Saturday Bird Droppings
by Stacey on Feb 11, 2012 9:35 AM EST
in Open Threads
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PrintLast night the Orioles released a statement from Dan Duquette regarding the whole banned from South Korea thing. Here is that statement:
"On behalf of the Orioles organization, I offer a sincere apology to the Korea Baseball Organization and the Korea Baseball Association for the club's unintentional breach of protocol in failing to tender a status check in the process of signing Seong-Min Kim. The Orioles respect Major League Baseball's recruiting policies and the governing bodies and people that contribute to the growth of baseball around the world."
Oh, well, as long as you're sorry.
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$60M for a guy who has never played a day in the majors is pretty risky, no?
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for some reason...
i really don’t like the fact that angle’s been dfa’d for luis ayala.
"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition,from Moses to Sandy Koufax,YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I'M LIVING IN THE FUCKING PAST!"- Walter Sobchak
that's as good a reason as any...
though i still wonder if duquette has another trade up his sleeve.
"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition,from Moses to Sandy Koufax,YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I'M LIVING IN THE FUCKING PAST!"- Walter Sobchak
by j.q. higgins on Feb 11, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
Came across something for all you beer snobs no Woot
Free Subscription to Draft Magazine
They’ll prob send you a on of junk mail though.
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 11, 2012 10:06 AM EST reply actions
You would not believe the number of micro brews available at Mariners baseball games
it seems like every friggin’ vendor in that stadium has different beers. Stuff I would try one time and dump it because it tasted like shit. Just give me a Miller Lite.
I've just always found it hard to find a decent micro brew
when I was living in Alaska in the 70’s, a brewery made the first home grown Alaska beer, called Prinz Brau (or some such name). Alaskans were so proud of it, and it tasted like crap. That was my first experience with micros, and I’ve never seemed to have luck with them since. That’s why I try to stay with the good old American favorites. Had a couple of PBRs at a Super Bowl party last weekend and thought, damn, this is some good stuff.
I concur!
Had a couple of PBRs at a Super Bowl party last weekend and thought, damn, this is some good stuff.
He praised my creativity, though he spoke sarcastically...
by PBR me ASAP! on Feb 11, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
All they need is to keep the Heavy Seas Marzen flowing
and I am a happy fan
He praised my creativity, though he spoke sarcastically...
by PBR me ASAP! on Feb 11, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Banned from South Korea?
Well, at least we still have Aruba to recruit from.
Recruit from Aruba? No, i think, there are no permanent Orioles scout living in Aruba!
Last, the Phillies has hired an Aruban scout and they have signed the Aruban super talented Jiandido Tromp. Tromp, 5-11, 160 pounds is a five tool player, who can play different positions on the field. He is a natural power hitter, with good speed and knowlegde of baseball.
Jiandido Tromp became Senior League World Champion in 2010 with the Aruban team in Bangor, Maine. He played also with Red Soxs twin brothers, Jair and Xander Bogaerts on the team in 2009 SLWS. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXYkympvvyc
Does Sir Sid have any relatives?
He praised my creativity, though he spoke sarcastically...
by PBR me ASAP! on Feb 11, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
It's bothersome
even extremely bothersome, that the Orioles fucked up, acknowledge that they fucked up, and then play media games by making said acknowledgement on a Friday night when the news will get buried, potentially even by their own other news of saying no to Manny Ramirez.
Why do they feel like they need to play games like this?
Your cannonball trajectory, it always gave me hope
It helps that he's hiring all the same people!
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 11, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
I’m looking forward to a pool side interview.
But, yeah, his approach did not exactly work in Boston…one might think with time to ponder on things that his philosophies and mannerisms would change. They really do not seem to have changed at all.
Debatable. He built the majority of the 2004 team. If he got the Orioles that close, then I’d be very pleased.
Yes, he built a lot of the 2004 team…and so did Theo. I think it is a bit presumptuous to think that Duquette would have gotten there himself.
nobody gets anywhere by themselves
and the baseball operations staff members the non-hardcore fan doesn’t even know the names of are highly instrumental. Duquette doesn’t build the ‘04 Red Sox without Theo and whoever else was in the department at the time (not to mention ownership), and he won’t build whatever the Orioles become on his own either.
Your cannonball trajectory, it always gave me hope
not to mention
the work of companies that teams outsource to (…ahem…). There’s just too much noise to say what DD did in Boston and what he does in Baltimore are especially comparable. Somewhat, yes, but they are completely different situations.
Your cannonball trajectory, it always gave me hope
yeah, um just like the person in charge gets the blame
he gets the credit too. And you are assuming the FO hires like theo weren’t his own.
Considering that Duquette was fired before the 2002 season,
and that Epstein was hired by Lucchino, who became president after the 2002 season, I’m going to say it’s safe to assume that Duquette didn’t hire him.
One probably should not evaluate by cliche.
Sometimes those in charge are responsible for success or failure. Sometimes they are not.
