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Wednesday Bird Droppings

OAKLAND, CA - AUGUST 16:  Matt Wieters #32 of the Baltimore Orioles tags out Cliff Pennington #2 of the Oakland Athletics when Pennington tries to score on a fly out in the second inning at O.co Coliseum on August 16, 2011 in Oakland, California.  (Photo by Ezra Shaw/Getty Images)

Steve Melewski: As it turns out, the Orioles did get the "big three" - MASN
"During a season in which the Orioles have had a lot of bad days, Monday was not among them. And I'm not talking about the win at Oakland. I'm talking about scouting director Joe Jordan signing what I had been calling the "big three." He got Dylan Bundy, Jason Esposito and Nicky Delmonico."

Orioles Insider: Dylan Bundy: 'The plan for me is to get up there in 2013'
Why major league deal was important: "Me and my adviser and my dad, we all thought that we were worth it. We truly believe that I’m going to be up there in 2013 and help the Orioles win some games. We thought that was necessary." -duck

Orioles find positives in Matusz's outing - baltimoresun.com
Wieters: "I thought he was probably a few good changeups away from no runs given up in that game instead of what happened. His fastball had good life, and his breaking stuff was back to being sharp. There are still a lot of positives that he could take out of that game."

Chris Davis Injury: Orioles Slugger Has Shoulder Tear - Baseball Nation
"The good news for the Orioles is that, even though there's a tear, it's small, and repairing it shouldn't be a big deal. The bad news is that there's a tear at all, which means they probably won't get to see more of Davis between now and the end of the season."

Napkin Scratch: To Overslot or Spend on International Free Agents - Camden Depot
"What is a more efficient use of funds: spending more than 500k for players after the tenth round or 500k for an international free agent."

Camden Yards: Still A Field Of Dreams 20 Seasons Later? - PressBox
Mike Devereaux: "I remember Brady Anderson and I just had our jaws dropping when we hit the field. A few of the lights were on. It actually did bring a tear to my eye because this was going to be our home, where we were going to play."

Roberts optimistic about future with O's | orioles.com: News
"I still want to be in an Orioles uniform to see this team end up where we desire to go. And I still believe I'll be an integral part of that in the next two years." -duck

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I'm not even going to read that Camden Depot article

because the obvious answer is both, and just stop spending on “closers” and “proven vets” and “Vlads”.

Ok, I know there’s only one Vlad, but we should stop spending on him too.

"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower

by daveh873 on Aug 17, 2011 8:20 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

but...

what if there ARE more old, decrepit vlads out there?!

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Aug 17, 2011 8:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don;t see why we shouldn't group in

Atkins, Tejada 2.0, heck, even Kevin Millwood. Expensive, old, end of their line veterans who once upon a time were really, really good, brought into the organization because of either a) a determined want of savvy veteraness and/or b) a belief that against all available facts they still had plenty in the tank.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?

by Andrew_G on Aug 17, 2011 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sweet.....we traded Koji for a player who's not only shitty, he's injured too.

Since when is he a “slugger” anyways?

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 8:34 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Sigh.

If only I would learn to expect this from the Orioles…..oh wait…..I did expect this….

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

does it?

i really don’t think so. david hernandez trade sure does, though.

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Aug 17, 2011 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

i'm willing to reserve judgment...

for a few more starts. he didn’t look awful his last start and how long are we going to let pitchers hold the bag while the defense sucks?

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Aug 17, 2011 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

Mark Reynolds has been pretty much a slightly better offensive version of what we thought we were getting. Now, his defense does suck out loud, but I’d argue we got pretty much what we expected to get, if not slightly better.

"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King

by duck on Aug 17, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

i don't disagree that we got we expected offensively...

i think you could even argue he’s surpassed expectations, i’m just asking if on balance it was the right move.

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Aug 17, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

A good bat for two relievers? Yup.

That and the JJ trade were pretty smart. Wish we made more trades like them.

