Tuesday Bird Droppings
by 2632 on Aug 16, 2011 7:46 AM EDT
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Baltimore Orioles Sign Dylan Bundy - MLB Daily Dish
"His bonus will be $4 million and this signing means the Orioles will sign all of their top 10 picks."
A couple of observations from Orioles’ 6-2 win last night - baltimoresun.com
"Orioles Director of Amateur Scouting Joe Jordan said it best in a conference call late last night, when he proclaimed, 'I don't know how the hell it could have been a better day.'"
For the Birds: Orioles Use Breakthrough 7th to Jump Gio, 6-2 - Athletics Nation
"The A's drop to the cellar in a lost season of lossitude." A colorful recap from the mourners of Athletics Nation.
School of Roch: Hardy named AL Player of the Week (and note) - MASN
"Shortstop J.J. Hardy was named the AL's Player of the Week for the period ending on Sunday. It's the first time in his career that he's received the award. Hardy is the first Orioles shortstop to be named Player of the Week since Miguel Tejada in 2006."
J.J. Hardy named AL Player of the Week and the Orioles are still horrible - Birds Watcher
"All of Hardy’s solid numbers went to waste of course, as the Orioles went 2-5 over the past week. Of the 5 losses the Orioles suffered last week 4 came by one run. It is nice to finally have a solid short stop but it is hard to watch this team outside of a few key players."
Baltimore Orioles' Brad Bergesen adjusting to relief role - San Jose Mercury News
"Bergesen was a candidate to start Tuesday against the A's, but the Orioles instead are recalling lefty Brian Matusz for that assignment. There's speculation in the Baltimore media about whether Bergesen, 25, might have found a long-term home in the bullpen."
Has Jim Thome Punched His Hall Of Fame Ticket? - Baseball Nation
"We generally expect our Hall of Famers to have been dominant, MVP-caliber players for at least a few years, and that's just not what Jim Thome's been. On the other hand, we also expect our Hall of Famers to have been worth a great number of wins. According to FanGraphs, Thome's currently sitting at 71 Wins Above Replacement. There's a great cluster of players in the 70-72 range."
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So Rendon signed a ML deal as well
7.2 mil, 4 years. Purke (Washington’s 3rd rounder) got 4 mil. They sure aren’t afraid to spend in Washington.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Oh, Purke's deal is a ML one as well
Craziness. Guess we’ll be seeing all these guys at the same time.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
One might call it a meaningless victory and stocking up on lottery tickets that O's never seem to cash in.
But for as bitter as I’ve been lately, yesterday felt like a good day in Birdland.
BUODs should post at 915.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Yea?
Well, that’s just like your opinion man.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
He's vastly underrated in "Surf's Up"
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
by duck on Aug 16, 2011 10:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
No....its a fact man.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Aug 16, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
All depends on how you read it
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
What's going to be your excuse if they're not up by then, eh?!
"Dyslexia?? It's DCO." - WestcoastO'sfan
No excuse.
I say what I mean and I mean what I say.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Aug 16, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm confused about something
I’m reading about the deals here and if I’m understanding correctly, our second-round pick (Esposito) was paid less than our sixth-round pick (Delmonico). How is this possible? And it was significantly less too.
"Dyslexia?? It's DCO." - WestcoastO'sfan
there are times...
when guys that are viewed as first round talent drop due to signability concerns and the like. i think bobby bundy and arrieta were also both viewed as guys w/ first round potential that dropped due to injury and/or signability concerns and were both given late first round money.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Aug 16, 2011 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions
But why did Esposito settle for that?
Did he know the sixth-round pick was going to be paid more? And does that affect negotiations? (sorry for so many questions, I’m just really curious)
"Dyslexia?? It's DCO." - WestcoastO'sfan
Esposito was a college junior, so he had less leverage.
High school kids have the most leverage, because they can say, “Well, to hell with you, I’ll just go take this full ride to X school. See you in three years.” Their time in college may improve their draft stock or not.
A college junior can turn down a contract but then he’ll just be a college senior, and the next year he’ll have NO leverage. If a senior turns down a contract, you’re either done with baseball or you’re hitting the independent leagues or Japan or something.
"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 16, 2011 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
plus I'm pretty sure the Demon's deal was done after Espo's.
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Aug 16, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
It's a fucking disgrace
that anyone is even debating whether or not Thome should be going to the hall. He should be a first ballot selection hands down. There are seven guys that have hit more homeruns than him in 120ish years of baseball. SEVEN! Give me a freaking break. He has a decent chance at passing Sosa (609) this year, although at his current production it might take another season, and he has an outside shot of catching Griffey (630) if he keeps playing.
Say no to Prince Fielder in 2012.
by Knubles and Bits on Aug 16, 2011 9:24 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I agree completely
But who is saying that? A quick browsing of Google News reveals that USA Today is debating the notion, but USA Today isn’t even a real newspaper. To borrow from Amy Poehler, it’s a hot load of bullshit. Also, I know it’s not a factor much anymore in terms of hall voting, but Jim Thome is truly a class act in every sense of the word. That should mean something.
"Dyslexia?? It's DCO." - WestcoastO'sfan
It was all over the place
around 5 am today. Sportscenter and all over the Internet.
Say no to Prince Fielder in 2012.
by Knubles and Bits on Aug 16, 2011 9:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Fuck ESPN.
If the debate was about Derek Jeter, they would be in total agreement that fabulously-washed-up-hitter-and-never-been-remotely-good-fielder belongs in the hall first ballot. Thome is a much more impressive player on and off the field, and he’s getting this bullshit? Ridiculous.
