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Bird Food: Ejecting the Warp Core

ESPN published two articles on the state of the Orioles. And Dan Duquette gave an interview to CBS Baltimore which complemented these two articles nicely. In this edition of Bird Food, I look at all three articles together in order to foster discussion on where the Orioles are now and where they're going. First, let's take a look at David Schoenfield's article on ESPN.

Schoenfield assesses whether the Orioles have a core of players to compete in the near future. Who is that core? Schoenfield points to Nick Markakis, Adam Jones, Matt Wieters, Chris Tillman and Brian Matusz with Jeremy Guthrie and Brian Roberts providing "old head" leadership. He forgets Zach Britton and Jake Arrieta as part of the youth movement and JJ Hardy as part of the "old head" group but I think these can be forgivable sins. What is the value of this core? Schoenfield gives his quick assessment.

Star-divide

Nick Markakis

He's still a good player who never misses a game; he just didn't turn into that 30-homer, 100-walk monster to anchor a lineup.

Matt Wieters

Wieters appears to be more of a complementary hitter on a playoff team (albeit very valuable production for a catcher).

Brian Matusz

But we have no idea what to expect from Matusz moving forward.

Adam Jones

Regardless, here's the bottom line: A guy with a .319 on-base percentage cannot be the centerpiece of your lineup.

Where does that leave the Orioles? Not in a good place according to Schoenfield. He writes, "I just don't think Wieters, Jones and Markakis are going to be the three best players on Baltimore's next playoff team." And he's right. Two wild card pitchers (with Tillman) and three good, but not great, position players aren't enough to build a team around even when including Arrieta and Britton.

Luckily, Schoenfield doesn't end on a nihilistic note and points to Dylan Bundy and Manny Machado as part of the next core. And given the youth of Britton and promise of Schoop, the Orioles have four pieces to build the next playoff team. At this point, that's where organizational resources and efforts should be placed because, unfortunately, tachyons are flooding the warp core Captain. The old core isn't going to bring a pennant to Camden Yards. If they can't do that, then the organization's overall philosophy should be guided toward building the best team around Machado, Bundy, et al. That means every player on the big league roster, with the exception Britton, should be open for business.

Jim Bowden suggested just that in his article along with other strategies. Overall, Bowden mentions five strategies including stop signing gap players (not that it's bad advice but I feel like noting that Bowden was the king of signing stop gap players like Christian Guzman and Dimtri Young with the Nats) and selectively signing elite free agents, which is ridiculous since the O's don't operate under fiscal conditions to make such signings sensible. For example, Bowden advocated the O's signing Prince Fielder, never mind that he just signed for a ridiculous amount of money, and going after Matt Cain next off season. Bowden's best recommendation is converting valuable major league assets on the current team into high ceiling prospects. He writes, "But the Orioles need to exhaust their trade potential in order to multiply their number of elite players eventually at the major league level. So it's time to trade them and start stockpiling high-ceiling prospects, just as San Diego did by trading a good young player in Mat Latos to get multiple top prospects back." Not surprisingly, Bowden gave the O's offseason a F on his XM radio show where he is currently grading the off seasons of all teams. I think Bowden is partially giving the O's a F because he's giving grades based on what GMs did to improve the team now. And in the case of the Orioles, that's the wrong grading criteria since the O's should be judged in terms of what is being done to build the next core.

Unfortunately, that's the heart of the O's problem. The next core isn't the top priority. Instead, the O's are still focusing on the current core. In the interview on CBS, Duquette mentions reaching .500 in 2012 as his immediate goal. But teams bereft of talent can't build the current core while building the next core and be successful. That's usually a recipe for doing both poorly. But Dan Duquette will try anyways damn it and I suspect ownership won't let him do it any other way since he was probably hired under premise that he could bring a .500 team immediately. So what's Dan's plan?

Well, in the CBS interview, he immediately mentions that his core competency is that he's a good judge of talent and he's a good "systems guy" in terms of implementing "processes" to develop talent. He mentions the Brewers a couple of times as a model of how he wants to win and points to the hirings of Fred Ferreira, Rick Peterson, and Brady Anderson as conduits to reach the Brewers method of growing stars. Each of these guys will bring an unique strength - Ferreira:scouting, Peterson:pittching, Anderson:conditioning - which will help develop talent properly, according to Duquette.

