Wednesday Bird Droppings
by 2632 on Aug 31, 2011 7:11 AM EDT
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Having technology problems in Birdland this morning, apologies for the brevity.
Orioles' MacPhail could start GM exodus with departure – USATODAY.com
Buck: "I just hope for the best for Andy. This is not one person's fault. You can't be this bad, for this long, without multiple reasons."
MacPhail, speculation and a green-cheese moon - baltimoresun.com
MacPhail: "You can get two sources to say the moon is made of green cheese,"
Minor league updates on Hobgood and Bundy plus AFL note - MASN
"For now, rest has been recommended and Hobgood, the club's first-round draft pick in 2009, is expected to miss the remaining few games of the season."
Adams makes most of shot with Birds - Carroll County Times
Buck: "He's a confident young man and his clock's gotten a little better. It's still going to have to take some adjustments,"
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Can we get a countdown to the end of Kevin Gregg's contract on a sidebar or something?
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 31, 2011 8:52 AM EDT reply actions
too depressing
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
by Stacey on Aug 31, 2011 9:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Brian Tallet is worse!
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Aug 31, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
he's sucky at a fraction of the price
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
by Stacey on Aug 31, 2011 9:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Good point.
It still makes me feel better that someone is suckier than Gregg.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Aug 31, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
The USATODAY article cites an exec source saying we'd aim for Cashman
to potentially replace MacPhail. That’d be.. interesting, to say the least. You have to wonder how a possible Cashman/Angelos dynamic would play out.
Is there talk that the Yankees don't want Cashman back?
If not, why would he leave them, especially for the Orioles?
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
by Stacey on Aug 31, 2011 9:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
As far as I can tell, the extent of it is that his contract is up similar to MacPhail's
I guess it would have to be an ‘offer they cannot refuse’ truck-full-of-cash type of scenario, but yeah, other than that, i have no idea why he’d turn down a potentially similar offer from NYY to come here.
Meh
Spend that truck full of cash on Prince.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions
LOOK! IM NOT HERE TO ARGUE!!!!!
Especially “endlessly”.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
to talk about...
golden appendages.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Aug 31, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Just waiting around for another hottie thread.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
we can rank all available GMs by their attractiveness
Round one: Jim Hendry versus Steve Philips. Go!
Alright, whatever.
Supposedly Cashman has gotten tired of having to deal with the Steinbrenners.
Like with Rafeal Soriano. He was adamantly against signing him, because he’d be spending multiple years and too much money on a reliever, but he was overruled by ownership and the Yankees signed him. It’d be nice to have a GM who understands that relievers aren’t worth multi-year deals.
Article from 2004
Here. Moving to a different team has less stress, Cashman has ties to the area in Bmore, and the ability to get away from the Steinbrenners. All sounds like good reason to leave to me.
"Grow nothing, buy the 'Pen" (Wieters Weiners)
hahaha...
angelos us probably a walk in the park compared to hank and hal!
…sounds like out of the frying pan into the fire, to me.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Aug 31, 2011 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Yea
that alone has to be worth a few hundred thousand a year.
"Grow nothing, buy the 'Pen" (Wieters Weiners)
by IggesRule13 on Aug 31, 2011 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions
is he really someone we want?
my biased evaluation of cashman goes no further than he’s a GM that did pretty good with a lot of money. How does he stack up to guys like Friedman or AA? What about all of those other up and coming types?
Check the NYY drafts
and some of his budget low-budget signings.
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
by duck on Aug 31, 2011 9:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
or...
just the on-field product. as long as he’s been the gm, they’ve consistently had a primarily home grown core of position players and have used their farm system as an effective complement to their FA signings in their starting rotation and pen.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Aug 31, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Int'l presence is biggest for me
Robinson Cano anyone?
"Grow nothing, buy the 'Pen" (Wieters Weiners)
by IggesRule13 on Aug 31, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
This
For every big FA the Yanks or Sox spend, they have a homegrown All Star to match. Jeter, Posada, Cano, Pedroia, Youk, etc etc etc
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 31, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but was Cashman around when Posada and Jeter were "homegrown".
Cano, no doubt about it.
But Jeter and Posada at least were already there. The list has to get shorter for Cashman-made talents.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Do you think
that has anything to do with focusing more on washed up stem cell pitchers and journeyman?
I feel like it is tough to have both a great farm system and try to find veterans on their way out who can contribute (unlike Vlad).