"Dyslexia?? It's DCO." - WestcoastO'sfan
I agree re: Thome
But consistently above average offense at a defense-first position like SS shouldn’t be under-rated. Maybe not as over-rated as Jeter’s become, but to take it to the opposite extreme isn’t any more justifiable. And just fyi, since the ASB, Jeter’s apparently remembered how to hit.
That being said, I can’t stand that people are throwing around the steroid accusations about Thome. He’s had the same damn body type from his first day as a rookie up to this point, hasn’t been even hinted at in any of the bs reports out there, and no rumors have mentioned his name.
Career .406 wOBA? Career 145 wrc+? Why is this even a discussion?
Also
The last paragraph in Rob Neyer’s article above states that he doesn’t think he’ll get voted in. The poll after the article (do you think Thome deserves to be in the hall of fame) is sitting at 90% yes.
Say no to Prince Fielder in 2012.
by Knubles and Bits on Aug 16, 2011 9:46 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I saw more of the "HOF?" type articles late last night right after he hit the dongs
and this morning it looks like everyone sobered up and generally agree. I didn’t realize he has a .403 career OBP. Which is nice.
And of those 7
a few are potentially “tainted”. He absolutely belongs.
Off-topic: last year my wife took me to Cleveland for a couple games when the Twins were there. One of my favorite memories was the Cleveland fan yelling “Thome … you’re still my homey!!!”. The Cleveland fans cheered for him, even when he won a game in extra innings for the Twins with a homer. They still love him there.
Youth may come and go, but immaturity can last a lifetime.
by Zeke McGeek on Aug 16, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it's really a question.
I think it’s a “question” because Thome is topical due to hitting the 600th HR and so that’s the way to get your traffic right now.
There will be some interesting questions where guys with 500 end up being borderline or out. I bet 600 is an automatic ticket punch still, though.
"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 16, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Is EVERYONE on vacation?
I come back and it’s totally dead. Oh August.
"Dyslexia?? It's DCO." - WestcoastO'sfan
I was wondering what religion she practiced
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
We never did get confirmation of this fact.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Aug 16, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Shinto?
‘Contrairiwise,’ continued Tweedledee, ‘if it was so, it might
be; and if it were so, it would be: but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s
logic.’ — Through the Looking Glass, Lewis Carroll
by TerroristFistJab on Aug 16, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
A feeling of hopelessness has gripped the blog post-trade deadline.
No goals for the rest of the season, no trades to discuss, no prospects to wax poetic about.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 16, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
“DCO’sfan diary entry, August 16th. One: there has been a malfunction in the Plan with devastating results. Two: it seems I am the only person left on Camden Chat”
"Real Orioles don't pout. Real Orioles don't gloat. Real Orioles just win."
by NewYorkOriole on Aug 16, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
You come back to tell us again how you found cooler people than us to hang out with? :P
Also, your people make a good bastardized donut. Kudos.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
I have no fucking idea what a bastardized donut is.
Is it a bagel? And in any case, I did find cool people, but THEY’RE on vacation so I guess I’m stuck with you guys. :P
"Dyslexia?? It's DCO." - WestcoastO'sfan
Stacey told us you'd gone all potty mouth.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
I'm on vacation
nursing a sun burn and a hangover in Martha’s Vineyard. Watching the games via mlb.tv though much to my wife’s annoyance.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
From last night's game recap by A's Nation
Nothing much else happened except Mark Reynolds taking Trystan Magnuson deep in the 9th for a meaningless HR in a meaningless game in a mostly meaningless season of meaningless meaninglessness.
So much win in this sentence.
"Baseball is an island of activity in a sea of statistics." - Anon
Not to be Debbie Downer here ...
But nobody seems to have mentioned how profoundly stupid we were to give a high school pitcher a major league deal, thereby guaranteeing that we will shortchange his development. (Let’s leave alone for a second that we have a really poor track record of developing h/s pitching even when we have SIX years to do it.) I don’t care how naturally talented he is, guaranteeing that any player – let alone a h/s pitcher – will reach the major leagues in three years is a losing bet; that we did so on a h/s pitcher absolutely negates the fact that we got one of the best talents available in the draft. The absolute best-case scenario is that he suffers no notable developmental setbacks or injuries in the next three years and performs moderately well at Frederick, Bowie and Norfolk, and then it takes him 2-3 struggling and inconsistent years at the MLB level to begin to succeed (because he wasn’t allowed to develop in the minor leagues, so he had to continue learning in the major leagues). The best-case scenario is that he takes the Felix Hernandez route of needing three average-at-best developmental years in the big leagues before he breaks through into being a quality MLB starter. That means, of course, that instead of having six productive seasons under team control … we will have three productive seasons of team control. We just will pay MUCH more for those three years than we should be paying. And, again, that is a best-case scenario. Well-done, Orioles. Again, you demonstrate why you are among the worst organizations in all of baseball and why there really is little hope for anyone who has stayed true to you for the past fifteen years. Absolutely outstanding.
The Orioles aren't exactly out on a limb on their own on this one.
Plenty of neutral observers, including ESPN’s Keith Law, think that Bundy is worth a major-league deal and that he’ll be ready when his options run out. I am surprised by it, but come on. It’ll be 2015 before we’re really worrying about this. For today let’s focus on the positive realm of the infinite possibilities, because we know before long reality will intrude and show us all the negative ones.
"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 16, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
It's idiocy at its best.
