It's been a while. Where should we begin? Feels like forever.

Yeah that's some Creed, wanna fighdabouddit?

The 2008 rivalry between the Seattle Mariners and Baltimore Orioles really started on February 8, 2008.

That was the day we traded Erik Bedard to the hopeful Mariners, who thought their 88-74 season in '07 was no fluke (it was), and that Bedard probably pushed them into serious contention (he didn't).

Let's compare the results of this trade. Bedard has gone 4-4 with a 4.26 ERA and 1.30 WHIP in 61 1/3 innings for the Mariners. He currently sits on the DL with "left shoulder stiffness." He is VORPin' a cool 11.0 this year.

And then there's Adam Jones. Happy 23rd birthday, big guy! Jones is hitting .274/.317/.403 -- not a world-beater yet, but he can clearly play. He's also a funny dude and is destined to be a long-time fan favorite. AdRock's VORP is 9.3.

George Sherrill is overrated as all hell by his 30 saves (4.23/1.46), but he had a great performance as the O's lone All-Star and has done a nice gap-filling job as the closer, a role for which he's just not particularly suited. That's not his fault; he's best maximized as a LOOGy who can not totally die against right-handed hitting, but he's done his job.

We won't even count the prospects we got back.

The Mariners came to town on April 4 for a four-game set. We swept them right the hell out of town, a series that included the amazing Luis Hernandez as Hero moment, his game-winning single that propelled the O's to a 3-2 win and popularized the phrase "This is Birdland." It was Luis Hernandez and that win that made "Birdland" go from laughable marketing gimmick to something bigger that we now love.

Later in the month, we went out to Seattle, lost the first game, and then won the next two, including a big comeback in game three sparked by a Jay Payton home run and -- if I may be so bold -- my own personal, undying optimism (which has since died).

But baseball moves fast. Luis Hernandez isn't with us anymore, nor is the outstanding honorary Oriole in the Mariners bullpen, Eric O'Flaherty.

But all great rivalries must begin anew, really, year-by-year. Players come and go -- it's the passion and joy that makes fierce competitions like Orioles-Mariners what they are.

The last time we saw Seattle, Lookout Landing user 'Happybelly' remarked, "Get the Orioles the f--k out of here."

Look out -- here we come again!

Jeff Nettles is slugging the ball pretty well right now. Let's be honest about why someone who's 29 years old and spent five years outside of real baseball is playing on anyone's Double-A team. First off, he's Graig Nettles' son. Which also makes him Jim Nettles' nephew! And he's an in-law of Mike Sweeney, since Jim's daughter married Sweeney. He's not a good player. He's just not. He never has been. He was in indy league baseball for about five years before the Royals picked him up to play at Wichita (AA) last season. The O's grabbed him because they have no hitting prospects. He was once a 53rd round pick of the Blue Jays, but went pro when taken in the 47th round for the big money by the Yankees, who were probably just doing Graig a solid. Not a nice bunch of stuff to say, I don't suppose, but it's not my job to make excuses for why Jeff Nettles is the starting third baseman for the Bowie Baysox.

Luis Montanez is 26 and a massive flameout with whom you may already be familiar if you're a Cubs fan. He was taken third overall in the 2000 draft and never did anything. He never even had an encouraging season, really. I mean, I suppose you could say him tearing up the Midwest League was pretty neat, if you don't take into account that he was 23 by then and was expected to already be in the majors. It's been a tough career for him. Sometimes, I wonder what it is that makes a guy like Montanez or Nettles keep soldiering on. Love of the game is one thing, but jeez. It reminds me of the line from Rudy, when one of the assistant coaches bluntly addresses the walk -on hopefuls: "Now, if any of you has any dreams of one day running out of that tunnel with your gold helmet shining in the sun, you'd best leave them right here."

Reimold is starting to hit a little, thank the heavens. He remains our second-best position prospect. Expect nothing from the rest of these guys. Like the Tides, the Baysox are struggling with hitting, although it's nice to see Jonathan Tucker getting on base the way he is. I like him for no particular reason. Just do.

Tillman is still a diaper dandy, more or less, so his control issues are (1) not a big deal and (2) pretty much totally expected. Spoone's are a little more troubling.