"Grow nothing, buy the 'Pen" (Wieters Weiners)
by IggesRule13 on Aug 31, 2011 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
In response to both...
1. ANY talent development would be an upgrade over what we’re doing now.
2. I don’t want to do the legwork of looking up homegrown players other than the Big Four who were signed before he took over in 1998, but he’s surely had more success with homegrown talent than we have. As of their roster right now, Robinson Cano, Brett Gardner and Ivan Nova. I’ll take those three over Markakis, Wieters, and Britton any day (sorry). I’m sure there’s dozens others over the past decade who have since been traded.
3. Even if he theoretically can’t develop talent as well as our current, system, his FA success rate is astounding. Excluding huge FA signings like Tex and ARod, he clearly has an eye for bringing in veteran FA’s that will excel in their roles. He brings in Granderson, Swisher, Russell Martin, Colon, and Freddy Garcia and they all excel… even have their careers completely revived as in the two pitchers listed who were out of baseball. We bring in… Vlad, Derek Lee, Fatkins, etc. Clearly he’s seeing something our guys are not.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 31, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
On the other hand
I think its a lot easier to both develop guys and bring in the guys for the margins and have them exceed when you aren’t trying to turn around a losing franchise. Or, it’s easier for guys to play better when the team around them is good, and I don’t mean just in terms of RBI and wins.
Alright, whatever.
Im sure they have their share of Atkins in the past 13 years.
I just think with the competition they have for almost every spot, they probably just disappear into the background instead of being cast point blank in the clean-up role every game.
Obviously the Yankees are better run than us, I just think Cashman is very overrated. Without A-Rod, CC, Tex that team would have no shot at the playoffs.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Intangibles
Something you’re normally not interested in discussing.
But I completely agree. I would put this on coaching as well and not just being in a winning atmosphere though, which is another thing a guy like Cashman would hopefully be able to fix when he comes in. Coaching is another thing that can’t really be directly proven, but but is clear examples can be seen. There’s clearly a different coaching mindset in their organization which can be proved by looking at something as simple as plate patience/walk rates between the teams.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 31, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm just easily won over by well-written arguments
and Joe Posnanski wrote about this the other day. It’s on my brain.
Alright, whatever.
an overriding organizational philosophy?
some sort of “way”? if only the orioles had a template!
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Aug 31, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
If the Orioles had home-grown Posada or Jeter, they’d still be playing for the Yankees now.
The Red Sox and Yankees appear to have more homegrown talent because they are always the highest bidder and can afford to keep those guys around and also buy other team’s homegrown talent.
I’m not sure if Cashman is any good without the money. It’d be an interesting experiment. Part of me says I’d prefer to watch that experiment from afar, but what do we have to lose?
It's like the age old question if Phil Jackson is a good coach.
He’s always had either Kobe & Pippen or Shaq & Kobe.
And Cashman has always had the Steinbrenner’s checkbook.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
That Kobe & Pippen combo was killer
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
As long as he follows "buy bats, develop arms" philosophy he'd be fine
Kevin Brown, Jaret Wright, Jeff Weaver, AJ Burnett, Jon Leiber, Javy Vasquez (twice) and too many supposed “bridge to Mariano” guys to mention.
Sabathia exception that proves the rule.
"If you don't like the effect, don't produce the cause."
- George Clinton
Mussina?
Randy Johnson? David Wells (twice)? Roger Clemens? El Duque?
Leiber was pretty good in New York, too.
Sabathia is hardly the only exception to that alledged “rule”,
Alright, whatever.
Garcia, Colon (cheater)…
Pavano was an EPIC fail though…
"Grow nothing, buy the 'Pen" (Wieters Weiners)
by IggesRule13 on Aug 31, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Of course no one will have a 100% success rate
But I’ll take his ~75% success rate in signing iffy veteran FA’s and having them do well as opposed to our nearly ZERO PERCENT success rate. Have we signed one FA in the past two years who has proven to be worth it? I’m surely missing someone (Uehara!) but all I can think of is the atrocious bullpen, Vlad, and D Lee.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 31, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Ummm.... hello?
Garret Atkins
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I honestly looked for about 15 minutes and couldn't find anyone that...
didn’t stay hurt, sucked, or generally just was pathetic. Honestly, Jo-Jo has a decent shot at the best pickup by the Orioles this season, and that’s just SAD…
Birdland and Buck both start with B... coincidence? I think not.
by Birdland in NC on Aug 31, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
El Duque was a unique situation
Well, may be not – Jose Contreras, anyone? (;-)
"If you don't like the effect, don't produce the cause."
