Orioles 2011 Draft Review Part One: Rounds 1-5
Going into the 2011 Rule IV draft, the Orioles had several important goals. The first was to add star-caliber talent to a team starved for it both at the major league level and in the minors. The second was to repair a minor league system that has fallen behind most of the other teams in the majors. The third was to keep pace with their AL East competition - a difficult task considering that three of the four clubs in the division were armed with a multitude of compensation picks, allowing them to select a wider variety of the top amateur talents in the country.
The O's had only one major advantage in this: they possessed the fourth overall pick, and would pick fourth in every subsequent round. Let's take a look at how they used their picks to achieve their goals.
I generally divide the draft into three sections: rounds 1-5, rounds 6-12, and the remainder of the draft. The top five rounds should provide you with quality players who qualify as prospects immediately. Rounds 6-12 should all have potential to be quality prospects and at least one tool that projects as plus for the majors. After round 12, however, the only legitimate prospects are significant signability risks requiring significantly overslot deals; the rest are organizational players. We will begin with the first five rounds.
1st Round (4th overall): Dylan Bundy, RHP, Oklahoma HS - Well, the O's needed to add a star-caliber talent, and despite last minute rumors that they might go another direction, they went with the expected player in Bundy. Bundy fits the description of star-caliber to a T; he has elite velocity, a strong four pitch mix, and is extremely advanced for a prep pitcher. He also rates highly on intangibles, a notorious workout warrior who ranks second in the class only to Trevor Bauer in terms of his work ethic and approach to the game. With the fourth pick, the Orioles managed to draft the pitcher who ranked highest on most draft boards, and ranked second to only Rice's Anthony Rendon in terms of upside according to the majority of evaluators. Bundy's only real drawback is a lack of prototypical size and projectibility, but with a high 90s fastball already, projection is pretty much moot. And while signability is a factor, all the elite talents are bound to be very expensive, and Bundy's stated desire to play with his brother Bobby and his familiarity with the organization are advantages for the team.The only real question about this pick exists because Rendon remained on the board when the O's picked. Those of us who are obsessed with the draft will likely link Bundy's career to Rendon's for years, in a similar fashion to how Brian Matusz and Justin Smoak are linked in the minds of some O's fans. Generally speaking, I believe that one should favor position players over pitchers in the draft, and my own board reflected this: I ranked only Rendon above Bundy. But I also think that it was awfully close between the two, that one should take the player who wants to play for your team, and that one should take the player who is healthy above the one whose health is in question. The O's achieved everything they needed to with this pick, and got one of the draft's top two talents with the fourth pick. Huge win.
2nd Round (64th overall): Jason Esposito, 3b, Vanderbilt - After selecting a pitcher in the first round, I was certain that Joe Jordan would select a hitter in the second. What I didn't expect was Esposito; Jordan strongly favors athletes, and Esposito isn't a great athlete. A below average runner whose thick lower body forced a move from short to third, Esposito's calling card is his power, another tool that Jordan has rarely gone for in the top of the draft. But Esposito is still an excellent pick in this spot and fills a strong need in the O's system. He has good hands and a plus arm, and should have no trouble sticking at third and being an above average defender there, despite lacking great range. He has sufficient power to hit 20+ home runs in the bigs, and could add more, and should be a solid hitter as well. He doesn't have great plate discipline (a skill that Jordan tends to undervalue in his draftees) but while he doesn't walk a ton, he also doesn't strike out much, with a 35/34 K/BB ratio as a sophomore. And while he didn't set the world on fire with wood bats at the Cape, he was respectable and showed that his talents aren't a mirage of metal bats.