But the other three rotation regulars have been chewing up the Eastern League. Waters should be -- he's 27 years old. Berken's 25 and is sort of at "now or never" himself. Hernandez was regarded by Sickels and Baseball Prospectus as a sleeper dude, so him I'm actually getting a little excited about, despite the iffy WHIP. I mean look at that K-rate -- 13.32 K/9. That's nasty. Even if he never masters a whole repertoire, that kind of power arm could make him millions as a reliever.

But if it's ratios you want to focus on, jeez, take a gander at Berken's absurd K-to-BB. 15-to-1? The Baysox bullpen deserves just as much flak for the team's struggles as the flaccid lineup does, too. Mickolio, Miller and Romero are doing fine, but the rest of them are gasoline men.

Norfolk 7, Rochester 2

Luis Terrero was 3-for-4 and Mike Costanzo had three RBI, leading the Norfolk offense over Rochester. But the star of the game was on the mound, as Garrett Olson went six shutout innings with seven strikeouts and no walks, allowing just four hits.

Olson struggled with his command in his first outing, walking six over four innings, but breezed past the Red Wings, throwing 55 of his 86 pitches for strikes. Roberto Novoa allowed both Rochester runs, giving up a homer to Brian Buscher.

Only Terrero had a multi-hit game for the Tides (4-3), but everyone in the starting lineup had a base knock besides shortstop Travis Brown, who scored when he reached on one of Rochester's four errors. Norfolk was up 6-0 after just two innings and cruised to the win.

Bowie 3, Reading 2

After starting out with five straight losses for the '07 season, the Baysox have bounced back with two straight wins. Jeff Nettles and Carlos Rojas had two hits apiece, and Choryne Spoone picked up the win. Spoone pitched 5 1/3 innings, allowing just one run on five hits with three walks and five strikeouts. Kam Mickolio pitched two scoreless, one-hit innings, and Julio Manon got the save with an inning and two-thirds of work, walking two and striking out four.

Ryan Finan had a home run for Bowie. Nolan Reimold was 0-for-3 with a walk, lowering his average to .148 on the young season. He's just 4-for-27 overall, and they're all singles. He has struck out eight times in seven games, walking four times. It's been a tough start for Reimold, to say the least.

Frederick 9, Kinston 8

Wieters Watch! 1-for-1 with a walk, a double and a run scored. And he left in the bottom of the fourth! Oh no! Calm down. Just a little game. Wieters isn't hurt -- he was ejected, along with manager Tommy Thompson.

Jake Arrieta's second start with the Keys didn't go as well as his first, as he struggled with his command through two and two-thirds, walking four and allowing four earned. He struck out two. Kyle Schmidt got the win in relief with this impressive line: 3 1/3 IP, 6 H, 4 ER. Chad Thall and Jason Burch held it down in the late innings, with Burch notching his third save.

Todd Davison homered for the Keys, and Brandon Snyder went 3-for-5 with two RBI. Chris Vinyard had a Mickey Tettleton game, sans home run, going 0-for-3 with two walks and three whiffs. Second sacker Miguel Abreu was 3-for-4 with two RBI.

Delmarva 4, Lake County 1 (10 innings)

Anthony Martinez homered and Tyler Henson was 2-for-5 with an RBI as Delmarva rounds out a perfect 4-0 day in the O's system. The Shorebirds rallied for three runs in the top of the tenth to secure victory.

My new favorite player, Cole McCurry, went five shutout innings with three strikeouts. Zach Clark threw four innings of relief and got the win, and Mick Mattaliano picked up the save.

Rochester 4, Norfolk 1

Our old Triple-A affiliate shut down our newest Triple-A affiliate, as the Red Wings got two hits apiece from Garrett Jones, Randy Ruiz and Brian Buscher and five and two-thirds shutout innings from starter Kevin Mulvey en route to victory. Former Oriole Jon Knott went 0-for-3 with a walk and two strikeouts for Rochester.

Jim Johnson went four innings to take the loss, allowing one earned on two hits with a walk and two strikeouts. Relievers Craig Anderson (2 2/3, 3 H, 2 ER, 4 K) and Lance Cormier (2 1/3, 4 H, 1 ER, BB, 3 K) were both hit pretty hard. The Tides didn't get on the board until it was 3-0 Rochester, when nine-hitter Mike McCoy drove in catcher Chris Heintz. The Tides are now 2-3.