- George Clinton
my girlfriend said the same basic thing to me
and of course we will never know how good Cashman is away from New York until Cashman is away from New York. But my response is that New York has done at least one extremely important thing that has been the Orioles real bane, especially lately: they’ve developed the talent they already have. Veterans get better with the Yankees, the farm system actually develops talent with staying power, players don’t tend to stagnate once they’re called up. And while one man isn’t responsible for all of it, Cashman has been the boss there overseeing all of this.
And I would further point to an argument brought up in yesterday’s Baseball Today podcast (Karabell and Law) that if the Orioles hire a guy like Matt Klentak or some other first time GM, there could be a huge tendency for that new GM to be just as conservative as Andy MacPhail was, to his detriment. And I don’t think Cashman, who is as established and stats-friendly a GM as you’re likely to find, will stumble on the “too conservative” curb in Baltimore.
All that said, my response to the news was “Well, that’d be cool, but it’ll never happen. Never.”
Alright, whatever.
What about the player developement guy? How does Stockstill have a job?
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
my concern is...
if a guy like klentak, stockstill or even joe jordan gets the job, then they just get walked allover by buck and/or angelos.
to be fair, you can find plenty of guys that have flailed or not developed under the cashman regime (hello, joba, phil hughes…hell, ian kennedy had to leave new york to become a decent pitcher), but the general point is a good one.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Aug 31, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but we clearly have a problem above standard deviation with developing top prospects.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Sid, for example, was WAY above standard deviation
Or is that below? Anyway, he was a deviant like no other— and we signed him…TWICE.
OK, so did the Yerkees. Guess our systems are both well short of deviant-proof.
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
hahah...
steve howe? doc gooden? straw man? whitey ford? joe pepitone? the mick? billy martin?
yankees history is chock full of deviants.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Aug 31, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Gotta give a shout out to Jimmy Leyritz, too.
Pull the lever for Beaver!
by PBR me ASAP! on Aug 31, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
By "stats friendly"
I don’t mean or necessarily want some guy willing to just talk about formulas and whatever. I just want a GM smart to realize things like “Maybe Kevin Gregg is the worst ideal of a closer ever” or “Maybe Vlad Guerrero is on a steep decline and we shouldn’t pay him 7 million bucks and then hold him completely unaccountable for his performance”.
You know, the basic stuff.
Alright, whatever.
makes a lot of sense there
If he’s got the Andrew G endorsement, than he’d be fine with me.
on the other hand, can an argument be made that player development and scouting have been successful because he’s been given more resources to invest in this stuff than many other GMs?
One thing that can’t be argued is that he actually sees the value in international markets. So that’s a definite plus, but probably any one other McP would too.
Do you think our lack of funding for the international markets comes from MacPhail or Angelos.
I’d have to argue it’s coming from the top since it’s been an ongoing thing forever.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I think if there was somebody who was really passionate about it,
and more importantly, had experience with a team that was successful in the international market (or whatever area the Orioles are deficient in – scouting domestically, whatever), that person could convince Angelos to spend the money (if Angelos is the reason money is not being spent, which I’m not sure of).
He has continually gone about it in the wrong way, but I am sure Angelos wants the O’s to win one before he sells or croaks.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 31, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I would talk myself into Cashman...
…if only because he would probably be motivated to give a big FU to everyone who said he only succeeded due to Yankees money.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 31, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
If it makes you feel any better, Cashman is the #1 choice of James.
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
i remember there were Cashman to the O's rumors the last time his contract was up.
i didn’t believe it then, i don’t believe it now.
meaningless game in a mostly meaningless season of meaningless meaninglessness. emperor nobody, A's Nation.
For whoever said yesterday there is only a handful of LCD manufacturers:
Theres about to be a lot fewer.
Yea
haha, sanyos for everyone!
"Grow nothing, buy the 'Pen" (Wieters Weiners)
by IggesRule13 on Aug 31, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
yea that was me
Its because China keeps adding new companies to the mix and no one can compete
@sibsInExile
Andrew
Honest question here and I’m not just trying to argue endlessly.
I view the hierarchy of the Os as MacPhail is in charge of all the department heads. And the Stockstill boys are the heads of the international scouting AND player development departments.
