Thursday Bird Droppings
by 2632 on Sep 15, 2011 9:04 AM EDT
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Guthrie leads Orioles to series win over Rays - Carroll County Times
"A couple of their guys were like, ‘You know you're out of it, right?'" third baseman Chris Davis said. "But the biggest thing for us is to finish strong. We know those guys are battling and we don't want to make it easy for them. We don't want to just lay down, so I think there's a sense of pride we carry within ourselves to go out there and compete and make it tough on them."
Jones honored for charity work but disappointed to not start fourth straight game - baltimoresun.com
"Giving back my time, I think that's something easy to do," said Jones, who entered Tuesday's game in the eighth inning as a pinch-runner. "I understand that we have a crazy schedule, but on off days, I think a couple of hours of my time, it's pretty easy for someone to do.
Having the awareness and being able to contribute my time and be a role model to a lot of the young kids, that's fulfilling to me."
Re-Introducing the Camden Depot Oriole Book Club - Camden Depot
Looking for a winter reading list?
Adam Jones is (shaving) cream of the Orioles crop | The Daily Times
"...the discussion of favorite Orioles came up and who we considered "an Oriole." Besides the obvious slew of Hall of Famers, we named guys like Chris Hoiles, Paul Blair and Mike Flanagan, players who you can look back at fondly about their time in Baltimore. I think we can officially add Adam Jones to the list."
Amber Theoharis: Orioles playing in significant September games - MASN
"There's meaningful baseball being played at Camden Yards in September. Whether it's meaningful to Orioles fans is up for debate, but surely the games played during the O's current homestand are meaningful to baseball."
Buck Showalter talks with the media after the Orioles' win 6-2 over the Rays - MASN
Post-Game flavor with Buck.
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Lots of tough picks this week for the pick'em pool.
Too many crappy teams playing other crappy teams.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
so are you definitely locking in Pitt as your survivor pick this week?
i’m leaning towards it, just hate taking a solid team so early in the season. although who knows, after how shitty they looked last week maybe they won’t actually be so great this year.
carolina in my mind...
I'm locked in on Pitt
We’re already down to 8 after Week 1 so I’m not gonna get cute until I have to.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Sep 15, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm locked on Pitt too
There are plenty of good teams so I’ll take a lock when I can.
28 of 40 left in mine. ($10 each, winner take all)
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 15, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah you guys kinda talked me in to them
in my pool there’s roughly 50 people and i think 14 or so got knocked out week 1. $25 per person, winner take all, so it will be quite the healthy pot.
carolina in my mind...
Damn that's a lot
Good luck. We’re at 11, excuse me, down from 19 to start. $20 per so I stand to win about as much as WW.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Sep 15, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah, big money
i got knocked out in the first two weeks each of the last two years, so i’ll feel pretty good if i can make it over that hump this year
carolina in my mind...
I almost always lose in week 3.
Its almost like a mental block on week 3.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Same.
Pitt for the win this week.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Fucking Josh Hamilton
Playoff opponent in my money league went 1-17 at the plate yesterday, but the one was a GS from Josh Hamilton. Also, I benched Ricky Romero for fear of a Red Sox lineup that put 18 on the Blue Jays on Tuesday, and Romero only gave up 3 and got the W.
We’re neck and neck and he has twice as many SP starts as I do remaining for the week, with a G on the line. I’m on pins and needles.
Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless - like water. Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup, you put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, you put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Sep 15, 2011 10:22 AM EDT reply actions
damn homey
best of luck to you. i’m in one money roto league that i keep going back and forth between 1st and 2nd place with this one other team, but that’s only for $100 so not quite the same amount of pressure.
carolina in my mind...
'You know you're out of it, right?'
‘Yes, and we’ll be even more out of it when we play the Red Sox 7 of their last 10 games, fuck stick. How about you try to win a baseball game when you’re in a pennant race instead of expecting us to roll over.’