I see no clear indication that Duquette could have brought Boston home a winner.
not evaluating by cliche
Pedro martinez and Manny Ramirez, on the top of my head, were signed by DD and were integral parts of a WS winning team. To make the assumption that because you didnt like what he did or didnt say about South Korea he will never help this team get better is stupid.
and traded for Shilling, Lowe, and Varitek
all integral parts of a winning team. I would argue that in two years time it is hard to make significant strides as a GM, and lot of the WS winning team in 04 was of DD’s assembling. they were also in first or second every year of his time at the head.
Right and all of those are important steps that Duquette along with those around him were able to do to make the team a winner.
However, it does not mean that he would have been able to take the team the extra step to becoming a World Series winner.
That just isn’t something we can assume.
not trying to
But, to be clear, he was dismissed from the team under new ownership, which I think is a different thing entirely than being fired. Everyone wants to look at his time in Boston negatively, but he did a pretty good job. Not the best GM ever, no, but upper tier yes. Everyone wants to dismiss anything the Os or DD does outright before there is any chance to prove that it has or hasn’t worked.
The concerns I had with DD is that the team appears to be built with 2002 in mind. I just see the construction as very peculiar and the elimination of certain players somewhat without much reason.
This is compounded by my discussions with other MLB executives and scouts. I do not know many at all, but those who I have talked to are kind of surprised how the team is being run.
It may be that DD knows the right way to go, but he is swimming against the tide in many ways as well as doing things that richer teams are already doing.
built with 2002 in mind means
what. He is building towards a perennial contender for the AL East? Okay, fine by me. As for the swimming against the tide, that by no means has to be a bad thing. I just want people to hold judgement a bit to see what does and doesn’t pan out. Am I saying I like all his moves? No. But I think he deserves the right to see what happens with them.
i feel that is more of a created narrative
that people have been going to than reality. At the very least he is examining every part of the organization for efficiency and making moves accordingly. Not sure McPhail did that, and a shake up from top to bottom could be at worse a sideways move, at best exactly what we needed. The major league moves have been underwhelming, but I’m not sure he was going to get a steal for anyone in the majors and beyond that there was nothing he could have done this offseason to the Majors to spring us in the right direction
I want to make it clear
that I do not dismiss DD. He could work out. But he won’t the “sign a big ticket free agent” in card in BAL.
Also, MacPhail did a great job in MIN before failing at CHI and BAL. Syd Thrift drafted Barry Bonds and did a great job in PIT. In fact, if any executive hired as a GM had success somewhere. So I’m not what’s the value of even pointing to DD’s “success” in Boston and Montreal.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
Syd Thrift is not a valid comparison
he was an old man who had totally checked out when the O’s brought him in. There were serious concerns about his senility.
That's kind of my point
of why it’s not useful to bring up past “success.”
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
But I'm saying yours is not a valid point.
Comparing past success of a senile old man is certainly not useful, but DD is nowhere near senility.
He MADE them a winner.
Making them a World Series winner I don’t think is necessarily that much of a reflection of front office skill. The playoffs are mostly a crapshoot, but he turned them into a team that competed for the playoffs almost every year he ran that team. That’s about all you can ask of front office.
why do his mannerisms in a press conference have anything to do with winning
I feel like its the same argument people want to make with Joe Flacco. Oh, he didnt answer that question the way I wanted him to, so he will never win with this team. Korea are being asses about the whole thing, and I have little doubt that their current ajitation will do literally nothing to negatively effect this team.
That's a great point about the Friday news dump.
Of course, the traditional Friday news dump would happen in the afternoon. A press release at 7:45pm on a Friday night? I think it’s fair to call that the bare minimum.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 11, 2012 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Some elaboration on what led to unintentionally failing to tender a status check (whatever that means) would have been solid information.
It’s really too bad there’s nobody in Baltimore who gets paid to find out this stuff.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 11, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
The local beat guys irritated me because they reported this as a since apology—repeating the language in the release—when there is no way a reporter can read that and think it is sincere.
I think they have been flat-footed the whole time with Seong-Min Kim.
The first he was referenced was Dan Duquette off-handedly referring at FanFest to signing “the top Korean amateur” or something, and everyone assumed he accidentally misspoke and was actually referring to that kid from New Zealand.
Then the whole thing came along from Keith Law and nobody can even agree how tall the kid is or what kind of velocity he has on his FB. To say nothing of the controversy over not following the appropriate policies. 20 years ago I’m sure The Sun could send someone over from a Tokyo bureau or something and see for themselves. Now they might not even have the coin to pay for international phone calls to South Korea.
I agree with you that the terseness of the statement seems to give the lie to its claims of sincerity. I feel like a genuine apology would have a little more information. They might have, for instance, said, “We committed this error in good faith. The organization is prepared to accept appropriate consequences for the mistake.” Something like that.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 11, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
I just have no clue why the local beat appears so unable to ask anyone over in Korea for more information. The whole MLB agreement with Korea and what would transpire could be an excellent story or two. You can write a whole piece on potential exploitation of other markets. People get awards for that kind of article.
Jon, they're all busy packing and flying to Florida.
When would they have time to write a story that’s not about spring training? :p
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 11, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I think there is a general annoyance that bloggers are running their flank on writing stories. In turn, these writers are trying to outblog the bloggers when their true skillset is actually able to crush bloggers in terms of writing real journalism.