And, of course, Duquette mentions international scouting as a way to build a good farm system and eventually a good major league team (go to around the 4:30 minute mark). Certainly international scouting is a good way to build a farm system, but Duquette's execution has been focused on older, Asian players, which again, signal moves to complement the current core. Not that these are bad signings in terms of expected value and salary, but they're moves to rearrange deck chairs on the Titanic. I hope Ferriera, Peterson, and Anderson make vast improvements in player development. And Duquette didn't mention him in the interview, but the addition of Stephen Walters, an Economics professor at Loyola, is a good move. He's giving good advice on how to economically evaluate talent which is an important asset. But bringing in more player talent to the pipeline is just as important as hiring the right guys to coach them. How is Dan Duquette going to address that issue? At this point, I'm not sure, and frankly, that's what's really depressing. If he wants to build the Dayton Moore or Brewers way, it's going to be a long process. And if he wants to aid the process, well, tachyon particles are flooding the warp core Captain, please eject it.

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You are my brother Schoenfield! We are on the same level!

A bigger emphasis on international scouting, where the Orioles have lagged behind for years.

by gio2chat on Feb 3, 2012 6:03 AM EST reply actions  

I have to wonder

how much emphasis ownership has put on finally just ending the losing season streak in order to just stop the bad publicity it brings. Not that a single 82 win season is either a) particularly likely at this point, or b) would stop the criticism of the ownership, especially if its flukey and/or not built upon.

Your cannonball trajectory, it always gave me hope

by Andrew_G on Feb 3, 2012 7:22 AM EST reply actions  

depends

on the philosophy that ownership feels will stop the losing. Clearly win now doesn’t work, AM’s half assed rebuild didn’t work, and a majority of fans and basically all the national “experts” don’t think what DD is doing is going to work. The only thing they can hope for is that pitching staff doesn’t fall flat or their faces like they did last year and their defense improves. I have to think that this along with positive results of player development would be considered a step in the right direction but would most likely not keep K-Law’s snarkiness at bay.

by Philly O's on Feb 3, 2012 8:14 AM EST up reply actions  

not sure he has been given enough time to show what he (DD) is doing

he took over the team after FA started, and has already implemented FO changes. DD has acquired more than a few young international players to compliment Wada, and I really dont see what anyone would have him do better. Trying to make the tea, better now does not always equal making the future more bleak. Adding a player, like Wada for example, does not affect the future, unless he becomes trade bait in the future, in which case he only increases our chances in the future. Meanwhile, he could help us win a couple more games this year

by mdterps0325 on Feb 3, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree with this

and I think he has done exactly what I expected anybody in his situation could do so far. Even LaCava wasn’t going to turn Jones into A prospects. So as much as I agree with the birdman & Andrew_G’s of the group that a total rebuild is what is best for the team, I don’t think trading Jones or Markakis for B prospects that might become a bullpen arm once the O’s are competitive is not the right thing to do. It is what it is.

by Philly O's on Feb 3, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

not sure he has been given enough time to show what he (DD) is doing

From what I gather in the interview, he’s trying to emulate the Brewers. Strong farm system which will pump out stars and then complement through free agency and trades. That’s what he’s trying to do.

Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"

by birdman on Feb 3, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

isn't that what every team is trying to do

build a strong farm system, and then use FA to compliment a missing piece via FA? except well the Orioles before this year.

by Philly O's on Feb 3, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

To a certain extent, yes.

Every team is trying to build a good farm system. How much they’re leaning on the farm system alone to provide core players varies. The Yankees and Red Sox will dip into free agency. The Ray and Twins, not so much.

Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"

by birdman on Feb 3, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

well yeah

the red sox and yankees (PHL, LAA?) are different animals all togehter.

by Philly O's on Feb 3, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

but anyways

i just hope DD can get the O’s to the point where the first part gets done in the next couple of years.

by Philly O's on Feb 3, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

sure.

Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"

by birdman on Feb 3, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

the thing with PHI and BOS, they have rich owners, but they also put up huge revenues every year.

i’m not sure the exact numbers but i think Fenway has sold out every game since 2003 or something, and CBP has sold out close to 200 straight. Not to mention all the shirts, jerseys and hats these teams sell.

Baltimore has a rich owner (even if he is a scrooge with is money) but they do not generate the annual revenue these other giants do.

by Jokes & Burns on Feb 3, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

phn

pink hat nation – basically all of the bandwagon sox fans that buy pink hats.

by Philly O's on Feb 3, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

how much emphasis ownership has put on finally just ending the losing season streak in order to just stop the bad publicity it brings.