Esposito still struggles somewhat with his swing mechanics, which is what held him back from being a first round candidate. But if the Orioles can clean up his swing, he projects to be a plus third baseman who at his peak could make a few All Star games, although his lack of plus plate discipline will likely hold him back from ever being elite. Still, the Orioles got good value here, picking up a supplemental round talent in the second round, and filled a strong organizational need as well. Esposito also compares favorably for the O's to the other hitters selected in the second round, largely raw and toolsy prep outfielders like Granden Goetzman, Charlie Tilson, and Williams Jerez. Most of the top catching prospects were also selected in this round, but Esposito is a much better fit for our system needs. Esposito is a Scott Boras client, so he will be expensive and won't sign quickly, but will almost certainly sign as a college junior in this draft position. Look for him late in the season at Aberdeen, where he will begin his competition with Jonathan Schoop to be the O's third baseman of the future.
3rd Round (94th overall): Mike Wright, RHP, East Carolina - Wright is a big presence on the mound at 6'5" and has a big fastball to match. Sitting in the mid 90s and topping out at 97 with good movement, it is a plus pitch, and he has the frame to add bulk and velocity in the future as well. But it is the only pitch Wright has that is even average, which prevented him from being a starter at ECU until this past season. With improvement to his secondary pitches, Wright could be a mid-rotation starter, but most evaluators have him pegged for the back end of a bullpen, which is far more likely to be his home, and considering the O's player development history, he could end up there sooner rather than later.
Wright has upside, but is much more of a value pick than an upside pick. Wright is in some ways the opposite of last year's third rounder Dan Klein; Klein has a starters arsenal but durability issues that have kept him in the pen, while Wright has a reliever's arsenal but has the durability to start. He should sign quickly and move quickly if used in the pen. As for the wisdom of his selection in this spot, I am torn. He lacks the question marks that surround the other top pitchers selected in the round, such as Bryan Brickhouse, Matt Purke and John Stilson, but he cannot match their upside. A good argument can be made for taking a higher upside player who may not be signable in this round, as it is the last round where picks are protected. At the same time, Wright has a much higher probability of being a useful Major Leaguer than any of those three, and the Orioles under Jordan have not shown a tendency to take high upside players in the third, so it wasn't to be expected. Ultimately, I favor several of the bats selected in this round - Conner Barron, B.A. Vollmuth, Aaron Westlake, Ricky Oropesa and Johnny Eierman - above Wright; several of those names I felt were second round talents, and Barron and Eierman in particular fit the mold of a Jordan draftee. But Wright still is a quality prospect and a solid addition to the O's system.
4th Round (125th Overall): RHP Kyle Simon, University of Arizona - Simon was the second consecutive 6'5" right hander selected by the Orioles, and like Wright, he profiles best in a major league bullpen. Simon throws from a low 3/4 arm slot, nearly a sidearm. This means that he lacks the velocity that someone of his size might have, throwing only in the low 90s. But it also means that he gets plus movement on his pitches and lots of ground balls. Simon is mostly a fastball/slider pitcher, and with work his slider projects as a plus pitch. But his delivery and average changeup make it hard to project him as more than a back end starter or seventh inning reliever.
The fourth round saw some of college baseball's top closers go off the board, notably Tony Zych and Noe Ramirez. Both are higher upside arms than Simon with equal probability, but Simon has more of a chance to start than either. Had the Orioles gone in a different direction in the third round, I would have favored them, Zych in particular, over Simon (and to some degree do anyway). But Simon does represent value in his draft position, and if you have more faith than I do about his ability to start given his arm slot, he represents good value.
5th Round (155th Overall): LHP Matt Taylor, Middle Georgia CC - Taylor, a projectible junior college arm who was scheduled to play for the Georgia Bulldogs next season has already signed, which is a bit of a surprise considering he was expected to command over slot money in this position. At 6'1" and 185 pounds, he has some projection, but not a ton, and his 90-92 mph fastball probably won't see significant improvement. But as a lefty, he doesn't need tons of velocity, and both his four and two seam fastballs have strong sink. His curve flashes plus, but his command and changeup are raw even for a JuCo player, and he will not speed through the minors, particularly since he projects better as a starter than in the pen.
Taylor represented good value and upside for the fifth round when he was thought to be a tough sign, and now that the O's have inked him for around slot, the pick looks even better. There were some interesting hitters taken in the fifth, such as Matt Skole and Ryan Wright, but I like the selection of Taylor here, and think that the O's did a very good job scouting him and gauging his demands.
