so maybe he’ll prove he should’ve been on here. He just didn’t receive enough attention from the managers outside Frederick to make the list.
and this... Lacy Lusk did a nice job on the chat, fielding many questions
Dylan Paul (Chapel Hill, NC): Where does LJ Hoes rank in comparison to some other CL second basemen? What is his overall prospect value now/future ML projection?
Lacy Lusk: He and Lynchburg’s Cody Puckett were the top two second basemen who didn’t make the top 20. Would say Hoes could well be an everyday major league second baseman. Has the bat and the range to stay in the middle of the infield for sure.
by Dingbat Charlie on Oct 7, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions

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