I'll just say this...
It’s pretty obvious when everybody is writing tweets and/or articles off the same press release.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 11, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
no kidding
I got literally 6 fucking tweets all at once last night that all only said “Duquette says the Orioles are out on Manny”. Like, where’s the actual news journalism?
Your cannonball trajectory, it always gave me hope
of course...
that wouldn’t be terribly offensive from a timing perspective if your target was, say, the korean press, no?
"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition,from Moses to Sandy Koufax,YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I'M LIVING IN THE FUCKING PAST!"- Walter Sobchak
by j.q. higgins on Feb 11, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
So better than 4 in the morning where it might be possible to throw it in to morning internet news instead of at 10am when everyone has left the house and is working or at school?
i don't know what prime time for news is in south korea...
but everyone’s working and going to school at 10am on a saturday?
"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition,from Moses to Sandy Koufax,YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I'M LIVING IN THE FUCKING PAST!"- Walter Sobchak
by j.q. higgins on Feb 11, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
I would be surprised if the target was the Korean press.
More likely a private apology was offered to the KBO earlier in the week and a condition for the apology being accepted at all was that the O’s would issue a public mea culpa later.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 11, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
my personal feeling
who cares? I don’t. If DD pisses the entire world off by making the Orioles a perennial contender then so be it. everyday, everywhere, media games are played. this is nothing new and it ain’t going to stop.
I am not saying you shouldn’t care or to be upset that your team does it, but personally it doesn’t bother me as a fan of the Orioles.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
by Philly O's on Feb 11, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and just to add
I have no clue what DD did in Boston so I can’t compare this to what he did how many years ago. So I guess I have more of a clean slate with him.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
how on earth would a late night press release about the Orioles breaking the rules and getting banned from Korea turn the team into a contender?
well obviously
it wasn’t meant to be taken literally nor for this single situation.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
I am not trying to start something
and like I said, I am not trying to convince anyone otherwise – It’s just Andrew had his opinion and I have mine. A late night press release does not bother me like it does him.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
I think there is a concern that if you rub up wrong against an emerging market like Korea then other governing bodies in emerging markets may not be too keen to let you in. I think for this to occur, it spreads doubt that the Os could do an Andres Reiner project like the Rays figured out in Brazil.
so are we assuming
that this statement on a Friday night was the only contact the Orioles made with Korea in regard to this matter? I don’t. And I doubt the ban sticks. If it does and it hurts the Orioles, then yes, this will bother me. But at this point you guys can assume the worse and I can assume some intern forgot to submit some paperwork and all will be forgiven due to a misunderstanding.
BTW – do all other countries have this type rule? Does Brazil care if someone from MLB signs one of their 17 year old citizens?
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
What little reporting has indicated that only MLB and KBO are talking to each other. That KBO has had no communication with the Orioles.
Many countries have agreements in place. This is done to protect the national interests of the sport in said country. Places like New Zealand, Brazil, or Argentina do not, as far as I know, have these agreements in place. However, if a team gains a reputation for being particularly exploitative, then there could be an issue. I think Venezuela represents some of that. It was not uncommon for prospects to sign with the Astros for a quarter what other teams offered merely because the Astros were trusted in the community.
I think many people undervalue what relationships mean in these emerging markets. You cannot simply go in and buy everything because you will only see a fraction of the talent and will have to outspend other clubs with deeper pockets. It is a poor approach.
I agree
And I read that DD was setting up a program from Koreans that they sign to help them transition to the US yet respecting their culture. All of this said prior to the banning. I think this is great and I think something like this also helps with relationships – although I have no idea if other teams already do this and this is just another case of the O’s being a step behind. So I really think DD has respect for the KBO and that whoever screwed up didn’t do it on purpose or trying to go around the process.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
I don't think we're on a "some intern forgot to submit some paperwork" level of slight here.
That said, nobody on this continent really seems to know what’s going on.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 11, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
what is with this blog taking everything so literally
on a saturday?
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
it's saturday
sarcastic font is implied. I mean really, we should all be drinking and having fun, not delaying the trip to babies r us to buy diaper jeanie refills.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
agree 100%
That said, nobody on this continent really seems to know what’s going on.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
once you fuck up,
everything else they’ve done is stragiht by the book.
- you should acknowledge it
- you should apologize
- you should bury the above in a Friday news dump
That’s textbook PR. I’m not sure what you want from them?
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
I’m not sure what you want from them?
Make an announcement Monday morning instead of allowing it to get buried?
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
why?
why call extra attention to it? So keith law can make a snarky comment?
This is textbook professional damage control.
Why would you want them to make a bigger deal out of it than they need to?
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
It’s the “right” thing to do. But as I said below, everybody uses this strategy. I’m not angry with Duquette doing it.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
It’s the "right" thing to do.
Based on what? Seriously.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
giving the news a broader audience instead of allowing it to be buried on Friday.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
you're not answering the question.
please explain why is that the “right” way to do it?
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
Then I’m afraid that I don’t have an answer for you. I mean i can re-explain my answer. I think negative news should be given proper attention that it won’t get on a Friday news dump. More people will be informed on a Monday news cycle versus a Friday. And it’ll get more discussion via radio and columnists. I think a better informed public and healthy discussion is good in itself (i.e., the “right” thing to do).