This.

Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"

by birdman on Feb 3, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

In a weird way I wonder if the 14 years just makes it even worse,

as I bet you PGA would rather get to 246 wins in 3 seasons via 82-82-82 than 70-80-96.

Either way you look at it you lose…

If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever

by dfa on Feb 4, 2012 1:39 AM EST up reply actions  

heh, yeah.

Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"

by birdman on Feb 4, 2012 3:51 AM EST up reply actions  

player development is also putting some Orioles players in the winterleagues!

we have also some lazy players in the O’s organisation, it’s true ! Sorry, I have to say it ! they don’t want to play winterleague baseball.

by gio2chat on Feb 3, 2012 7:59 AM EST reply actions  

Who has turned down a winter league assignment?

I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8

by O'sFan21 on Feb 3, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Brady Anderson

Jim Duquette was on the radio this week and flat out blamed Brady Anderson for a number of injuries the Orioles experienced last year. He wouldn’t name any names though. Seemed like kind of a strange thing to say and he wasn’t too keen on him being an official part of the organization now.

by brek on Feb 3, 2012 8:46 AM EST reply actions  

He obviously is either full of shit or has some kind of personal issue with him.

He’s the only person saying anything negative about him.

I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8

by O'sFan21 on Feb 3, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

very weird

Jimbo usually goes out of his way to be friendly on XM. I thought he based Brady in a friendly way, but it was still weird. And his explanation was kind of weird too.

Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"

by birdman on Feb 3, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

corroboration!

So, you heard him talking about this on his XM show too?

He often does interviews on the local sports radio station here (it’s the only time they talk Orioles) and that’s where I heard it.

by brek on Feb 3, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup, I was driving around when I heard this interview on XM.

Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"

by birdman on Feb 3, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

wieters is already near the top in catchers

and getting better. to say he is complimentary is horseshit.

by mdterps0325 on Feb 3, 2012 9:15 AM EST via Android app reply actions  

Ehhh

He’s certainly not much more than a complementary bat at this point. I hope he continues to get better, but he’s not a guy any contending team is building a lineup around at this point.

I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8

by O'sFan21 on Feb 3, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah,

he did say “complementary hitter” there; in a contending lineup, he’s probably your 6 hitter at most. Not that he can’t continue to improve, of course, and the defensive value is considerable.

"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver

by Vuff on Feb 3, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Error, Warp Core ejection systems off line.

Core breach imminent, all hands abandon ship, all hands abandon ship.

EXPLOSION

by Steven_G on Feb 3, 2012 9:24 AM EST reply actions  

disagree?

or are Ya just being silly

by mdterps0325 on Feb 3, 2012 9:31 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

I can't really disagree

I just don’t see it happening unless PA stops being PA.

Otherwise, I am being silly as usual. Plus, I love a good Star Trek reference.

by Steven_G on Feb 3, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions  

We've reached the point where someone has to heroically sacrifice himself or herself to trigger the manual ejection.

"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP

by Eat More Esskay on Feb 3, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Sorry, Mr. LaForge...

But I’m separating the Saucer and getting the heck out of here…

But seriously, you get rid of these guys and you get your prospects, call 2012 and possibly 2013 a total bust. Who do you put on the field at all? Will fans turn out to see a year of minor league guys playing at a major league level or do you try and fill it with affordable stop gaps and more of the same players, guaranteeing 100 losses and the number one pick two years in a row.

But then how far are we from competeing? Sure Edwin Jackson wouldn’t be part of the solution, but could be a solid number 3 or 4, which is better than the crop of potential number 5s that we have, but it would be a step in the right direction… if the organization hadn’t proven itself so dysfunctional over the past 15 years that even mediocre free agents are now avoiding us like the Tellarian Plague (or that genetic modification that made the Klingons all smooth-headed, that right, an Enterprise reference).

So is it time to simply let the whole thing blow up and start a new with the Enterprise-F? Can we go back in time and recast Chris Pine as a young Cal Ripken? Have I taken a metaphor too far? Unfortunately, it will be business as usual this year, and if we can flip these guys for some good prospects, then absolutely, let’s do it. Because there’s simply no way we can make this team successful, so let’s be as bad as we can be and see who’s number one on the draft board next year. Come 2018… lookout! These moves may finally pay off… or we could have another Matusz on our hands.

by Steven_G on Feb 3, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Who do you put on the field at all?