Perhaps Law is saying that he would have advised Toronto to give the kid a MLB deal, that his opinion is that this kid is the vast, vast exception to the rule that almost nobody is ready for the big leagues in three years – particularly not h/s pitchers – but it is stupid to bet on anybody being the exception to the rule. The reality is that now there is no room for error here (and h/s pitchers require a HUGE room for error), that the Orioles player development in the minor leagues isn’t very good, and that if he suffers any setbacks at all over the next three years we stand to completely lose out on ever getting any productivity at all from him. They could have given him an $8-10mm signing bonus and saved money over time, and guaranteed themselves the ability to develop him properly; as it is, they virtually guaranteed that this kid will not have the developmental time necessary to live up to his potential. It’s a very VERY bad contract and was a very VERY stupid move for the organization. So yeah, it will be 2015 when we are having to talk about this again, and it will be 2015-2017 when we are talking about he’s just not nearly as good as we thought he would be, and if he breaks out in 2017 (at age 24) we’ll be very sad that we don’t have six more years of team control rather than the three we’ll have at that point. This was another profoundly stupid, short-sighted move by your Baltimore Orioles. Effing awesome.
I don't remember hearing about any rule that nobody is ready in 3 years
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?
Give me a list of ten current MLB players who were drafted as high schoolers and were ready in three years.
pshaw, I'm not going to do that
you prove to me unarguably that Bundy won’t be ready in 3 years.
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?
Don't make points that you can't back up, then.
If you’re unwilling to do the research, don’t make the point. Fact of the matter is that very few, if any, high school pitchers are ready in three years – so much so that i spent the last five mins or so trying to come up with a single one, and couldn’t … so banking on Bundy to defy the overwhelming odds is profoundly foolish as a rule, is a stupid organizational move. Disprove me if you think I’m wrong; feel free to do the research, show me exactly how many of MLB’s elite (or even above-average) pitchers were drafted as high schoolers and developed in three years or less. Otherwise, your point is a pretty silly one, isn’t it?
well excuse me
but I want to see proof of your claim that “very few if any high school pitchers are ready in three years”, too, you know.
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?
also
this is probably good fodder for a James front page article. I simply mean that I’m at work, I’m not going to spend what seems like a lot of time right now looking that stuff up. But it’s certainly worth exploring.
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?
i guess you could look at the age distribution of pitchers making their debuts (not that making your debut means that you’re ready, see matt riley). i have a feeling bohknowsos might be right here. many more pitchers make their debuts after age 21.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
Ten is a lot,
but there’s at least Kershaw and Bumgarner. And the burden of proof is on you, not Andrew.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
depending on what your definition of "ready" is
Rick Porcello?
Jason Heyward?
carolina in my mind...
Kershaw, Bumgarner, Beckett.
Porcello (thus far) and Felix Hernandez are guys who were average or worse pitchers for their first couple/few years in the league, while still learning what they should have learned in the minor leagues … part of which, I contend, would have been better-spent in AA ball.
Heyward is an outfielder, so that’s a different discussion altogether. I don’t love rushing h/s position players either, though.
Here's a contrary question for you:
You’re basically saying that if a pitcher is average when first called up, he was rushed. Of high school draftees who stay in the minors for more than 3-4 years, what proportion are significantly above-average (say, FIP- of <85) in their first season or two? Don’t most players need a year or two to adjust to the majors anyway?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
“You’re basically saying that if a pitcher is average when first called up, he was rushed.”
Nope. I’m saying that if a 21 y/o is average for two years or more after being called up, he most likely was rushed – he likely could have benefited from more time in the minor leagues.
Absolutely pitchers need adjustment time; generally, it takes a season and a half or two (150-200 innings for a starter, give or take) before they fairly can be evaluated. For Porcello, that really is the second half of this season. Felix took much longer, he was average at best for three full seasons before it clicked.
Perhaps you guys are right … Maybe Bundy is that exception to the rule, the Bumgarner/Beckett/Kershaw type. Returning to my point, for a second, I really feel like it’s dumb bet that a guy is the exception to the rule.
Wasn't your point, though,
that it’s really bad for us if he takes three years to adjust, rather than what you’re now saying is the average two? Sure, it’d suck to lose a year of control in his prime years, if that’s how things turn out. But we’re not really talking about three years of control of an ace versus six; we’re talking about three versus four, or maybe two versus four, at worst. And it’s not like an extension is already out of the question if we do it early enough (and arguably, some struggles in the majors would make it easier); who knows how long he could be actually end up being an Oriole?
Basically, I get where you’re coming from; I just don’t think it’s nearly as big a deal as your first few posts made it sound.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
That's probably fair.
The fourth option year makes a big difference for me, and if I had been better-informed I likely wouldn’t have phrased it quite the way i did in those first few posts.
If the kid ends up being an ace at any point in his first six years with the big club, they should be looking at an extension anyhow.
So the “burden of proof” is on me to prove the negative. Riiiiiiiiiiight. His point is that I’m wrong, that plenty of guys succeed within three years of getting drafted out of high school. So I have to list all of the MLB pitchers who were drafted who did not? There are hundreds, if not thousands. Which is exactly my point.
I never said plenty of guys
in fact the only thing I said is that a) Dylan Bundy is not Adam Loewen, which I am 87% sure I can prove, and b) I have never read any proof for a hard and fast rule that high school draftees should not be given major league contracts.
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?
The example I remember from growing up was
Todd Van Poppel. He was a can’t miss kid, dropped from 1 to 14 in the ‘90 draft due to signability concerns, he signed a major league contract out of high school with the A’s. And while he struggled with injuries and development, the A’s were forced to move him to the majors, where he struggled mightily and never lived up to expectations.
I remember everyone using this as an example of why you should never offer a major league contract to a high school pitcher. The better the pitcher, the worse the idea because you are gambling with more potential if they hit a bump in the road. Of course that was 20 years ago now, and conventional wisdom changes. It seems like teams have been willing to take that risk here in the last couple of years.
