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The 40 Greatest Orioles of All-Time - No. 13 - Rafael Palmeiro

13. Rafael Palmeiro, 1B (1994-1998, 2004-2005)

All-Star: 1998
Gold Glove: 1997, 1998
Silver Slugger: 1998

Well, you knew it was coming.

I had a lot of trouble deciding on how to rank Palmeiro. Frankly, past the top ten I wasn't too worried about placement, except in Palmeiro's case. This is a guy who has been better than the league offensively every single year of his career (besides 1986, when he had 78 plate appearances). He had four really good seasons for the Orioles in his first run, one pretty good season, and then came back years later to have a couple that were not up to his standards, but he was still contributing as much as you can expect out of a 40-year old first baseman.

Rafael Palmeiro has probably retired. He seems to want to just fade and let everything be, which is, at this point, probably his best idea. Yes, he tested positive for steroids in 2005. It happened, we've discussed it at great length, and I really don't want this to be about that. He hit 569 home runs, had 3020 hits, and is a career .288/.371/.515 hitter. Everything else aside, Rafael Palmeiro could hit.

Palmeiro (born September 24, 1964 in Havana, Cuba) was drafted in the first round of the 1985 amateur draft by the Cubs, with the 22nd pick overall, out of Mississippi State. Palmeiro was an outfielder in college, and came to the majors as an outfielder as well. In 1986, he played in 22 games for the Cubs, then had an 84-game trial run in 1987, hitting .276/.336/.543 with 14 homers and 15 doubles. He became a regular in '88, the same year that Mark Grace came up with the Cubs. The two had very similar seasons, Palmeiro playing the outfield with Grace at first. Grace hit .296/.371/.403 with seven homers and Palmeiro hit .307/.349/.436 with eight homers. He also stole 12 bases and made the All-Star team.

Grace went on to have a really good career and is one of my favorite players, but you could probably consider the Cubs keeping Grace and trading Palmeiro to the Rangers for nothing but Mitch Williams after the 1988 season to be a mistake. With the Rangers, Palmeiro moved to first base, and hit .275/.354/.374 with eight homers and 64 RBI. People were beginning to consider him a lightweight at the plate. In 1990, he got some of the power he had shown in '87 back, hitting .319/.361/.468 with 35 doubles, six triples and 14 homers, driving in 89 runs. That was the last time until 2005 that Palmeiro would hit under 20 home runs.

He hit 26 in '91 and 22 in '92, then hit 37 and drove in 100 runs for the first time in 1993. After the '93 season, the Rangers signed Will Clark (Palmeiro's teammate at Mississippi State), and Palmeiro shipped out to Baltimore. In the strike-shortened '94 season, he hit .319/.392/.550 with 23 homers. In 143 games in 1995, he hit .310/.380/.583 with 39 home runs. He hit 39 more in 1996, with 142 RBI, and helped guide the Orioles to the playoffs as the American League wild card. In 1997, 38 more homers, and the Orioles won the division.

Palmeiro topped the 40-homer mark for the first time in 1998 at age 33, hitting 43 home runs with 121 RBI. The Orioles let Palmeiro walk via free agency, signing Will Clark to replace him. Palmeiro hit .324/.420/.630 with 47 home runs and 148 RBI in 1999, and won the stupidest Gold Glove in recent memory, having played all of 28 games at first base. Clark was injured a lot.

Palmeiro from 2000 through 2003 still hit a ton of home runs, though he saw his averages fall off some. He notched 39 homers in 2000, 47 in 2001, 43 in 2002 and 38 in 2003. At age 39, he came back to Baltimore and hit 23 home runs, then re-signed for 2005, when he hit 18 more and joined the 3,000-hit club. We all know the rest of that story.

Now the trouble I had with where to put Palmeiro had nothing to do with his numbers or his play. Palmeiro belongs up here, and probably higher, for his play. So it all really depends on how serious you take Palmeiro's scandal. On the one hand, there are a lot of guys cheating that will soon get caught, and even more that have cheated and never got caught or never will be caught. On the other hand, Palmeiro kind of disgraced the team and even the sport. It wouldn't have been so bad without all the finger wagging at Congress, but to follow that up with a positive test, and then attempt to pass the blame off onto your teammate, all the while acting like a 15-year old that really, seriously, does not have any idea what happened to his dad's beer, is a smidge difficult to respect in any way.

I don't know where anyone else would put Palmeiro. I do believe that considering everything, he belongs somewhere on this list. He was a great player and gave us many, many reasons to cheer him over the years. The end isn't the whole story, it's just the freshest part.

FRANCHISE RANKINGS
2nd, Slugging Percentage (.520)
4th, OPS (.886)
8th, Total Bases (1958)
9th, Doubles (204)
5th, Home Runs (223)
7th, RBI (701)
8th, Adjusted OPS+ (127)
7th, Runs Created (720)
8th, Extra Base Hits (434)
8th, Bases On Balls (486)

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raffy
Before the roids incident, he was a class act and I was proud to call him an Oriole. But the past few months have tainted my view of him forever and nothing can change that.

