Tuesday Bird Droppings
by Stacey on Feb 7, 2012 8:06 AM EST
in Open Threads
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PrintHow is everyone doing the morning after the Guthrie trade? Now that I've had a day to think about it, I'm not so steamed. Actually I am steamed, but not at the trade. If that really was the best offer for Guthrie, Dan Duquette did what he could do. The real fault lies with Andy MacPhail for not trading him when he had more value. Now, none of us knows what "more value" was, but it had to be more than what came in return for Guthrie yesterday. Wasn't it MacPhail himself who said he'd rather make a move too early than wait until it's too late?
Popular veteran Guthrie recalls his five season with O's after trade - baltimoresun.com
Quotes from Guthrie that we've pretty much all heard, but a few things from the new O's, Jason Hammel and Matt Lindstrom, as well.
Jeremy Guthrie Trade Reactions - MLBTradeRumors.com
MLBTR did a nice job rounding up some reactions on yesterday's trade.
Who Are You, Dan Duquette, and What Is Your Vision For Our Orioles? | The Loss Column
Unable to make sense of Duquette's moves so far, Neal wants to know what Duquette sees in the O's future.
Orioles Card "O" the Day: Jeremy Guthrie, 2011 Topps Diamond #321
Brotz says farewell to Guts.
Jason Hammel is Jeremy Guthrie | Camden Depot
"Young, cost-controlled talent would be preferable even if that talent had a low probability of being a difference maker."
Orioles Trade Jeremy Guthrie For Hammel, Lindstrom | Camden Crazies
Daniel's take on the trade along with some analysis on Hammel.
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I just posted a Fanshot link to an official (MLB) summary of the new CBA
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
if the Orioles truly didn't receive a single offer containing a single prospect for Guthrie
that also speaks to Duquette’s mismarketing of Guthrie, because there are clearly organizations (i.e., the ones in the hunt for Roy Oswalt) that should, rationally speaking, be willing to part with a single B-level prospect in exchange for the certainty Guthrie offers.
The fact that none of them were actually willing to do so (if Duquette is to be believed) says that those organizations felt that their best options were to push the Orioles. That speaks volumes about how other teams view Duquette as a trading partner.
Now, I don’t think it’s incorrect to blame MacPhail for this fiasco; I was one of the people arguing to trade Guthrie (and everyone who isn’t nailed down) at last year’s trade deadline. I just don’t think that’s productive at this point; MacPhail’s already gone. Duquette is the guy who’s here and is now in charge of turning this team around.
Finally, as was said elsewhere (and better): if this was the best the Orioles could do, why not just hold on to Guthrie, let the baseball world know that he’s available, and trade him at any point up to and including the trade deadline once teams decide to put actual prospects on the table?
Maybe Guthrie's arbitration hearing had something to do with it?
They just decided to trade to the highest bidder and move on.
Can't imagine that was the case.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Guts needed to be traded. The fact that is that it is overdue.
Camden Crazies put it best:
This seems like not at all the type of return the Orioles should have been looking for (though that’s not the same thing as saying they didn’t get enough back).
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
No...he didn't NEED to be traded.
If he WAS to be traded, then he NEEDED to be traded for something worthwhile. Not a guy who couldn’t even crack the rotation for a team not exactly swimming in quality pitching.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 7, 2012 8:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe need was the wrong word.
The bottom line is we got something back that may or may not be more valuable. What is certain is that even if we “won” this trade, it’s not the trade that needed to be made, but a trade was the right thing to do.
Th same thing applies to AJ, JJ Hardy, bullpen JJ, and even Matt. To succeed in the long term (because there’s not going to be any short-term success), our current good players must be traded for future very good players.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
That DD thinks he got a good deal.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Where to begin?
Why take a B level prospect or two for Guthrie when he got serviceable ML parts instead, especially considering that both players have had success and some metrics have Hammel as the better pitcher? The last thing the Orioles need is more Josh Bells and Steve Johnsons.
The idea that anyone here would have the faintest idea about Duquette’s marketing of Guthrie is amusing, to be polite.
Based on his track record as his trader with the Orioles, if AM could have gotten a better deal, that deal would have been done. It was clear they had no intention of extending him this time last year. Rumors suggest they’d been looking to move him for more than a year.
Holding on to Guthrie until the trade deadline this year would have been a remarkably stupid thing to do. What team is going to put prospects worth receiving on the table for three months of a pitcher who’s going to walk, who will cost anywhere from 4 to 6 million dollars, and who won’t bring a draft choice under the new agreement—-especially if they weren’t willing to do it last year? AM got Hunter and Davis last year for Koji; we arguably did better than that for Guthrie now. And what if Guthrie continues to decline? The odds are that he will, and that Hammel just had an off year last year.
As for holding on to Guthrie for the full year, to get a draft pick, we’d have had to offer him something like 12 million, and he’d have to turn it down. Not a risk I’d want to take.
SIERA stats suggest that Hammel is the better pitcher than Guthrie. Financially, this is the better deal - we get two years of Hammel at a minimum. We also got a reasonably dependable reliever that can be under our control for three years in the bargain. So, we have a GM who is conversant with modern stats, chooses usable major league talent instead of fringe B prospects, understands how to maximize his budget, and isn’t afraid to pull the trigger. All of that’s fine with me.
When DD was the GM of Montreal, Andrew Torrez thought he walked on water. Interesting to see how things change.
Why take a B level prospect or two for Guthrie when he got serviceable ML parts instead, especially considering that both players have had success and some metrics have Hammel as the better pitcher? The last thing the Orioles need is more Josh Bells and Steve Johnsons.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Be sure
The fact of the matter is that those stats, if you choose to believe them, have Hammel as the better pitcher. The fact of the matter is that Duquette, if you choose to believe him, couldn’t get worthwhile prospects.
But I guess if you can’t argue with that, snarky cartoons are an OK response.
First, I'm not arguing that DD could've gotten prospects, because he said he couldn't
and I believe him.
As to whether Hammel or Guts is the better pitcher, I’ll leave that to more knowledgeable analysts than myself (although I think Guts is a bit better).
What I’m saying is it’s ridiculous to say that “The last thing the Orioles need is more Josh Bells and Steve Johnsons”. That’s exactly what the O’s need and far preferable to another mid-rotation starter and another middling bullpen arm. We have enough of those. What we don’t have enough of is prospect depth. Every analysis of the O’s minor league system points to that as it’s main weakness.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Hammel vs. Guthrie
We seem to all be in agreement that these two are virtually equal, and it is very tough to determine how much being in Coors Field, or being in the AL East has affected their stats over the past few years. I know you didn’t mean anything major by it, but I think we should all just say that the difference between the two is negligible. If one pitcher is at most one standard deviation better or worse than the other, and that can’t really be proven then it’s a push.
This trade was Jeremy Guthrie x1 year for Jeremy Guthrie x2 years plus a good reliever. In that sense it’s a trade that makes the team better, and if it’s truly the best we could have gotten then I’m okay with it, as much as I love Guts.
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 9:29 AM EST up reply actions
Most striking comment on the trade I've seen so far:
“Where are we going to find another pitcher to average 10 wins a year?”
From the Land of Pleasant Living...
More importantly, who does the Curse of Guthrie transfer to?
What pitcher will be “blessed” with the lowest run support in the league now?
My bet’s on Britton.
by Tezcatlipoca on Feb 7, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
He deserves it.
Flashing that potential at us. Who does he think he is?
From the Land of Pleasant Living...
The last thing the Orioles need is more Josh Bells and Steve Johnsons.
More Josh Bells and Steve Johnsons is EXACTLY what the Orioles need. The difference is we need to be acquiring tens of them, instead of just one or two so that its not catastrophic when some of them don’t develop per typical attrition rates.
Eh...they need something better than Josh Bell.
If we only have Josh Bell-like prospects to look forward to, well…you don’t have much to look forward to.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
it's hard to say if it's the O's fault he never panned out
but Josh Bell was rated as the 37th-best prospect in baseball after the O’s acquired him.
It is hard to say for sure
but with a fully stocked farm system, you can just shrug your shoulders and move on instead of always wondering why Josh Bell never panned out and becoming gun shy about making similar trades in the future
completely agree
it’s still worth evaluating the coaching, training, and conditioning staffs to figure out why so many prospects coming through the O’s system seem to miss their potential, obviously.
This is the main problem IMHO
We’ve had our fair share of top prospects during the AM era, let’s say a dozen for argument’s sake, and out of those 12 only a few have even became serviceable MLB players – AJ, Wieters, maybe you could make an argument for Britton or Arrieta. None have become All Stars/high WAR players (maybe Wieters this year but maybe not). Other organizations like everyone’s favorite comparison point, the Rays, will get multiple All Stars out of their prospects and at the very least be able to field a team of young pups that are most league average, and they can get the Wild Card like last year. Something’s seriously wrong with our development.
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
This.
A huge reason I am anti-dumping all of the good players, especially when you aren’t getting quality prospects in return. I’d feel better if we were getting some quality talent, but for the low B/high C guys, I have zero confidence the O’s will make them real baseball players. We’ve got little history of that. You’re better off sticking with the guys you’ve got if you can’t do anything better.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
When you drill for oil and only hit sewage
The answer is not to shrug your shoulders and cling desperately to the rocks you found. It is to try to figure out what you did wrong that you didn’t hit oil.
Or you can covert to solar power and....
Oh, it was an analogy.
Sorry, carry on.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
Did you ever get to Perigrine Espresso?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 7, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I did!
The one in SW near eastern market. It was a damn good cup of joe.
I liked Chinatown Coffee better, just in how they crafted it and the actual taste beans they were serving (Republic).
The barista at Peregrine was all about endlessly flirting with some woman in front of me which I felt was delaying my service. And I asked him which beans they had, and he said, “it changes every day…” but then didn’t go on to say what today was. So that was kind of a fail.
But it was a delicious 4pm pick me up, with a tasty croissant on the side. I’d definitely be a patron if I lived there.
Do you go to that one, or the one up north…?
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
The only one I knew of was in Eastern Market.
I like the restaurants there, so I’ve been a few times. I work kinda near Chinatown, so I might have to grab a coffee there before a Caps game.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 7, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
it's cramped
but they know what they’re doing, for sure.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
is get for sure never gonna amount to shit?
by mdterps0325 on Feb 7, 2012 12:09 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
fo sho
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Well, we do have something better the Bell. We have Bundy and Machado.
what we’re lacking is that full class of players right below that, and that’s your Bells and Johnsons. Out of a group out 10 of those players, maybe a one or two take a leap to A- prospects, a few more become serviceable, and the rest wash out.
Josh Bell was quite highly regarded.
It’s just that some prospects succeed, most don’t. That’s life.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
That's what always baffled me.
He struck out a ton and hardly walked. I never understood why people were surprised that he struck out a ton and hardly walked when he got to the majors.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
I agree with this.
Josh Bell could have been Josh Bell or he could have been (young) Scott Rolen. Part of the Orioles’ problem over the years is that they have such a low number of B prospects that if every one does not hit, they’re not going to get better. You need to have enough B prospects that if you get an average success rate of 25% (or whatever it is), you can still improve your roster.
answers
1) Actually, what the Orioles totally need right now is more minor-league depth (and in particular, more Josh Bells; Steve Johnson was never a B-prospect). Prospects don’t always pan out. That doesn’t mean you give up on prospects; it means you acquire more of them, particularly on a team that’s perpetually losing between 95 and 100 games.
2) I think it’s kind of amusing that in paragraph 2 you can breezily assert that none of us “have the faintest idea about Duquette’s marketing of Guthrie,” and then in paragraph 3, assert confidently that if MacPhail could have gotten a better deal “that deal would have been done.” Either we can make informed speculation about the front office, or we can’t. Pick one. (Incidentally, I think most people here would disagree at your assessment of MacPhail’s track record; like I said above, I’m not really interested in evaluating MacPhail now that he’s no longer in charge.)
3) Contending teams are always looking to acquire starting pitching at the trade deadline. You’re correct that the new CBA probably changes the leverage at the margins by restricting Type A free agency, but it doesn’t change the fundamental motivation of win-now teams looking to make the playoffs.
4) The only way the O’s are taking the risk of offering Guthrie arbitration is if he has another Guthrie-like year; if he does, he’s clearly in line for a multi-year contract offer in free agency, so that’s not really a risk.
5) It’s not really multiple years of control for either Hammel or Lindstrom in that both are essentially non-tender candidates. Put another way: if Matt Lindstrom were a free agent right now, do you honestly think a team is going to pay him more than $3.8MM?
6) Not sure we have the evidence that Duquette is ‘conversant with modern stats’ or ‘maximize his budget.’ On the other hand, the fact that he chooses ‘usable major-league talent over B prospects’ is pretty clearly a distinct negative on a team that’s losing 95-100 games per season, particularly in light of your own argument that major-league talent is now worth less to a rebuilding team given the new CBA compensation rules.
7) Dude, that was a decade ago, and it’s sort of my point. The things that Duquette did that were seemingly cutting-edge back in 2001 doesn’t even rise to the level of conventional wisdom today.
by AndrewTorrez on Feb 7, 2012 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
that also speaks to Duquette’s mismarketing of Guthrie, because there are clearly organizations (i.e., the ones in the hunt for Roy Oswalt) that should, rationally speaking, be willing to part with a single B-level prospect in exchange for the certainty Guthrie offers.
According to Rany, teams are no longer rational in valuing their prospects.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
Now that I have had a day to rest on it, I feel we got an ok return but it sucks to lose guthrie
Wondering though,
I saw mention in the chat yesterday about targeting Eric Young. Reading the MLBtrade rumors article this morning I saw that Young was actually on the table but rejected due to being out of options. What are your thoughts? Would you rather have a potential guthrie replacement and a solid back of rotation guy, or Eric young?
Also, Gut’s comment that Nick Swisher’s batting average is the big loser in the trade made me laugh / cry.
The part that cracked me up was when he said the biggest winner was the Yankee training staff.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
He and Luke were my favorite Orioles.
Fuck
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 8:53 AM EST up reply actions
That last comment alone is why Jason Hammel is not Jeremy Guthrie.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Young?
You mean the Eric Young with a career OPS of .619 in 479 ML ABs?
That Eric Young?
Yes, that Eric Young.
The Eric young with 49 stolen bases in 158 career MLB games.
The Eric Young with a walk rate that was 11.4% in 2011… a better rate than Adam Jones (4.7%), JJ Hardy (5.5%), Nick Markakis (8.7%), and just behind reigning Oriole walk king Mark Reynolds (12.1%).
That Eric Young.
I'm skeptical of his BB% last year since his swing data doesn't support that improvement
continuing. He’s not a good player and I doubt he ever will be.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
In three straight years, his plate appearances have increased.
In three straight years, his walk rate has increased.
He’s still just 26 (turning 27 in May) and hasn’t been given even half a season, much less a full season. I’m not saying he’s guaranteed to be the next… er… Eric Young. However, it’s not impossible. I think Young is a lot like Nolan Reimold. He deserves a chance to play every day for a bit and see if he can make a career out of his skills.
It’d be a better gamble for the O’s to take than Matt Lindstrom. What does Matt Lindstrom do for us?
Relief for when JJ's arm blows out? haha.
What does Matt Lindstrom do for us?
If he gets used last year like he did this year i think he’ll miss a significant amount of time.
Nothing. But he's better than Young.
Young does two things: walk a fair amount (may or may not be sustainable) and steal bases at a great rate. He can’t field, can’t hit for power or average. He doesn’t have a good enough bat to be a regular.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Young's fielding stats all peg him as average at LF, CF, RF, and 2B.
And you are correct, he has no power.
Neither did Willy Mays Hayes, but look at the career he had!
What stats?
I don’t look much at advanced fielding stats, certainly not with a sample size this small.
I’m repeating what I’ve read and that is that he’s a below-average fielder. Since I know it’s coming, I’m looking for a source.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Fielding stats...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/younger03-field.shtml
He’s pretty consistently around -2 Rtot. That’s statistically insignificant from average. He’s also slightly better at 2B than in the OF, but hasn’t really been settled into a position by the Rockies and will get even less 2B time with Scutaro on the roster.