Review of Rounds 1-5 - The first five selections by the O's in the 2011 draft represent an excellent addition to the O's system. Obtaining a prospect of Bundy's caliber with the fourth pick is a coup, and easily fulfills the first of the Orioles' draft goals: to add star potential to their minor leagues. Bundy is a sure top 100 prospect next season and probably top 50 even if he doesn't throw a pro pitch this season, and has the potential to be one of baseball's most dominant pitchers. Esposito also has the potential to become a top prospect and shouldn't have been available at his draft position. It isn't hard to imagine a future where Esposito partners with Machado on the left side of the infield of an Orioles playoff contender. Both players fit our needs and were either the best player available or close to it.
The group of Wright, Simon and Taylor is less impressive, but not disappointing either. Each of the three has present value while also having at least some upside, and all three should be easily signable (particularly since Taylor already turned out to be). Their probability is pretty good, particularly for their draft position, and this goes a long way towards achieving the second goal of the Orioles' draft: they help repair our depleted minor league system. All three should be expected to play full season ball in 2012, meaning we should see fewer appearances by probable minor league lifers in Delmarva and Frederick than we are seeing at present.
What the Orioles didn't manage to achieve in the first five rounds was much parity with the classes of the Red Sox, Rays, and Jays. These teams managed to stock their already stronger minor league systems with numerous picks, and the O's were almost bound to struggle to keep pace. While Bundy is a much better prospect than anyone selected by those teams, all three managed to draft prospects with very high upside who fell for various reasons due to their high number of picks. The Red Sox drafted prospects with mid first round talent in Matt Barnes, Blake Swihart, and Jackie Bradley Jr.; the Rays landed Taylor Guerreri, who was the third best prep righty after Bundy and Archie Bradley, along with Mikie Mahtook who might have been a top ten pick in most drafts; the Blue Jays drafted signable players with their first few picks after Tyler Beede, but then grabbed Kevin Comer, Daniel Norris and John Stilson, who if signed will give the Jays four legitimate first round arms on talent, including the top prep lefty. Bundy's talent alone cannot make up the gap between their classes and ours. The O's could have narrowed this gap some by attaining better balance between value and upside, with their best opportunity to do so in the third round.
But by grabbing quality signable talent in rounds 3-5, the Orioles may have left themselves with the funds to go after more expensive players later in the draft, while getting good value from their more easily signable selections. This has been Jordan's MO in the past, although he has too often let some of those players slip through his fingers even when selected. By taking signable talent, he has also made sure that the Orioles get good value while having the funds to meet Bundy's exorbitant demands. With the continuing attendance problems of the O's, the fact that the O's are in violation of the league's debt service rules, and the increase in the payroll of the major league club, it was not a foregone conclusion that the O's would even select Bundy, nor is it certain that they can afford to once again be among the draft's top spenders, as much as they might need to be. The Tigers, who have historically spent big money on the draft, are an example of a team whose spending was radically cut back this season without much warning to the fans, but the Bundy selection ensured that the same would not be true in Baltimore.
Grade: A-
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WHO ARE YOU AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH JAMES
It's the wanting to know that makes us matter.
by Andrew_G on Jun 13, 2011 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Sigh...
And right now I can honestly say y'all are getting a paycheck for nothing. - Josh Howard
by TerroristFistJab on Jun 13, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Taylor, a projectible junior college arm who was scheduled to play for the Georgia Bulldogs next season has already signed, which is a bit of a surprise considering he was expected to command over slot money in this position.
Did i miss something?
yes.
he signed a slot deal over the weekend.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Jun 13, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
did you check BIRD DROPPINGS?
Felix Pie is a ninja robot sent from the future to make everything adorable.