How the hell have they kept their jobs in the midst of piss poor play development and non-existent international scouting (although I’m sure most of this is a lack of funding)?
In any case, what’s your assessment of them and the piece of the blame pie they should share, and do you think they should still be employed?
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 10:22 AM EDT reply actions
I don't have a satisfactory answer re: the Stockstills
I’ve heard innuendo but I don’t want to repeat it. And of course they deserve a piece of the blame pie. Everyone’s got a hand in it.
As far as their actual job performance, though? Who knows? Their day-to-day business is kept pretty well under wraps, isn’t it? All you can go by is the end product, and that’s a seriously below average amount of player development reaching the big league level. And it remains problem 1-A.
Alright, whatever.
You've heard innuendo but you don't want to repeat it??
Come on! This is a fucking blog – one of the few places where repeating innuendo is not only perfectly appropriate, but not doing so is mean!
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I heard O'sFan21 sometimes uses bad words. Pass it on.
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
OsFan21 is bad with words. Pass it on.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
O'sFan21 works on Breaking Bad
Pass it on.
by Holymittens on Aug 31, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
OsFan21 is a bad whore.
Pass it on.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, I got OsFan21's 38th REC!!!!
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Is there a prize for this or something?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Aug 31, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
There certainly should be.
He’s a stingy Rec’er.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Just like I tell my daughter
if you just give it away it ceases to have any value.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
by O'sFan21 on Aug 31, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
So you tell her she should charge for it?
What neighborhood do you live in?
"If you know how to cheat, start now." - Earl Weaver
the ole, "when you praise everyone, you praise no one," rule.
meaningless game in a mostly meaningless season of meaningless meaninglessness. emperor nobody, A's Nation.
meh
I don’t hold on to the whole “this is the internet so we should just be as awful as possible” ideology.
Alright, whatever.
At least give us a hint so we can do our own due diligence...
I’m finding nothing.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
There was a big piece on Orioles Hangout in the offseason about some of the team's failures.
Part of that story touches on the topic of the Stockstills in general terms.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 31, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
How the hell has anyone kept their jobs?
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 31, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
How the hell have they kept their jobs in the midst of piss poor play development and non-existent international scouting (although I’m sure most of this is a lack of funding)?
They (probably) won’t keep their jobs for much longer once the GM comes in!
meaningless game in a mostly meaningless season of meaningless meaninglessness. emperor nobody, A's Nation.
Ahahaha: cuck it, Cito-- in absentia and perpetuity
Still extremely hard to believe we won a game in which we pulled the extraordinarily unusual Double Defensive Indifference Play AND let Kevin F#cking Gregg work his now-all-too-familiar evilly f#cked-up magic.
The latter was no surprise at least; but the DDIP was a first for me, right up there with the Doc getting thrown out on a walk and the ball-goes-through-your-left-fielder’s-jersey ploy. If I hadn’t seen ’em…
OK, 2-nite we got Jo-Jo and they got Henderson Alvarez— which is not actually, as somebody perceptively suspected yesterday, his real name. I made up “Henderson Alvarez” for him, at his agent’s request. Gimme some credit: it’s distinctive, isn’t it? Much more so than his real name, which is Tom Haverford.
But hey, as the Bard put it, a sucky pitcher by any other name would smell as ripe. That may not be the exact wording— but no punk-with-a-lawyer is going to get me for copyright infringement, it’s public domain. Your results may vary.
Go O’s!
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
My feelings (because you care, of course)
MacPhail did a lot for this organization from top to bottom. There are some things that he could have done differently but as a whole the org has moved in the right direction since he got here. I think it has stalled and I am glad someone new will come in here and continue to build on the foundation MacPhail has built. I can’t say I am 100% satisfied with that foundation but I would say I am pretty satisfied.
Reynolds, Hardy, the Bedard and Tejada trades were all SOLID moves in my opinion.
Its the Gregg, Gonzo (not so much now but still), Atkins, Vlad, D-Lee stuff that almost COMPLETELY cancels out the good stuff.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Remind me how long we'll be paying Vlad to continue the Zombie Shuffle...
It’s literally painful to watch this individual bat. I cannot recall a worse-looking K than his last vs. the Yerks on Monday.
Watching him RUN, on the other hand, is now becoming genuinely funny— although it usually requires medication afterwards.
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
29 more games...
… until we sign him to a two-year extension.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
According to the loudmouth bartender who "knows a guy"
Just LOOK at that batting average!