His sample size at any position is also statistically insignificant.
In this case (and others) I’d rather go by scouts’ opinions.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
This is what the Rockies SBN blog Purple Row had to say about him
Grade: C. As mentioned above, Eric Young Jr. is a no-bat, no-glove guy who has made his way back to the big leagues solely because of his speed and seemingly above-average judgment of the strike zone.
It’s clear that he has made some improvements at the plate – albeit slight ones – but still has A LOT of work to do in the field. Young’s advanced fielding metrics continued the pattern from previous seasons, showing him as below average everywhere on the diamond.
Again, I don’t agree with their use of advanced fielding stats, but there is their opinion.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
He provides at least some extra value.
Also “slightly more than zero” is still essentially zero.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
does suck to lose Guthrie
right now I’m really really really rooting for Guts to have a killer year to prove all the haters wrong. Pretty irrational especially considering I’m an O’s fan, but this just feels different. right now I’d be totally fine with Hammel and Lindstrom being a bust while Guts tears it up in the NL West.
Hopefully those feeling will wear off by Opening Day.
Me too.
Huge Guthrie fan….he actually became my favorite Oriole this season…topping, you know, Markakis, you know.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Well, now that that's over we can get back to worrying about the Manny rumors that just won't die
by perpetualstudent on Feb 7, 2012 8:47 AM EST reply actions
OT: Question for teachers
We are about to have a baby and my wife is taking off for the rest of the school year. Since that is more than the six weeks (and that’s all the sick time she has anyways) there will be a period of leave without pay. Per the Family Medical Leave Act, she is entitled to benefits for 12 weeks during her LWOP period.
Since her contract is spread throughout the year – her school will be giving us a lump sum check for the remainder of her contract (essentially prorated vacation time – spring break, summer, etc.).
My question is: for the prorated vacation time that she is entitled to, should that count towards the 12 weeks of FMLA benefits. In other words – Spring break falls on the first week AFTER her 6 weeks is up and is technically vacation time she has earned. Would she have to use a portion of the 12 weeks during that time? Same goes with the remaining time over the summer. I don’t think it should since it is time she has earned during her contract and you get benefits during your vacation time regardless.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
If she's a NEA member
that’s a great question for your local NEA UniServe rep.
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
We're gonna win, you know. Stats lie.
ok
she is going to ask her school but i just wanted to be prepared for what they might say. It seems that the school tells the teachers something different every time.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
That's why you ask the association rep
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
We're gonna win, you know. Stats lie.
ugh
the rep is my wifes FCS co-worker and she knows as much as I do.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
That's not good
There should be a person (a UniServe rep) assigned to that local association to do nothing but answer questions and offer assistance, intervene with the central office & principals, etc. Is she in MD or PA?
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
PA
I could be wrong but it seems like my wife never really cares and just assumes what the school says is right. I get frustrated becuse I know its not and she just usually accepts it becuse she doesn’t feel like fighting it.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
NEVER assume what the school says is right. EVER.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
It shouldn't
It doesn’t where I work, but they give 3 months maternity here, plus you can use all your vacation. after that people are entitled to 12 weeks of benefits. But they don’t get paid in a lump sum check. they are just paid normally (until the 12 extra weeks when they are not paid at all.)
yeah
our first kid was born in May so LWOP wasn’t an issue and since she started the begining of the follwoing school year on LWOP the 12 weeks began then. So the whole summer vaca was contracted time with full benefits.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
Not a teacher
but according to this website, she may have to….
Employees may choose to use, or employers may require the employee to use, accrued paid leave to cover some or all of the FMLA leave taken. Employees may choose, or employers may require, the substitution of accrued paid vacation or personal leave for any of the situations covered by FMLA. The substitution of accrued sick or family leave is limited by the employer’s policies governing the use of such leave.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
Yeah i saw that
I didn’t know how it worked with teachers since, you know, they are lazy during the summer.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
Can I say that mine is temporarily Kevin Gregg?
Just until they trade him? Please?
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
I've finally acquired his taste in pitching.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
I have a feeling he is going to throw the ball over the plate this year.
Hard to believe he walks guys at 6BB/9.
...and keeps his job.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
The problem is that if he were to do that
he’d still suck, he’d just be giving up hits rather than walks.
Tommy hunter still sucks!
Mark Reynolds!
Hopefully he destroys the beginning of the season and doesn’t slump the first part of the year.
I bet we could get some nice prospects for him (if said destroying occurs).
still need to sign a Manny and trade Jim Johnson for Koji
Your cannonball trajectory, it always gave me hope
Pretty sure they're going to sign Damon to "platoon" with Reimold in LF, too.
At this point, I wouldn’t rule out the O’s trading JJ Hardy to acquire Joakim Soria or Matt Capps to get a “proven closer”.
Bahahahhaa....
I love Wall looking at him like…. WTF dude?
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
He's pointing like "get the fuck back in position!"
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
You know though
I’d rather see a guy hustling back on defense not having realized they got the offensive rebound than a guy not hustling back on defense at all
For sure, Javale is just always high unintentional comedy. He's so goofy.
I’ve actually become casual friends with his moms from talking to her at a bunch of games. She’s a monster. I’m a big guy and she makes me feel small.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
Don't jump to conclusions just because she is an ex-WNBA player.
I kid.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
I just can't get past this
I spent all weekend working on a crazy ass fan post. You know how hard it is to do weighted averages after half a bottle of jameson? And now, not only would the already optimistic projections be off, but I’m not even sure I still believe in my thesis.
by dan o'hare on Feb 7, 2012 10:10 AM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
...science!
Your cannonball trajectory, it always gave me hope
by Andrew_G on Feb 7, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought it would be faster to do it by hand...
it wasn’t untill I had the starting rotation posting a 2.41 ERA that I realized my math may have been wrong…
It's always faster to do it by hand
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I didn't say I was drunk
I just said I drank half a bottle of jameson…
by dan o'hare on Feb 7, 2012 12:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 5 recs
It's a fine line
between inspired and drunk. Both make math hard.
by dan o'hare on Feb 7, 2012 12:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
XKCD, of course, has covered this already
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Feb 7, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
I think that depends on your definition of crazy
I think if I posted it most people would think I was crazy for both writing and posting it. I think the post was crazy because it began to take on a life of its own…and then it lied to me when guts was traded.
by dan o'hare on Feb 7, 2012 12:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So I mentioned the Guts trade to my wife
I said the Orioles traded away their best pitcher. She immediately quips back, they had a best pitcher?
Yes, but can she explain the infield fly rule? Or a balk?
by Tezcatlipoca on Feb 7, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
She probably can.
It’s never come up. It’s interesting to take her to Orioles games, one time she thought little leaguers had better fundamentals than the Orioles did defensively.
wow.
Everybody’s a critic, I guess.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 7, 2012 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
Or they really are that bad.
Of course, she’s an Indians fan, and they were likely playing the Indians, so there’s that.
She's from Ohio
So it’s okay. She’s also a life long fan and is constantly reminding me of how bad they used to be.
This why I married a blank slate.
I got to make her an Orioles and Broncos fan.
She even watches Maryland basketball with me now.
by Tezcatlipoca on Feb 7, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
O's and Saints fan for me
She liked the Yanks when we started dating, but I made sure to take care of that real quick.
Misery loves company, of course.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Doesn't this present a dilemma in that some people (I'm not going to name names) are simply incapable of actually "telling someone"?
I fear we may end up in an inescapable loop.
by Tezcatlipoca on Feb 7, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
BURN
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
As a note she does know both rules
For some reason she got upset when I asked about the infield fly rule… Thought it was a jan against the Indians.
by Steven_G on Feb 7, 2012 5:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
people who know things,
How do I post a picture from my iPhone on here?
by camdenchad on Feb 7, 2012 10:35 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions
I hear Edwin Jackson signed with the Nationals.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 7, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
So I've heard anyways.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 7, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Post it to a photo sharing site first
Then grab the link from there
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
We're gonna win, you know. Stats lie.
In the interest of an actual reply...
I don’t know things, but I don’t think you can post directly. I think you need to upload it to a photo site first, then post the link.
"Work fast. Throw strikes. Change speeds." Ray Miller
Doesn't the iPhone have some sort of cloud sharing now?
on my windows phone, every photo I take is automatically uploaded to my SkyDrive (think Dropbox) and then I can just log in and share it/save it/etc.
ZK will probably know how to do the same thing with an iPhone.
Incidentally
Dropbox also has an app for iOS that you can use to upload photos easily from the iPhone, then grab the “public link” and use that to post here.
iCloud doesn't have a public sharing option...
….like the Gallery that we had in MobileMe. You’d have to use Dropbox, Flicker, Photobucket, etc., or your own personal server.
The Dropbox app zsiv mentions sounds perfect. Gotta go get that!
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
You didn't have that already?
Wow, zk, I’m disappointed!
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Facebook is a really easy middle man to get it done.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
only if you have your facebook settings on "public"
in which case, the whole world is up in your bid-ness.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
I don't think so.
I’ve linked Facebook pictures here and I have my stuff on lockdown.
by Tezcatlipoca on Feb 7, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
doesn't that seem incongruous?
if your settings are on “private”, but the whole world can see your pictures?
Facebook is not really private! I AM SHOCKED, SHOCKED!
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
I think
in chrome you can right-click on any image, select “Open image in new tab,” and just the image will open in a new tab. Then you can share that link and give it to anyone, and they will be able to view it without normally having access to it or even without being logged in to facebook. Example: here’s a pic from when I went to Victory Brewing Company a few weeks ago. That’s Hop Wallop from the beer engine.
victory
i live 5 mins from there. next time you go, get a silverback. 1/2 storm king – 1/2 Golden Monkey. gets ya tipsy.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
see also
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
not a fan of wheat beers
or Belgians in general. However, Dark Devil sounds awesome and I’ll try it next time I visit. All in all I was really impressed. I had never had a beer from a beer engine before (ie from the cask) and was frankly amazed at how different it tasted compared to the same beer on tap.
Same here.
I rarely drink Belgians or wheats/wits
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 7, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
I made a belgian triple
It was from extract but I steeped a roasted grain to give it some depth and to kill off some off the intense maltiness. I really liked how it turned out.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
what is the strong aftertaste that I taste when I drink a wheat beer?
I can’t explain it, but the aftertaste of most belgians and most wheat beers is really what turns me off. I really dislike it.
The taste in wheat beers is likely esters from the yeast.
Were the flavors sorta banana-like and/or clove-y?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
they're always the same
and it’s definitely a banana taste, now that I think of it. But it’s such a strong taste… it’s more than a taste, even. It’s very pungent to me. Yuck.
Yep...that's the yeast strain.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
you brew right?
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
cool
im working on a mash tun and going all grain. pretty excited.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
I've done all grain, but don't have the capacity for it right now.
Just been doing partial mashes lately.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
yeah, it's the yeast
i have been hesitant on making a belg IPA just for that reason.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
What do you brew mostly?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
IPAs mostly
but just transfered an APA to the secondary and should be able to keg in a week or so. a guy i work with gave me a regulator for my beer fridge if I ever wanted to make a lager, but didn’t try yet.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
I'm in the market for a fridge that'll fit my fermenters.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
oh yeah
If there is cask at a bar – i get it.
I really don’t like golden monkey straight up, but it goes well with the storm king and combination kinda mellows each other out.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
I figured you would only be able to post direct links to FB pictures in they were your own photos.
Testing the hypothesis, here is one of my FB photos:
ok, so,
this is disturbing
I’m obviously going to have to delete my “compromising pictures of myself” album since anyone can share it with anyone.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
or maybe don't be friends with people who will post compromising photos of you all over the internet
but, yeah, this is kind of unsettling a bit. Although, in theory, even if you couldn’t do this, what is to stop someone from just taking screen grabs of said photos if they are so intent on defaming your good character across the interwebs?
testing same hypothesis, here's one of my friend's photos
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
by the way,
that’s a frozen canal in Amsterdam. My buddy described it on his FB feed today as “a giant skating rink”. Must be pretty spectacular..
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
Have you seen the Ars Technica report on deleted photos?
They’re still finding images on the facebook servers that were initially deleted 3 years ago
http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2012/02/nearly-3-years-later-deleted-facebook-photos-are-still-online.ars
Case in point...
I don’t even know how to reply correctly.
by Tezcatlipoca on Feb 7, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
And here I was about to tease you for it.
but you are right, I don’t need facts, I have opinions, and if I’ve learned anything from politics the past 20 years is that we need no facts in our opinions.
Stacey stole a little bit of my thunder
but I too wrote about Guthrie and the failure to capitalize at the right time:
http://www.camdenchat.com/2012/2/7/2781261/orioles-trades-guthrie-scott-koji-jones
Your cannonball trajectory, it always gave me hope
I understand there is a lot of emotion flowing...
I don’t think I could have remained as calm as that reporter.
and luck
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
blah
give me some BG3
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
maybe
oops
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
Nah, because the Redskins are signing Eli's brother to a 7 year deal and slapping the franchise tag on him.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Cooper?
seems about right for the skins.
I only rec daveh873. Not because he is the best poster on SB Nation, but because the NY Football Giants are the best football team in the nation.
by Philly O's on Feb 7, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd hate to be Cooper Manning more than anyone in the world.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 12:27 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I'd hate being part of a family with tens of millions of dollars
I’d much rather sell whiteys with Bubbles.
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
You're greeeeeeeen
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
No he isn't
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
I green'd him.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 7, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Wouldn't be the first time it happened to the Colts
Of course, if it says anything about the QB he’ll be, some team is gonna get a SB MVP out of it.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
T or Dundee?
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
by daveh873 on Feb 7, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rex or United?
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Game Over!
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
See what you started.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
so i don't know if this was discussed yesterday or not
but does the trade make Britton the de facto Opening Day starter?
clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose...
Tommy Hunter is general consensus from yesterday.
even the MLB network and Mid Atlantic Sports report people when with him.
Hunter is easily the last guy I want to see be the opening day starter
I would take any of the other pitchers on the staff as opening day starter. Even Matusz, even if he gives up 10 runs every inning in Spring Training.
Why is there so much hate for Hunter around here?
He’s admitted that he didn’t pitch well at the end of last year. But if he can be anything close to the pitcher he was in 2010, he’d be a solid #4/5. He’s only 25 and won’t be a free agent until 2016. We should be giving him a chance (but of course I don’t want to see him as our opening day starter).
by j o incandenza on Feb 7, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
the most common answer?
because he sucks.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
Let's compare his career stats to Guthrie
K/9: 5.52, 4.99
B/9: 2.68, 2.25
FIP: 4.68, 4.74
ERA: 4.19, 4.50
(Hunter on right.)
He doesn’t look worse enough to qualify as “sucking”, statistically speaking. But yes, he sucked in 2011 (and was injured), and his ceiling is that of a 4/5.
by j o incandenza on Feb 7, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
I like him
I think he’ll be a solid addition to the team and I think he and Chris Davis will help us this year. I just don’t think he’ll be our ace.
You think we'll have an actual "ace" pitcher?
Somebody will be 1st on the depth chart for sure, but I don’t think it’s going to be fair to call them an ace.
oh god no
no I do not. Someone could develop into one, Britton, Arrieta, Matusz, even Tillman…they are all still really young, but I don’t see it happening. I don’t think Tommy Hunter will develop into one, but I do think he will be a good #4 stater for us, and could become an innings eater…
ZiPS has him at 86 ERA+ for 2012
That’s pretty much what I expect out of him as well. He’s a good fifth starter/long reliever. Nothing more. He’s a good guy to have around before he gets expensive. Without looking at the numbers closely, I would say he’s a tick below Arrieta, but a tick above 3E1N.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
god damn you, billy butler.
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Feb 7, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Because he sucks.
Also, we’re a team full of #5 starters. We talk a bunch about this guy and that guy being solid 5th starters, but nobody on this team is currently capable of being a front-end starter.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
I agree
but it’s interesting to see how Hunter gets all of the hate instead of 3E1N or Arrieta who are also cromulent back rotation guys.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
I knew I could count a response.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
That's generally what happens when you ask a question.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
I didn't ask a question
I made an observation. And plenty of questions and observations get no response (not that I’m complaining)!