I know we are supposed to hate the Red Sox and Yankees, and have a secret fan-crush on the Rays, but that is some ignorant shit, if someone really said it… especially to Chris Davis. You want a dude who is basically playing for his major league career to dog it so that you can slightly increase your chance of being the wild-card team? I’m glad we beat them…
"Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.."
Yeah fuck off man. I wish there was a way for neither the Red Sox or the Rays to make the playoffs.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Angels are 4.5 back...
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
A lot less than the Sox, and now the Rays...
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
I'm sure it was said with dead seriousness
by Holymittens on Sep 15, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
We're good and you suck.
Yep, pretty funny joke.
Don’t care if it was light hearted bantering. Say that and I am going to enjoy beating you a whole lot more.
"Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.."
I hate to say it
I was honestly rooting for TB.
Whether the Os win 64 or 65 games I could care effing less.
To see Boston miss the playoffs would be freaking sweet!
I know they gotta handle business on their own and have no one to blame but themselves, but I was hoping they’d sweep the Os and then we’d go on to win out.
Boston should be good to go now though with TB having 7 games left against the NYY.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 15, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
It's hard to say, but I sort of agree.
This season is useless, and as much as I want the O’s to win every single game and to play competent baseball (like this series), It’d be SO worth it to lose a few to make the PHN miss the playoffs after everyone was crowning them before ST
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Vlad is good.
by J(O's)elskIL on Sep 15, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
When I read that quote
it just pissed me off. You think you’re better than us? Prove it on the field, dipwad. Maybe trash talk like that between players is common, but I still have a problem rooting against the O’s, no matter who benefits from it. And I hope the players are pissed off when they hear something like that too.
Screw ’em
"I may make you feel, but I can't make you think." Ian Anderson
I would love to see the Red Sox miss the playoffs, too.
But I want it to be because we beat them next week, not because we lose to the Rays. I would like my team to try not to suck, instead of turning on and off the suck when it suits my hateration needs.
Also, I live in Tampa. So, I only get to watch the Orioles on TV when they play the Rays. So that was an awesome way to end my viewing season. Wieters 3 HR in 3 games. And, although I like individual members of the Rays, I hate how good they’ve been for 4 years now, and they still can’t fill a stadium.
"Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.."
Well, it doesn't work when you put it 30 minutes from the town it services with one freakin' bridge to get to it, anyway.
I finally did a Google Maps to see just how bad the access is from Tampa. It’s almost impossible to get to the place. Why in the world did anyone ever think that location would work?
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
That's also not the Rays' fault, though.
They want to move, but St. Petersburg, especially the mayor, won’t let them. Besides, the Marlins don’t have a problem like that (as far as I know) and drew something like 300+ people to one game. 300!
fan base hates loria
put in a good owner, i think the fans will come.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
They were 15th in the NL in attendance in 2003.
A year where they won 91 games (and the World Series, but obviously fans didn’t know that would happen during the regular season). Loria hadn’t been an owner for very long during that time. I find it hard to believe fans wouldn’t come in a year that successful just because of the owner.
Speaking of the fanbase
We’re #2 in percentage attendance decline for the past decade
The O’s blurb:
> Decrease in attendance: 44.00%
> 2001 W-L record: 63-98 (finished 4th in AL East)
> 2010 W-L record: 66-96 (finished 5th in AL East)
> League championships last decade: none
Baltimore’s golden years were arguably during the Cal Ripken Jr. era of the 90’s. The team was competitive nearly every year, and had the best record in the American League in 1998. After Ripken retired, the team’s talent — and most of its fan base — began to wane. The team is in a division with three of the best teams in the American League (the Yankees, the Red Sox, and the Devil Rays) and the odds are stacked against it gaining a playoff berth. The team has not made the playoffs since 1997. In 2001, the annual stadium attendance in Baltimore was just over 3 million. Today, it is 1.74 million.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
We surely did not have the best record in the AL in 1998.
Maybe they meant best attendance? Highest payroll?