I think if someone gets burned, and a new Todd Van Poppel emerges as a player who clearly was ruined by signing a major league contract out of high school, then teams will shy away again for a while. I just hope that Bundy isn’t that guy.
"Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.."
Van Poppel is probably a specious argument re major league contract
He was drafted in ‘90 and pitching for A’s in ’91.
Probably more a case of mismanagement.
Right.
When a kid is walking 6.1 batters per nine innings, he’s not exactly screaming “big league promotion.”
He pitched one game in sept. '91
Then he didn’t pitch again in the show until ’93, when they had to keep him up because he was out of options.
Yes, they mismanaged him, but I remember at the time (and this is a memory of a 12 year old) that most people around baseball blamed the major league contract for forcing him to stick in the majors before he was ready. And for a while, people used him as the example for why you shouldn’t give a major league contract to a high schooler, and until recently, teams generally stuck to that rule.
"Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.."
"We've even heard buzz from some scouts that he's the best high school pitcher they've ever seen."
That’s the kind of rhetorical stuff that kills me. I loved the pick, I’m ecstatic that we got him signed. I think it was dumb to bet on him to defy the odds and move uniquely quickly, to move through the organization without incident or setback, to make it to the major leagues by his 22nd birthday. I guess that’s what I’m saying.
Really you're trying to prove the wrong thing
You need to somehow prove that Dylan Bundy is significantly more likely to have a better major league career with 4 or 5 years of minor league development than with only 3. And to declare so conclusively that its a mistake is almost ludicrous.
That would seem to be an easier point to prove ...
That h/s pitchers generally develop more slowly than polished college pitchers, and that they generally succeed when they have longer to develop. Like Andrew, I don’t have time to do that now … but it’s a good point and worth some research.
they generally succeed when they have longer to develop.
This is largely what I’m disputing. I think its highly likely that a pitcher with Bundy’s profile will be ready by year 4, or never will be.
MANY pitchers still develop after age 22.
just because a high school pitcher isn’t ready by age 22, doesn’t mean you should be ready to stick a fork in him.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
Also … ten isn’t a lot when you consider that there are approximately 150 pitchers who currently are in a MLB rotation, and many more than that who have been drafted over the past 20 years or so. There’s the somewhat-subjective element of what constitutes an above-average pitcher … but the point remains that there are very very few h/s pitchers who develop within three years into an effective MLB starter. Hopefully Bundy is one of those exceptions to the rule … but to go all-in with such poor odds? Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.
There are very few high school pitchers in general that develop at all
and likely do not progess substantially in their 4th or 5th years of minor league ball. To prove the foolishness of Major League deals, you’d need to identify a significant number of high school pitchers who appeared totally unready after 3 years, but took major steps toward a major league career after that.
Not really … I get what you’re saying, but that wouldn’t show it conclusively. High schoolers who have 4-5 years to develop are promoted more slowly, after they have shown success and done the right things at the lower levels. Sending a guy to A-, then to A+, then to AA for a year and a half or two years (if need be), then to AAA for part of a season still is a pretty quick development for a high schooler. Rushing the development is a significant factor.
3 years
If he is not ready in three years he will be awarded a fourth option. Klaw says so. I would link but it is behind a wall. So, three to four years is a pretty reasonable development expectation for Bundy’s talent.
Yeah, there's this, too,
which makes this whole argument rather silly. From Cot’s:
A player may be eligible for a fourth option year if he has been optioned in three seasons but does not yet have five full seasons of professional experience.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
The 4th option year makes it less risky ...
But doesn’t obviate the point in my opinion. If something goes wrong, there’s not much room for error (particularly if he were to get injured). I’m not saying that I expect him to take six years to get to the major leagues (at which point, mind you, he’d still only be 24 years old) … I’m saying that with our development history, I’m wary of committing to getting him there in four.
major setbacks from injuries are accounted for
less than 90 days on the active roster do not burn an option.
I probably should know this ...
and it has been addressed already, but I’m not sure conclusively.
So Bundy was just added to the 40-man today. Doesn’t that mean that we have to burn an option this year?
I’m looking at Cot’s right now … there doesn’t seem to be any exception for a player drafted and assigned to MiL in the same season.
- * * * *
From Cot’s:
When a player is added to the 40-man roster, his club has three "options," or three separate seasons during which the club may to move him to and from the minor leagues without exposing him to other clubs. A player on the 40-man roster playing in the minors is on optional assignment, and within an option season, there is no limit on the number of times a club may demote and recall a player. However, a player optioned to the minor leagues may not be recalled for at least 10 days, unless the club places a Major League player on the disabled list during the 10-day window.
After three options are exhausted, the player is out of options. Beginning with the next season, he must clear waivers before he may be sent to the minors again. See Waivers. Additionally, a player with 5 years of Major League service may not be sent to the minor leagues on an optional assignment without his consent.
Counting option years:
If a player is not sent to the minors during a year, an option is not used.
If a player is on the 40-man roster in spring training but optioned to the minors before the season begins, an option is used.
If a player’s optional assignment(s) to the minors total less than 20 days in one season, an option is not used.
A player may be eligible for a fourth option year if he has been optioned in three seasons but does not yet have five full seasons of professional experience. A full season is defined as being on an active pro roster for at least 90 days in a season. (If a player is put on the disabled list after earning 60 or more days of service in a single season, his time on the DL is counted.) The 90-day requirement means short-season leagues (New-York Penn, Northwest, Pioneer, Appalachian, Gulf Coast, Arizona Rookie, Dominican and Venezuelan Summer Leagues) do not count as full seasons for the purposes of determining eligibility for a fourth option."