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
Eh...I'm not the biggest fan of either Bergy or Arrieta.
But we didn’t trade for those guys. I feel like we waste our best trade assets.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
think we could have gotten much more for Koji?
I like him, but he’s an older reliever, and we got two young players at positions that we don’t have much strength in. One of them could develp into an asset, or dare I say, both of them could…
Koji was not going to develp into more of an asset, I think the timing of the trade was right, and I don’t know how much more we could have gotten for him…
meaning that this topic has been beaten to death.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
cause nothing ever gets discussed over and over and over again around here
clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose...
lol
I said I’m new here right? Sorry I missed those days…
In sum,
Personally, I think MacPhail did pretty well on the trade for the reasons that you mentioned. And I love Koji. But there are a lot of people who are disappointed that prospects were obtained. I don’t think prospects were available (except maybe a 26 year old reliever), but others disagree.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
I think we could have gotten better guys than Hunter and Davis
Neither of them seemed to me at the time like more than filler. I don’t think Koji could have returned a haul, but I think he was worth at least one B prospect or so.
This.
Why trade for two filler guys when you could get 1 prospect? Quantity doesn’t necessarily yield anything.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
I agree with this to an extent
but we do have to put a product on the field as well. And while I want prospects i dont want just one highly boring prospect for a guy like guts. This gives us several more years of similar level play and potential trades.
that's what he has now.
He has upside though. I don’t think he’ll realize it. I’ve said this before, but Law projected him to be a back end guy and that’s what he’s been. And it’s interesting to note that Hunter is actually younger than Arrieta so I suppose if you believe that Arrieta has upside, you might believe Hunter has upside as well.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
I think they both have upside
Lots of guys with big arms take a while to figure things out.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I think he's got upside.
I just don’t think he’s ever going to find it. I also think he sucks….still.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Chen
nobody on this team is currently capable of being a front-end starter.
Not saying he’s gonna light the world on fire, but he’s certainly “capable” of being better than a #5. Even if that’s just because we have no idea what we are gonna get out of him. But if I had to take a shot in the dark at who our best pitcher is going to be this year, I’m going with him.
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
me too
i think B-Mat is going to gome back fierce.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
I fully expect to never get a useful inning from him again
This is the Orioles, after all.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
My favorite Orioles...
are always the ones we have no idea what we are gonna get out of.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
If Tommy Hunter is the OD starter
Pickles is gonna make a whole lotta $$$ off me pre-game.
Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
He praised my creativity, though he spoke sarcastically...
Just bet against the O's
you’ll make that money right back
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
You what was discussed yesterday? Playing risk.
And that never happened. Let’s play some Risk.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 7, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
i was recovering from my birthday weekend bender, so i wasn't aware Risk was discussed
but i am down to play, it’s been a while
clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose...
i could use a distraction...
risk sounds perfect.
"I don't have an on-deck circle for ideas. It's just 'Batter up!!' Even though they're bad" - Mike Birbiglia
by Parkinglotninja on Feb 7, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
What's yo email?
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 7, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
If GC is still ready to play, I am all for this.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 7, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
aight...I'll get a game up.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 7, 2012 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
Waiting for PLN's email.
Haven’t heard from him since that comment.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
sorry guys.
i had a client at my desk. did i miss the game?
"I don't have an on-deck circle for ideas. It's just 'Batter up!!' Even though they're bad" - Mike Birbiglia
by Parkinglotninja on Feb 7, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
no...we're waiting on you to start.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
my email
redocumented @ gee mail.com
"I don't have an on-deck circle for ideas. It's just 'Batter up!!' Even though they're bad" - Mike Birbiglia
by Parkinglotninja on Feb 7, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
gracias.
Game will be up in a minute.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
It was discussed... somewhere
There’s like 5 front page’s from yesterday.
Looks like I missed a troll trollin’ all over the place last night too. OsFan followed him around from thread to thread beating in his little troll face with a stick.
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Like Wack-a-mole
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Shit, I missed the more obvious Whack-a-Troll
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Missed opportunity.
Would have gotten you recs too.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
by twistedlogic on Feb 7, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
Fuck, I just left em on the table and everything...
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
There are
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Eat a whole bag of dicks
/prior rapport
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
Only an organic bag of dicks
Non-organic dicks are bad for the environment.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
my GOD that was funny
Louis CK rulzzzzzzz
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
Loss Column article.
That skepticism I was talking about in regards to Duquette? It’s back.
What this comes down to is something I think I’m always looking for in the things I want to support and/or be a part of: vision.
MIL Brewers. That’s his vision! Now he needs to a good vision to execute that vision.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
man, my story about The Bullpen: Baltimore couldn't even last a week without needing to be updated
thanks a lot Duquette, ya dick
clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose...
if Troy Patton pitches in a game but nobody is there to see it
does that mean he exists?
clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose...
Troy Patton - PTBNN
Player To Be Named Never.
When the fuck did we get ice cream???
by NSOsFan on Feb 7, 2012 1:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fantasy Baseball Big Board!
I’ve gotta make decisions on who to keep for the first time. For all of you keeper veterans out there, should I just go ahead and keep everyone from my team who I can keep for under ADP/ADV?
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 1:21 PM EST reply actions
Wait on it until the last minute. There's no reason to rush.
Also, ADP data is inaccurate right now since there have been so few mocks so far. Also, what are the keeper rules?
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Yeah I'm definitely waiting.
We’ve got unlimited keepers. Auction league, $260 starting budget, but $243 for me – traded some cash for players to make my (cough) championship (cough) run last year. My no brainers are Verlander for $32, Napoli for $14, Jennings for $15.
That already puts me at $182 to start the auction. I could also keep Pedroia for $43 which will probably be just about his ADV. Other interesting options are Romero for $12, Konerko for $22, and Big Papi for $9.
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Standard 5x5?
If so Romero and Ortiz should be kept but I’d drop Konerko.
Where do you play? I’m still trying to find a venue for the CC league (although I’ve started setting up for spreadsheet league).
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Yeah, Yahoo
And that’s what I was thinking too
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
The question is how deep is the MiL universe?
Because IIRC they only have the players on the 25 man roster. Or maybe the 40.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Is Konerko your main 1B?
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Yeah but I think I'm gonna let him go back into the pool
I’m not in a position this year to overpay for 1B. I just gotta hope I can grab this year’s Michael Morse that can give me a solid 30 homers.
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
what about espn?
I have never done an ESPN league, so I dunno, but if they have a deeper minor league then I’d say we do it there.
Boo.
We did ESPN last year. Didn’t much care for that.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
What was wrong with it?
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Dunno...just thought the whole thing was sorta funky.
The Yahoo draft page was far cleaner.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
Yeah ESPN is inferior to Yahoo in my opinion
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I have a $260 salary cap, too...
… and I’ve got Jennings under contract for $6 in 2012, $9 in 2013, and $10 in 2014. I also have those same contract values for Eric Hosmer, Jason Kipnis, Brett Lawrie, Julio Teheran, and Jacob Turner.
Very nice.
You have what might be the 2013 AL All-Star infield there, sans SS.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Yeah, my current SS is Jed Lowrie.
I haven’t decided on a few keepers yet. Lowrie would cost me $7. Moustakas would cost me $6. Mesoraco I think I can keep as a rookie for $1. Domonic Brown would cost me $6. Jemile Weeks would cost me $6. Will Myers and Jonathan Singleton I could keep for $1.
Lawrie and Hosmer have already hit the majors and are there to stay.
Kipnis should start the season in Cleveland.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Lawrie's ranked in the top 50
Shocker, but after I thought about it, it made sense. 3B is wizzeak this year
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
You never answered my question before.
What fantasy site has a better player universe.
Cause if we want to have a comprehensive draft, we might have to do offline.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
I don't know.
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
dont play fantasy baseball...
but not surprising that Adam Jones and Wieters are the only players to even make the “bubble”
Just a coincidence...
This was the wait number they gave me at Bagby Pizza yesterday…
by camdenchad on Feb 7, 2012 1:22 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Not showing. Sorry man.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Really? Showed for me. Just big
by camdenchad on Feb 7, 2012 1:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
No idea what the eff I'm doing. Can someone help please?
by camdenchad on Feb 7, 2012 1:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
for example
they need to be in your Public folder, and then you have to “Create a public link” in order to share it with others. Here’s one from me, following the above instructions:
I don't get it
but there’s an XKCD for it apparently
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Success!
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
now, add "width=300" in between "img" and "src" at the beginning of the embed code
and use the image rotation feature on your iphone
noted
thanks everyone for the help
by camdenchad on Feb 7, 2012 2:11 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
ah screw it
Supposed to be a 46
by camdenchad on Feb 7, 2012 1:26 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Okay...the risk game is finally up.
Not like we were waiting on PLN or anything……. :-)
GC is up first.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
En banc hearing first
this was only a 3 judge panel, they can first appeal to have the case heard by the entire circuit (though the 9th is so big, this actually just means 11 of the 29 judges)
They could also attempt an amendment to the US Constitution
Which would be tough, but depending on the make-up of Congress next year, who knows.
Thats a long way off
and it would depend on how the Supreme Court rules. I’m actually reading commentary that says the Supreme Court might not actually touch this, since the opinion is written fairly narrowly to only apply to California. They may wait for an opinion that says gay marriage is or isn’t a federal right.
I was just trying to determine which of the two he specifically meant.
I don’t think a constitutional amendment on the matter would be ratified by enough states to pass one way or the other.
I'm going to be exceedingly pissed if the Supreme Court passes the buck on this.
This topic is going to continue to needlessly torment families and see millions wasted until the Supreme Court rules.
Just get it over with already (and rule the right way, too, while you’re at it).
Well they need the right ruling to affirm or overrule
It sounds like this opinion just makes the right to same sex marriages irrevocable once granted, it never actually says its a federal right everywhere.
Actually, I think it does... or at a minimum provides precedent for the interpretation that marriage is a right subject to equal protection.
In its ruling, the majority says that “Proposition 8 serves no purpose, and has no effect, other than to lessen the status and human dignity of gays and lesbians in California, and to officially reclassify their relationships and families as inferior to those of opposite-sex couples. The Constitution simply does not allow for laws of this sort.”
The Ninth Circuit ruling comes 18 months after federal judge Vaughn Walker struck down the ban. Walker found Prop 8 violated constitutional rights under two provisions: the equal protection clause and the due process clause of the constitution to marry.
“One … which says you can’t discriminate against one class of citizens over another unless you have a good reason for it,” she said. “The other is that … that marriage is itself a fundamental right that is protected and you can’t take it away.”
http://www.scpr.org/news/2012/02/07/31158/prop-8-ruling-unconstitutional/
I need to read the whole opinion
but there is some language in there that seems to point to a focus on revoking rights already granted, specifically “reclassifying” and “take it away.” That says to me that don’t necessarily consider it unconstitutional to never classify them as married or allow them to marry in the first place.
It is a bit wishy-washy. Not as clear as Loving v. Virginia.
On the other hand, it’s a circuit court. The Supreme Court needs to be the one to rule, unambiguously, once and for all.
And they will, eventually
but this opinion may be narrowly enough drawn that they leave California alone and wait for a circuit to say same-sex marriage is a federal right. full stop.
Just so long as corporations are allowed to do it too
supreme court should be good.
I think the point will be
You cannot take a right away from a minority group if the right was already provided for by law. So it will only matter to CA. Still, good news today…
It will also apply to any future efforts in 9th circuit states to repeal same sex marriage laws
but its an interesting approach. In a way they punted by not writing an opinion that wouldn’t push the Supreme Court to decide the issue. On the other hand, they likely ensured the right for California and will avoid future interference.
When they start passing Constitutional amendments that embrace the darkness of exclusion...
… instead of the light of inclusion – be it an English Only amendment, a Heterosexual Marriage Only amendment, or whatever other discriminatory topic they’ve found to beat on – I’ll find the nearest country that will have me and renounce my citizenship.
I'm not worried one will actually pass
unless there is a signifigant change in the makeup of Congress. But I can see elements within the gov’t trying regardless, if just to make a point.
Congress isn't the issue, you could get an amendment through the right congress
Ratification by the states is the really hard part.
Partially correct
They can originate in Congress but require a 2/3 majority to be then sent to the states for ratification, which requires 38 states to ratify to be in the Constitution. I suppose if you found the right 38 states at the right time (and heck Prop 8 originated in California, generally considered to be one of the more liberal states in the union). I think it’s more likely that some.
Right now, there’s no way it could get the votes in Congress to pass, and it’s lkely been proposed and never got out of Committee.
And here's a link
This has already been propsed multiple times:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Marriage_Amendment
The way you put it earlier, I thought you were implying that you thought
that Congress could enact amendments by themselves. It seems we’re on the same page.
solution:
get government out of the marriage business
by PhilR8 on Feb 7, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Funny this got ruled today
as I just bought my “straight guy for gay marriage” shirt a few hours ago.
Baseball nerd
Isn't it amazing the amount of time, money, and effort we spend on worrying about who is marrying who?
I mean, fuck homelessness, unemployment, national debt, healthcare… we need to worry about (and vote based on) if it should be legal for 2 mutually consenting adults who are already banging each other and spending their lives together to have a piece of paper that says they are together.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
yep
let conservative folks go to a conservative church that only marries a man to a woman, and let progressive folks go to a progressive church that marries anyone. And let non-religious folks get some sort of union, and all three groups will have the same piece of paper in the end: a contract that the government would naturally enforce. Call it whatever you want.
Or have them be entirely seperate
You get you’re non-legally binding (but God-binding, i suppose) marriage certificate from a church, and then you go to a courthouse to get your domestic partnership papers. Let the two processes never overlap.
that's pretty much what I meant
the non-religious folks would bypass the church part, but in the end they’d all be a domestic partnership with some also going through the church.
I have a lot of gay friends
that just want to get married and have that experience. These conservative holly rollys in Maryland that are blocking that are complete hypocrites. They cry about Obama is taking away freedom but they are taking away freedom of many citizens. Isn’t that hypocrisy at its fullest?
Baseball nerd
well
the issue with Maryland is that there are plenty of black Evangelical Obama supporters who also oppose gay marriage. Or, at least, that’s a perception I’ve heard repeated. I guess I shouldn’t repeat without a disclaimer that I haven’t done much investigation into the truth of it.
No you're right
I believe one in the city and maybe I think PG county were against it. However, I believe they said that they may flip sides.
Baseball nerd
You are totally and completely correct
Even the Dems from the Shore won’t vote for it, and that includes our lone African-American delegate.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
by duck on Feb 7, 2012 5:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I wrote a pretty long article last year about being embarrassed that Maryland failed to recognize same-sex marriages.
I simply cannot understand how a group that suffered the most horrendous discrimination now seeks to enact any kind of discrimination against others. I know even suggesting that gets a lot of people riled up and I am not suggesting that denial of marriage equality is in any way equal to slavery or Jim Crow.
However, I do know that within my parents’ lifetime, my marriage would have been illegal in the majority of the United States. That people still want to prevent consenting adults from entering into a legally recognized marriage is beyond me.
the issue has always been
that these things are an abomination in the eyes of the Lord, right? Is that fair to say? That’s really why “marriage” – a term that conservatives always say has historically and biblically referred to a man and a woman – needs to leave the purview of the government and go back to the church.
Well, I've never been overly moved by an argument that relies on tradition for the sake of tradition...
… or on religion as a basis for American laws.
by Tezcatlipoca on Feb 7, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This
to me it’s the same as basing laws on Huckleberry Finn.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
by O'sFan21 on Feb 7, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
shellfish is abomination
sorry crabcake fans.
hahaa Jim Gaffigan
who the heck would know what a water chestnut is without bacon?
It all has to do with religion
which in my opinion creates homophobia. This country is now more religion based then race based. Look how riled up conservatives got over the Obama as a Muslim rumor. Nothing against Christians but they are just followers of interpretation of a book.
Baseball nerd
And I think this has gone far enough
I knew what i was starting by even posting the news, but once we go past the legal argument and get into an indictment of religion I think we need a new topic.
