29 Trades for 29 Teams: Pittsburgh Pirates
by Andrew_G on Dec 21, 2011 1:00 PM EST
in Commentary & Analysis
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PrintA lazy observation: Pittsburgh and Baltimore are pretty similar in a lot of ways. They have two of the premiere NFL franchises going right now. They both have treated me to some really good food. I will say that the best dinner I ever had was in either Philadelphia (tapas) or Baltimore (crabhouse), and the best breakfast I ever had was in Pittsburgh (pancakes). They have two of the consensus best baseball parks in the world. They both also apparently only have enough karma to cover the areas of food, football, and stadia because both of their baseball teams stink.
The Pirates and the Orioles don't make very good trade partners. Neither team is past the turning point of the rebuilding cycle, so proposing a star-for-top-youngsters trade doesn't work. While the specific needs of each team seem to match up (the Orioles need run prevention, the Pirates need run scoring), the players available on either side don't solicit much enthusiasm for a deal.
So: The Orioles trade OF Nolan Reimold to Pittsburgh for LHP Jeff Locke
Nolan Reimold has had an unsteady career, but he does own a 108 OPS+ in the AL East despite the Orioles apparent public face to limit his playing time. Pirates outfielders (including the great Andrew McCutchen) totalled just a .326 wOBA in 2011, while Reimold clocked in at .341. He is pre-arbitration and should be in the prime of his playing days at age 28.
Jeff Locke is a left-handed starting pitcher who's next year in the major leagues will be his rookie season. He was ranked 8th among Pirates prospects before the 2011 season by Baseball-America, with the note that he could be the best player the Pirates received in the Nate McClouth trade. For what it's worth, he has a career minor league 3.85 ERA and 3.42 K/BB ratio. He'd almost certainly slide right into the starting rotation in Baltimore.
Is this a realistic trade proposal? I really have no idea. I'm scared of over-valuing Reimold and undervaluing Locke, and of failing to accurately suppose the mindset of the Pirates's front office. Are the Pirates really in a situation where they would be willing to surrender a quality pitching prospect for an improvement to their offense? Well...you tell me.
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Moldy
Would probably be worth more than that. Maybe not, but he should. And if they dont get more than that don’t move him. He could easily put up 3 WAR this season
I was thinking the other way around.
Reimold has put up decent numbers in bunches but is 28 and has never lasted a full season of production. Granted a lot of that is becuase the orioles refuse to play him. A 28 year old unproven entity for a somewhat above average young guy seems like the pirates would turn that down.
Reimold is overvalued around here, fo sho
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Dec 22, 2011 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
they could just tell Gregg
to go pick up pancakes in Pitt before every game. Not sure if it is in his contract that he has to get paid to be playing baseball.
this is the best idea I've heard in some time
"Birdland is the belief that as great as today just was, tomorrow might be even better." -EME
by OriolesOptimist on Dec 22, 2011 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
Couldn't WE tell Gregg to pick up pancakes in Pitt before every game?
I mean … it’s only what, 4.5 hours? Worst-case scenario, he gets lost. Er … best-case scenario, he gets lost. Either way, he’s not pitching … and sometimes we get pancakes.
EVERYBODY WINS!!!
i doubt the pirates give up a prospect for moldy
and i’ve been saying that i doubt any team would give up any decent prospect for moldy. two pedestrian years in a row tend to kill a player’s trade value. and as rany pointed out, teams are now over valuing prospects.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
This.
I would like to get Locke for Reimold but I don’t see Pittsburgh making that trade. They need pitching as much as we do, ranking last in MLB in pitching fWAR in 2010 and second to last in 2011. They can’t afford to trade away good pitching.
Mother, did it need to be so high.
As a pirates fan,
I would make this trade. Reimold has always always had upside and Locke is not ever going to be very good. 5th starter upside imo.
Prospect lists from last year identified Locke as a 3/4 starter.
I don’t see any significant changes in his numbers from last year even though he jumped up to AAA at the end. Not sure why he would have a lower ceiling now.
Mother, did it need to be so high.
Sickels graded him as a B- prospect last year. Not sure which grade he'll get this year.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
leave moldy out of this...
People seem to be undervaluing Moldy. If the Orioles give Reimold 500 at-bats in 2012, I wouldn’t be surprised if he produced 3.5 WAR. Just my humble opinion as a reimold apologist.
DMV Sports: where losing is always a reason for optimism
by oriolefreak on Dec 21, 2011 2:07 PM EST via Android app reply actions
It's already looking like the Orioles don't plan to give Reimold 500 at-bats in 2012.
I definitely think they should, and God knows I’m one of the biggest irrational Reimold fans out there. I don’t think they will, though, and I already find it annoying.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Dec 21, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
why not?
I think Endy is a guy who could get maybe 200-300 AB, stealing some from every OFer. I think 500 AB is a good number to expect from him.
The problem with Reimold, which has been mentioned here before
Is that it seems like he’d have the most value staying here, at least for now. When he plays he’s impressed us, but he hasn’t played enough to establish himself as anything.
I voted "no"
It’s not a stupid idea, but it seems to me that teams never make trades like this for MLB players who have been used sporadically and with inconsistent results (e.g., Reimold’s terrible 2010). Rather, if a team like the Pirates is going to give up a viable pitching prospect like Locke, they’re going to want offensive certainty, even if it means taking on a player who has less of a ceiling with the bat than Reimold might have.