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 31, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
but...
i believe he gets 4 or 5 million next year, though, the contract was just for this year.
"the secret to a happy ending is knowing when to roll the credits"
by j.q. higgins on Aug 31, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
He hasn't met any of the incentive clauses, I assume
There were such clauses, correct? They were inserted right after the Sanity Clause, if memory serves…
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
[Thanks, dude!] Ahem, so what you're saying is that for Vlad
there is no Sanity Clause.
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
Vlad's contract negotiations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS2khYJZKwA
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
At the end of 2011 he'll have been in charge of the team for over four years
and they are not any better than when the got here. It shouldn’t take four years to put something in place to get better.
I’m not saying he hasn’t done anything good. But it wasn’t even close to as much as he should have done. How much was him, how much was Angelos? We’ll never know, but he certainly wasn’t even minorly successful here.
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
well
I look at the entire organization and not just what is on the field at OPAYC (where I agree – he lacked). Although the pace at which the improvement has been unsatisfactory, I think it was a start. I know we can all sit here and point out what is wrong but fixing it may not be as easy as we all think. The Orioles were a SHIT fest five years ago, with a capital SHIT. I really don’t see how you can say this is that same organization.
Doing a job halfway (or less than in my opinion) is still failure
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
He wasn't hired to clean up 5% of the shit
He was hired to clean up all the shit.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 31, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The O's were the Augean stables
But Andy Mac was no Hercules.
Pull the lever for Beaver!
by PBR me ASAP! on Aug 31, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I'll have the gyro and, lemme see here-- is the spanakopita good?
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
Different shit, but still definitely shit.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Is Jamie McCourt available?
She’s a local girl after all, the daughter of Jack “the cheapest guy in town” Luskin. Seems like she’d be a good fit for Peter “the worst owner in professional sports” Angelos.
It’s hard being an Orioles fan.
"If you know how to cheat, start now." - Earl Weaver
Duck
Whenever you pop in here between periods anyway…
Watched a pretty darn good movie I think you’ll enjoy (if you haven’t seen it already). It’s called Win-Win about a High School wrestling coach. I found it to be a pretty damn likable film and I don’t have the slightest interest in wrestling. Check it out when you get a chance.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 12:04 PM EDT reply actions
Heard about it - need to check it out.
Paul Giammti, right?
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
Yeah... but he's not the normal goofy guy he normally is.
You gotta check it out though. I give it a solid 7.8 out of 10.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
WW and GC
Apparently there’s leaked Julianne Hough cellphone pics going around the interwebz right now. #1 on Yahoo.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 31, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Meh
They’re decidedly PG-13
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 31, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Dear Camden Chat,
Power still out. Sanity fraying. Last night was probably the worst. Listening to the game on the radio and I had nowhere to go to scream when Robert Andino attempted (and failed) to sac bunt not once, but twice, when Kevin Gregg did the predictable Kevin Gregg thing, and finally, no one to celebrate with when the unlikely happened and the O’s overcame this to win.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 31, 2011 12:08 PM EDT reply actions
Dude, why don't you just find a bar?
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude, why don’t you just find a bar shrink?
"Grow nothing, buy the 'Pen" (Wieters Weiners)
by IggesRule13 on Aug 31, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Then I have to pay to eat/drink and worry about driving home after!
Easier to just listen on the radio at home and come here from the library the next day to complain. :p
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 31, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
On a tuesday night, when the only thing on is the Orioles game?
I’m sure you could’ve nursed a beer or two and not gotten any trouble from the bartender.
lol
I picture you in a dark damp apartment, furiously writing game recaps in blood on your walls.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
No, but I might have sent Stacey a few frantic texts.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 31, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I always feel bad when my phone is upstairs or something and I don't hear the text beep
Because I know how desperate you are without power.
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
You can always text me if you need EME
Im standing by 24/7 honey.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Aug 31, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
When did I walk into an AA meeting?
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 31, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Hi Jonathan.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 31, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Hi Dr. Nick!
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 31, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
poor eme
Marge: Homey, do you ever drink alone?
Homer: Does the Lord count as a person?
Marge: No.
Homer: Then yes.
No beer this whole time!
Believe it or not, I really only drink around you people.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 31, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Hang in there, EM.
BTW, my brother (near Albany, NY) still has no power, a basement under water and most of his 1st fl. stuff only marginally salvageable. Gonna be a long haul back to normalcy over there, as in much of next-door VT.