Where else was this going to end up?
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
I was personally hoping for World Peace
or possibly the World Series
Your cannonball trajectory, it always gave me hope
Speaking of world peace
It caught me pretty off-guard randomly appearing at the end of the half-time show.
it changed my mind on the subject for sure
I am now totally pro-World Peace. Thanks, Madonna, for informing me about this important issue!
Your cannonball trajectory, it always gave me hope
I am sure Madonna was pleased with MIA's contribution
to the message
You've got a better shot
at the World Peace thing.
"Work fast. Throw strikes. Change speeds." Ray Miller
Saying something negative about religion isn't irrational. Probably shouldn't be discussed on Camden Chat though.
That is all, I’m going to go watch some Bill Maher now.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
And Christopher Hitchens
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
As in...
17.Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer and burn and scream until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you and he needs money
When the fuck did we get ice cream???
Rational, yes.
Scholarly, no.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
He didn't totally understand the issue.
He was approaching it from a personal experience where he lost a lot of money b/c of pirating. But if you want to de-legitimize someone based on one issue, go for it. I’m a huge Bill Maher fan and I admit he screwed the pooch on that one.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I don't necessarily disagree with some of his ideas
I disagree with the manner in which he expresses himself.
the "I before E" rule does not apply to the name Keith
come on people
clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose...
Thanks Keith.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
I don't.
I like seeing a liberal lay it all out there instead of beating around the bush, like so many of my fellow liberals do. What is wrong with how he expresses himself?
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Multiple recent studies have shown that...
… Americans rate atheists as one of the most disliked groups in the United States.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=in-atheists-we-distrust
Gervais and his colleagues presented participants with a story about a person who accidentally hits a parked car and then fails to leave behind valid insurance information for the other driver. Participants were asked to choose the probability that the person in question was a Christian, a Muslim, a rapist, or an atheist. They thought it equally probable the culprit was an atheist or a rapist, and unlikely the person was a Muslim or Christian. In a different study, Gervais looked at how atheism influences people’s hiring decisions. People were asked to choose between an atheist or a religious candidate for a job requiring either a high or low degree of trust. For the high-trust job of daycare worker, people were more likely to prefer the religious candidate. For the job of waitress, which requires less trust, the atheists fared much better.
I am an atheist
And I dislike a lot of atheists as well, because they are militant atheists who angrily denounce any sort of religion at the slightest provocation.
Funny, I feel that way as a Christian
We only put our crazies on TV too.
C'mon down Benny!
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
TV doesn't like boring rational people
so regardless of viewpoint the pick the person with the least amount of logic to back up their case.
Yeah
Which is why I don’t go mouth-foaming about religion. Because almost everyone is reasonable about the majority of things and unreasonable about a few things.
I only find people's beliefs on the existence or lack thereof of deities annoying
when they try to get me to think that they’re right.
You must currently be a stranger
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Of course there are a lot of militant religious people as well
which is why I hate just about everyone.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I agree with Tom Araya
I got my own philosophy. I hate everyone equally.
He praised my creativity, though he spoke sarcastically...
SLAYER!!!!!!!!!!
GOD HATES US ALL!!!
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
religion is a private. thing
at least to me. I don’t tell anyone what to believe or not believe, and I expect they return the favor. this extends to my athiest friends and my super Baptist cousins
by mdterps0325 on Feb 7, 2012 5:50 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Wanna start a fight?
Compare gay rights to African-American civil rights to anyone over 60 in a black church. Prepare to be struck.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
by duck on Feb 7, 2012 5:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
is it awful if I don't believe that homosexuality is genetic
but rather a decision? a decision I have absolutely No problem with, and support the right for them to be married. But I’m not sure I buy that it is nature rather than nuture. Funny tho, if it is genetic, homophobic societies create more homosexuals.
by mdterps0325 on Feb 7, 2012 5:55 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
The one reason I believe being gay cannot be merely a choice:
At any point in your life, could you will yourself to no longer be attracted to women and be attracted to men both sexually and romantically in their place? Because I couldn’t. I’ve been attracted to boobs since I was 4, and maybe before that.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Heh, this reminds me of Dan Savage challenging Santorum to prove homosexuality is a choice
but having sex with him (in less polite terms).
don't equate me to rick santorum
that asshole is an embarrassment to the right, to Christians, and to americans in general
by mdterps0325 on Feb 7, 2012 6:14 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Then why is he still getting votes?
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
I just don't know.
I hope to everything that the silent majority of non crazy Republicans dislike him as much as me
by mdterps0325 on Feb 7, 2012 6:16 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
yes but
if it was a genetic trait, why would it exist still? long before being gay was looked down upon, a gay person would not pass on the genetic trait because they cannot procreate with their partner
by mdterps0325 on Feb 7, 2012 6:12 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Genetics isn't that simple
it could be intertwined with a whole variety of other traits. If it is genetic, it’s likely recessive and can be passed on to offspring by heterosexual parents.
This, there isn't one "Gay Gene" that is handed down from generation to generation.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
sure, but evolution still works like that, No?
things that deplete the chance of survival tend to get phased out,.right? seriously if I am wrong educate me I am no biologist
by mdterps0325 on Feb 7, 2012 6:18 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Holy hell you just brought evolution into it?!
…oh my goodness I need some fucking popcorn.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
by DCO'sfan on Feb 7, 2012 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, its possible that its a recessive trait thats tied to some very advantageous dominanttraits
so most of the time its good to pass on those genes and they do well, but the recessive trait goes along for the ride and periodically manifests itself without ever disappearing
It's also worth noting
that for decades, and even today, our society has looked down on homosexuality and many men and women have entered into heterosexual marriages in an attempt to not be chastised or thrown from the church. In addition to this, homosexuals still can procreate using methods other than sex.
Basically, homosexuals have been having babies for quite some time, so there’s no reason it would have died out by now even if it was a single gene..
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I mentioned that
when I said homophobic societies breed more gay people if it is genetic. but before societies the practice wouldn’t be frowned upon right?
by mdterps0325 on Feb 7, 2012 6:26 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Well, look at it this way
This is a list of animals that have displayed homosexual behavior. Do you believe these animals are making active decisions to be homosexual? If not, how would you explain it. Again, genes aren’t stand-alone entities, so continued lines are not out of the question.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
RICK SANTOURM WAS RIGHT!
If we are doing it and the animals are doing it, pretty soon, we will be doing the animals.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
can't see link on my mobile.
I’ll retort or concede when I get home, lol
by mdterps0325 on Feb 7, 2012 6:36 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
The link just shows a partial list of animals that have shown homosexual behavior in the wild
basically, hundreds of species from mammals to invertebrates have displayed these tendencies.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
The issue has to do with when something bad happens to your partner
And then you don’t have the same legal protections as a “married” couple would have, for example, if you and your partner adopt in a state that refuses to recognize your relationship, only one parent has the right to adopt, the other has no legal rights regarding that child, if something happens to the legal guardian, then it can be hard to gain custody of the child who you have been a parent to in every way except legally.
Or at least I read something to that effect recently. I believe in equal protection for all Americans regardless of who they choose to have Super Happy Bedroom Fun Time with. Love is Love, regardless of who it is between, and while that might put me at odds with my church, I’ll just tell them to have the one who is without sin stand up and cast the first stone.
he's saying no legal marriage for anyone
the church can say you’re married, but as far as the government is concerned there are only domestic partnerships, regardless of sex.
mitt essentially supports this idea
he just keeps shushing it till he gets out of the primary
by mdterps0325 on Feb 7, 2012 5:56 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
From a government standpoint
That’s fine, so long as the legal protections are identical regardless of what gender my partner may be.
Because at that point it’s an argument over semantic, whether I call it a civil union, marriage, handfasting, or legally-bound-f#$%-buddies, all couples have the same rights.
Pass the damn
equality bill for everybody and lets worry about real issues. You know, like the economy. I hate politics.
Baseball nerd
Predictably,
I’m on the other side of the issue than most everyone else here, but I’ve come to the conclusion that this is the best, perhaps only, solution.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
I don't know how much I want to get into this,
but the reasons are both religious and practical. As far as practical consequences go, one only has to look at the situation Catholic adoption agencies are facing, or the prosecution of religious leaders and ordinary citizens in Britain who repeat what the Bible says on the topic, to see the sort of problems that we’ll encounter.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Senator Nancy Jacobs emailed me back this morning
Dear Michael
Thank you for taking the time to write me about your support for legalizing same sex marriage in Maryland.
Every day I receive far more phone calls, emails and letters from my constituents who support traditional marriage than those who advocate for same sex marriage. Those supporting traditional marriage have multiple reasons for doing so. While many find same sex marriage to be in conflict with their religious beliefs, others believe that preserving the institution of traditional marriage is best for our society.
Many of the financial and legal benefits that heterosexual couples have can be granted civilly to gay couples without legalizing same sex marriage.
The people of Maryland may be able to support civil unions, but I stand with the majority of Marylanders who do not support same sex marriage.
Sincerely,
Nancy Jacobs
Baseball nerd
Separate but Equal
Why not! It worked so well for civil rights!
Dear Nancy Jacobs
Churches grant marriages to gay people as well. Please consider that aspect of the equation.
Churches
are not all the same. Some do, some don’t. The point is, they should be free to do either, so long as the gov’t isn’t favoring one over the other.
Not for nothing but
My thoughts on gay marriages are pretty much the same as my thoughts on guns.
Don’t like ‘em? Don’t have one!
"You should put the secret group of people that you carry with you on your tech equipment second to the person you're sitting with."
- Merrill Markoe
This sounds nice in theory
but nobody dies from gay marriages.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
guns don't kill people
gay marriages do
by Stacey on Feb 7, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Gay marriages and condoms
the number 1 killer of gametes.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Married with Children taught me that all marriages kill people
Just slowly and cruelly.
by Holymittens on Feb 7, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah look at the situation catholic adoption agencies are facing
being told they can’t discriminate against potential adopters. Definitely want to avoid those sorts of problems…
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
They can discriminate based on all sorts of criteria.
They just can’t discriminate between male-female couples and other couples, which even outside the religious issue, is not an irrational basis, even if you disagree with it – I don’t think there’s anything wrong with thinking that it’s best if a kid has a mom and a dad.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with thinking that it’s best if a kid has a mom and a dad.
Theres plenty of data that suggests it doesn’t make a difference
Even more data suggests that the parents' financial situation will impact the child's future financial earnings.
Go figure.
Let’s legislate marriage based on personal income.
Here's an idea I can get behind
Only rich people are allowed to marry!
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
If facts were important
Rick Santourm wouldn’t still be in the primary race.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Frankly
if facts were important I’m not sure what the republican platform would consist of…
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Obama is clearly a gay, atheist, gun-hating, secret Muslim, terrorist appeaser, who was taught by radical European academics while living in Kenya.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
yes,
And he is also a fire-brand Christan who is being controlled by Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, and Saul Alinsky.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Do you actually believe this,
or is your favorite shape just the hyperbola?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Absolutely
trickle down economics has been a pillar of the GOP platform for 3 decades now without an ounce of evidence that anything actually trickles down.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
It's a debatable topic.
You can find results going both ways – it’s a social “sciences” issue. I don’t think you can say that the very limited data available is conclusive. (Hey, this sounds familiar. :P)
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
It's really not "very limited"
gay couples have been adopting kids for decades now. The education achievement, judicial records, and earnings studies all indicate that having two dads or two moms is not in any way detrimental to child development.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
the interesting thing is that peers are actually more influential than parents in terms of a lot of developmental outcomes.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
No gay peers then!
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
i haven't followed this discussion closely, but i can already tell that i'm
so not getting involved in this.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
I wasn't being serious.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Yep
and of course socioeconomic factors too, but all of those tilt in favor of the gays since gays looking to adopt are predominantly more financially secure than the average family having a child. Of course I believe that’s true of all adopters since adoption is generally pretty damn costly.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Research also suggests
that girls raised by lesbian couples are less chaste, which is in my view not a positive development.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Link?
Who is doing this research?
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/6908.html
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
"Daughters of lesbians are more likely to aspire to become doctors, lawyers, engineers and astronauts."
“Levels of anxiety, depression, self-esteem and other measures of social and psychological behaviors were generally similar”
“Sons of lesbians display the opposite – boys are choosier in their relationships and tend to have sex at a later age than boys raised by heterosexuals.”
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
So,
lesbian couples raise girl-power daughters and less masculine (“more sexually restrained, less aggressive and more nurturing”) sons. I don’t see this as a good thing.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
How is it bad that women might have more career ambition?
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
I am against feminist careerism.
I am in favor of women having the same opportunities as men and having complete freedom to pursue those opportunities, but I believe that there is considerable evidence that pushing women into the full-time workforce has had far more negative than positive effects.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
My dad fought was a Marine.
He also spent a lot of time raising my younger brother when my mom was going to law school so she could work full time as well so that my brother and I grew up in the best possible home. Now they both work full time and have for some time and my brother and I got to go to college.
Seems like a lot of positive effects despite a full time working mom and a nurturing dad.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, it often works fine, on the micro level.
But in the aggregate, what we have is demographic decline, decreased earning power, delayed childbearing (leading to fertility difficulties and greater risk of birth defects), and increased marital discord and divorce. And surveys typically show that most women don’t really want to work full-time, anyway.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
I mean, who DOES want to work full time?
by Stacey on Feb 7, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Men, actually.
Maybe not in the job they currently have, but in principle.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
ok well there goes my lighthearted attempt to not be offended by this entire line of conversation
by Stacey on Feb 7, 2012 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Heh, sorry.
I got on a roll, finally catching up to all the lines of the conversation.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Yeah I'm finding this incredibly offensive.
As well as totally ridiculous.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I'd totally not work full time
if i could have all the money to do the things that i want to do outside of work
me too.
If I won the lottery, I would probably start some non-profit to partially occupy my time. Otherwise, I would play a lot of golf.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
I'd ski and own a baseball team
fuck golf
by mdterps0325 on Feb 7, 2012 6:07 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I'd ski too.
Baseball team sounds like too much work.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
What about women who don't want to marry?
Seems like this whole path of logic is built upon upholding ancient and outdated male hierarchies. People should get a job because they are talented, not because they are a male.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Sure.
Let them do what they want. But plenty of people think they don’t care about marriage and kids, until they start getting too old to have and enjoy them, and denying the fact that careerism has tradeoffs – especially for women – does them a disservice.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
And there are plenty of people who legitimately never want to have kids
and fully understand what they’re giving up
But this isn't "pushing women into the full-time workforce"
just because they may be more career oriented doesn’t mean that they’re being forced into it.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Encouraging, rather than pushing, then?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
If you view it that way
or perhaps growing up with 2 moms or 2 dads encourages them to be whatever type of person they would like to since the jobs traditionally split between mommy and daddy are all preformed by the same sex. Maybe it isn’t that it steers them in that direction, but instead steers them in no direction at all and allows them to be their own person instead of conforming to a cultural preset.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I find it doubtful
that being one’s own person equates to careerism in women and milquetoast tendencies in men.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Based on the fact
that in the aggregate, women don’t want to work full-time, and men don’t want to be milquetoasts?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Maybe men don't want to be milquetoasts
because they don’t want to be bullied and ridiculed for acting in a way they feel comfortable. Maybe if people were more accepting of people who acted differently we wouldn’t have this problem. The fact that you see a man who acts in a way you don’t view as “manly” doesn’t mean they should repress themselves.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
On the aggregate
most men and women are subjected to those cultural expectations from birth.
And I don’t want to work full time and I think being overly macho is idiotic. I have no desire to kill animals for fun or fist fight every man I disagree with, and I was not raised by homosexuals. I just don’t give a crap if people think i’m lesss “macho”
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I have no desire to kill animals for fun or fist fight every man I disagree with, and I was not raised by homosexuals. I just don’t give a crap if people think i’m lesss "macho"
Macho and masculine are two different things, in my view. The former is generally compensating. :P
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Says who? Self-reporting surveys?
That has been drilled into us for centuries based on old fashioned ideas of what is thought of as manly and womanly – they are based on exactly what you’re basing it on – opinion.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I find it extremely likely
that not having a preset notion of what a “man” has to be and what a “female” has to be would make both genders meet a lot closer to the middle
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Probably.