Five Keys to Watch in Frederick – Camden Depot
“Of interest to me this morning is the fact that Baltimore has announced that they have come to terms with 5th Rounder Matt Taylor (lhp, Middle Georgia Coll.). While it isn’t uncommon for a 5th Rounder to sign this quickly, the fact that Baltimore is inking a JuCo player to a slot deal in the early rounds is solid news.”
Felix Pie is a ninja robot sent from the future to make everything adorable.
I usually skim the headlines, missed in the text (how am I supposed to read all those WORDS?)
I would have expected a somewhat major draft pick signing to warrant more attention.
i think...
both orioles insider and britt made mention in articles i linked in bd, but, honestly, both mentioned it only in passing.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Jun 13, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
It got thrown in as a blurb in some other blog posts.
Here’s one: http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2011/06/orioles_lineup_tonight.html
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Is this the first time James has ever given the O's an A- for anything?
"Thin line 'tween heaven and here." - Bubbles, The Wire
by Eat More Esskay on Jun 13, 2011 2:25 PM EDT reply actions
actually...
i believe andy macphail’s “re-imagining the sweater vest” initiative was awarded an a+.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Jun 13, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Great writeup!
Question for James or anyone else out there:
Is plate discipline something that can never be taught? I mean, if a kid is open to learning and practices like a banshee, shouldn’t he be able to learn to be more selective?
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and a little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Um, how much do banshees actually practice?
Sure, they float around screaming a lot, but do they do vocal exercises? Scales? I thought banshees kinda got along on sheer effort, not technique; volume, not vocal quality.
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
by duck on Jun 13, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
well,
“…where the banshees live, they do live well.”
How much practice would you expect them to do?

"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and a little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
where a man's a man
and the children dance to the pipes of pan
"If you don't like the effect, don't produce the cause."
- George Clinton
I find it extremely hard to believe that someone can’t change their plate approach, either for better or worse.
Damn it feels good to be a contributor, Music City Miracles.
@DPR9
by danielreese05 on Jun 13, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
are there any examples of someone who drastically improved their plate discipline?
Folksy literate type.
Joey Votto has improved this year and has a 55/50 BB/K ration as opposed to a career 225/348, or an average of 56/87 per year.
so it’s a small sample size and all that, but it shows he’s improving.
Damn it feels good to be a contributor, Music City Miracles.
@DPR9
by danielreese05 on Jun 13, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
actually, i was thinking in terms of OBP
Votto had mad on-base skills in the minors.
Folksy literate type.
it also seems
that when a star has a huge breakout year, his OBP and BB/K ratio increase because pitchers are more likely to pitch around them. This isn’t an increase in “plate discipline” as much as pitchers just being more careful.
According to Moneyball, Billy Beane operated under the belief that plate discipline can't be taught.
But it’s been almost a decade since Moneyball. I’m not sure if we have a better idea now of whether or not plate discipline can be taught or if Beane even looks at young players the same way.
note that around the time as Moneyball (the movie) comes out, the A’s are squandering and haven’t made a playoff appearance in 5 years. it’s not like the sabermetric approach doesn’t work, but their execution of the plan is failing right now.
Damn it feels good to be a contributor, Music City Miracles.
@DPR9
by danielreese05 on Jun 13, 2011 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
also true, but it’s not like he’s changed his approach, he’s just whiffed on talent.
Damn it feels good to be a contributor, Music City Miracles.
@DPR9
by danielreese05 on Jun 13, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
He has changed his approach.
Moneyball isn’t about sabermetrics, it’s about exploiting market inefficiencies. The Red Sox use sabermetrics too, but they don’t play Moneyball because they aren’t a low-budget team. When the A’s were great the market inefficiency was OBP and SLG. You’ll never find a better market inefficiency than that, since those two offensive traits correlate most strongly to runs. Other teams caught on and Beane had to look for a different market inefficiency, namely defense. I’m not sure if he’s looking at a different inefficiency now.
I’m not sure if he’s looking at a different inefficiency now.
Used to be the draft… except other teams have caught on.
Folksy literate type.
It was supposed to be defense,
but judging by the Mariners, that didn’t work out too well either.