"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King

by duck on Aug 17, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Make him DH or 1B

Problem solved

"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King

by duck on Aug 17, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

Schoop is 1.5-2 years away, minimum, and Josh Bell hasn’t done anything in two years. So who plays third base for us next year and the following?

by BohKnowsOs on Aug 17, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've volunteered in the past

sadly, the campaign never got much traction

by kba26 on Aug 17, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

that's what I thought too

but here’s the problem. Reynolds current wOBA is .340. Among qualified first basemen, that puts him in between Carlos Santana and Mitch Moreland, that is 18th out of 29 guys. Among DHs he’s between Billy Butler and Bobby Abreu (6th out of 11)…and that makes him comparable in value to Hernandez.

That of course assumes both of them can keep up their current pace into the future.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?

by Andrew_G on Aug 17, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I honestly feel like it’s fair to except some of Reynolds’s early struggles as growing pains, attributable to the league change and learning a whole batch of new pitchers. Again, I know that his current slump cuts against that argument (and lends itself more to an argument that he simply is a streaky hitter), but his numbers from May through the present are substantially better … May: .215/.348/.430; June: .299/.450/.662; July: .202/.283/.500. At DH or 1b (without the disastrous defense at third base), that plays a lot more like the 3ish WAR player we thought we were getting.

by BohKnowsOs on Aug 17, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think he can be a 3 win DH

that’s just a really high bar. And first base, I think it’s pretty obviously where he needs to play, but who knows what the defense will look like?

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?

by Andrew_G on Aug 17, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I originally had “2.5-3 WAR” but ended up writing “3ish.”

One good thing, I suppose, is that he and Davis hit from opposite sides of the plate. Potentially, Reynolds could be the primary 1B versus lhp (with Davis sitting), and the primary DH versus RHP. Assuming passable defense at first base, that might actually push his value up a bit. He has a .932 OPS versus lefties over the past three years (Davis, by the way, has a .666 ops versus lefties for his MLB career), so that might end up being the best and most productive lineup. If and when Davis shows more consistency, work him into the lineup as more than a platoon player – he still would be starting roughly 3/4 time anyhow.

(Meanwhile, Reimold DHing against lefties and playing left field versus rhp isn’t a bad option, assuming we have a fourth outfielder who is something more than an automatic out against lhp.)

by BohKnowsOs on Aug 17, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

JJ trade was great

Reynolds was eh. Even if you place the Reynolds trade in the “good” category, you’re still looking at an extremely low “good signings/trades” to “bad signings/trades” ratio. Unacceptably low.

Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 17, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Trades & signings have been two different animals completely under MacPhail

Pretty good on trades, lousy on signings.

"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King

by duck on Aug 17, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

a good DH bat, which diminishes his value.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Any time you can trade a relief pitcher for a starting-quality player ...

you do it. Finding quality relief pitchers isn’t – and shouldn’t be – nearly as difficult or as expensive as we make it.

by BohKnowsOs on Aug 17, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

finding a quality DH shouldn't be difficult.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yet, it has been for us for some time

"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King

by duck on Aug 17, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't even know if that is true.

Hernandez has been outstanding in the Arizona bullpen, and would have been an excellent choice as a closer for us. To that end, we could have invested the $10 million we’re paying Gregg this year and next into something – anything – better and more useful … like a third baseman? I guess Gregg + Reynolds = $10 million, and $10 million could have gotten us a quality third baseman. I don’t really know who that free agent third baseman would have been … Beltre at $15 million/season and around 3.5 WAR doesn’t seem like an awesome fit, but he was the best guy available.

Anyhow, Reynolds has performed pretty well, particularly if you except his abysmal start to the season (and I’m willing to give him a bit of a pass on that because of the league change). Of course, as I say this, he currently is mired in another gawd-awful and soul-killing slump, so I’m finding my defense of him only half-hearted. Anyhow, Reynolds is a pretty decent choice next year as a full-time DH (and back-up first baseman … and emergency third baseman). If used that way, and if we can find someone who can produce (offensively AND defensively) at third base, the Hernandez deal wasn’t a bad one.