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 16, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Thought it was kinda odd they didn't pick up on the Rays losing the Devil bit either.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
Wait, by golden years, what do they mean?
Because who the hell thinks our golden years were during the 90s?
The wonders of time-frame selection bias.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Vlad is good.
by J(O's)elskIL on Sep 16, 2011 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions
they hated Loria before 2003.
Actually, they hated the Marlins before 2003 because fans were upset that the previous owner held a fire sale after winning the world series. during the 2003 season, they were fringe contenders and barely made it into the playoffs. josh beckett wrote the rest of the story.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
"You know you're still in it right?"
“And yet you lose a series to us? Boy, how bad must you feel right about now?”
"I may make you feel, but I can't make you think." Ian Anderson
by Zeke McGeek on Sep 15, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Exactly
If you can’t beat a team of prospects than GFY. Rays are turning into a bunch of divas.
"Grow nothing, buy the 'Pen" (Wieters Weiners)
Oh!
Magic Number to non-100 loss season stands at 3.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
This this and THIS
I just really hope we don’t lose 97 games.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 15, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Triple digit losses look worse than double digit ones
100+ losses are signs of monumental suck, whereas double digits are seen as just suck-suck suckity suck suck suck. Might be silly, but I’d be happy with a non-100 loss season, although compared to my high hopes from pre-season it is monumental suck.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
you're not even rooting for mediocrity, you know?
nobody in their right mind is going to say “Oh, well the Orioles only lost 98 games. They weren’t as bad as some awful 100 loss team.” Nah, people are just gonna round that shit. Meanwhile we put emphasis on arbitrary numbers like 100 losses or 81 wins and then we’re striving for meaninglessness.
Jim: Why?
Gary: I don't know why.
Rooting for the little things when the big things aren't available
People place milestones on things all the time. 5 errors in a season? Not too bad. 20+ errors? Perhaps you should not be standing on the field where you currently are, sir. 81 wins looked realistic at the beginning of the season, but definitely not so now. Hell, at the beginning of the season I was hoping for 90+, but that was just silly. I’ll settle for non-monumental suckitude this year and hope for more next year. When the big victories aren’t there, you take the little wins until you’re in a position to get the big wins.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
The Orioles monumentally sucked this year regardless of how many of the last 12 games they lose.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 15, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think .500 in meaningless.
I mean, of course success = playoffs contention and nothing less, but first the all of Birdland has to get over this losing season streak. It’s psychologically damaging and I think that kind of thing does effect everyone; the fans, players and FO.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Vlad is good.
by J(O's)elskIL on Sep 15, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I go back and forth on that one.
On some level, as a fan I would like that losing season streak to end so that we are no longer mentioned in every sentence about recent futility.
But then, this year it seemed like the goal was aiming for the .500 season, and now here we are in September trying to avoid a 100 loss season. I don’t think this is a coincidence.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 15, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I agree. Not surprising that we failed.
If you build for the playoffs and fail, you get to .500. If you build for .500 and fail, you get 100 losses. And you can count on our FO to fail
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Vlad is good.
by J(O's)elskIL on Sep 15, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
But, if we lose ONE HUNDRED GAMES, Free Agents won't want to come here!!!
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 15, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Vlad signed!
So did Atkins…..and Accardo…..and Gregg…..
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Now you're catching on!
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Well, hip-hip-hooray.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Vlad is good.
by J(O's)elskIL on Sep 15, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a great article.
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/9/15/2426697/stats-moneyball-movie-branch-rickey-constipation
"Roberts is unconscious!!!!" - Jim Hunter, after Brian Roberts hits his second HR of the night. 9/21/09
Great article except for the part about hanging toilet paper.
Underhand hanging is heresy. Plain and simple.
Mother, did it need to be so high.
it somewhat makes sense though
and the people who do this today are freaks, ostracized by normal society
kind of like being an Orioles fan
"I may make you feel, but I can't make you think." Ian Anderson
by Zeke McGeek on Sep 15, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I've always felt it was something of a safety/don't-want-toilet-paper-all-over-the-floor issue.
