Can the Orioles Have a Winning 2011? (Part 2: Electric Boogaloo)
Defense is a tricky, tricky thing.
Last year, naturally, the Orioles were a train-wreck defensively. Miguel Tejada took over, playing out of position for the first time in his career, for the solid glove of Melvin Mora at third base. Ty Wigginton saw a massive amount of innings in the field, as did an aging Julio Lugo. Cesar Izturis seemed to be aging, losing a step in the field, which of course is ruinous to his tagline "all glove, no bat". The outfield was at least full of talent, but we've all been frustrated enough with Adam Jones' defensive lapses to suggest that he ought to move to one of the corners.
Was this the worst defensive Orioles' team in recent memory? It doesn't seem like a stretch at all to think so. They certainly didn't help prevent many runs from scoring, as the Orioles gave up the fifth most runs in baseball last year, and they looked bad (and, honestly, bored) doing it. I wouldn't at all be surprised to tell you that the defense was one of the team's worst weaknesses, and I imagine you wouldn't at all be surprised to hear it. I know I'm not.
And that is encouraging, because if you've been following along with my expectations, you'll know that I think the Orioles only need to prevent about 65 more runs from crossing the plate as they did in 2010. That's only moving from 4.85 runs allowed per game to 4.45 runs. A hugely upgraded defense, with actual corner infielders, will go a long way towards bridging the gap. There's only one problem:
The 2010 Orioles weren't bad defensively.
In fact, the 2010 team had the best defense Baltimore has seen in at least five years. Ridiculous? Absolutely. But still true. Defense is a tricky, tricky thing.
Defensive statistics are a labyrinth of information, so let's just look at this in the simplest possible way: what percentage of balls put into play does the defense turn into out(s)? That concept is measured with Baseball Prospectus' Defensive Efficiency, which can also be thought of as a combination of opponent's batting average on balls in play (BABIP) and the number of times opponent's reached base on errors. Higher is better:
| Year | Overall Def. Eff. | Ground Ball Def. Eff. | Fly Ball Def. Eff. |
| 2010 | .693 | .732 | .855 |
| 2009 | .682 | .726 | .852 |
| 2008 | .688 | .719 | .869 |
| 2007 | .687 | .737 | .849 |
| 2006 | .680 | .716 | .885 |
"Well, so what" you say, "If the Orioles were surprisingly decent at fielding in 2010, then that's good news. Now, with the upgrades to Lee and Reynolds, and getting Roberts for a full season, they should be even better in 2011!". But there's a problem with that theory, and that is that one season of games is too short and too volatile a sample to be able to say that with any accuracy.
Think about it like this: We know that Carlos Quentin is a better hitter than Adam LaRoche. In 2010, LaRoche hit for a .339 wOBA while Quentin hit for .356, so it's not even particularly close. But in May 2010 LaRoche hit .346 while Quentin only managed .293. LaRoche wasn't just better, he was dominatingly better. But we're still sure that Quentin is the better hitter - it's just that a month is too prone to hot and cold streaks to be a reasonable measuring stick. And it would be almost impossible to predict who would be better for any one month for the same reason. And defense is the exact same way.
I can point you to defensive metrics that I have faith in which will tell you that Ty Wigginton was a better first baseman than Derrek Lee in 2010, which just sounds completely absurd. But it's not infeasible that Wiggy got hot defensively and Lee got cold. And it's certainly no guarantee that Lee will improve upon Wiggy's numbers from 2010.
Also worth pointing out is the Orioles pitching staff has, in the past two years, moved towards allowing more fly balls than ground balls. Brian Matusz and Jeremy Guthrie in particular are among the league leaders in the amount of fly balls they give up. Unfortunately the outfield is the one spot that we can all agree has been downgraded, moving Luke Scott to left field. And fly balls, while they have a lower expected ball-in-play batting average also are where most extra base hits get hit.