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
the way I see it is looking at non-traditional stats i.e. not batting average or RBI (two broad examples) and applying them to either a free agent market or a draft in order to find bargains or under-the-radar players that fit the team. such examples being Eric Chavez. Beane also puts emphasis on drafting players out of college as opposed to high school. he cited Scott Kazmir and B.J. Upton as two examples of bad high school draft picks based on their projected ceiling, saying that high school players are nearly impossible to predict.
all in all, this system is set up so that teams w/ small markets can gain an advantage, or at least try to bridge the talent gap, with teams who can simply buy the best players, correct?
Damn it feels good to be a contributor, Music City Miracles.
@DPR9
by danielreese05 on Jun 13, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, that's the essence of Moneyball.
Small market teams like Oakland finding a cheap way to compete with teams like the Yankees or, in their own division, the Angels. He uses metrics to find those bargains, but his use of metrics is no longer unique since most teams do that now. He no longer puts such a strong focus on college players in the draft. Since Moneyball was written he has started drafting high school players more, but I’m not sure if the risk of high school players has gone down or if he was just fine-tuning his drafting method.
Also, side note on Eric Chavez. I remember a part of Moneyball where Beane told Lewis that Chavez will be a good player for a long time…if he stays healthy. That just makes me sad.
he was amazingly good until about 06. lead the league in walks in 04, hit for power, won six gold gloves, yeah we were robbed of a fantastic player before his time was over.
Damn it feels good to be a contributor, Music City Miracles.
@DPR9
by danielreese05 on Jun 13, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Also Eric Chavez' offense took a shit.
"I think we consider too much the luck of the early bird and not enough the bad luck of the early worm." ~ FDR
Well, they rarely do
I mean, you see an improvement in “old player skills” as players get older – they see some improvement in plate discipline and power. But mostly, players are what they are. Players with speed have speed, players with power have power, players with discipline have discipline. Substantial and repeatable improvements in walk rate are rare. Whether or not someone can improve their plate approach doesn’t matter; what matters is that they generally don’t.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I'd imagine it's like most things
There are those that are naturally inclined to have good plate discipline and those that are not. Those that are not can work on it and improve, but they might never get to the point of the guys that have it in their natural skill set.
Felix Pie is a ninja robot sent from the future to make everything adorable.
But can't you get better at recognizing pitches?
I would like to think part of Adam Jones’ surge in offense this year is his ability to lay off stupid curves in the dirt on the outside part of the plate. That’s part of plate discipline, isn’t it?
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
Surge?
I dunno about that. Jones has improved his walk rate (4.7% compared to 3.7% last season), struck out a bit less (17.4% compared to 20.5% last season) and improved his isolated power some (.174 compared to .158). All of these improvements are somewhat marginal and could easily just be a phantom of sample size, and are significantly diminished by the fact that, also in a limited sample, his fielding has actually gotten worse than it was last year.
So, I don’t think there is much of a surge in his offense at all. Indeed, I think he’s pretty much the same guy he was last year. Maybe he’s a tiny bit more selective at the plate, and a bit less likely to swing at breaking balls down and away. But he still isn’t nearly as good as people seem to think, nor do I think he’ll ever be that good. Like Francouer, he will be a tease for his career. But Adam Jones is and always will be simply a slightly above average player, in my opinion. And his crap plate discipline will be the primary reason why.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Has his fielding gotten worse?
Interesting. I would have said it’s gotten better, but I haven’t looked at any numbers.
Felix Pie is a ninja robot sent from the future to make everything adorable.
he’s already been worth nearly twice as much as Francoeur has in his career, I get it, they both have crap plate discipline, but Jones has always been better than Jeff Francouer and most likely always will be.
Damn it feels good to be a contributor, Music City Miracles.