I'm reading that the deal starts in 2012,
but they’re required to put him on the roster now. When Matusz signed a major-league deal for ‘09, I assume they had to put him on the 40-man then, but according to Law, we didn’t have to burn an option in ’08 because of the when the contract began.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
That would make sense, by operation of the CBA I would guess. MLB deals aren’t that uncommon, and you wouldn’t think they would make you burn an option in the draft year. We’ll assume that’s the case.
So if the deal starts next year, does that mean he won’t play GCL or short-season for the next few weeks? I wonder if he’s an AFL candidate?
More from Zrebiec:
Because Bundy signed a major league deal, he’ll go directly onto the 40-man roster and be at big league spring training in February. When the Orioles send him to the minors before the 2012 season, he’ll use the first of his three or four options. Once those options are up, the Orioles would have to pass him through waivers to send him to the minor leagues.
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/2011/08/updated_draft_story_with_jorda.html
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
so does that mean the o's won't send to the minors now?
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
Reports have been that he won't pitch for an affiliate this year.
I guess he is on the 40-man now but doesn’t have the option burned til the spring. I’m not sure how that works, but if that’s what Jeff Z says, then that sounds good.
So now we’re talking Bundy has to be ready to be in the bigs for good by Opening Day 2016. I would say if he’s not ready by then he never will be.
"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 16, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. That makes sense.
It seems like we only would burn an option if he pitched for an affiliate this year. And that would be stupid.
But it's the raw, toolsy guys who get that slow development path.
Bundy is not one of those guys. He is also not a guy who gets the “projectability” label. He has the velocity now. He knows the secondary pitches now. He has to learn how to handle professional hitters, but why are you so unwilling to accept that he can do this in the minor leagues between 2012-2014 when the people whose jobs it is to know these things (within the Orioles and without) all believe that he is capable of taking that step in such a short time frame?
"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 16, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
He was pitching against high schoolers last year.
Command is the key, not velocity. Virtually anybody who throws mid-90s can get h/s hitters out, and it doesn’t really matter where they throw it. I know he only walked five batters all year, but h/s kids – even top-tier prep league players – can’t hit Bundy’s “stuff.” So yeah … we can talk all day about whether we believe the reports that he’s as unique and special – more unique and special than virtually anybody to come along in 20 years – but these are the same people who talk every year about people being unique and special.
you also assume that Bundy and all other high school pitchers are equivalent
which I would disagree with. Not that I can say with much enthusiasm that Bundy is better or worse specifically than the average high schooler, but that’s what scouts are for.
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?
This.
Regardless of the general rule, Bundy is considered by most scouts to be one of the most major-league-ready HS pitchers in memory. That spans a long time. He already is an exception to the rule in that respect.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
I guess.
Scouts puff. I tend not to love trusting draft-day puffery more than the general rules of probability.
"We've even heard buzz from some scouts that he's the best high school pitcher they've ever seen."
That’s exactly the kind of rhetoric that scares the everloving snot out of me, that leaks out every kind of year, and why this stuff needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
that's a fair point
out of all of the HS pitchers in recent memory, bundy seems like the only pitcher where a major league contract is a defensible (loewen in comparison isn’t nearly as advanced as bundy from scouting reports at the same age). doesn’t mean i like it though. i’m still not comfortable with giving a big league deal.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
doesn't porcello...
lend to his argument?
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Aug 16, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd say Porcello is a better example of my point.
Over the past two years, he’s showing a WHIP of 1.39 and 1.40, a FIP of 4.31 and 3.97, an xFIP of 4.01 and 4.24. He’s been an average-at-best pitcher for the past two years, although he is showing improvement (which is good for Porcello). I like Porcello a lot and I think he’ll end up being a very good MLB pitcher, but it’s hard to argue that he wasn’t rushed.
What is a more difficult point, I suppose, is how much Porcello would have benefited from another year of MiL time. His MiL stats aren’t even that dominant, and it seems foolish to move a guy so quickly … of course, the Tigers shorted him even another year of development (two years, rather than the three we’re talking about) and are pretty notorious for rushing their players.
well there's that
Porcello pitched one year in the minors. The tigers brought him up. That decision had nothing to do with the contract he signed.
Jim Palmer
He signed with the O’s when he was 18 in 1963 and pitched in his first major league game in 1965 – the rest is history.
The person who introduced Andrew to baseball and the O's
he signed
as an amateur free agent, but he was right out of high school.
The person who introduced Andrew to baseball and the O's
Also
Scotty McGregor – was drafted by the Yankees in 1972 and pitched in his first major league game in 1976 – 4 years.
Though neither of these guys are current players, there is no hard and fast rule that a high school pitcher (or any player for that matter) cannot be ready to play in the majors in 3 or 4 years. And honestly, giving an average player an extra 2 years is not going to make that much of a difference.
The person who introduced Andrew to baseball and the O's
I specified the last twenty years for a reason.
I’d consider going back thirty … but the game (and player development) was very different in 1965 and 1972. Apples and oranges.
well, there are billions of 1st round high school pitchers who aren't "ready" by age 22.
and still have a productive career. i mean let’s look at the current league leaders in WAR among pitchers. Not many of them were ready by 22 but still went on to have good careers. i mean the league leader in WAR is Roy Halladay who at the age of 23 went to the minors to rework his mechanics and came back as the one of the best pitchers in the league.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
billions of high schoolers have been taken in the first round of the MLB draft?
Holy shit…what the hell was I doing with my life?