But meeting closer to the middle is not necessarily being truer to oneself.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Neither is being influenced by cultural positions of "mom" and "dad"
I’d say the kid that knows they can be expected to preform any task, be it a “girl” or “boy” job, has a better chance of doing what they truly would like to do.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
Maybe, maybe not.
Perhaps the girls simply grow up thinking that they have no choice but to go for an intense career, because they haven’t seen the sacrifices a man is willing to make for his wife and kids?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Whoa...
Are you suggesting women don’t make sacrifices for their families? You just set the women’s rights movement back 40 years, man.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
No, I'm not.
Might want to re-read what I wrote if that’s what you got from it.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
But who is saying that the woman and woman (or man and man) arebn't taking on those same roles?
I’m sure in quite a few gay unions one member is the “bread winner” and the other is the stay at home parent. You’re assuming all gay people do is work full time.
And regardless, I’m not trying to prove it one way or the other, but merely show that there can be alternative reasons behind it. I just don’t think it should be looked down upon without knowing the absolute truth of the matter. Maybe it’s restricting, but maybe it’s liberating and the traditional set up is the one that is in fact restricting. Who knows?
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I think the study said
that most of the lesbian couples had both women working. Either way, though, the girls would not see a man making sacrifices for his wife and kids.
As for the rest: I figure both ways are biased, and I just don’t see traditional gender roles as something we need to be liberated from.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
On this one...
I just want students with two parents. I couldn’t care less what gender. Just somebody who’ll pick up a phone and help me get their kid to do some homework!
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
So that would explain
the rainbow icon. (;-)
"You should put the secret group of people that you carry with you on your tech equipment second to the person you're sitting with."
- Merrill Markoe
No, that's a rainbow my daughter drew in 2nd grade
It reminds me to be happy, even when I’m thinking about the Orioles in 2012.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
by duck on Feb 7, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just wondering if you see
a connection between women HAVING to work full time who would otherwise prefer not to & the corporatist economic system we’ve been operating under since Reagan that basically mandates families middle class & lower can’t get by on one paycheck.
"You should put the secret group of people that you carry with you on your tech equipment second to the person you're sitting with."
- Merrill Markoe
You'd have to elaborate,
which is admittedly tough with the squished columns.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Right. Let me clarify
At various times there are increases in women in the workforce for various reason (men overseas in WWII, women’s lib in the late 60s-early 70s, etc.)
But it became a seemingly permanent feature in US life because of Reagan’s corporatist economic policies.
If you think women working full time because they feel pressured by feminist ideolog is a bad thing, do you also believe it is a bad thing because they feel pressured by an “all power to the corporations” economic agenda, which, as I say, mandates that those middle class & lower be forced to be satisfied with less.
"You should put the secret group of people that you carry with you on your tech equipment second to the person you're sitting with."
- Merrill Markoe
Ah, I think I follow.
I’ll offer a hesitant yes, but if you’d point out some specific policies, I’ll look into it more to come up with a more informed answer.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Well the big one I can think of right off
Has been gov’t. activism against unions starting with busting the air traffic controllers in 1981.
Now I think unions are a mixed bag & I’ve had my share of beefs with mine. And the last thing we need is ANOTHER side track on this thread.
But overall I think history shows that they formed the basis of the stable, single bread winner, middle class family in the mid 20th century.
And I think the trend of gov’t. forcefully taking the side of mgmt. over labour (as opposed to neutrality, which I would prefer) has meant bad news for eveyone, union or non-union, who depends on a paycheck.
And a side effect has been more full time working mothers who would rather be at home.
"You should put the secret group of people that you carry with you on your tech equipment second to the person you're sitting with."
- Merrill Markoe
Heh, well,
my gut reaction to that is to point out that it would’ve been harder for government to do what it did if air traffic control were privatized. :)
But, yeah, the issue’s a tricky one, in part because unions have their own problems. I’m certainly not against unions in principle, but I don’t like what a lot of them have become.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
How do you know whether anybody is meeting in the middle?
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Dave's phrase, not mine.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
But you're the one who's judging based on it.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I don't even know what your point is now.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Really?
I kind of want to outsource my future child rearing to a homosexual couple based on this survey’s results.
Plenty of straight moms raising milquetoasts
Just watch Bubble Wrap Kids.
When the fuck did we get ice cream???
The evidence, however,
is that lesbian couples raise milquetoasts more often that usual.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Definition
(milquetoast) sissy: a timid man or boy considered childish or unassertive.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
I'M not saying anything
I posted the definition only.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
Shhhhhh.... I'm lurking
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
By the way
I just popped milquetoast definition in google and that was google’s automatic unlinked answer.
I only copied and pasted.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Why is it a good thing?
Why is the burden of proof on those who object to systematic changing of society by government imposition, rather than on those wanting said imposition?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
You want
to restrict the rights of private individuals and businesses.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
To prevent them from infringing on the rights of others
Yes. In much the same way the government has rules against theft, because it infringes on your right to own property, I want businesses and individuals (though individuals less so as long as it is done in private and isn’t something like a doctor refusing to treat someone) from being allowed to discriminate and thus infringe the rights of others.
Anyway, I am stepping away from this because I am coming dangerously close making statements that are likely going to be little more than personal attacks. Thank you, Vuff, for remaining civil throughout this.
Fine by me,
and I appreciate your civility as well. I’d elaborate on my view, but since you’re stepping away, that isn’t really fair.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Your side of this is the one asking for government imposition.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Specifics?
I have not asked for government imposition anywhere in this conversation.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Then
you’re making false assumptions about my “side”, aren’t you? Let’s stick to the arguments I’m actually making, rather than trying to discredit them by association with other arguments.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
The entire discussion was about a law banning gay marriage
you came out and say you’re on the opposite side of this issue from most of the people around here. You then went on to say that you think it should be legal for gay people to be discriminated against which would require a change in the law. Not sure where we’re missing each other here…
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Ah.
By “opposite side”, I meant that I’m against government imposition of a new definition of marriage, of which most people here are in favor.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
lol
You can say many things about this debate, but I don’t see how you can argue that marriage is not be redefined, or at least added to.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
You just said you're against government imposition
Is that not what prop 8 is?
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I'm REALLY confused now
the study that you yourself sited as saying girls are less chaste if they’re raised by lesbians which is a bad thing in your opinion ACTUALLY says that sons of lesbians are MORE chaste and you view that as a BAD thing???
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
No.
But if the boys are more chaste because they are less masculine and thus less appealing to most girls, that is bad.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
The article doesn't make that contention
It says they are more sexually restrained, implying they have more restraint, not that they are being turned down by girls.
And how are they evaluating these things?
Presumably, numbers of partners by a certain age. I did say “if”, and the logic is not unreasonable.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
So are you suggesting the government should forbid make something illegal based on some research being done suggesting that the children are somewhat more likely to have more sexual partners? Is that the type of thing the government should have any business worrying about? And is “having more sexual partners” an inherently negative thing, or is it just your opinion that it’s not a bad thing?
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I'm suggesting
that government should stay out of it. Let people who give up their kids for adoption, and people who evaluate couples for placement, do so on the bases they believe are relevant. If kid A’s parents want to give A to an agency that will only place A with a traditional married couple, that’s fine. If kid B’s parents don’t care, or want B with a homosexual couple, that’s up to them, too.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
The big problem here is
the whole “they believe” thing. Let’s say they believe white people make better parents than blacks. That OK in your book? This is just laughably ridiculous.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Frankly? Yes.
I believe that private businesses and individuals should be allowed to be discriminatory for any reason they please.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Sounds like Jim Crow to me.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Jim Crow
was government-enforced discrimination.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
I meant the Era and general social attitude.
And even w/o the Jim Crow laws plenty of places of business would still segregate based on race. Thank god for the Civil Rights Act!
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Oh and even after the Loving v. Virginia decision many states did not abide by the ruling for many years.
Sort of relates, doesn’t it?
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Thank god we don't live in a world where Vuff's vision is reality
whites only restaurants, christians only apartment buildings, etc.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
there's always augusta national
but i think they even let in a black guy.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
not tiger
there some some black they admitted in the 90s. i don’t think there are any women at augusta national though, but i could be wrong.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
although tiger is technically a member of augusta national.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
But no women?
And how did they let in only one black dude? Did they turn away all the other ones before the 90’s?
(pure curiosity here.)
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Ah, and:
And is "having more sexual partners" an inherently negative thing, or is it just your opinion that it’s not a bad thing?
I believe that extra-marital sex is wrong, so.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
There are consequentialist arguments,
but I’m referring to a deontological one, and I highly doubt we’re going to have a productive debate on those grounds.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Considering the moral rules and regulations of moden life do not place much restriction on premarital sex
It being “wrong” on those grounds is a stretch.
You seem to misunderstand deontology.
Under such a belief system, morality has nothing to do with modern life.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Maybe not
I’m going off what Wikipedia says, which claims “Deontological ethics or deontology is the normative ethical position that judges the morality of an action based on the action’s adherence to a rule or rules.[”
Right.
Such rule systems, generally religious or otherwise philosophical, have little to do with the passage of time.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
To which I would say...
A rules system that does not adapt to advances in science and knowledge and the subsequent changes in society wrought by those advantages is no longer a fully valid system.
To which I would say
that human nature doesn’t change with the times, and those who believe that we are any more enlightened than our ancestors are drowning in hubris.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Heh.
I disagree. :)
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
It was Mr. and Mrs. Adam
Not John and Madame
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Cain married his sister brah... I was there
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions
Ah right, i forgot it does actually say Adam and Eve had other children
Either way, theres a lot of of uncomfortable questions to be asked about that 3rd generation of humans
Out of his rib
is marrying a rib better or worse than marrying a man?
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
haha
Yeah we’re all living longer and healthier lives simply by magic.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
by O'sFan21 on Feb 7, 2012 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes,
because scientific advancement and moral enlightenment are the same thing.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Sorry,
I thought the fact that the whole thread was about moral systems, and that my last post was in regard to human nature, gave fairly clear context.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
The thread was about whether gay marriage should be illegal.
Just because you’re making a moral argument about it doesn’t make it a moral argument. It’s only a moral argument for people who believe being gay is more immoral than depriving somebody of their rights.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
"The whole thread"
meaning the one I was having with Holymittens about deontology vs. consequentialism.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
I agree that extra-marital sex is genuinely considered 'wrong' when it is done without the consent of one's marital partner.
Premarital sex, on the other hand, I do not view as ‘wrong’ if engaged in safely, with full respect for possible consequences, and within a caring relationship that is enhanced by sexual intercourse but not based upon it.
You don't like? Don't do it.
Keep your beliefs out of law-making, though because lots of people don’t believe that.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Where did I say anything
about wanting to make a law about it? I was asked a question, and I answered.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
What do you think the entire debate was about?
A law about it!
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Still not sure what you mean.
And I do find it a bit amusing that “Keep your beliefs out of law-making, though because lots of people don’t believe that” only applies to my beliefs, not yours.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
And I'll back you up on that one, too
You ain’t gettin’ my guns, OsFan21
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
by duck on Feb 7, 2012 5:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Alright, who hacked duck's account?
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
My beliefs don't limit the rights of others
unlike yours.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Consistency is all I ask
That’s why I’m a libertarian (small l).
"You should put the secret group of people that you carry with you on your tech equipment second to the person you're sitting with."
- Merrill Markoe
I'm mobile, so I can't add much
But you ain’t alone on that one.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
by duck on Feb 7, 2012 5:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree there,too
but that wasn’t what I was referencing.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
by duck on Feb 7, 2012 5:55 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Depends
If both (or all) parties involved agree to the festivities & are 18+, what’s not to like?
"You should put the secret group of people that you carry with you on your tech equipment second to the person you're sitting with."
- Merrill Markoe
That's fine
but that’s your belief. Why should your belief be thrust upon the country as a whole in law? (Just to be clear, there is no argumentative tone here, I just really would like to know why people feel this way)
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
If gay people are forced to "keep in their bedrooms"
Gun owners should be forced to “keep it in their bedroom”
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
I don't.
I have never said in this conversation that the state should bar homosexual couples from adopting children. I have said, however, that individuals who would prefer kids entrusted to their care to be adopted by a traditional husband-wife household should be able to act upon their beliefs. The laws in question, and their subsequent interpretations, are against those people.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Or a white only household
or a christian-only household, etc.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Sure if you ignore facts it's not an irrational basis.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
No problem.
Hard to have rigorous debate when everyone agrees with one another.
Seems like you all are doing OK up there.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Through O'sFan21 all things are possible
Your cannonball trajectory, it always gave me hope
by Andrew_G on Feb 7, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That's what I tell my clients too.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
by O'sFan21 on Feb 7, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hope you use your real name though.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
did he ever make that $5 M bet on the superbowl or whatever?
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
nope
He was gonna bet on the Pats too.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
on my business cards and everything
I print out arguments with birdman as examples of my work.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
by O'sFan21 on Feb 7, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
BETTER CALL SAUL!!!!
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Will you be my proxy?
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
But of course.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
If I had to pick someone on this board to marry my son, you'd be it.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
but
you wouldn’t want him being able to visit him in the hospital.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
See, there you go taking a lighthearted joke and getting all serious.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
What if you had pick someone to turn your daughter into lesbian? Who you got?!
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
=(
(closes window)
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
self police failure
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
well, i was going to name someone first, but then i did police myself.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
Totally uncalled for me.
(Beckinsale)
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Oh...this answer works too.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
You, birdman.
I’ve got you.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
You're not alone
Lurker 99% of the time, but you and WW aren’t the only one’s who think alike. Some of us just don’t post.
I'd clarify that to apply to political ideology...
The last person to think alike with Wieters Wieners was Ted Bundy… or Al Bundy… or Dylan Bundy…
Hell, I can’t remember anymore.
Lol
Fair enough, although my lack of posting gives you no indication I don’t think that way…
Because everyone here is always talking about dudes who throw baseballs at each other instead of civil rights.
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
How do you throw civil rights at each other?
by kba26 on Feb 7, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Win.
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Hey, I disagree vehemently with a lot of the points of view you've expressed here
and I find many of their implications offensive. But holy crap do I have to give you credit for keeping your thoughts straight and arguing your ideas effectively amidst all of the opposition.
Thank you.
I just feel that political discussions on here could use a little balance, and I’m trying to get better at expressing some of the opposing viewpoints and reasoning. I really don’t expect to persuade anyone that I’m right… just that those who disagree aren’t just a bunch of ignorant bigots, which is often the impression I get from a lot of the one-sided discussions that tend to happen here.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Number of civilizations taken down by gay marriage: 0
Gay marriage became legalized here in 2005, and the impact it has had on everyday culture? Pretty much none. It allows people who love each other the option to have a ceremony that was closed to them before. There are churches that hold out, but it makes news everytime one does, not the other way around. Marriage is so damn good? Let em find out. Marriage is shit? Let em find that out too. I think they deserve to be just as happy or depressed as the rest of us, and frankly, as long as people aren’t into kids or animals, I don’t give a shit.
When the fuck did we get ice cream???
Nick Punto to the Red Sox!
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
asians to the orioles
you dont say!
"I don't have an on-deck circle for ideas. It's just 'Batter up!!' Even though they're bad" - Mike Birbiglia
by Parkinglotninja on Feb 7, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
I don't get it
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
I hear the Browns are moving to Baltimore.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
when should I randomly stop giving mayflower trucks the finger,
especially when I no longer live in Baltimore?
If you look at those UZR ratings or whatever
by dfa on Feb 7, 2012 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
Never fuck them
That’ll teach ’em!
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I hear the Colts are LEAVING Baltimore.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
NO!
But I did hear good things about this new up and comer, some kid named Ripken.
Fuck that guy
Bob Bonner is where it’s at
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
by daveh873 on Feb 7, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd
for the BB reference. Haven’t thought about him in years.
"Work fast. Throw strikes. Change speeds." Ray Miller
word on the street is Moses is leading the Jews out of Egypt
but so far only TMZ is reporting it so who knows if it’s reliable
clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose...
