Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: NFL Players Ready To Welcome Gay Teammate

Memo to Orioles: Signing relievers to multi-year deals is bad.

The news of the Orioles' decision to sign Kevin Gregg to a two-year contract left many of us shaking our heads. Off the top of my head I couldn't think of one reliever signed to a multi-year deal recently that has worked out in the Orioles favor, but I thought maybe my memory was just being colored by the recent memories of Danys Baez and Jamie Walker. So, using Baseball-Reference.com, I went back to the 2000 season and worked my way to the present, identifying the relief pitchers the Orioles thought were good enough to sign as free agents for more than one year. The results, as you might guess, aren't pretty. 

Mike Timlin - In November 1998, Orioles GM Frank Wren signed Mike Timlin to a four-year, $16M contract. Timlin, 32 years old at the time, was a seven year ML veteran with great numbers as a reliever. From 1991-1998 he accumulated a 3.52 ERA (129 ERA+) with a 2.13 K/BB ratio. His 1998 season with the Mariners was especially impressive and probably led to his multi-year deal.

Timlin spent 1 1/2 seasons with the Orioles and was never a dominant closer. He blew nine saves in 1999 and four in 2000 before being traded, and lost his job as closer in both years. He was traded to the St. Louis Cardinals as part of the Orioles' 2000 fire sale. The Orioles sent Timlin and cash to the Cardinals for RHP Mark Nussbeck (who never made the majors) and utility infielder Chris Richard. All told the Orioles ended up spending $6.5M and a third-round draft pick for Timlin, who couldn't live up to his contract.

Buddy Groom - I have very fond memories of Buddy Groom. I suppose it is because he was with the Orioles for five seasons, which for a reliever is pretty rare. The Orioles signed Groom in December 1999 to a two year, $4M contract with a $2.5M option for a third year, which was ultimately exercised. In those three years Groom was a workhorse, making 70 appearances each year. Groom was an effective part of the bullpen with a K/BB of 6.0 in 2001 and 4.0 in 2002. No wonder I have fond memories of Buddy Groom.

You might say this was a multi-year deal worked out for the Orioles, but instead of counting their blessings, they ruined everything by signing Groom to an two year, $6.25M extension. This was an extension, by the way, that began when Groom was 37 years old. 2003-04 Groom wasn't nearly as successful. His home run rates shot up along with his walk rates, and in those two years his ERA was a combined 5.05.

Star-divide

Mike Trombley - Mike Trombley spent eight seasons with the Minnesota Twins before signing a three-year, $7.75M contract with the Orioles in November 1999. And you know what? He wasn't even all that good for the Twins. He had a couple good seasons, sure, but that's it. But he did have 24 saves in 1999 which is, as we know, very impressive. Or something. Trombley had a poor 2000 for the Orioles, with he had a walk rate of 4.8 and a 4.13 ERA that was aided greatly by a ridiculous 85.2% LOB rate. He blew seven of eleven save opportunities and allowed one-third of his inherited runners to score.

Trombley had a bit more success for the Orioles in 2001 despite a drop in his K rate thanks to his .237 BABIP. He pitched to a 3.46 ERA and only blew three saves in nine opportunities. He was traded at the deadline for Kris Foster and Geronimo Gil. The Orioles ended up spending about $4.5M and a second-round draft pick for Trombley before unloading him to the Dodgers. But hey, we got five years of a backup catcher in return!

Steve Kline - Ugh, remember this guy? What a jerk. In case you've forgotten, Kline threw his teammates under the bus saying they weren't picking him up when he made mistakes, bashed Baltimore fans for not being as good as fans in St. Louis, and publicly wished he could return to the Cardinals. This all happened after the Orioles signed him to a two year, $5.5M contract in December 2004.

Kline spent one miserable season with the Orioles, sporting a 4.4 BB/9 and 5.3 K/9. He gave up 11 HR in 61 innings pitched, got suspended for flipping out at an umpire over a balk, and generally made everyone hate him. Kline was traded to the San Francisco Giants after the 2005 season for LaTroy Hawkins, who made more money in 2006 ($4.4M) for the Orioles than Kline did for the Giants ($3.0M). Oh, and Hawkins also turned out to be kind of a crybaby.

Danys Baez, Jamie Walker, and Chad Bradford - Oh, here we go. I actually wrote about Baez, Walker, and Bradford in a 2009 piece titled, The End of the Bad Contracts. Everything you need to know about those guys can be found there. Bottom line is that the in November 2006, the Orioles spent $41.5M on those three pitchers, each signed to a three year deal. Bradford was decent, when Walker was good he was very good, and when he was bad he was awful, and Baez (whose $19M contract was the largest) was a giant hot mess from the get-go. In addition to the $41.5M, the Orioles also lost their second-round draft pick for Baez and their third-round draft pick for Bradford.