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Aug 16, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
but this, i think...
was the original point. not that high school pitchers can’t be successful, but the time it takes to develop a high school pitcher makes it silly to offer one a major league deal.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Aug 16, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
oh i agree with that point
i’m disputing the notion that a major league deal is fine because if he’s not ready by age 22, he’ll never be ready.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
I think it's a fair bet that this particular player will be ready to develop as a major leaguer by year 4.
Well enough that I’m just not going to freak out about it.
I don’t expect he will win the Cy Young at age 22.
"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 16, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i think it's hard to make a good case either way
there aren’t many good comps to bundy to make a good educated guess to say he’ll be ready by year 4. at same time, though, high school scouting reports aren’t a reliable source to make this type of projection. but, like i said, if you’re going to give a major league deal to a high school guy, bundy seems like the best fit in recent memory.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
the other thing
is that I hope if bundy puts up an ERA+ of 70 at age 21, people don’t go say, “he’s a BUST, he’ll never develop him, release the hounds!” i’m going to barf if they do.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
and if you want to only look at non-college drafted pitchers
you have roy, james shield, jaime garcia, ervin santana, edwin jackson as examples of guys who needed a bit a more to develop.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
Speaking of Law, from list latest blog entry:
Bundy earned plaudits as perhaps the most major-league ready high school pitcher in memory, and probably would have gone first or second overall if not for the industry bias against shorter right-handed pitchers; for him to come in below Taillon is a feather in Baltimore’s cap.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
List? His. Oy.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
I'm taking all the pundits with a grain of salt
The past few years the buzzword was “once in a generation talent”. The only problem was we’d have several once in a generation talents every year waiting to be drafted or rising in the minors. That particular phrase seems to have waned, and now we have “major league ready players”, or near major league ready.
All I now is Bundy is a pitching prospect and Orioles fans are well aware that TNSTAAPP. Assuming Bundy is destined for the big leagues, I just hope the Orioles don’t suck the competence out of him like they have by yanking around the other young pitchers.
Sure,
but there’s a difference between calling someone something vague, like “once in a generation talent” or “major-league-ready,” and saying that a pitcher is perhaps the most major-league-ready HS pitcher in memory.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
I guess that's kind of my point.
Remember when Tim Beckham was the second coming of Alex Rodriguez?
As far as high school pitchers go
The past few years the buzzword was "once in a generation talent". The only problem was we’d have several once in a generation talents every year waiting to be drafted or rising in the minors.
I can’t remember anyone generating this much buzz. Maybe Porcello is the closest thing.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
its not a guarantee
he’s still got three years of options to develop with, and let’s see what happens in those three years. I’m guessing Adam Loewen is on a lot of people’s minds, but Dylan Bundy isn’t the Las Vegas 52s legend that Loewen is.
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?
Had to do it
If Bundy would have walked away without a major league deal it would have been a major loss. Every single early draft pick signed is a risk, that’s the game. It’s way more palatable to me to spend money this way instead of on late 30’s DHs, and we’ll probably do that again too, but we had to do this, and for now I’m happy.
Absolutely disagree.
They didn’t “have to” do it. You mean to tell me that if they had offered $8-10 million for a non-MLB deal he would have gone to college?
Possibly.
He’s if it was more about leverage the organization had over him, both developmentally, and duration of contract than actual money, then yeah.
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Aug 16, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
No flippin' way.
Add a year or two of college ball – which is wasted time time in terms of what you’re talking about – and risking injury? There’s no chance he turns down $8-10 million. I don’t buy your “possibly” here.
But there's also the possibility the team just wasn't going to give him 8 mill
they weighed the risk of a comically large bonus now vs the chance he doesn’t develop in three years. I’m not saying they made the right choice, but it’s completely plausible that they did.
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Aug 16, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
I wasn't in the room
But I’m more saying we had to sign him and if this is what it took I’m more than happy with that. I don’t know if he would have walked away from an 8-10 mil non major league deal, but he might have.
Ok, you can't imagine it
and I can imagine it, what can I say I worked hard at imagination in kindergarten. I’m not arguing whether a minor league deal would have been better for the o’s. Just saying that IF it took a major league deal to sign him, it was the right call.
Would you have been ok with giving him the extra two million dollars and the minor league deal
and pass on signing Delmonico?
It's not an extra $2 million.
We’re going to end up paying Bundy more in the long run than we would have by giving him even $8 million now, and likely getting fewer years of productivity out of that contract (and yes, herein lies the discussion above). I’m saying that he would have been certifiably crazy to pass on the highest bonus in the draft (which I think was $8.5 million).
So it would have been similarly shortsighted not to sign Delmonico over $ 1.5 or $2 million. I realize that it’s not my money being spent, but investing in the draft is one of the most cost-effective things an organization can do – it’s what good organizations do. I’m glad they got Delmonico signed.
As much as we like to say it, thats not how baseball teams operate
they went into this with a budget. If the options were Bundy with a ML deal + Delmonico, or Bundy without a ML deal, which do you choose?
I choose to call the owner ...
… and tell him he’s an idiot if he won’t spend the extra $1.5 million on Delmonico.
Then I give Bundy the big-league deal and pray to the baseball gods for the next 3-4 years.
But I think it’s a reach to assume that an overall draft budget (and unwillingness to pay him more money for a non-MLB deal) was the reason they gave Bundy the MLB deal. If it leaked that ownership was so shortsighted as to pick $2 million over the possible successful development of an ace-potential draft pick, it would turn a lot of the remaining fans off.
Buuut
Any deal where we have less leverage over him is better for us. When he comes up we can’t jerk him around endlessly like we have with Tillman, and at no point in the development chain can some coach lord over him with a “we won’t promote you unless you change your windup/delivery/diet/training habits” ultimatum. These are good things. With any other organization, maybe they’re bad, but not ours. Do you trust any coach in our system more than this 18-year old and his family when it comes to his development? I certainly don’t. If he’s going to fail, he’s going to fail, it won’t be because he needs more time in our system. Any other system, maybe, but not ours.