Ask DCO.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Not sure, but Words With Friends doesn't recognize it. (true story)
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, the Washington Post picked up the story, too.
The AP says that Moses had some guy named ‘duck’ negotiate safe passage for them.
ask duck
he’ll corroborate
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
Man, I got nuthin'
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
see, it's funny 'cause you're a contemporary of Moses, see?
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
Ricky Williams retiring?
Didn’t he just say two weeks ago that he’s looking forward to next season.
Baseball nerd
he has always been the most consistent fellow
I am happy that he was able to come to baltimore and have some solid time.
do you know anything about Ricky Williams and his career?
this story will change about 3 more times before the beginning of next season
clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose...
Wait, ricky williams made a decision without thinking it through, and is now making a different decision?
this is even bigger news than the prop 8 ruling!
He didn't think this decision through either.
I expect he’ll end up retiring, but you’ll hear at least once more this offseason that he has decided to return after all.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
I'm cool with it either way
I’d gladly have him back for another year, but i wouldn’t mind seeing a 3rd or 4th round power back to complement Ray Rice
Anthony Allen
did well during the pre-season games. Give him first crack at the backup spot.
Baseball nerd
Damn flip-flopper...
Just like a <insert political party/religion/sports team that is different from your own>!
For any Terps fans that have tv access at work:
Stefon Diggs is announcing at 10AM, live on CSN. For everyone else, i’m sure twitter will blow up moments later.
I dunno, the last visit means a lot
If he kept us on the list but never took an official visit, i’d assume its just a courtesy. But i think we have a legit shot.
Waiting till after the Terps/Clemson game is over.
Coincidence!?!?!
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
People are also reading a lot into the fact that he's announcing on CSN and not ESPNU or something
so thats definitely not a bad sign at least
Yeah absolutely
If he announced he was snubbing ESPN on CSN, that’d be a giant unnecessary Fuck You
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Maryland*
No idea where ESPN came from. Doing too many things at once.
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Well, it wouldn't be the first time its happened
I think right now he legitimately has no idea where he’s gonna go, and the conference has to be scheduled as some point.
That's an important part.
Tommy hunter still sucks!
by Steve. on Feb 7, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Anyone have recommendations for cheap in-home cardio equipment?
i’m open to any sort of bike, elliptical, rowing machine, etc. something lesser impact than a treadmill.
"lesser impact" in what way?
Do you run on the treadmill or walk?
"Work fast. Throw strikes. Change speeds." Ray Miller
Ideally i'm looking for a stationary bike
but i don’t know if any of them in the $200 range are not junk
You can probably find good deals on used ones on craigslist
Lots of people buy, and discard exercise equipment at a big loss.
"Work fast. Throw strikes. Change speeds." Ray Miller
They are junk at that range I'm afraid
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps I could be wrong
Check these out. Walmart’s $150 bike seems to get good reviews. My brother sells exercise equipment but I guess his stuff is higher end.
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
what about checking craigslist?
could probably get a higher end bike for much less money. I also think that to a certain degree the quality of the electronics is a big factor in determining the cost of some cardio equipment, which is something I wouldn’t be too concerned about.
Running away from murdering cannibals is excellent cardio!
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
I have something sort of similar to this
http://www.amazon.com/Sunny-Health-Fitness-Elliptical-Upright/dp/B0016BSLBW
It is definitely pretty junky (the computer stopped working after a few months), but after about 6 or 7 years it still works. As an elliptical, it is completely worthless though, cause it’s suck a fucked up unnatural stride. The tension doesn’t get very high, so even at it’s most tense setting, I can pretty much go for 45 minutes or longer no problem. I’m only limited by my boredom.
What is nice, is that it sits kind of high up, so I have a nice view of the TV. I basically only use to get some form of a workout in while playing video games.
If you already have a bike
you can get a great fluid trainer for around 150
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
interesting
so the normal bike just slots right into this? any recommendations of a particular model?
I have a blackburn
it’s a little loud, but I can watch tv while riding it no problem
Just because you know how to read, doesn't mean you'll like the book.
by arlingtonOsFan on Feb 7, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
I would suggest
getting a trial membership at a local gym and trying some out to see what hurts and what doesn’t. Also be careful about ceiling height in your apartment if you go with an elliptical.
"Work fast. Throw strikes. Change speeds." Ray Miller
Theres a gym i can use already for really cheap
but I know i’m often going to be too lazy to use it. If i have a stationary bike in front of my tv, it’ll get a lot more use.
I meant just to try different equipment to see what doesn't cause joint pain, before you buy.
"Work fast. Throw strikes. Change speeds." Ray Miller
Can the mods do anything about this really long, at times nasty, political debate going on?
I don’t see how lady talk is worse than this.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Can we also get OSF21 to remove "m'effer" from his sig?
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yea...such harsh use of language probably scares the lurkers.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
I think you're missing some prior rapport
if you’re interpreting any of this as nasty.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I don't think it's nasty
But yea….it’d be nice if it was all gone.
I don’t have much tolerance for stupid. Or cheese on food that doesn’t need it. -duck
It's long and there is disagreement, but it's all pretty civil.
Really, as far as civility goes I’d say we’re all in union at the moment.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think we all may be in a common law marriage with the internet already.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Ref says play on
...While you're waiting for moments that never come.
by Astronaut Mike Dexter on Feb 7, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not gonna get in a heated disagreement about it
But the fact is when these types of political social discussions come up around here, the “conservative viewpoint” is pretty openly portrayed as bigoted hypocritical rubbish. My best course of action is to completely stay out of it because the deck is so far stacked and I don’t feel like taking on a rabid mob. But yeah, I’d much prefer gay marriage/abortion or any other super sensitive polarizing issues not be here. But it is what it is…
Bike lanes.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
And i do think it's different
people can (in theory) change their political beliefs based on discussion. You can’t change your gender.
"You can’t change your gender."
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
You certainly can change your gender
and I’m sure it happens more often than people change their beliefs based on internet discussions
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
by daveh873 on Feb 7, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I love your new profile pic btw!
What is that shiny thing which that elite sports player is holding?
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That's the Super Bowl trophy!
It’s awarded to the team that wins the NFL championship each year. However, there is a new one every year. For instance, yhe team that the player pictured plays for had 4 of them.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
by daveh873 on Feb 7, 2012 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That sounds cool
I bet you have to really really great to win that big shiny trophy! I wonder if people get jealous because that trophy is so big and the team that won it is so great!
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Please, the Giants only won because they were lucky 20 weeks in a row.
They don’t deserve that trophy, if they had scored fewer point in the Super Bowl, they would have lost!
by WestcoastO'sfan2 on Feb 7, 2012 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Damn you, WCOF2! Always the hater!
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I enjoy that too
But seriously, it’s all about the ring. I can’t wait to see this year’s design. That always intrigues me.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I got a ring!
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Technically "gender" isn't a physiological thing
Gender is based on cultural behaviors and psychological state-of-mind. Sex is completely different from gender.
Sorry for being that guy.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I bet your weekends are REALLY interesting...
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
by duck on Feb 7, 2012 5:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
To be that guy to that guy
The technical definition of gender has shifted over the years so that it currently, in some contexts, refers to both the physical sex of a person and the social and psychological mindset of a person.
Note that as a person with at least one transgendered friend I do not necessarily agree that such a shift if a good thing.
Work day is over.
Therefore I am declaring the political discussion to be completed with myself as the victor.
Thank you for participating and have a fine evening.
Oh hai guys.
I’ve been so bored that I’m now addicted to The Bachelor. It seems that I forgot this site existed for a few days there. Help me?
What did I miss?
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Politics, Guts got traded, Superbowl, bike lanes, gay marriage, etc.
Aren’t you in Poland now?
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Not until February 26th
Guthrie got traded, I saw that. Sadface.
Oh and according to my graduation cantata the world is ending in 2012. You should all beware.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
I'm still Asian not a middle aged black guy.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
Or a woman.
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
That makes DCO the only middle aged black guy here then.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
I feel like if I came back every day I might have more control over what's said about me...
Evidently, I don’t.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
She's middle aged?
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
Also I'm addicted to The Daily Kos
I read it religiously now and after each article I curse mainstream media.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
I didn't like his second album
his first was amazing, but half the white on the new one sounds like elevator music
by mdterps0325 on Feb 7, 2012 5:59 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I love his second album.
I listen to it 2-3 times a day.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
Yeah about that...
Since when is Bon Iver a new artist? They’ve been around for five years.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
I think you're misunderstanding me.
I love Bon Iver, too. I was referring to the Grammys. They were nominated for Best New Artist. I just went WTF? I thought the new artist award was reserved for… new artists.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
How do you define new? j/k.
I see your point.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
I realize that I sounded like a hipster there for a second...
But just because I wear fucking comfortable skinny jeans does not mean I’m a hipster! …and I like indie music but meh.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
you wear skinny jeans after bashing your buddy for wearing them?
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
He went the distance, birdman.
Skinny jeans, fake horn-rimmed glasses, mustache, ironic t-shirts…
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
R?
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
Also this guy managed to wear a normal tuxedo to prom
So he’s a reformed hipster.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
I could never get into Daily Kos.
It was too… something. I could never really put my finger on it and I still can’t. Just couldn’t stand it. Maybe it’s different now; this was years ago. I am getting kind of tired of Talking Points Memo, so I could stand to branch out.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
For some reason TPM loads really slow for me
So I gave up on it. I think when Marko Whatever his greek last name is ran The Daily Kos it was much more controversial. But they do a lot more fact-digging than the mainstream media does. Like instead of just rebuking Komen they gave actual statistics and facts that outlined Komen’s hypocrisy.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
it wasn't much more controversial
ther was just a lot less competition.
i’m one of dKos’ earliest members.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
I doesn't suprise me that you read it...
religiously
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
ok well you kids enjoy this weird conversation
I’m taking my boyfriend to dinner and I will be paying because I work full time of my own volition and it’s my turn. Then I’m gonna make him take out the trash because he’s the boy.
by Stacey on Feb 7, 2012 6:04 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Driving our society right into the ground!!!!
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
enjoy gettin promiscuous with him after he does that
but only if he bought you roses.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
or jewelry!
I thought of duck at dinner because my bf ordered some steamed dumplings and they were NOT flat.
i missed the whole "flat dumpling" discussion,
but the whole idea is preposterous
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
You've just never had them.
You get back to the East Coast, and I’ll have my mom make up some chicken n’ dumplings for you.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
FTFY
You get back to the East Coast, and I’ll have my mom make up some chicken n’ dumplings weird noodle things for you.
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
They're dumplings!!!!
Y’all are weird.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
I'd have sent them back.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
I really wish my wife would come home from her 2nd job sometime soon...
I sure am getting hungry waiting for dinner to be made for me.
So yeah that Santorum dude you're all talking 'bout
He’s gonna trounce Willard in Minnesota.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
3 states tonight
LEEEEEEEEEGGOOO NEWT
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 6:21 PM EST up reply actions
Newt is gonna get crushed tonight
this race is going to briefly become Romney vs Santorum before Santorum drops out too
gross.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
Here's how I see it:
I want to punch Santorum in the face more than anyone, Romney is next, Newt is so pathetic but I can’t resist punching the silly grin off his face, and Paul… he’s like the senile grandpa I never had. I just wanna give him a hug,
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
If only we could say that about Iowa.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
No, Missouri literally does not count
There are no delegates being awarded in that state. For some reason, they have both a caucus and a primary, and only the caucus awards delegates. Missouri’s primary tonight is nothing more than a really elaborate poll.
Is any one here actually a republican?
And if so, are you really going to vote for one of these people?
I am.
I was going to vote for Huntsman. I still might be voting for Mitt, but I have conceded long ago nothing I do matters in an incredibly blue state
I also have been called liberal by my dad
So I’d consider myself moderate, just registered republican. Pro gay rights, Pro 2nd amendment, and probably in the middle economically.
he seemed incredibly rational and qualified
Which is why he will never be a president
by mdterps0325 on Feb 7, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You specifically asked "republicans"..... ummm, did you really think republicans were going to vote for Obama or are you just kidding around?
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
Reply fail, that was the answer to this question below
Is that really
a better choice than Obama? "sure, I’ll vote for one of these idiots"?
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
If Santorum or Gingrich wins the nomination
I think Republican voting for Obama would be higher than you think
Dude, Mitt is winning the damn thing...
The whole primary has just been foolishness. That’s why I haven’t paid one second attention to it. Vegas had him a 4 or 5 to 1 favorite a LONG time ago. So yes, I will vote for him over Obama. And you will vote for Obama over him. That’s both our choice. You people can call me Luke or John Rocker or whatever you want. This place is seriously getting ridiculous with this bullshit.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
I'm just playing with Luke Scott.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
Oh i know, but we were still talking about it as if the others had any chance
with a sweep today Santorum could still drag Romney into the mud for a few more weeks though
plz don't leave us!
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
Vegas doesn't really do political futures... does it?
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't make the connection of that site to Vegas, I guess.
I get miffed when I see various political media (TPM, Nate Silver, some others) citing Intrade for any reason. It strikes me as really lazy and stupid.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Nate Silver seems to love it, so that gives it some credibility in my mind
but he only ever seems to really use it for comparison. Its interesting, but i don’t know about how reliable it is.
I meant Mitt is 1/20
You have to put up $20 to win $1. Dems are a -175 fave to win the election.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'll go Obama, Rd 2, Submission
Oh, crap, not Bloody Elbow. Sorry.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
But your vote in VA might actually mean something, WW
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Certainly why he'll never be a Republican president.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Obama wasn't qualified either, sorry
Part of a senate term does not qualify one for the presidency. He is rational tho, so 1 for 2.
It all depends on what you think qualified means.
I’d take his lack of qualifications in the oval office over all the cushy jobs that were handed to W any day.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
im not comparing the two
But I would not say Obama was near qualified. I voted for him nonetheless, because Sarah Palin being a heart attack away the president’s chair was terrifying. And guess what, W is gone, so lets compare him to people running.
I'd take W over the people running for the GOP
he’s a moderate by comparison.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
He's not more moderate than Romney circa 2004.
But who knows what the fuck Romney is now.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
There's gotta be a serious skeleton in his closet
to keep him from running. He would won in ‘08, even with his brother’s lack of popularity at the time. Now? Let’s just say Dems were scared to death of him running, and not scared to death of anyone else.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Bush fatigue.
I expect we will see Jeb’s son run for president some day.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
He'll run once his uncle's infamous presidency has faded into the mists of memory.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
there is no such thing as bush fatigue
oh, sorry, didn’t realize you were talking politics.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
by zknower on Feb 7, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The odds of a Republican president getting seriously primary'd are small.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
O'Malley will run.
Book it.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
And he will face Bob McDonnell in the general election.
Book it.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Not having a lot of home state support left never stopped John Edwards.
And look at how that worked out for him.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 8:26 PM EST up reply actions
Um, staring at federal prison, bankrupt, a widower and an out-of-wedlock kid?
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Other than that, how was the play?
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions
He's still got great hair
Oh, and he has his own potentially fatal disease, too, apparently.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Same reason Hillary didn't run in '04, pretty much.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't want to run against Obama with what seems like a slight economic recovery underway.
Say what you want about his politics, but he’s a damn good campaigner.
Karl Hagen, eh, I mean Rove told him it was too soon.
"You should put the secret group of people that you carry with you on your tech equipment second to the person you're sitting with."
- Merrill Markoe
I think he is playing to the conservative of what he is right now
to win the nomination. Then he will pull over to the middle a bit
Shifting to the middle just for the general election will hurt him more than it helps him.
It will just reinforce the notion that he’s a flip-flopper.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Not really
Hillary wasn’t to the left of him on any major issues that I can remember. And the longer this primary goes on, the more Romney gets pulled to the right and the harder it becomes for him to pivot back to the middle for the general.
But's he's done it as pres
He basically gave us Hillary’s health care plan – individual mandate, no public option.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
I'm not saying that I like Obama's shift to the right
But it’s one thing for a President to shift over a period of four years. It’s quite another for a candidate to believe one thing in April and then preach something entirely different in May.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
I merely meant he is downplaying
some of his social opinions, so as not to lose the primary. These will come out again in the general because no vote for Romney will be a vote for Obama, something the far right will begrudgingly accept
We know the far right is going to vote for him in the end.