The bottom line is that relief pitchers are over-valued, generally (albeit probably not as much so as they were ten years ago … and only by stupid teams like the orioles who throw stupid money at guys like Kevin Gregg), so any time you can get a productive starting player by trading a relief pitcher, you should do the deal and not look back.

Moreover, it shouldn’t be as difficult as we’ve found it to identify and develop quality guys internally … the best relievers are starters who have “good stuff” but who don’t have a good enough third pitch to stick in the rotation. Tillman might even be our next good relief pitcher; Bergesen has shown over the past few weeks that he can be an effective one. I’m hopeful that some of the college kids we drafted in that 5-10 range of the draft will move pretty quickly and be effective bullpen arms for us in a couple of years. Similarly, these kinds of guys (guys like David Pauley – who we had, and who I liked while he was here) are available on the cheap every off-season, and are productive relief pitchers. Spending money on “closers” is stupid, but decent value can be had by spending money on those kinds of fringe starters with two above-average pitches who get a lot of ground balls. Applying a bit of brain power, finding quality relief pitching just shouldn’t be quite the mystery we make it.

So anyhow … I just don’t think that trading David Hernandez really was a bad decision. We got pretty good value for him.

by BohKnowsOs on Aug 17, 2011 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

And Hernandez has been facing the fearsome lineups of the NL West.

That has to have been helping him, and I think a lot of people forget about that when just looking at the stats.

NL West wOBAs:
Giants: .292
Padres: .294
Dodgers: 302
Diamondbacks (doesn’t face, obviously): .322
Rockies: .325

AL East wOBAs:
Rays: .315
Orioles (wouldn’t face): .316
Jays: .325
Red Sox: .350
Yankees: .351

"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver

by Vuff on Aug 17, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

almost EVERYBODY has higher wOBAs against the Red Sox, Yankees, and Jays

If we only keep pitchers who can pitch effectively against these three teams, we might as well go sign 12 Cliff Lees.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those aren't his wOBAs against;

those are the total wOBAs of those teams this year.

"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver

by Vuff on Aug 17, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok

my point still stands. almost every pitcher will do perform at a lower level against the Red Sox, Yankees, and Jays. they have really good offenses unfortunately.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's exactly the point.

DH is facing much weaker offenses where he is now as opposed to B’More.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

of course

and so his performance has been better. but, i’m not saying Vuff is arguing this, to discount DH’s performance as merely a fluke because of his competition is taking it too far. DH’s performance suggests he’s a damn good reliever even when translating his performance for the AL.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right,

but it means that, as far as we’re concerned, he’s not nearly as good as he looks pitching for the Diamondbacks. He’s got an unsustainable 1.6% HR/FB rate and a similarly low .234 BABiP, and he hasn’t cut down on walks or fly balls significantly. And that’s all before you take the difference in offense into account.

Sure, it would be nice to still have him. But realistically, we gave up a league-average-ish reliever. Bring him back here, and he’s probably got an ERA around 4 again – 3.5 at best. Reynolds, meanwhile, is hitting about as well as we expected, and I have to think his true defensive talent is better than what he’s done this year.

"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver

by Vuff on Aug 17, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s got an unsustainable 1.6% HR/FB rate and a similarly low .234 BABiP, and he hasn’t cut down on walks or fly balls significantly.

But these numbers are as a reliever. As a reliever, what he might be able to sustain may be different. More importantly, his SIERA is 3.15 (K-Law seems to be fan of SIERA), which suggest his underlying performance is still good.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

and...

he’s added 2K/9 to his rate from last year. in fact, since being moved to higher leverage situations, he’s only walked 5 and k’d 20 in 17 innings of work w/ no hr allowed (along w/ 8 sv & 6 hld).

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Aug 17, 2011 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really,

because he K’d 10.95 / 9 IP last year as a reliever. And 17 innings? That’s equivalent to maybe a month and a half of hitting data, so it doesn’t mean much.

Look, I’m not saying DH isn’t good, and I’m glad he’s seeing success in Arizona. I’m just saying that’s it not like we gave up a cost-controlled Koji, or even another JJ, here.