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
okay, that's helpful at least
i thought you were saying it was morally right, which i felt was a stretch.
i don’t think what you’re advocating is right from a business standpoint. every business in the world attempts to avoid embarassment where it can; it’s good corporate sense to take your lumps, learn what you can from your mistakes, and then smartly move ahead rather than to wallow in your missteps. of course it’s necessary to make amends for transgressions and to fulfill whatever mea culpas your industry expects of you (e.g., in this case, issuing a statement of apology in addition to whatever phone calls have been made that we don’t know about), but then you turn the page.
By your logic, when the Yankees finally trade AJ Burnett, they should call a press conference to state that they really screwed the pooch with his $80M contract a few years ago. But they won’t because it would make them a laughingstock, and it would call unnecessary extra attention to AJ’s failure to live up to their expectations. Is that fair to him? Would that affect their ability to snag their next free agent, or perhaps better talent in the FO? It might.
People try to avoid embarrasment as well. if someone gets drunk at the company party and throws up on the copier, they aren’t expected to make a general announcement about it the following Monday at noon, but they are expected to replace the copier and maybe apologize to whomever had to clean it up. Asking them to be an instrument in their own humiliation doesn’t really do anyone any good.
Finally, the “negative news” you referred to has already been covered extensively. Major outlets, from Bloomberg and SI.com to USA Today and Business Insider have already reported on the story of Orioles scouts being banned in Korea. Local media and baseball blogs have weighed in as well. And as far as healthy discussion is concerned, there’s been a lot of it on this very site as to what should and shouldn’t have been done. So I don’t think in today’s 24-hour news-and-blog world, the difference between Friday night and Monday noon is a big deal for something as straightforward as an apology. If folks want to discuss it, they’ve already been doing so for a while.
If the apology gains Duquette a measure of breathing space with the officials in Korea without dragging the story on here for another few days, I say job well done.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
i don’t think what you’re advocating is right from a business standpoint.
I’m certainly not saying it’s a good business practice because it’s certainly not a good business practice. It’s standard PR for a reason. I understand people try to avoid embarrassment but this situation isn’t the same as a guy getting drunk and photo copying his ass. The O’s break an (informal?) rule existing between the MLB and Korean baseball league. I just think it’s a “good” thing to do for the reason I already mentioned. I’m not sure if that’s an moral argument, but I can I say I don’t care if it is a moral argument and I certainly don’t care to be lectured on my morals (as I’m sure you can understand). And I’m not saying the story hasn’t been covered. I’m just saying it wold get more press on Monday versus a Friday.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
and I certainly don’t care to be lectured on my morals (as I’m sure you can understand).
Or be lectured on the morals on this issue. Hope lectured doesn’t come off the wrong way.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
i thought we were leaving morals out of it
was that not clear from my first sentence?
I certainly did not mean to be lecturing you on morals… i only brought them up to say that I don’t think morals apply here.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
they shouldn't have to act differently
btw, I’ve already said I’m not angry at DD for doing the Friday trash news strategy since it’s standard PR.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
I guess
it just makes it disingenuous, which on the one hand is fine because I don’t really care how many rules the Orioles break so long as it is in effort to get better (though that in and of itself is in question with the Kim signing), but on the other hand a thing like this just goes into the bank of reasons to have less faith in the Orioles’ ability to stop Orioling up everything.
Your cannonball trajectory, it always gave me hope
I’m not a fan of the Friday news dump strategy to dodge accountability but everybody does it so I’m guess I’m not particularly pissed with Duquette.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
EVERYBODY does it
ZK’s right, it’s PR 101
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
i don't see anything disingenuous
by the timing of the statement or the statement itself.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
dude, you are so hollywood
lindsay lohan agrees with this. :)
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
what a complete joke of an organization...
if Duquette DH’d this season, there would be no impact on where the O’s finish in the AL East.
Jason Parks of Baseball Prospectus:
Why don’t the Orioles have Latin American talent on the roster?
Luis Ayala is Mexican
does that count? what about Andino? He was born in Miami, but isn’t he Latino?
I’m guessing he’s not asking why there are literally no LA players on the team, but why no impact players.
Andino
His Wikipedia page says that he’s “of Puerto Rican and Cuban descent.”
So I would say that he doesn’t belong in the “Latin American talent” pool of players.
Not my point.
I meant that, yes, Andino may have Latino parents, but he grew up in the states, played high school ball in the states, was scouted in the states, was taken in the Rule IV Draft. When Jason Parks talks about Latin American talent, I’m pretty sure that he’s talking about players who were scouted and signed in Latin America. He’s not talking about race, or at least, that’s not his focus.
how can you extract that from that single sentence?
is there an article attached, or are you inferring? i don’t necessarily disagree, but i’m not sure how you can make that distinction w/o more information.
Fair enough, I shouldn't have made that kind of assertion without knowing the context.