Do you guys think he belongs in the hall. I mean, people were debating this even before he tested positive. So his chances don't look so good now.

by dtran2k3 on Mar 10, 2006 11:39 AM EST   0 recs

Hall of Fame
If Pete Rose is kept out of the HOF for gambling as a coach, I don't think there's any way in hell that someone caught doping should and would get in. Obviously Raffy's not the only one and no one will ever know the extent of his steroid use, but if there's proof of a player doping, they should not get in. Same goes for Bonds. MLB needs to make an example out of these guys, and I think they will.

By the way, Raffy's summary was very well written, SC.

by BleedingOrange on Mar 10, 2006 11:51 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

I think he should be in...
Personally I think he should still be in the HOF.  Other players have been caught cheating and have been put in the Hall, so I think the precedent has been set.

There is a huge difference between gambling on the game and taking steroids in my opinion.  Gambling on the game is comparable to fixing the game; which is much more a severe offense against the game than violating the rules in order to achieve a competitive advantage.  In order for the league to exist as a legitimate sport we must have some assurance that all involved are always playing to win, and that there is not a hidden external benefit on an individual level to not play to win.  Gambling on the game destroys that assurance; and it seems that if we let that go then we have little more than the WWF with grass.

by BirdFanInPhilly on Mar 10, 2006 2:43 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Hall worthy
Simply put that if he doesn't get in, than a good amount of players throughout the 80's to today shouldn't. I doubt they'll deny Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa so why deny Raffy? The only thing he's truely guilty of is being a dumb-ass and getting caught.

by O face on Mar 10, 2006 11:44 AM EST   0 recs

Being a dumbass...
...and getting caught is a pretty big offense though on this kind of level.  It's the difference between Richard Nixon and, well, most every other President who never got caught.  It's the difference between Ken Lay and all the other sleazy major CEO's out there who aren't household names because they fly under the radar.

The "all a part of the game" defense doesn't work for me on Raffy.  Lying and corruption are part of the game of politics and big business...and those that get snagged lose the game.  Same goes for Raffy.  He blew it.  And why he continued to do it after the theatrical congressional appearance and the implementation of the testing program borders on the pathological. It's also a goddamn shame.  

by Jonnypops on Mar 10, 2006 12:23 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

I'm not so sure...
that Bonds, Sosa and especially McGwire are HOF shoo-ins either. Let's wait and see what happens over the next several years.

by rebop on Mar 10, 2006 12:33 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

RE: What about Gaylord Perry?
Do you think he belongs in the hall?  I guess we all have different views on "what's worse" so its probably not worth while to even go down that road, but I will anyway.  Personally, I think bringing and using a foreign substance on the field is a worse form of cheating than using steroids.  I know I'm probably in the minority with that, but so be it.  At least steroid users are actually achieving those results themselves, even if their bodies have been altered by illegal means.  

by BirdFanInPhilly on Mar 10, 2006 2:52 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Sort of...
I'm splitting hairs here, maybe, but I sort of think of corking bat or scuffing balls, while definately cheating, as part of the game.  It's part of the game to check the pitcher's glove for pine tar, or for the umps to ask for Albert Belle's corked bats.  But I guess 'roids are part of the game, too.

Steroids, HGH, etc...I don't know where to draw the line because while Palmeiro got caught and Sosa, McGwire, and Bonds are all but caught, it's a pretty safe bet that there's a lot of MLB players using banned substances.  Maybe not as much as Canseco says, but probably higher than Selig wants us to believe.

McGwire, we're pretty sure used steroids.  Can we be sure Ripken didn't?  

I don't mean to suggest that Ripken used steroids, or that I've even heard that rumor because I haven't (He's just first guy I thought of who retired the same year as Big Mac), but I think the Hall of Fame is going to have to take a "look at it in the context of the era because we no longer can tell who's using illegal substances and who isn't" sort of approach.

So, by this though, I'd say Palmeiro, McGwire and Bonds (certainly) get in.

But, I think the voters, and later the Veterans committee are going to take a really hard line with the guys who DID get caught, and even though it may not be fair in the context of the era they played in, I can't say I'd disagree with that stance.

Orioles' Rebuilding Plan: Phase 1: Steal Underwear. Phase 3: Win the World Series.

by BrianS on Mar 10, 2006 3:29 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

All in all
I agree with all of things in this forum. I don't like cheating as much as the next guy be it corking, scuffing, steriods......anything.  However if the authorities know something is going on and doesn't do anything about it then, to me, that says to go ahead and do it. Which is why so many people did and still probably do. My opinion is that a good amount of players used steriods back in the 70's to present day. Lyle Alzado was preaching about it in the mid-eighties if anyone remebers him and I while don't believe Ripken did though I certainly wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibilty.
 

by O face on Mar 15, 2006 1:15 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

SC
You are doing a fabulous job. What a treat camdenchat is.

by janfrel on Mar 10, 2006 1:16 PM EST   0 recs

Without making steroids the main thrust ...
...of my comments.  This is the Oriole I most love to love, hate, love, and hate again.