Overhand is easier for little kids and small animals to get rolling. And one they’ve built up steam, there’s no stopping them. If that aspect of the hanging toilet paper isn’t an issue, I’m completely in favor of the overhand setup.
"Roberts is unconscious!!!!" - Jim Hunter, after Brian Roberts hits his second HR of the night. 9/21/09
That's a great point. Never thought of that.
I’m lucky enough to have a three-legged cat that doesn’t do things like bat at toilet paper rolls.
Mother, did it need to be so high.
I don't see how underhand prevents TP on the floor.
I detest underhand TP. Too often the leading edge gets hidden in the TP nook.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and a little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
It prevents tp on the floor when a child or pet is trying to play with the roll.
The usual method of doing so is a downward motion on the tp roll from the front. If the roll is loaded underhand, this motion will just cause the roll to spin around. If hung overhand, the tp spills on the floor.
That being said, I hate underhand tp roll hanging.
Mother, did it need to be so high.
Ah, I see. but i think a clever kid will figure out....
…..that pushing the front of the roll up will cause it to unwind.
Also, I don’t plan to be the guy who reorganizes his entire house around my kids. I.e., foam pads on every sharp edge, etc.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and a little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
So i saw a trailer for the Footloose remake last night
and while I admit i’ve never seen the original, i feel like it had way fewer explosions.
I've alwas thought thought that Michael Moore has done some good, relevant work in the past, but in this case he's a friggin' idiot
as much as I think Hasselbeck is a right wing, Tea Party nutcase, this time she’s right. If I was on that mission, I would have double tapped OBL even if I was ordered to bring him in alive.
Part of me wonders whether Michael Moore is so fringey
simply because that’s what it takes in order to bring the conversation into a middle ground. Sort of like pricing a used car at $6,000 even though you know it won’t sell for more than $5,500.
Most of me thinks he’s just a douchebag even though I agree with him more often than not.
Tommy hunter still sucks!
What I wonder
is how much longer he can live being so fucking fat???
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
No idea.
What I want to know is how he lives just fine and skinny people who eat right and exercise are having heart attacks.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
haha that's a good question too
Seriously though, he can’t have more than a few years left right?
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Paula Deen's been going strong for like 60 years....
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Is Nick avoiding a heartattack?
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
Although he does have the skinny
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
For sure. The guy who started Runner's World magazine died of a heart attack while going for a run
life ain’t fair, sometimes
See!
This is what I mean! Fit people shouldn’t have heart attacks.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I refer you to Denis Leary
Hey, I got two words for you, ok. Jim Fix. Remember Jim Fix? The big famous jogging guy? Jogged fifteen miles a day. Did a jogging book. Did a jogging video. Dropped out of a heart attack when? When he was fucking jogging, that’s when! What do you wanna bet it was two smokers who found the body the next morning and went, “Hey! That’s Jim Fix, isn’t it?” “Wow, what a fucking tragedy. Come on, lets go buy some buds.”
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
hahaha.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Via Bill Hicks
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
by NSOsFan on Sep 15, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wow, I was waiting to see how long it took for this comment to come
and for Duck to rec it. Denis Leary is still funnier than Hicks was. And if you liked Hicks, guess what? Now you have a version of him that’s still alive. Enjoy!
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
That's like saying Dr Thunder is as good as Dr Pepper
And it’s Jim Fixx, people. TWO x’s.
I go away for two days and this place is goin’ to hell in a handbasket…
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
And we all know Mitch Hedberg was the FUCKING MAN, anyway.
We don’t need to bring ink and paper into this.
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
THE. MAN. end of disscusion.
I don’t think I laughed so hard for anyone else.
“I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to too.” Awesome
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Vlad is good.
by J(O's)elskIL on Sep 16, 2011 3:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I was in a death metal band
People either loved us or hated us, or thought we were just OK.
