Bottom line on Palmeiro

by Scott Christ on Aug 3, 2005 1:17 PM EDT in News & Rumors

This from Will Carroll over at Baseball Prospectus (free through today, take advantage):

This is the same steroid that Jose Canseco said he used on Palmeiro in his book. There are few products that could cause a cross-indication of Winstrol in the system, putting more of a burden on Palmeiro's defense that he doesn't know how it got into his system. Sources tell me that further developments in the case should come public in the next 48 hours.

There is, basically, no chance that Palmeiro is telling the truth if he did indeed test positive for Winstrol (stanozolol). As for how it leaked: What doesn't leak anymore? If anyone cared exactly what Jorge Piedra took, that would be a bigger deal, too, and someone would have leaked that. Palmeiro is a big story. It was going to get out.

I think we all like Palmeiro to one degree or another. And I don't like to make it sound personal, but, Palmeiro's lying.

Of course I hope I'm wrong, I hope it's all a big confusion and a screw-up and everyone comes out of it apologizing to Palmeiro. But to think that's going to happen would be naive. I don't suppose it's entirely hopeless, though. I would give it about a 0.7% chance.

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As I said in an earlier thread.....

Just to save the organization from any further embarrassment, and to try and make amends with the few fans he may have left around here...
He needs to retire, effective immediately
He needs to apologize to baseball, his team mates, his fans, and to his family for putting them thru this
He needs to announce that he is not going to consider himself eligible for the Hall of Fame
That may just preserve a tad of dignity to what is a dramatically spiraling downward situation.

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Aug 3, 2005 1:31 PM EDT reply actions

A little harsh

Palmerio, needs to do what he thinks is best, and he does not reflect on the club.
This losing streak, complete collapse, etc. is a reflection and every member of the PROFESSIONAL baseball team orioles should appologize.

by DR common on Aug 3, 2005 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions

I may be harsh....

But every time I hear " Baltimore Orioles First Baseman Rafael Palmiero...." on the radio, or see it on TV, or on the web...I get this strange twitch in my eye..kind of a Dr Evil type thing.

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Aug 3, 2005 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree on the harsh part

If every player who has every taken a steriod was forced to retire, then we would put a call for replacement players. The important thing is that we have testing in place and sanctions for violators.

by birdman on Aug 3, 2005 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions

This references your thread below, but...

...please, please, please don't say "Things can't get any worse."

I mean, Batgirl said that, and then the Twins lost 6 in a row and Torii Hunter broke his ankle.

Seriously. Bad mojo shit. knocks on wood

Fake Orioles News: A Blog

by CarrieIC on Aug 3, 2005 1:38 PM EDT reply actions

and NOBODY mention the Irsays

ever again.

by drj on Aug 3, 2005 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions

Okay, Sorry man.

I get it.
PA - Bad
RI- Worse than BAD

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Aug 3, 2005 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Worse than Bad

Just as I am a long time O fan, Till this day I will pull for who ever is playing the colts to win. It goes very deep...and Peter is placing himself in that deepness.

by DR common on Aug 3, 2005 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Me also...

I went to my first trip to the "outdoor insane asylum" that was once on 33rd st at the tender age of 6...In 1964. My folks had season tix every yr until the moving vans came in the middle of a snowy night.
I love it when the Indies lose every time to the Patriots. I hate Peyton Manning, Edgirin James, and that smartass kicker. For a team to wear the blue and white and not play in my home town is sacrilige.
I apologize again for bringing up the name of that which shall never be spoken again.

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Aug 3, 2005 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions

i don't get it

all you people were happy enough to steal another great football city's team and start rooting for them as if they were your team and had been for 50 years.

by hugo @ Camden Chat on Aug 3, 2005 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions

I guess the only thing to say is....

We all have our Art Modell's, don't we.

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Aug 3, 2005 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions

No

Became a washington fan, when the colts left. While I keep up with the Ravens, they are not my NFL team.

by DR common on Aug 3, 2005 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions

So now you have

PA and Daniel Snyder to cheer for. My sympathies. I wonder which franchise will be the first to win a championship?

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Aug 3, 2005 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions

YEA!

Good thing I don't live and die with my favorite teams. Death would have come a long time ago.
But Always an O's and skins fan...luckily been stuck in the south for the last 5 years, and don't have to hear constant news about both teams.

by DR common on Aug 3, 2005 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions

you could always read the sun...

Every day online for free.

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Aug 3, 2005 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Trust me...

its a terrible predicament. Lifelong O's and Skins fan. Ever since 1992, it has just been one stomach punch after the other. Now we are saddled with two incompetent owners. I'll still take the Danny though, at least he tries to win, even though he is really, really bad at it. Angelos just likes mucking things up for the sake of mucking them up.