Reading 6, Bowie 3 (10 innings)

The Baysox extended their season-starting winless streak to five games with a 6-3 loss to Reading, giving up three runs in the top of the tenth inning after having rallied to tie it in the bottom of the seventh.

Veteran catcher Ben Davis went 2-for-5, but the runs came from the bottom of the order. Eight-hitter Jonathan Tucker was 1-for-3 with a walk and two runs scored, and Kennard Jones in the nine spot scored the other Bowie run on a 1-for-3 day. Jones also had an RBI, and the other two steaks came from Mike Rodriguez (hitting .381) and Blake Davis at the top of the lineup. Nolan Reimold was 1-for-5 with two whiffs.

On the mound, Chris Tillman made his first Junior Oriole start, and he struggled. Tillman was yanked after two innings work, allowing two earned on four hits with three walks and three strikeouts. Jim Miller threw three innings of relief, and Kam Mickolio and Rommie Lewis, Jr., threw two each. Old Man Manon was the goat in the tenth, giving up the three runs on two hits and a walk.

Frederick and Delmarva both had the day off.

John Sickels of Minor League Ball is one of the foremost experts on prospects today. Yearly, he publishes The Baseball Prospect Book, which is a wonderful resource for those with any interest in the subject whatsoever. If you wish to order the book -- and I sincerely do recommend it -- you can do so at JohnSickels.net.

I got the chance to send John some questions about the O's farm system recently, and he was kind enough to share his time and insight. While I'm "fairly well-informed," John for sure knows his stuff. Listen to him before you listen to me.

Camden Chat: How much has the Orioles system really improved since the dark days under Syd Thrift's watch? Has it really been much of a dramatic turnaround, or does it just seem like that because they were so incredibly bad?

John Sickels: Well it’s always a matter of perspective. I’d rate the Orioles system as slightly above average now, though not elite. There is more depth than there used to be, and a few guys who could be impact players. I think it is a legitimate turnaround.

Camden Chat: Scott Moore and Mike Costanzo seem to be essentially the exact same player. Is there really any difference in the two? Does one project as better than the other?

John Sickels: They are pretty similar, born one month apart. Both have power from the left side of course. Costanzo will draw more walks, but Moore has a bit more athleticism and is more versatile defensively, easier to fit on the roster in a reserve role. I gave them both Grade C+ ratings in the book, so yeah, they are very close.

Camden Chat: Nolan Reimold's injuries have been his burden during his rise through the system. At 24, is he behind what would have originally been considered on schedule, or is he still cutting a good pace?

John Sickels: Well he is behind, but much of that is because of the injury. Given how well he hit early last year in Double-A, he would probably have seen Triple-A and perhaps the majors at some point last year if he had not gotten injured. I don’t think it is critical yet, but he needs to have a good season this year.

Camden Chat: Does Brandon Snyder have a real major league future at first base?

John Sickels: I’m not sure he’s going to have quite enough home run power to be a starting first baseman in the majors. He’s just 21 and has time to improve that, of course. It’s much too early to conclude he won’t make it. But certainly the hill is steeper as a first baseman.

Camden Chat: How soon are we going to see Matt Wieters in Baltimore, and would you rank him among the five best position prospects in baseball?

John Sickels: I imagine you will see Wieters late this year or by mid-season 2009 at the latest. He’s really good, the hype is for real. I have him at Number Seven on the hitting prospect list, but he could be Number One or Number Two a year from now once he establishes himself and other guys ahead of him graduate.

Camden Chat: Were the O's smart to go so far over slot to draft and sign Jake Arrieta (pictured)?

John Sickels: They got a first-round talent in the fifth round, so yeah I think it was a good idea. His command issues at TCU should be fixable according to what I’ve heard. I think it was a gamble worth taking.

Camden Chat: He's still very young, but how much does Brandon Erbe's disastrous 2007 at Frederick hurt his stock?

John Sickels: Well it certainly doesn’t help. His mechanics fell apart last year but supposedly he put them back together in instructional league. Assuming that is true, and that there is no underlying health problem that we don’t know about, he has a good shot at rebounding. We will see. I lowered him from Grade B+ in the 2007 book to Grade C+ in 2008, though I still like his long-term potential, assuming good health.