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
i was in downtown boise idaho once, and i saw a duck.
and i knew he was lost man, because ducks ain’t s’posed to be downtown. there’s nothing for ’em there.
so I went into a subway sandwich shop and I ordered a bun. But she wouldn’t sell me just the bun. she said it’s against subway’s policy to sell just the bun. i guess the two halves ain’t supposed to touch. I said ‘well ok, put some lettuce on it’. she said ’ that’s $3.00’, i said ‘$3? it’s for a duck!‘. she was like, ’oh, then it’s free’.
I did not know that. ducks eat for free at subway! had i known that i would’ve ordered a much larger sandwich. i’d be like, let me get the steak fajita sub, but don’t bother ringing it up, it’s for a duck.
Heh. I remember that
as a runner, I thought that was pretty morbid, but also thought, Geez, I hope that isn’t my fate. I’d rather go having a heart attack during sex with Dianna Agron
I would be okay with that.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
She really got robbed in the contest.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 15, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't I know it.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, life isn't always fair
just look at the ’69, ’71 and ’79 World Series.
Before my time, alas.
And also before Ms. Agron’s time, for that matter. :)
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 15, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that fantasy doesn't make sense if you take the "age divided by 1/2 and add 7 years equation"
but I can still say she’s a real friggin’ hottie!!!!
She's legal, dude.
That’s all that matters :-)
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh
I think his broader point still makes sense though – isn’t the biggest fuck you that we can give these assholes is to say you know what our system that you hate so much is so fucking great that we’re going to hold even the scum of the earth accountable within it. Specifically about Bin Laden I don’t care so much, but for guys that are already in custody I think it’s silly. I also think her argument about having him stand trial would make him a martyr is a really bad argument too, as if being executed at the hands of the “evil infidel Americans” doesn’t make him a martyr.
And also I think if you were on that mission you’d do exactly what you were ordered or you wouldn’t be on it.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I'm as liberal as anyone, but the best Fuck You we can give them is one to the chest, one to the head
and as far as mission orders go, trust me, I know. Whatever orders the SEALs were given, he was coming back in a body bag
Like I said - I'm all for taking these dudes out in raids like OBL's
but for guys that are already in custody I don’t think the argument holds any water.
And I don’t know what you know, but nobody gets to be a SEAL by disobeying orders.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Accidents happen :-)
“Oh…..I fired off a few rounds in interrogation by accident. No big deal. Nothing special..nothing to worry about.”
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
You're absolutely correct
if they are already in custody, either put them on trial or let them go.
Please don't think I'm trying to call you out or say something that you might think is disrespectful
but yes, orders get disobeyed all the time. This was earlier today. He was ordered several times not to do what he did
Is that dude a SEAL that was on the OBL mission? I don't see anything about that in the article.
My argument wasn’t that orders don’t get ignored or disobeyed in the broader military, just that nobody on a mission like that is going to disobey an order or they wouldn’t have been there in the first place.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
And I absolutley disagree with you
Although we will probably see what the official orders were only years from now, the higher you go up the food chain in units like this, like Dev Gru, and Combat Applications Group, they are independent thinkers, even though team integrity is stressed. I’m absolutely sure the orders were, “bring him back in a bag,” but if they weren’t, whoever the team leader was would have said he’s not coming back breathing, and the rest of the team would have said, “Skip, we’re with ya.” That’s just the way it is.
I know these types of guys, I’ve trained with these guys, I’ve done the same kind of stuff they’ve done. But when you execute missions like what they did in our country, you are exposed to laws that say you can’t shoot a guy between the eyes who is a homicide suspect who killed 8 people, no matter how much you want to drop the hammer on him, or her.
Not there, in Paki territory. You think we’re gonna to turn a Dev Gru team over to the Hague to put them on trial in an internatonal court? I don’t think so, And all those operators know that.
But this is probably a lame discussion, because I’m sure Mr. Obama said, “don’t bring him back alive.”