"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver

by Vuff on Aug 17, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree with that

i wouldn’t put DH in Koji’s or (2010) JJ’s class in terms of performance, but he’s very close. And DH is much more durable than Koji.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

He'd better raise his K/9 in the NL

He’s facing a bench bat for the pitcher every time through the lineup.

"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King

by duck on Aug 17, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha..

Good point.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

That doesn't really contradict what I'm saying, does it?

If SIERA is pretty accurate, his ERA “should” be a little over 3. Doesn’t it make sense that if he moves from the NL West to the AL East, that would go up by 0.5 – 1 run(s)? And then he’s, at best, a durable, slightly-above-average reliever?

That’s not to say that isn’t valuable when cost-controlled. I just don’t think it’s worth getting too frustrated over when Reynolds is producing the way he is.

"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver

by Vuff on Aug 17, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

no, it doesn't

i’m just saying DH is a good reliever. Maybe 1.2 to 1.5 WARish reliever in the AL. That’s good to me, not great, but good especially considering his cost and years of control.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

yup. reynolds has been a good bat, but give me DH back.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would be even better if it took DH to have MR at DH.

"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11

by Eat More Esskay on Aug 17, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

as long as DH doesn't need any MRIs in order to get MR to DH

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?

by Andrew_G on Aug 17, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

huh?

hunter alone makes it a valuable trade. he’ll easily out WAR Koji in their respective contracts. davis was just a throw in who was an interesting gamble.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't want to talk about this stupid trade anymore

suffice it to say I would not have traded Koji for Hunter straight up.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?

by Andrew_G on Aug 17, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

okey dokie

sorry, if i’ve been a pest about this trade.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

no, it's cool

but I just don’t think there’s anything more for me to add.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?

by Andrew_G on Aug 17, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you're giving him too much credit.

Koji has out-WAR’d Hunter over their careers to date.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Considering that the Hunter has 3 or 4 years of control left before free agency

and Koji has a year of control left. I suspect the Hunter will be a more valuable commodity.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I suspect the Hunter will be a more valuable commodity GOING FORWARD.

which is really how a trade should be evaluated anyways. you don’t trade for past value, you trade for future value.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're assuming that Hunter will keep his current value or improve.

He’s going to be facing tougher offenses now.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

koji would have put up huge WAR season next year and whatever remains of this year to outpace hunter and the rest of his contract

but i’ll tell you what, if you want to make a bet regarding who will out WAR each other, koji and the rest of his contract versus hunter and the rest of his contract, let’s do it.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't bet.

Plus I don’t care. It was still another shitty trade for the Orioles. They had a guy other teams wanted and got likely the minimal return for his services.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

But what is there to suggest that a better deal was available?

Nothing as far as I can tell. So we have to evaluate the trade on what happened. And if do that, the available evidence suggest the O’s did good even without considering Davis. Is that fair?

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

But the available evidence doesn't suggest that.

It only suggests that Hunter might have a slightly greater value over the length of his contract. He needs two seasons to make the WAR that Koji provided. Over three years, he’ll have less than 1 WAR of extra value. If “doing good” means hardly improving your team, then we’re talking about some exceptionally low standards.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

**that Koji provided in one season

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

It only suggests that Hunter might have a slightly greater value over the length of his contract.

and that’s my point. i see whatever davis gives as gravy. and isn’t it fair to see length of service time associated with each player as value?

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you're defining "doing good" as barely getting increased value?

I wouldn’t want you responsible for making trades on a regular basis!

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

no, i define good as getting more value than what you gave up. that is exactly what teh o’s did. why is that a bad baseline to judge a trade?

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

why is that a bad baseline to judge a trade? particularly a losing team.

i can see receiving less overall value if the short term is sensible for a playoff run. koji made sense for rangers in that case.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course it makes sense for Texas.

They gave up next to nothing for a great player. For the Orioles on the other hand, it makes sense only from the fact they gave up an aging player with only 1 year of control for three years each from two AAAA players. As far as the value is concerned, they got nothing.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did they?