Mike Gonzalez - None of the previous contracts were given out by current O's GM Andy MacPhail, and until he signed Mike Gonzalez I thought maybe those days were behind us. MacPhail signed Gonzalez in December 2009 to a two year, $12M contract and declared him the closer. Gonzalez blew a save on Opening Day and again at the home opener three days later. After that he went on the disabled list and wasn't heard from again until July 22nd. From then until the end of the year he was good, posting a 2.78 ERA and holding batters to a .165/.258/.253 hitting line. He still has a year on his contract to prove his worth, but he lost the closer gig and I don't know how awesome he'd have to be for anyone to declare his tenure as an O successful. Maybe if he brings back something valuable in a trade? So far he has cost the Orioles $6M and one second-round draft pick, and he'll make $6M more in 2011.

Kevin Gregg - The best thing that can be said about Kevin Gregg is that he didn't cost a draft pick. The Orioles offered Gregg a two-year contract a month ago, and he hemmed and hawed, waiting for a comparable offer from another team (this is my speculation, of course). When none came, he finally agreed to slum with the Orioles for a two year, $10M contract with a vesting option for a third season. We've discussed Gregg at length here, but this appears to be another bad decision.

Since signing Mike Timlin before the 1999 season, the Orioles have, by my count, signed nine free agent relief pitchers to multi-year deals. That's nine contracts totaling $103M and costing the team three second-round draft picks and two third-round draft picks. They did get some of that back by dumping the players on other teams, but other than my boy Buddy Groom (and arguably Chad Bradford since he got traded before he got hurt), none were worth jack in their time with the Orioles. If you're a fan of the WAR, here is what each of them accumulated in their time with Baltimore (from FanGraphs):

  • Timlin: 0.1 in 1.5 seasons, cost $6.5M
  • Groom: 4.9 in 5 seasons, cost $12.25M
  • Trombley: 0.0 in 1.5 seasons, cost $4.5M
  • Kline: -0.6 in 1 seasons, cost $2.5M
  • Baez: -0.4 in 3 seasons (on on the DL), cost $19M
  • Bradford: 1.9 in 2 seasons, $6.83M
  • Walker: -0.5 WAR in 3 seasons, $12M
  • Gonzalez: 0.7 WAR in 1 season, $6M (and one more season to go)

Do you think there is any chance the Kevin Gregg will buck the trend and be super valuable? Do you think the Orioles will ever discover for themselves that for every Buddy Groom there are eight other crappy pitchers?

Comment 27 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Of course,

…if they could develop their own relievers out of the minors, they wouldn’t be so tempted to give multi-year deals to free agents.

I've got nothing against the bunt...in its place. But most of the time that place is the bottom of a long-forgotten closet. - Earl Weaver

http://dempseysarmy.blogspot.com

by DempseysArmy on Jan 7, 2011 12:28 PM EST reply actions  

I hear Radhames Liz is available...

Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.

by arlingtonOsFan on Jan 7, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd take him...

…on a minor league deal. Why not?

I've got nothing against the bunt...in its place. But most of the time that place is the bottom of a long-forgotten closet. - Earl Weaver

http://dempseysarmy.blogspot.com

by DempseysArmy on Jan 7, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Signing FA relievers in and of itself isn't bad

You can get great FA relievers like Will Ohman. But you shouldn’t spend a lot of money or make a long commitment for an FA reliever. You can sign ten Ohmans for the price of one Gregg, and even if nine of them flame out, you’ve still got one guy as good as Gregg is likely to be, with no further commitment from there. And if two or three of them pan out, bonus.

by punkrawka on Jan 7, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I am totally with you there...

….but the reason they are signing Gregg is that they think they know what they are getting with him. And to get a guy who is viewed by the market as reliable, you’re probably going to have to offer him two years, minimum.

They don’t feel comfortable signing a bunch of scrapheap guys because they don’t like their core relievers. If they felt they had 5 of their 7 bullpen spot solidly filled going into the offseason, they wouldn’t be giving Kevin Gregg this much money. And if you can develop relievers from your farm system, you fill those spots more easily.

Really, developing a league average first baseman and league average relief arms is the easiest thing your farm system could accomplish but they haven’t been able to do it yet.

I've got nothing against the bunt...in its place. But most of the time that place is the bottom of a long-forgotten closet. - Earl Weaver

http://dempseysarmy.blogspot.com

by DempseysArmy on Jan 7, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

They know what they're getting I suppose

But they thought they knew what they were getting with Tillman, Walker, etc., and it certainly didn’t work out. Relievers fluctuate so much year-to-year it’s just irresponsible.