There's a difference between the type of independent thinking that's valued in special ops
which is adapting to situations as they arise, always being on the look out for a better way, etc and blatantly disobeying the entire mission order. That is not going to happen.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I feel like i'm going to regret getting into this
but i think an even better response would have been to ignore them completely. Treat 9/11 like a natural disaster, and just rebuild (which we could have done thousands of times over with the money we spent in Iraq and Afganistan). Bin Laden said one of his biggest objectives was to draw us into multiple wars and nearly bankrupt us in the process. No matter how many bullets you put in him, he got what he wanted.
Or do essentially what we seem to be shifting towards now
with lots of targeted special ops attacks.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I don't care about giving them a fuck you
I care about limiting their ability to kill Americans. Bin Laden being dead does that. He’s dead, he’s gone, who’s next? A trial makes him the focal point; keeps him in the news.
From all accounts Al-Zawahri is useless as a leader. People don’t like him, not even other insane terrorists. As long as Bin Laden is alive, he can remain a lackey. Even if Bin Laden can’t speak to his followers directly in US custody, his existence on this earth was a threat. A threat we eliminated.
I didn’t cheer his death, as I don’t cheer anyone’s death. But I think deadly force was justified, and I think it was the best possible outcome of the mission.
"Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder 'why, why, why?' Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.."
Again I don't care about the OBL case - I'm glad he's dead
I was talking, and while Moore did mention OBL specifically I think his broader point was more general, about people we already have in custody who we are not going to execute.
But I think the big “fuck you” I was talking about giving them wasn’t just a “fuck you” in the sense of rubbing their face in it, it was more about cutting the legs out from under their sales pitch to all the young angry people that they are recruiting or trying to recruit daily.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Forget bin laden, specifically.
The abstract point is that we, as a country, were founded on some principles, including the right to trial. If we start corrupting those principles, and rationalizing it, they have indeed won. I’m not saying that’s what we did here. I’m saying that Moore has a point we shouldn’t overlook.
"I may make you feel, but I can't make you think." Ian Anderson
This is a much more articulate communication of what I was trying to say.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Good point.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I am no scholar of the Constitution
But I’m pretty sure that Constitutional rights, except in limited circumstances, do not apply to non-citizens. I don’t think OBL is entitled to a trial.
Mother, did it need to be so high.
I could be wrong
but I believe that right is available to both citizens and non-citizens. When illegal immigrants are arrested for crimes they face criminal prosecution just like everybody else – the only difference being likely deportation after serving whatever punishment is handed down via the normal criminal process.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
They are entitled to due process rights, generally
that doesn’t mean they’re necessarily entitled to a trial. Its been pretty widely accepted that military tribunals are acceptable, but its still being debated how much those tribunals have to resemble trials.
Right
due process probably doesn’t include holding indefinitely at Gitmo.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I can pretty confidently say it does not
However, it’s been pretty hard to nail down a time period thats unacceptable. Its difficult to fathom how we could say something like if we hold you until November 6th we’re cool, but feel free to sue us on the 7th because you’re rights have totally been violated.
That happens all the time.
Disappearing and appearing rights based on arbitrary deadlines are part and parcel of the legal world. Were you defrauded 2 years ago? Great! go ahead and sue. Defrauded two years and one day ago? Sorry! You’re fucked.
Mother, did it need to be so high.
Right
but the process of determining that arbitrary deadline, especially regarding such a messy political issue, can be exceedingly difficult. And so far, the Guantanamo case law, for lack of a better term to encompass it, is still incredibly murky.
Its pretty complicated, and not entirely clear legally
if you’re really curious, theres essentially a 4 case series addressing this issue.
Rasul v. Bush (2004)
Hamdi v. Rumsfeld (2004)
Hamdan v. Rumsfeld (2006)
Boumediene v. Bush (2008)
All of that left my brain after taking the bar.
What, no pin cites?
Mother, did it need to be so high.
This was literally all i learned in con law
we had a visiting con law professor who was obsessed with Guantanamo, so we spent like half the time on those 4 cases.