Manny Ramirez of course! I would personally go with good minor league vets. Dan Duquette plucked Brian Daubach as a minor league vet for example. Dan Johnson, who just signed with some team recently, would have been a good pick up for that scenario.

Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"

by birdman on Feb 3, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

If Dan Johnson were ever an Oriole,

I would buy his jersey T-shirt the day he signed.

"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver

by Vuff on Feb 3, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

There's no such thing as taking a nerdy metaphor too far.

Although I’m not exactly an unbiased source here.

"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP

by Eat More Esskay on Feb 3, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

also

they all assume we could get elite prospects with the core we have. We couldn’t. AJ isn’t getting all that much, neither is marsukas, Roberts, anyone except wieters. And anyone who wants to trade a player who is improving off a ~5 war season and is 25 is dumb. I also don’t see how it’s feasible to work on the core and the future at the same time, the teams that win have been doing it for years. The piling on of negative comments about the offseason has to do with the underwhelming nature of it, but I’m not sure what home run steal there was to be had this year, and maybe nearly staying put was a fine idea

by mdterps0325 on Feb 3, 2012 9:30 AM EST via Android app reply actions  

I meant how it* isn't feasible

as in I think we can work on both the present and future at the same time

by mdterps0325 on Feb 3, 2012 9:32 AM EST via Android app up reply actions  

The teams that win all the time are the Yankees and Red Sox

They are able to do it because they have loads and loads of money to spend.

by Holymittens on Feb 3, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions  

They also have the prestige to attract good players

Who they then overspend on, which they can afford to do because of the boat loads of money you can make by not being the laughingstock of the league. If I felt we could attract some good free agents to fill the 4 or 5 gaping holes on our roster, then it might not be a bad idea to keep Jonesie and Kakes. Fielder would have filled one of those gaps, but you also need to fill 2-3 pitching spots with quality guys for the top of the rotation, fact is, we can’t attract these guys so we’re kind of stuck taking chances on guys like Reynolds, occasionally pulling off a deal for a guy like Hardy, and then trying to grow our own stars, which is where we put all of our eggs last year for the pitching staff, and frankly, it didn’t work. I don’t think this is a league where you can sit back and wait for your arms to grow. You have to spend some money on the Free Agency to compliment that which you grow at home, but we’re stuck in a losing cycle that is really hard to break out of.

by Steven_G on Feb 3, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

they all assume we could get elite prospects with the core we have

Yeah, this is a good point and I mean to say something about this but I had to wrap things up since I needed to go to bed. I certainly don’t think trading Jones et al will bring much. I never said trading the core will fix the new core because that simply isn’t true. But trading the current cure can at least add to it small ways. I don’t think the O’s could pull blue chip prospects but they could acquire some interesting B and B- guys (and probably not many of those). And really young B or B- can develop into interesting prospects as they develop. So yes, you can work on both the new and old core (and teams like the Red Sox and Rays do exactly that), but in the O’s case, it’s counterproductive. I don’t think the O’s should trade guys for the sake of trading. If everybody is offering 26 year old prospects with little upside for guys like Jones, then it’s better to hold onto to them and maybe collect the picks.

Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"

by birdman on Feb 3, 2012 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

totally agree

I was dissapointed that we didn’t sign Feilder, I know we couldn’t afford it, but I thought I would like to see one more good bat in our lineup…but I think not trading Jones is going to pay huge dividends in the future. And there wasn’t anyone else out there that would really have had a huge impact that was within reach.

I’m really glad we are getting away from the Vlad, Lee type FA…and maybe that’s why they even got rid of Luke Scott, to give the kids a shot…

by dan o'hare on Feb 3, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

You have to wait on the pitching staff.

We have a large group of young pitchers who have shown flashes of high quality pitching in their early MLB careers. I say before you abandon ship, you have to access how they respond to the struggles they faced as rookies or sophomores trying to break into the majors in the toughest division in baseball.

if july rolls around and neither Britton, Matusz or Arrieta are showing any signs be developing into consistant quality starters, then you abandon ship. pack up guths, markakis, hardy, or anyone you can, and try to get the best prospects who are close to being MLB ready, and put them in Bowie with Machado and Schoop.

by Jokes & Burns on Feb 3, 2012 11:16 AM EST reply actions  

*assess how they respond.

i am not too sure what access a response means…

by Jokes & Burns on Feb 3, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree

I know it’s tough because of past performance, but even Tillman is only 24 years old. I feel like he’s been here and bad forever, but really, these guys need to be given a chance to come around, even if that means being worth something to us on the trade market. I think we have a ton of starters this year, and I expect at least a couple of them to really surprise with a good season…

by dan o'hare on Feb 3, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

That seems to be the Plan

But we’ve given Tillman a chance at this level, and maybe he wasn’t ready for it and needs more time to marinate. He’ll get another chance this year, but really, if we had big league solutions he probably would not have been called up yet.

by Steven_G on Feb 3, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I think we all agree

most of the young guys were rushed and they are now paying the price. Is it too late? maybe, maybe not, I don’t know.

by Philly O's on Feb 3, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's to hoping it's not too late...

Would hate to think we ruined a 24 year old (who was once considered such a big talent) already.

by dan o'hare on Feb 3, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

an optimist!

I knew there were more of us.

by Philly O's on Feb 3, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions  

It's lonely in the open thread...

I see alot of positive things in the Orioles this year. A talented if inconsistent young pitching staff that is a little more seasoned, a solid young core of maturing hitters who have all flashed brillance at some point, and a couple of studs in the farm system, I know this sounds crazy, but I really feel like this is the year we turn it around.

by dan o'hare on Feb 3, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions  

turn it around, yes

but compete for a playoff spot, no. I am thinking realistically. I respect what stats say and I have no problem with people that use them to base their argument on, but you never know what can happen any given season. Unitl I am proven wrong based on play during the season then I just like to go with the flow.

by Philly O's on Feb 3, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

June 10th last year

Was when I think I really started to believe we had something going. But then it kinda all fell apart. The pitching imploded and the hitting became very untimely.

by dan o'hare on Feb 3, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Another thing with Tillman

His fastball velocity was really down last year. He has hit mid 90s with his fastball when he was a young prospect, which made his rating so high.

Last year in his starts he was hitting 90 on occasion. His one start (i think it was against the Blue Jays?) where he pitched extremely well last year, his fastball was consistently over 90 the whole game. I don’t know if he has lost arm strength or has a different motion that has taken away some zip, but that is what concerns be about him.

by Jokes & Burns on Feb 3, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

i’m not entirely sure. but that could be part of it. his curve works off of having that mid 90s fastball so hopefully he can build up his arm strength if that was the problem.

by Jokes & Burns on Feb 3, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Velocity isn't the be all and end all of Tillman's problems.

His straight as an arrow fastball is the bigger problem. Gotta get some movement.

He praised my creativity, though he spoke sarcastically...

by PBR me ASAP! on Feb 4, 2012 8:27 AM EST up reply actions  

And command of course

If he were throwing straight and hard and hitting corners he could probably make it work, but he seems to live middle/belt.

I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8

by O'sFan21 on Feb 4, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if the Matusz and Tillman turn it around,

which I think is very possible (and I’m still a big believer in Matusz), there’s still the problem of fixing the positions players.

Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"

by birdman on Feb 3, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's my opinion.

Here are the O’s MLB rankings from last year in standard batting stats.
Runs – 14th
BA – 11th
OBP – 19th
Slug – 9th

The average of those rankings is 13.25. So they were slightly above the MLB average on offense. The problem is, with the pitching ranked 30th in ERA, Whip, QS and 29th in BAA, that doesn’t add up to an average team.

The defense also has to improve. We addressed yesterday that there is (hopefully) really no way Reynolds can repeat his horrendous season last year, and you should expect improvements from Scott to Reimold in LF.

I think with improved defense, improved OBP (which DD has addressed with his bench overhaul) and improved pitching, even to just 17th in MLB, this team could be an 80 game winner. Granted 80 games means nothing, but its a huge step for this organization considering the past 14 years.

by Jokes & Burns on Feb 3, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I think our offensive stats will improve

Beyond obp. I really think theres going to be some breakout years next year. My hope is that dd doesn’t trade away any of our position players unless theres an insanly good offer.

by dan o'hare on Feb 3, 2012 4:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

80 games isn't all that much from contention, No?

sure it’s below. 500 but how many wins is a wild card team these days? I ask cause I honestly have No clue, I stop looking at records after june. 92 wins? 12 wins isn’t alllllll that far away from 80. haha. just two prince fielders

by mdterps0325 on Feb 3, 2012 6:54 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

The Wild Card is basically second place in the AL East now.