My friends and I were thinking about starting a blog like the ESPN Sports Guy's old blog "Boston Sports Guy" only where he used to talk about the futility of being a Boston fan, we will discuss the pain and misery of rooting for teams in the Washington, D.C. metro area. With the notable exception of the Ravens, who have a competent front office, and the D.C. United, who don't count, because its soccer, look at the DC teams: O's, Nats, Wizards (getting better, but really), Redskins, and Capitals. Just brutal.

by Eddie Eddie Eddie on Aug 3, 2005 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions

You're right...

We don't deserve this. We have supported this area's teams for years and years, and in the past 20 years what do we have to show for the millions we have pumped into the economy and their pockets?
How can these multi-millionaires who just excel in their own fields be so inept at feilding good competitive teams? I just don't get it. They should take a lesson from the Pats folks in NE. Hire good sound professional and knowedgable experts in the field, and let them do their jobs.

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Aug 3, 2005 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions

I have been saying that for 2 years..

I don't understand why the Daniel does not go up to Philly or Foxboro and tap the junior executives there and say, "hey want a shot at running a professional football team." I am sure those guys would jump at the opportunity to prove themselves.

Same goes for the O's. Why are we not raiding the Atlanta Braves' front office? We should have been hiring those guys for years.

by Eddie Eddie Eddie on Aug 3, 2005 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Now..Thats

is something I could see Peter and Daniel doing which would make sense as long as they hired and stepped back.

by DR common on Aug 3, 2005 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Me too.

Became a Skins fan, and am now dyed-in-the-wool. As far as I'm concerned, the C*lts are cursed, and will never win a SB.

I wish Snyder would pipe down, but the Skins generally have a great tradition. And I take a passing interest in the Ravens, but only passing. I'm in NYC now, so the Jets are my AFC team.

by zknower on Aug 3, 2005 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Ahhhhhhhh

The land of Kotite! Now there was one fine head football coach!

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Aug 3, 2005 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Noooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Colts left Baltimore while, growing up in York, PA, was too young to really have an attachment for them since my Dad's not a big football fan.

So, as I became interested in football, I became an Eagles fan, probably mostly since I was young and impressionable and they were the team on TV every week.

So please, I ask very respectfully that no one ever mention Rich Kotite ever again. I still wake up from nightmares screaming about his ineptness.

by BrianS on Aug 3, 2005 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Sorry,

Feel the pain, they sure can make the playoffs and then nothing.
Forget philly and Richie, take a team to the south of York, you'll feel better

by DR common on Aug 3, 2005 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions

You know...

Year after year, the Eagles rip my heart out with horrible gut-wrenching playoff losses.

I'm not saying that I didn't want to put my foot through my TV when they lost to the Bucs, and I'm not saying that I didn't want to drive my car off a bridge when they lost to the Panthers, and I'm not saying that I didn't want to drink a bottle of gasoline when they took 10 minutes between plays in the 4th quarter of a Superbowl in which the Patriots didn't play their best, either, but, at least they have a clear, consistent, well-articulated strategy.

Jeff Lurie, Joe Banner, and Andy Reid are cuthroat and ruthless at times, and it sucks how fan favorites routinely become cap casualties, but it's resulted in a team that's consistenly in the hunt, and seems to continuously rebuild itself, too.

That Tampa loss is the worst sports-related moment of my life, but I still prefer a season with that ending to 8 years of the Orioles flailing around with no direction.

I do think TO's a jackass, though.

by BrianS on Aug 3, 2005 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions

man, guys

I'm a LIONS fan

"I think there should be bad blood between all clubs." - Earl Weaver

by Scott Christ on Aug 3, 2005 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions

I was gonna stay mum

After going without a team for years, I started following the Pats about three years after I moved to MA in '91. The Ravens were something that appeared long after I left. But the stupid thing is, if they wore the blue and white with the horseshoe in '96, I'd certainly have been an instant fan due to all the childhood memories wrapped up in that insignia. Damn you XXXXX and Indianapolis - you've made me root against the horseshoe.

by drj on Aug 3, 2005 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions

If Baltimore had got an expansion team...

I probably would at least have divided loyalties, but really, they're just the Browns.

(of course, the Orioles are just the Browns, too.)

by BrianS on Aug 3, 2005 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions

And the Yankees are just the Orioles

by drj on Aug 3, 2005 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions

SF... but

I've been a 49ers fan forever... for some reason, I'm really still not sure why... but I've been thinking about my daughter who will be coming in November. I can't take her to very many 49er games so I think for my daughter's sake I must pick a new team. Now I'm not as much of a football fan as I am baseball (and I love my O's), so changing football teams won't be as difficult for me as if I were forced to give up on the O's. I'm thinking I might as well go with the Ravens, and bring her up that way, but then I also wonder about the Redskins. The Eagles are not an option as I just hate the Eagles with every ounce of my being. (of course just to spite me, she'll probably end up getting an opinion of her own-that day I dread-and pick the Eagles anyway... but I can try can't I?)