But independents are liking him less and less, and if he can’t capture that vote, he’s not gonna win. Period.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
I just finished "Game Change"
Holy crap, even I felt sorry for Sarah Palin after reading that.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
yup, total meltdown. can't wait to see the hbo movie.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
Sort of like The Wall
The part where the concert promoter is trying to get Bob Geldoff on stage in the middle of a nervous breakdown.
"You should put the secret group of people that you carry with you on your tech equipment second to the person you're sitting with."
- Merrill Markoe
That was pretty much the image that came to mind
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Floyd Pinkerton!
Please come back Koji, we miss you.
You done made my momma sad, Camden Chat. Shame on you. - duck
Move to the Shore, or at least the right part of Harford County
You can vote for Andy Harris, conservative Republican Congressman for Life!
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
I've been moved from Sarbanes' district into Ruppersberger's this time around.
But same as a decade ago, in my part of Baltimore County you can stand in one spot and spit into four different congressional districts.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 8:14 PM EST up reply actions
He's my congressman for a decade, at least
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Redistricting doesn't happen again until 2022
I’m in a R+15 district until then. Jesus could campaign with Toby Keith and the re-animated corpse of Jack Daniels but if he had a (D) next to his name, he’d lose by 15.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Another reason I'm less than thrilled with MO'M these days.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
True, true
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
There are more than a few republicans here
though i understand why they keep quiet as the rest of us do have a tendency to gang up on them. Deep down, i do think there is a rational wing of the republican party, and i believe pretty much everyone on this site has their moments of rationality.
Not me.
I never think rationally. I’m Loony McLoonPants. In fact, I’m putting in a request to change my name to just that.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Yeah, I have friends who are Republicans
I may not agree with them but I find their views to be completely rational, reasonable, and well thought out when shooting the breeze with them.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
Do your friends
support any of these people?
Granted, I’m a very liberal democrat, but I don’t whole-heartedly support Obama. But you wouldn’t ever catch me voting for the jackasses running for the republican nomination.
If there was a democratically controlled Congress, I think Romney could be an ok president
but if he wins and the Republicans pick up seats, I don’t like the thought of him rubber stamping whatever they want to do
Mitt is easily my first choice if a Republican wins.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
Sure,
I have a friend on facebook who pimps Newt all the time. And he voted for Barack the last election.
Kevin Gregg-"You obviously haven't acquired my taste for pitching yet"
He just wants to live on the moon
"things like locig and prrofreading are actually valued here" - zknower
I dont like people who won't vote the other party no matter what.
The two party system is the worst, too. Mitt is much more liberal than he is leading on to be, because he is in the primary. Obama has shown to be more moderate himself then he led on to be to win the primary. In a system where Howard Dean or Rick Santorum has a lead at any point, its a broken system.
Comparing Rick Santorum to Howard Dean is silly.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Right, Howard Dean isn't a climate change denier or a homophobe.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
he was about as left as you could get in a candidate
Santorum is probably a worse human being, but he is to the right what Dean was to the left, a voice for the extreme
Wrong
Dennis Kucinich is the most left that you can get.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
He was about as far left as the current political spectrum would allow a candidate to go
which isn’t very far at all. The whole thing has been pulled dramatically right.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
Me too
and I enjoy good debates with them, but then they vote for guys they know are absolutely ridiculous just because the R is next to their name.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
That rational wing is getting buried a little deeper each year.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
I hesitate to even call myself a Republican at this point.
They’re for big government too, just of a different variety than the Democrats.
Paul 2012.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
There's about 80% of his policies...
where I think to myself, “Damn, this man gets it!”
Then there’s the other 20% that’s just bat-shit crazy talk. And that scares me.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Like how he doesn't think the Civil Rights Act should have been passed?
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
That's part of the 20%
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
here's his reasoning
http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/civil-rights-act/
So maybe you’ll agree and maybe you won’t, but the reason isn’t because he’s racist or dislikes black people.
I'm a firm believer
that the government has to step in sometimes to prevent people from being complete assholes to each other. I don’t want Kraft Foods to have the legal ability to sell me food that can cause me to die. I assume most here have read at least an excerpt of “The Jungle” at some point in their lives. Do we really want it to be legal for companies to kill us or discriminate based on race?
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
As the Poli Sci majors among us might say...
Ubi jus ibi remedium.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
Libertarians tend to have a well rehearsed answer for this
“it was the government who forced them to use human meat in the first place, man!”
I’m just poking fun…. don’t attack me… some of my best friends are libertarians.
like I said elsewhere, there is a role for government in libertarian ideology
obviously if you’re selling tainted meat and people get sick, the government would prosecute if it was done knowingly.
But that would be interference by government!!!!
The free market will solve the problem! Most likely by offering a discount on coffins…
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
this is a misunderstanding of libertarianism
people can’t knowingly murder people or poison them because that would be infringing upon their rights. And if someone knowingly poisoned you, not only would they be prosecuted but you would be able to sue them etc.
The only way they would get away with it would be through lobbying and/or corruption.
And if it's an accident because none of the companies want to fund the appropriate research
to ensure that people don’t get sick? Bummer for the people that got sick.
That's fine when it's a clear cut case like knowingly poisoning somone
But what about cigarettes? I bet the market would sure support a lot more smokers if there were no restrictions on advertising. And what about to children? Let’s let them make cartoon characters all be smokers.
The basic point is this:
there would not be an absence of non-profits or NGOs observing this stuff, doing studies, making recommendations, research, etc. It just wouldn’t be a role of government.
again
there would be consequences if someone was harmed, injured, killed, etc. Financial and legal consequences. Everyone has a right to live and not get killed by negligence.
Well under that model
everybody has the right to live and not get killed by negligence, but if they do maybe their family will get some kind of retribution, or not.
And "further" the definition of harmed comes in to question
Should companies be allowed to market cigarettes to children? Are you going to deny children their god given right to choose whether or not they want to smoke grape flavored cigarettes? Are those children “harmed” in this scenario? Can they sue? Not likely.
I don't see why things would've played out any differently than they have
Smoking causes cancer, and cancer kills people. I even think the government would still have gotten involved. That’s different than offending someone.
In a libertarian world
the solution would have been for the market to realize that cigarettes cause cancer and stop buying the product. No?
there would be no government in an anarcho-capitalist society
only the invisible hand of economics. In a libertarian society, there would be a federal government in place to enforce contracts, provide national defense, and to protect your civil liberties (i.e. not dying, not getting beat up, not eating poisoned food). The machinations of such a government could still include oversight and departments and etc, but at a much, much reduced level than what we see today. They would still have real power to levy real consequences for breaking contacts or infringing upon your civil liberties.
I don't believe that last sentence
Any attempt to do so would be seen by businesses as unneeded government interference.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
I don't see the government in your vision
preventing cigarette companies from marketing their products to children.
I absolutely do not believe that would happen
I believe libertarianism is corporatism with better PR.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Troll
But it’s late & I’m tired. I’ll have to correct you some other time.
"You should put the secret group of people that you carry with you on your tech equipment second to the person you're sitting with."
- Merrill Markoe
Eh who knows the logistics of such a system
obviously there would be oversight and inspections, it would just most likely be done by some sort of trade organization determined not to have the industry get a black eye or get sued into oblivion. Kind of like Underwiter’s Laboratory.
Yeah.... those things are called government programs...
that’s what libertarian ideas call unnecessary.
My point here is that you want the functions of the governmental agencies,
but you just don’t want them to be called “governmental agencies.” I don’t buy the argument that private is always better, so I disagree.
companies regulating themselves
so yes it would be after all the people have died. Like it was before government regulation.
maybe, maybe not
it would certainly be in their best interested not to have anyone die, because not only would they be prosecuted and be liable for damages, but their reputation would suffer. It doesn’t seem like it would be good business. These are just the general ideas of what would happen.
disagree
it hasn’t been tried in modern times with modern technology, anyway. Word travels a lot faster now than it did 120 years ago.
you have me at a disadvantage because I'm not anywhere near an authority on anything financial
so can’t comment to this.
This again?
Banks make bad loans when they know they’ll get bailed out. They don’t do it when they know they’ll go bankrupt.
And with regulation in general, all you have to do to get something approved is lobby sufficiently, and people are less vigilant about doing their own research because they assume that the government is protecting them.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
None of the banks making the loans got bailed out
they sold them immediately because that’s what they were allowed to do and they have faced no backlash despite their borderline and in many cases actually fraudulent and predatory loan practices despite the new media and technology.
Sold them to whom?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Right.
So they got bailed out. They knew that Fannie and Freddie would buy everything up and then get a massive amount of made-up money from the Fed.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Huh? No they didn't.
The lenders themselves did not get bailed out. Unless you consider Morgan Stanley and JP Morgan and Lehman Brothers purchasing the loans from them a “bailout.”
It pretty much is.
If A can buy B because it knows that the government will come to the rescue in the end, chances are B knows about this too. Who gets hurt in the end? Not the bankers.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
There's a difference between not being hurt
and being bailed out. Government had nothing to do with the lenders not facing any consequences for their behavior. Lack of regulation did.
lol
They haven’t faced any consequences because the Fed has bailed everyone out in the end. Except, you know, the little people.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
I'm confused - they didn't get bailed out at all.
If the government let the big investment banks collapse the original lenders would still be in the same position they are now – sitting on their booked profits and foreclosing on houses.
How do they make money
by owning assets which are plummeting in price and having debtors who aren’t paying them?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Why would the big banks
buy failed investments if they didn’t know they’d get bailed out?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
You honestly think
that the investment banks took that into consideration? They bought the loans because they thought they could sell them to their clients which they did for a very long time.
Of course I do.
Why wouldn’t they? And why would their clients buy questionable investments if they didn’t know the same?
It’s all a racket, and the government is complicit, more often than not. And I’m done here; it’s late.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Because that's not how businesses operate.
As I said they bought them because they assumed real estate would continue to go up and they could peddle them off on their customers. A possible bankruptcy saving government bailout was not part of the equation – ever.
Sure they do
Because the people who profit off those bad loans bail before the company goes under.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
How do they bail?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Golden parachutes, cash in options, poof, gone.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
I'm not sure
that often leads to CEOs deliberately bankrupting their companies – there’s more profit to be made in success than in failure, especially if the government isn’t there to protect you when you fail. If they’re breaking the law, they should be prosecuted; if they’re not, they’ve made a mistake. Right?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
You're assuming they will actually be prosecuted
Exactly no one has had charges even filed against them for the 2008 meltdown. If that doesn’t get a single soul behind bars, what will?
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Government won't prosecute anyone
when they had such a major role in the crisis themselves.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Yes?
Nobody wants to risk incriminating themselves.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
So the solution is to not have organizations who were peripherally involved in the issue regulating it
but have the people who were DIRECTLY involved and responsible for it regulating it.
Magazine circulation was in the millions in 1900 or so.
Didn’t stop companies from killing their workers.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Corporations couldn't give a rat's ass if people die
And in a corporate-owned media environment, we’d never know.
I reject any system that relies on corporate self-governance. It simply does not exist in any meaningful way if there is an extra penny of profit to be made by ignoring it.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Honest question.
Why, in your view, is government regulation more reliable than industry self-regulation and market forces, given the prevalence of lobbying and corporatism?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Because I know corporations don't give a shit about me
At least an elected official needs my vote, eventually.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Sure,
but national politicians only need your vote once, and then they’re set for life – through corporate connections they make, even if they don’t keep their position, though they probably will since incumbents have such massive advantages.
Corporations need your money as much as, if not more than, politicians need your vote – as long as government isn’t in their corner. And corporate money helps a politician win votes a lot more easily than most organizations of citizens can drive votes in the other direction.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Gov't is inherently bad or set up to protect companies.
Companies are born to make a profit no matter what.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
But corporations can set up a system where I have to give them money whether I'm happy with them or not.
Like cable, or health insurance, or hell, just about any service in modern America. And the courts are completely on the side of corporations. Look at the fracking situation in PA, or just ask our Moscow correspondent how that’s worked out at his family home in PA. Families can light the kitchen spigots on fire, but corporations made sure they can never be held responsible. Hell, it’s basically legal to kill coal miners in WV. Health insurance companies can cancel once a customer gets cancer, and nothing the customer can do. But forget to make one payment, and the wrath of God comes down on consumers. And sometimes, it doesn’t even take missing a payment. Just be the victim or mistaken identity or incompetent paper-pushing…
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Sure,
but corporations can’t come to your door with guns for not buying cable. Government can and will do that if you don’t pay your taxes.
Look, duck, I’m not saying that government = bad, companies = good. I’m saying that both are made up of self-interested people, and entrusting any organization with more than a bare minimum of power is a bad idea, because that power can and will be abused. We’ve tried the “big government to protect us” approach for a long, long time now, and I think you’d agree that it isn’t really working all that well, given a lot of the complaints you have. Instead of just getting screwed by a corporation that eventually suffers real losses, whether by suit or by boycott, we get screwed by corporate-governmental alliances that we are completely powerless to do anything about. Why not try something else?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
That's not a good argument.
“why not?” Because you shouldn’t play with governmental policies on “why not?”s
Really?
It’s our system in a nutshell, which is why I don’t like so much being done on the federal level. How many government policies are implemented knowing all of their consequences beforehand? None. Politicians pass laws based on a perceived solution to a problem all the time, essentially saying, “Why not? It might help.”
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
All of which
has an agenda of its own, and none of the policies they want to implement can be tested in any meaningful way in advance.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Since when do corporations suffer losses for screwing people over??
I don’t see the cable companies, or the health care companies, or the fast-food companies suffering losses by suit or boycott.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
Because people still buy their stuff?
If people really felt that screwed over, they wouldn’t buy cable or eat at fast food restaurants.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Or people don't realize they are getting screwed over.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
So it's the government's job
to protect us from our own bad decisions? It’s not like the information isn’t out there.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
There are other ways to deal with that.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Just let the Free Market decide what is best for people.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
Allowing behavior
to have an effect on health insurance premiums, for instance?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Different question.
You do like to pivot.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Well, if you're proposing regulating behavior through insurance premiums
addressing the uninsured seems to be a natural next question
I'm not sure I understand.
Is the point just that insurance would become more unaffordable for those who participate in risky behaviors?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Not at all
You said that increasing insurance premiums was a way to deter unhealthy choices, but that would have zero impact on all the millions of uninsured people who are most at risk for making unhealthy choices.
Did you hear Ron Paul?
We should let them die!
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
well, perhaps I missed something
but I’d be very surprised if you could link me to an exact quote, or anything resembling that in context.
This is what happened:
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/13/news/la-pn-ron-paul-gop-debate-20110913
He didn’t say that directly, but its a pretty clear implication i think
Heck no.
Read what he actually says: let charity take care of the man, which is how things were done before government got involved and inflated costs.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Oh, please.
Yeah, back in the days of polio people relied on charity. How is someone with a life threatening condition and no health care going to get charity treatment?
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 11:09 PM EST up reply actions
What really happened before government got involved
is poor people died of things that rich people didn’t. It’s really that simple.
As long as we don't end up like all those unhealthy obese Europeans!
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
And rich people
don’t still have an advantage? They always have and they always will.
I’m checking out for the night, all.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
They have an advantage, but the poor people aren't dying in the street.
I’ll take this world rather than that one. It seems like folks to the right always have fond memories of the past that weren’t really fond for most of the population.
Luckily we can protect that huge advantage
by never taxing millionaires or billionaires properly.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 11:18 PM EST up reply actions
Unfortunately, that's still happening
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
So, the Scrooge theory of childcare?
Are there no poorhouses?
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Hell yes.
They should be going to all the major fast food companies and imposing regulations on where and how they get their food and they should cap the levels of fats, sweets, and sugars that go into a meal. They should ban Trans-fats just like the city on New York did.
Also, Soda Tax please!
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
At least it's a diet coke.
Although I never found diet soda to be all that pleasing. I’d rather drink water.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions
I think its an acquired taste.
my mom would never buy soda with sugar in it when i was a kid. i actually prefer it now to regular coke.