I found the article in question. Baltimore Sports and Life asked several authors if the O’s should go after Cespedes. Here’s Parks’ response:
The O’s only have a few Latin American players on the 40-man roster, so it seems unlikely that Cespedes would consider signing with a team where his acclimation to professional ball would be made even harder by the lack of LA players in the clubhouse and on the field. It brings up a much larger question, in my opinion: Why don’t the O’s have Latin American talent on the roster?
So, if we’re talking about signing Cespedes and his comfort level with the team, then it probably makes sense to put Andino in that pool of Latin American players. I can’t find anything about him speaking Spanish, but he definitely has an accent. Wikipedia lists him among notable Cuban-Americans, for what that’s worth.
I was addressing the question that gio2chat posted, the one that Parks poses at the end of that quote: “Why don’t the O’s have Latin American talent on the roster?” In that case, I’m pretty sure that Andino should be grouped with American players because he was scouted and drafted in the states.
I hope that clears it up. Sorry for the confusion there.
Maybe Duquette is changing this organisation to a ' Multikulti Orioles '!
mexican, korean, venezuelan, taiwanese, new zealand, brazilian, colombian, guatemalan, curacao, japanese, etc…..
I think he's just looking for talent where it might be cheaper or undervalued.
Could be wrong though, I wouldn’t blame him for looking to re-brand the O’s as a more international organization.
I'm officially no longer attending high school in...
24 hours and 47 minutes. Woopee!
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
I do not wish to count the time since I was officially no longer attending high school.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 11, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
your number it a lot less that mine
My ten-year reunion was 20 months ago. Not that I went to it or anything.
I've been out almost 5 years and
I still have bad dreams of having to go back
Baseball nerd
by Michael18 on Feb 11, 2012 1:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I stopped going after my 25th
all the people I cared about in HS were either dead or such insufferable snobs by then, I said, “That’s it. I’m done.” Haven’t seen any since, and I graduated in ‘73. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know I’m old.
well
at least you didn’t hang out with the dead crowd.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
ha
just re-read your post. mine doesn’t really make sense now. oh well. that’s it, I’m done.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
I'm with ya, DJ.
Class of ‘73 as well. Never went to a reunion until 2 years ago. The people I liked in HS were still OK. The ones I didn’t like hadn’t changed.
"Work fast. Throw strikes. Change speeds." Ray Miller
Yes....yes, I believe it was.
Thanks for asking.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 11, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Way to go!
No on to akward Valentine’s day…
Get some.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 11, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Remember the danger of office romances...
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
by J(O's)elskIL on Feb 12, 2012 1:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Melewski just wrote that Os Scouts are barred from South Korea by KBO...
Ugh…how would a baseball sanctioning group have power over who is allowed in or out of the country? Obviously, scouts are banned from KBO sanctioned events.
I'm sure they can't actually ban anyone from the whole country
but if we’re banned from all the relevant events, thats effectively the same thing. I can’t imagine why we’d go there otherwise.
Well, it hurts, but you can see these kids in international play and hold try outs unless the KBA decides to tell the kids they cannot work out for the Os.
I wonder if Oriole scouts were wearing Oriole hats to games or something!
Just imagine a cold war between the KBA and Orioles international scouts…
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
didn't we already know this
or is it just confirmed now?
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
gotcha
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
"We Are (Not) Family"
Sorry if this is a repost, but didn’t see it anywhere else. Interesting that one of the first things Guthrie posted after the trade was:
Jeremy Guthrie @JGuthrie46
Enjoyed my 1st visit to Denver. Had pleasure of sitting down w/owner Dick Monfort & GM Dan O’Dowd to talk family & @Rockies baseball. (1/2)
I'm not sure what your point is
is he supposed to just sulk and complain that he’s not on the Orioles anymore the whole time?
by kba26 on Feb 11, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
When I read that tweet, I mostly wondered if Guthrie ever had dinner with MacPhail or Angelos.
Probably not.
If memory serves, the only Orioles players in recent years who have met Angelos are Roberts and Markakis.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 11, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
hahahaha...
i was also totally thinking this.
"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition,from Moses to Sandy Koufax,YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I'M LIVING IN THE FUCKING PAST!"- Walter Sobchak
by j.q. higgins on Feb 11, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions
Cespedes
is just another Jones it seems. And an unproven Jones at that. Seems crazy to offer this guy much…let the Marlins have him.
Soler makes so much sense for the O's.
They don’t have any outfield prospects that profile as anything more than 4th outfielders. As long as the money isn’t crazy, they should be in on Soler.
Would it be better?
How does developement work with Int’l FAs? Do they sign a MiL contract? How many options do they have?
I guess my question is (I just found out I don’t know): How long do we have to develop him as a player?
If we sign him to a 7 year deal for say $20 MM (a number I heard) is that it? After 7 years we either re-sign or release?
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
by J(O's)elskIL on Feb 12, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
Let's see.
Jose Iglesias signed with the Red Sox in 2009 as a 20-year old. He signed a major league deal for 4 years, $14.25M. According to Baseball-Reference, his contract runs through 2013, but he will not be a free agent until after the 2017 season.
Leonys Martin signed with the Rangers in 2011 as a 22-year old out of Cuba. He signed a major league deal for 5 years, $15.5M. B-R doesn’t say when he will be a free agent.