I guess I simply am awash in ignorance of Alfredo Simon. -James F

by Stacey on Jan 7, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

They THINK they know what they’re getting But they really, really don’t.

I've got nothing against the bunt...in its place. But most of the time that place is the bottom of a long-forgotten closet. - Earl Weaver

http://dempseysarmy.blogspot.com

by DempseysArmy on Jan 7, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions  

i assume you mean timlin not tillman?

yeah, i don’t get it either. they don’t like their core despite gonzo and uehara and jim johnson? that core has the ability to be pretty good, or the ability to suck, but don’t all bullpens? i’m not sure adding gregg really solidifies anything here. bad move at that price.

by Luke E on Jan 7, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, right

Oops.

I guess I simply am awash in ignorance of Alfredo Simon. -James F

by Stacey on Jan 7, 2011 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know what's to love...

…Uehara was out half the year, ditto for Gonzalez and Jim Johnson. It has potential but there’s a ton of health questions there. I am not defending the signing but this is not the foundation of a great bullpen.

I've got nothing against the bunt...in its place. But most of the time that place is the bottom of a long-forgotten closet. - Earl Weaver

http://dempseysarmy.blogspot.com

by DempseysArmy on Jan 7, 2011 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

it could be, if they're healthy and effective

yeah, that’s a big if, but it’s a bullpen. aren’t all bullpens like that? point is, i don’t think gregg is going to solidify anything. i’d love to be proven wrong, but his numbers don’t impress me. if there was any reliever to spend on, it’d be soriano, but i wouldn’t have agreed to that either.

by Luke E on Jan 7, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

but you have to trade those guys for Mark Reynolds! ;)

You’re right, though. But also there are guys out there who they could have gotten for less. I feel like I bring up the Will Ohman signing a lot, but those are the kind of players that the O’s should focus on FA-wise.

I guess I simply am awash in ignorance of Alfredo Simon. -James F

by Stacey on Jan 7, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, at least they didn't lose a draft pick for Gregg,

but still, giving him $5M for 2012 is crazy to me, and really a poor allocation of funds. In 2011, how much of the payroll is devoted to the bullpen? 25%?

In fairness, looking across baseball, it seems like there are a lot of other GMs who are giving serious coin to relievers.

If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever

by dfa on Jan 7, 2011 12:39 PM EST reply actions  

So I decided to look into the contracts given to relievers so far

There have been 13 multi-year deals given to RP:
Benoit (3 years, 16.5m, Tigers)
Choate (2 yrs, 2.5m, Marlins)
Contreras (2yr, 5.5m, Phils)
Crain (3 yrs, 13m, W.Sox)
Downs (3 yrs, 15m, Angels)
Feliciano (2 yrs, 8m, Yanks)
Gregg (2yrs, 10m, O’s)
Gruerrier (3yrs, 12m, LAD)
Carrasco (2yrs, 2.5m, Mets)
Jenks (2yrs, 12m, R.Sox)
Putz (2yrs, 10m, D-backs)
Riveria (2 yrs, 30m, Yanks)
Takahashi (2 yrs, 8m, Angels)

And this doesn’t even include Fuentes, Rauch, and Soriano who could each end up getting multi-year offers.

Now, Harold, he's a friendly guy. He rambles on and on. He'll talk the balls off a rhino-saurus.~Primus, Harold of the Rocks

by PBR me ASAP! on Jan 7, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Add Balfour to the list of potential multi-year deals as well.

Now, Harold, he's a friendly guy. He rambles on and on. He'll talk the balls off a rhino-saurus.~Primus, Harold of the Rocks

by PBR me ASAP! on Jan 7, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

check out that Benoit deal

holy moses when were the Tigers suddenly rich enough to invest nearly 17 mil in a reliever?

Get 'em.
"it ain't no sin in goin to da scrip club."
Music City Miracles Hall Of Fame, Class of 2010

by danielreese05 on Jan 7, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions  

got rid of some bad contracts

Willis + Bonderman + Ordonez = $43 million in payroll off the books

by ugen64 on Jan 8, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions  

...so they used it on Joaquin Benoit?

I must be missing something here. he had a career year last year and pitched his way to a 2.4 WAR rating. prior to that, he’d broken one measly win above replacement exactly once in his career. on top of that, he’s 33 so this deal means they’ll be paying a league average reliever about 5.5 million a year until he’s 36. the rest of his stats also lead me to believe that last year was a complete anomaly; won’t ever happen again. I don’t follow at all. if it were a truly elite reliever, guaranteed lockdown 8th or 9th inning then I’d at least see where this was a possible fit if they were that desperate to stock the bullpen, but he’s not even that good. every year save for last, his WHIP has been about 1.3-1.5, his BB/9 have ranged from anywhere between about 2 and almost 8, what gives? is there something I don’t know about Joaquin Benoit that the Tigers FO does?