Absurd.
Government recommendations have contributed to obesity for decades, by telling everyone that we should base our diets on a crapton of low-nutrition carbs.
And I guess that means that government’s completely justified in anti-marijuana legislation, then?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
Fat is the nicotine of the 21st century.
In the past people didn’t understand nutrition as well, but now the facts are starting to become well known. Also, seems to me a lot of people are claiming the opposite since they are all moaning that Michelle Obama is trying to force them to eat vegetables (that green floppy thing on your burger).
Also, the health benefits of pot in moderation are still up for debate. I try to avoid that issue because anti-legalization people annoy me and most pro-legalization get on my nerves as well.I’m not a fan of people sitting around smoking all day, but I could see myself supporting gov’t dispensaries.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
And that, boys & girls is why
I went from liberal to libertarian a long time ago.
Singling out a product for extra taxation that only OTHER people buy is a sure way to piss off voters.
Oh, and as someone who lives just outside of NYC, I say don’t hold Bloomberg up as some kind of role model. He’s a self-righteous, grandstanding buffoon.
"You should put the secret group of people that you carry with you on your tech equipment second to the person you're sitting with."
- Merrill Markoe
"Singling out a product for extra taxation that only OTHER people buy is a sure way to piss off voters."
I still buy soda. I wouldn’t mind a little tax as a voice in my head saying “hey, don’t buy that.”
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 11:14 PM EST up reply actions
It isn't when corporations own all the media outlets
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
If I have to pick between a corporation or government to provide a service
I’m picking government just about every time.
And corporations just make sure that not only cannot I not buy their brand of cable, but that I can’t buy anyone else’s, either.
Also, "big government to protect us" is working a hell of a lot better than when we had a laissez-faire approach to businesses. Ask any descendant of a worker killed in the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire or Sago Mine disaster.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
And corporations just make sure that not only cannot I not buy their brand of cable, but that I can’t buy anyone else’s, either.
How do they do this without government assistance?
And doesn’t Sago Mine show that government safeguards often aren’t enough?
I’m getting burnt out on this; aside from that brief respite from PhilR8, I’ve been at this for ages. :P
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
they do it without government assistance
through vertical, or horizontal integration. The way the railroads did it.
Pretty sure
government had a hand in railroads. National security implications and all that. But I’m out of my depth there.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
We really don't need to speculate about this stuff.
There was a time when government did not play such a large regulatory role and we had children working in mines, factories with no emergency exits, cars that were totally unsafe, and as duck points out above companies actually killing their employees rather than negotiate with them.
Why do we need to speculate about what “would” or “could” happen if industries regulated themselves? We already know!
And?
Tell me, when has government successfully anticipated accidents? Where are all these great successes of anticipatory regulatory policy? Why instead do we only hear about the failures, of which there are many? Why do local governments always seem to wait until someone actually dies before putting in a traffic light at that intersection everyone knows is dangerous?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
They will if a few outspoken R officials get their way
Seriously, there’s a few out there calling for a repeal of child labor laws. Don’t think it isn’t part of the overall goal of total laissez-faire government. I honestly think that Republicans simply want the government to exist to outlaw abortions and buy trillions of dollars of military equipment.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
ummm...If I could just jump here on one little point:
Why do local governments always seem to wait until someone actually dies before putting in a traffic light at that intersection everyone knows is dangerous?
That is completely, utterly, and entirely untrue.
He tends to be right on some issues (IMO of course)
but for the wrong reasons. Like the social issues. He wants more freedoms, but ONLY because he thinks the government shouldn’t have a say in them, not because of any belief that people should have such freedoms.
Hm?
He wants more freedoms, but ONLY because he thinks the government shouldn’t have a say in them, not because of any belief that people should have such freedoms.
What’s the difference?
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
It's not huge, I'll grant that.
I believe that people, homosexuals, for example, shouldn’t be discriminated against in any way because there is no reason to discriminate against them. The libertarian idea is that they shouldn’t be discriminated against because the government has no right to discriminate against anybody.
But wouldn't libertarians say businesses should be free to?
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
they would likely say
people who discriminate will either a) come to their senses when they see so much business dry up because they’re not catering to a large population while also alienating potential customers, or b) cater exclusively to bigots and make a living that way.
a) won't happen and b) sadly will
Any plan that relies on businesses coming to their senses is bound to fail.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
I'm not saying I would find it personally okay
or even agree with it being allowed to happen. I’m just saying that it would be one outcome, and it would most likely spawn an equal or greater number of competitors who would see things differently and welcome any and all customers.
I didn't say it would be okay
but perhaps the non-discriminatory businesses would grow, since they’re not turning anyone away, and eventually put the other guys out of business or force them to change their policies to prevent them from going under. Or maybe push them to the fringe and make them some sort of bigot boutique.
I think you are underestimating the number of bigots in this country.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think I am personally
which is why I don’t really think I agree with this particular point. I’m sure in the South the bigoted stores would still be excluding the black minority if there hadn’t been any government intervention. I’m just giving you the general libertarian argument.
All of these "perhaps" situations are a problem
what if they don’t? Then there’s just a discriminatory business operating happily in our society.
Of course it's not OK.
The question from the libertarian point of view is, “Should the government have the power to stop this?”
Also, if the government has that power, then what else does that enable the government to do by extension?
Coming at it from the other side, the question is, what effect does it have on society if this sort of business is allowed to operate in the open? Sadly, it is unlikely to be an isolated sort of incident, and I think certain places would be back on a trajectory to the Jim Crow era, as much as they would be allowed to bring back. So, I have no problem with that kind of legislation… but then, I’m not a libertarian.
"So I said, 'Looks like they've finally got Ogea in the pen. I wonder if the glove fits.' I thought I was going to get fired." - Mike Flanagan, RIP
by Eat More Esskay on Feb 7, 2012 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
Which is why the whole idea
of market forces taking care of things is a fallacy. As duck said earlier – people will always be assholes to each other if given the chance. Been that way for our entire history.
Yeah, that's why I disagree with them.
Because they’re not contesting the idea that there MIGHT be something worth discriminating against.
to be the devil's advocate
I dont see this as being any different than Westboro Baptist ruling. Despite being an awful opinion, and clearly affecting people emotionally by protesting funerals, they have the right to their awful opinion. As do racist restaurant owners. I just hope people would not go there enough to make it financially inviable
The westboro stuff is protected on the basis of protecting free speech slippery slope yadda yadda yadda
But things like restaurants, being open to the public, are beholden to different rules.
Ehhhh Westboro Baptist
is just being annoying – they aren’t preventing anybody from doing anything that anybody else is allowed to do.
well libertarians aren't anarchists
there will always, in libertarian ideology, be a government to enforce contracts, for national defense, and to protect your rights.
I'm not holding my breath on the "protecting your rights" part
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
It's where the left and right meet
Prohibition, for example. The left say it was about personal freedom, the right say it as unneeded government interference on business. Same conclusion – Prohibition wasn’t needed – from two vastly different viewpoints.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
that's a mischaracterization, I think
Ron Paul has plenty of personal beliefs that are socially conservative, but he doesn’t think the government should also have those beliefs, or actively encourage them. Everyone should be free to believe what they want. He’ll always come down on the side of freedom even if he personally disagrees.
Right that's exactly what I mean.
Where my beliefs on policy coincide with Ron Paul, they do so for dramatically different reasons.
you said he doesn't think people should have those freedoms, though
not to put words in his mouth but based on what I’ve heard and read, he does. He personally disagrees with doing drugs, for example, but doesn’t want anyone to tell you that you can’t do it so long as you don’t harm anyone else.
Gary Johnson is your answer
Probably L party nominee, 20 years younger than Paul & 20% less crazy.
"You should put the secret group of people that you carry with you on your tech equipment second to the person you're sitting with."
- Merrill Markoe
I'm surely going to vote for one of them.
A non-vote is, in essence, a vote for Obama.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a card-carrying Libertarian
but if there’s still hope for Ron Paul by the time the MD primary rolls around, I’m going to become a Republican to vote for him. Although I guess I should check to make sure I’m not too late already.
I think you have till March 13 or something.
Get ready to do that; I don’t think he’s dropping out.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
That makes 3 of us.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
nobody got shot and there were no tits
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
I enjoy a good power stuggle, interesting characters
while it was a while ago, it just seemed like it had neither of those. Not going to say I don’t like shooting and boobs, but I do not by any means only watch things with shock value
there were tits in Ep 2
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
That was a very HBO moment.
Seemed out of place in this show though.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
that whole scene was a little ridic
i hope they’re not that sloppy that often.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
The ladies in the scene or the show runners?
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
ahaha
the showrunners
it felt very forced. like Milch heard a funny story and decided to jam it into the teleplay.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
So, how bout that MD game...
Looking decent so far. We REALLY need to beat Clemson.
Will work for Recs.
Yeah dude, ESPNU.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
We definitely aren't out of it yet...
But we need to start making our run. Gonna need a quality win or two along the way.
Will work for Recs.
by Wieters Wieners on Feb 7, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Okay guyz I
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
by DCO'sfan on Feb 7, 2012 7:29 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Damnit
Okay guys I’m off to read about Bibi’s plans to firebomb Iran’s nuclear facilities. Oh jokes. I’m actually going to watch a soap opera. Sooo much better.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
speaking of bombing stuff in the middle east
We’re totally getting dragged into Syria very soon. Shit is getting too bad over there.
I don't see that happening.
In my cynical view (and prepare yourself for some major cynicism), we witnessed the extremist takeover in Egypt, and the U.S. might think it’s more viable to let a secularist madman continue to rule than some clerical quasi-democratic government.
Boom.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Not cynical at all.
Standard practice, really.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
It's sad, though.
In a lot of ways I think the rebels should just give up to end the bloodshed. Unlike Libya they should know by now that the West isn’t going to aid them (thanks a lot, Egypt). Without NATO there’s no hope. Plus, how exactly would NATO get involved without actually going on the ground? Obama can’t afford any more soldiers dying overseas. The Syrian rebels are disorganized and scattered. There’s no easy way for NATO to act as their air force.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not Jewish.
Yeah.
Too bad the West has spent so much time and money propping up tyranny in the region, huh? Rebels might have a chance without our help if we hadn’t built up their dictators.
"Your most precious possessions on offense are your twenty-seven outs." -- Earl Weaver
just finished breaking bad
wow season 4 was fucking intense.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
without being too spoiler-y
you mentioned earlier that you were annoyed about some unrealistic aspects of an episode. What did you think of the season 4 finale?
Theadjack:
as the resident cyclist, how cheap can i go on a decent road bike and be happy with it? I’d probably only be riding it 10 miles or so at a time max
For fitness or for transportation?
Fitness:
Trek 7.1FX is a great bike at an “entry level” price. It’s a “fitness hybrid” so no drop bars but meant for excercise.
If that’s still a little too expensive, you can go for a “comfort hybrid” like this Giant Cypress. Meant for more leisurely biking but I actually had an old Giant Crosstown comfort hybrid and I put a ton of miles on it and it’s really the bike that got me hooked on cycling.
Primarily fitness
i may occasionally bike the 10 miles to work, but that would be to combine my exercise and transportation, and not my primary mode.
both are fine
Trek is a better bike obviously but if you’re not sure how much you’ll like cycling you should probably buy something like the Giant and upgrade later on. Also, if you’re going to commute, I suggest fenders.
Build it, man!
You can buy premium parts individual and assemble it and save a lot. My wife’s dad did that for 3-4 bikes now, but he’s pretty handy.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
it is way cheaper
I don’t enjoy building bikes, though. I even hate maintaining mine. I usually have my brother work on ’em for me, because he loves doing it. I just want to ride ’em.
well
probably not. It’s cheaper to build an expensive bike than to buy one whole, but that’s at a level where some individual components can be $200. If you’re on a $200 budget you should check craigslist for name-brand hybrids and then go check it out, and if you eventually develop a love for biking you can upgrade that bike, eventually build up a room full of all kinds of spare parts, and then you can build bikes just for the hell of it because you have a million parts laying around.
For starters, though, I’d recommend the Giant Cypress or a name-brand CL bike.
He loves it
I always like the idea of stuff like that and then I suck at it and get frustrated immediately.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
while we're on the topic
any thoughts on those fluid trainers someone recommended above? I like the idea of having a stationary bike and real bike in one
trainers are really loud, usually
although arlingtonOsfan may dispute that, I don’t know. I don’t like using them personally.
I also forgot about a site called BikesDirect that sells really bikes really cheaply. Here’s a comort hybrid for $250:
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/motobecane_elite.htm
hm, the sites i've been reading say they're quieter than a comparable exercise bike
I’ve never even heard of them before today so i’m not sure what to think of them
my brother bought a $1000 motobecane mountain bike from that site
it’s a great bike. Just anecdotal evidence that you’re not buying a total piece of crap.
Nothing has really jumped out at me other than that.
I am eating you, motherfucker. You cannot hurt me. - PhilR8
O's in on Soler
a lot of people say yes
Better than leonys martin, at the very list, who was in the rangers top 5 prospects, in a very deep system
Gotta catch the end of the UMd game
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
By the way...
….if any of you Pick ’Em types is watching the series premiere of The River tonight: the Jeff Galfer on that show is the same Jeff Galfer from our pick ’em pool.
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
he's also the firs guy who speaks
in this unaired superbowl commercial
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
*first guy
"End of season like this, to make Boston go home sad, crying, I’ll take it all day."—Robert Andino
This looked interesting. Ride the Lightning in it's entirety? Awesome!
Then I read they will be playing Black Album in it’s entirety as well. :-/
But then I saw Roky Erickson and The Sword will be there as well. So, SOLD!
http://loudwire.com/metallicas-orion-festival-atlantic-city/
He praised my creativity, though he spoke sarcastically...
The Sword with Metallica again?
AWESOME. My God, do they rock. Even without the original drummer, I gotta see them again.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
This looks like it could be a pretty cool fest.
The price is reasonable enough, and it’s only a 2 hour drive for me.
He praised my creativity, though he spoke sarcastically...
by PBR me ASAP! on Feb 7, 2012 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure my kid will have a softball tournmament
and if my $$$ situation was a bit better, I’d go, but instead, I’ll wish you a fun weekend.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
How so?
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
They're sitting there watching people sort pieces of paper
while wolf blitzer constantly peppers reporters with questions about whats going on
CNN, from what I can tell by watching the Daily Show is pretty terrible.
But there isn’t really a better option.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
ooooh, let's talk about how we need to cut NPR to save America.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 9:23 PM EST up reply actions
Romney in 3rd in two states right now.
albeit with very small numbers in.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
:(
http://www.whosay.com/jeremyguthrie/photos/126898
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
Holy hell, people.
Did you not get the memo that the political debate was over at 5:15pm because I won?
Was I really gone long enough that Camden Chat sunk to the point where I, Tezcatlipoca, am the voice of reason?
UMd won a road game
We’re in crazy times, man.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
Some high school in California has a 7'5" player from Senegal.
That ain’t right.
On the other hand, he’d better enjoy it now. He really doesn’t seem to display good basketball skills other than being tall. I doubt he’ll make a huge impact for a DI team.
You can't teach height
some D1 team will take a flyer on him. He probably won’t develop the other necessary skills, but you never know.
In other news Santourm pulled of a hat trick.
Even if Missouri doesn’t count.
Romney finished 3rd in COL and MIN.
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 10:44 PM EST reply actions
ugh, I just really want Rick to win!
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Santourm Surge!
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
nah and Denver and CO Springs have 0% in
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
He's got a mouth full of santorum
He praised my creativity, though he spoke sarcastically...
by PBR me ASAP! on Feb 7, 2012 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
“Look what the homosexuals have done to me, Minnesota, it just makes me want to….set myself on fire.”
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 10:54 PM EST up reply actions
I love how he attacks Obama for being an "academic"
As in “Hey, the president should be a moron! Vote for me!”
"I do think that socializing on the Internet is to socializing what reality TV is to reality."
Aaron Sorkin talks about Facebook - September 30, 2010
by WestcoastO'sFan on Feb 7, 2012 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
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