Aroldis Chapman signed with the Reds in 2010 as a 22-year old. He signed a major league deal for 5 years, $25.25M with a player option for a sixth year at $5M. His option is for the 2015 seasons, and he can become a free agent after the 2016 season. His contract is actually a bit more complicated than the others, so you should check it out.
Juan Miranda signed with the Yankees in 2006 as a 24-year old. He signed for 4 years, $2.07M. His contract ran through 2010, and Tampa Bay now holds his rights until after the 2016 season. I think his original deal was a minor league contract. Not entirely sure.
Dayan Viciedo signed with the White Sox in 2008 as a 20-year old. He signed a major league deal for 4 years, $10M. His contract runs through 2012, and he can become a free agent after 2017.
Both Yonder Alonso and Yunel Escobar entered the Rule IV Amateur Draft. Alonso went to college in the states, so he was drafted like a normal college player. I’m not really sure why Escobar was in the draft, but it looks like he defected with the intention of entering the draft. He was drafted in the second round and signed for $0.475M. Seems weird.
What can we expect from Soler? Well, 2012 will be his age-19 season (late birthday in 1992), so we can see that Miranda isn’t a good comp for him. That leaves us with Iglesias, Martin, Chapman and Viciedo. Baseball American’s Jim Callis believes that Soler will top Martin’s deal, so we should expect a five-year deal, and maybe a sixth year player option like Chapman’s deal. If he is run on the same schedule as Chapman has been, we would expect him to become a free agent after his age-25 season in 2018. But Soler probably needs more time in the minors, so we should see his service time delayed.
In terms of value, we can estimate Soler’s worth based on a comment in that Baseball America article. Callis compared Soler to 2011 draftee Bubba Starling, and he said that both players will be in the 11-20 range of Baseball America’s 2012 Top 100 Prospects list. Using Victor Wang’s research on prospect value, we know that, on average, hitting prospects in the Top 11-25 range are worth $25.1M of surplus value. I would argue that Soler is worth a bit more more to the Orioles because they are currently weak in outfield prospects, which could result in them spending more on free agent outfielders in the future – but that’s certainly debatable. The long and short of it is that Soler is a worthwhile risk at $25M and he’s a relative bargain if he’ll sign for $20.
Note: All ages are seasonal age for season during which the player made his pro debut. For example, Iglesias was 19 when he signed in Septemeber 2009, but he wouldn’t make his debut until his age-20 season in 2010.
Hmm.
I forgot about Noel Argüelles. He signed with the Royals in 2009 as a 20-year old.* He signed a major league contract for 5 years and $6.9M. His contract runs through 2014. B-R doesn’t say when he can become a free agent, but he hasn’t spent any time in the majors yet. Just looks like more evidence that 20-year old Cuban defectors get 5-year contracts.
*He would have debuted in 2010 as a 20-year old, but he experienced shoulder pain that necessitated surgury and kept him out for the season.
The Orioles have to sign the Big Cuban Kid Soler!
If we don’t get the big Cuban kid ’ number 10: Soler ’, then we must wait for the 6-foot-2, five tool, Hulk , Yasiel Puig and maybe also… El Rey de Jonrones Despaigne! We are dreaming!
Cuban prospect Yasiel Puig is stronger than Cespedes!
Yasiel Puig Valdés is a strong athletic outfielder from Cienfuegos, Cuba.
Yasiel Puig, 21y/o,6-foot-2,210 pounds, is a five tool prospect, that can play all three of the outfield positions. He is a power hitter, with above average speed, defensive tools and a very strong arm. Puig had a tremendous 2010-2011 season, hitting for .330AVG with 17HRs and drove in 47 runs in 327 AB with .581 SLG during the Serie Nacional 50 in Cuba, deserving a selection in the National team of Cuba at a very young age.
He also played at the IBAF Junior World Championship 2008 in Canada, deserving a selection in the IBAF Junior Allstar as outfielder. Last year at the World Port Tournament(WPT) in Rotterdam, Holland, Yasiel Puig and RHP Yadier Pedroso were the most important players of the Cuban national team.
During this tournament the Cuban pitching prospect, LHP Gerardo Concepción, now Cubs, took the chance to abandoned the Cuban team. So, Puig being a decisive force, had no opportunity to defect from the Cuban team. Puig tried to leave Cuba at the end of the year, but was caught by the Cuban authorities. Yasiel Puig is still not playing with the Cienfuegos team.
Huh, interesting.
Do you have a link to your info?
I really want to see some Cuban baseball. I’ve heard great things about their games.
There are more super talented prospects in Cuba than Cespedes!
SeanP, It’s strange that you(or Orioles fans) don’t know Yasiel Puig or heard about him. Or maybe i know him because i’m baseball fan from Curacao, the Caribbean.
About Cuban baseball: the Cuban Serie Nacional has not a great level as in the past. Sometimes, I look at Cuban games searching for a good prospect or some national players that’s gonna play against our Curacao team or Dutch team. A lot of times, i’m in Europe and I follow them also, when they come to play in Holland at the Haarlemse Honkbalweek or WPT Rotterdam. I know them very well! In the Caribbean, Cuba and Venezuela are our biggest rivals and in Europe, Italy is the most important rival of our Dutch team.