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
They claim they are doing work in my town today.
We’ll see how that goes. Yesterday they turned on most of the power around here, but not my street or the street next to us.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 31, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw on Yahoo that Justin Morneau's concussion symptoms are back
poor guy
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
Which confirms to me my guess that we've seen the last of Brian Roberts as an everyday player.
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
Just got pix from my godson Ilya's wedding last wk in St. Petersburg
She looks v. cute (still haven’t met her) and the hope is she’ll motivate him to finish his degree, get a good job, not join the Mafia, etc. He’s a good kid— er, young man — but (still) lacks focus.
Anyway, I get the feeling this could mean god-grandfather status here pretty soon. Criminy…
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
Funny about perceptions of "looking Russian"
One of the reasons Russians like the new James Bond is that (as I’ve heard multiple times) Daniel Craig “looks Russian.”
Um, OK…
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
I thought it was the ability to take a few shots to the boys and get with a hottie within the hour?
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
Break it a few more times and he'll look even Russianier, I guess...
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
I can see it a bit.
His eyes could look somewhat Slavic if you look at them from the right angle, I guess. (of course, I’m only part Slavic so what do I know?)
LIGHTS!
Bless you all. I missed this place.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Aug 31, 2011 1:42 PM EDT reply actions
CAMERA!
We’re glad you’re back!
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
ACTION!
Ditto.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Aug 31, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
The Thing about Cashman
He has had just as many, if not more, misses then McPhail. The difference is the yankees can keep those guys on the bench behind another high price free agent rather then let them get 500 at bats or 30 starts. I mean, this is a team that has trotted out guys like Wang, Ponson, Colon for meaningful starts.
The Yankees current starting lineup has two big name FA in it
Teixeira and A-Rod.
Jeter, Posada, and Gardner were drafted by the Yankees. (I know the argument that the only reason the Yankees could keep Jeter and Posada around was their unlimited funds, I’m just saying).
Russell Martin was a reclamation project, Cano was signed internationally, and Swisher and Granderson were acquired in trades.
Sabathia and Burnett were the big FA names in the rotation. Hughes was drafted by the Yankees, Nova signed internationally, and Colon and Garcia were trash pickups that have worked out.
Yes, it’s easier to cover mistakes and get big talent when you have a lot of money. But Cashman has done a lot of good with that team beyond spending big bucks.
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
It's the trades he makes that sell me on Cashman
All the talent they trade for and they STILL have Montero?
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
Also the "don't panic" factor
Everyone was waiting for a trade this July, thinking that they needed another starter. And his reasoning was something along the lines of, “Another Sabathia is unrealistic. But in this year’s lot of pitchers on the block is anyone better than what Nova, Colon & Garcia are doing right now? Then why give anything up that we can use in ’12 & beyond?”
Of course a great deal of that attitude may be because the Boss is no longer with us.
"If you don't like the effect, don't produce the cause."
- George Clinton
You're right
Although the Yankees weren’t really bidding against anyone for him, they were the only ones who could afford it.
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
Jake Peavy getting shellacked in the first inning already
Good thing this Twins offense didn’t show up last week!
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Aug 31, 2011 2:23 PM EDT reply actions
Crumbs.
I bet on that game.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Aug 31, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Leaving a cache of vitamin B-12 in his locker with a street value estimated in the high five figures
[sigh]
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
Sweet.
Let’s trade him for another injured prospect.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Aug 31, 2011 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuck it
If Texas sends us a chimichanga in return we’ve made out like bandits.
Gonzo, gone-o!
Pull the lever for Beaver!
by PBR me ASAP! on Aug 31, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Gonzo gone
http://www.camdenchat.com/2011/8/31/2396353/michael-gonzalez-traded-to-texas-rangers-for-ptbnl
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
Sweet. Good riddance.
meaningless game in a mostly meaningless season of meaningless meaninglessness. emperor nobody, A's Nation.
The Blue Jays DFA'd Brian Tallet
I guess that’s what you get for sucking against the Orioles.
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
We can sign him now!
10 mil for 2 years!
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Aug 31, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
2?? Are you joking?
10 mil ONE year!
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
As if we would ever DREAM of signing a shitty relief pitcher to a 1 year deal
3 years or pound sand
Pull the lever for Beaver!
by PBR me ASAP! on Aug 31, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm writing this as a fucking senior!