Davis is a negative WAR player. He’s got almost the same amount of negative WAR that Hunter has positive. Even at three years with their current value, they don’t make up one year of Koji.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Davis is a negative WAR player.

agree, that’s why he’s interesting throw in. his minor league numbers suggest some upside. if he busts, which would be completely unsurprising, no biggie.

Even at three years with their current value, they don’t make up one year of Koji.

And the available evidence don’t suggest that. If forecast Koji’s value as 2.0 WAR for the reminder of his contract and I forecast Hunter as a .8 WAR player for the reminder of his contract (Hunter was a 1.7 WAR player in 2009, .7 in 2010 so I’ll go with a conservative estimate since it’s the AL East), Hunter will easily out value Koji. Hunter doesn’t reach free agency until 2016 giving him four years of control. That’s 3.2 WAR. 3.2 WAR > 2.0 WAR and this isn’t even considering the injury risk that Koji carries.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

.8 WAR player per year that is for hunter.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm glad that, where this trade is concerned,

all I have to say is that I miss Koji. I don’t want to be bothered to come up with a rational opinion on the topic.

"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver

by Vuff on Aug 17, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Today???

To be understood is to be a prostitute. ~ Fernando Pessoa

by James F on Aug 17, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Roberts

From the article:

“Unfortunately you cannot always control the perception that’s out there,” said Roberts, who has received some backlash from a restless Orioles fan base and was forced to cancel his annual charity event because it was deemed a risk to cause a symptom relapse.

Yeah.. if ‘attending a charity event’ is on the no-go list, I doubt ‘baseball activities’ are anywhere in the near future. Things not looking so good for Mr. Roberts :(

by zsiv on Aug 17, 2011 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I saw that.

I just am amazed any time Roberts or the organization makes any noise about him possibly returning this year. I just think it shouldn’t even be a concern … it’s a lost year, for Brian and for the years. But he still has two years remaining on his contract, and it sure would be nice if he got back on the field for those. When he’s healthy, he’s a very good player, and is so much fun to watch … and he’s a good guy, and despite all of the rumblings of idiot what-have-you-done-for-me-lately “fans,” he is good for the team and has been for a decade. So I just feel like acknowledging the situation for what it is, that next year is more important than this year and that there is legitimately nothing to gain by him stepping foot on a baseball field again in 2011, would be good.

by BohKnowsOs on Aug 17, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

And really, you have to figure that the mgmt/medical staff are also of that mindset, considering that bringing him back this season, even if he produces, wouldn’t be worth the risk of additional injury. My guess is that the Roberts, etc. toe the line on ‘really wanting to make it back this season’ to win a few points from the type of fans/media you mention above, despite the issue already having been decided.

by zsiv on Aug 17, 2011 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Right. Some of it is PR – giving the “what have you done for me lately” crowd a bit of what they want to hear … that he’s working hard to be back on the field. My favorite are the “athletes play all the time with concussions, buck up cowboy” crowd. Like … really? * rolls eyes *

by BohKnowsOs on Aug 17, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not a Hunter believer

and he’s not a 3/4…I think the going line on him is that he’s a 4/5, or a bullpen arm.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?

by Andrew_G on Aug 17, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

This.

He’s a 5.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'd wouldn't give him more than 3

The chubby look isn’t working for him.

If Christina Hendricks can’t pass the first round of the Hottie Invitational, he can’t be more than a 3

War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Vlad is good.

by J(O's)elskIL on Aug 17, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

har har har

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

My favorite thing I read said,

“He appears to have a bit of a cheeseburger problem.”

That said, CC eats bullpen pitchers in his spare time. So if he’s fat but throws strikes and can develop an above-average third pitch, I’ll buy him all the McDoubles he wants.

by BohKnowsOs on Aug 17, 2011 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think he absolutely has 3/4 potential. His location is excellent, he has two very good pitches that he throws for strikes, and he appears to be pretty solid mechanically. The change needs a lot of work – and likely is the difference between him being a 3/4 starter and a relief pitcher – but he’s 25. If not a change, perhaps a cutter, or a splittler, or something? Surely there is a coach out there who can teach a kid who throws 93-94 with above-average command some pitch that moves enough to be a quality third pitch. Hunter’s command is what has me most optimistic about him.

by BohKnowsOs on Aug 17, 2011 9:45 AM EDT reply actions  

he doesn't miss bats and he doesn't get ground balls

that necessarily limits how good he can be.