Camden Chat: Could Hayden Penn be another John Maine? That is, a guy that is at one point regarded as the O's best pitching prospect, then kind of gets lost in the shuffle?

John Sickels: I can see that, yes, though the parallel is inexact as I think their styles of pitching are rather different and the things that have held Penn back are different than the things that held Maine back.

Camden Chat: How high is Chris Tillman's ceiling? Some are regarding him as the potential gem of the Bedard trade.

John Sickels: I really like what Tillman did last year. The Mariners took a huge and reckless gamble in promoting him to the California League so quickly last year, but after a rough start he adjusted and made the decision look good in retrospect. I still think it was a stupid decision, putting a 19 year old kid with 8 Class A starts under his belt in High Desert, but Tillman made it work and he deserves all the credit for that. If he stays healthy and maintains his command, he can be a number two starter.

Camden Chat: Who looks like the better prospect -- Kam Mickolio or Tony Butler?

John Sickels: Mickolio will get to the majors first, but Butler is the better long-term prospect. He was extremely impressive late in the season in the Midwest League, showing a good fastball and a terrific changeup. He’s also extremely bright and motivated to succeed. Like Tillman, if he stays healthy he should be a very impressive pitcher, granted “if he stays healthy” is always the question with these young guys.

Camden Chat: Thanks, John. Your time and knowledge is greatly appreciated.

John Sickels: Thanks! I appreciate the opportunity. 

Don't forget to visit Minor League Ball for daily prospect talk that is second to none.

Chris Tillman once had his picture taken with Cal Ripken, Jr., when he was an Aflac All-American back in his high school days. We present to you the evidence of this meeting between the former Oriole great and a potential future Oriole great.

The Bedard trade's effect is being felt throughout the system already. Down at Delmarva, you have big lefty Tony Butler. On the major league level, Adam Jones is getting great receptions at Camden Yards and George Sherrill is a nerve-wracking 1-for-1 in save opportunities. And at Bowie, Tillman and Kam Mickolio will be key pieces of another promising young pitching staff. Mickolio will work out of the pen.

I'm not saying all of these guys are going to pan out. Hell, maybe none of them do. But when's the last time you could say that the Orioles had legit prospects on the pitching staffs at AAA, AA, High-A and Low-A? Fans of other teams may take this for granted. I do not.

To get away from the prospects for a moment, the Orioles went out and got 35-year old Julio Manon back for the Bowie bullpen, which seems a strange move. But you do have to fill out the rosters with someone, and Manon probably knows who he is at this point -- a career minor leaguer. Plus, pitching effectively in the minors has never been an issue for him. So long as we don't see him in Baltimore again, who cares?

I also really like to look over the gaps in Manon's career. 1996 was a lost year. He didn't play in 2004 and 2005, and then the Orioles rescued him in '06. He dominated in 50 appearances at Ottawa and then didn't in 22 games for the Birds. Last year he pitched at AAA for Oakland and Cincinnati. Spending two seasons farming for the O's, A's and Reds would pretty awesome if this was the 1970s.

The ace of the staff, though, is not the 20-year old Tillman, who probably has the highest ceiling of all the Baysox. That distinction instead falls to 22-year old Chorye Spoone, who will start the opener. The 6'1", 215-pound righty is a native of Pasadena, MD, was the most improved prospect in the O's system in 2007. His walks were way down (5.58 to 3.97 per nine), his strikeouts were up (6.28 to 7.88 per nine), and he gave up less hits (8.23 to 6.39 per nine). And we're talking about a jump, too, as he went from Low-A Delmarva to High-A Frederick. He's ready for Bowie, and if all goes really well, he could be up at Norfolk by the summer's end.

The other starter to watch for is David Hernandez, another righty who, as has been said before, is in sort of a low-risk, high-reward position. He's a couple tweaks away from maybe being really good. Or he won't make them, and he won't be. If he doesn't, it's not a huge loss.

Among the hitters, the clear stud is Nolan Reimold, who just needs to stay healthy for the love of God. He's become a good outfielder, he can hit the hell out of the ball, and he actually has some plate discipline. With all respect to Luke Scott, Luke's just a placeholder. Reimold is the left fielder of the future, and a Reimold-Jones-Markakis outfield could anchor the Oriole lineup for years.