And this will probably be my last post for a long time. Y’know, I’ve kinda got cooler stuff to do… college applications, not fucking up senior year, counting down the days until semester one is finished AT WHICH POINT I’M OFF TO POLAND AND ISRAEL FOR THREE MONTHS. So… buh bye dudes.
"Dyslexia?? It's DCO." - WestcoastO'sfan
*sniff* We can only keep baby bird in the nest for so long before she needs to fly...
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
may the force be with you.
meaningless game in a mostly meaningless season of meaningless meaninglessness. emperor nobody, A's Nation.
Welp, we'll miss hearing about your senior year (or I will, anyway) but
mają dobre przelotu na trasie Polska and then
ליהנות בישראל!
Shalom!
If you've been away, we still suck. And yes, we willl step outside and say that.
Was this already posted somewhere and I missed it?
Some feel-good reading:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6910799/baltimore-orioles-revert-losing-ways
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Uh oh
Nick Markakis plays a fine defensive right field and has been exceedingly durable, but his power numbers began taking a curious dip several years ago. His slugging percentage peaked at .491 in 2008 and has declined every year since — from .453 to .436 to .400 so far this season. He’s a nice player. But nice and complementary weren’t quite what the Orioles envisioned when they signed him to a six-year, $66.1 million extension in 2009.
“He’s become a streaky hitter, and he seems to have different approaches,” said an NL scout. “His bat has slowed down too. You used to not be able to get in his kitchen, but now you can. There are a lot of issues going on there that are not good.”
Pick up a 15 lb weight you sob!
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
And how about this in the comments section:
That is because they are garbabe and were overrated. Showalter is overrated. The team won’t do well until he leaves. Showalter’s career in a nutshell
‘92-’95 Yankees (1 playoff appearance) Fired, Yanks win WS in ‘96
’98-’00 Diamonbacks (1 playoff appearance) Fired, D’backs win WS in ‘01
’03-’06 Rangers (0 playoof appearances) Fired, Rangers make WS 4 years later.
So fire him now and you have a chance to go to the WS in the near future.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
there's also an insider companion piece about the O's defense.
I looked at the Orioles in terms of basic defensive efficiency — simply the percentage of balls in play that are turned into outs — and the Orioles possess the worst leather in the majors. Even when adjusted for ballparks, the Orioles settle to the bottom of both circuits. The reasons are obvious; catcher Matt Wieters is the only above-average fielder they possess, while some, particularly third baseman Mark Reynolds, are among the worst at their position in the game. There was a long stretch of this season when Reynolds was batting under .200 and fielding under .900, a combo that no major leaguer has rolled up in an appreciable amount of playing time since the immortal John Gochnauer hit .185 and fielded .869 more than 100 years ago. Since Derrek Lee was traded, Reynolds has spent much of his time at first base, but the damage was already done.
Orioles starters, by nature of being a low-strikeout unit (a problem in and of itself), put a lot of pressure on their defense to turn balls in play into outs. The fielders have failed to cooperate, resulting in the pitchers looking worse than they actually are. Fielding-independent ERA estimators like FIP suggest that Tillman (3.97 FIP versus 5.52 ERA) and Britton (3.92 versus 4.54) have been particularly hurt by the gloves.
Ironically, the Orioles’ defensive problems reverse the signature accomplishment of last year’s Showalter renaissance. When the manager arrived, the Orioles were 27th in defensive efficiency. For the rest of the season, they were first. Showalter benefited from a couple of flukes of timing — he arrived just as Brian Roberts was arriving (after a long stretch on the disabled list) and Miguel Tejada was leaving. Unfortunately, Reynolds has proved to be this year’s Tejada, at least defensively, while Roberts has been absent since mid-May due to concussion symptoms.
meaningless game in a mostly meaningless season of meaningless meaninglessness. emperor nobody, A's Nation.
and a few comments
FIP suggest that Tillman (3.97 FIP versus 5.52 ERA) and Britton (3.92 versus 4.54)
Wow, Tillman.
Showalter benefited from a couple of flukes of timing — he arrived just as Brian Roberts was arriving (after a long stretch on the disabled list) and Miguel Tejada was leaving. Unfortunately, Reynolds has proved to be this year’s Tejada, at least defensively, while Roberts has been absent since mid-May due to concussion symptoms.
I remember there was speculation that the improved defense was due to Buck’s ability to properly position fielders. So much for that.
meaningless game in a mostly meaningless season of meaningless meaninglessness. emperor nobody, A's Nation.
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