About my info? I saw them played in Holland and also gathered more information about them on the net. But i follow also prospects of other countries!
Number 14 at 4:19 min; at bat Yasiel Puig!
Yes, he looks like an Adam Jones.
Really, a lot. But what if we could trade the Real Adam Jones for prospects, and then immediately sign another Adam Jones to a six-year, $50M deal? Real Adam is asking for $7.4M in his second year of arbitration eligibility as a non-Super 2. That means that he thinks his free agent value is about $12M annually. MLBTR projected his 2012 salary at $5.8M, which would mean that he should get $10M annually as a free agent. He’s probably expecting a deal for about 4 years and $40 – 50M. We don’t have any big centerfield prospects on the way, so why not take the chance pick up some value from Real Adam via trade and sign Other Adam at a similar price?
that actually sounds really smart.
except that we would be out 50 million if he can’t hit MLB pitching…and not have a centerfeilder. but it’s a good plan if he is just as good as AJ. I think you need to have them both for a while to know for sure.
That might not be a bad idea.
The O’s don’t seem keen to trade Jones right now anyway, and Cespedes could take over in left until he proves himself and/or Jones is traded. Nick Faleris suggested in his write-up of Cespedes that the O’s could give him half a season at Triple-A to get acclimated to his new lifestyle, so that could work out too.
But if they were to keep both players, the O’s would be losing some of Jones’ trade value, and they’re still going to lose him in two years unless they’re okay with signing him to a $50M extension too. Plus, they would be diminishing Reimold’s playing time, which is a shame because Reimold earned a starting job and we ought to find out what he has to offer. And really, I just wouldn’t mind seeing Endy Chavez in center for half a season if it meant that the O’s were taking an educated, calculated risk to help better the franchise.
but in the end Reimold suffers
isn’t that always the way? That or we are taking a big risk. Unless we really like Endy Chavez…
Well, Reimold doesn't suffer if we trade Jones.
And don’t get me wrong, I like Endy Chavez in a “Yeah, I wouldn’t mind watching that guy play center for a season or two as a backup plan” way, not a “Endy Chavez is the the next Paul Blair, lock him up for six years” kinda way.
I feel like we have alot of backup plans in action
espicially on the pitching staff. we do have 45 pitchers on the 40man roster riight? But what about Cespes, Jones, Reimold all splitting time in the feild and DH? that way they all get their bats and get to rest, until the trade deadline. then we would have a gadge on Cespes and his handling of MLB pitchers. Or is it something where if we sign him and he can’t handle mlb pitchers (or the transition or whatever) then we have to trade Jones anyway because we can’t afford to keep them both?
Yeah, I don't think that the O's can afford both of them.
Or really, they can’t afford to get Cespedes and keep Jones past his arbitration years. If Cespedes can’t handle it, then they’re probably stuck with paying $10M annually to a bench bat. But if it works out well, we’ll be getting Curtis Granderson for a lot less than the real Granderson. I don’t know.
So he got an offer of 6/40 from the Marlins
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
by J(O's)elskIL on Feb 12, 2012 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
So, we didn't win states
but we took a pretty good run at the team that did, Winters Mill. Wow, they’re good.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Winters Mill? Really?
That’s where my sister went. I thought it was still Westminster High’s kid brother, but I guess it’s all grown up.
Thanks
They hired the former coach of Western Maryland (OK, McDaniel) and he’s done wonders with the program. And he’s a Shore boy, too. :)
But man, if our heavyweight who’s ranked #7 in the state in our division had been able to wrestle, there’s a possibility we might have won it all.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
And it was held at North Point HS in Charles County
They have a turf football field, built into a bowl, with a stadium that holds 10,000. Place almost looked like a community college.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
I taught at Francis Scott Key HS for a few years. (same county)
Winters Mill has some beasty kids. No shame losing to them at all.
"Roberts is unconscious!!!!" - Jim Hunter, after Brian Roberts hits his second HR of the night. 9/21/09
They beat Owings Mills 66-4 in the final
Damn.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
by duck on Feb 11, 2012 11:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Anybody who can lay it into a Guy Pritzker squad that hard has got some game.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 12, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
Still something to be really proud of.
Way to go!
is there a chance that between 2009 and 2011
Ayala was fitted with some kind of bionic device that made him a better pitcher? Possibly DD signed him for the secret just to get Tillman and Matusz fitted with the same technology?
Nah, we would've also signed Bartolo Colon if that were the case.
It’s amazing that his arm still works, and he did have crazy surgery to make his comeback.
Sometimes, I just really love a good scathing EW.com movie review
Was “Phanton Menace” as bad as we remember? Yup.
