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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

It's a sad day in Birdland when Kevin Millwood is your key loss.

In today's Bird Droppings, zknower pointed out the funny/sad fact that Kevin Millwood is considered, by the Wall Street Journal anyway, as a "key loss" for the Orioles this off-season. It got me wondering when exactly the Orioles last had what many of us would consider a key loss on this team. Obviously there haven't been many stars playing for the team over the past decade or so, but even bad teams have one or two good players now and then. It seems to me, however, that every off-season when a player leaves the Orioles, all I have to say is good riddance. For example, here are the players who made an appearance for the Orioles in 2010 who are no longer on the team or in the minor league system: Matt Albers, David Hernandez, Julio Lugo, Frank Mata, Cla Meredith, Kam Mickolio, Kevin Millwood, Lou Montanez, Scott Moore, Will Ohman, Corey Patterson, Miguel Tejada, Justin Turner, and Ty Wigginton. When you look at that pathetic list, it makes some sense that WSJ chose Millwood.

So who was the last good player to leave the Orioles? And I mean good, not serviceable. The last player that I was sad to see leave because I knew it made the team worse, and in a big way. I think the last two good players to leave the Orioles have to be Miguel Tejada and Erik Bedard, both traded in the off-season of 2007. But even then, it didn't really upset me and it didn't really affect the team not to have them around. Tejada was past his prime, although he put up a few decent seasons with the Astros before coming back to Baltimore and stinking up the joint. And while there is no denying Bedard's talent, his injuries have limited him to just thirty starts over the past three seasons, none in 2010. Besides that, players leaving in trades aren't exactly what I have in mind, because in addition to whatever pieces come back to the team, you also don't feel the sting of rejection when someone is traded.

Star-divide

Without looking up any names or numbers, the name I thought of as the last good player to leave the Orioles was Mike Mussina (I know that Cal Ripken was here after Mussina but retiring at the logical end of a Hall of Fame career certainly doesn't count). Mussina last pitched for the Orioles in 2000. Has it really been a solid decade since a player of consequence left the Orioles of his own accord? Has it really been that long since there has been someone good enough to leave? Surely my mind is playing tricks on me, and a glance through the Orioles page at Baseball Reference will remind me of someone I'm forgetting, right?

Wrong. There isn't anyone. Take a look for yourself, I can't find one player who, if he had stayed with the Orioles, would have made a substantial difference to this team. I suppose someone could make the argument for Aubrey Huff, but he was a bad player with the Orioles and I certainly wasn't sorry to see him leave. Other than that, not one name jumps out at me.

What a shame. What horrible baseball we've been watching.

Along the same topic, I wonder who will be the next good Oriole to leave the team as a free agent? Is he even on the team right now? Brian Roberts is already old enough that by the time he leaves it won't matter. Nick Markakis is signed for four more years, and while he seems to enjoy Baltimore, if he puts up good numbers and the Orioles don't improve, he'd be a very attractive thirty year-old free agent. Matt Wieters and Brian Matusz will both be free agents in 2016. My money is on at least one of them becoming a good major league baseball player, but that's still six seasons away and hard to speculate on. But it's entirely possible that sixteen years of baseball could pass between the time the Orioles graduated a true impact player to free agency (and not because they've locked up a bunch of talent, either).

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think about it this way

we are not letting the good talent walk.

and by good I mean, Oriole standard good.

by Philly O's on Feb 25, 2011 2:05 PM EST reply actions  

I think it's a GREAT thing that Millwood is our key loss

We keep Markakis, Jones, Wieters, Matusz, Guthrie, Scott….

I know none of them are up for FA, but they’re still here, and will be for years to come (except Guts and Scott, who we still have a year or so of team control). The players who are actually good are locked up for a while. That’s a good thing.

"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter

by duck on Feb 25, 2011 2:27 PM EST reply actions  

that's not actually the point

I mean, I know that’s the title, but the point is the Orioles haven’t even had anyone good enough for us to care about in ten years. The only players they’ve locked up of any consequence have been Markakis and Roberts, and it’s arguable that Roberts was a sentimental rather than logical decision.

They don't have to be good. They just have to be there. - EME

by Stacey on Feb 25, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

how about mel mora?

even though they overpaid to extend him, my recollection is that it was, in theory, a logical move and one for which the fan base clamored.

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Feb 25, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Hm, I suppose

but he was what, 35 years old when his extension kicked in? That’s not really locking up young talent.