Joining him in the outfield is Kennard Jones, a former Indiana Hoosier and Beltsville, MD, native who got as far as AAA in the Padres system. He played at Frederick last year. He's got no power, decent plate discipline, speed, and no idea how to use it. He's the Sebastien Boucher of Bowie. Non-prospects Michael Rodriguez and Luis Montanez will also see time in the outfield.

First baseman Ryan Finan may be the jewel of the infield, which isn't saying a whole lot. Finan hit .284/.386/.432 at Frederick last year. A spike in power would improve his prospects a whole lot, but he's just not a power hitter. Even Mark Grace slugged .518 in the minors.

Shortstop Blake Davis was overmatched in 35 games with the Baysox last season (.209/.264/.270) but fared OK at Frederick (.291/.362/.409). Like Finan, he's a maybe, but a probably not. The Cal State Fullerton product's future may be as a utility guy if he can start hitting Double-A pitching.

And then there's Michael Garciaparra, a career .261/.355/.342 hitter in the minors. He's not his brother, to say the least.

Former (very former) Padres prospect Ben Davis will be the starting catcher. He's just another guy that didn't pan out. But he's in a place where he can be useful. The 31-year old Davis has 486 major league games under his belt, and could be very helpful in guiding Spoone, Tillman, Hernandez and the rest of the young pitchers. Think Crash Davis, but without the bat.

Like all the other levels of the O's system now, there's real young talent down at Bowie, and the chance to see some guys that are going to be good major league players.

One of the things I want to try to do with Camden Chat this season is focus more on what's happening down on the farm. All things considered, that's a huge part of the story of the Baltimore Orioles these days, which is a great, great thing. 

In the past, there just hasn't been a whole lot to talk about. Now, maybe there is.

I don't claim to be a great prospects brain or anything like that -- this is a list composed simply because I like making lists, I like prospect talk, and I can read stat sheets and scouting reports the same as any of you can. If you want to get better in-depth prospect analysis, I highly recommend, as always, John Sickels' Minor League Ball or Baseball Prospectus, among many others.

First off, there's one guy I left off that makes every O's list, and that's Jim Hoey. There is not a bigger non-believer in Hoey than me, probably. I firmly admit this, and you're free to think I'm an idiot. He's at least fairly well regarded by almost everyone else. Anyone who's seen Hoey pitch knows that he's got a big fastball that is straight as an arrow and nothing else. He's the new Matt Anderson. I'd be pleased as punch if Hoey proved me wrong, but I don't think that's happening.

Without any further ado, let's get talking about the kids that'll be spending most of their days in Norfolk, Bowie, Frederick, or Delmarva, plus a couple of cats that are already on the O's but haven't quite passed out of prospectdom just yet.

19. Randor Bierd, RHP

Nice Rule 5 pickup from the Tigers, he put up a 5-to-1 K-to-BB ratio at Double-A Erie last season and is just 24. Bierd and I share the same birthday, too, which I just now found out -- he's exactly two years younger than I am. So happy belated, Randor, and congrats on making the team! Enjoy your sharp new suit.

18. Matt Albers, RHP

Already in the show last season with the Astros, he still came into 2008 more a prospect than anything else. He looked good in his O's debut on Opening Day, relieving a spent Jeremy Guthrie and at least holding down the fort at a 6-2 disadvantage. He went 4-11, 5.86/1.60 with Houston in 110 2/3 innings pitched in 2007. He'll wind up in the O's rotation before too long if Brian Burres lives up to his reputation.

17. Scott Moore/Mike Costanzo, 3B

They are the exact same player.

Moore was born on November 17, 1983; Costanzo was born on September 9, 1983.
Moore's career minor league line is .260/.348/.449. Costanzo's is .266/.364/.456.
Moore is 6'2"; Costanzo is 6'3".
Both bat left, throw right.
Both were willing to try any position necessary this spring. Costanzo gave catching a shot, while Moore was all over the place.

Moore was a nice pickup from the Cubs in the Trax trade, and we got Costanzo as part of the Tejada package, seemingly a throw-in more than anything else.

I have no idea how any system can have both of these players, but the Orioles have done it. The difference now is that Costanzo is a Norfolk Tide, while Moore is with the big club. We will also owe Scott Moore a debt of gratitude for being the player that pushed Jay Gibbons into the land of in-season free agency.