Let's talk about closers
by punkrawka on Mar 17, 2011 6:45 AM EDT
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PrintGoing into 2011, the Orioles have three legitimate contenders to serve as the team's closer. This is a spring training battle that has been oft-discussed in various Open Threads, but little official news seems to have dribbled out of camp on the subject.
Let's examine our options, shall we?
Mike Gonzalez was signed as the team's presumptive closer heading into the 2010 season, and quickly earned himself the scorn of O's fans everywhere by routinely self-immolating on the mound for a couple weeks and then hitting the DL with a previously-undisclosed injury. In retrospect, this shouldn't have been a tremendous shock, as the dude has some scary mechanics and hasn't played a full season without hitting the DL, besides 2009. Even heading into 2011, on paper, Gonzalez would seem to be the front-runner, with the highest ERA+ and K/9 of any of our closer possibilities. But paper is not reality, and Gonzalez probably has a lot of goodwill to re-establish.
Koji Uehara became the O's closer nearly by default last year, but acquitted himself well in the role. The obvious issue with Koji is that he is quite the delicate flower. Even in Spring Training, he has already started to battle nagging elbow issues that have plagued him since his arrival in Baltimore. And at age 35, I don't think anyone's expecting a full season from Koji right now. When healthy, Koji has been effective, with the highest K/BB ratio of any of our potential closers.
Kevin Gregg was signed this offseason, seemingly to hedge our bets on the two guys above. In a very un-MacPhail-like signing, Gregg was seemingly acquired for his 122 career saves, to include 37 just last year. But almost all of Gregg's peripheral stats are worse than Gonzalez, Uehara and even Jim Johnson (who has proven that he can't close and is not in this discussion).
Oh yeah, and there's Alfredo Simon. Hahahahahaha.
If I had my druthers, I'd move Uehara back down the bullpen and try to turn him back into most than a one-inning guy. Ideally, our starters go at least six innings most nights, and that's where he takes over when we have the lead. From there, JJ should take over in the eighth inning, and Gregg and Gonzalez should share time based on lefty/right splits. I think Buck Showalter has shown himself to be relatively unattached to the "closer" label, but for the most part teams do need one, and I think one will shake out by May, either due to injury or (lack of) performance. Essentially I think the season should open as a continuation of the Spring Training battle for closer.
What do you think?
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I don't think why there's no line break between the Gonzo and Koji paragraphs.
The HTML view shows one. Can anyone help?
Looks fine to me.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -- Earl Weaver
Sometimes the HTML on SBN can be shoddy
It’s not too bad, I didn’t even notice it.
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
by John Stephens on Mar 17, 2011 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm seeing the line break...
…and this is a great FanPost. Links to names, and a poll, even! Thanks for putting int he effort.
I voted “closer by committee.” I don’t see the need to annoint someone, and would actually prefer Buck you his best pitcher in the most important inning, not arbitrarily in the 9th. Not that that will ever happen…..
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and a little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Koji has earned the right to close
until he goes on the DL (2 weeks or so?)
"It's exciting to win two games in a row"
- Jay Gibbons
Hopefully it's a little longer than that...
But probably inevitable.
Still, I want no part of Gregg, and I refuse to be nice about Gonzo because of the first week of last season. Koji it is!
"You can always tell Yankees fans by the total vacancy which occupies the space where most other people have faces." - J. K. O'Toole (paraphrased)
by Eat More Esskay on Mar 17, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
I think both Koji and Gonzo are better pitchers than Gregg
And while I know that you’re supposed to pick the best person to be the closer because saves are so important(!) I don’t mind the idea of letting Gregg close down a three run lead in the 9th because it allows Buck to use Gonzo and Koji in higher leverage situations.
But if we’re just going with who I think would be the most effective in the 9th inning overall, I voted for Gonzalez. Better than Gregg, (slightly) more likely to be healthy than Koji.
They don't have to be good. They just have to be there. - EME
Echoing Stacey, let Gregg have the 9th for all I care
But use the better pitcher (i.e. KOJI! or Marlboro Man or old-younger JJ) for the higher leverage situations that can occur in the 7th or 8th innings.
But my vote went for KOJI!
"Duff Gardens, HURRAH!"
If Buck uses our relievers correctly
it ultimately won’t matter much who gets the 9th, because they’ll always come in with a lead and bases empty to start the inning. :)
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
frankly...
worse comes to worse, accardo has closer cred, too and jj has been used as a closer w/, uh, mixed results. i think he could work if need be. i love koji the most out of our name brand closer options, but, as we saw last year, a control pitcher that tends towards fly balls is going to let some leave the yard.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
"This is our concern, Dude."
"Duff Gardens, HURRAH!"
by PBR me ASAP! on Mar 17, 2011 8:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I still don't think I've forgiven Gonzo for his start to 2010
I voted committee because of the various inconsistencies listed in the post. Let someone earn it before it is just gifted
"It’s easy to lie with statistics, but it’s easier to lie without them." -Fred Mosteller
I voted from the gut
Something about Koji’s presence and the way he went at hitters in the 9th last year made me feel the best about our chances to win the game.
I know that’s goofy. Putting the most effective pitcher in the tightest spot and forgetting about the inning number is what makes sense. But for the moment buying into the psychology bs about the 9th inning and the need for that certain ‘make up,’ Koji seemed to have it.
Like a bad, suave dude. You know what I'm sayin'. COOL. SC 7/24/08
I don't particularly care who is the closer
although I would lean toward Gonzalez, but I definitely don’t think we should try to make Koji into a more than one inning kind of guy. Delicate flower and all…
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
The closer's time has passed
With the exception of the truly great (Nathan, Rivera), I really don’t think that there should be rigidly defined roles in a bullpen. Labeling someone as long relief or middle relief is fine, but once a pitcher becomes set in a seventh/ eighth/ ninth inning mindset, it’s hard to change (I think that this was part of JJ’s closing troubles last year).
Buck should go with situational matchups, whether we need a K or GIDP against a lefty or a righty, etc.
A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."- Douglas Adams
wait up...
you don’t think gregg is truly great?
fie on you, sir.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Mar 17, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Ah.. Kevin...
No.
A learning experience is one of those things that say, "You know that thing you just did? Don't do that."- Douglas Adams
by J(O's)elskIL on Mar 17, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Couldn't agree more.
There’s enough mindless rigidity based on tradition and ego already in baseball. We should take flexibility to fit the situation at hand whenever we can.
The game ball. Thanks. Roger. I'll put this with my collection of personal achievements. I mean, not right next to the good shit, but still.
Buck did what we want last year
Use his best relievers in his highest leverage situations. I don’t see a reason he doesn’t continue this year.
"Don't be intimidated by other teams. You guys got bubble gum cards, too. Let's go." - Buck Showalter
On Kevin Gregg
I still can’t believe we signed this fucking guy and that he’s even in our bullpen, let alone in the closer conversation. He’s the opposite of the dependable guy you want coming in late in games with those walk numbers. Remember Daniel Cabrera’s last season in the Orange & Black? Well Kevin Gregg walked batters at a higher rate last season than Danny did in ’08. I would consign him, at best, to the role of third backup after Koji and Gonzalez are both out of commission – Earl forbid.
But to start the year off I think a situational split between Koji and Gonzalez could prove both effective and make for less wear and tear on both of them. Win-win.
The game ball. Thanks. Roger. I'll put this with my collection of personal achievements. I mean, not right next to the good shit, but still.
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