I want to stress that I think this trade is conceptually quite fair, but I just think it’s not the way the market plays out. If the Orioles give Reimold 500-600 ABs and he produces at his historical rate (108 OPS+), then this kind of trade would be plausible in the 2012 offseason. But I don’t see it happening now.
Markakis
The Pirates actually strike me as a very plausible trade partner for Nick Markakis; they need a RF, they’ve got plenty of salary space, they’re looking to make a “splash” to capitalize on a strong first half of 2011, and Markakis still has a reputation as a young(ish) core player kind of guy. It might be optimistic but it strikes me as worth considering.
We've got an OF, they just have question marks
Can Presley keep his production up after being a mostly unheralded prospect? Can Tabata stay healthy? Will we find a 1B to free up Garrett Jones for the 4th OF spot? Not to mention Kakes has negative value after you factor in his contract.
One scenario where it could be worth revisiting is a) NL Central is down this year b) Pitt is again in contention into July c) one or both of our COF are struggling/hurt d) Baltimore will cover about $3m a year to the trade.
I am currently trying to figure out a way to trade Markakis to the Yankees
I might abandon the premise but I’m going to keep trying.
The problem
with Markakis (or Reimold) is that OF is one position where the Pirates really do have kind of a logjam. The low wOBA that was mentioned in the OP was largely the result of injuries that led to a large does of Matt Diaz and Ryan Ludwick. The Pirates already have Andrew McCutchen in center, Jose Tabata just signed a team friendly extension that should keep him in Pittsburgh through 2054, Alex Presley is still an interesting option coming off of two outstanding years in AAA and a very nice showing in Pittsburgh last year. Their top position prospect is CF Starling Marte, their breakout prospect of the past year was OF Robbie Grossman, and they just gave $5M to Josh Bell as a 2nd round pick. Even if Locke-Reimold would be fair value, it just doesn’t really fit the Pirates needs. Obviously he’d be more expensive than Reimold but I could see them targeting Schoop, especially if the O’s think he’d get blocked by Machado.
by KentuckyPirate on Dec 21, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
Schoop is unlikely to happen.
Schoop is being groomed for 2B and has the capability of playing 3B. Right now, Machado/Schoop at the keystone is our one glimmer of hope for the future.
Mother, did it need to be so high.
I know
that he’d be tough get and since he’s the #3 prospect in your system by most accounts, the O’s have a lot riding on his success. However, if he can stick at short, he’s one of the only guys that I see in the system that really matches up well with the Pirates’ needs. As the OP pointed out, maybe these two teams just aren’t the best trade partners.
by KentuckyPirate on Dec 21, 2011 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
The thing is...
they’ve got plenty of salary space
They’ve had plenty of salary space for over a decade. I’ve been watching this team trade away anyone and everyone of any value all of my adult life. Is one good half of one season enough to change that culture?
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Dec 22, 2011 9:10 AM EST up reply actions
If Reimold could play some 1B it would have maybe made some sense a month ago but with Mcgehee and McLouth now on the bench, the Pirates don’t really have use for him. Like you say, these teams aren’t a good match at all.
hey, thanks for the feedback
“Reimold at first base” is a question we’ve had for a while now, too. His defense in left looks a little precarious.
Your cannonball trajectory, it always gave me hope
I'm not sure if Reimold at first base is that great, either.
His career wOBA, wRC+, SLG, OBP, etc. would put him among the worst hitting starting 1Bs in baseball. Not to say that he would be worthless. It’s just that there is a really high bar set for offense at that position and, from what Reimold has shown so far, he doesn’t represent a good option there unless you really think he is going to take a major step forward offensively.
Mother, did it need to be so high.
How old is generally the point where players are considered to no longer have upside?
I am not as versed on the statistics as folks but even looking at them I don’t see a ton I am excited about for a 28 year old who hasn’t been able to play his way into a starting spot on the Orioles.
no age
As Bautista, and jason Werth proved. But its not that I am excited about reimold or much of any improvement, but he could/ should be above average with a full year of playing time
I think the Pirates would trade Locke
b/c they do have pretty good pitching depth, but they don’t really need a corner OF, unless he has big time power potential. I like Reimold, but he’d not really going to get regular playing time in Pittsburgh.
Steveospeak - Content Manager of Fanspeak.com
Pirate Fan
Pirates have several young outfielders on the team and a few more in the pipeline. Reimold would not be a useful fit. What Pittsburgh needs are power hitting corner infielders. Locke might make the starting rotation this spring. The Pirates have depth in the bullpen and minor league prospects.
Baltimore and Pittsburgh could make a legitimate trade. However, it be along the lines of balancing right handed and left handed bats or pitching arms. Pirates could offer a power throwing right handed reliever for a left handed reliever.
Pirates
fan here. We are pretty damn set at OF, and I don’t think Reimold would be worth Locke if we had to play him at 1B. We also have several below-average 1B options I’d rather try to see if lighting strikes.
It’s a solid trade in terms of value, but just doesn’t make sense for the Pirates. Solid overall idea though.
by McCutchenIsTheTruth on Dec 23, 2011 2:49 AM EST reply actions
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