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?

by Andrew_G on Aug 17, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Particularly in OPACY

I agree. I’m not convinced he can’t miss more bats, though. He needs a legitimate third pitch.

by BohKnowsOs on Aug 17, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

this

his inability to put hitters away is astonishing.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Surely there is a coach out there who can teach a kid"

Problem is, none of them work for the Orioles….

"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King

by duck on Aug 17, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Yup. All to true. I actually really liked Rick Kranitz, and the players really seemed to as well. A lot of guys’ secondary pitches seemed to develop well under him. I never liked Conner (nothing against him personally, just didn’t like his resume), and thought it was a pretty dumb idea to fix the only thing that wasn’t really broken. Spilled milk at this point, I guess.

by BohKnowsOs on Aug 17, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

*All too true.

The grammar police are everywhere.

Welcome to the Suck: Narrating the Oriole Fan's Experience 1998-2011

by Titov on Aug 17, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you spellt grammer wrong.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

mmmmmmm......spelt.

Mother, did it need to be so high.

by salvotion on Aug 17, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, the correct spelling is "grandmother"

It’s right there in the Little Rascals Dictionary

Welcome to the Suck: Narrating the Oriole Fan's Experience 1998-2011

by Titov on Aug 17, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Spllng s ovrtd bye mst flks

"The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government - lest it come to dominate our lives and interests".
- Patrick Henry –

by timg56 on Aug 17, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

If that writer is pulling this stuff off at Yankee Stadium, that's fairly impressive.

I think the only rule for it at OPACY is don’t sit between the bases in the lower bowl.

"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11

by Eat More Esskay on Aug 17, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

i do that all the time at Angels Stadium.

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's the only time I've ever seen somebody get bounced.

Stacey says that the season ticket holders will actually complain between the bases. Elsewhere, I hear ushers say stuff like, “Plenty of room for everybody.”

"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11

by Eat More Esskay on Aug 17, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Batting Stance Guy strikes again.

With some baseball commentator impersonations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKz99K56vSM

"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11

by Eat More Esskay on Aug 17, 2011 11:37 AM EDT reply actions  

the robothal one is hysterical

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?

by Andrew_G on Aug 17, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think my favorite is the Kurkjian.

He has the voice down.

"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11

by Eat More Esskay on Aug 17, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Meh...

I didn’t think it sounded much like Kurkjian. He got the basic cadence down, which is important for some imitations, but the actual voice wasn’t that good. It didn’t have the right pitch and I don’t think I’ve ever heard Kurkjian’s voice get scratchy like in his imitation. And the rest of them I either didn’t know so I couldn’t compare them or they just sounded like his normal voice.

But then imitating voices is one of the things I’m good at, so I’m picky when it comes to this.

by Holymittens on Aug 17, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tim Kurkjian sounds like he's perpetually 5 minutes away from puberty

I thought he nailed it.

"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King

by duck on Aug 17, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

And plus he was hitting the obscure stats.

"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11

by Eat More Esskay on Aug 17, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Drop the Goth part and I'm all for it!

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're all for Holymittens being good at being a female?

"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower

by daveh873 on Aug 17, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

That works too.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

evenin' ladies owwww

The Andy MacPhail plan: "Grow nothing. Buy the pen," (Wieters Weiner 2011).

by birdman on Aug 17, 2011 1:06 PM EDT reply actions  

The bat here. Titov had some moves, but c'mon: I eat tennis rackets for breakfast.

I don’t know where he is now, but he’s been walking around with a 2 × 4 whenever he leaves the main house sitting room. Like he might get bat-strafed in the middle of the day. Doesn’t he know we’re nocturnal?