There’s so little that is immersive. Lucas really loves his digital matte backgrounds, and they always look extremely busy despite the fact that nothing is really happening. On Tatooine, people walk around aimlessly, like his only direction to the extras was "slower, and with less intent," and you start to get the sense that all that floating traffic on Coruscant is on a loop, like in old cartoons. It’s almost as if Lucas felt that the things happening on-screen didn’t have to be interesting just as long as there were enough of them.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Maybe I’m too invested in Star Wars – I did just buy four new Star Wars books today – but I can see the good things in the Phantom Menace. I know that it doesn’t touch IV and I understand that it lacks a lot of the plot depth and intrigue of V and VI, but my feelings about it are really mostly positive. Maybe I was too young when I saw it the first time, and maybe I’m biased by the fact that my experience of seeing it for the first time – with my parents and my brother in some fancy downtown theater – is a really happy memory for me.
It started going downhill with the opening scroll
A trade war? Really? THAT’S the beginning of the Star Wars saga? And as the article states, I just don’t need to see Anakin at age 9.
But I’m glad it’s a happy childhood memory for you, much like going to see “Empire” when I was 12 was for me.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
and I think it's a comment on neoliberalism
but it’s not well done. I think the other 2 of the new ones were better than PM, if only by a little.
WHY HELLO THERE
"Roberts is unconscious!!!!" - Jim Hunter, after Brian Roberts hits his second HR of the night. 9/21/09
WHAZZZZZZUUUUUUPPPP?
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
My boyfriend said
“are you drunk posting on Camden Chat? "
I told him no. It was a lie.
by Stacey on Feb 12, 2012 12:06 AM EST via Android app up reply actions 2 recs
Please post
responsibly.
"Work fast. Throw strikes. Change speeds." Ray Miller
by Zeke McGeek on Feb 12, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
You might not have been drunk posting at the exact second he asked you.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 12, 2012 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
don't get me wrong
it was definitely badass, but I don’t know. I just didn’t love it.
Might have something to do with spending 5 hours at the hospital last night watching a doctor stuff stuff back into my wife’s hand. Gore might not have been the best choice for the evening.
broke up a scuffle between our dogs the way they always tell you not to
tried to pry their mouths apart and one of them chomped down on her finger. Seems like there’s no nerve or bone damage and it’s just a matter of making sure it doesn’t get infected. They don’t like to stitch dog bites because they have a tendency to abscess, so they did something that seemed a lot more painful and certainly more disgusting to watch than stitches. There was a lot of cutting with scissors and scalpels and then pressing directly on the cuts with some metal thing. Seemed like some kind of civil war triage. They also tried to do it without local anesthesia which I’m still baffled about.
On the plus side I got to hear some awesome patient history in the area around us – Friday night is pretty bustling at GW hospital. Lots of drug addicts.
My two dogs got into a fight once
and one required stitches. The vet put pink stitches on my male dog and for a month everybody kept saying what a cute girl when I took him for a walk. But he is neutered sooo……..
Baseball nerd
Unsurprisingly
my wife had much more damage than either of the dogs. Just a couple minor punctures on our one dog.
Modernize this franchise.
Fangraphs listed the O’s as old schools as terms of their usage of analytics. But but but Duquette has discovered the value of OBP!
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
They published a newer version of this article because the author had a problem with his own definitions.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
by J(O's)elskIL on Feb 12, 2012 2:14 AM EST up reply actions
Interesting
He still grouped the teams together the same way but he did put a different title on the groups.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
The rankings stay more or less the same.
What’s more interesting (to me) is his disscusion about what sabermetrics is(/ are?)
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
by J(O's)elskIL on Feb 12, 2012 2:33 AM EST up reply actions
Sabermetrics the study of baseball statistics, baseball scouting, baseball business, and anything yet-known or missed by myself
I would have gone with, “Sabermetrics is the application of analytical methods to the study of baseball statistics, baseball scouting, baseball business, and anything yet-known or missed by myself.” And analytical methods don’t necessary have to be statistical in nature.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
yeah,
I’m sure glad he can tell what kind of team the Orioles are after DD has been on the job for three months!!
Must have been a highly scientific ranking on his part, backed by all kinds of facts.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
He completely admits it's based on his perception and not anything remotely scientific.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
then i don't find it a particularly worthwhile read
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
The D'Backs' SBN site got an interview with their GM, Kevin Towers.
How nice would that be if we had a GM/ Exec. VP of Baseball Ops. that was blogger friendly?
Or media friendly at all?
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Well, the O's gave Camden Chat some press passes to games last year, I think.
And EME got to do the blogger thing at Fan Fest. Has anyone called Duquette’s office to see if he’ll do an interview? I feel like we could come up with some great questions for him. I have a lot of things that I would want to ask to give us a better grasp for his intentions for this offseason.
The Orioles not really knowing what to do with bloggers pre-dates Duquette's time in the FO.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 12, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Dan Duquette did a Q&A with Baltimore Sports and Life
It was an email thing, not a live interview, but Duquette did it.
They probably don't swear as much as we do
or have as many arguments about dumplings and gay marriage. I don’t think any O’s FO personnel would touch this place with a 50 ft pole.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Baltimore Sun and MASN reporters don't get knocked down because of commenters.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 12, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
DRays Bay got to interview Friedman, I believe mutlitple times.
Have you seen their gamethreads? Friedman basically said nothing, though, and I imagine most GMs would do the same thing. An interview would still be interesting, though.
I sent you an invite to the keeper league.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
by J(O's)elskIL on Feb 12, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
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