They don't have to be good. They just have to be there. - EME

by Stacey on Feb 25, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

was the question about locking up young talent?

i suppose had sir sid not been traded, he would’ve been deemed good enough to leave. ugh. that free agent deal was preposterous.

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Feb 25, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

It's really just an observation that the Orioles haven't had anyone good enough for me to care that they've left

and you can’t make the argument that the young talent has been kept here because the Orioles are keeping them, is all. Ugh Ponson.

They don't have to be good. They just have to be there. - EME

by Stacey on Feb 25, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Pretty sure Melmo's deal was sentimental rather than logical as well.

Though I think that other than the final season when he pulled the “Why you no respect me?” card, it worked out ok, all things considered.

"I found her cross-legged in the window seat, with my good liquor in her bowels, a-firing farts at the waning moon." - The Sot-Weed Factor

by Eat More Esskay on Feb 25, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Um, Jeff Conine?

"No Atlantis is too underwater or fictional!"

by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 25, 2011 2:30 PM EST reply actions  

I dunno I'm reaching!

"No Atlantis is too underwater or fictional!"

by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 25, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

This probably is one reason why our farm system/development is below avg

We never have any decent players leave via free agency, so we never get good compensation picks

by Chanumas on Feb 25, 2011 2:36 PM EST reply actions  

Two Things:

- Would Koji have been considered our top loss if he had left?

- It is kinda nice (and reflected by our top ranking) that we acquired 3 of the top losses from other teams and the 2nd highest loss from another. Whether that means anything we’ll see

I’d have to agree that Mussina was our last big offseason loss and losing Raffy and Alomar a couple years before are the only others that come to mind

by Timbo Slice on Feb 25, 2011 3:12 PM EST reply actions  

Though the rankings were strickly related to WAR so losing Bedard would have been considered the biggest loss of this past offseason, even more so than Lee, Greinke, AGon, etc.

by Timbo Slice on Feb 25, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

since the article uses Wins Above Replacement

yeah, Koji would have been rated above Millwood….which doesn’t really make the whole “key loss” thing look a lot better.

FROG SAYS PROTECT HOME

by Andrew_G on Feb 25, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

oh, how about b.j. ryan?

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Feb 25, 2011 3:38 PM EST reply actions  

oh yeah!

that one felt like a sucker-punch when it happened, but looking back was not that big of a deal. I will probably always be an irrational B.J. Ryan fan though.

FROG SAYS PROTECT HOME

by Andrew_G on Feb 25, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah...

o’s got a lot more bang for their buck than the jays.

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Feb 25, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes!

BJ Ryan. You win.

They don't have to be good. They just have to be there. - EME

by Stacey on Feb 25, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

i'll take my prize money...

in nickels and dimes, please.

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Feb 25, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

BJ Surfhoff comes to mind with all the crying and what not

although that was a trade and may have been prior to mussina leaving.

Another way of thinking about this is, how many, if any, compensatory draft picks have the Orioles had in the last 10 years/ever?

by brek on Feb 25, 2011 4:35 PM EST reply actions  

oh, and having now looked him up on BR

apparently he wasn’t as good as I remember him being either

by brek on Feb 25, 2011 4:36 PM EST up reply actions  

a couple...

mike fontenot was the mussina picl and ryan adams was the b.j. ryan pick.

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Feb 25, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Mussina in a landslide. Bedard would be next, but I agree it is a bit different ...

… when a guy leaves in a trade. I wouldn’t count Tejada because when he was traded it felt more like a relief than a loss.

BJ Ryan, but he had what, 1 or 2 good years before injury limited him after he left. Surhoff played only 1 more season I think, after he left. Conine might make the list if we wanted to fill it out to 4 or 5 names.

In summary, you have hit one of the sore spots of being an O’s fan. We haven’t had star players in some time. As I’ve stated before, it is the curse of Eddie Murray. Had we not insulted the man’s pride (on the part of both the organization and thge fans) and basically forced a trade, Baltimore would be neck and neck with the Yankees for titles.

While democracy must have its organization and controls, its vital breath is individual liberty.
- Charles Evans Hughes

by timg56 on Feb 25, 2011 4:43 PM EST reply actions  

Mussina easily

for someone leaving on their own.

  As for the trade route that would easily be, for myself, the Glenn Davis trade. I remember rumors floating around that other teams were interested in Schilling or Harnisch as part of any deal the Orioles were looking to make at the time and it never occured to me that they would deal Finley. To imagine that they would package all three together was a shock and a kick in the gonads.