When he was a young Cub and Ranger, Raffy was one of my favorite players. He came up as a potential Wade Boggs type and turned into a basher (yeah, I know).

I was thrilled when he came here and thrilled when he put up numbers year-in, year-out.

Then he left with a lot of whining about respect.  Some say he had actually accepted the Orioles' belated big offer before taking it to Arlington and begging for a similar but tax free deal from them.  I was outraged.  I placed him in my file right after "ALOMAR, Robbie" and moved on.

He came back here with a really streaky 2004 and I felt a little sorry for him.  He played much better in 2005 and I actually started to root for him again.

We all know how the story ends.

The irony here is that this guy with the sweet swing and solid glove always seemed a little perturbed about his lack of celebrity.  Well, he's a celebrity now.

14th is about right.

by howie14 on Mar 10, 2006 3:34 PM EST   0 recs

Oh Rafyy...
SC, another brilliant summation. This guy had one of the sweetest swings ever in the Orange and Black, and there was no doubt in my mind that he had Cooperstown numbers, but now I may back off and see how history treats him, Sammy, McGwire, etc.
No doubt about it, the guy could hit, and the porn moustache made him almost into the matinee' idol status as a ball player. My wife loved him, as did my mom, and there was no one better in the mid to late 90's at getting the hits when they were needed.
Such a shame that it had to end this way, on our team, with the Clintonesque finger wagging and all, but he will forever be remembered by my family a truly good, and almost great, baseball player.
"What's my secret for winning? That's easy. Pitching, defense, and three run homers" Earl Weaver

by elktonfan on Mar 10, 2006 3:47 PM EST   0 recs

Jerk
My last Palmeiro memory with the O's was during that period where he'd come back from suspension and played poorly and was on that indefinite leave they had him take.  They must have been playing in Texas, because he showed up to the game, sitting in an empty block of box seats, wearing mirrored sunglasses and talking on his cell phone.  The cameras went to him a lot.  He never got off the phone.  There was something pitiful about it.  

The Clinton parallels are apt, in that the impressive things he did will be forever replaced in many minds with the scandal that brought him down.  Personally, I think he was a consistently very good Oriole.  Never one of my favorites because his personality was not so winning, but he was this team's best middle-of-the-order hitter for a good span of time.  But he really acted like a scumbag, too.  The steroids bother me a lot less than the finger wagging and finger pointing.  He tried to sell out Miguel Tejada.  That's unforgiveable.  

Eh.  I'll put it this way: I still like Woody Allen's movies...

by Stanicek on Mar 10, 2006 5:29 PM EST   0 recs

I dont like anything about Woody
not one damn thing. I loved Raffy before the steroids. I dont think Raffy or anyone who took steriods should be in any record books or HOF or anything, THEY CHEATED!
"We're so bad right now that for us back-to-back home runs means one today and another one tomorrow" Earl Weaver

by Larry Bigbie3 on Mar 10, 2006 5:48 PM EST   0 recs

Oh come on...
...Woody Allen has made some amazing movies.  The guy is obviously a mess as a person but he's a great artist.  Manhattan, Annie Hall, Crimes & Misdemeanors, Hannah and Her Sisters, Broadway Danny Rose, Sleeper...the list goes on and on.  

by Jonnypops on Mar 11, 2006 10:39 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

OK, OK
but he creeps me out.
"We're so bad right now that for us back-to-back home runs means one today and another one tomorrow" Earl Weaver

by Larry Bigbie3 on Mar 12, 2006 12:26 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

I'm still sick of the guy
I don't recall if I rescinded my 2005 ban on speaking about Palmeiro and steroids. I'll assume not and just say he was at least a noteworthy Oriole.
"Mike will be absolutely in charge." Peter Angelos

by drj on Mar 10, 2006 10:15 PM EST   0 recs

Disagree
I've loved your compiliation list of the 40 greatest O's so far, but this is the first one I completely disagree with.

I'm of the school of thought that when you cheat, you eliminate yourself from the contest. I don't care how great he was, he's a cheater and I hate him.

He gave up his right to be considered on a list like this when he decided to break the rules.

by Mike Boehm on Mar 11, 2006 8:08 PM EST   0 recs

Raffy
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
Hall of Fame stats,one of the best orioles
ever & will be forever remembered for his
lying to Congress.After the steroid incident
everything good he ever did in the game will
be tainted.The shame of it is Raffy you were
loved by the fans.

by hagersbush on Mar 19, 2006 2:58 PM EST   0 recs

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