Anyway, tonight me ‘n’ Chuck and maybe Jimmy will probably do another run around the downstairs around 10, 10:30. If he panicked over Just Me, I can’t wait to see what three of us will do to him. Hey, maybe he’ll bring over the old defense stick from the cottage! It’s wood, for cryin’ out loud — yeah, he’ll be dangerous with that!

Ahahahahahahaha!

Welcome to the Suck: Narrating the Oriole Fan's Experience 1998-2011

by Titov on Aug 17, 2011 1:38 PM EDT reply actions  

If someone posts using my specs today, it's NOT ME, okay?

I think one of them is smart— like smart enough to use my laptop. This could have the makings of a really bad IT-vampire movie, y’know? Anyway: NO FEAR! But it would be stupid to go back in there for a while without a gun or sth. Hey wait a minute— I’ve got some lacrosse sticks in the other house. Perfect! Now we’ll see who’s still got some moves, you little f#ckheads.

—Sent by i-Phone from a safe distance

Welcome to the Suck: Narrating the Oriole Fan's Experience 1998-2011

by Titov on Aug 17, 2011 1:44 PM EDT reply actions  

No Chris Davis for the rest of the year, eh?

Geez, the only luck this team has is bad luck. That, or someone has to relocate the fabrum bear back to Yellowstone.

by Bad Horse on Aug 17, 2011 2:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Holy shitballs

Have you seen today’s lineup against the RHP Brandon McCarthy?

Nevermind the stupid fact that Vlad remains in the middle of the lineup (as if dropping him one spot meant anything!), but guess who’s leading off?

Why, it’s Robert Andino. He of the .225/.304/.297 line vs. righties this year (and .225/.291/.301 career mark). But I’m sure this is some stupid move facilitated by his career 5 for 5 against McCarthy, right?

Wrong, he’s never seen McCarthy.

Is this one of them Sunday forfeit lineups we like to talk about?

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?

by Andrew_G on Aug 17, 2011 2:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Is this one of them Sunday forfeit lineups we like to talk about?

Can’t be. Today isn’t Sunday.

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

"ahh...a lazy Sunday"

“Homer, today is Wednesday!”

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the Orioles' season?

by Andrew_G on Aug 17, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

double whammy...

hope it’s not smarch.

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Aug 17, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

i don't remember enjoying talkin abour sunday forfeits...

i DO, howeverm enjoy talking about…

"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"

by j.q. higgins on Aug 17, 2011 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is a getaway day with an off day tomorrow, so...

"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11

by Eat More Esskay on Aug 17, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Afternoon game thread is a go

http://www.camdenchat.com/2011/8/17/2368748/game-121-orioles-47-73-athletics-54-68-3-35pm

3:35pm Eastern start time. Will we win? Probably not.

"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11

by Eat More Esskay on Aug 17, 2011 3:02 PM EDT reply actions  

I find your lack of faith disturbing!

I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck

by twistedlogic on Aug 17, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had faith last year and look where it got me.

And this year is on the path where it could be worse than last year in terms of the W-L record.

"That ball is gone. We'll pause ten seconds to commit suicide ... I mean, for a station identification." - Joe Angel, 6/17/11

by Eat More Esskay on Aug 17, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too bad Houston has the #1 draft pick all but locked up.

(Yes, I’m going there.)

"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver

by Vuff on Aug 17, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm reading the Yahoo! report and associated article about the mess at The U

Damn, if they don’t get the death penalty, no school’s ever gonna get it again.

"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King

by duck on Aug 17, 2011 3:27 PM EDT reply actions  

I am very much a self-aware potty mouth.

I suppose working at a camp, where I have to suppress my cursing (but who says I did?), I’m letting it all out here (AND ON FACEBOOK, mind you). What’s kind of disturbing is my cousin always chatting me and saying “watch your language”… frankly, I don’t give a shit! (woops?)

"Dyslexia?? It's DCO." - WestcoastO'sfan

by DCO'sfan on Aug 18, 2011 1:38 AM EDT reply actions  

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