And by "learned", i mean remember the case names and little else
it was such a waste of time, i barely paid attention at all
Two to the dome was all the trial he needed
Dude launched an attack on Americans on American soil. That’s an act of war. You don’t get a trial. You get a bunch of bad-ass heavily-armed Navy SEALs jumping out of helicopters bursting through your door to kill you in your own house, even if it takes 10 years. That’s what you get.
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
As a matter of what Bin Laden deserved I agree
But I would have liked to hear him spill his guts in open court about his collaboration with Reagan & Geroge the Smarter… and his (possible) collaboration with Cheney & George the Lesser
"If you don't like the effect, don't produce the cause."
- George Clinton
Fourth time this week these people have decided to run their fucking telecon at a desk phone.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
If I had a tuba here, you can bet that's what I'd be doing.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Sep 15, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
you should stop on your way home and get an air horn for next time
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
Play Youtube videos with the A&W Root Bear really loud. There's your tuba.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
YOU. LAWN. OFF.
"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom?" ~ Death
by NSOsFan on Sep 15, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I was on the train from Pen-NY to Penn-Newark today
and some jackass decides that’s the perfect time to have a 20-minute convo with a client. JUST as I got my iPhone out, had the first 10 seconds to THIS SONG loaded up (it’s my ringtone), with volume at 50% or so, right by his ear, he said “Bye” and hung up. He had no idea how close he was…
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
Quick Question
Would you veto this trade as Commisioner in an already shady league:
Santonio Holmes & Danny Woodhead
For:
Roddy White
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Sep 15, 2011 5:54 PM EDT reply actions
Wait, what?
The Rays know they’re out of it, right?
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and a little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
I'm pulling for the rangers in the post season. I like the idea that they tell their pitchers not to be babies
but I need to watch SOME baseball tonight.
fact
the rangers starters have thrown the 8th most innings in baseball this year. And any Orioles fan will tell you if the starters are throwing a lot of innings, that’s a good thing in many ways (The O’s are dead last, 110+ innings behind Texas).
But if you want to root for a team that doesn’t baby their pitchers, I might suggest the team whose starters, despite an average age two years younger than the Rangers, have thrown the most innings in baseball: the Tampa Bay Rays.
Jim: Why?
Gary: I don't know why.
It's almost like good starters can make a bullpen look really good!
How about THIS one then: Texas’ offense is more interesting.
i think Texas is just generally more interesting
but I’m not buying into the Nolan Ryan hype machine yet.
Jim: Why?
Gary: I don't know why.
Yeah, I think it's probably a farce
but I like to make my yearly choice of who to root for in october as haphazardly and cavalierly as possible.
If you are making it cavalierly,
I suggest you root for these guys.
"I put a pepper rub on the scallops so you have a little contrast. You have sweetness from the coconut oil and a little acidity from the splash of lemon." – Luke Scott
Correlation is not causation is a concept lost on the media,
Nolan Ryan was fun to watch and he prolly personifies all that’s good about Texas (having never been there, so what do I know?), but he seems to be benefitting from good timing. Of course, given how great a pitcher he was for some mediocre teams, maybe it’s just karma.
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
I'll probably root for Texas because of Koji.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 16, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but they have Gone-zo, too
Doesn’t that negate any positive karma Koji brings?
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
You say that now
but wait until you see all those Texas flags and GWB. I’m conflicted, man.
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
well, I'm actually rooting for Detroit
because they have Verlander
Jim: Why?
Gary: I don't know why.
I love Verlander
but I have trouble rooting for a team that would probably be below .500 if not for one single player and a weak division.
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
You've got a good point here.
I might go with Detroit. I feel like Detroit (as a city) has a lot in common with Baltimore. Plus, Verlander is awesome.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Sep 16, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
last year I definitely wanted to root for Texas
because I like rooting for teams that haven’t been to the playoffs lately. But by the end of the World Series I was like “Enough with the flags already! We know what state this is!”
Giraffes have absurdly strong necks.
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