O's schedule with results

by dayzd toe on Aug 4, 2005 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Why do you hate the Eagles...

with every ounce of your being? I find that hilarious. I work in the Cecil County are that borders Delaware and Souther Chester County, PA. Just about everyone here is a HUGE Eagles fan, and when the Ravens won the SB a few years back, I had soooo much fun with them. I have a large white foam rubber football that someone gave me at a trade show 5 years ago on the bookcase in my office, and on it I wrote :

EAGLES PERENNIAL CHOKERS
NFC CHAMPIONSHIPS
2002 2003 2004
SUPER BOWL
2005

Believe me, it gets alot of reactions from the other folks around here. I love the fact that the Eagles lose the big ones. Their fans are more obnoxious than their players. The local sports report last night said there were over 7500 people up @ Lehigh yesterday to watch the first day of scrimmages...guys in their Eagles jerseys
doing their E-A-G-L-E-S cheers. I see them losing again in the big game this year...and I just hope that it'sto the Ravens!

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Aug 4, 2005 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions

I just can't

find myself rooting for anything that comes out of Dirty Philly... might as well be in Dirty Jersey... if the WS were the Yankees and The Phillies, I won't root against the phillies.

O's schedule with results

by dayzd toe on Aug 4, 2005 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions

correction

would root against the Phillies.

O's schedule with results

by dayzd toe on Aug 4, 2005 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Never

I draw the line, I WOULD ROUTE for the Phils over the Yanks, everyone and anyone. My greatest thrill is that Don Mattingly has never won a world series.

by DR common on Aug 4, 2005 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions

If you think about it....

Phillies fans are alot like O's fans, except they don't have such a pleasant past to remember. I do not like the Eagles at all, obviously, but I can sympathize with Phils fans. They spend alot of $$$ on inadequate players, or hurt players, or busted propects, or whatever else you can blow money on. Living closer to Philly than Balwmer but still living in Maryland, we used to go to a bunch of Phils games every year when they played at the vet and nosebleed seats were under $5.00.
Got to see alot of National League players that you would never see in B-more...this was way before interleague games were played. Saw Smoltz pitch his major league debut on a rainy night in April years ago, and he was lights out then.

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Aug 4, 2005 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions

a PA guy, who's never liked the Eagles

The Eagles have always had something about them that makes normal people just hate them, even when I went to school outside Philly in the 80s I still pulled for whomever was playing them to win.
Which come to think about it was one of the reasons I switched(forced at 2am one morning) from the Colts to the redskins, just to see them beat the eagles more often, playing twice a year.

by DR common on Aug 4, 2005 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions

Well I'm not a Raven's fan...

but there are about a million distinctions to be made. The Browns weren't snuck out of town in the middle of the night--the city could have met Modell's demands but chose not to. The NFL did not block Cleveland from getting an expansion club--in fact they awarded them one almost overnight, and Cleveland now has a new team called the Browns.

I doubt there would be many lingering hard feelings if the team playing in Indie was called the "Indie Ass Kickers" (or whatever), and Baltimore had gotten a new team called the Colts within a couple years.

Those years without a football team in Baltimore were a direct slap in the face by the NFL to the city. And the only way Baltimore was ever gonna get another team was through relocation.

by rebop on Aug 3, 2005 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions

I hear all your points for sure

particuarly the name issue, but try telling all that to the people in Cleveland. I lived in Cleveland for a year and Charm City for 3 and heard the exact same things come out of people's mouths about the Browns and the Colts. Plus, their team has never recovered from the move, y'alls eventually did.

not that i'm advocating rooting for the Redskins. i shudder at the very thought.

by hugo @ Camden Chat on Aug 3, 2005 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm not saying...

that I don't feel bad for the Cleveland fans--I do. But I also don't blame Baltimore area fans for embracing the Ravens.

Baltimore was without an NFL team for 13 years and much of that time it looked like Baltimore would never see another team--heck the city even embraced a CFL team. By contrast, Cleveland was without a team for 4 years, but it was all but a forgone conclusion they would get a new team immediately. Compared to Baltimore the suffering of Cleveland fans was small.

by rebop on Aug 3, 2005 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Close

But my first game when I was 6 was in 1968, although no season tickets for the family, but the family friends had'em

by DR common on Aug 3, 2005 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions

My favorite memory...twisted as I am...

was the Men's rooms after the first qusrter. Man, that wa sone rought crowd. Land of Pleasant living.... not @ 2:45pm on a Sunday in the fall.

"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Aug 3, 2005 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Whew

Thanks man. My heart is still calming down. ;-)

by drj on Aug 3, 2005 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions

NYT leak

Whoever leaked the information is most likely a credible source in MLB. After the whole Judith Miller fiasco, the Times is most likely extremely vigilant about anonymous sources. What I can't figure out is the leaker's agenda. Who stands to benefit from leaking such information?

by birdman on Aug 3, 2005 2:25 PM EDT reply actions