I realize at the time Schilling and Finley were still raw, but the scouting reports were promising and they were exciting to watch the few times I got to see them. Schilling was considered by some as a steal for the O’s in the Boddicker trade where we also got Brady Anderson. Harnisch was actually the best player of the three at the time of the trade. I was one of the few at the time that hated this trade, not because of Glenn Davis but that we traded away three young players with such potential.

A shame, I had always liked Roland Hemond, too.

by Mike Uhrich on Feb 25, 2011 5:33 PM EST reply actions  

definitely mussina

and alomar and palmeiro before that. i was actually glad we traded tejada and bedard b/c i was ready for rebuilding. i wanted them to trade roberts, too, although i’d’ve missed him more. i didn’t care much about bj ryan, so meh when he left for beaucoup bucks.

"I have spent most of the day putting in a comma and the rest of the day taking it out." --Oscar Wilde

A Crocodile Never Cries (a story)

by Luke E on Feb 25, 2011 6:33 PM EST reply actions  

Facts are what they are.

How can any one of significance leave a team when you as a team do not have those particular individuals to leave. Mussina was the last. Bedard was traded and until the lost player (Patton) gets his feet on the ground in the majors this trade may be a draw or a gain instead of a loss.
It was not the ineptitude of the front office to retain “Key Players” it was their ineptitude to acquire them in the first place.

by thezeroes on Feb 25, 2011 7:28 PM EST reply actions  

Troy Patton came from the Tejada trade

"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower

by daveh873 on Feb 25, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions  

i don't think it's a stretch to say...

the orioles have gotten more value out of the tejada and bedard trades than their trade partners did. i don’t think it’s even close.

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Feb 25, 2011 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, that's the entire point

They don't have to be good. They just have to be there. - EME

by Stacey on Feb 26, 2011 8:58 AM EST up reply actions  

When you got nothing...

…you got nothing to lose.

The game ball. Thanks. Roger. I'll put this with my collection of personal achievements. I mean, not right next to the good shit, but still.

by Jonny Pops on Feb 25, 2011 9:56 PM EST reply actions  

welcome to last year

trumped only by tejada and atkins. those are some subtractions by addition. new math.

"I have spent most of the day putting in a comma and the rest of the day taking it out." --Oscar Wilde

A Crocodile Never Cries (a story)

by Luke E on Feb 25, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Its easy to look back though and say "what a bad signing"

But I liked the chance of atkins and the character of tejada along with and innings eater in millwood. Am I glad they are gone however? You better believe it.

Does anyone else see any symmetry between atkins and reynolds? Luckily reynolds is younger, more consistent (both good and bad), and didnt hit on a field higher than michael phelps but I still see some common things about them.

You cant spell POOP without O's

by matman008 on Feb 25, 2011 11:27 PM EST up reply actions  

such as?

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Feb 25, 2011 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess its not so much quantitative but,

the chances and talk of possible high expectations, the position (original anyway), him coming in and assuming he could be one of our better homerun threats.

You cant spell POOP without O's

by matman008 on Feb 25, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

The only symmetry I see is that they both played 3rd Base in the NL West

For teams that are named after states.

"'And worse I may be yet. The worst is not so long as we can say 'This is the worst.'"

by Rube on Feb 26, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

Jack Cust.

We certainly weren’t alone in not keeping the guy around; Arizona and Colorado passed on him before us, and then San Diego bizarrely kept him in the minors when he was OPSing over 1.000 his age 27 season. But he put up a 129 OPS+ in his cup of coffee in 2004 and then we sent him back to the minors and let him walk. Why? Batting average. He never hit .300. Sure, his IsoD was around .100 but you know the people who were running the franchise at the time.

He wouldn’t have made those teams contenders, probably, but he might have made 2005 a bit more tolerable after what happened, happened. Hard to say. Still a mistake to waste his early prime the way we and others did.

by ripkenis8 on Feb 26, 2011 2:43 AM EST reply actions  

And sure, defense is important and Cust doesn't have much...

…but our DH in 2004 was David Newhan. In 2005 it was Jay Gibbons.

by ripkenis8 on Feb 26, 2011 2:44 AM EST reply actions  

Ownership Stunk

The great demise of the Orioles happened under Peter Angelos, his absolutely lame decisions and lack of baseball smarts in any form. It only took 17 years for him to figure out he had no idea what to do. Players became apathetic under apathetic management, fans became apathetic, the whole thing was pittiful… brilliant signings of free agent stars that never played, and letting Mike Mussina — an obvious franchise player — stroll away. I do think that talent has finally revived a bit within the system, which is — much as I remember — the reason for the Orioles Way and the success had before Angelos. Roberts, Markakis, Weiters, and a slew of pitching talent have come to maturity… and finally there was a realization you have to keep what you have and add to it.