So, if you have a mind to suggest that the Orioles will definitely shave runs off their "runs allowed" column in 2011 because of their improved defense, I'd advise you to reconsider. While I do not doubt that there is more defensive talent in the infield (and less in the outfield), I would not put any expectation on the defense as a whole to help or hurt the run prevention of the 2011 Orioles.
Instead, any expected improvements will have to come from the pitching staff. But should we expect improvement? Stay tuned for our thrilling conclusion (coming soon!).
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I would not put any expectation on the defense as a whole to help or hurt the run prevention of the 2011 Orioles. Instead, any expected improvements will have to come from the pitching staff.
Yup. That’s pretty much all I have to say about defense.
"No Atlantis is too underwater or fictional!"
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 11, 2011 12:17 PM EST reply actions
So basically what you're saying about the defense
is who the hell knows?
I guess I simply am awash in ignorance of Alfredo Simon. -James F
yeah, that's my takeaway as well
also, we can’t all agree that the outfield is downgraded. We really don’t know anything definite about Luke defensively, and he’s not just competing against Pie—he’s competing against Patterson/Pie. Luke might well make the outfield stronger than last year.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
That's true
Say what you want about Luke, I’ve never seen him fall on his face.
I guess I simply am awash in ignorance of Alfredo Simon. -James F
Patterson signed elsewhere
Washington I believe. Scott is competing against Reimold/Pie.
by Chief O'Flyers on Feb 11, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
For this year's job, sure
But if we’re looking at improvement/decline from 2010 to 2011, he’s going to compared to Pie and Patterson from last year.
"I find you to be ... disturbingly great." - Steven Tyler
he got a minor league deal with the Blue Jays
but they’re talking about comparing last season’s numbers from the Patterson/Pie platoon vs. a full time Luke Scott.
more or less
also I was surprised at how well they did last year and wanted to share that with you. Maybe the moral is that our perceptions of the defense are often pretty wrong, even if we’re watching closely every single day. Not that I watch the games. Not enough spreadsheets in an actual baseball game.
FROG SAYS PROTECT HOME
Do you know what's considered league average for defensive efficiency?
Possible they were bad last year compared to everyone but the Orioles from years past?
I guess I simply am awash in ignorance of Alfredo Simon. -James F
Here's a defensive stat question for you
UZR is like a black box of baseball stat voodoo to me – I understand the purpose and results, but not really what goes in beyond the “it includes roughly these things as factors.” In comparison to defensive efficiency stat above, fangraphs has us at 22nd as a team for UZR in ‘10, and also 22nd over ’08-’10. 19th and 12th respectively for the scaled out UZR/150.
Does this stat not scale well for team-wide usage? It counts, so maybe somewhat of a factor of differing playing times?
Nice writeup, by the way.
Probably based on injuries
"I have seen the future and his name is Matt Wieters." Keith Law
by Reddrummer9187 on Feb 11, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
That's what I read.
Just like that, the journey is over. Depression is finished and you're on your way back to the world of the living, smiling, regular people. The road has been paved with dick-heads, back-stabbers, and pains in the fucking ass. But, memories were made, allies were had, *punks* were toppled, and the truth was discovered. And like any journey, if you stay the course long enough, the road might just show you what you need. All you got to do is keep your eyes on the road and your foot on the fucking gas.
My two cents
My lying eyes tell me that the 2010 Orioles were especially putrid at turning the double play. Is that something that might not show up in the statistics you quoted?
"The United States is the New York Yankees of countries...powerful and respected until the year 2000." - Homer J. Simpson
by Brotz13 on Feb 11, 2011 1:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Luke Scott’s bad defense is a bit of an unfounded meme to my mind. Look at UZR, where Luke Scott was above average in LF until 2009, where he started DHing fulltime (mostly because we had acquired Felix Pie). He’s been below average in the field since, but has only had 58 plays to work with, compared to 164 plays of above average defense in LF in 2008. Felix, is a good defensive outfielder by other metrics, and Scott is a downgrade, but is there anything that says that Luke Scott is terrible defensively?