And who cares about a 40-man spot? there are four guys on the 25-man I’d happily cut, even without replacement, right now.
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Aug 16, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I would gladly give him Pedro Florimon Jr's 40-man spot.
The report is that the ML deal doesn’t kick in until 2012, so it won’t be until after the offseason that they have to deal with that.
"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 16, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow, I forgot he was still on the 40-man
he could definitely go
@ arlingtonOsFan
By that logic, drafting Bundy was a dumb move; if you can’t develop anybody (and i agree with you to a large extent on that), then you need to take polished college players who you can’t screw up as badly. Giving Rendon a MLB contract isn’t nearly as stupid as giving Bundy one … so by your logic, we should have done that.
I agree with you.
Though I think the front office thinks Bundy has superstar level potential perhaps more than we do, making their decision make more sense.
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Aug 16, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
And as a side point:
Being an O’s fan is an exercise in silver-lining finding and rationalization. Over and over and over and over and over.
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Aug 16, 2011 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
This season has been more like
Looking for a silver lining on the cloud, only to find out that it’s just tinfoil wrapped around shit.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
Looking for a silver lining on the cloud, then realizing the silver lining is a bolt of lightning.
"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 16, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think there's any doubt that he has superstar potential.
I think that they absolutely just made it exponentially less likely that he ever will fulfill it and actually become a superstar, because his development in the minor leagues and success at each level will be shortchanged. He’ll be rushed, he won’t learn the things that a pitcher needs to learn in order to succeed, he won’t have time to adjust to the things that good professional hitters do (better than good high school pitchers) before he is rushed to the next level. As I’m sure you know, development in the minor leagues isn’t about putting up good numbers … Daniel Cabrera put up some decent numbers at times (albeit rarely) in the minor leagues, so did Adam Loewen … it’s about learning the things that it takes to succeed in the major leagues, and refining those things to the point where they are second nature when you get there (so that you can focus on adjusting, and learning more when you do). If you are developmentally behind when you get to the major leagues and you’ve cheated your development by doing the things necessary to get out MiL hitters (that don’t necessarily work against MLB hitters), then “superstar” quickly becomes “struggling” and “struggling” becomes “prolonged struggling.” So yeah, i’m not really willing to engage in the silver-lining finding and rationalization when this is pretty clearly a shortsighted and objectively poor decision.
apples and oranges
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Aug 16, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I absolutely refuse to believe ...
That comparing Dylan Bundy to every other h/s pitcher drafted in the last 20-30 years or so is “apples and oranges.” So I’ll challenge you to do the same thing I asked of Andrew G earlier … give me a list of ten current major league pitchers who were drafted as high schoolers, who made it to the major leagues in three years or less and pitched well when they got there at age-21. Felix Hernandez was the only one I could think of off-hand, and he was an average-at-best pitcher for the first three years of his MLB career.
If you’re saying Bundy to Loewen/Cabrera is “apples and oranges,” then you need to read the post a bit more carefully and see the discrete point I was using them to make.
King Felix signed out of Venezuela.
If you’re looking for some high school-drafted pitchers who were ready to get their big league development under way within three years, you might want to start with Justin Verlander or Josh Beckett.
"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 16, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Verlander was a three-year college pitcher.
So Verlander is “apples and oranges.” He doesn’t work.
Beckett works, so that’s one.
Felix is a decent comp, despite signing out of Ven, because he was the functional equivalent of a h/s draftee … he was 17/18 his first year of pro ball.
leave pedro florimon alone!
he might not be an elite prospect, but a shortstop that can take a walk and has a little pop isn’t a bad thing.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Aug 16, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Fine. Bundy can have Pedro Viola's 40-man spot.
But it looks like he actually got Luis Lebron’s 40-man spot. I am okay with this also.
"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 16, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
not a good sign when there's that much DFA fodder on the roster
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?
I would bet even the Yankees have a bit of DFA fodder on their 40-man.
"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 16, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Like Derek Jeter.
(I had to.)
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
But you probably could have said Jorge Posada and it would have been true.
"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 16, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Question answered:
We just DFA’d Luis Lebron to make room for Bundy.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/08/orioles-designate-luis-lebron-for-assignment.html
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
At least the BJ's didn't get their guy
It seems like a bit of a watershed moment with the draft. All of the new thinking with regards to paying draft picks, especially for small market teams seems to have finally sunk in. The pirates, nats, royals all put their money on the line.
Its nice for those fanbases and even though the O’s also signed all their picks, it feels like we are falling behind the rest of the crappy teams. Those three organizations plus the BJ’s and Rays all have exciting times on the horizon. I guess we have Machado and Bundy. Schoop, I suppose.
Read somewhere that the Jays still pulled in a top 5 class
no one in Toronto is crying too much over losing out on one guy
J. Thome should go into the HoF virtually automatically, of course, but wouldn't it be great if the "controversy" around his criteria
somehow morphed into a re-examination of the genuinely bogus criteria of a number of people already in it, starting with…oh all right.
Anyway, let’s rejoice in the signing of not-Ted, not-McGeorge, not-Bud and unfortunately-not-Kelly Bundy as we stretch this two-game rampage into three.
Sorry, gotta go, only done a page and a half…
Go O’s!
Welcome to the Suck: Narrating the Oriole Fan's Experience 1998-2011
wow, the pirates signed josh bell after everybody said he was unsignable.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
Any chance we can switch him with ours without anyone knowing?
"Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.."
yeah, they had a great deadline day between Bell and Cole
I’m jealous
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?
they basically signed two top 10 talents.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
How'd you like to go through life being called The Other _______ _________?
Well, I s’pose it’s not as bad as being Ozzie Canseco, who is eternally “the twin brother who hit zero HRs.”
Welcome to the Suck: Narrating the Oriole Fan's Experience 1998-2011
Awful pun warning:
Zambrano to Orioles for Brian Roberts: Roberts is owed $2MM more than Z, but he may still have value if his concussion symptons go away. Plus, he was once a target of Hendry’s. However, former Cubs exec Andy MacPhail isn’t expected to be in charge of the O’s this offseason, and in general Zambrano is just a headache compared to whatever Roberts might give them.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/08/unloading-carlos-zambrano.html
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
do it.
b-rob looks like release city anyways. might as well do a “i’ll trade my headache for your headache” trade.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
roberts has some value...
Z has no value… at all… and could be possessed by demons, or at least he acts like it. The only way Z comes here is as FA pickup after being released
Birdland and Buck both start with B... coincidence? I think not.
by Birdland in NC on Aug 16, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
roberts has zero value
see corey koskie, justin morneau. he’s done, done, done. Z pitches with his left arm with not awful results.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
and it's been over a year since his concussion.
AND he’s been handled as gently as you could possibly imagine.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
but he's not nearly as done as Roberts looks
actually Morneau’s back in Minnesota now, gone 2 for 12 with a walk, two doubles, and a K this week
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?
.616 OPS since returning from his concussion in 58 games. get ready to stick a fork in him.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
Yeah
Z pitches with his left arm with not awful results
in the NL. IN the AL, let alone the AL East, he’d give up about a thousand home run a year.
He’s 0-1 in one start against those Orioles with a 13.50 ERA. If he can’t even get them out, how’s he gonna handle the rest of the division?
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 16, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
25 ER in 30.5 IP vs. the AL East
Good for a 7.38 ERA
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 16, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
and who cares
i don’t argue with the fact that he would struggle against the yanks, red sox, and jays. in fact, most people pitchers, even good ones, struggle against these teams.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
good grief
i’m not saying Z is a good pitcher. What’s your point?
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
I dunno
Everyone was arguing so I felt like arguing.
BOO THIS MAN!!!
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 16, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
oh shit, sorry guys, my bad.
i still do a challenge trade though IMO.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
I don't really have an opinion on it
it seems way too ridiculous to consider. Two players that are owed a shit ton of money, one of whom seems like arguably the biggest asshole in the game and the other may never play ever again.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
i really don't care either way
but i prefer Z over B-Rob because Z has some potential upside. Maybe he could be a good LOOGY or reliever. i don’t think B-Rob has any upside. He’s done.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
probably would be hard for him to be a LOOGY
considering he pitches right-handed
carolina in my mind...
lol Birdman is sticking with that lefty thing
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
man, i just finished eating a retard sandwich.
my brain is really out of whack today. i have no clue why my brain insists on seeing Z as a LH. JamesF is probably enjoying the shit out of this.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
That's ok, maybe he'd be a good ROOGY.
But honestly, I rather roster a quadriplegic B-Rob than current-day Zambrano. I’ll always lobe B-Rob. Z will always be a douche. Neither is bringing us a championship anyway.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
see also ryan church and jason bay.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
haha
"I don't have an on-deck circle for ideas. It's just 'Batter up!!' Even though they're bad" - Mike Birbiglia
by Parkinglotninja on Aug 16, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Finally got around to picking up Fallout 3
you can save a ton of money being 2-3 years behind on games and not caring about online play
I think that's rule 24 of the internet
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
did XKCD invent rule 24? or was that around before?
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Aug 16, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Apparently I was wrong
Rule 24 is “You will never have sex”
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
This principle works really well with rock groups, too!
Give ‘em a 5-yr waiting period before investing. ’Course, your students may roll their eyes if they catch you humming sth from 2006… But so what? They roll their eyes anyway when you mention things from ancient history — meaning, say, Gorbachev — and regularly give each other that OMG-he’s-gonna-have-another-flashback look when you mention certain 20th c. cultural or political phenomena.
Punks.
Welcome to the Suck: Narrating the Oriole Fan's Experience 1998-2011
team fortress is free AND online!!
"Initially thought I had BieberFever but turns out I have pneumonia."
-Guts
Wieters then came up with two out in the 2nd and launched a bomb so far to CF they had to set up a triage unit for the wounded in the East Side Club… it clanked off the facing above the batter’s eye as Gio Gonzalez wore a look of disgust reminiscent of someone who’d just seen that pic of Michele Bachmann eating that corn dog at that State Fair.
This is good stuff.
The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).
by birdman on Aug 16, 2011 2:53 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Presidential corn dog eating, presidential!
/steps away from political conversation…
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
That worst-MLB-conglomorate-name thing has been bugging me. Maybe I'll switch my vote to
Asdrubal Uggla.
Jeez, send somebody off to school with that one, poor kid prolly doesn’t come back. Or comes back and asks You couldn’t name me Yuniesky?
Welcome to the Suck: Narrating the Oriole Fan's Experience 1998-2011
Yuniesky Jakubauskas?
Or the worst O’s closer/8th inning reliever frankesntein of all time, Michael Gregg.
Mother, did it need to be so high.
Not to pile on or anything
far from it in fact!
But BillJamesOnline just started a daily pick ’em game where you pick one of the starters on a daily basis who have one of the five worst ERAs going. Tonight, the starter with the worst ERA in baseball is my selection, Brian Matusz.
Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?
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