In blaming Angelos, I am not alone… On June 26, 2010, Bleacher Report named Angelos the 6th worst owner in sports history. In May 2009, a Sports Illustrated article reviewing owners of Major League Baseball franchises rated Angelos as the worst owner in the Major Leagues.

What turned it around? Andy MacPhail, and Angelos finally having the sense to get his fat head out of the way.

The funny thing I see is that with the monumental enhancement of the team and the great turn around at the end of 2010, that so many are looking to break 500! I think this team is destined to be a LOT better than people think. Set the hopes a bit higher than 500, and while not committing to 162-0 season, you can start with the grand desire to actually compete in the best division in baseball. Look at the lineup. Look at the bullpen. Look at the rotation. There is enough here to be optimistic about.

The key loss in those players was Wiggy. He would have been a backup.

by Richard Lynch on Feb 26, 2011 10:59 AM EST reply actions  

the fall of the Orioles began before Angelos took over

our minor league system has sucked since Cal left it.

by brek on Feb 26, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

One piece of friendly advice

If your lone piece of statistical data is a ranking on Bleacher Report, well, the responses here are bound to be filled with ridicule. Bleacher Report isn’t worth the paper it isn’t printed on.

"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter

by duck on Feb 26, 2011 9:45 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

No Fear of Rebuttle

I know it was long, but if you read the whole thing, there is also mention of Sports Illustrated. Neither is meant as ‘proof’ but as support of the simplest kind. But if you are of the humor that you want to believe Angelos has been anything but a drain and the ruination of the franchise, you are entitled to that opinion. Obviously I think it is ill-founded. If your only proof of the contrary is trying to defame one of my sources with a purposely errant read, you are not proving the opposite but doing the purely academic refutation — which is NOT a proof to the contrary.

You can all do your best to point out why Angelos has been a brilliant owner… I think the exercise will make the point. He should never have been allowed near baseball.

by Richard Lynch on Feb 27, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with you that Angelos has been a terrible owner

However, as brek pointed out, the Orioles were in trouble long before he arrived.

They don't have to be good. They just have to be there. - EME

by Stacey on Feb 27, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Also
You can all do your best to point out why Angelos has been a brilliant owner

That’s a total straw man. Someone who disputes your assertion of “the great demise” under PA is not automatically making a case for him as “a brilliant owner.” There’s a lot of room in between the two.

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Feb 28, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions  

maybe my years are off, but I think not...

angelos bought in 1993. After, in 1996 and 1997, with stuff that was leftover from before him, D. Johnson took the Orioles to the post season, and then because he didn’t win got fired. It is terribly brilliant to fire the manager of the year… Thanks peter.

It is fine to say they were in trouble, but they were still a winning team — or at least a team with the capacity to win. Sure there were a few bad years before that, but it takes YEARS to depleat a team. Looks like 5 was enough.

by Richard Lynch on Feb 27, 2011 12:54 PM EST reply actions  

with stuff that was leftover before him?

Ahahaha, seriously? Maybe you don’t follow the Orioles too closely.

1996-1997 is the one period in his history with the team that Angelos opened up his wallet and tried to compete with the Yankees. Perhaps you’re unaware, but Roberto Alomar, Raphael Palmeiro, BJ Surhoff, Bobby Bonilla, David Wells, Jimmy Key, Eric Davis, and Randy Myers were all integral to the O’s two postseason runs, and they were all new additions (via trade or free agency) after Angelos bought the team. Furthermore, they were all considered near or at the top of their game (Myers and Alomar especially), and thus among the most coveted pickups in the sport.

I am not remotely making a case for Angelos as “a brilliant owner”, but your assertion that the pennant runs were with “stuff that was leftover from before him” is laughable.

In fact, it is precisely because of this period that some folks (myself included) see Angelos as a horrible owner but with some redeemable points. For a few years, he did some good things for the team and for baseball overall: spent money on premiere acquisitions, made overtures to Cuba, refused to field a replacement team during the threatened strike of ’94 (the only owner to do so).

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott

by zknower on Feb 28, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

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