Last year the Rays got in with 90 wins, but that was largely because of the Red Sox collapse. It normally takes more than that, I believe. The past few years the Wild Card teams usually had about 95 wins.

by ahoque24 on Feb 3, 2012 11:00 PM EST up reply actions  

not to mention

the possibility of having a second wild card next year. its an idea that i am strongly against (they would play a ONE GAME “playoff series”, but thats a whole other story) but it seems like it could be accepted as early as this year, if not, then for 2013.

that still would mean the O’s would have to come in second or third in the AL East and have a better record that the rest of the non-division winners. not likely.

by Jokes & Burns on Feb 4, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I seem to have written much the same thing as you did farther down.

It would have been easier for me to have simple said “Good points.”

So, good points.

by Bad Horse on Feb 3, 2012 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Sometimes all you can do is wait.

In my view, the lineup is solid enough to see if the pitching will come around.

The O’s have a fairly young lineup with a number of solid players. They’re returning six players who had an OPS+ of at least 109 last year. The oldest of these was JJ Hardy, at 28. This kind of offense, improved at 1B and DH, supposedly the two easiest positions to find offense, can be enough for a playoff team, if the pitching is good.

Unfortunately the pitching was absolutely dreadful last year. It wasn’t supposed to be—Matusz, Arrieta, and Tillman among others were supposed to take big steps forward, and if they had, the O’s would have been decent, or maybe even good.

Still, before breaking apart the lineup and selling off the pieces, I think it’s worth seeing if the pitching can improve. If we find out that Matusz and Tillman aren’t going to turn it around, and that Arrieta won’t return to pre-injury form, and that Britton won’t build on his rookie year, then, well, then we have to rebuild (again). But I’m willing to give it a year, to see if the cavalry figures it out, or if the new blood in Hunter, Chen, Wada, etc. can find a spark.

by Bad Horse on Feb 3, 2012 4:11 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Chen

I really like everything I’ve read about Chen. I know there is a slim picking for NBP pitchers who find MLB success. But he throws hard, has good secondary stuff, is only 26 and has shown he can throw a decent amount of innings – so pitching 30-32 games a season might not affect him as much as it does other former NBP pitchers.

by Jokes & Burns on Feb 3, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

If he gives us 25 starts

And has a sub 4.00 era, dd will have had a good offseason.

by dan o'hare on Feb 3, 2012 5:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

this.

if one player from the shit heap turns into a beneficial one, I think antonelli and Chen both could, this would be a successful offseason on that front.

by mdterps0325 on Feb 3, 2012 6:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

The thoroughbred of sin is right!

you said what I believe so much better than I could have. I’m rec’d this when I get to a cpu

by dan o'hare on Feb 3, 2012 5:03 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

To me, this is a kind of a throwaway offseason for Duquette.

Sure, he has to add some pieces and give players opportunities, but he isn’t going to make a move to will turn the O’s into a contender. The return for Jones wasn’t right, so there’s no reason to pull the trigger now.

It’s all wait-and-see this year. Which must be tough when you’re on a 3-year deal as GM.

by SeanP on Feb 3, 2012 5:55 PM EST reply actions  

I'm sorta hoping Detroit flounders early

And we suddenly have an Aj market. they need to win now to not waste money, so much so that AJ could be worth Austin Jackson( bust) , Jacob Turner, and Nick Castellanos. Rosterbation is the best.

by mdterps0325 on Feb 3, 2012 6:58 PM EST via Android app up reply actions  

Yeah, that's definitely a possible thing.

The big problem with dealing Jones during this off-season is that the O’s have to market him as this guy who, hey, could really break out and have a huge season, or could post another .320 OBP and play some suspect defense. Teams seem to value 1 year of a superstar much higher than 2 years of a solid player (as Carlos Beltran to the Giants showed last summer), so let’s wait it out and see what happens.

by SeanP on Feb 3, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions  

This core simply isn't good enough,

primarily because Markakis hit his plateau at 23 and Adam Jones’ OBP isn’t good enough. They are simply nice complementary players, not core players. It sucks to be sure. And of course if Tim Lincecum was drafted by the Orioles, he would have accumulated the same WAR as Billy Rowell.

Can’t wait for 2022!

If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever

by dfa on Feb 4, 2012 1:47 AM EST reply actions  

I thought the core wasn't good due to tachyon particles.

Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"

by birdman on Feb 4, 2012 3:52 AM EST up reply actions  

me too

Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"

by birdman on Feb 5, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

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