@DPR9
by danielreese05 on Jun 14, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Bear in mind, a huge part of that is because Jones plays center and Frenchy plays right
The difference with the bat isn’t that big – Jones has a career wRC+ of 98 and Francouer has a career wRC+ of 91. But sure, Jones has never had a season as horrible as Frenchy’s 2008 – heck, almost no one has, because no one lets anyone that crappy play in 155 games.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I agree entirely with James
This was an excellent draft. We don’t really know what med data the O’s had on Rendon — after all, Rendon’s medicals scared off four other teams besides the Orioles.
I have concerns about Esposito’s strike-zone judgment, but he represents great value in the second round.
I love the Nicky Delmonico pick in Round 6 if he’s signable.
I don't think they take him at six if they aren't signing him
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I liked the draft, this year
Realistically, if the Orioles could get one star, one position player and a couple relievers who make it to the majors, it has been a fantastic year. I think Bundy can become the ace the pitching staff needs. Esposito and/or Delmonico can certainly become good major leaguers, and the pitching selections should yield a good bullpen arm or two. A good job by Jordan et al.
Delmonico is a big if…he’ll need second round money to be persuaded away from his UGA commitment.
Damn it feels good to be a contributor, Music City Miracles.
@DPR9
by danielreese05 on Jun 13, 2011 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
If it's one thing the O's should have, it's cash for draft picks.
What he’s want, $5 million? We spend that on relievers we won’t even let pitch unless we’re down by 7 runs.
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
if nothing else, this team knows how to spend money in ways that consistently baffle the fan base, I bet they let him walk.
Damn it feels good to be a contributor, Music City Miracles.
@DPR9
by danielreese05 on Jun 13, 2011 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions
James, thanks for the excellent analysis
I have two questions for you. I think that Jordan is on the last year of his contract. Should the Os extend his contract or should the team get someone else?
Second, in light of the prospect haul the Jays, Sox, and Rays achieved this year, is there any hope for the Os anytime soon. It seems that this year’s draft really sealed our doom for years to come.
Two answers (sort of)
1) I don’t know that I can answer this. Too many variables. Is Jordan the best scouting director in baseball? I don’t think so. But you have to have a scouting director who is able to persuade the GM and the owner to follow their lead too. The best scouting director in the world can’t do anything if the owner and GM override them. And while Jordan may not be the best in baseball, he does have the faith of the front office. Further, there has to be evidence that replacing Jordan will result in an upgrade. I don’t see much reason to believe that is true. There are systemic problems with how the Orioles go about acquiring talent at all levels. Changing scouting directors only makes sense if it is part of eliminating those systemic problems.
2) Sure there is hope. The Jays and Rays both didn’t do as much with their picks as they could have either. And while the Sox made the most of theirs, the Sox also obtained all these picks in part because they have used their farm system to acquire major league talent on the verge of free agency. The Sox seal our doom to a degree not because of this draft, but because they have amazing players like Adrian Gonzalez and Carl Crawford. Getting players who are better than they are is a lot harder than it is to get prospects better than Blake Swihart.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Agree on point 1
Although I think the Hobgood pick really hurts his resume. You really can’t screw up on a top 5 pick, and the Jordan has had a lot of opportunities during his tenure in Baltimore. Wieters, Matusz, Machado and Bundy seemed at the time to be wise picks. Hobgood not so much.
Is it fair to use that as criteria to evaluate him? I don’t know. I do like how aggressive Jordan has been in terms of going overslot basically since he got here. He’s picked out some nice picks after the first round as well with guys like Arrieta, Hernandez, Britton and Reimold.
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
While we're talking about minor leaguers
Can anyone explain to me a) why the Orioles would flat-out eliminate two of their short-season league teams, and b) why nobody else has seemed to notice this?
I cannot come up with a single positive reason for a team to cut back on its developmental affiliates. I can only come up with one bad one (more money in Pete’s pockets). Anyone disagree?
The elimination of bluefield was pretty widely discussed here
And it seemed largely irrelevant with the reactivation of the GCL Orioles and the addition of the Aberdeen Ironbirds. Very teams have two rookie-level minor league affiliates and a short-season A team.
GCL and Aberdeen made Bluefield superfluous
High draft picks don’t sign until mid-August – so send them to GCL. If they sign early, send them to Aberdeen. If they’re good enough to play full season, that’s what Delmarva is for.