Get 'em.
"it ain't no sin in goin to da scrip club."
Music City Miracles Hall Of Fame, Class of 2010

by danielreese05 on Jan 8, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions  

In addition, there have been a couple of high $ 1-year deals given out as well:

Dotel (1 yr, 3m, BJays)
Rhodes (1yr, 4.1m, Rangers)
Uehara (1yr, 3m, O’s)
Wheeler (1yr, 3m, R.Sox)

Now, Harold, he's a friendly guy. He rambles on and on. He'll talk the balls off a rhino-saurus.~Primus, Harold of the Rocks

by PBR me ASAP! on Jan 7, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

that Rhodes deal is completely nuts

and I had so much respect for Jon Daniels, too…

"The older I get the more I have come to believe that we can make such a difference by showing just a little bit of zeal, doing a little bit more, showing just a bit more of our spirit." -JoePo

by Andrew_G on Jan 7, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

garza to the cubs

it’s Garza, Fernando Perez, and another minor leaguer for 5 Cubs prospects: Chris Archer, Brandon Guyer, Robinson Chirinos, Hak-Ju Lee and Sam Fuld

Sickels: Archer B+, Lee B, Guyer B-, Chirinos C+, Fuld is a 28 year old utility OF. the Rays’ rotation of Price / Shields / Davis / Niemann / Hellickson is probably still the best in the AL East, and they also free up about $6 mil in payroll. good deal.

by ugen64 on Jan 8, 2011 12:25 AM EST reply actions  

$6m in payroll that they'll likely use to sign one of the available DH's,

Man-Ram, Jim Jam, Vladdy, or Damon. Big win for the Rays.

Now, Harold, he's a friendly guy. He rambles on and on. He'll talk the balls off a rhino-saurus.~Primus, Harold of the Rocks

by PBR me ASAP! on Jan 8, 2011 9:09 AM EST up reply actions  

That Lee kid has some decent numbers.

Archer has some good numbers too. The Rays just get better and better. They’ll probably end up trading Shields, or Niemann, or someone one of these days because of that depth.

by LoveForTheGame13 on Jan 8, 2011 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

DRaysBay mentioned Upton as a likely candidate for a possible mid-season trade.

But Shields or Niemann could as well. The Rays have another mean lefty named Matt Moore, who is almost ready to make the jump to the bigs, that could take either of their place in the rotation.

Now, Harold, he's a friendly guy. He rambles on and on. He'll talk the balls off a rhino-saurus.~Primus, Harold of the Rocks

by PBR me ASAP! on Jan 8, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

When do their prospects start missing?

Man, we’re hoping one or two out of a half dozen pitchers will be MLB average, and TB keeps finding starters with every pick. Dammit.

"You're looking at me like I should be lookin' for some place else to stay..." -Jason D. Williams

by duck on Jan 8, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Sooner or later they have to....

regress to the mean, right?

Now, Harold, he's a friendly guy. He rambles on and on. He'll talk the balls off a rhino-saurus.~Primus, Harold of the Rocks

by PBR me ASAP! on Jan 8, 2011 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The SB Nation blog covering the Baltimore Orioles.

Please read our Community Guidelines

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Dscn6381_small
Oriole Birthday Mantra.
Small
On Being an Oriole Fan in Israel
Wieters_small
The O's and Early Bullpen Usage
Mlb_orioles_wieters_240_small
O-R-I-O-L-E-S! *NOT* Day-O!
Cc_small
Awesome Stuff

Recent FanPosts

Imagescalwmbnw_small
Brian Roberts story continues to unfold
Small
Okay, okay, I give! I'm sucked in!
4fgfgjfxe30x64uwibpb59rg9_small
Help with Baseball Statistics
Small
I have to ask...
091_small
Rooting for the Red Sox
4fgfgjfxe30x64uwibpb59rg9_small
Can we get a broadcasting coach or trainer for Mike Bordick?
Pbr_12_pack_small
Literary Lounge

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Official Sponsor of Camden Chat GameThreads

Tankeray_medium
Tankeray provided by dayzd toe


Bowser

Cc_small Stacey

Koopa Troopas

Baltimore_oriole_avatar_small zknower

P1030831_small 2632

Rainbowsmall_small duck

Esskay_small Eat More Esskay

Youppi-192_small Andrew_G

Goombas

Birdman_small birdman

Thumbnail_small j.q. higgins

Img_0927_small dfa

4840750964_54cdc24eef_small James F

091_small WestcoastO'sFan

2009_june22_philliekid3_small twistedlogic

Yoshi_small PaulFolk