And Ty Wigginton at 1st is one thing, but has to be counterbalanced by the time that we had Ty at 2nd, Atkins at 1st and Tejada at 3rd, which were all much worse than Luke Scott has historically been in LF.
I never said Luke was bad defensively
in fact, I don’t think I’ve ever said that in my entire life. But I don’t think he’s got the defensive talent of Pie and Patterson.
FROG SAYS PROTECT HOME
The thing is, if we expect significant improvements at 1st, 2nd and 3rd, then Luke Scott would have to be pretty terrible to eliminate all of those gains.
If you’re saying that it’s not clear the Orioles will be better on defense, that’s one thing, because defensive metrics are obviously volatile.
If you’re saying the Orioles are not likely going to be better on defense, I think the evidence speaks against you.
As an extra note, Our outfield will be the same outfield as the one in 2008 that had the best Fly Ball efficiency in the past 5 years.
I'm saying the Orioles could easily be better overall
and they could easily be worse overall. Now I’ve been trying to explore the idea of whether or not it’s reasonable to expect the 2011 Orioles to win more than 80 games, looking at the team on paper before the season begins. And through that lens, I don’t think we should assume that the defense will help or hurt at all, because they could pretty much do anything.
FROG SAYS PROTECT HOME
See, you’re kind of saying the polling shows candidate A 4% ahead of candidate B, but the margin of error is 5%, so we can’t tell who will win, which is true.
I’m saying that candidate A is 4% ahead of candidate B with a 5% MOE, so we can’t be certain candidate A will win, but if it’s even money bet on candidate A, which is also true.
There’s no guarantee that the Orioles will be better defensively, but they are more likely to improve then get worse.
Can't even agree with that
I know the skill sets of Pie/Patterson. But I also know what I saw out there. It was at times some of the worst.
I never said one thing about UZR
but come on. Luke’s going to be fine out there, but we’re moving from guys who can still play centerfield to a more traditional left fielder. It’s a slight downgrade in talent, which isn’t the same thing as saying it’s a definite downgrade in results for 2011 (which was, you know, the entire point of my post).
Not directed at snotboogie, but I think it’s interesting how on this very site we would have pretty good arguments about whether or not Luke Scott was any good at all in left field, and most of the guys covering the team also played Luke’s defense way down in favor of Pie, but now that Luke’s the starter, we hear weird things like “I don’t think we’re substituting offense for defense, I think we’re substituting offense for defensive range”, which is like trying to do a derivative while hula-hooping on a unicycle in terms of weird mental gymnastics.
FROG SAYS PROTECT HOME
Sure it's a slight downgrade in defense
But there’s no way that Luke’s bat doesn’t more than make up the runs possibly lost. The disparity between what Luke did at the plate vs the Pie/Patterson combo has to be more than that. There’s not a defensive metric out there that can convince me otherwise.
"I find you to be ... disturbingly great." - Steven Tyler
I agree. Luke Scott has been an average defender in the past and there’s really no reason to think that he won’t be league averagey this year. It’s a pretty safe assumption that Pie is a better defender, but Luke’s offense should cancel that out. With the defensive upgrades in the infield the o’s defense should be better this year.
by Brady's sideburns on Feb 11, 2011 8:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Izturis UZR over the last 3 seasons averages to 7.1. Hardy’s is 7.2.
What was interesting to me about the piece were the variances in the team efficiency ratings. Is that kind of thing normal?
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
all signs point to Izturis' D is on the way out
while Hardy’s remains consistently good, around a level of 6 and I have no reason to believe that it’ll drop off anytime soon.
however,
defense is a tricky, tricky thing.
Get 'em.
"it ain't no sin in goin to da scrip club."
Music City Miracles Hall Of Fame, Class of 2010
by danielreese05 on Feb 12, 2011 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
Yes. The standard rule of thumb is that advanced defensive stats need to be looked at for a period 3 times as long as offensive stats to get to the same level of predictability. So a year of defensive stats for a team should be considered in the same light as two months of offensive stats.
by D.Szymborski on Feb 12, 2011 10:07 AM EST up reply actions

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