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
Great analysis!
I am not sure about the ceilings of the college pitchers though. But if the Orioles can keep flipping middle reliever prospects for starters fine then.
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
The O's could stand to develop their own relievers too so they stop buying the Gonzalezes and Greggs of the world.
"Thin line 'tween heaven and here." - Bubbles, The Wire
by Eat More Esskay on Jun 13, 2011 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, their ceilings aren't great
But there aren’t lots of high ceiling players – or at least players with evident high ceilings – who are around at that point in the draft. Tony Zych may have a higher ceiling than Kyle Simon. But it isn’t like Zych is a future megastar or something.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
I guess looking at a kid like Britton,
Did he have a higher ceiling than than Wright when both were drafted? (I really don’t know, I’m really going by what birdman referenced above.)
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
Britton is a strange case
since he randomly figured out his dominant pitch post-draft. I don’t think anybody could have projected that type of ceiling with that unique development.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
sure, accidentally figuring out the pitch is random
but it’s more of a ceiling question. Whether or not Britton ever reaches his ceiling isn’t moot. I guess the debate centers around ceiling than a probability of reaching ceiling. I’m wonder if the Wright and Simon picks had the ceilings of other available guys.
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
And what he's saying ...
… is that Britton wasn’t a “high ceiling” guy because nobody reasonably could have expected that he would develop a pitch he’d never shown, and that the pitch would be a plus pitch that he could command. I mean, obviously he had a reasonably high ceiling because he was a third-round pick, was “projectable” in his build, and had good velocity as a left-handed pitcher and room to fill out, but he was little more than a lefty high schooler with a decent fastball. We got really lucky with Britton. Lucky is good, but you can’t/shouldn’t bank on lucky and at this point – with Matusz, Arrieta, Britton, and hopefully Tillman/Bergesen on board and figuring to produce well for the next five seasons – it made some sense to grab some guys who can get to the big leagues and help out in the bullpen sooner than later. Think of it this way, developing productive bullpen arms gives us money to spend, money that we’ve been dumping (for five-plus years now) into sucking chest wounds that we have called “bullpen relievers” in recent years.
developing relievers
Has there been any research on the best ways to develop relievers? I believe the Orioles intend to go with the Marcum approach to developing Klein into a starter. But I guess I’m not sure that college relievers = major league relievers. I guess I start with the belief that failed starters = relievers, but that could be wrong.
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
But when he was drafted he didn't have the monster pitch that has completely determined his ceiling.
That was my point. Whether he reaches it or not was not part of my comment.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Yes
Britton was a projectible lefty who stood 6’3". No one knew that Britton’s power sinker would turn into what it did, but he was projectible with a good fastball/slider combo who got good movement. He had a higher ceiling, but an equally lower floor.
To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa
Fair enough,
I guess the debate comes down to balancing ceiling and floor. It’s an interesting question because it feels like Jordan really values ceiling at those picks in the draft, if you look at the tools that he seems to favor in the picks of guys like Givens and Avery.
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
Well no.
But EME is exactly right, guys like Simon and Wright (and perhaps Ryan Berry and Brandon Cooney ) at a minimum should make the O’s less needy in the bullpen, and in fairly short order. Hopefully Klein slides gracefully into the 7/8th inning at some point next year, and replaces Gregg forever (both directly, and metaphorically – the idea that it ever is a good idea to give $10 million to a guy who never has been able to throw strikes in his entire career is a terrible one) at some point thereafter. Hopefully guys like Taylor, Trent Howard and Matt Bywater – all of whom should move pretty quickly as relievers – make us never again sign Mike Gonzalez. Developing relievers is pretty important too, and the best relievers are the kinds of fringe 4/5 starters who have 1-2 plus pitches that they can command. So yeah, the picks were somewhat conservative, but we’ll be very grateful to have some of these guys arriving in 2013 and backing up the likes of Matusz, Britton and Arrieta.

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